Guild Wars 2

baylock.1703:

this means quit on mesmer good job arenanet game has now 1 destroyed class

I knew some people would cry about this.
Blurred Frenzy deserved this nerf.

Sinaya.4201:

LumAnth.5124:

I…. I don’t know what to say.
…

NERF iMAGE

No, not iMAGE!!

Don’t worry iMage is fine, but nerf the rest

Most professions were nerfed anyways. Out of the best professions in the game, only the guardian wasn’t.

Does anyone ever wonder if they made this game to troll MMO players…because they just ruined every professions hopes and dreams for balance besides freaking guardians.

And in a few days from now, everyone will realize how strong mesmers still are.

but today, you are still an ele in the mesmer forums who has no clue.

Eridani.8317:

Yeah you flavour of the month guys won’t be missed. The real mesmers will carry on and work with whatever we have. Personally I’m going to enjoy trying out a condition damage build with the changes to scepter skills and traits.

Thinking the same. With any luck the plethora of ZOMGPVPWINZ0R people will quit the class again.

My spec made some significant leaps. Loving the buffed Chaos traits.

basically you gone kill yourself doing shatter combo on a guard now that`s it.
imo the cd is fine but the immunity hmm… dunno too much.

Eh, I don’t really like these changes all that much… but I think my phant Mesmer will still be strong… stronger even in a group. Now I just gotta figure out what weapon sets to use now that iZerker is viable again (or so they say).

I was hoping that conditions would be viable again with this patch, but just adding a torment on a block I think will be too unreliable to have any effect beyond 1v1s. My optimism for condi mesmers was misplaced.

The good news is that iBerserker is finally fixed, as well as the bouncing priorities now giving low priority to clones. But it’s easy to me to see the half full part of the glass as a shatterer.

The problem is, that all this nerfs are actually good from a balance change perspective, but they leave Mesmers with too few alternatives. The changes one by one make sense, but taken as a whole they greatly limit Mesmer build options. And Mesmers already lost Kylia’s glamour build. I fear this will push us even more into the cookie cutter 20/20/0/0/30.

Im not happy with the ic change but the new pu seems to be really good.Was testing it and at least a third of the time after coming out of stealth i still had 10 secs of protection left or more and thats just using decoy and only 30% boon duration

Does anyone else think that it’s weird that the Vengeful Images change was listed under the Dueling (Precision) section instead of Inspiration (Vitality) where it normally is?

Was that a mistake, or did it get moved?

Wow, major nerf for Mesmer, Illusion Celerity moved TO GRANDMASTER tier, even with the phantasm damage increase for pvp this is a killer. No longer can keep only 5 trait points in illusions and spend them where useful. Guest I’ll write off illusions trait tree now.

I’m not going to burst out in tears like the OP but I do feel the change was heavy-handed. I’m not upset that it got nerfed because it’s a very powerful and versatile skill with rooting being its only drawback. That being said, either the type change or the cooldown increase should have been tried first and then they should have waited to see if the other was necessary.

The only change I am not fully behind is the IC change. I agree that if Anet’s goal was to improve build diversity, making Illusionist’s Celerity the birthright of Shatter Mesmers and unavailable without significant investment to all other builds is the wrong way to fix the trait. I also agree that Anet didn’t do enough in this patch to improve Mesmer build diversity: it seems like they only focused (half-heartedly) on Interrupt and Condition builds, and I don’t feel the buffs are enough to make these builds competitive with Shatter or Phantasm builds.

(Also Staff Clone WoC Bleeding still lasts 2 less seconds that it should).

Its all good, nothing to cry about. IC is now a shatter exclusive skill and im fine with that. izerker fix feels,,, guuuuuuuud, so gud i don’t care about Blurred Frenzy nerf

I admire the patience it must have taken you to write this up.

In any case, I agree completely.

I agree with most of what you wrote but PU was a huge buff imo.Im just not sure i can make a decent build to utilize it.

Note i only do wvw and not spvp so it would be much harder to make one to use in wvw.

All these changes did was reconfirm the result I keep coming to when I try to do a different build. Which is, “Just spec 30 into Illusions.”

The whole line is basically a band-aid on poorly developed mechanics. Illusions are an unreliable resource? Get 20% CDR. Shatters are weak? Add confusion to them, give yourself the ability to shatter without illusions and vastly improve the low-end shatter effectiveness for 1-2 illusion shatters, on top of a 33% increase in shatter effectiveness at the top end.

My guess is Anet had Iberserker fixed long ago, and they were saving it for this patch to try to soften the blow.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Most professions were nerfed anyways. Out of the best professions in the game, only the guardian wasn’t.

Necros may be the new OP class.

selan.8354:

clones already die extreemly fast in wvw. now they will pop and die at the same time. ANET separate the kitten spv from wvw already!!!!!!!it absolutely makes no sense what soever to balance them the same way.

This. Clones will be dead the second they’re created.

I agree on most part, but i already place my feedback on the pvp forum on their mistake, on build diversity and interrupt build should go hand in hand with mantra but no the important skill are all over the place, u have to go 30/x/30/x/x for a full use of interrupt. Interrupt is lack luster with most skill having short cast time, instant, evasive and stability here and there. So unless they move mantra armor and the cooldown reduction to the mantra grandmaster traits and let mantra a way of removing some boons there no way interrupt build will work unless we can get deceptive evasive and the shatter remove boons on hit skill to help out, then interrupt build may work on mesmer.

Ouch is right….sceptor two was the thief killer for me. I hope torment does the trick on them now or it will become difficult for me to fight them.

This is a lot to absorb so I can’t tell how I feel about it. I’ll have to read through the other professions before I rule on this patch.

Good luck mesmers.

Well put Pyro. Thank you for putting in the time writing this up.

Completely agree. The one thing I’m unsure of is how this patch nerfed condition builds further. I’m just as upset (and insulted, frankly) as you are, but I’m curious what you see that nerfs conditions?

Rinzler.8072:

My guess is Anet had Iberserker fixed long ago, and they were saving it for this patch to try to soften the blow.

and its working lolz

Unless you spammed the skill, the two seconds will not be noticeable. The immunity to retaliation did seem a little overboard so I can understand the nerf to that aspect.

Zumi.6384:

Completely agree. The one thing I’m unsure of is how this patch nerfed condition builds further. I’m just as upset (and insulted, frankly) as you are, but I’m curious what you see that nerfs conditions?

The illusionists celerity nerf is the condition nerf. Most condition builds use a combination of clones + sharper images + debilitating dissipation to keep up condition pressure. Now, clone generating skills have 25% higher cooldowns unless you go 25 points into illusions, and most condition builds couldn’t afford that much without sacrificing one of the other important parts. This means that if condition builds want that cooldown to keep up the clone generation, they’ll need to sacrifice significantly in other ways.

not much of a nerf, be happy it isn’t on 15sec CD or more

Nuka Cola.8520:

not much of a nerf, be happy it isn’t on 15sec CD or more

Yes, ANet. Thank you for not kicking us harder.

Don’t forget the nerf to bleeds.

completely agree with you Pyro

The problem is that all this nerfs are actually good from a balance change perspective, but they leave Mesmers with too few alternatives. The changes one by one make sense, but taken as a whole they greatly limit Mesmer build options. And Mesmers already lost Kylia’s glamour build. I fear this will push us even more into the cookie cutter 20/20/0/0/30.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Zumi.6384:

Completely agree. The one thing I’m unsure of is how this patch nerfed condition builds further. I’m just as upset (and insulted, frankly) as you are, but I’m curious what you see that nerfs conditions?

The illusionists celerity nerf is the condition nerf. Most condition builds use a combination of clones + sharper images + debilitating dissipation to keep up condition pressure. Now, clone generating skills have 25% higher cooldowns unless you go 25 points into illusions, and most condition builds couldn’t afford that much without sacrificing one of the other important parts. This means that if condition builds want that cooldown to keep up the clone generation, they’ll need to sacrifice significantly in other ways.

An extra 2s on Phase Retreat isn’t a big deal, Staff Condition builds rely primarily on Deceptive Evasion for Clone generation anyway. The extra 8s on Decoy is probably more significant, but not for Clone generation reasons.

Most Staff Condition builds invest 20 into Illusions, an extra 5 to get IC if they want it is hardly a stretch. It isn’t that essential either.

Xavi.6591:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Most professions were nerfed anyways. Out of the best professions in the game, only the guardian wasn’t.

Necros may be the new OP class.

Elementalists.

I think my biggest frustration is the repetition of the supposed developer mantra of “bring professions up” rather than nerf them down. The prevailing practice has clearly been the opposite of this mindset, as we’ve seen significant handicaps applied to the majority of professions across the board. (With a few exceptions.)

Thank you for the patient and eloquent write-up, Pyro. Hopefully it doesn’t fall upon deaf ears!

Sinaya.4201:

Hopefully it doesn’t fall upon deaf ears!

Pffffffffh… funny you.

While I don’t feel this change was completely necessary, I think it is justified. Blurred Frenzy was a very powerful skill on a low CD, it still is. An extra 2s CD and taking Retaliation damage in no way makes the skill unviable.

… But really, I’m rather happy about this overall. If it means less Mesmers (despite the “nerfs” not being anything that major) then great.

i just wrote the same comment 3 times. 3 times te thread was moved…
so here goes.
i cant remember exaclty what i said due to me beingseriuosly mad now…

its like real life all over again!
people say they want to help me, but instead theyre just making it worse… theyre just making it worse… and theres nothing i can do about it…

i would say that whoever proposed these nerfs isnt getting away with this… but the truth is, i cant. arenanet overpowers me and i can do nothing about it, im asusming that even complaining on the forums wont solve it.. at one point i got the feeling they were listening. that feeling is gone now.

does arenanet even paly mesmer? they should honestly just let the players balance the game.. it would look much better.

if anything is overpowered, its arenanet’s nerf bat…

they said they were going to help us, to increase build diversity… MAKING IMPORTANT TRAITS GARBAGE IS NOT HOW YOU DO IT

imsorry for the caps lock, but simply typing in bold cant explain how mad/sad i am right now… if they dont give us alot of buffs to compensate or refert the nerfs… oh who am i kidding… i cant do anything about it.

“were increasing build diversity”, they said

cheers,
Alissah

Even on the other class threads about the recent patch changes people keep saying, “well at least it’s not as bad the mesmer nerfs”

At least there will be more reasons to auto-attack with a sword in pve. That conditional damage boost should affect 99% of the encounters. :P

Thanks for that write-up Pyro. You know the profession very well.

Build diversity or not ill still run the same build for pve, that is 10/5/0/25/30.
They failed to promote build diversity and they failed to buff our underwhelming skills (image, im really insulted about it). I waited this patch because i thought it was a good way to theorycraft, wrong.

It’s a shame they buried your well written formal complaint into a thread that will soon be 10 pages deep.

Agreed. But you can’t expect anything logical from anet anyway.

BUILD DIVERSITY MY KITTEN!!!!!!

Honestly, after playing around a little with the update, I think a lot of the worries are overblown, and that many of our (not unreasonable) gripes are simply a result of dealing with change. For all of our nerfs (IC, VI, BF), we’ve been given some nice new tools, not to mention bug fixes with bouncing, berserker, etc.

I was upset with the nerf to IC, but the more I think about it I pretty much always reverted to a near-unkillable phantasm build, and ignored things like torch, boon-stacking, might-stacking, interrupts. etc.. I also disagree that everyone will take 25 in illusions, and in fact this change now opens up a lot more hybrid play: phantasm/interrupt; might-stacking power/condition; gs/staff; and so forth.

The main problem I see is in regard to <80 mesmers. IC is pretty much requisite for levelling, however, and thus I don’t envy having to level a mesmer without what was the most important quality-of-life trait we had.

Tl;dr — We got hit most with a quality-of-life nerf in IC. This is annoying, but all change is annoying at first. I’m starting to see Anet’s thinking, however, and that no longer relying on pure phantasms will broaden our base of builds and require us to become better and more flexible players. But feel free to disagree…

I mostly agree, except I still think IC should’ve been removed. Its presence higher up in Illusions just further tips the balance towards that trait line, and only serves to restrict build diversity if anything.