Guild Wars 2

Now, is it just me or are those complaining about the changes to Mesmers running a Glass Cannon build?
It can’t be just me who has noticed.

I run a Condition Bunker build (See here >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPaiEXhe_1M ) with a Staff and Scepter/Pistol, since the patch I’ve swapped pistol out for Torch and have yet to go back to pistol in fights I know are going to be AoE heavy.
I’ve hardly noticed the ‘Nerf’ all the other Mesmers are crying about.

Portal – I never used this anyway. Blink is far better in my opinion, no need to set it up before a fight and no chance of it failing due to ticking over its first cooldown.

Moa Morph – I’m glad it’s been changed from an iWin button to a “I have hindered you” skill. Usable underwater can help make escape easy, pop it on an enemy player as you reach land and they’ll be a tuna for 10 seconds, rendering them unable to get onto dry land letting you get a 10 second head start on running away.

Phants now cast as normal attacks – A needed change. People keep crying about how Phantasms are a part of our class and by making them miss or get blocked (and need LoS) they’ve essentially made our core mechanic blockable. Uh… Hello? If you dodge roll away from Hundred Blades, a melee based attack, you have just avoided a Warriors core mechanic (melee burst). If you leave the Meteor Storm area, you’ve just ruined an Elementalists Core Mechanic. This change was needed, we are now on par with every other class.

Torch Buffs – Love it. Put a torch on last night, never looked back at my pistol. The burst from TP is great, the 3 stacks of confusion mean I can keep a target confused for half the fight without needing to use Confusing Images or Cry of Frustration. I’ll probably swap to Pistol in smaller fights, but as a Commander in WvW, I’m always leading a zerg into another zerg. The Priestage has made that all the more fun!

There’s been a nerf to burst damage as a whole, thieves are finding their backstab hitting for 3k less, GS mesmers are finding iBeserker is doing feeble damage, etc.
For us Mesmers, iBeserker applies secondary effects. You use that to slow down an enemy to stop people running away or to prevent yourself from being kited. The damage it gives is a bonus.
It’s like if Hundred Blades applied bleed and vulnerability every time it made contact. Damage had to be lowered to balance the secondary effects it applied. It’ll still ruin someone who ignores it, but at a slower rate.
It missing is likely a bug, but I think the damage was intended.

So it’s not the end of the World for Mesmers. Stop crying over fixes, the game is new and they have other things to worry about such as Necromancers being a broken mess.

If I want a condition bunker build I’ll roll a necro.

I play mesmer for the greatsword.

And no, I don’t play glass cannon, I play a well-rounded support build focusing on anti-projectile, kiting, and lockdown, and this patch HURTS me badly.

The berzerker issue is not even the tip of the iceberg.

These toolsheds seem to forget phantasms are far more than just damage for mesmers:

They’re a source of group buffs like regeneration and group utilities like projectile block/reflect.

They’re a fully-fledged resource used for utility spells like distortion and diversion.

These toolshed devs who took over for the REAL mesmer dev on holiday decided it would be perfectly ok for anything that blinds or evades to gut our core class mechanics and resources, and cost us a minimum of 1 attack and 2 utility spells for each evasion, block, invulnerability, or blind, and to make it impossible in PVE to put up one of our most potent projectile reflects while the target is invulnerable.

plasmacutter.2709:

If I want a condition bunker build I’ll roll a necro.

I play mesmer for the greatsword.

And no, I don’t play glass cannon, I play a well-rounded support build focusing on anti-projectile, kiting, and lockdown, and this patch HURTS me badly.

The berzerker issue is not even the tip of the iceberg.

These toolsheds seem to forget phantasms are far more than just damage for mesmers:

They’re a source of group buffs like regeneration and group utilities like projectile block/reflect.

They’re a fully-fledged resource used for utility spells like distortion and diversion.

These toolshed devs who took over for the REAL mesmer dev on holiday decided it would be perfectly ok for anything that blinds or evades to gut our core class mechanics and resources, and cost us a minimum of 1 attack and 2 utility spells for each evasion, block, invulnerability, or blind, and to make it impossible in PVE to put up one of our most potent projectile reflects while the target is invulnerable.

I am in the same boat and to make it worse I am 2/3 finished with the crap for my legendary greatsword for my Mesmer. If they are going to do broad sweeping changes to classes then they need to revert back to GW1 and not have weapon type linked to the skills used.

plasmacutter.2709:

If I want a condition bunker build I’ll roll a necro.

I play mesmer for the greatsword.

And no, I don’t play glass cannon, I play a well-rounded support build focusing on anti-projectile, kiting, and lockdown, and this patch HURTS me badly.

The berzerker issue is not even the tip of the iceberg.

These toolsheds seem to forget phantasms are far more than just damage for mesmers:

They’re a source of group buffs like regeneration and group utilities like projectile block/reflect.

They’re a fully-fledged resource used for utility spells like distortion and diversion.

These toolshed devs who took over for the REAL mesmer dev on holiday decided it would be perfectly ok for anything that blinds or evades to gut our core class mechanics and resources, and cost us a minimum of 1 attack and 2 utility spells for each evasion, block, invulnerability, or blind, and to make it impossible in PVE to put up one of our most potent projectile reflects while the target is invulnerable.

See that Necromancer AoE that applies conditions? See how its a good resource for damaging multiple targets and acts as a class mechanic? See how Null Field shreds it apart rending it useless?

Every class BUT the Mesmer could have their “core mechanic” countered.
And if you’re running a GS Mesmer for “anti-projectile, kiting, and lockdown” then why the heck are you complaining about an iZerker damage nerf?

Me and the other 3 Mesmers who can’t find frigs to give about this patch don’t like Bowling. We prefer Butterfly watching.

In W3 run GS & S / F phantasm build with mostly knights gear. Pretty far from glass cannon seeing as Toughness is pretty much my most dominant stat.

The nerf hurts me, arguably, more than glass cannons because my damage wasn’t exactly stunning to begin with. Now I’m just feeling like an ineffective bunker build where previously I could win a battle of attrition with Zerker spike damage and clever play.

Whilst a CB build may still be a viable option, so too should be a glass cannon and as players we should have the ability to play the builds we want and not have the powers that be, nerf it in to oblivion.

TheRamosOnline.2670:

See that Necromancer AoE that applies conditions? See how its a good resource for damaging multiple targets and acts as a class mechanic? See how Null Field shreds it apart rending it useless?

See that 30 second cooldown? See that it’s only availalble to mesmer, see how it’s not handed out like candy like dodge, block, blind, LOS, and invulnerability?

See how until stairs, tiny cracks in the terrain, posts, blind, dodge, and block are made just as rare, this is a specious comparison?

Every class BUT the Mesmer could have their “core mechanic” countered.

Except there was no patch which handed EVERYONE about 6 different ways to “counter” anyone else’s core mechanic. “counter” is also too weak a word. I believe the phrase is “permanently nullify”. Mesmers are not the tankiest class, but even in my build I can chain evasion ridiculously. Let’s think about what a guardian or a thief could do?

And if you’re running a GS Mesmer for “anti-projectile, kiting, and lockdown” then why the heck are you complaining about an iZerker damage nerf?

I’m setting aside the iSerker nerf. I’m talking about the clone generation nerf which is MUCH worse, though deceptively so.

I agree that all builds need to be viable and I wont deny that this has hard glass cannons, but keep in mind that all glass cannons across the board, regardless of class, have been Ninja-nerfed.

plasmacutter.2709:

Except there was no patch which handed EVERYONE about 6 different ways to “counter” anyone else’s core mechanic. “counter” is also too weak a word. I believe the phrase is “permanently nullify”. Mesmers are not the tankiest class, but even in my build I can chain evasion ridiculously. Let’s think about what a guardian or a thief could do?

Because every class had about 6 ways to counter everyone elses core mechanics from RELEASE, Mesmers were the black sheep. You couldn’t counter their phantasm generation, meaning no matter what you did you’d have Phantasms on you.
It made iZerker double OP because you couldn’t dodge its first attack.

I’m actually amazed at this, it’s like you’re trying to find things to complain about on purpose.

TheRamosOnline.2670:

I agree that all builds need to be viable and I wont deny that this has hard glass cannons, but keep in mind that all glass cannons across the board, regardless of class, have been Ninja-nerfed.

Heartseeker wasn’t touched.

TheRamosOnline.2670:

plasmacutter.2709:

Except there was no patch which handed EVERYONE about 6 different ways to “counter” anyone else’s core mechanic. “counter” is also too weak a word. I believe the phrase is “permanently nullify”. Mesmers are not the tankiest class, but even in my build I can chain evasion ridiculously. Let’s think about what a guardian or a thief could do?

Because every class had about 6 ways to counter everyone elses core mechanics from RELEASE, Mesmers were the black sheep. You couldn’t counter their phantasm generation, meaning no matter what you did you’d have Phantasms on you.
It made iZerker double OP because you couldn’t dodge its first attack.

I’m actually amazed at this, it’s like you’re trying to find things to complain about on purpose.

Please let me know what abilities I had as a mesmer that I could SPAM to prevent guardians from ever being able to CAST GS3 (spin 2 win).

Please let me know what abilities I had as a mesmer that I could SPAM to prevent guardians from using group-utilities like “save yourselves” , “symbols”, or “wards”.

You see, our equivalents require us to have these things called “illusions” active.

Our group boons are tied to phantasms instead of symbols.

Our wards and kiting tools are 50% tied to phantasms instead of individual utilities or personally-cast weapon skills.

Our personal escapes, our most ready interrupts, and 50% of our aoe damage are tied to illusions.

I’m absolutely amazed at this, it’s as if you’re trying to purposefully ignore the fact everything we have that is of consequence is tied to our phantasms.

Hildebert.4196:

TheRamosOnline.2670:

I agree that all builds need to be viable and I wont deny that this has hard glass cannons, but keep in mind that all glass cannons across the board, regardless of class, have been Ninja-nerfed.

Heartseeker wasn’t touched.

Heartseeker was nerfed weeks ago.

plasmacutter.2709:

1) Please let me know what abilities I had as a mesmer that I could SPAM to prevent guardians from ever being able to CAST GS3 (spin 2 win).

2) Please let me know what abilities I had as a mesmer that I could SPAM to prevent guardians from using group-utilities like “save yourselves” , “symbols”, or “wards”.

1) Magic Bullet, Temporal Curtain, GS Skill 5 (name?), Feedback

2) Magic Bullet, Temporal Curtain, GS Skill 5 (name?)

Do you even know the class you’re playing?

Not to feed the fire of this tangent, but that heartseeker “nerf” was pretty universally panned as being ineffective.

Seraph.8293:

Not to feed the fire of this tangent, but that heartseeker “nerf” was pretty universally panned as being ineffective.

It’s the mechanic behind HS itself that needs to change, not the damage.
If you’re low health it does insane damage. Stupid advice; don’t get to low health when facing a D/D thief.
Pop heals earlier in a thief fight than you normally might. Abuse the fact that he can’t change direction midcast and force him to hit your clones (I hope you took the dodge-roll clone generation).
Its tricky, but can be done :P

TheRamosOnline.2670:

1) Magic Bullet, Temporal Curtain, GS Skill 5 (name?), Feedback

This stops them from from putting up wards and casting defensive group-boons? I think not sir. Do YOU know the class you’re playing?

Further, does this happen in PVE? blinds, blocks, invulnerability, et al happen in pve and in much more extended periods than “stunlock”

let me know when i can chain blind a guardian and in so doing prevent him from booning, warding, and healing his group the way chain blind will now prevent me summoning the phantasms necessary to perform the same function.

blind is now, unlike any other profession, a FULL BLOWN CC for mesmers only.

Yes, it interrupts. Most of those aren’t fully instant cast, they’re on a 3/4 or 1 second cast timer, which can be interrupted.
:/
Although everyone knows Guardians are OP in terms of support and healing, so I hardly think comparing them to Mesmers which actually need some form of a working brain is fair.

And you do know Chaos Storm isn’t effected by blind and provides the same support as Phantasms do, right?

TheRamosOnline.2670:

Yes, it interrupts. Most of those aren’t fully instant cast, they’re on a 3/4 or 1 second cast timer, which can be interrupted.
:/

Oh, it interrupts through a bubble of invulnerability? You tell me how that goes then!

Hold up, you do know Chaos Storm isn’t effected by blind and provides the same support as Phantasms do, right?

If you like taking a NAP between chaos storms. Unfortunately those bosses and the more synergistic trash packs won’t wait for you to wake up before resuming their efforts to pound your group into dust.

TheRamosOnline.2670:

plasmacutter.2709:

Except there was no patch which handed EVERYONE about 6 different ways to “counter” anyone else’s core mechanic. “counter” is also too weak a word. I believe the phrase is “permanently nullify”. Mesmers are not the tankiest class, but even in my build I can chain evasion ridiculously. Let’s think about what a guardian or a thief could do?

Because every class had about 6 ways to counter everyone elses core mechanics from RELEASE, Mesmers were the black sheep. You couldn’t counter their phantasm generation, meaning no matter what you did you’d have Phantasms on you.
It made iZerker double OP because you couldn’t dodge its first attack.

I’m actually amazed at this, it’s like you’re trying to find things to complain about on purpose.

So what? no matter what I do, I have a Ranger pet munching my kitten I can’t easily keep a Thief from stealing my pocket plasma. WHAT YOU CAN DO: Dodge roll away from shattering clones. kill shattering clones before they reach you. Block the shattering clones. simply out run the shattering clones. Get to a place where the clones cannot reach. Cripple/Chill the shattering clones. Ignore the shattering clones because the Mesmer isn’t spec’d for shatters so mind wrack does next to nothing. That’s 7 already and I could probably go on.

You’re also getting our core mechanic mixed up. Phantasms and clone generation are not our core mechanic; shatters are. illusions are a nice class attribute, but are not the core mechanic. However, regardless of whether its the core mechanic or not is not a problem though.

TheRamosOnline.2670:

You couldn’t counter their phantasm generation, meaning no matter what you did you’d have Phantasms on you.
It made iZerker double OP because you couldn’t dodge its first attack.

This is where you go wrong
Illusion generation is easily countered by either killing them or ignoring them. Simple as that. Clones do no damage and are easily avoided while shattering so the can mostly be ignored. Phantasms do a lot of damage initially but have a wide window between attacks and a very long and are still very fragile.

Saying no matter what you did you’d have phantasms on you is like saying no matter what you did to a Necro you’d have conditions on you or no matter what you did to a Guardian he would be able to block you occasionally. Its a class attribute, you do your best to counter it but they’re going to be there because that’s just part of the class.

Also you could dodge the initial iZerker whirl. It just had a very brief telegraph so it has virtually no warning.

plasmacutter.2709:

Hold up, you do know Chaos Storm isn’t effected by blind and provides the same support as Phantasms do, right?

If you like taking a NAP between chaos storms. Unfortunately those bosses and the more synergistic trash packs won’t wait for you to wake up before resuming their efforts to pound your group into dust.

Soooo don’t stand in the obvious area that the boss is about to smash a condition into?
You’re not painting yourself in the brightest of purples right now, you know.

I just can’t believe how people are complaining about all this, it’s like people here have nothing better to do than complain.
No mesmer I know in game is complaining at all. Tell a lie, one of them was let down by Portal’s extended cooldown.
And most of them are actually glass cannons, mind you. They still face roll pretty hard.

TheRamosOnline.2670:

Soooo don’t stand in the obvious area that the boss is about to smash a condition into?

Yes, clearly not standing in fire is going to make my phantasms actually appear when there’s a staircase, a crack in the terrain, a bunch of tiny adds spamming blind, the boss is invulnerable but spamming missiles my warden COULD have reflected before this patch, etc.

You’re not painting yourself in the brightest of purples right now, you know.

Please do talk to yourself more often. Maybe one of these days you will listen and wake from your stupor.

No mesmer I know in game is complaining at all.

They must be very dim or stick with zergs all day.

Some good points here from all sides of the argument, but for myself, as a simple soul, I ask ‘why the change?’

It is obvious that there are alternative Mesmer play-styles that seem relatively untouched, which leads me to the conclusion that the style now nerfed wasn’t OP, nor even unbalanced. In some (very few) situations, skills such as iBerserker could be over powerful, but generally it is a distraction that iB is (was) useful in the wider context. All professions have skills that are OP in certain specific areas of combat.

In essence, the Mesmer’s core mechanic has been tampered with in a negative manner, without any re-balance. I will reserve final judgment until I have played a while with the new set up but honestly fear that these changes make an already tricky mechanic impossible to live with.

TheRamosOnline.2670:

I run a Condition Bunker build […] I’ve hardly noticed the ‘Nerf’ all the other Mesmers are crying about.

There’s the crux of your arguments on all recent threads: “My build wasn’t nerfed. Couldn’t give a kitten about the others.”.

I’m just gonna say this.
I still destroy anything that dares come near me in PvP. So either I’m doing something right or you’re doing something very, very wrong.
Even the other glass cannon mesmers in the guild can destroy enemies in seconds, with these apparent nerfs in place.

The discussion ends there, as I am able to pump out endless streams of videos demonstrating this rendering any attempt at calling us nerfed husks of our former selves useless and ironic.

TheRamosOnline.2670:

I’m just gonna say this.
I still destroy anything that dares come near me in PvP. So either I’m doing something right or you’re doing something very, very wrong.
Even the other glass cannon mesmers in the guild can destroy enemies in seconds, with these apparent nerfs in place.

The discussion ends there, as I am able to pump out endless streams of videos demonstrating this rendering any attempt at calling us nerfed husks of our former selves useless and ironic.

yes, this game doesn’t have PVE at all.

Btw, my question to your friends: “how do you like standing at the bottom of that wall doing nothing?, being killed by a camp of NPCs that spam blind because you have no clones, and having your AOE nullified because your zerker targeted a guardian and never spawned?”

Mesmers who willingly accept these changes are naïve or have never fought against people who knew well enough what they’re doing to prevent the mesmer from face rolling.

Mesmers who willingly accept these changes have only fought idiots that do not understand the class and don’t care to and as a result have an over-inflated sense of worth thereby blinding themselves the the kitten hole mesmers are really in when they have to fight someone with half a brain.

Mesmers who willingly accept these changes are willingly accepting “fixes” that break further broken mechanics, cut the DPS of a primary source of damage into a third, and significantly cripple a fundamental aspect of their own class.

Mesmers who willingly accept these changes make baseless accusations to mesmers who do not share their unpopular opinion as being unskilled players who are bandwagoning in order to remain in a fictional position of dominance.

Maybe it’s not the Mesmers who are complaining that are bad. Maybe, just maybe,
mesmers who willingly accept these changes are the ones who are bad.

Here’s another observation for the OP:
Why is it that people assume everyone plays PvP and only PvP? – The vast majority of the player base are strict PvE players, and iZerker was one of the few attacks that had a hope of tagging mobs in Dynamic Events. Hence greatsword was frequently used in PvE because you know… it could actually tag mobs.

Hildebert.4196:

Mesmers who willingly accept these changes are naïve or have never fought against people who knew well enough what they’re doing to prevent the mesmer from face rolling.

Mesmers who willingly accept these changes have only fought idiots that do not understand the class and don’t care to and as a result have an over-inflated sense of worth thereby blinding themselves the the kitten hole mesmers are really in when they have to fight someone with half a brain.

Mesmers who willingly accept these changes are willingly accepting “fixes” that break further broken mechanics, cut the DPS of a primary source of damage into a third, and significantly cripple a fundamental aspect of their own class.

Mesmers who willingly accept these changes make baseless accusations to mesmers who do not share their unpopular opinion as being unskilled players who are bandwagoning in order to remain in a fictional position of dominance.

Maybe it’s not the Mesmers who are complaining that are bad. Maybe, just maybe,
mesmers who willingly accept these changes are the ones who are bad.

Well said. I’m a Condition Bunker mesmer and therefore this doesn’t affect me much…but it’s still complete ridiculousness. Hoping ANet fesses up and fixes this soon.

The fact is after quite a bit of testing, iBerserker misses 2-3 times per attack round, which one can only assume is due to the BS LOS issues in GW2. To base a skill on LOS and then not provide a bug free LOS is flawed and surely not intended. With testing ANET should have seen this even before putting the patch in to the mainstream so I can only assume their QA testing is not up to scratch.

Zamiel.2130:

With testing ANET should have seen this even before putting the patch in to the mainstream so I can only assume their QA testing is not up to scratch.

Do you really believe Anet tests these things?

TheRamosOnline.2670:

Phants now cast as normal attacks – A needed change. People keep crying about how Phantasms are a part of our class and by making them miss or get blocked (and need LoS) they’ve essentially made our core mechanic blockable. Uh… Hello? If you dodge roll away from Hundred Blades, a melee based attack, you have just avoided a Warriors core mechanic (melee burst). If you leave the Meteor Storm area, you’ve just ruined an Elementalists Core Mechanic. This change was needed, we are now on par with every other class.

Except this is not the same. For every other class the attack still comes out.

If an Elementalist casts meteor storm and the opponent dodges, at least there’s still a fire field on the ground to use.

If a Thief uses steal and the opponent rolls, the Thief still ends up behind the opponent (In fact the Thief can steal regardless of any status effect on him).

If a Mesmer uses Warden and the opponent has Aegis, I hope you weren’t planning on it reflecting projectiles because now the attack won’t even appear.

In fact I can’t think of anything else that is like this. Does an Engineer’s turrets not spawn if he’s out of range? Does a Ranger not evade attacks with his third Greatsword attack if he’s blinded? Does a Mesmer not get his whirl combo finisher if he doesn’t have line of sight? Oh wait, he doesn’t because the attack doesn’t happen at all if the phantasm doesn’t come out.

No other class can have their attack “not happen” unless they are interrupted. Essentially rolling, blinding, aegis, evasion, ect… now all “interrupt” the Mesmer preventing them from even attacking with 20% of their attacks.

TheRamosOnline.2670:

I’m just gonna say this.
I still destroy anything that dares come near me in PvP. So either I’m doing something right or you’re doing something very, very wrong.
Even the other glass cannon mesmers in the guild can destroy enemies in seconds, with these apparent nerfs in place.

The discussion ends there, as I am able to pump out endless streams of videos demonstrating this rendering any attempt at calling us nerfed husks of our former selves useless and ironic.

Please show a vid of you farming with scepter/torch/staff you love so much. Or don’t have to farm, just do a few events around orr. Maybe a dungeon or two as well.

No, this is not sarcasm, I’m genuinely interested. I’ve been running a knight’s/valkyrie mixed gear greatsword mesmer for damage and survivability, and I’m already feeling the nerfs heavily. My izerker gets obstructed by every little rock/shrub/tree/smallest elevations that hide the feet of my target(that seems to be the line of sight requirement; doesn’t matter if you can see their head, arms, torso, legs…you must see the feet).
You’ve shown so much confidence and conviction in your condition bunker build that I want to see if it is more efficient than what I was doing, especially since I have another lvl80 mes built completely on condition damage and it was nowhere near efficient in just normal PvE stuff, let alone farming.

Way to be myopic OP.

Somehow dodging theifs or warriors with their 12K plus damage hits and comparing that with dodging my formerly 3K hit (now 1200) from iBerserker is not reasonable. If you want to call it as us “being on par with every other class” then my berserker ought to hit for 12k. Then make it dodgable. Ok ok, drop my berserker damage to 10k to compensate for GS auto attack.

Clones / illusions / phantasm are the bread and butter to a mesmer, if the casting limitation is set to be so high, please at least display a red text “target is not in line of sight” instead without activate the skill (means no CD), so at least we can use the skill as soon as we believe we are able to cast.

Sometimes it is bug, sometimes it is camera issue which we cannot sure our casting is within line of sight or not, and players should not be punished by hit box bug or camera issue which makes our casting failed.

plasmacutter.2709:

Supersun.4603:

TheRamosOnline.2670:

Phants now cast as normal attacks – A needed change. People keep crying about how Phantasms are a part of our class and by making them miss or get blocked (and need LoS) they’ve essentially made our core mechanic blockable. Uh… Hello? If you dodge roll away from Hundred Blades, a melee based attack, you have just avoided a Warriors core mechanic (melee burst). If you leave the Meteor Storm area, you’ve just ruined an Elementalists Core Mechanic. This change was needed, we are now on par with every other class.

Except this is not the same. For every other class the attack still comes out.

If an Elementalist casts meteor storm and the opponent dodges, at least there’s still a fire field on the ground to use.

If a Thief uses steal and the opponent rolls, the Thief still ends up behind the opponent (In fact the Thief can steal regardless of any status effect on him).

If a Mesmer uses Warden and the opponent has Aegis, I hope you weren’t planning on it reflecting projectiles because now the attack won’t even appear.

In fact I can’t think of anything else that is like this. Does an Engineer’s turrets not spawn if he’s out of range? Does a Ranger not evade attacks with his third Greatsword attack if he’s blinded? Does a Mesmer not get his whirl combo finisher if he doesn’t have line of sight? Oh wait, he doesn’t because the attack doesn’t happen at all if the phantasm doesn’t come out.

No other class can have their attack “not happen” unless they are interrupted. Essentially rolling, blinding, aegis, evasion, ect… now all “interrupt” the Mesmer preventing them from even attacking with 20% of their attacks.

Bingo! It’s absolutely outrageous.

Ding ding!

I also find it unfair that we are being pigeon holed into what ANet wanted the mesmer to be. Actually, with all these ridiculous changes (mostly nerfs) back to back, they didn’t even know what they wanted. Seems like we have more than worked wonders for this class, and because of some spvp and wvw issues, everyone has to suffer. Anymore negative changes, and you might as well call us useless.

mongolianmisfit.8350:

Ding ding!

I also find it unfair that we are being pigeon holed into what ANet wanted the mesmer to be. Actually, with all these ridiculous changes (mostly nerfs) back to back, they didn’t even know what they wanted. Seems like we have more than worked wonders for this class, and because of some spvp and wvw issues, everyone has to suffer. Anymore negative changes, and you might as well call us useless.

Time Warp. Feedback. Nul Field. Illusion of Life. Portal still shines when you do it right. Stuff like that.

But seriously, beyond that one elite and a few utility skills I’m hard pressed to think of a reason I’d want a Mesmer in my group over a Guardian, Ele, or Ranger.

Weren’t Mesmer already the lowest population class?

Seraph.8293:

mongolianmisfit.8350:

Ding ding!

I also find it unfair that we are being pigeon holed into what ANet wanted the mesmer to be. Actually, with all these ridiculous changes (mostly nerfs) back to back, they didn’t even know what they wanted. Seems like we have more than worked wonders for this class, and because of some spvp and wvw issues, everyone has to suffer. Anymore negative changes, and you might as well call us useless.

Time Warp. Feedback. Nul Field. Illusion of Life. Portal still shines when you do it right. Stuff like that.

But seriously, beyond that one elite and a few utility skills I’m hard pressed to think of a reason I’d want a Mesmer in my group over a Guardian, Ele, or Ranger.

Weren’t Mesmer already the lowest population class?

If by lowest you mean one of the highest, then yes.

koopatroopa.5360:

Seraph.8293:

mongolianmisfit.8350:

Ding ding!

I also find it unfair that we are being pigeon holed into what ANet wanted the mesmer to be. Actually, with all these ridiculous changes (mostly nerfs) back to back, they didn’t even know what they wanted. Seems like we have more than worked wonders for this class, and because of some spvp and wvw issues, everyone has to suffer. Anymore negative changes, and you might as well call us useless.

Time Warp. Feedback. Nul Field. Illusion of Life. Portal still shines when you do it right. Stuff like that.

But seriously, beyond that one elite and a few utility skills I’m hard pressed to think of a reason I’d want a Mesmer in my group over a Guardian, Ele, or Ranger.

Weren’t Mesmer already the lowest population class?

If by lowest you mean one of the highest, then yes.

Really? I run around openworld PvE a lot and hardly see any mesmers. Even in highly populated DE’s like Modnir Overlord event, Tequatl or Orr I was lucky to see more than one more mesmer compared to a crapload of warriors/guardians/elementalists/rangers.
I can see why there would be a lot for PvP, but for PvE…definately the lowest population.

ddoi.9264:

koopatroopa.5360:

Seraph.8293:

mongolianmisfit.8350:

Ding ding!

I also find it unfair that we are being pigeon holed into what ANet wanted the mesmer to be. Actually, with all these ridiculous changes (mostly nerfs) back to back, they didn’t even know what they wanted. Seems like we have more than worked wonders for this class, and because of some spvp and wvw issues, everyone has to suffer. Anymore negative changes, and you might as well call us useless.

Time Warp. Feedback. Nul Field. Illusion of Life. Portal still shines when you do it right. Stuff like that.

But seriously, beyond that one elite and a few utility skills I’m hard pressed to think of a reason I’d want a Mesmer in my group over a Guardian, Ele, or Ranger.

Weren’t Mesmer already the lowest population class?

If by lowest you mean one of the highest, then yes.

Really? I run around openworld PvE a lot and hardly see any mesmers. Even in highly populated DE’s like Modnir Overlord event, Tequatl or Orr I was lucky to see more than one more mesmer compared to a crapload of warriors/guardians/elementalists/rangers.
I can see why there would be a lot for PvP, but for PvE…definately the lowest population.

I guess it depends on the servers. My server there is quite a lot PvE side. From my experience with sPvP and WvWvW there has been a significant amount too, especially in the last couple of weeks. Necro and engi’s I rarely see.

ddoi.9264:

TheRamosOnline.2670:

I’m just gonna say this.
I still destroy anything that dares come near me in PvP. So either I’m doing something right or you’re doing something very, very wrong.
Even the other glass cannon mesmers in the guild can destroy enemies in seconds, with these apparent nerfs in place.

The discussion ends there, as I am able to pump out endless streams of videos demonstrating this rendering any attempt at calling us nerfed husks of our former selves useless and ironic.

Please show a vid of you farming with scepter/torch/staff you love so much. Or don’t have to farm, just do a few events around orr. Maybe a dungeon or two as well.

No, this is not sarcasm, I’m genuinely interested. I’ve been running a knight’s/valkyrie mixed gear greatsword mesmer for damage and survivability, and I’m already feeling the nerfs heavily. My izerker gets obstructed by every little rock/shrub/tree/smallest elevations that hide the feet of my target(that seems to be the line of sight requirement; doesn’t matter if you can see their head, arms, torso, legs…you must see the feet).
You’ve shown so much confidence and conviction in your condition bunker build that I want to see if it is more efficient than what I was doing, especially since I have another lvl80 mes built completely on condition damage and it was nowhere near efficient in just normal PvE stuff, let alone farming.

That’s someone else running with a condition build very similar to my one.
I’ll be trying to make some videos myself since last video I only used Scepter Pistol.

I’ve just got back from turning the EB 2/3’s to my server, not once did I ever have an issue with spawning Phantasms. I did notice a huge ‘Non-Threat’ iZerkers now posed but I think that’s purely because of that bug that causes it to miss half the time.
But yeah, I had iMages and iWarlocks up without any problems at all.

To those who still don’t grasp some things, Anet SAID they were going to nerf burst on the whole, as fights were ending too quickly. Greatsword, whether you like it or not, is a Burst-based weapon for every class that can wield it. So expect GS Glass Cannon Mesmers to be far weaker now.
And hopefully this means that other unique builds will show up.

And I assume people PvP because GW2 is, like its predecessor, a PvP-based game, whether or not you want to admit that. WvW is the ‘endgame’ content right now. Sure there’s some PvE, but really who does PvE after hitting 80 other than to get gear skins (or gear if they’ve just dinged) and to farm gold?

Just to clear up a few misconceptions:

TheRamosOnline.2670:

Now, is it just me or are those complaining about the changes to Mesmers running a Glass Cannon build?

Not the glass cannon build, a physical weapons build. A glass cannon mesmer would be full shatter build with staff secondary weapon, whereas a Greatsword mesmer is more of a hybrid between a shatter and a phantasm build, i.e. tailored towards sustained damage rather than sheer burst.

Frankly, if the iBerserker isn’t a bug, I’m more likely to go deeper into the glass cannon build with Staff, though I’m not yet sure how much it’ll actually affect me (most of my damage comes from clone factory + weapons themselves, but I’m using a bit unusual spec to begin with).

Portal – I never used this anyway. Blink is far better in my opinion, no need to set it up before a fight and no chance of it failing due to ticking over its first cooldown.

Portal isn’t an alternative to Blink, it’s primarily a group utility skill, though you can use it to pull a few crazy stunts as well. It is extremely valuable in WvW for tactical combat maneuvers and surprise attacks. That said, increased cooldown will have little effect to its use.

Phants now cast as normal attacks – A needed change.

Agreed, though I think this was changed more for WvW purposes, as Mesmers were the only class that could destroy defending siege while the doors were still up.

Also: Tuna Morph <3

Aaaah, a nice non hostile comment.
<3

I’d have to admit, I never tried glass cannon but I knew the GS could dish out some insane burst on a power build (saw a GS Mesmer down someone in 2 hits; Skill 3 and 2 without clones. It was a thief, and we were puzzle camping a certain server).
So I assumed GS was the Glass Cannon weapon.
When I thought of the Mesmer, I never thought of someone who kills foes in seconds then is left defenseless for a minute or 2 while waiting for cooldowns, I pictured a long lasting class that gains an advantage over time, as the foe is slowly rendered insane by the illusions of the Mesmer.
Someone who always has a ‘Get Out Of Jail’ card when things get rough but can lay down the hurt if you fight them for too long (like the sanity meter from Amnesia).

Supersun.4603:

If an Elementalist casts meteor storm and the opponent dodges, at least there’s still a fire field on the ground to use.

Meteor Shower is storm, not combo field.

I feel like folks are arguing in this thread for the sake of pride.

In my opinion, Illusions could already be countered by opposing players/mobs — simply hit them and poof. A foe could also block/evade the initial attack (and not receive the hit effect like cripple).

The fact is an illusion is not a simple one-shot skill like most skills in the game. It’s a combination of many mechanics including a pet. Nullifying the entire mechanic with a simple blind, aegis, block, etc. is overly severe.

If you think of an illusion as a fragile pet, then you’ll understand the fustration many players are having with this latest change. Combine that with the other bugs introduced on the illusions, and there’s plenty of reason to rant.

TheRamosOnline.2670:

Phants now cast as normal attacks – A needed change. People keep crying about how Phantasms are a part of our class and by making them miss or get blocked (and need LoS) they’ve essentially made our core mechanic blockable. Uh… Hello? If you dodge roll away from Hundred Blades, a melee based attack, you have just avoided a Warriors core mechanic (melee burst). If you leave the Meteor Storm area, you’ve just ruined an Elementalists Core Mechanic. This change was needed, we are now on par with every other class.

Attacks by illusions should be blocked and so on, not their creation.

Actually, now I’ve gone over it again, I think you deserve to see this comic;
http://www.twogag.com/comics/2012-09-19-TGAG_202_The_Breakthrough.jpg

I don’t rely on Phantasms for much other than extra damage, but I can see how the changes have severely crippled the ability to spawn them.
I always open the fight with a phantasm in PvP, so I’m normally not blinded at that time, thats why I never noticed an issue.