Guild Wars 2

Our Competitive Events Manager, Josh Davis, shared the International All-Stars Tournament Info and all the European and N/A Candidates Profiles here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/International-All-Stars-Vote-Discussion/first

As you can see, the Mesmer is non-existent in the competitive scene for N/A Candidates, and only two out of the whole list of players from EU chose the Mesmer profession.

Balance?! That’s really something to seriously think about, right Josh?

The current Meta is like Warriors 120% – Guardians 110% – Ele – and more Ele? and then followed by Thief – Necromancer, Ranger/Engineer…

Where do Mesmers stand today? A sidekick? A utility bot? Are we really a trash tier class like some have already commented about the Mesmer?

Less nerfs, and more buffs please to bring the balance in line.

The data represented here truly speaks for the Meta in competitive game play today.

Competitive players are NOT stupid. They chose to play certain profession utilizing certain builds with respective itemization and gearing for one reason only:
They want to seal the victory for the team.

Any pro competitive player would go through the mindset of deciding what is the opportunity cost of bringing this profession over the others in a tournament.

#1. What are the advantages and disadvantages of choosing the Mesmer in a competitive tournament?

#2. How much loss over gain does the team has to bear for a Mesmer to have a spot on the team, instead of any other profession?

#3. How crucial is the role of Mesmer over the other 7 professions in a competitive tournament?

#4. How much of a difference CAN a Mesmer make in turning the tide for the team to seal its victory? How about Guardians in this case? (I deliberately ask for comparison to the role of Guardian in this specific question for a reason…)

We have our “answers” clear as day from the lists of candidates.

How do Mesmer players view such an event and realizing that we have very limited choices of candidates to give our support? I am on N/A, and I suppose I will give my support to the two EU candidates representing the Mesmer? or should I give support to every other professions other than my own on the N/A category? Does the Developers not seeing and understand the whole issue here?

Discuss.

I’m experiencing this same frustration after returning. When I played last, I actually could hold my own in sPvP, and felt pretty useless in WvW. At least I had sPvP to be proud of.

As of lately though, I’m getting seriously sick of the thief/ele dominance, mostly because I feel like they’re doing every role of the mesmer, but just 10x better.
Warriors/Guardians, sure, they’re annoying – but at least I can kill them sometimes and they aren’t always doing absurd amounts of damage.

Mesmers were a mess when the game came out. People can sit around and tout that Mesmer requires some hidden ancient knowledge and talent, but in reality – just looking at our abilities in comparison to some of the other classes is just a joke. Things that are basic and easy for one class, is a chore for the Mesmer and requires us to do very inconvenient or counter-intuitive to a specific build. One example, there’s no reason for Bountiful Disillusionment to be in our Chaos tree, which usually comprises of NON-shatter builds typically. And our reward for this supposed “high skill ceiling?” Being mediocre in comparison to ele/thief.
As for the other classes, I don’t notice Necro much – and rangers are relatively easy for me. Engineers can be a pain I guess, but if you just walk away from their turrets you’re usually OK.

Competitive should be the indicator of the serious problems with class balance in this game though. It’s getting ridiculously frustrating to continue playing the Mesmer.

Edit: Lets not forget that one of the key abilities on one of the Mesmer’s highest DPS output weapon works about 60% of the time.

yep and the core mechanic that kinda was supposed to work like hexes used to in gw1 , got nerfed by 50% and is now inflicetd better with other classes than the mesmer. but hey at least moa got fixed..erm or whatever they did to it….clapclapclap

The issue with what you’re saying is you’re limiting yourself to only the few people that were nominated for Games Con or the so-called ‘All Star Tournament’. For example EU, to Helseth and Anzi has Sensotix, Misha ect.
NA has Supcutie. I’m sure there are other mesmers there but I am unfamiliar with the NA ‘scene’.
This doesn’t mean that mesmers are lacking, they are, so are PvP players. There really isn’t a lot of people that play PvP compared to PvE and WvW.
A sidekick? An Utility bot? Are we really a trash tier class? Lol no.
The people who said this are clueless on what mesmer can do. Mesmer has portal which is an amazing utility, you have massive burst + boon rip which is AOE most of time time as mind wrack hits everyone around the clone also thus removing a boon from everyone around the clone.
Mesmer generally is a really, really good roamer. Not as good as thief in most cases. The difference between mesmer and thief is thief can go from point A to point B quicker than all classes, but mesmer can come to point B from point A and get back to point A before any other class and take someone with him. You also can come from point to point somewhat quick thanks to blink and phase retreat, faster than a lot of classes but thief still beats you unless you take traveler runes which will mean you loose out on DPS. This is okay for sPvP but not really recommended for tPvP
Even if we are nothing but a utility bot (which I strongly do not think we are) so what? Every class has a role and if you don’t like this one, then choose a different class.
@Half – By ‘highest DPS weapon’ you mean sword? I assume that because of the comment about how it works only 60% of the time. Why do you still use sword in PvP? Greatsword + Staff has always been a much better choice, and never so like after the sword nerf. Give it a shot. Also, greatsword has A LOT more DPS than sword.

Jurica.1742:

Every class has a role and if you don’t like this one, then choose a different class.

99% of players don’t want be a utility bot so then reroll to another classes. And I never heard about people rerolled to be a mesmer.

About those top mesmers:
Sometimes I meet one of them, but it is SoloQ and there he …suks. His high skill mesmer can do nothing vs meta semi afking bunker builds. So even at sPvP mesmer viable only at high tier tpvp. And again, it’s great not because of super concept of this class but because 1 utility (portal) and 1 trait (reaping boons).

Anton.1769:

Jurica.1742:

Every class has a role and if you don’t like this one, then choose a different class.

99% of players don’t want be a utility bot so then reroll to another classes. And I never heard about people rerolled to be a mesmer.

About those top mesmers:
Sometimes I meet one of them, but it is SoloQ and there he …suks. His high skill mesmer can do nothing vs meta semi afking bunker builds. So even at sPvP mesmer viable only at high tier tpvp. And again, it’s great not because of super concept of this class but because 1 utility (portal) and 1 trait (reaping boons).

agree with u.people still think our utility is that strong…well its not. and utilitybot is not fun at all. u deal no dmg, u get no loot, u are under constant pressure to put veils down which means u need to run upfront with the commander which is a deathzone and then all the utilities are on extreem cooldowns. so what u wanna do 90% of the fight?spam aa gs?
mesmer got broken when anet nerfed their core mechanics 1by one and left us with nothing but bugged ai pets.

Actually, in a “balanced” game without hard-coded roles, everyone is taken only for their utility. This is automatically given because all damage output has to be equal in all situations, as has to be the survivability. Hence what matters is the “flavour”, which usually falls to the utility skills.

“Utility bot” should be the balance goal for all classes, long-term.

Jurica.1742:

Even if we are nothing but a utility bot (which I strongly do not think we are) so what? Every class has a role and if you don’t like this one, then choose a different class.
@Half – By ‘highest DPS weapon’ you mean sword? I assume that because of the comment about how it works only 60% of the time. Why do you still use sword in PvP? Greatsword + Staff has always been a much better choice, and never so like after the sword nerf. Give it a shot. Also, greatsword has A LOT more DPS than sword.

I think the “60%” of the time was referring to iwarden and the focus.

Sword should be fixed so that it is on par with gs/staff. Sword does do more dps than GS, being a melee weapon, although GS allows you to kite much more easily in pvp and therefore deal damage more effectively in the long run because you can keep up the attack pressure – whereas with sword you have to constantly duck in and out of melee.

Sword+focus went from one of the best sets we had to mediocre. It’s not fair to say to someone just play gs+staff because it is better – or rather because there’s barely any choice in the matter…

@Anton
Mesmer is not a utility bot. Sure, we have great team utility and that’s part of why we’re taken in teams, but we have insane burst. (Crit damage did not change in PvP) and a lot of AOE boon strip which is really useful.
You guys are all being pessimistic. You can make things sound unneeded and stupid when you want to.
‘The world cup – 22 players running after a ball for 1,5 – 2 hours, so exciting!’
‘Guild Wars 2 – You press buttons for 10 hours a day’
The reason the top mesmers suck in sPvP is beacuse it’s friggin sPvP. Mesmer needs a proper team to function well. Mesmer isn’t the class that will stand on point or carry a team. It’s not what the class is made for. That’s like forcing a bunker to be a roamer. It will suck bad because it isn’t made to be a roamer. Like trying to run GW2 on a 1999 PC. It will not be able to do that.
Also, a good mesmer like Helseth could probably carry a team in sPvP but he doesn’t want to.
I talked to Helseth about this exact thing and he told me that he never tries to carry a team. That after the game is done, if he lost or not, if he played well, made little to no mistakes, rotated properly – he is happy. It’s a team game. If you have a bad team, you will loose and you can’t do much against 5 people. A big part of playing mesmer right is communicating with your team to know where you’re needed. Without that, you can try to rotate properly but maybe the guy you went to will have no issue with the 1v1 and there is a 1v1 going on a different point where your friend appears to be fine but really is having a hard time. You have little to no communication with your team in sPvP simply because you can’t really type much.
@selan
As I said before, we’re not a utility bot. There is way more to it. This post applies to WvW I suppose and things are different there. This is a PvP discussion. If you don’t like being a ‘utility bot’ and getting little to no loot reroll to a guardian and spam 1 the entire time you’re in a zerg. You can also use Pyroatheists zergmower build. It works great. I think it should still work. I’ll also draw the line from GW1. Monk. You didn’t do much damage yet still, people played it a lot.
@Curunen
If you run focus, you run sword as well.
Sword will NEVER be as good as greatsword. Simply because of DPS uptime as you mentioned.
Which means… When you want to go in melee range and autoattack with sword, you will get hit by cleave, AOE and will be so much easier to get meaning you will die often. That 15 seconds that you need to respawn + another 5-10 to get back into the fight you could of been doing ranged damage with greatsword. You’re on a high ground, a thief jumps you, jump down, he follows you, phase retreat up, it will take him time to get back up, you jump back down, he goes down, you go up and you can keep trolling him like that. vs. If you’re on point, you pop distortion and are screwed after it’s over unless your team peels for you which, unless you’re on TS3 with them they most likely will not do. Mesmer + melee does not go well together in PvP, in WvW it isn’t too good and in PvE it’s okay, anything is.
It is wrong, but it is just how things are right now. Not much we can do about it.

mesmers actually are just utility bots because outside of their fringe uses they’re complete trash at everything else

Jurica.1742:

@Anton
A big part of playing mesmer right is communicating with your team to know where you’re needed. Without that, you can try to rotate properly but maybe the guy you went to will have no issue with the 1v1 and there is a 1v1 going on a different point where your friend appears to be fine but really is having a hard time. You have little to no communication with your team in sPvP simply because you can’t really type much.

So you agree with me if you haven’t high skill pvp team with good communication – your mesmer is useless.
+Don’t forget with communication and good team all classes are shine. But this is sweet addition to other classes while for mesmer this is strong need.

Anton.1769:

So you agree with me if you haven’t high skill pvp team with good communication – your mesmer is useless.
+Don’t forget with communication and good team all classes are shine. But this is sweet addition to other classes while for mesmer this is strong need.

Yes, I agree, well.. partially. Your team doesn’t have to be a high skill or good communication. You just need to have a team that isn’t filled with all legendary guardians that pick their nose off point. They need to know what their job is and do it decently and when they need your help in a fight to be able to tell you’ Hey man, come over to Quarry, I have a issue with this ele, I can’t beat him, I’ll loose the point.’ and then you burst him together and you win the point. All you need to do is be is remotely coordinated to make mesmer work great.
Any class in a kittenty team won’t work well and will shine in good teams. Not just mesmer. If you have a good mesmer in a good team vs. a team with the same comp, skill level, but some other class other than mesmer. Unless the other class is thief, the mesmer team will win for sure. A proper mesmer brings so much more to a team in terms of DPS and utility than almost any other class. If we had proper defense against burst damage (which according to a somewhat recent ReadyUp episode, we will soon) I’d say that we would even beat a team with a thief.

Jurica.1742:

If you have a good mesmer in a good team vs. a team with the same comp, skill level, but some other class other than mesmer. Unless the other class is thief, the mesmer team will win for sure.

1 problem – almost all good team have thieves.

A proper mesmer brings so much more to a team in terms of DPS and utility than almost any other class.

staff ele can promote much more DPS to big area with more surviability.

Any class in a kittenty team won’t work well and will shine in good teams

If I won’t win at SoloQ I just pick engie and go far. There with 95% success i kill any at 1×1. 50% of winning 1×2. So even if my team full of kittens they still will win 4×3 at other point. With that I want tell this game very far from balance and mesmer is at the bottom of this balance.

@Jurica – yeah I know why it doesn’t work well anymore, you don’t need to explain to me.

Melee uses to work much better than it does now in pvp – when blurred frenzy was invuln, mind spike did not have reduced damage when removing a boon and ileap was more useable than it is now. Nevermind when into the void had no ICD and iwarden worked all the time. More that I probably forget to mention.

GS+staff was a weird, niche set, which has only taken centre stage because everything else is not good enough anymore. Staff + sword/focus was a great set.

What I’m saying is sword was “better” or rather more favourable than GS – but now that both sword and focus have been kittened sideways that is no longer the case.

Mesmer melee is in the state it’s in now thanks to some crude nerfing decisions, which for me is not acceptable.

Anton.1769:

Jurica.1742:

Every class has a role and if you don’t like this one, then choose a different class.

99% of players don’t want be a utility bot so then reroll to another classes. And I never heard about people rerolled to be a mesmer.

About those top mesmers:
Sometimes I meet one of them, but it is SoloQ and there he …suks. His high skill mesmer can do nothing vs meta semi afking bunker builds. So even at sPvP mesmer viable only at high tier tpvp. And again, it’s great not because of super concept of this class but because 1 utility (portal) and 1 trait (reaping boons).

I call bullkitten.

ask every high end tpvp mermers ``If u play another class with same skillfullness, would u be better efficient to your team``

and if it is Yes so there is something wrong with class then..
———————
as how is the meta now in competitive large scale groups in wvw..
both other classes and mesmer say the same thing.. they would choose it for only veil.. and u ll see that in some time later exp competitive gvg guilds as well stop use veil boters + withoutveil mesmers..

for the win..

The Mesmer class is not really in a good position in tPvP, WvW or even PvE at the moment. It is stagnated due to nerfs, bugs and some other classes becoming much more viable. I’m starting to play my Mesmer (main since launch) less and less these days, especially in WvW.

And I just crafted bolt for it, because Mesmer is the way to go and is not in a bad position in any of the gamemodes.

Thrown out of the PVE dungeon meta, extremely fringe in the PvP meta, relegated to veil duty since forever in wvw. Mesmer is complete trash and I can’t believe I sold 2000g worth of strength runes while they were a lot cheaper to craft mine. It’s literally a piece of **** class that leeches off everyone else’s success.

maha.7902:

Thrown out of the PVE dungeon meta, extremely fringe in the PvP meta, relegated to veil duty since forever in wvw. Mesmer is complete trash and I can’t believe I sold 2000g worth of strength runes while they were a lot cheaper to craft mine. It’s literally a piece of **** class that leeches off everyone else’s success.

but tell me how you really feel, colesy

I feel like anet should just be done with it and delete the class because it’s so bad. It’s literally dead weight everywhere no matter how well you play it.

maha.7902:

Thrown out of the PVE dungeon meta, extremely fringe in the PvP meta, relegated to veil duty since forever in wvw. Mesmer is complete trash and I can’t believe I sold 2000g worth of strength runes while they were a lot cheaper to craft mine. It’s literally a piece of **** class that leeches off everyone else’s success.

Then what the hell are you doing on these forums if it’s all in such crap?
I’m sick of all this forum whining!
This class is a lot of fun and it can still work very well, just because you may not like that people like the class because of veil or some other kitten doesn’t mean the class is kitten. Don’t play it if you don’t like and stop posting here.
All this whining is counterproductive. People won’t play mesmer because everyone on forums says the class is kitten, the amount of mesmers will decrease and Anet will just stop caring about mesmer. (I know I’ll get flamed for this part) This class does have issues, but it isn’t in such kitten like you guys say it is!
It’s perfectly fine in PvE, the sword ‘fix’ did not effect the s/s + s/f mesmer at all. iLeap is almost never used in PvE.
WvW – We are great for utility, we lack AOE, so what? PU condi, PU power, staff + gs shatter, staff + gs lockdown are all great for roaming.
PvP – Helseth, Misha, Sensotix, Supcutie…
I’m done with forums..

I enjoy Mesmer? But it doesn’t mean the class is any good. It’s not perfectly fine in pve, it’s dps is outright abysmal in practical situations and they are just not wanted by decent groups, lacking aoe potential in wvw where aoe is outright crucial is an enormous deficiency, and throw the names of random PvP ers I don’t even give a kitten about around, but mesmers are still trash. This is like me saying oh, well sanderinoa is a good pve Mesmer, but it doesn’t mean the class doesn’t suck just because someone can play it – it’s not even worth taking mesmers to arah which was like the last dungeon they were considered decent for, you’re better off taking a guard. Maybe if anet see a drop in Mesmer play they’ll actually do something with it, the class has just been ignored or nerfed up until now so it’s not like anything we’ve done before has helped in any way. If anyone wants to know how to play Mesmer, despite having wrote a guide for the class in the past I’ll just forward them now to the re roll build because it’s not fair advising someone to play a class scorned in every single game format.

Jurica.1742:

maha.7902:

Thrown out of the PVE dungeon meta, extremely fringe in the PvP meta, relegated to veil duty since forever in wvw. Mesmer is complete trash and I can’t believe I sold 2000g worth of strength runes while they were a lot cheaper to craft mine. It’s literally a piece of **** class that leeches off everyone else’s success.

Then what the hell are you doing on these forums if it’s all in such crap?
I’m sick of all this forum whining!
This class is a lot of fun and it can still work very well, just because you may not like that people like the class because of veil or some other kitten doesn’t mean the class is kitten. Don’t play it if you don’t like and stop posting here.
All this whining is counterproductive. People won’t play mesmer because everyone on forums says the class is kitten, the amount of mesmers will decrease and Anet will just stop caring about mesmer. (I know I’ll get flamed for this part) This class does have issues, but it isn’t in such kitten like you guys say it is!
It’s perfectly fine in PvE, the sword ‘fix’ did not effect the s/s + s/f mesmer at all. iLeap is almost never used in PvE.
WvW – We are great for utility, we lack AOE, so what? PU condi, PU power, staff + gs shatter, staff + gs lockdown are all great for roaming.
PvP – Helseth, Misha, Sensotix, Supcutie…
I’m done with forums..

just whanna quote something from Supcutie : "As a concluding thought, currently I do play thief in competitively play. It’s statistically a better choice than mesmer. " from https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/mesmer-versus-thief

so yeah mesmer is such in a great place……LoL

Jurica.1742:

maha.7902:

Thrown out of the PVE dungeon meta, extremely fringe in the PvP meta, relegated to veil duty since forever in wvw. Mesmer is complete trash and I can’t believe I sold 2000g worth of strength runes while they were a lot cheaper to craft mine. It’s literally a piece of **** class that leeches off everyone else’s success.

Then what the hell are you doing on these forums if it’s all in such crap?
I’m sick of all this forum whining!
This class is a lot of fun and it can still work very well, just because you may not like that people like the class because of veil or some other kitten doesn’t mean the class is kitten. Don’t play it if you don’t like and stop posting here.
All this whining is counterproductive. People won’t play mesmer because everyone on forums says the class is kitten, the amount of mesmers will decrease and Anet will just stop caring about mesmer. (I know I’ll get flamed for this part) This class does have issues, but it isn’t in such kitten like you guys say it is!
It’s perfectly fine in PvE, the sword ‘fix’ did not effect the s/s + s/f mesmer at all. iLeap is almost never used in PvE.
WvW – We are great for utility, we lack AOE, so what? PU condi, PU power, staff + gs shatter, staff + gs lockdown are all great for roaming.
PvP – Helseth, Misha, Sensotix, Supcutie…
I’m done with forums..

Chill, no need to go down that route.

Yes there are still a few “viable” builds, but this class is held up on a knife edge, namely:
- PU (the trait specifically, which is still one of the few things that does need the boons toned down)
- phase retreat
- shattered concentration
- portal
- veil

In my opinion that is all that is keeping things supported to compete on the same platform as other classes. Remove any one of those things and then we are objectively inferior.

There is not good build diversity at the moment – and unless it is discussed on the forums nothing will happen. Nothing may happen for a long time anyway, but that’s beside the point.

@Jurica Pls! give me a favor and instead let me to write things again, there is fresh post from me which fits u.. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Please-stop-comparing-across-professions/4209601 and continuing post in there..

TL;DR = It is about productivity..
No rice no power.. ohh dam sorry! :P Knowladge is power!!! + check my signature..
Being scrub is different from competitive..
Escaping/being silent sometimes best thing to do.. understandable.. so GL&HF

Who cares, honestly?

Yeah Mesmer is in a bad place, and thats why a few of these tear-filled threads are good to make sure the devs notice, but how many of you here play the class for a statistical advantage over other classes?

…

Exactly. We play the class because it’s fun, everything else is noise.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Who cares, honestly?

Yeah Mesmer is in a bad place, and thats why a few of these tear-filled threads are good to make sure the devs notice, but how many of you here play the class for a statistical advantage over other classes?

…

Exactly. We play the class because it’s fun, everything else is noise.

Yes, I certainly play because it’s the most fun and I enjoy the flavour, not for a stat advantage.

However when there is a definite statistical disadvantage with all but a few builds, you have to question what is going on.

Edit: for the record, I will continue to play sword+torch shatter through this tunnel and come out the other side, despite being inferior to gs/staff, because I enjoy it the most.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Who cares, honestly?

Yeah Mesmer is in a bad place, and thats why a few of these tear-filled threads are good to make sure the devs notice, but how many of you here play the class for a statistical advantage over other classes?

…

Exactly. We play the class because it’s fun, everything else is noise.

When by playing one, our group is basically 4.5-manning a dungeon, well let’s just say I don’t like leeching. Wvw veil botting was extremely unsatisfying too. So who cares? Judging by the state of the subforum, a lot of people.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Who cares, honestly?

Exactly. We play the class because it’s fun, everything else is noise.

:S i didint get it excatly..
it means,
A) There is not much have any play spec left except *Fun. (mesmer cant be competitive class anymore instead of fun/fan/obsessed/role playing/experimental specs) because meta ll not change?
B) or it meaned directly? (we are scrubs and talking through one’s hat)
C) others

edit: Describing my FUN

• Fun: Scrub = not playing for win!

example, my ele: in wvw he is farmer, IGN: Holy Scrub

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Who cares, honestly?

Yeah Mesmer is in a bad place, and thats why a few of these tear-filled threads are good to make sure the devs notice, but how many of you here play the class for a statistical advantage over other classes?

…

Exactly. We play the class because it’s fun, everything else is noise.

But what is fun?

Winning is fun. But playing Mesmer provides a disadvantage compared to playing other classes at a similar skill level. That means you’ll win less, which isn’t fun.

You can have fun without winning though. Contributing to your group in a meaningful way can be fun. Being a significant part of a larger whole can be fun. However, can ‘veil in front’ truly be described as significant? I can’t personally call it as such anymore.

It can be fun to hide in a keep and ninjaportal for it, but that’s a rare situation more dictated by enemy incompetence than your personal skill in playing.

Some people find pve fun. I’m not one of those people. Additionally, pve happens to be where some of the worst Mesmer bugs are highlighted and brought front and center, making it go from a merely un-fun experience to a truly and massively aggravating one.

So where is the fun in playing Mesmer? I can’t find it anymore.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Who cares, honestly?

Yeah Mesmer is in a bad place, and thats why a few of these tear-filled threads are good to make sure the devs notice, but how many of you here play the class for a statistical advantage over other classes?

…

Exactly. We play the class because it’s fun, everything else is noise.

Exactly. Mesmer players are people who like mesmer playstile(clons, blinks, butterflies). If people will borring with that things – noone will play this class.
NOONE rolled, roll or will roll to mesmer due to his “OP at pvp/machine of death at WvW etc”. Often I hear mesmer is high risk high reward. But it is high risk kitten reward.

Fay.2357:

So where is the fun in playing Mesmer? I can’t find it anymore.

Exploiting mesmer’s strengths to their maximum potential, and then laugh at other classes that actually have to work to achieve the same. Strengths in PvE:

• Reflect uptime
• Active defense

Besides those two… not much left.

It’s not really that hard to maintain reflect as a guard, and every class makes use of active defense. The only strength they have is untrained wardens and that’s as simple as switching a trait off then chaining phantasms.

Look at the bright side – at least we get to feel unique on the battlefield. Mesmers are beginning to be such a rarity they’re even being appreciated. Its not uncommon to see that 30 man zerg run inside a keep with 30 people stuck outside going “omg where is portal we need portal wtf no one is a mesmer?!”. That’s when you can become a hero

I for one still love playing my Mesmer. I love the playstyle and I love the in-your-face-butterfly-explosion action even when engaging in combat.

That said, I dont play competitive PvP, I know my limitations and its not hard to see the limits of the Mesmer. For high end competition… its simply a broken class. Alone, a Mesmer is utterly worthless (you’re not like Ranger… You’re like the Rangers pet). With all clones/phantasms out… their AI is worthless. I honestly cant even begin to count the number of times my clones have failed me.

Today for example – 2vs2. Two Mesmers (me and a buddy) vs a Warrior and Guardian. They tried to gank my buddy when I was away, but I managed to return and stealth res him then we turned the tables. They where good throughout the fight (must have lasted 5 minutes or so), but we had the upper hand. When the Guardian was down to 10% HP, I was going in for the kill, I do iLeap and… the clone stop dead 1m from me because the Guardian was a little bit uphill. No way to reach him, blink was on cooldown. Short while later, the Guardian was back at 60%+ HP of course. I could have downed him, but no. The clone didnt work.

And that’s why the Mesmer will never ever be competetive unless Anet perform extensive fixes. Which doesnt seem likely to happen.

Mesmer is abysmally bad compared to my necro in open world.

I love my mesmer and stuff, but we have one setup left for PvE (phantasm) and it fails in matters of DPS and utility in open world.

On my necro, I can play DS, non-DS-power build, minion or even condition, and I will still clear everything faster than with a phantasm mesmer.

People should face the truth, the mesmer profession in its current incarnation is just bad.

Could you mesmers take a look at others classes? Necromancer in top tier? Don’t make me laugh… You guys have !3! Mesmers, while there are 1 ranger and necro. And necro is together with ranger by far the most lacklusteress classes.

What I meant is that despite the infraction-to-ban-worthy list of complaints I have about the game, I haven’t found a reason to abandon the class yet.

In PvP, I win more on Mesmer than I do on Elementalist, Thief, or Guardian because I’m better with the class. I don’t want to learn to go deeper into the other classes because their mechanics aren’t as fun as the Mesmer. Despite the nerfs I can still succeed the way I always have, I still enjoy trying out different builds, I still have a good time washing up baddies with my friends and for me that’s where my fun comes in.

I feel the problems with the game hold the class back more than the class itself. Confusion being nerfed, lameish dungeons, ect.

Fay.2357:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Who cares, honestly?

Yeah Mesmer is in a bad place, and thats why a few of these tear-filled threads are good to make sure the devs notice, but how many of you here play the class for a statistical advantage over other classes?

…

Exactly. We play the class because it’s fun, everything else is noise.

But what is fun?

Winning is fun. But playing Mesmer provides a disadvantage compared to playing other classes at a similar skill level. That means you’ll win less, which isn’t fun.

You can have fun without winning though. Contributing to your group in a meaningful way can be fun. Being a significant part of a larger whole can be fun. However, can ‘veil in front’ truly be described as significant? I can’t personally call it as such anymore.

It can be fun to hide in a keep and ninjaportal for it, but that’s a rare situation more dictated by enemy incompetence than your personal skill in playing.

Some people find pve fun. I’m not one of those people. Additionally, pve happens to be where some of the worst Mesmer bugs are highlighted and brought front and center, making it go from a merely un-fun experience to a truly and massively aggravating one.

So where is the fun in playing Mesmer? I can’t find it anymore.

exactly!thats the issue. i kepts trying new builds and new stuff after all the nerfs and always tried to have fun with it still. but with other classes receiving major buffs while mes still was trying to find viable builds(especially in wvw), the fun slowly disappeared. in wvw its not about winning 1v1’s for me its fun to be able to deal dmg to mutliple targets while supporting your server. mes used to be awesome on wvw!omg i couldnt wait to log on every day after work id be right online for wvw raids and epic battles
but after glam nerf…and all the balance changes, GWEN became a thing and mes simply cant keep up with it. we cant deal aoe dmg anymore, we can barely survive in the massive cc spams, we barely get loot and it doesnt feel like im contributing anything to the battle apart from veil.

well ive moved on to spvp and tpvp and i used to still find fun, but even there with other classes getting buffs and mes getting nothing, the fun is slowly but surely gone. making a build and choosing utility that could be useful is more and more becoming a pain. on my guard, id be oh this utility o no that one ..oh man why cant i take them all?!?!? on mes its more erm, well nope not useful in spvp, doesnt work properly, is a useless skill, oh well i might go to my usual ones. fun for me is to play a game how i want to with the class i have chosen. so if i wanna go raid, i want viable aoe like build options, if i wanna 1v1 and roam i wanna have different viable builds suiting my playstyle. in spvp there should be way more build diversity aswell.
in spvp i’d say its not because we are up as mes is good in small encounters, but other classes got buffed and we didnt since glamnerf! now in spvp the aoe spam is there too and cc spam and condi spam. mes has no aoe, cc is kinda meh on mes and condi has been nerfed to the ground… yes, thief doesent have much aoe either, but then again thief has a lot of fun little tools that can hit hard.

i think its time to rework this class as certain nerfs left the class hanging in the air. u cant just take away all core mechanics and only leave us with bugged ai pets and then stating this was a ranged 1v1 class… thats not even a class.we need non ai aoe, we need all our buggs fixed, we need new build options, we need new and reworked traits, we need unnerfs, we need a clear role (which used to be punishing,), we need skills reworked, we need skills replaced and we need build diversity. then it could be fun again.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Mesmer is abysmally bad compared to my necro in open world.

I love my mesmer and stuff, but we have one setup left for PvE (phantasm) and it fails in matters of DPS and utility in open world.

On my necro, I can play DS, non-DS-power build, minion or even condition, and I will still clear everything faster than with a phantasm mesmer.

People should face the truth, the mesmer profession in its current incarnation is just bad.

yes, i have switched to necro aswell. i play power necro in wvw raids and omg hello i got dmg, i go aoe omg and i dont even need to use minions if i dont want to. yay no ai!!! even in pvp i started using my necro.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

What I meant is that despite the infraction-to-ban-worthy list of complaints I have about the game, I haven’t found a reason to abandon the class yet.

In PvP, I win more on Mesmer than I do on Elementalist, Thief, or Guardian because I’m better with the class. I don’t want to learn to go deeper into the other classes because their mechanics aren’t as fun as the Mesmer. Despite the nerfs I can still succeed the way I always have, I still enjoy trying out different builds, I still have a good time washing up baddies with my friends and for me that’s where my fun comes in.

I feel the problems with the game hold the class back more than the class itself. Confusion being nerfed, lameish dungeons, ect.

It’s nothing to do with the game, it’s to do with the class. Classes being reliant on pets is already a recipe for disaster, and having literally half your damage come from squishy pets which both have a second cast time and die from someone looking at them funny is what makes them complete trash for dungeons. Pet classes suck in large scale wvw too. PvP well I dunno enough about it nor care enough about it, but I can’t imagine they’re good for anything besides portal tricks like dropping one, getting repair kit then porting back to the treb or things like that.

Jurica.1742:

maha.7902:

Thrown out of the PVE dungeon meta, extremely fringe in the PvP meta, relegated to veil duty since forever in wvw. Mesmer is complete trash and I can’t believe I sold 2000g worth of strength runes while they were a lot cheaper to craft mine. It’s literally a piece of **** class that leeches off everyone else’s success.

Then what the hell are you doing on these forums if it’s all in such crap?
I’m sick of all this forum whining!
This class is a lot of fun and it can still work very well, just because you may not like that people like the class because of veil or some other kitten doesn’t mean the class is kitten. Don’t play it if you don’t like and stop posting here.
All this whining is counterproductive. People won’t play mesmer because everyone on forums says the class is kitten, the amount of mesmers will decrease and Anet will just stop caring about mesmer. (I know I’ll get flamed for this part) This class does have issues, but it isn’t in such kitten like you guys say it is!
It’s perfectly fine in PvE, the sword ‘fix’ did not effect the s/s + s/f mesmer at all. iLeap is almost never used in PvE.
WvW – We are great for utility, we lack AOE, so what? PU condi, PU power, staff + gs shatter, staff + gs lockdown are all great for roaming.
PvP – Helseth, Misha, Sensotix, Supcutie…
I’m done with forums..

Ummm… what? iLeap is still important in PVE and I use it often, well when it works..

@chaos u mean mesmer is viable with your subjective/personal describtion of FUN..

We are not talking Subjective things.. Our arguments is from Objective things..

We are not talking about Player’s mesmer class… We are judging Mesmer Class it self..

Or let me give example as this.. We are not crying for beatiful colored expansive popular shoes.. While we have rag and tatter shoes.. We are crying for cant walking or runing as others while we both in the same line.. it was not our choose while we could spend our precious time on others ant it will not cry us as this..
Topic is productivity/effectfulness-efficient

Do u think did i enjoy/fun with that? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b-OKwDp-TYM
U see that i won duel 1vs4 with mesmer but not fair match
All were in fights witme constantly there is no one by one or duels..
But i cant judge personally them../respect it could have done me as well..
i usedthat spec just forcouple days test mode and it was my first solo experiment

So as u say kind of quotes.. So give my all precious time back, cuz i risked some things in my real life in reward of FUN from gw2 mesmer.. And golds/gems for this class.. i am remorse with being mesmer anymore.. Cuz i believed anet.. But they did.. As one of mother can give advice to her daughter as, show but not let it touched..(probably i couldnt yranslated it )

Risk/reward is my thing..
As i risked all other classes to play mesmer, but rewarded with being veil botting..

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Who cares, honestly?

Yeah Mesmer is in a bad place, and thats why a few of these tear-filled threads are good to make sure the devs notice, but how many of you here play the class for a statistical advantage over other classes?

…

Exactly. We play the class because it’s fun, everything else is noise.

Well… Yes, but there’s 1 problem: How am I supposed to have fun if there’s no change in the meta for 1year+ and all they do is nerf the builds I’m playing and slightly buff totally useless builds to make them slightly less useless? I actually suffer really hard from the ileap patch. Sure I can still run shatter, but I get annoyed almost every 20 seconds that I’m either wasting time or that I can’t use the skill I was using it for over 1 year. So kinda, there’s no point for me to go WvW besides roaming at the moment. There’s no point in PvE because all mesmer does there is spam 1, 4 and feedback while being weaker than most classes and then there is soloq where you have to wait 10 minutes for 1 game of 10 minutes. I like soloq, but that’s only because I cba about losing there, not because mesmer is so super viable there…

There are many issues with our profession. I’m sure the developers see it too, at least I hope so. One of the biggest problems that I see at hand is succeeding in a group, even if we have utility, we still lack specific structures other professions bring and that’s something we need desperately.

Like many, I’ve put my heart and time into playing the profession. I enjoy testing and playing with the different builds people have created, as well as some of my own. I haven’t put this much time into any other profession, because I can’t. I have fun playing the Mesmer, whether it’s neglected or not.

I’m surviving, but there’s no reason for me to give up, if I’ve come this far with it.

Blackdevil/doiid what build type did they buf?

Notimik.3589:

Blackdevil/doiid what build type did they buf?

The reroll build

this guy speaks the truth

maha.7902:

this guy speaks the truth

I betrayed the reroll build tho, back to sources. (._.)

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Notimik.3589:

Blackdevil/doiid what build type did they buf?

The reroll build

I tried this build but it was much too powerful and I had to go back to my previous build.

Just didn’t feel right being that powerful.