Guild Wars 2

No, just no Anet, what were you thinking when you made this elite skill and thought this was a good idea. This skill is too powerful for an already powerful class, I play a mesmer I know how easy they are, my noob friend found a mesmer build and switched to a mesmer, now he can hold a point for almost a minute, but let’s not talk about the class but this powerful skill.

It’s the only skill that transforms the enemy, it overrides other transformation skills such as lich form, juggernaut and tornado. It destroys all minions on a necro rendering a minionmancer useless with full cds on utilities. Not sure if it destroys thieve’s guild. It’s the perfect 1vs1 IWIN skill and also pretty useful to disable an enemy in group play, so a 3vs3 turns into a 3vs2 and a 2vs2 turns into a 2vs1 for 10 whole seconds, 10 whole seconds is more than enough to burst down 1 target and as a MOA bird oh believe me you will get burst down.

The range is quite ridiculous and yes you can dodge it sometimes, but a good mesmer will make sure you don’t, I make my target dodge twice before using it.

For me this is the only Elite Skill that needs to be either tweaked or removed, only one that transforms and renders a person useless for 10 seconds. no utilities or stunbreaks, no no no just no.

I quite enjoy the moa form-it does much more damage that my elementalist and i dont have to press as many buttons
Seriously tho its an ELITE it has a 3 MINUTE cooldown it only disables a single target from using its skills-you can still run away and even dodge.
Funny thing coming from an necromancer cough lich and plague forms cough

I think it’s hilarious that on the front page of this forum you can find like 3 posts complaining about how mesmers are ridiculously OP, and 3 complaining about how they are absolutely broken and useless.

Also, how is that good mesmer going to make sure that you don’t dodge his moa form? I’m not sure, but I think that the cast time probably exceeds the time that you are stunned from magic bullet.

Creslin.1758:

I think it’s hilarious that on the front page of this forum you can find like 3 posts complaining about how mesmers are ridiculously OP, and 3 complaining about how they are absolutely broken and useless.

Also, how is that good mesmer going to make sure that you don’t dodge his moa form? I’m not sure, but I think that the cast time probably exceeds the time that you are stunned from magic bullet.

What if I told you that you don’t have infinite dodges? The people that say they are broken and useless just haven’t l2p yet, we all know mesmers are great at plenty of roles and a must in tournaments, trust me I play one if we’re missing one in my team, moa, portals, mesmers on trebs, can hold points like a boss and 2vs1 easy tx to moa bird. MOA needs a nerf for an already strong class either increase toughness for a person in moa or increase health pool.

Zogyark.4597:

Creslin.1758:

I think it’s hilarious that on the front page of this forum you can find like 3 posts complaining about how mesmers are ridiculously OP, and 3 complaining about how they are absolutely broken and useless.

Also, how is that good mesmer going to make sure that you don’t dodge his moa form? I’m not sure, but I think that the cast time probably exceeds the time that you are stunned from magic bullet.

What if I told you that you don’t have infinite dodges? The people that say they are broken and useless just haven’t l2p yet, we all know mesmers are great at plenty of roles and a must in tournaments, trust me I play one if we’re missing one in my team, moa, portals, mesmers on trebs, can hold points like a boss and 2vs1 easy tx to moa bird. MOA needs a nerf for an already strong class either increase toughness for a person in moa or increase health pool.

So you used all your dodges, and all your escape skills and then someone nailed you with a powerful skill before they recharged.

What is the problem here? If that is the case, then a warrior could have just bull’s rush + frenzy + one hundred blades and melted your face without all the need for bird theatrics. At least with moa you had a chance to survive lol, and those warrior skills aren’t even elite.

Thank you, Creslin. If a Mesmer is tactically feinting out your dodges, forcing you to use your escapes on other lesser abilities, I think it’s great that you got owned by Moa. That’s how things work. You get rewarded for being patient and tactical.

As a Moa, you can still run, you can still dodge, you can still LoS. You don’t just stand there like a ninny. You run for 10 seconds. In the grand scheme of things, 10 seconds is not a long time.

And in any case, if a Mesmer is using Moa for his elite, he’s really sacrificing the team play with Time Warp. Moa morph can change a small scale battle dramatically. Time Warp can alter a large scale battle dramatically. Ultimately I think you get more mileage out of Time Warp, so if a mesmer is using Moa, they’re really sacrificing a lot, comparatively.

Yes, I have Moa on my bars. How often do I use it? Not even once per day. I’ve used it maybe 5 times since the game came out. I don’t even really care about it that much. If it works, great. If the opponent out-plays me and has another trick up their sleeve to interrupt or avoid… meh, oh well.

It really isn’t the be-all-and-end-all unless you don’t understand how to deal with it.

I have used it maybe twice, i think TW is FAR Superior to Moa

Ok so you play a mesmers, mesmers are OP, anyones noob friend can perfect playing one. What r u complaining about?

@ Creslin don’t even compare 100 blades with a MOA transform, 100 blades you can stun break, Moa YOU CANT, read the OP.

@Temariah PvP me 1vs1 with my mesmer, jade quarry server, you’ll see how it’s easy to lure someone into a moa transform, you’ll be dead before the 10 secs are up or really close to it because you can’t stun break as a moa bird. No a mesmer that holds points and trebs will do wonders with this, lord i can see you don’t tPvP

@Armaggedon – I think so too, Moa bird is still akitten skill

@ Dropping – About Moa bird, read the OP and how strong this skill is. Maybe I want to see great groups that don’t require a mesmer?

Obviously on the mesmer forum all the mesmers are going to defend this joke of an elite.

Zogyark – i dont know ONE mesmer that uses Moa, every Mesmer i know uses TW. Its normally used by new players and those trying to just nuke down new players.

Though i think it is strong, i dont think its over powered, bar maybe length – it can be dodged, evaded and such plus a long cast time that can easily be interrupted but you do have the option is to RUN away – 10 seconds hide behind a wall or something until its over.

I use moa when i’m running solo incase i get jumped. otherwise TW is the kitten.

Zogyark, the scenario you presented was that you had used all your dodge skills, and presumably any other escape skill or daze or whatever that could counter the mesmer. So in this scenario, you can’t counter the stun to get out of one hundred blades because your stun breaker is on cooldown.

The funny thing is that I don’t really even use moa. It takes a long time to cast, it is single target, and the moa can just run away and dodge forcing me to chase him and waste time or let him go.

Time warp can literally win an entire battle, it gives TEN SECONDS of QUICKNESS to an area…which could possibly be your entire team AND it’s an instant cast. And you are complaining about moa…which is honestly kind of funny.

Any PvE Mesmer with half a brain that tries out Moa Morph learns to not use it because the target can keep on attacking and kill you.

Unfortunately, it looks like mob AI is smarter than player “intelligence,” if PvP Mesmers are still using it regularly.

Running away with what? What’s to stop your enemies from following you around said wall? What if an enemy follows it up with a cripple or anything like such? Most capture points in sPvP are also in fairly wide-open areas that melee users would be hard pressed to find themselves cover before taking an obscene amount of damage.

Then there’s the other issue. Unlike any other skill in the game, it makes the player hit by it unable to counter. If I’m dazed, I can break the stun. If I’m crippled, chilled, or anything, I can cure it. The only “counter” is not to get hit, which applies to every other ability in the game. It’s not even very well telegraphed, in comparison to most other classes elites.

This makes it not only a powerful ability, but not fun to fight against.

An ability like this, even if it isn’t OP in the big picture is just cheap. You could make the cool-down 30 minutes, and it’d still have the same flaws.

Creslin.1758:

Zogyark, the scenario you presented was that you had used all your dodge skills, and presumably any other escape skill or daze or whatever that could counter the mesmer. So in this scenario, you can’t counter the stun to get out of one hundred blades because your stun breaker is on cooldown.

The funny thing is that I don’t really even use moa. It takes a long time to cast, it is single target, and the moa can just run away and dodge forcing me to chase him and waste time or let him go.

Time warp can literally win an entire battle, it gives TEN SECONDS of QUICKNESS to an area…which could possibly be your entire team AND it’s an instant cast. And you are complaining about moa…which is honestly kind of funny.

Nah you don’t get the scenario.

Bull’s charge – 100 blades – stun break and move away.
staff #2 skill then Prestige or decoy, moa – you can’t stun out of moa because you’re useless now. Trust me I also play a warrior and mesmer is far superior

yes quickness is great too, but a mesmer that holds one point and the treb benefits from a moa better which successuly helps for a 1vs1 and 1vs2 while waiting on backup.

Zogyark.4597:

Creslin.1758:

Zogyark, the scenario you presented was that you had used all your dodge skills, and presumably any other escape skill or daze or whatever that could counter the mesmer. So in this scenario, you can’t counter the stun to get out of one hundred blades because your stun breaker is on cooldown.

The funny thing is that I don’t really even use moa. It takes a long time to cast, it is single target, and the moa can just run away and dodge forcing me to chase him and waste time or let him go.

Time warp can literally win an entire battle, it gives TEN SECONDS of QUICKNESS to an area…which could possibly be your entire team AND it’s an instant cast. And you are complaining about moa…which is honestly kind of funny.

Nah you don’t get the scenario.

Bull’s charge – 100 blades – stun break and move away.
staff #2 skill then Prestige or decoy, moa – you can’t stun out of moa because you’re useless now. Trust me I also play a warrior and mesmer is far superior

yes quickness is great too, but a mesmer that holds one point and the treb benefits from a moa better which successuly helps for a 1vs1 and 1vs2 while waiting on backup.

In the beginning of the thread, we said that you could just dodge out of moa morph. To this, you replied:

“Well what if I used my dodge up?”

And then I said tha if you used up your dodge and all your escape skills, then you are screwed and that is basically your fault. I also said that the same would apply to any effective skill combination like bull’s rush + frenzy + one hundred blades.

That is why in this scenario, you have already used your stun break. Your whole argument against dodge being a good counter to moa morph was that you had already used dodge up. So in the scenario where you get one hundred bladed…you would have already used up your stun break.

The point is that if your counters are on cool down, you are screwed no matter what is getting you.

Creslin.1758:

Zogyark.4597:

Creslin.1758:

Zogyark, the scenario you presented was that you had used all your dodge skills, and presumably any other escape skill or daze or whatever that could counter the mesmer. So in this scenario, you can’t counter the stun to get out of one hundred blades because your stun breaker is on cooldown.

The funny thing is that I don’t really even use moa. It takes a long time to cast, it is single target, and the moa can just run away and dodge forcing me to chase him and waste time or let him go.

Time warp can literally win an entire battle, it gives TEN SECONDS of QUICKNESS to an area…which could possibly be your entire team AND it’s an instant cast. And you are complaining about moa…which is honestly kind of funny.

Nah you don’t get the scenario.

Bull’s charge – 100 blades – stun break and move away.
staff #2 skill then Prestige or decoy, moa – you can’t stun out of moa because you’re useless now. Trust me I also play a warrior and mesmer is far superior

yes quickness is great too, but a mesmer that holds one point and the treb benefits from a moa better which successuly helps for a 1vs1 and 1vs2 while waiting on backup.

In the beginning of the thread, we said that you could just dodge out of moa morph. To this, you replied:

“Well what if I used my dodge up?”

And then I said tha if you used up your dodge and all your escape skills, then you are screwed and that is basically your fault. I also said that the same would apply to any effective skill combination like bull’s rush + frenzy + one hundred blades.

That is why in this scenario, you have already used your stun break. Your whole argument against dodge being a good counter to moa morph was that you had already used dodge up. So in the scenario where you get one hundred bladed…you would have already used up your stun break.

The point is that if your counters are on cool down, you are screwed no matter what is getting you.

I’d like you to point out where I said i used my stun break for a MOA, I save my stun breaks for these powerful skills. YOU CAN"T stunbreak from moa, you’re rendered useless for 10 secs where you can get stunned and nuked without utilitys and regular weapon skills, 10 secs is more than enough time for me to kill most classes on my mesmer.

BTW stun breaks does not = dodges

His “this scenario” is talking about your 100 Blades scenario, Zogyark. It’s clearly not relevant to Moa.

I also get the feeling you don’t actually use a Mesmer, if you honestly think The Prestige is one way to stealth cast Moa. Mesmers have to use a utility slot for real
stealth. Your Moa scenario already has three slots filled so far:

Weapon(s) #1: Staff

Weapon(s) #2: ?

Utility #1: Stealth skill (Decoy, Veil)
Utility #2: ?
Utility #3: ?

Elite: Moa Morph

Traits: ?

So what else are you going to add in to the scenario?

Edit: Added in Staff.

Of course it’s relevant he compared the two which not even lol, one you can use stun break the other you can’t because moa disables all your skills which makes it such a strong skill, u cant stun break as a moa which leaves you very vulnerable to any and plenty of attacks.

My build varies like any smart players would, my utilities though I usually bring decoy, blink (this utility slot changes depending if solo or with a group at the time) and the portal entre which i think should be an elite skill because of the HUGE advantage it gives in tPvP. Only play tourneys btw which is the most important aspect of pvp.

And please to all the people that say you can just dodge it. Either you are pretending to be ignorant or you don’t know how to play your class. Moa skill can be canceled if you move so when you see an enemy dodge just move and it will cancel the elite and wait for it to come back again in 4 seconds, god i have to teach mesmers how to play right.

Anyways off work now, feel free to reply with your justifying replies about this ridiculous skill.

Breaking an elite on 240s cooldown with a simple stun-break skill would make the elite rather useless don’t you agree?

Dodging the elite is probably acceptable because it requires a higher situational awareness (as opposed to OMG I’M A MOA, stun break ftw). I think most would agree with this.

Keep in mind you can interrupt the skill as it’s being cast — again hard and requires situational awareness, but not more than interrupting the long casting elite for any other class.

You are not completely helpless as a Moa for 10 seconds. If you disagree then please re-read many of the posts above. You can move and dodge as a Moa. Also you have Moa skills — yeah there’s no way to research them because they’re not currently on the wiki. Also it’s pretty hard to master them during the 10s that you are actually a moa. However If I remember correctly, Moa 4 or Moa 5 is a screetch attack that stuns (heh, turn around and hit that mesmer with a stun!). Yeah moa skills are not as good as your own, but you are not helpless.

I think this is mostly over-reaction at this point — OMG I’M A MOA. Six months from now I doubt you’ll hear much on this.

Six months from now Juno the entire class will be balanced for sPvP and the rest of the game it will be buggered.

If you want to get rid of the MOA skill, please come up with something that would be useful in RvR and PvE.

And not a chocolate fireguard either.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

It’s not even very well telegraphed, in comparison to most other classes elites.

BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL! Isn’t well telegraphed enough? Do you want it to send you an in-game mail 30 seconds before it hits?

Treize.7026:

Rottaran Owain.6789:

It’s not even very well telegraphed, in comparison to most other classes elites.

BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL! Isn’t well telegraphed enough? Do you want it to send you an in-game mail 30 seconds before it hits?

Well lets compare. To a few other elites

Dagger Storm: Oh look, he’s turned into a uniquely coloured spinning blur, I guess I should stop firing projectiles

Guardian Tomes: Oh look, he has a tome in front of him

Elixer X: He’s turned into a giant

Bassalisk Venom: I can see the buff before he uses it on him

Just about every elite either isn’t one that “hits” opponents, or telegraphs the hit well in advanced in a way that can’t possibly be missed.

Polymorph, on the other hand is just a few waves of the hand, and the mesmer stops moving for a moment. Of course, this is also on the class that can have multiple versions of itself that you have to watch at the same time if at the time you don’t know which one is the real one.

There’s no elite that gives less time to react to the cast, and most are more obvious when the actual casting is being done.

lol an older Moa Morph OP thread
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/My-opinion-moa-bird-feels-too-strong/first#post53510
I agree this spell is overpowered. But I have agree with the guy that says TW is even better though.

I’m a PVE mesmer and Moa disappoints me. I would rather they just remove the skill entirely and replace it with something decent. But I knew from the start that mesmer was a PVP oriented class when I created her, so I’m stuck with it. Time warp is more team oriented and I don’t use it yet although I likely will in dungeons if they ever fix them. I don’t see the point in using time warp in dynamic events when everyone is zerging anyways and I’m lucky to get in a few kills and maybe two whole loots at best. So I’m using Mistfire Wolf, and I’m really glad I have it because it’s the only decent elite I’ve got.

Moa morph is also one of the few elites that can 100% fail and go on cooldown if your opponent dodgerolls at the right time, goes halfway behind a tree, or goes out of range. I agree it’s powerful, but I’d contend it’s not as overpowered as many will imply. Really no more overpowered than theif’s dagger storm or ranger’s entangle.

I think it is a joke personally. Every time a Mesmer has MOAd me Ive killed her. Yeah it takes me out of the fight for a min, but you run fast.. you can draw them away and its now down for 2 minutes. If a mesmer wants to waste a slot with a 2 min cool-down that is a CC effect that actually lets the prey get away, np but such a waste imo.

I don’t use it.
It’s plainly stupid and Time Warp is way more usefull for my server

With Moa you can kill 1 badie
With Time Warp you can kill all the badies in one shot

@Zogyark:
What do you think about Time Warp?

@ Carighan – I think it’s an awesome skill and I don’t mind it one bit, you can stunbreak from it, move out of the way and the rest of your skills are still available so it balances out.

Since we’re in a comparison throwing competition:

Engineer:
Supply crate: A huge AoE knockdown stun that adds a bunch’ve turrets to the field, group regen and healling. Can easily turn a small scale (up to 5 vs 5) fight on it’s head
Mortar: A portable, zero resource cost siege weapon perfect for bombarding wall defences from a safe distance?

Guardian:
Tome of.. something: Nobody is going to die on my watch! – Spam ALL the heals!

Mesmer:
Timewarp: Effectively doubles the DPS/skill spam of the entire party!
Moa: Take a single opponent out the fight for 10 seconds…

…so everyone singles out MOA as being too powerful… XD

…at the end of the day the Moa epitomises why most games avoid having a control class. Nobody likes losing control, it’s not Moa is strictly overpowered in the grand scheme of mass PvP. It’s just people feel cheesed when they can’t defend themselves, so for future reference let’s straighten it out.

The problem is not Moa being OP. It’s you getting a bruised ego :p

What Ryuujin says.

There are insanely powerful Elites, chief among which are Supply Crate, Tome of Courage and first and foremost, Time Warp.

But for some reason, everyone whines about Moa Morph, an elite so weak in comparison to Time Warp that it’s really only useful to … well … get people to whine about it. It’s nice for trolling people, but for nothing beyond that. It turns an already won fight into an even more cleanly wrong fight, and close 1v1 encounters into wins.
In other words, strategically it’s completely meaningless.

Time Warp turns zerg-fights from losses into wins. It breaks Oil in seconds, it blasts attackers off the gate, it stomps max-defended points in sPvP. Time Warp can only really be countered by AE CC (difficult outside of Supply Crate), coordinated (voicecomm-level) AE invis moves or by Time Warp from yourself.
Likewise even after the nerf a ToC-Guardian is probably the strongest back-row supporter you can have, easily turning a balanced fight into a strongly unbalanced one.
And Supply Crate, well, it counters Time Warp. That alone is reason enough to use it, but it’s also very powerful on it’s own, especially if used with good timing so the enemies have to decide between denying you the position or focusing on you.

But Moa is your problem? Really?

@ Carighan – I think it’s an awesome skill and I don’t mind it one bit, you can stunbreak from it, move out of the way and the rest of your skills are still available so it balances out.

I find it… juvenile how the loss of abilities seems to be the definition of power to you.

You can:

1. Move out of the way of Moa.
2. Move out of the way after Moa.
3. Deny post-Moa attacks entirely with class abilities.
4. Deny casting Moa due to forced movement (it roots while casting!), interruption or simple range (lacking +runspeed if we start from max-range my chance to cast are null if you take a step back).
5. Dodge it. It goes on full 3 minutes CD.
6. Ignore it. Moa is meaningless to who wins the camp / tower / keep / castle / battleground.

Instead of being useful, Moa humiliates the target with it’s 10s of pink, bird, running-only form. It’s awesome to create forum whining, and I give it that it does it reaaally well.

@ Carighan – you’re completely one dimensional in the way you look at it along with so many it’s not even funny, even after explaining why. Sure you can have a mesmer in the front lines with TW, you can also have a mesmer defending your other point. A mesmer with a moa, at least in my team is the best for holding/stalling points in 1vs1s and 2vs1s. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve won 2vs1s on tPvP tx to Moa often giving us pts for the win while my other 4 teammates are out roaming taking the other capture points/npcs. Now tell me how is time warp useful in this situation? As a mesmer it won’t be nearly as useful as Moa will when you’re holding a point. This skill is an easy win against a skilled mesmer, when I turn you into a bird I guarantee you will go down before you transform back.

1. I can cancel Moa while casting just move, good luck dodging.
2. move out of the way? illusionary leap, #5 gun skill are good stuns to get started, no you can’t stun break as a moa, you would think this would be there for such a skill at least.
3. Post moa attacks when you’re already dead?
4. Moa has a little over 1 sec casting lol what are your reflexes too good? most players won’t see it coming out of decoy stealth or other tactics like the prestige or port
5. A skilled mesmer’s moa cannot be dodged, also often it doesn’t trigger the cd but a 4 sec cd then you can cast it again.
6. Already explained it’s not, but keep failing to read.

Keep justifying this joke of a skill after many examples of it’s usefullness and strengths have been given.

Well, keep justifying to yourself that you lost because of Moa.
I think SC2 players often use the same justification, and Blizzard regularly posts the win-percentages to /laugh at them. :P

Yes, Moa is strong. If used against enemies who can’t fight. It’s the Siege Tank of SC2, it absolutely destroys bad~medium players leaving them gasping what they should even be doing against it.
Simple changes in tactics completely remove it’s viability, but generally speaking players tend to take to the forums instead of to the planning board, expecting the developers to worry about it.

Compare Supply Drop. Absolutely devastating in area combat if there’s no wall involved. Easily disabled by not offering the concentrated formation Supply Drop needs to bring it’s full power to bear, or by not letting the enemy maneuver you into a spot where the turrets can cause proper harm.

Another thing I’d like to point out is that we have weapon or class mechanics skills which cause 2s of stun, comparing an elite (as in: using up the elite slot which has other powerful mechanics available) which produces a 10s Silence+Disarm.
It’s quite inferior to a Stun (a 10s Stun would be far superior).

I play a mesmer, I know how strong it is, and I win a very high percentange of 1vs1s as a mesmer and a good percentage of 2vs1s when moa is not on cd.

And thanks for pointing that out for me in the end, 10s silence+Disarm while having plenty of class mechanics that cause 2s of stun which you won’t break out of in this form because of the inability to use skills? = OP and pure win.

The answer is simple, increased toughness or/and vitality as a Moa bird, increase it’s cooldown, no cancel on move, at least the option to use utilities when moad. This skill was mean to disable 1 target, not disable for an easy kill, anyone that disagrees is blindly defending. And if you can’t kill a target that’s moad bird then you’re just a bad mesmer.

You keep talking about 1 Vs 1, and 2 Vs 1. The game isn’t balanced for 1 Vs 1 yet. in fact, precious few games ever are balanced 1 Vs 1 when class systems are involved because every class has it’s rock, paper or scissors.

Mesmer are already gods of 1 Vs 1, Moa or not they are going to win 90% of the time in 1 vs 1; shouldn’t you just argue Mesmers need nerfing globally?

Sorry, it’s just you seem to be dwelling on a VERY VERY specific situation, that occurs occasionally, in a single game mode, when a person takes a huge gamble and tries to cap a point in 5 vs 5, solo. And then runs into a Mesmer, who happens to have Moa selected as his elite, and it happens to be off cooldown.

In this situation Moa can end you… so, to you this extremely rare scenario that’s reason to nerf it into obsolescence throughout all the other game modes?

Paper said:

Rock is balanced fine, but nerf scissors!

If you start with paper, rock, scissors I’ll have to go on with lvl32 Tanks with shields that are completely OP. Same for kittycats with auto-attack every 0.75s and critt for 2.5k.

Mesmer is OP but you Zorkyak have no idea or clue why exactly, neither does 99.9% around here, including Anet.

Nerf Magus (was about time btw)

Mesmers dont need a nerf globally, just the IWIN button does.

Situation happens a lot on tPvP, even on 3vs1 moa is pretty useful, you can kite in defense of the capture point until help arrives, or at least long enough to waste precious time. Not a rare scenario at all.

Not nerf it into obsolescence, but just reasonable things like I posted above, it does need a nerf and throughout the board most will agree, except mesmers ofc who say the skill is crap but in reality they just don’t want to lose their IWIN button. Heck I play a mesmer mostly nowadays and I’m not afraid of the truth but until then I’ll take advantage of it because I like winning tournies, but I won’t deny the facts.

If you’re so good, why don’t you just don’t slot it Zogyark but whine about it on the forums?
Most of us have already said we don’t use it.

For me you can take it away, drop it, put it where the sun never shines and I don’t even want it to be replaced by something else.

A Mesmer with Timewarp is more frightening then one with Moa. Just time some dodges while in Moa and you are back in the fight. Timewarp, you probably didn’t last the 10 seconds to make it back in the fight.

I can probably count on 2 hands the amount of times I’ve been Moa’d. I don’t see it very often at all, and the amount of times I’ve died as a result I can probably count on 1 finger.

Time Warp is waaay better than Moa Morph. It has an ethereal combo field, which is amazing, and gives 10 seconds of quickness to 5 people?! Yes please!

In a 1v1 situation, which is what you keep referring to, Mesmer’s should win most of the time without Moa.

Also, Moa roots the caster in place when they cast it, plus it has a pretty long cast time. It’s very easy to spot when a Mesmer is casting Moa.

I propose an alternative then:

Endless Maze
Traps the target in an endless maze of illusionary mirrors, effectively causing it to be unable to fight, move or control in any way in the real world.
Within the illusion, the target can navigate the maze, and as long as they keep navigating it the illusion stays real enough to actually make anyone unable to interact with the target at all.
3m CD, instant cast. 10s duration.
In other words, this spell makes the target completely unable to act (can’t even move), but in turn also makes them unable to be acted upon. No damage, no healing, no buff or debuff, nothing will affect the target while this spell is affecting them.

In other words, WoW Banish with 10s duration and a neat graphics effect for the target.

(edit)
I also think some people are overestimating the importance of tPvP or sPvP.
Given the development time WvW must have taken compared to that – and how it better integrates into the PvE game – it seems logical to me the devs will want to focus much of their efforts down that road, seeing how tPvP balance would at some point have to wash out the class differences.
Just a side note, but don’t get trapped in the wowthink that “Arena is the only important format”.

> Get Moa’d at half health
> Is dead before it wears off

Compare this to the elite skill I get as a thief, Basilisk venom, which stuns for one second, two seconds if I go 30 points into Deadly Arts. Mostly mesmers are pretty well balanced and I enjoy fighting them, but as soon as one Moas me I just sigh and wait to die. It’s kinda ridiculous. Even Blizzard had the sense to make the sheep spell break on damage, so it could be used to remove an enemy from the fight but wasn’t an “I Win” button.

@Hyde — so you don’t try to move as a Moa? How about using any of the Moa skills? Are you saying you just stop playing for 10 seconds and wait to die?

Hyde.6189:

> Get Moa’d at half health
> Is dead before it wears off

Compare this to the elite skill I get as a thief, Basilisk venom, which stuns for one second, two seconds if I go 30 points into Deadly Arts. Mostly mesmers are pretty well balanced and I enjoy fighting them, but as soon as one Moas me I just sigh and wait to die. It’s kinda ridiculous. Even Blizzard had the sense to make the sheep spell break on damage, so it could be used to remove an enemy from the fight but wasn’t an “I Win” button.

So…you don’t even look at the new abilities on your ability bar during the 10 seconds and try using them?

It’s kinda ridiculous.

Moa Morph is not Polymorph.

Basilisk Venom also doesn’t stun. That’s a very important distinction to make, and crucial when it comes to reviving people when downed.

Somna.5168:

Hyde.6189:

> Get Moa’d at half health
> Is dead before it wears off

Compare this to the elite skill I get as a thief, Basilisk venom, which stuns for one second, two seconds if I go 30 points into Deadly Arts. Mostly mesmers are pretty well balanced and I enjoy fighting them, but as soon as one Moas me I just sigh and wait to die. It’s kinda ridiculous. Even Blizzard had the sense to make the sheep spell break on damage, so it could be used to remove an enemy from the fight but wasn’t an “I Win” button.

So…you don’t even look at the new abilities on your ability bar during the 10 seconds and try using them?

It’s kinda ridiculous.

Moa Morph is not Polymorph.

TW>moa but if you use any of the abilities that moa gives you the only thing you are doing is ccing yourself.

Coolant.9732:

Somna.5168:

Hyde.6189:

> Get Moa’d at half health
> Is dead before it wears off

Compare this to the elite skill I get as a thief, Basilisk venom, which stuns for one second, two seconds if I go 30 points into Deadly Arts. Mostly mesmers are pretty well balanced and I enjoy fighting them, but as soon as one Moas me I just sigh and wait to die. It’s kinda ridiculous. Even Blizzard had the sense to make the sheep spell break on damage, so it could be used to remove an enemy from the fight but wasn’t an “I Win” button.

So…you don’t even look at the new abilities on your ability bar during the 10 seconds and try using them?

It’s kinda ridiculous.

Moa Morph is not Polymorph.

TW>moa but if you use any of the abilities that moa gives you the only thing you are doing is ccing yourself.

The point is, he just gave up when he turned into a bird. People are trained to think that transformed = no more character control from games like WoW and Rift — hence the comment about Polymorph. Then there was someone else in one of these ridiculous Moa threads testifying that OMG, I used Moa Morph when I was almost dead and it saved me! When if he was REALLY almost dead, that attacker could have easily killed him with even Moa attack abilities. They do enough damage for that.

I could see the point of the portal post, but here it’s a l2p issue. Every decent player I’ve run into will dodge or block moa if it doesn’t come from stealth and even then they are prettykittengood about avoiding the cc required to burst someone down during it.

Arena net should get off the kitten train =\

Zogyark

Creslin

Zogyark, the scenario you presented was that you had used all your dodge skills, and presumably any other escape skill or daze or whatever that could counter the mesmer. So in this scenario, you can’t counter the stun to get out of one hundred blades because your stun breaker is on cooldown.
The funny thing is that I don’t really even use moa. It takes a long time to cast, it is single target, and the moa can just run away and dodge forcing me to chase him and waste time or let him go.
Time warp can literally win an entire battle, it gives TEN SECONDS of QUICKNESS to an area…which could possibly be your entire team AND it’s an instant cast. And you are complaining about moa…which is honestly kind of funny.

Nah you don’t get the scenario.

Bull’s charge – 100 blades – stun break and move away.
staff #2 skill then Prestige or decoy, moa – you can’t stun out of moa because you’re useless now. Trust me I also play a warrior and mesmer is far superior

yes quickness is great too, but a mesmer that holds one point and the treb benefits from a moa better which successuly helps for a 1vs1 and 1vs2 while waiting on backup.

In the beginning of the thread, we said that you could just dodge out of moa morph. To this, you replied:

“Well what if I used my dodge up?”

And then I said tha if you used up your dodge and all your escape skills, then you are screwed and that is basically your fault. I also said that the same would apply to any effective skill combination like bull’s rush + frenzy + one hundred blades.

That is why in this scenario, you have already used your stun break. Your whole argument against dodge being a good counter to moa morph was that you had already used dodge up. So in the scenario where you get one hundred bladed…you would have already used up your stun break.

The point is that if your counters are on cool down, you are screwed no matter what is getting you.

I’d like you to point out where I said i used my stun break for a MOA, I save my stun breaks for these powerful skills. YOU CAN"T stunbreak from moa, you’re rendered useless for 10 secs where you can get stunned and nuked without utilitys and regular weapon skills, 10 secs is more than enough time for me to kill most classes on my mesmer.

BTW stun breaks does not = dodges

I was going to post a reply to this, but then I realized that my post above already contained the reply I would have posted lol. To sum up:

The point is that if your counters are on cool down, you are screwed no matter what is getting you.