Guild Wars 2

Before I start, this isn’t a cry post, I want to learn something here.

I’ve run into a Gunnar’s Hold Silver General Guardian more than a few times in WvW recently. He often hangs around the bottom left camp in the borders looking for duels, and he utterly destroys me every time I fight him. If you are that guy, serious props, you are good! ^^

I know he runs 6 in the toughness tree for the meditations heal trait, and that he used scepter focus / sword torch. I also know he hit me for 6k with smite condition when I was on a glassy build (2200 armor tops), I think he used the torch to boost the damage by setting himself alight. I think he had around 14k health, from the feel of things.

I main Thief so it’s a hellish matchup for me, since I just can’t recover from hits like he can, and I have to get close to burst him. I was hoping someone could enlighten me on what the build/gear is is likely to be so I can play it a while, try to find weaknesses I can exploit. Thanks for any/all replies ^^

Sounds like straight up zerker meditation. Pretty hard to counter as a thief.

Seems like a L2Play issue to me.

The guardian burst comes from shield of wrath, (focus #5) which is on a 45 sec cooldown and telegraphed as kitten as well as from torch 4 which is on 15 sec cooldown.

Beside that, the guard has autoattacks as the next most threatening thing.

As long as u dodge out of focus 5 burst his measly 14k health should be gone in seconds if u get a BS down.

If u play aggressive, a glass cannon guardian simply has no means to take such punishment

Hunter.4783:

Seems like a L2Play issue to me.

The guardian burst comes from shield of wrath, (focus #5) which is on a 45 sec cooldown and telegraphed as kitten as well as from torch 4 which is on 15 sec cooldown.

Beside that, the guard has autoattacks as the next most threatening thing.

As long as u dodge out of focus 5 burst his measly 14k health should be gone in seconds if u get a BS down.

If u play aggressive, a glass cannon guardian simply has no means to take such punishment

^ This guy is troll…

It’s not a L2P issue, If anyone thinks Focus #5 is burst…well

But anyway, this guard definitively built to 1v1 fast, He probably had Judges Intervention to make or close gaps, smite meditation and that other one for the condi’s (forget the name), let me guess he healed with Shelter or Signet doesnt matter but yea; I love fighting teefs on my guard too.

I don’t play a thief, but in wvw you have to fight those things.

It should be the opposite. Offensive is suicide. I love it when thieves come and kitten in because it’s not an exchange they can win. One thing people seem to forget is that guardians also have blinds to screw with your damage, much like you have blinds to do the same. If you haven’t gotten most of their health in your first flurry of attacks, you need to bounce. And yes, don’t go near them when that shield is on. The other thing is that guardians frequently possess fast hitting and multihit attacks and a lot of our dps comes from AA meaning the effect of blind on them is not as big.

I hate patient thieves. Those that harass you with shortbow and don’t close in until they’re ready to win the fight. You try to close in but they just use their superior mobility to get out of the way. Make the guardian waste their cooldowns.

But it’s not easy. Thieves seem easiest to fight on my condi engineer or when I’m using medi guardian, and most likely for good reason. On the other hand that’s the only guardian build I know that can beat them.

He’s most likely running 2/6/6/0/0/ or 0/6/6/1/1, pretty much as full dps a guard can go in pvp situations. The thing about these builds, they have no sustain. Sure you get heals from meds, but the longer a fight goes on the more the fight turns into your favor. That being said thief does have a hard time against dps guards. If you can survive his initial burst, and get him to blow his CDs then you should be fine. Also condition thief does a number on these builds too.

Focus 5 isn’t burst in of itself, but it is part of the overall “first strike” package. It is one of those deals like said, pre-fight set-up, you see it cast so you know what is coming next. So react, dodge, CC, etc and there goes “part” of the burst

Also has already stated, if you, has the triple med Zerk/class Guardian, don’t put the enemy down within the first few seconds, chances are high you will die due to lack of:

A. Fight reset
B. Sustain
C. Cool down / ability management

Just about every other class can dis-engage and reset the fight. A zerk Guardian has a bit more difficulty but it isn’t impossible. Traveler runes, GS 3, JI, etc. Some ways to move about.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

I think he used the torch to boost the damage by setting himself alight.

I thought this didn’t work?

Jugglemonkey.8741:

I’ve run into a Gunnar’s Hold Silver General Guardian more than a few times in WvW recently. He often hangs around the bottom left camp in the borders looking for duels, and he utterly destroys me every time I fight him.

I can ask around. Does he have a guild tag?

Most likely a zerker meditation build, perhaps some soldiers in the mix. It really does counter zerker thieves, but struggles against condition thieves.

Crapgame.6519:

Focus 5 isn’t burst in of itself, but it is part of the overall “first strike” package. It is one of those deals like said, pre-fight set-up, you see it cast so you know what is coming next. So react, dodge, CC, etc and there goes “part” of the burst

Also has already stated, if you, has the triple med Zerk/class Guardian, don’t put the enemy down within the first few seconds, chances are high you will die due to lack of:

A. Fight reset
B. Sustain
C. Cool down / ability management

Just about every other class can dis-engage and reset the fight. A zerk Guardian has a bit more difficulty but it isn’t impossible. Traveler runes, GS 3, JI, etc. Some ways to move about.

That’s why I run hammer on my zerker gaurd. JI/ring with shield up, they dodge into ring, kill them.

I think he’s a Condi/DPS/Meditations hybrid build, not a pure Medi-zerker.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I think he’s a Condi/DPS/Meditations hybrid build, not a pure Medi-zerker.

I can see your point of view, however lets look at what we know.

Six into Valor for Monk Focus
6k crit with Smite Condition
Scepter/focus and sword/torch
Maybe around 14k hp

I think it would be safe to say he has six into Radiance for Right-Hand Strength, he’s using two one handed weapons after all. 6k Smite is still high even against a light armor target, so that makes me believe he’s mostly power/ferocity. Lastly he has around 14k hp, so we know he’s not full zerker. If I had to take an educated guess I’d say he’s mostly zerker with a few pieces of Soldier or Valkyrie running 2/6/6/0/0.

However this is all speculation, and I could be completely wrong. I’m just looking at the facts presented, and making a logical assumption.

Facts:
hit for 6k with smite condition (confirmed)
used healing meditations (probable)
target had around 2200 armor (confirmed)

Speculation:
14k hp (possible)

Based on a build editor, the only way to get a 6k smite condition on a 2200 armor target is to have full/most zerker gear, 10% burning, 10% condition target, 25 stacks of might and/or vulnerability stacks.

So 2 or 3 in zeal, at least 5 in radiance, and 6 in valor.

This puts the player at around 10k health, but the OP said it “felt” like 14k life. The “feel” may have been based on how much damage his attacks did to the hp bar percentage, and blocks/blinds can attribute to lower damage being done, as well as protection and incoming healing in bursts. So I put less merit in the total life and base it on actual damage done.

Sounds like he was a glassy meditation build with high burst. 2/5/6/x/x
Probably wearing enough zerk for at least 210-220% crit damage, and most likely runes with damage modifiers on them as well, like scholar or strength.

Based on damage reported done and game mechanics, that seems like the only way to achieve 6k damage on a smite condition to a 2200 armor target.

CMF.5461:

Facts:
hit for 6k with smite condition (confirmed)
used healing meditations (probable)
target had around 2200 armor (confirmed)

Speculation:
14k hp (possible)

Based on a build editor, the only way to get a 6k smite condition on a 2200 armor target is to have full/most zerker gear, 10% burning, 10% condition target, 25 stacks of might and/or vulnerability stacks.

So 2 or 3 in zeal, at least 5 in radiance, and 6 in valor.

This puts the player at around 10k health, but the OP said it “felt” like 14k life. The “feel” may have been based on how much damage his attacks did to the hp bar percentage, and blocks/blinds can attribute to lower damage being done, as well as protection and incoming healing in bursts. So I put less merit in the total life and base it on actual damage done.

Sounds like he was a glassy meditation build with high burst. 2/5/6/x/x
Probably wearing enough zerk for at least 210-220% crit damage, and most likely runes with damage modifiers on them as well, like scholar or strength.

Based on damage reported done and game mechanics, that seems like the only way to achieve 6k damage on a smite condition to a 2200 armor target.

Fact: Teef lost
Fact: None of us can proove anything, not even if 6k hits were crit or not.

Seems like you didn’t really have a chance to retaliate. I’ll guess 2-6-6-0-0, the Focus 5-Scepter 3 (chain with JI) —> swap-→ Torch 4 double tap- Sword 3 combo can 100-0 any squishy who can’t react in time. And the closer a meditation guardian gets to you, the harder they can hit you- and we have blinds and blocks up the kitten so we can hit you while you can’t hit us back. It’s a nightmare matchup for most thieves imo.

CMF.5461:

Facts:
hit for 6k with smite condition (confirmed)
used healing meditations (probable)
target had around 2200 armor (confirmed)

Speculation:
14k hp (possible)

Based on a build editor, the only way to get a 6k smite condition on a 2200 armor target is to have full/most zerker gear, 10% burning, 10% condition target, 25 stacks of might and/or vulnerability stacks.

So 2 or 3 in zeal, at least 5 in radiance, and 6 in valor.

This puts the player at around 10k health, but the OP said it “felt” like 14k life. The “feel” may have been based on how much damage his attacks did to the hp bar percentage, and blocks/blinds can attribute to lower damage being done, as well as protection and incoming healing in bursts. So I put less merit in the total life and base it on actual damage done.

Sounds like he was a glassy meditation build with high burst. 2/5/6/x/x
Probably wearing enough zerk for at least 210-220% crit damage, and most likely runes with damage modifiers on them as well, like scholar or strength.

Based on damage reported done and game mechanics, that seems like the only way to achieve 6k damage on a smite condition to a 2200 armor target.

Smite Condition is really weird. It sometimes randomly hits for up to like 9k. I think it’s just some weird kind of bug. Generally it won’t hit any higher than 2k, 3-4k on really squishy targets.

Wow, thanks for all the replies ^^

Yeah, I did have very little chance to retaliate, mainly because the initial burst is instant cast so he could pick the times between dodges when I’m vulnerable. That initial combo often left me with 40% health, blinded and on fire, which is a pretty hard position to come back from. I knew enough not to attack when he had the shield up, but that really only leaves you the option of kiting and trying to heal. It’s hard for me to stealth since he has so many blocks, If I shadowstep away he still has JI to chase. If I do manage to avoid the JI and recover, he still has all his defensive cooldowns ready and a pretty strong scepter auto to keep pressure up. It’s a hard fight…

It’s is definitely a L2P issue, but having said that I won’t lose sleep if I still find these guys difficult. Every build should have a counter, I just want to maximise my chances of beating him anyway ^^

The general consensus seems to be that I should be more patient and try to bait out the cooldowns, I will try to work on that. I’m also going to roll a guardian now I know roughly what stats to aim for, since the best way to learn how to kill something is to play it and see what kills you. Again, thanks very much for all replies ^^

Jugglemonkey.8741:

I knew enough not to attack when he had the shield up, but that really only leaves you the option of kiting and trying to heal.

Just to clarify, if possible you absolutely do want to attack him while the shield is up. If you hit it three times, it disappears and does no damage… It’s only if you leave it alone that it explodes. You may be thinking of mace 3, which has a different animation and only triggers a strike if hit. If you spend most of the fight on shortbow you will have a far better time, with poison field, and plenty of evades… Judges intervention has a decent cd and you can kite reasonably well after that is gone.

Hey guys, I’m not saying this is a definite, but it’s possible that guardian might be me, although the is plenty of other burst guardians on gunnars hold, I’ve been running the sword/torch scepter/focus setup on an off for awhile now the build I use is 0/20/30/0/20 for optimum sword damage, I run full zerker with two soilder trinks, my usual setup is gs/sword focus, with 20/0/30/0/20, with the same gear, anyway, any questions feel free to ask, see you around :P!

Siroso.2769:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

I knew enough not to attack when he had the shield up, but that really only leaves you the option of kiting and trying to heal.

Just to clarify, if possible you absolutely do want to attack him while the shield is up. If you hit it three times, it disappears and does no damage… It’s only if you leave it alone that it explodes. You may be thinking of mace 3, which has a different animation and only triggers a strike if hit. If you spend most of the fight on shortbow you will have a far better time, with poison field, and plenty of evades… Judges intervention has a decent cd and you can kite reasonably well after that is gone.

Both work actually. The shield effect of focus 5 is a set-up and it has a time limit.

So you can turn and burn so it fades on its own or you can do some basic attacks and fade it that way. Both work. Personally, I turn and burn so its on cool down then engage. Just how it works for me but your mileage may vary.

Off topic, but I love it when others attack me while I block, say hello to 1055 burn tick

Crapgame.6519:

Siroso.2769:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

I knew enough not to attack when he had the shield up, but that really only leaves you the option of kiting and trying to heal.

Just to clarify, if possible you absolutely do want to attack him while the shield is up. If you hit it three times, it disappears and does no damage… It’s only if you leave it alone that it explodes. You may be thinking of mace 3, which has a different animation and only triggers a strike if hit. If you spend most of the fight on shortbow you will have a far better time, with poison field, and plenty of evades… Judges intervention has a decent cd and you can kite reasonably well after that is gone.

Both work actually. The shield effect of focus 5 is a set-up and it has a time limit.

So you can turn and burn so it fades on its own or you can do some basic attacks and fade it that way. Both work. Personally, I turn and burn so its on cool down then engage. Just how it works for me but your mileage may vary.

Huh, good to know, I did indeed think that it blew up when destroyed. Thanks ^^

Kinda reinforces the point that I need to actually play guardian for a while, it’s not a class I have much experience with and it shows. I need more char slots :/

i run as guardian with sc/f +sw/t on gunars
build 2,6,6,0,0
14500 hp
2.5k power (when blocks a thief spamming i can get almost 3k power)
burning 2 sec for 1k dmg when block
my sow does 4-5k dmg if crit to low armor enemies
JI does 2k dmg
smite 1-2k
i have both sigil of fire and air for 2k dmg every 3-5 seconds
i am not full zerk so my crit dmg is 180%
+37% dmg with sword – 10% to burning, 10% to condition, 10% with sword, 7% runes

to counter this attack from range with sb until he is below 50% hp and use his kittenite to heal. then pressure bit more so he use his elite and range him again till his aegis gone than full burst him
use evade with bow when needed
use poison field so he wont heal much
before you going to cnd use AA to clean the aegis

d/p has a chance if they harass him long time
be careful from immobilize from scepter as #2 can do 8-10k dmg and scepter AA does 1.5-2k dmg and burning does 1k dmg so use stealth when needed

guardian dps come from AA mainly as they can dish out huge dmg so evade and attack from range to counter them
my AA sword for 1 rotation hits for 7k+2k sigils+1k burning

pretty hard to counter 1v1 but doable

Jugglemonkey.8741:

I’m also going to roll a guardian now

Good luck