Guild Wars 2

Recently I’ve been running with a 20/20/30/0/0 lockdown build and I’m really starting to believe that this may possibly be the best trait spread for a lockdown Mesmer. I wanted to take some time to breakdown and explain why I think this is such an awesome spread and what to look for when forging your own lockdown build.

CHAOTIC INTERRUPTION
After trying out both traits for months, I now firmly believe that Chaotic Interruption is a superior trait to Confounding Suggestions. While Confounding is my first love, Chaotic is more versatile (works with weapons like Focus and Greatsword) and offers a stronger effect. The immobilize can be increased with condition duration, and the extra condition can be devastating. While Confounding’s saving grace is that it doesn’t require an interrupt, Chaotic doesn’t require a daze, and you have more control over when it procs. Also, you can’t stunbreak an immobilize.

Think about it, in order to set up shatters what’s the one thing that usually comes first: Immobilize. Chaotic Interruption helps take away the need to do the ever-predictable ileap ->swap combo to set up shatters, phantasm hits, or blurred frenzy procs. Combined with things like Halting Strike, Vuln-on-interrupt, and bountiful interruption and you can get some glorious s damage off a single interrupt.
Part of what makes this build so great is the diverse group of weapons it can accomodate. So far every weapon combo but the torch has been tested to work well.

BUILD VERSATILITY
Lets take a look at two very different lockdown builds that both make excellent use of the 20/20/30 setup: Stickerhappy’s Phantasmic Interruptions and Sensotix’s Bountiful Interruption.

• PHANTASMIC INTERRUPTIONS
  Phantasmic Interruptions is a Sword/Sword – Greatsword Phantasm build that mixes powerful phantasms with the lockdown concept. iSwordsman and iZerker are some of the heaviest hitting phantasms we have, and while most phantasm builds involve passive play, this one is quite active.

Phantasms + Lockdown: The 3 Chaos traits (V, VIII, and XI) all end up helping the phantasm very easily. Keeping an opponent (or multiple opponents) immobilized while Swordsman and Zerker shred them is great, but the bonus of 5x might on interrupt means that the better you play, the more powerful your phantasms become. Debilitating Dissipation plays an interesting part here, as you’re likely only going to have or 2 clones up at a time it’s easier to activate clone deaths via Deceptive Evasion. Sword clones are preferred as they make sure to stick to a target before dying messily all over them.

• SENSOTIX’S TPVP BOUNTIFUL INTERRUPT
  Sensotix’s build is another Sword/Sword – Greatsword build that is both very powerful and highly supportive. Stealing boons from opponents and proccing interrupts in addition to Lyssa or Hoelbrak runes in order to share massive amounts of boons to allies.

Boonshare + Lockdown: As a fan of support builds, this is one of my favorite builds of all time. Sensotix marries both concepts wonderfully (though I would’ve chosen offhand focus for more AoE interrupts) and in a way that makes neither feel forced. If you don’t know about how powerful Mesmer boonsharing with signet of inspiration could be, you can check Alissah’s Boonstorm Video. The Chaos line offers an abundance of boons, especially protection. Combined with boonstealing from Arcane, Lyssa Runes, and a little bit of luck and you can offer incredible amounts of boon coverage (even without the signet of you’re using sword/focus-staff).

TRAITS
Part of what makes 20/20/30/0/0 Lockdown so interesting is the build diversity it allows. You could trait for shatters, Phantasms, shantasm (/barf), condition damage, or even a hybrid build and still be effective. I believe that the most effective playstyle for this spec learns to combine an adaptive shatter/phantasmal playstyle; learning when to shatter and why but not overshattering.
20 DOMINATION – II (or V), VII
3x Vuln on interrupt, 2k+ damage on interrupt (or AoE cripple on clone death), Shatters remove boons, 5xVuln per daze… ’nuff said.
Halting Strike/Crippling Dissipation: Halting Strike is a good damage alternate to Mental Torment and 15% Illusion dmg. Its worth noting that Halting Strike can trigger “on-crit” sigils like Lightning and Fire. Crippling Dissipation is a very strong and very vexing trait. While it works fine when randomly spamming clones, using this trait more strategically can yeild some very impressive results in both solo and team fights.

Shattered Concentration: is a staple of this build. One of the reasons you bring a lockdown Mesmer to a teamfight is because of our ability to strip boons. Shattered Concentration gives us a way to constantly strip boons from difficult opponents like Warriors and Guardians and is one of the greatest forms of lockdown we can offer to a team.
20 DUELING – X
The first dueling slot is extremely flexible and offers a LOT of good choices. Deceptive Evasion, however, is a must for this spec.

Deceptive Evasion: Is crucial to this build. In order to be effective the build requires a high rate of clone production in order to effectively use clone deaths and pump out respectable damage via shatters, strip boons, and stack vulnerability on high-priority targets. It’s also a crucial component to our defenses.

30 Chaos – VIII, XI
Debilitating Dissipation, Master of Manipulation, Chaotic Dampening and Bountiful Interruption are all solid choices in this spec but Bountiful Interruption is arguably the best optional trait to take.

Bountiful Interruption: is a huge boost to the build and should be seriously considered. the 5x might plus a random boon is a boost to all forms of damage; shatters, phantasms, halting strike and condition damage. Practically essential if you’re running Staff, Greatsword, or Focus. It’s also worth noting that since we’re climbing 30 into Chaos we have a 30% boon duration increase. This means that any 3-second boons become 4 seconds, including those from Bountiful.

Chaotic Interruption: As stated above, CI is the focus of this build. Remember that this trait doesn’t just immobilize but also Blinds/Cripple/Chills. Since we’re climbing 20 into Domination, we also gain Vulnerability on interrupt AND have 20% condition duration increase.

UTILITIES
I personally use Blink, Decoy, and Mantra of Distraction. I know this leaves me with absolutely 0 condition removal besides Lyssa Runes, but that’s a risk I’m willing to take. The only required Utility is Mantra of Distraction so the other two can be swapped at will. A solid utility spread would be:
DISENGAGE: Blink / Decoy / Mantra of Concentration
CONDITION DEFENSE: Null Field / Mantra of Resolve
Lockdown Mantra of Distraction (recommended) / Signet of Domination
Between Elites, I prefer Mass Invis for saving allies and proccing Lyssa Runes but Moa Morph is also a viable alternative.

I hope this helps anyone whos looking to forge their own Mesmer lockdown build, and clearly explains why I feel 20/20/30/0/0 may be the best spread for lockdown Mesmer to go. I’m not saying that this spec is entirely superior to other lockdown builds, as each build has it’s own unique strengths and weaknesses and is catered to the personality/skills of their users. I’m saying that as a general template, 20/20/30 has everything a lockdown Mesmer needs to be effective yet is versatile enough to be customized to suit individual needs.

What kind of sigils do you run with this spread? I struggle with sigil choice, because on the one hand, there are some awesome on-swap and on-crit sigils, but I feel like I’m missing out on a ton of damage if I don’t take a stacking on-kill sigil.

Just wondering if there was a consensus for lockdown mesmer sigils.

(Edit: Wondering specifically for WvW variants. I play much more WvW than sPvP, and recognize that on-kill stacking sigils are useless in sPvP)

You can still swap the weapons that have on-kill sigils after it’s fully stacked and keep them I’m pretty sure.

Also I’ve been wondering whether or not to try this build, but since you’re advocating it so greatly I guess I can give it a shot.

Glad to see you using that trait spread Chaos.

@basepi and Raunchy, check out StickerHappy’s build for ideas (sigils, etc), which uses this trait spread using GS training for WvW, GS/Sw-Sw in a semi-shatter focused spec: Phantasmic Interruptions

@skcamow

Thats our build. so its supposed to be StickerHappy and Skcamow’s build.

I’m glad that you’re running this spec as I’ve come to the same conclusion over the last month or so, therefore I’m not completely mad.

Confounding Suggestion was my first love as well, quite simply because I absolutely adore your MindCrush spec and basically constantly run that, no matter what game mode I do. I got addicted to CS and just couldn’t let it go for some reason, but then logic started to set in.

It’s a decent trait, but 25% daze increase seems a bit marginal for a GM trait and the combination of Daze & Stun just feels very strange. Very much so like Immobilise and Cripple on CI, but with CS you just don’t get anything else. Furthermore, in the Dom line on 25 Wastrel’s Punishment just seems underwhelming as well. I mean, 5% damage increase that is conditional and very situational seems not much.

The Chaos line, on the other hand, synergises much better. At 25 you get Chaotic Transference which gives me a condition boost, even more so since I run Knights gear in WvW so I have condition damage around 300, thereby providing a welcome boost to Delibitating Dissipation and Sharper Images. The crux of the matter, however, is of course Chaotic Transference and I’ve found – like you – that it can be absolutely devastating.

Sigils wise I run Hydromancy on Staff, Perception on Sword and Ice on another Sword.
The combination of Hydromancy, Ice and CI just provides a constant stream of Chill which really screws up the flow of your opponent.

I feel the same. 20/20/30/0/0 is very strong and arguably the best. It can be tweeked radically in to a PU build for example, so choosing to spread talents like this let you be flexible first of all.

But I like experimenting as I grow bored with what I run at the moment.
So, as far as lockdown I wouldn’t discard a 30/20/20 or 20/30/20. Both Domination, Dueling and Chaos trees offer a lockdown grandmaster trait. But I agree CI is probably the strongest while FI the one that would need some help.

Has anyone tested one of those builds in tpvp? I would think, that a s/s-staff build would be best here, with portal/decoy/MoR. Though I have to admit, I have a bad feeling about lyssa runes being my only defense against the abundant condition spam from necros and engis…

derbaer.1284:

Has anyone tested one of those builds in tpvp? I would think, that a s/s-staff build would be best here, with portal/decoy/MoR. Though I have to admit, I have a bad feeling about lyssa runes being my only defense against the abundant condition spam from necros and engis…

I’ve doing tPvP mostly with 30/20/20 and 20/20/30 (staff + sword/sword) the last two months. Granted, I’m by no means a top player and have R32 but I find that I do well against necros and engis, although rather than Lyssa I ran the -40% condi duration runes in my gear. The thing is, when properly chained, you can keep your opponent dazed, immobilised and/or chilled so their DPS dramatically drops. It’s still a hard fight, and some days I ran with Power Cleanse rather than Decoy, but it’s doable.

20/20/30 may be the greatest spec load-out when it comes to PvP content… You just have so much versatility in traits that you can swap between power PU, Interrupt, and even condi PU on the fly. Gotta love it.

I will say that I find CI better in group situations – immobilize helps teammates by and far more than increased daze, since dodges are basically the only defense most people have versus focus fire.

Glad to see you still advocate focus – despite iWarden being unreliable it still has to very strong abilities that work for both offense and defense (pulls/swiftness/retal on #4, damage/projectile negation on #5). The other OHs don’t quite offer the versatility focus does…

@Basepi: “On-kill” stacking sigils work in sPvP too, you gain 5 stacks per kill instead of 1. I personally use Fire/Accuracy – Energy or Energy-Bloodlust / Energy or Fire(or Energy) – Bloodlust (Or accuracy)/Hydromancy. Usually some combination of Energy, Fire, Hydromancy, Accuracy, or Bloodlust/Precision. (also, with the coming patch next month theres gonna be some major changes to sigils/runes)

@Sticker/Skcamow: Yeah man, I actually stopped using shatterlock to focus on a 20/20/30 build. When I checked yours I saw it was similar, but different weapons, sigils, runes and Domination traits. I found that interesting because even if I had switched to full Rabid the build could work well, and the more variants I explored the more I realized that 20/20/30/0/0 is just really solid.

@trooper: I’ve actually never ran 20/30/20, how’d you like it? Everytime I used Furious it was with either 30/30/10 (loved it there) or 10/30/0/0/30 (here.. not so much)

@derbaer: Almost all the builds I make I run in PvP. This particular one is my current favorite, especially using Sword-Focus/Staff for a surprising amount of AoE potential. While I run Blink/Decoy/MoDistraction I actually wouldn’t recommend it. It’s really dangerous to run around with no condition removal, and Decoy is the only skill I’d put in place of a cleanse utility but even then if I had been critiquing another build I’d advise against it. I do it because it’s been working for me despite the danger (and mostly because supcutie does it and pulls it off.) I pick decoy because it allows me to excel in many 1vX situations. With this build I will happily run into an outnumbered fight and more often than not I’ve come out successful.

The thing about not having portal is that you have to essentially prove that you’re worthwhile on a team without it. This of course depends on the teamcomp and arena – If I’m on Kyho, then I’ll go Blink/Portal/Mantra of Distraction, but I always grab the daze mantra (some may find success without it, but for me its a core part of the build). – but if not then I have to perform my job, lockdown, excellently. I have to make sure Crtl+T-targetted enemies are locked down and plagued with 15+Vulnerability, I have to make sure I’m spreading clone-death induced Weakness/Vuln in team fights, and I have to strip boons from anyone that has Fury/Protection/Stability/6+ might stacks… all while doing considerable damage.

…If all that doesn’t contribute enough to a team, well then I can still grab Portal if asked.

Myrias.8732:

20/20/30 may be the greatest spec load-out when it comes to PvP content… You just have so much versatility in traits that you can swap between power PU, Interrupt, and even condi PU on the fly. Gotta love it.

I will say that I find CI better in group situations – immobilize helps teammates by and far more than increased daze, since dodges are basically the only defense most people have versus focus fire.

Glad to see you still advocate focus – despite iWarden being unreliable it still has to very strong abilities that work for both offense and defense (pulls/swiftness/retal on #4, damage/projectile negation on #5). The other OHs don’t quite offer the versatility focus does…

If I wasn’t glory farming so hard before the March patch I would’ve been using this in WvW as well. You get a surprising amount of survivability from traiting into Chaos and Protection comes pretty often (about 30-40% protection uptime. Totally random guestimate but it feels accurate).

And the focus seems improved with this patch (though certainly not fixed), maybe I’ve been getting really lucky but iWarden has been noticeably more reliable. I love Sword/Sword to death, both for the aesthetics and the damage, and maybe I’ll rock Sword/Sword -Scepter/Focus one day soon but Focus is so much more flexible and allows for a whole world more creativity.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

And the focus seems improved with this patch (though certainly not fixed), maybe I’ve been getting really lucky but iWarden has been noticeably more reliable. I love Sword/Sword to death, both for the aesthetics and the damage, and maybe I’ll rock Sword/Sword -Scepter/Focus one day soon but Focus is so much more flexible and allows for a whole world more creativity.

I’ve noticed the same thing – honestly I never felt like focus was as broken as the forums would lead you to believe. It does have its flaws now, but in some cases I’m sure its a focus-skill thing… Using it to greatest effect is still something that is pretty difficult to do correctly in PvP. Essentially 100% up time on Retal and warden cleansing conditions is glorious! :-)

Chaos Archangel.5071:

@trooper: I’ve actually never ran 20/30/20, how’d you like it? Everytime I used Furious it was with either 30/30/10 (loved it there) or 10/30/0/0/30 (here.. not so much)

It’s fun. Play style is very similar to 20/20/30 except FI trait wouldn’t be worth if used with 2 weapons sets with interrupt capabilities (15sec internal cd makes it sort of wasted trait if you interrupt often).
So, I push hard while on GS to have at least FI proc once. When swappig weapons I am on sword/torch with no interrupt options (except for MoD which I keep for hairy moments or when swapping back to GS). In the time frame I am on torch FI is on CD so it fits perfectly the rotation. Kind of “tension and release” style if you know what I mean.

I am also curios to try 10/30/30 but haven’t got there yet. But I like the idea of nailing someone down with CI and bursting him while FI is on. Doesn’t it sound fun? I think so

I have to agree, 20/20/30 is a pretty neat trait spread.
Best thing of all: If you get tired or if you’re eating something while playing, you can simply retrait to condi PU for free! Hooray! :P

Thanks for the sigil replies, everyone! Took my lockdown spec out for the first time tonight — it was pretty rough, have a lot to learn. But I’m excited, I love high skill-cap, it’s why I love mesmer so much!

@Chaos

I still think we need more AoE lockdown capabilities in terms of traits or weapon skills. The potential of 1v1 lockdown is still miles away vs. a group.

Btw, we should play pvp again using your lockdown mes and my necro. I think it boosts the effectiveness of the lockdown with the mes is with someone else.

Good post.

This is for group play mostly, sPVP? I like the focus on interrupts, but without high spike damage I’m not really sure how I would play it. CI is a great trait but you really need to follow the immobilize up with something heavy-hitting to put people on the defensive.

The general lack of condition removal also seems like it could be harsh to play in the current meta. But fun.

Have been running a 20/20/30 hybrid lockdown build for a long time in small group WvW, its an awful lot of fun. The synergy with staff in a hybrid build is incredible, might stacks from aoe interrupts buffing all aspects of the staff damage, instant condi spam on interrupt to give the Warlock a huge damage boost (I run Perplexity so minimum 40% from the interrupt proc if I’m timing stuff right and another 8%+ from Vulnerability), it also provides a lot of condi cover for the rest of your party (OP Engis procing 15+ secs of 900 damage burn…) and the immoblise to make sure the Warlock’s projectile actually hits along with allowing you direct damage classes free rein. On swap Sword/Pistol for the double interrupt potential and bleeds from the Duelist or Sword/Focus a set that allows some incredible combinations with well timed or lucky interrupts.

Using focus if you can get an interrupt off and cast Warden on the target then follow if up with an iLeap to stack more immoblise (I run the +40% food) you can get most of the Warden’s damage in, more clutch would be casting the Warden and managing a mantra interrupt during it, relying on your opponent using an interruptable skill.

Yeah, I run 20 20 30… That is, 0 20 20 30 o.O

Just a question to all you lockdown mesmers. Is it just me or do we have something missing from the lockdown aspect in terms of traits skills or weapon skills.?

I admit that i miss the gw1 mes. But i just could not shrug off that feeling that Im missing something when playing lockdown builds. That feeling of having 1 more skill or trait that would synergize the whole concept of lockdown better.

StickerHappy.8052:

Just a question to all you lockdown mesmers. Is it just me or do we have something missing from the lockdown aspect in terms of traits skills or weapon skills.?

I admit that i miss the gw1 mes. But i just could not shrug off that feeling that Im missing something when playing lockdown builds. That feeling of having 1 more skill or trait that would synergize the whole concept of lockdown better.

Dunno, never played gw1 O_o
What kind of skill are you thinking of that synergizes with the lockdown concept?
There are already few traits that emphasize it. Without mentioning grandmaster traits, we have Halting strike and Bountiful interruption. Are you saying you would like more?

Edit: as far as weapons, almost all of our kitten nal have a way for interrupting, either by RNG or at will. I wouldn’t mind having more but I think it’s all well placed now.

I have never played GW1 so I can’t judge how the Mesmer was there, but running 20/20/30 or 30/20/20 Lockdown specs most of the last three months, I do have a feeling that something is missing. Most of our abilities are focussed on Daze/Interrupt/Stun, it’d be nice if there would be other ways mixed in to create a sense of Lockdown.

This thread gives some impression with the GW1 Mesmer had and – truth be told – I like the concept of quite a few of them. It just adds more depth to the GW2 Mesmer, which does appear a bit shallow compared to the GW1 one:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Old-friends-Skills-from-GW1

I didn’t play GW1 either but was under the impression a lot of the lockdown came from the mesmer using skills that caused you to damage yourself if you did anything while under the effect of the mesmer spell or it caused skills to fail and go on cooldown. We did have the first in GW2 it was confusion, but it turned out this was too difficult for most players so it was nerfed, we still do have it to an extent its just that most players are so bad they don’t see it as them being lockdown and just spam until they die or remember to cleanse. The second we don’t really have and I think its a shame, an interrupt is a reactive move on the Mesmer’s part it would be nice to have a proactive skill where we could go into a fight cast x on a target and the next 3 skills they use will fail and go on full CD, maybe with a trait that further punishes them for failed skills to counter the obvious choice of spamming low CD moves.

For a more immediate way to improve lockdown and Mesmer’s generally for larger scale fighting all Mantras could be made AoE. Pain then allows you to take part in damage spikes from range and Daze would give well co-ordinated groups with good boon stripping and the use of Chaotic Interruption a chance to immoblise a lot of people in preparation for well bombs/general damage spikes.

The biggest thing with GW1 and lock-down was the existence of the cast bar, which doesn’t exist in GW2. There was absolutely nothing like chain locking a monk or ele with power drain > cry of frustration > power lock (or your other myriad of combos).

Instead, we have to look for tells, which you definitely become more accustomed to the more you fight, but can become problematic when camouflaged by spell/attack effects. If they were able to tone that stuff down somehow, enabling us to have clear view of our opponents, then we’d have a better counter-play game and interrupts would feel much more viable and controlled.

The concept of Stability and it’s prevalence amongst the current meta’s heavy hitters shot Lockdown in the foot for me, personally. I’m still practising occasionally because I so desperately miss the days of Guild Wars 1 where I was rewarded for skilfully locking down and interrupting an enemy.

What I wouldn’t give for cast bars, and increased casting times for skills in general (across every proffession) to slow down the ridiculous pace of the game, and actually put some reward into it.

I used to be a top notch Mesmer in Guild Wars 1; and it saddens me that I’m unable to read a battlefield at the glance the way I used to be able to.

As it stands we work with what we have but other classes can do it better, this definitely needs to be a more emphasized aspect of the Mesmer.

P.S: Remember the sound effect that played when you interrupted someone’s skill, and the icon above their head disintegrating? I still fantasize about that. That was the sound of satisfaction and a job well done.

@skcamow

Exactly, I think this is what we have been missing. Plus the channeling of mantras which becomes somewhat a liability if Mantra of Distraction runs out. I sometimes feel that I waste some of my interrupts. I for myself just do not target for the daze, I might as well proc it off plus the interrupt.

Btw. Care for another project?

@Lord Jim

Another good point. I was wanting that to happen for the longest time. AoE mantras would make the channeling much worth it. Just make them AoE by default.

Another thing I suggest is that just remove the channels from mantras and make them stances or better just put them on a cd that automatically recharges the mantra charges once the cd is over.

@Topic

This is one of the major problems I encounter on a lockdown centered build.

Some of our skills forces you to slot them because of a specific build.Two of the Ultility slots will almost if not always go to:

Mantra of Distraction
Cleanse (Null Field, Disenchant, Mantra Cleanse)

Only 1 slot left for survivability options.

If MoD was added something else instead of a daze it would be worth it.

On Some of the duels i played, once your interrupts are on cd and the opponent is still alive, I feel like a sitting duck.

As Compared to PU, (Just the skill slots)
It would have alot of survivability because of the amount of stealth it has (Again, even without the buffs from the trait)

The interrupts on cd is the “void” that i feel.

EDITED 2/25/14

• Added a slight analysis of StickerHappy and Sensotix’s 20/20/30/0/0 builds.

I strongly believe that Mesmer lockdown will be getting some buffs in the future. What I’d love to see is a change to Wastrel’s Punishment(Dom 25) into something like “Interrupted skills take 75% longer to cooldown” or “reveal enemy cast bars.” (the latter seems highly unlikely though)

what would be nice is if they changed Protected Mantras to something like “Mantras have a wider AoE range; Mantra of Pain/Distraction become AoE” or a trait for imbued Diversion to make it “Refresh Diversion on interrupt, (20s cooldown)”

kylwilson.9137:

The concept of Stability and it’s prevalence amongst the current meta’s heavy hitters shot Lockdown in the foot for me, personally. I’m still practising occasionally because I so desperately miss the days of Guild Wars 1 where I was rewarded for skilfully locking down and interrupting an enemy.

What I wouldn’t give for cast bars, and increased casting times for skills in general (across every proffession) to slow down the ridiculous pace of the game, and actually put some reward into it.

I used to be a top notch Mesmer in Guild Wars 1; and it saddens me that I’m unable to read a battlefield at the glance the way I used to be able to.

As it stands we work with what we have but other classes can do it better, this definitely needs to be a more emphasized aspect of the Mesmer.

P.S: Remember the sound effect that played when you interrupted someone’s skill, and the icon above their head disintegrating? I still fantasize about that. That was the sound of satisfaction and a job well done.

Out of curiosity.. which other classes can lockdown better than we can? Thieves have a nice interrupt and Wars have, well, hammer but I wouldn’t consider either of those superior to what Mesmer can offer.

Also, have you been running shattered concentration? I know it’s a bit obvious but I rarely have a problem with stability because of it. In fact, I feel like Mesmer are the best counter for stab-heavy classes specifically because of Shattered.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

EDITED 2/25/14

• Added a slight analysis of StickerHappy and Sensotix’s 20/20/30/0/0 builds.

I strongly believe that Mesmer lockdown will be getting some buffs in the future. What I’d love to see is a change to Wastrel’s Punishment(Dom 25) into something like “Interrupted skills take 75% longer to cooldown” or “reveal enemy cast bars.” (the latter seems highly unlikely though)

what would be nice is if they changed Protected Mantras to something like “Mantras have a wider AoE range; Mantra of Pain/Distraction become AoE” or a trait for imbued Diversion to make it “Refresh Diversion on interrupt, (20s cooldown)”

kylwilson.9137:

The concept of Stability and it’s prevalence amongst the current meta’s heavy hitters shot Lockdown in the foot for me, personally. I’m still practising occasionally because I so desperately miss the days of Guild Wars 1 where I was rewarded for skilfully locking down and interrupting an enemy.

What I wouldn’t give for cast bars, and increased casting times for skills in general (across every proffession) to slow down the ridiculous pace of the game, and actually put some reward into it.

I used to be a top notch Mesmer in Guild Wars 1; and it saddens me that I’m unable to read a battlefield at the glance the way I used to be able to.

As it stands we work with what we have but other classes can do it better, this definitely needs to be a more emphasized aspect of the Mesmer.

P.S: Remember the sound effect that played when you interrupted someone’s skill, and the icon above their head disintegrating? I still fantasize about that. That was the sound of satisfaction and a job well done.

Out of curiosity.. which other classes can lockdown better than we can? Thieves have a nice interrupt and Wars have, well, hammer but I wouldn’t consider either of those superior to what Mesmer can offer.

Also, have you been running shattered concentration? I know it’s a bit obvious but I rarely have a problem with stability because of it. In fact, I feel like Mesmer are the best counter for stab-heavy classes specifically because of Shattered.

To put it really short, if I can roll a warrior and have someone professions (you know, minus other Warriors because Warrior dittos eh) stun-locked, and have 3200 armor, it all seems a little bit in vain. And as you mentioned, Thieves, who can daze out of stealth (which I’m fine with) more effectively, and reliably with a health steal on a 21 second cooldown (if any of our daze options stole health I’d scream for joy). They’re laughing all the way to the PvP vault.

Mind you I have always gone back to playing Lockdown because when it does work, it’s really a lot of fun and kind of gives me that old spark back, but the effort > reward simply doesn’t match up, and I think A-net need to work on this aspect of the Mesmer still. It needs a ~lot~ of work in this regard.

EDIT: I’d love to see a trait similar to Ranger’s “Moment of Clarity” if we had any decent single punishing hard hitting skills which like interrupts were such a signature trait to the original Mesmer concept. I wish I could let go, I really do.

TBH, interrupt feels a little pointless when so many skills are spammy, and some classes are almost immune (thief). There’s too much reliance on passive effects and spamming AA in general to make interrupt feel rewarding.

I’ve been running these trait lines for the last month+ or so and have been very happy with it. :] S/S and Staff/GS depending on the map.
(Knocking someone onto the glass in Skyhammer then immobilizing them is the best thing ever.)

Although I’ve been wondering if Imbued Diversion is another trait worth exploring…

calavel.6249:

TBH, interrupt feels a little pointless when so many skills are spammy, and some classes are almost immune (thief). There’s too much reliance on passive effects and spamming AA in general to make interrupt feel rewarding.

I’ve found that interrupt build works really well once you know all the tells of the different classes. You can easily interrupt thieves in the middle of Heartseeker, for example, or warriors in the middle of Eviscerate etcetc once you know what the movements look like.

To be honest, the main thing I’ve learned to look for is whether they have stability up or not. If they do, it’s easily cleared with a quick Cry of Frustration w/ Shattered Concentration. I tend to like using Null Field somewhat offensively, too.

I am not trying to play the devil’s advocate but… isn’t killing an opponents rewarding enough? When you interrupt someone you get an advantage. If it’s done multiple times during the fight you will most likely win.
Beside giving you a clear adavantage, interrupts reward you if you pick the right talents (BI, CI, FI, CS and HS. Minor traits in domination…). I never played gw1 so I do not know what you guys are talking about but to me it all falls in to the right place.

I agree that thieves are almost immune and that there is too much reliance on passive effects but while a warrior needs to be interrupted several times before you can kill him, thieves need to be interrupted 2 times. And you win, albeit not easy.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have lock-down play style buffed. But it is fun even in its current form and I see it as turning point between average and good players.

Scribble.8069:

To be honest, the main thing I’ve learned to look for is whether they have stability up or not. If they do, it’s easily cleared with a quick Cry of Frustration w/ Shattered Concentration. I tend to like using Null Field somewhat offensively, too.

This is key. When people start out with Lockdown, they forget this. Diversion is your main shatter with Lockdown, but when opponents have stability up, it’s wasted. So keep looking for that Stability icon on them, and if they have it… use your F2 shatter on them in order to strip their boons through the Shattered Concentration trait.

Once Stability is stripped off them, then you can start chaining your dazes/interrupts together. Learning to watch out for Stability is the first step, the second step is starting to understand your opponents animations and what to interrupt.

20/20/30 might be the most versatile, but I’ve found a 30/0/30/10/0 that is better as a pure pressure lockdown spec. It has a higher skill ceiling, but if I play it well I can 100→0 almost anything outside of guardians while hardly being touched. This is in top 1000 tPvP play.

The only thing I’ve had to get used to was not using DE as a crutch to churn out clones, and better usage of more limited dodging. Once I got past that, I’ve found this to be the strongest trait spread for lockdown in tPvP.

The 30 in dom allows me to take harmonious mantras, which gives me an additional mantra daze and a 3 charge mantra heal that cleanses 6 condis every ~12s. This frees up a utility slot to allow me to take signet of domination, which is what I feel puts the build over the top for massively long chained lockdown (approx ~12s continuous stun/daze, ~22s with moa).

Nettle.9025:

20/20/30 might be the most versatile, but I’ve found a 30/0/30/10/0 that is better as a pure pressure lockdown spec. It has a higher skill ceiling, but if I play it well I can 100->0 almost anything outside of guardians while hardly being touched. This is in top 1000 tPvP play.

The only thing I’ve had to get used to was not using DE as a crutch to churn out clones, and better usage of more limited dodging. Once I got past that, I’ve found this to be the strongest trait spread for lockdown in tPvP.

The 30 in dom allows me to take harmonious mantras, which gives me an additional mantra daze and a 3 charge mantra heal that cleanses 6 condis every ~12s. This frees up a utility slot to allow me to take signet of domination, which is what I feel puts the build over the top for massively long chained lockdown (approx ~12s continuous stun/daze, ~22s with moa).

I was using 30/10/30/0/0 with traited mantras but with MoR as condi removal. A lot of fun. Your build seems good but having low crit kind of sucks in pvp. Mind linking the build to see the gear, etc?

I know this thread is mainly about tPvP, how about WvW?

Has anyone tried a lockdown style build extensively in small-man/solo WvW? I am going to start playing it, however I see a couple concerns as of now:

1.) Taking a condi clense + daze mantra leaves you with either blink/decoy and mass invis for escape.
2.) GS and s/s offers a lot of offensive power, cripple, and immobilize. Swapping to s/t allows for an additional stealth with a loss of daze + iswordsman.

What do you guys think? Zerker gear and traveler runes allows for decent defensive stats, and I feel if you swap out zerker pieces for more defense stats then you lose more burst, which I’d like to try and retain as much as possible.

dominoeffect.4216:

I know this thread is mainly about tPvP, how about WvW?

Has anyone tried a lockdown style build extensively in small-man/solo WvW? I am going to start playing it, however I see a couple concerns as of now:

1.) Taking a condi clense + daze mantra leaves you with either blink/decoy and mass invis for escape.
2.) GS and s/s offers a lot of offensive power, cripple, and immobilize. Swapping to s/t allows for an additional stealth with a loss of daze + iswordsman.

What do you guys think? Zerker gear and traveler runes allows for decent defensive stats, and I feel if you swap out zerker pieces for more defense stats then you lose more burst, which I’d like to try and retain as much as possible.

Yep, you can spec for decent defense while maintaining nice offensive stats and near 100% condition duration. When I get my traveler runes, I’ll be running this build in WvW for roaming lock-down.

dominoeffect.4216:

I know this thread is mainly about tPvP, how about WvW?

Has anyone tried a lockdown style build extensively in small-man/solo WvW? I am going to start playing it, however I see a couple concerns as of now:

I run the classic Mind Crush spec whilst solo roaming in WvW. Traveller runes with zero condi cleanse, but with lemongrass soup for -40% condi duration. Works like a charm and most classes I can take down, although PU GS Power mesmers are a pain I’m finding.

The biggest problem in WvW is that it’s rarely a 1v1… Lockdown fights take a bit longer normally, and often then you’ve got somebody adding in. It’s not always easy to disengage.

Interesting idea on the 30/00/30/10/0 spec… I used to run Mindcrush without DE in sPvP so am used to less clone spam, it’ll give more daze and it’ll fix my weakness to conditions. Will definitely test that one out, thanks.

trooper.2650:

I was using 30/10/30/0/0 with traited mantras but with MoR as condi removal. A lot of fun. Your build seems good but having low crit kind of sucks in pvp. Mind linking the build to see the gear, etc?

I’m running this: http://tinyurl.com/mmmwyx9

Mirror images is my stun break / MW burst without DE. The damage isn’t shatter level but its plenty high to kill most things before dazes and stuns run out.

@Nettle

Very interesting. How do you handle the no vigor? and low prec?

StickerHappy.8052:

@Nettle

Very interesting. How do you handle the no vigor? and low prec?

that is why I went 30/10/30/0/0

@nettle
it seems really strong although it’s sort of “I kill you in few seconds or I will die” build.
No stealth, no blink, no DE but lot of interrupts though and MoA. I am sure it works for you. Stability is a big issue but you can strip it by shattering it and that’s ok. I hope it is enough. I wonder if double fire sigils are worth with such low crit rate.
Interesting though

btw. Nettle build reminds me of why Blizzard introduced Diminishing return debuff in WoW pvp at a certain point… the amount of cc from mages and locks was so outrageous that people were screaming for it. I hope your build will not trigger some wicked ideas in Anet’s mind

I love the build because it has such a rewarding skill ceiling. If you aren’t on top of things you can get trashed, but if you nail the lockdown sequence you can manhandle anyone that doesnt have multiple stability applications (which is mostly just guardians and some warriors). Additionally, it’s one of the strongest mesmer team fight builds I’ve used. If people are assisting, it’s very easy to train down anything with my lockdown + team damage support.

It’s extremely reminiscent of the gw1 mesmer playstyle, which is what I was going for. It takes practice to be good with it… I wouldn’t expect to get a good grasp on the build before a day or two of matches. I’ve been running it for a couple weeks and I still feel like I can greatly improve.

The crit rate isn’t a big problem, 35% isn’t insignificant. It isn’t shatter burst level, but it’s good enough to kill most people with the large amount of CC it has.

I initially toyed with energy sigils for more dodging, but I switched to fire to up the damage pressure. I have to be more careful with my dodges, because each one is important. The biggest hurdles to getting this down at first was getting used to limited dodging and no DE.

An ideal lockdown sequence goes something like daze mantra → berserker / fast mind stab → dom signet → mirror blade → swap/iDuelist → daze mantra → daze shatter → iLeap / MI / MW → Magic Bullet → auto attack pressure and last daze mantra if needed. Try to time dazes to interrupt, so give the opponent enough time in between to try to do something. Most people are predictable coming out of CC. If most of it lands, zerk builds can’t survive it. On tankier targets, I will try to soften them up a bit before using any CC.

@Nettle
This seems interesting, I’m going to try running something similar to this since I really like using runes of the mesmer. I just don’t think I can run without blink or decoy. Since there isn’t much vigor or escapes how do you deal with tanky classes/thieves sticking to you?

A lot of people have the problem that they see some utilities and traits as such “must haves” that they don’t experiment with new builds such as this one that can be effective without them.

You just hit thieves with a daze and then dont let them do anything. They die super fast if they are locked down. It takes very precise timing though, because they have so much evade. It comes entirely down to you landed a decent chain of CC. If you do you win, if you don’t, you don’t.

You can run decoy instead of mirror images, but it slightly lowers burst potential. If you don’t have the 3 charge daze mantra and dom signet, your lockdown isn’t quite enough to always get the job done.

I’m thinking if you use battle sigils instead of fire you could have a more consistent dps boost since you would already have good access to might with BI and GS.

I honestly think Decoy would be the better bet than Mirror Images. The burst MI grants is awesome, but Decoy performs far better in 1vX situations.. Speaking of which, without an increased Vigor or clone production how do you handle multiple opponents coming at you? How fast is your burst?

That lockdown sequence is really sick! It makes me want to forge a build around Signet of Domination (which could ideally make up for the torch’s lack of hard CC). Maybe something like…

Sword/torch – Greatsword
30/10/30/0/0 or 30/10/20/10/0 or 30/20/20/0/0 or 20/20/30/0/0
Blink, Signet of Domination, Mantra of Distraction
Sigil of fire / Energy or Hydromancy
Runes of Lyssa or Grenth

Just curious Chaos, do you run rabid gear with your 20/20/30 lockdown build or do you use mostly berserker gear/power?