Guild Wars 2

Needless to say it was really dissapointing to fight when one of my friend started twitching to completely negate my auto attacks.

Rangers got a buff to stop this from happening, and thieves short bow doesn’t have this issue.

Isn’t it time for some scepter love?
If the link doesn’t work just copy paste it on your browser

Stop using scepters in pvp. Or move into melee range.

Stop using scepters in pvp. Or move into melee range.

Sure, just ignore the broken weapon and move on <.< Some of us would like to be able to actually do anything useful at range.

The mesmer scepter got homing projectiles, i’d say our scepter deserves the same.

Quarktastic.1027:

Stop using scepters in pvp. Or move into melee range.

Sure, because having to go into melee range to use our ranged weapon makes a whole lot of sense.

My Mesmer would kill to have the Guardian’s scepter

I laughed. And then I remembered that I play this class, so I cried.

My Mesmer would kill to have the Guardian’s scepter

Not because of the auto-attack, i guess ^^ Smite and Chains of Light are indeed great skills (although smite could deserve symbol status).

Iavra.8510:

My Mesmer would kill to have the Guardian’s scepter

Not because of the auto-attack, i guess ^^ Smite and Chains of Light are indeed great skills (although smite could deserve symbol status).

Smite is terrible unless it’s used against a single opponent. Since the number of hits are shared amongst targets, the more targets there are, the less damage each individual target takes.

Worst weapon in the game.

Scepter is already the best ranged DPS weapon in the game. We can’t have it all. If you need range use a staff instead. The auto-attack damage isn’t as bad as you think.

If it wasn’t for the terrible auto-attack it would be a decent weapon. Smite does amazing dps. Don’t understand why it’s not symbol….whatever Anet. Chains of Lights does exactly what you expect it to.

I really want to use my Immobulus more…

Quarktastic.1027:

Iavra.8510:

My Mesmer would kill to have the Guardian’s scepter

Not because of the auto-attack, i guess ^^ Smite and Chains of Light are indeed great skills (although smite could deserve symbol status).

Smite is terrible unless it’s used against a single opponent. Since the number of hits are shared amongst targets, the more targets there are, the less damage each individual target takes.

All AoE attacks are limited to 5 targets now, so at most you get 5 hits from them, at least the scepter hits 15 times, so even if there are 5 targets in there, they’re hit 3x each. Better than nothing, but i am using staff as my ranged weapon.

The problem with staff is the very limited range on the auto-attack. As much as i love hitting enemies through doors and certain walls, i’d like to effectively damage that cannon up there.

/edit: Cannon is a bad example as it’s static and will be hit by the scepter.

The #2 bugs out a lot, at least for me, and i have to detonate the orb.
The #3 is indeed a great skill, can hit some siege if traited for bigger symbols and provides swiftness while moving around.
The #5 can be nice to stop a fleeing opponent. And nothing is more fun than putting a wall in front of the enemy portal and watch them faceplant while they try to flee inside.

While not being ranged, #4 is quite nice to prepare for an attack while waiting around the corner/inside a tower/on top of a portal. And it heals a ton with AH if the enemy won’t intervene (he will).

the staff is an extremely strong weapon if traited. even non traited it has its uses. ha, #5 i like using to stop defenders trying to enter their keeps / towers. i almost feel bad when i stop ’em sometimes. :///

scepter is not bad at all though. i was stuck using scepter while attacking a tower (siege) when invaders pulled up from behind and i actually missed using the scepter in combat. paired with a shield, and then hammer as my other set, pretty much no one could get away with 2 immobilizes (one being instant!) and two area denials / knockbacks. sure smite only works on stationary targets, so keep ‘em in place. and the scepter auto attack is decent when facing a zerg actually when you strafe hit. least i felt it was effective, dynamic and pretty fun. i wasn’t even specced for using the scepter either.

Why you no cast Smite?!

Apraxas.3685:

Needless to say it was really dissapointing to fight when one of my friend started twitching to completely negate my auto attacks.

Rangers got a buff to stop this from happening, and thieves short bow doesn’t have this issue.

Isn’t it time for some scepter love?
If the link doesn’t work just copy paste it on your browser

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSJ0pqRwjuU

Seriously You just basically copied same thread from Spvp forums about how broken are all weapons. Every single ranged weapon if your enemy moves like this acts the same. You won’t hit him at all.
I was proven for rifles. Pistols. Shortbow for ranger. longobw. god kitten scepter even mesmer one.

stop cryin over having one of best ranged weapons in game.

Seriously You just basically copied same thread from Spvp forums about how broken are all weapons. Every single ranged weapon if your enemy moves like this acts the same. You won’t hit him at all.

Not tested but i would guess that thiefs SB doesn’t bug out like that as it pretty much always hits moving targets.

As for the rest i notices that my staff #2 leads my target and tries to guess where he will be based on the direction he is moving and his speed. So if you are moving in zig-zag very fast, this mechanism fails.

As mentioned aboved, i don’t know if thiefs SB behaves the same way as it seems to instantly change direction according to enemy movements.

You could try to fire the scepter without selecting a target at all but that would require to place the camera exactly behind your char which is a very bad position.

Iavra.8510:

Seriously You just basically copied same thread from Spvp forums about how broken are all weapons. Every single ranged weapon if your enemy moves like this acts the same. You won’t hit him at all.

Not tested but i would guess that thiefs SB doesn’t bug out like that as it pretty much always hits moving targets.

As for the rest i notices that my staff #2 leads my target and tries to guess where he will be based on the direction he is moving and his speed. So if you are moving in zig-zag very fast, this mechanism fails.

As mentioned aboved, i don’t know if thiefs SB behaves the same way as it seems to instantly change direction according to enemy movements.

correct, thief short bow does not have this issue, ranger bow arrows got a speed buff to fix this.

You still dont get it do you ? This guys doesn’t move constantly in 1 direction.

This behaviour have specific name which is a bug.

Most (except sb of thief ) ranged weapon will fail to land.

Apraxas.3685:

Iavra.8510:

Seriously You just basically copied same thread from Spvp forums about how broken are all weapons. Every single ranged weapon if your enemy moves like this acts the same. You won’t hit him at all.

Not tested but i would guess that thiefs SB doesn’t bug out like that as it pretty much always hits moving targets.

As for the rest i notices that my staff #2 leads my target and tries to guess where he will be based on the direction he is moving and his speed. So if you are moving in zig-zag very fast, this mechanism fails.

As mentioned aboved, i don’t know if thiefs SB behaves the same way as it seems to instantly change direction according to enemy movements.

correct, thief short bow does not have this issue, ranger bow arrows got a speed buff to fix this.

Ranger arrows got speed buff because of WvW stepping aside.
When You saw arrow close to you, you just stepped a lil left/right making it miss.
That buff had nothing to do with this bug/issue.

So please read most threads about bugs in forums and then start writing. Cuase You have no overall idea why diff buffs/nerfs were implemented and You write kitten like that.

Here is official thread in Spvp forums about this Specifig BUG presented in this thread in video.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Projectile-Ducking-Game-breaking/first#post1077367

Mrowqa.3861:

Here is official thread in Spvp forums about this Specifig BUG presented in this thread in video.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Projectile-Ducking-Game-breaking/first#post1077367

official? is there a stamp or something that makes it so or just because you felt like it?

Apraxas.3685:

Mrowqa.3861:

Here is official thread in Spvp forums about this Specifig BUG presented in this thread in video.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Projectile-Ducking-Game-breaking/first#post1077367

official? is there a stamp or something that makes it so or just because you felt like it?

Official because it was made first. But hey. Your king of the world And You felt You have to do Your own thread and complain about something that most classes suffer from instead of Use search button and finding that thread.
LAziness is bad.

You write stuff You have no idea about. You didn’t even do proper reaserch ( ranger example here – as they suffer also form this issue even after buff ).
You didn’t even bother to look for this issue.

You just made a BIG CRY thread about your class and it’s scpeter which btw is totaly fine.

Berating somebody because they made a similar thread to some other one you saw is much worse than making a similar thread if you ask me.
Chill man.

I would say the fact that someone with swiftness can move as fast as Orb of Wrath means it’s broken.

Silver.8023:

Berating somebody because they made a similar thread to some other one you saw is much worse than making a similar thread if you ask me.
Chill man.

I would say the fact that someone with swiftness can move as fast as Orb of Wrath means it’s broken.

I didn’t berated him.
It’s not abut that he made thread that it’s most projectiles fault.
He posted it as only guardian Bug/issue without previous research.
Just to simply complain.

Well as far as i noticed orb of wrath heals more dmg then full zerker sb ranger.
Imagine now orb speed of sb arrow + #2#3 skills in chain. that person woulnd’t survive those 2=3 seconds.

So what if they didn’t research? I’m not losing any sleep over it. They were having a problem with a Guardian weapon so they went to the Guardian forum. The fact that other projectiles behave in a similar manner is irrelevant. I found the video entertaining and I wouldn’t have seen the other video you linked because I don’t look at every subforum so I certainly have no problem with them making a similar thread here.

As for your second paragraph, I’m confused as to what you’re trying to say. Orb of Wrath heals more damage than a full berserker shortbow Ranger can put out? Orb of Wrath doesn’t heal at all. :S
The only way Guardian scepter is going to kill anything is if they’re standing still for a long time.

finally, i was waiting for someone to post a vid like that.

this isn’t a pvp-exclusive issue. even pve mobs are capable of escaping your attacks if they move fast enough. which isn’t that uncommon either.

it’s just sad.

and yes, this weapon deserves a symbol.

I can’t watch the video so I’ll just presume it relates to the side-stepping obstructed type attacks?

While harder to achieve, it’s still quite common on rangers.
It’s also quite common on elementalists.

Since it’s a quality of life issue, it should probably be fixed for elementalists and guardians. Assuming of course this is what we’re all talking about. Youtube is work blocked

It’s just the movement prediction going into effect. Normally people strafe and don’t wiggle, so the weapon is designed to aim at where they’re expected to be, not where they are now. Scepter just makes it more apparent because of its slower movement speed. The only way to fix this is to make all projectiles auto-hit, which goes completely against the design of the game.

Exedore.6320:

It’s just the movement prediction going into effect. Normally people strafe and don’t wiggle, so the weapon is designed to aim at where they’re expected to be, not where they are now. Scepter just makes it more apparent because of its slower movement speed. The only way to fix this is to make all projectiles auto-hit, which goes completely against the design of the game.

why is it against game design? don’t other profession’s auto-attacks..auto-hit? doesn’t focus attack auto-hit already?

The problem with the scepter is that you don’t even need to wiggle around to avoid most hits. An enemy starts shooting at you with a rifle/bow/staff at 900-1200 range. You launch a barrage of the slowest projectile auto-attack in the game. 3 orbs are fired at the enemy before a single one reaches them (which is ridiculous by itself), whatever will he do to avoid taking all that damage?! Move 5 feet to the right.

I use the Scepter in most of my builds, but it’s mostly a 600-ish ranged combat weapon. The only times I use it are when the enemy is a few meters out of my reach and kiting me, when long-range is the only option, or when I want to chain CC. I really enjoy the weapon, but the auto-attack is unreliable at best, and it is simply out performed by all other ranged auto attacks (which makes Guardiian ranged sPvP lopsided).

Twill.6217:

Exedore.6320:

It’s just the movement prediction going into effect. Normally people strafe and don’t wiggle, so the weapon is designed to aim at where they’re expected to be, not where they are now. Scepter just makes it more apparent because of its slower movement speed. The only way to fix this is to make all projectiles auto-hit, which goes completely against the design of the game.

why is it against game design? don’t other profession’s auto-attacks..auto-hit? doesn’t focus attack auto-hit already?

Some auto attacks like the Mesmer GS auto-hit, while others are projectile based. However, nearly all projectile based auto attacks have the speed to reliably hit in most cases.

Mrowqa.3861:

Silver.8023:

Berating somebody because they made a similar thread to some other one you saw is much worse than making a similar thread if you ask me.
Chill man.

I would say the fact that someone with swiftness can move as fast as Orb of Wrath means it’s broken.

-snip-

Well as far as i noticed orb of wrath heals more dmg then full zerker sb ranger.
Imagine now orb speed of sb arrow + #2#3 skills in chain. that person woulnd’t survive those 2=3 seconds.

what on gods green earth are you even talking about.

I think Smite should hit the targeted area once (like one giant blue fire ball smashing into the ground just a idea) instead of repeatedly hitting 15 times, because most of the time it doesn’t get its full 15 hits.

Twill.6217:

why is it against game design? don’t other profession’s auto-attacks..auto-hit? doesn’t focus attack auto-hit already?

The game is built around dodging or avoiding attacks. If you take that way, you’ve taken away a good chunk of the game. There are a select few abilities that are instant cast and not projectile like the scepter immobilize. But I’m sure the designers decided to make those exceptions rather than the rule.

WoW just WoW.
I just see how hard is to say smth in the forums while ppl aren’t even smart enough to know that there was a misstyped letter : instead of “heal” should be “deal” but seems noone was brilliant enough to notice that.

And yes scepter auto with full zerk hits like a truck. add to that #2/#3 immo skill from it + fire /lightning sigil and noone will survive this kind of burst at least in spvp/tpvp untill they react fast to immo.

TY for showing this. I should have made a “Useless Scepter” video showcasing how one of our weapons is a complete joke (I still may do it if we don’t get any fixes) but this definitely helps bring some issues to light.

Seriously, the devs totally kittening dropped the ball on us with this weapon.

Mrowqa.3861:

Well as far as i noticed orb of wrath heals more dmg then full zerker sb ranger.
Imagine now orb speed of sb arrow + #2#3 skills in chain. that person woulnd’t survive those 2=3 seconds.

Mrowqa.3861:

And yes scepter auto with full zerk hits like a truck. add to that #2/#3 immo skill from it + fire /lightning sigil and noone will survive this kind of burst at least in spvp/tpvp untill they react fast to immo.

You can keep saying that or show some math to prove your point. In the meantime, I’ll prove you wrong.

Scepter auto hits for 195 damage every .83 seconds. Ranger auto hits for 97 direct damage every .54 seconds, with an additional 128 damage over 3s.

That’s about 235 DPS for the Scepter versus 416 DPS for the Shortbow.

Assuming you’re able to get someone Immobilized inside of Smite, here’s the math:

Your Immobilize lasts 2s so that’s the maximum time anyone will be in Smite. In 2s, Smite will deal (1200/6*2) 400 damage, so that’s an increase in +200 DPS. However, that’s not taking into account the cast time for Chains of Light and Smite that takes away from your auto-attack.

However, the Ranger can also increase their DPS with Poison Volley, except this has a wide spread and doesn’t need an immobilize. Assuming you only hit with 1 arrow, that’s an increase of (860/2seconds) +430 DPS.

In total that’s 435 vs 846 DPS.

Overall, the Scepter can’t burst for more damage. In addition, the Scepter fires much slower in velocity, and slower overall. Therefore an enemy dodging your attacks with the Scepter affects your DPS much more overall, and cooincidentally it’s also much easier to avoid Scepter attacks due to the slow firing speed (poor balance).

@Balance:

If you have a low damage ranged auto attack, you make it fire in rapid succession.
If you have a high damage ranged auto attack, you make it fire in slow succession.

If you have a high damage ranged auto attack, you shouldn’t make it fire in slow succession, AND move slowly in the air. All that does is double down on compensating for the high damage, and instead makes it underpowered.

Alarox.4590:

Mrowqa.3861:

Well as far as i noticed orb of wrath heals more dmg then full zerker sb ranger.
Imagine now orb speed of sb arrow + #2#3 skills in chain. that person woulnd’t survive those 2=3 seconds.

Mrowqa.3861:

And yes scepter auto with full zerk hits like a truck. add to that #2/#3 immo skill from it + fire /lightning sigil and noone will survive this kind of burst at least in spvp/tpvp untill they react fast to immo.

You can keep saying that or show some math to prove your point. In the meantime, I’ll prove you wrong.

Scepter auto hits for 195 damage every .83 seconds. Ranger auto hits for 97 direct damage every .54 seconds, with an additional 128 damage over 3s.

That’s about 235 DPS for the Scepter versus 416 DPS for the Shortbow.

Assuming you’re able to get someone Immobilized inside of Smite, here’s the math:

Your Immobilize lasts 2s so that’s the maximum time anyone will be in Smite. In 2s, Smite will deal (1200/6*2) 400 damage, so that’s an increase in +200 DPS. However, that’s not taking into account the cast time for Chains of Light and Smite that takes away from your auto-attack.

However, the Ranger can also increase their DPS with Poison Volley, except this has a wide spread and doesn’t need an immobilize. Assuming you only hit with 1 arrow, that’s an increase of (860/2seconds) +430 DPS.

In total that’s 435 vs 846 DPS.

Overall, the Scepter can’t burst for more damage. In addition, the Scepter fires much slower in velocity, and slower overall. Therefore an enemy dodging your attacks with the Scepter affects your DPS much more overall, and cooincidentally it’s also much easier to avoid Scepter attacks due to the slow firing speed (poor balance).

---

@Balance:

If you have a low damage ranged auto attack, you make it fire in rapid succession.
If you have a high damage ranged auto attack, you make it fire in slow succession.

If you have a high damage ranged auto attack, you shouldn’t make it fire in slow succession, AND move slowly in the air. All that does is double down on compensating for the high damage, and instead makes it underpowered.

Thank you.

I was trying out scepter in spvp once, I remember chasing some guy, Chains of Light was on cooldown, all he did was run away at normal speed over a little mound thing and around a 30 degree-ish turn right at the end and not a single orb hit the guy…. I probably fired close to ten or more orbs at him.
I’m pretty sure any other profession’s ranged would have hit him, he was somewhere within the 600-900 range. Smite was also useless in this situation.
In any case, that situation simply reminded me why I don’t use scepter anymore.

You can outrun your own scepter projectiles with swiftness when out of combat. That’s how slow it is. A-net… seriously… please fix this.

And what about the warrior? look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj-Xjdzo3Yc
10k with autoattack that never miss thats not even as high it can go ive seen 30k. on top of that same armor and way higher hp.
its funny how someone can say “you cant have everything” when its in fact useless in pvp and the staff is so little range its almost like melee.
i thought all professions were all roles no? guardian were suppose to be the only profession that cant kill with ranged in pvp? OK.
And to be honest the auto attack damage on scepter is average but it doesn’t help when none of the attacks hit the target.

A-net please don’t do something like this…

Guardian scepter projectile speed increased 50%
Orb of Wrath: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 50%

I tried to pull final ac path 3 boss and my entire guild laughed at me in vent when not a single orb hit it for a solid minute XD. They then proceded to say “ok your right, the auto attack blows.”

Lol Guanglai Kangyi the PvE hero.

Guardian Scepter is NOT the best ranged weapon in the game, not by far.

It’s situational at best and only does good damage against a target that stands still and does nothing, like a wooden box.

Alarox.4590:

@Balance:

If you have a low damage ranged auto attack, you make it fire in rapid succession.
If you have a high damage ranged auto attack, you make it fire in slow succession.

If you have a high damage ranged auto attack, you shouldn’t make it fire in slow succession, AND move slowly in the air. All that does is double down on compensating for the high damage, and instead makes it underpowered.

Balance

We have some of the best bunker builds in the game.
We have decent dps builds.
The difference between quite a few of the DPS and bunker builds is a few trait/rune/gear swaps.
We have some of the best healing in the game.
We have some of the best support in the game.
We have pretty solid control options.
We have some of the best melee in the game.
We have the best cooldowns in the game.
Our downed support, condition removal, and stunbreaks are all pretty solid.
We have somewhat poor ranged damage, Smite and Chains of Light are still pretty solid.

The only time that I pull out the scepter is in high-end fractals, and only when I don’t feel like playing at skill cap. Scepter is not a GREAT weapon, but it fulfills it’s role and it still has strong points. No class can have everything…

I agree that the ranged collision detection needs to be fixed for certain ranged weapons. Aiming is mostly for skillshots, not auto-attacks.

I love how guardians are crying about this… Ok this game is about moving from melee to ranged and back or fighting at a distance you are comfortable with. But spare a thought for rangers… You dont see them moan about their weapons… And yes you can negate any projectile skill with this movement. So while you guys seem to focus and moan about the one skill that is affected by this issue its brings to light that rangers arnt event mentioning this. And they have alot more skills that act like this.

Zeoli.3402:

I love how guardians are crying about this… Ok this game is about moving from melee to ranged and back or fighting at a distance you are comfortable with. But spare a thought for rangers… You dont see them moan about their weapons… And yes you can negate any projectile skill with this movement. So while you guys seem to focus and moan about the one skill that is affected by this issue its brings to light that rangers arnt event mentioning this. And they have alot more skills that act like this.

This thread is about more than just the tactic of strafing left/right. It’s about the Scepter projectile speed and the Scepter overall. Please read the entire thread.

Zeoli.3402:

I love how guardians are crying about this… Ok this game is about moving from melee to ranged and back or fighting at a distance you are comfortable with. But spare a thought for rangers… You dont see them moan about their weapons… And yes you can negate any projectile skill with this movement. So while you guys seem to focus and moan about the one skill that is affected by this issue its brings to light that rangers arnt event mentioning this. And they have alot more skills that act like this.

It’s also a matter of degree.

The scepter is far harder to hit anything with than any other ranged weapon. You don’t even need to mini strafe. just change directions every few seconds. The orbs will keep moving on their pre-determined paths. For other ranged weapons you actually have to mini-strafe… which leaves you kinda stuck in one place.

Vs guard scepter you can just walk back and fowarth and have a far greater area of movement and still not get hit at all. Scepter is and has been in dire need of a fix.

That’s not to say that other ranged weapons aren’t as well… just that scepter is far worse off.

I played a ranger and remember going against another ranger using a shortbow.
just taping the strafes sends the projectile on a path to intercept.

what would be good is to delay using an intercepting path until the person has been moving for a second.

but yes, i agree the auto attack projectile speed on the scepter needs to be increased.
The slow speed is just salt in the wounds for ranged weapons.
There is no reason for a Magical Orb of light not to change course and force the target to dodge. however they would need to reduce the auto attack speed as the chance for a hit has increased.

sorry if my post seemed off, i was half asleep and did not mean for this to come out like that.