Guild Wars 2

Hey guys. I’ve been AFK since Dark Souls 2 came out and just boomeranged my way back I don’t see too much recent discussion on these new traits, are they all pretty sub-par?

I can see Triumphant Distortion maybe being OK in a WvW build. Possibly something interesting with a shatter build around Bountiful Disillusionment + IP… even though I don’t think going down the toughness line would be very good for shatter because you’d lose so much.

But other than that it all looks pretty meh. Any insight?

Power Block can be worth it, but you won’t be able to comprehend its effects very well due to its nature. Maim the Disillusioned, I believe, has been proven to not be as good as IP. Triumphant Distortion might be good in WvW zerging, maybe. Disruptor’s Sustainment is trash, ignore it. It was just an attempt of the devs to create more diverse options for lockdown builds. As for Bountiful Disillusionment… I don’t know. If you can find a good use for it, I think it had a lot of potential, but at the moment there haven’t been any revolutionary builds around it.

Celeras.4980:

But other than that it all looks pretty meh.

That’s pretty much it. There might be some theories out there, but I haven’t seen much discussion yet.

Power Block was pretty great when it went through Defiance in pve. If only it wasn’t nerfed, reaction-based control might have a role in this game ;_;

Despite it’s issues, I like power block in medium~large group situations when I end up interrupting 3-5 people with GS5, Sword4 or Focus4. These situations make it feel “worth it”, because independent of which skill you hit you get someone out of their flow and that probably gets them dead, rallying your side.

Other than that… yeah. Bountiful Disillusionment could be worth it for PvE. Or would have been if you couldn’t freely respec now, so a PvE-loadout for 20/20/30 would have been relevant.

None of the traits we have are worth it.
You can make a build around some of them but that is going to be a way less effective way of doing x task for which we have a build that does it excellent.

The original Triumphant Distortion description noted there would be no internal cd with this skill, however there is (3-4 secs). This kills the skill for me for WvW, and definitely not worth traiting in PvP. It has a little more utility in PvE, as there you usually have plenty of mobs, but still not good. The thing is the cd destroys an already mediocre GM trait, I mean really.. mesmers aren’t know for WvW killing sprees (not helped by having limited AoE capability). All the new GM traits are junk really. Power block is probably the most useful, but interrupting can be tricky and is unreliable. Not something you can plan around.

there is 10 sec ICD, its on top right corner of the trait describtion

Wyrden.4713:

there is 10 sec ICD, its on top right corner of the trait describtion

The point is the skill was originally not suppose to have a ICD at all, but we got one when it went live. I’m not sure if they’ve change the ICD (as I haven’t used the trait for a while now), but when I tested it out in PvE/WvW it was about 3-4 cd, definately not 10sec.

tooltip of trait says 10 s, anyway , i kind of agree that its bs they made it with icd..

Dark Souls 2 has taken my life away too. x_x

Power Block’s not bad, Maim the Disillusioned can be fun and made to work, the problem is there usually happens to be better alternatives to whatever you’re trying to build.

New traits as a whole are just Traits you Take when your build doesn’t make better use of the Good traits in the line.

Power Block is ok.
BD is meh to ok.. if you can’t get use out of PU
MtD is meh if you don’t like IP and more Direct damage that it brings.

The other two.. Dont bother. Massive wastes of time or gold and sp to acquire.

I honestly love Triumphant Distortion when farming them puggies. Only reason I can run with +/- 1100 toughness &vitality.

The new mesmer GMs are pretty meh. Most of them would only be worth it as adept or master level traits. But thats true for every class’s new GM’s, the only really good one I can think off is the necro’s path of corruption, but even then, that should probably be an inherent part of the dark path skill, not a trait. And aqautic benevelonce is good on Ele, but even then its not really optimal for most builds.

I really like the idea behind the new GMs for domination, chaos, and illusions, but I feel like they’re really misplaced for the types of builds that would actually use those traits, or don’t really synergize with the playstyle that could use those traits. For example, most condition builds, don’t go into illusions whatsoever, but go heavily into dueling and chaos, so the torment shatter trait could be a better fir there. However the problem is further compounded by the fact that condition builds get way more mileage out of keeping illusions alive rather than shattering them for the torment, which is an inherent contradiction to the playstyle rather than a useful addition for it.

Similarly the new Chaos GM would be great on a non-glkittenter build, however shatter builds depend on Illusionary persona and deceptive evasion (as 98% of pvp mesmer builds do) and would not be able to pick up that trait even though it does synergize with the playstyle, because it takes away one other trait that is much more vital. If that trait were master level, and located in illusions, or even if it were to remain in chaos, it would be in a good state.

I generally agree near light, but warriors got two great new traits (Dual Wield Agility and Phalanx Strength). Shame that mesmers are this useless!

maxinion.8396:

I generally agree near light, but warriors got two great new traits (Dual Wield Agility and Phalanx Strength). Shame that mesmers are this useless!

Oh phalanx strength is new??? I don’t paly warrior at all so I just assumed it was always there :O

And yeah, I love mesmer and all, but I just feel ineffective playing it in most pve content (surprisingly) and even more ineffective running around in WvW with my guild

I’m not a very compliant veilbot I’m afraid.

Why is Illusionary Persona considered better than Maim the Disillusioned for condition builds? IP in a condition build mostly means one or two extra stacks of Confusion, while Maim the Disillusioned is up to three stacks of Torment. If nothing else MtD is considerably more reliable as it inflicts an extra condition (more to cleanse) that always deals damage and doesn’t require the user to be in melee range.

I’ve been running MtD in tPvP and I actually feel viable. Before MtD Mesmer condition is not viable in tPvP, you simply don’t put out enough pressure.

The “problem” about MtD is the low amount of torment stacks and the duration you get from one shatter (F1 – F3). You get a maximum of 3 stacks for 4sec which is not enough condi pressure to say it’s worth investing points in this GM trait. Sure you inflict other conditions but it’s not worth.

You can build a solid support shatter build with staff/scepter+torch for team fights in pvp where you can put a lot of confusion stacks on one target and the torment is, like you said an additional condition to cleanse. But except for teamfights, and there are better options then a condi-shatter build, the trait is not optimal designed.

Pyro suggested in one thread to buff the trait to 3 or 4 stacks of torment per illusion which would add enough condition pressure on your target to make this trait worth investing points. But otherwise I’d recommend IP over MtD.

Yunalesca.9850:

The “problem” about MtD is the low amount of torment stacks and the duration you get from one shatter (F1 – F3). You get a maximum of 3 stacks for 4sec which is not enough condi pressure to say it’s worth investing points in this GM trait. Sure you inflict other conditions but it’s not worth.

You can build a solid support shatter build with staff/scepter+torch for team fights in pvp where you can put a lot of confusion stacks on one target and the torment is, like you said an additional condition to cleanse. But except for teamfights, and there are better options then a condi-shatter build, the trait is not optimal designed.

Pyro suggested in one thread to buff the trait to 3 or 4 stacks of torment per illusion which would add enough condition pressure on your target to make this trait worth investing points. But otherwise I’d recommend IP over MtD.

3 stacks of Torment for 4 – 5s translates to about 2000 – 2500 damage, that’s not bad at all. Combined with Shatter Confusion, Illusion Bleeding, and possibly Burning and Poison; the Mesmer can maintain reasonable uptime for all damaging conditions, plus Vulnerability.

For a condition Mesmer, taking MtD greatly improves your damage, at the cost of survivability (you can’t take PU, but PU is a crappy trait for tPvP anyhow). Saying IP is better than MtD is misleading: what you mean to say is you think PowerShatter is better than CondiShatter, which is debatable. I’d say they’re different: before MtD Power definitely > Condi in tPvP, but now I’m not so sure.

Triumphant Distortion :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPb4dM78bvY&feature=youtu.be

Embolism.8106:

Yunalesca.9850:

The “problem” about MtD is the low amount of torment stacks and the duration you get from one shatter (F1 – F3). You get a maximum of 3 stacks for 4sec which is not enough condi pressure to say it’s worth investing points in this GM trait. Sure you inflict other conditions but it’s not worth.

You can build a solid support shatter build with staff/scepter+torch for team fights in pvp where you can put a lot of confusion stacks on one target and the torment is, like you said an additional condition to cleanse. But except for teamfights, and there are better options then a condi-shatter build, the trait is not optimal designed.

Pyro suggested in one thread to buff the trait to 3 or 4 stacks of torment per illusion which would add enough condition pressure on your target to make this trait worth investing points. But otherwise I’d recommend IP over MtD.

3 stacks of Torment for kitten translates to about 2000 – 2500 damage, that’s not bad at all. Combined with Shatter Confusion, Illusion Bleeding, and possibly Burning and Poison; the Mesmer can maintain reasonable uptime for all damaging conditions, plus Vulnerability.

For a condition Mesmer, taking MtD greatly improves your damage, at the cost of survivability (you can’t take PU, but PU is a crappy trait for tPvP anyhow). Saying IP is better than MtD is misleading: what you mean to say is you think PowerShatter is better than CondiShatter, which is debatable. I’d say they’re different: before MtD Power definitely > Condi in tPvP, but now I’m not so sure.

well 3 clones wich DO NEED TO HIT the target for merely 2-3 k dmg? in normal shatterspec u do that w 1 clone , if all 3 clones including urself hit enemy its… well.. way more dmg, lets guess over 10 k?

Wyrden.4713:

Embolism.8106:

Yunalesca.9850:

The “problem” about MtD is the low amount of torment stacks and the duration you get from one shatter (F1 – F3). You get a maximum of 3 stacks for 4sec which is not enough condi pressure to say it’s worth investing points in this GM trait. Sure you inflict other conditions but it’s not worth.

You can build a solid support shatter build with staff/scepter+torch for team fights in pvp where you can put a lot of confusion stacks on one target and the torment is, like you said an additional condition to cleanse. But except for teamfights, and there are better options then a condi-shatter build, the trait is not optimal designed.

Pyro suggested in one thread to buff the trait to 3 or 4 stacks of torment per illusion which would add enough condition pressure on your target to make this trait worth investing points. But otherwise I’d recommend IP over MtD.

3 stacks of Torment for kitten translates to about 2000 – 2500 damage, that’s not bad at all. Combined with Shatter Confusion, Illusion Bleeding, and possibly Burning and Poison; the Mesmer can maintain reasonable uptime for all damaging conditions, plus Vulnerability.

For a condition Mesmer, taking MtD greatly improves your damage, at the cost of survivability (you can’t take PU, but PU is a crappy trait for tPvP anyhow). Saying IP is better than MtD is misleading: what you mean to say is you think PowerShatter is better than CondiShatter, which is debatable. I’d say they’re different: before MtD Power definitely > Condi in tPvP, but now I’m not so sure.

well 3 clones wich DO NEED TO HIT the target for merely 2-3 k dmg? in normal shatterspec u do that w 1 clone , if all 3 clones including urself hit enemy its… well.. way more dmg, lets guess over 10 k?

That damage is from Torment alone. Remember you also have Confusion, plus you’re not restricted to Mind Wrack: Cry of Frustration and Diversion can all be used to deal comparable (or in the case of CoF, superior) damage.

Another thing to consider is that a CondiShatter spec has all the offensive capabilities of a “normal” Condi spec, i.e. Sharper Images and Winds of Chaos.

The thing about the condi spec is that it excels in defense/attrition (like most all condi builds) which is why I figure PU would still outshine Maim. If you’re going for damage, power’s gonna trump almost all the time, and in a teamfight power damage can’t be cleansed. It can be mitigated by protection/weakness, sure, but even then a shatter Mesmer rips through boons.

The problem with Maim is that it forces you to run a shatter build that’s more counterable and less effective than a normal shatter build. I just can’t see many pros to make running it worth the cons

In tPvP PU is a detriment because attrition is useless when you 1. cannot kill in a reasonable amount of time and 2. cannot contest points. IMO the defense you sacrifice by not taking PU is minor compared to the damage you gain by taking MtD: you’re still much tougher than a PowerShatter while being able to dish out much more pressure and contest points more effectively than a PU Condi.

Condi also has the advantage of not being mitigated by armour, and your opponent’s build may be less capable of dealing with condis than direct damage. For example, other Mesmers tend to be very lacking in the condi-removal front.

Again, remember that CondiShatter can use Sharper Images, Winds of Chaos, Mind Wrack, Cry of Frustration and Diversion as sources of damage, while PowerShatter is mainly just Mind Wrack and the odd Phantasm.

EDIT: To crunch some numbers, here’s how the damage of the two builds, looking at Shatter skills only, compare. Note that these are controlled tests, you can obviously achieve higher damage.

PowerShatter

Mind Wrack: 6400 + 320/cast
Cry of Frustration: 2500 + 640/cast
Diversion: 0 + 320/cast

CondiShatter

Mind Wrack: 4300 + 510/cast
Cry of Frustration: 3400 + 1020/cast
Diversion: 2500 + 510/cast

Embolism.8106:

In tPvP PU is a detriment because attrition is useless when you 1. cannot kill in a reasonable amount of time and 2. cannot contest points. IMO the defense you sacrifice by not taking PU is minor compared to the damage you gain by taking MtD: you’re still much tougher than a PowerShatter while being able to dish out much more pressure and contest points more effectively than a PU Condi.

Condi also has the advantage of not being mitigated by armour, and your opponent’s build may be less capable of dealing with condis than direct damage. For example, other Mesmers tend to be very lacking in the condi-removal front.

Again, remember that CondiShatter can use Sharper Images, Winds of Chaos, Mind Wrack, Cry of Frustration and Diversion as sources of damage, while PowerShatter is mainly just Mind Wrack and the odd Phantasm.

EDIT: To crunch some numbers, here’s how the damage of the two builds, looking at Shatter skills only, compare. Note that these are controlled tests, you can obviously achieve higher damage.

PowerShatter

Mind Wrack: 6400 + 320/cast
Cry of Frustration: 2500 + 640/cast
Diversion: 0 + 320/cast

CondiShatter

Mind Wrack: 4300 + 510/cast
Cry of Frustration: 3400 + 1020/cast
Diversion: 2500 + 510/cast

Your numbers are way off.

A mind wrack in a power shatter can easily hit 8k-10k if you get a couple crits. Additionally, you’ll only reach that maximum value for your condition hits if your target doesn’t have the presence of mind to stand still for a second or two.

Diversion is on a very long cooldown and is too useful as an interrupt to be used in this analysis. If you use diversion for torment damage, you’ve made a massive mistake.

You also seem to believe that a condie shatter build has strong defense on the level of a standard PU condie build. This is woefully false. If you want to have any utility, you’ll be forced to run 20/20/0/0/30, and so you’re losing out on a significant amount of toughness. You’re also losing out on staff cooldowns and debilitating dissipation. The aoe weakness from debilitating dissipation is vastly overlooked as a defensive factor for a clone-death build.

Overall, an S/D thief will chew you up and spit you out just like any other shatter build. Your slightly higher defense won’t matter, and your lack of pressure that can hit through evades will keep them nice and safe when fighting you. This being the case, you’re in the exact same situation as a zerker shatter build, the only difference being that the thief will take a little longer to kill you, and you don’t have the capacity for strong aoe burst that is the primary combat utility you offer.

A standard clone-death PU condie build has extremely strong defense in the form of low staff cooldowns, high toughness, and constant aoe cripple and weakness, along with the scepter block of course. Note that all of these defenses are available without stealth. This allows you to effectively skirmish on a point against something like a hambow or S/D thief without losing the point, although a hambow is a very difficult on-point fight. Noting that the hambow is a very difficult on-point fight for the highly defensive build, the condie shatter build would be decimated in seconds when trying to skirmish on point against a hambow.

Additionally, you suffer from the same vulnerabilities as a PU condie build does when facing a strong bunker such as a cleansing guardian, and so you’d be no more able to kill them than PU condie. One last thing is that a condie shatter build is absolutely un-fit for maintaining an outnumbered fight. Maintaining an outnumbered fight is one of the things that PU condie does best, and forcing enemy teams to provide you with these outnumbered fights is the primary method by which you win matches.

TL;DR: Condie shatter isn’t actually any better off in a survivability standpoint than standard glassy shatter builds. It lacks the ability to survive in an outnumbered fight, it lacks the ability to skirmish on point against a heavy aoe class such as engineer or hambow, and it completely fails in outnumbered situations that PU conditions excels at. It’s objectively worse in almost every way.

The trait is fun and enjoyable to use, and I truly wish it were viable. Unfortunately, it’s not viable, and choosing to use it is making a choice to play a significantly worse build than otherwise possible.

6400 with Mind Wrack is assuming four criticals, Compounding Power, and at least one stack of Might for Runes of Strength. You can achieve higher damage through Vulnerability and Might stacking, plus things like Sigil of Air. On the other hand you can achieve higher damage with conditions too. Remember this is tPvP, not WvW, so numbers will naturally be lower.

Fact is Diversion does damage in CondiShatter and doesn’t in PowerShatter. Every bit helps. An extra 2500 damage plus Confusion when you interrupt isn’t to be sneezed at.

I don’t see why you’re “forced” to run 20 in Domination for utility when a PU Condi build doesn’t have that utility. If you want to play as close to PU Condi as possible then there’s no reason you can’t sink 20 in Chaos for Debilitating Dissipation and Chaotic Dampening.

So, most of your argument is based on a strawman that CondiShatter is forced to run itself in a way that suits your arguments.

Embolism.8106:

6400 with Mind Wrack is assuming four criticals, Compounding Power, and at least one stack of Might for Runes of Strength. You can achieve higher damage through Vulnerability and Might stacking, plus things like Sigil of Air. On the other hand you can achieve higher damage with conditions too. Remember this is tPvP, not WvW, so numbers will naturally be lower.

Fact is Diversion does damage in CondiShatter and doesn’t in PowerShatter. Every bit helps. An extra 2500 damage plus Confusion when you interrupt isn’t to be sneezed at.

I don’t see why you’re “forced” to run 20 in Domination for utility when a PU Condi build doesn’t have that utility. If you want to play as close to PU Condi as possible then there’s no reason you can’t sink 20 in Chaos for Debilitating Dissipation and Chaotic Dampening.

So, most of your argument is based on a strawman that CondiShatter is forced to run itself in a way that suits your arguments.

The reason for 20 domination in a shatter build is boon stripping on shatter. In a PU condie build, you can accomplish this with the pDisenchanter, but that doesn’t work nearly as well in a shatter build…due to the whole shattering thing. Additionally, aoe boon stripping is one of the main reasons you’d ever bring a shatter mesmer on a team.

Sure, you can drop shattered concentration and go 20 into chaos, but what exactly have you got for that? If you’re shattering, then you’re not getting clone deaths, and if you’re getting clone deaths you’re not shattering. A 0/20/20/0/30 build is basically just a clone-death condie build with a little extra pressure from torment shattering.

Try and remember what role you’re filling on a team. A power shatter build fills the role of aoe heavy damage and boon stripping, allowing for rapid conversions from low hp to downed for multiple enemies. It also generally takes portal for team mobility. A PU condie build fills the role of light team-fight disruption and support with the aoe support conditions, but primarily is a point disruptor, taking advantage of an unguarded point to rapidly secure a decap, then force the enemy team to shift significant resources to push you out of the point.

What does a condie shatter do? You don’t have the heavy damage of a power shatter. Aoe torment is all well and good, but it doesn’t burst people down. You can decap just like a PU condie build, but what happens next? The other team can just send their S/D thief to take you out, or a hambow, or a decap engie, or a condition engie, or a condition necromancer. A condie shatter build is incredibly vulnerable to all of these builds, and only one is necessary to remove you from a point in short order, whereas a well played PU condie can maintain a fight against 2 or more people indefinitely with good play.

So again, what does condie shatter do? The answer is that it does nothing effectively. It’s not as good at dueling/outnumbered fights as PU condie, it’s not as good at team support and heavy damage as glassy shatter, so why on earth would I want it on my team?

Fay.2357:

Embolism.8106:

6400 with Mind Wrack is assuming four criticals, Compounding Power, and at least one stack of Might for Runes of Strength. You can achieve higher damage through Vulnerability and Might stacking, plus things like Sigil of Air. On the other hand you can achieve higher damage with conditions too. Remember this is tPvP, not WvW, so numbers will naturally be lower.

Fact is Diversion does damage in CondiShatter and doesn’t in PowerShatter. Every bit helps. An extra 2500 damage plus Confusion when you interrupt isn’t to be sneezed at.

I don’t see why you’re “forced” to run 20 in Domination for utility when a PU Condi build doesn’t have that utility. If you want to play as close to PU Condi as possible then there’s no reason you can’t sink 20 in Chaos for Debilitating Dissipation and Chaotic Dampening.

So, most of your argument is based on a strawman that CondiShatter is forced to run itself in a way that suits your arguments.

The reason for 20 domination in a shatter build is boon stripping on shatter. In a PU condie build, you can accomplish this with the pDisenchanter, but that doesn’t work nearly as well in a shatter build…due to the whole shattering thing. Additionally, aoe boon stripping is one of the main reasons you’d ever bring a shatter mesmer on a team.

Sure, you can drop shattered concentration and go 20 into chaos, but what exactly have you got for that? If you’re shattering, then you’re not getting clone deaths, and if you’re getting clone deaths you’re not shattering. A 0/20/20/0/30 build is basically just a clone-death condie build with a little extra pressure from torment shattering.

Try and remember what role you’re filling on a team. A power shatter build fills the role of aoe heavy damage and boon stripping, allowing for rapid conversions from low hp to downed for multiple enemies. It also generally takes portal for team mobility. A PU condie build fills the role of light team-fight disruption and support with the aoe support conditions, but primarily is a point disruptor, taking advantage of an unguarded point to rapidly secure a decap, then force the enemy team to shift significant resources to push you out of the point.

What does a condie shatter do? You don’t have the heavy damage of a power shatter. Aoe torment is all well and good, but it doesn’t burst people down. You can decap just like a PU condie build, but what happens next? The other team can just send their S/D thief to take you out, or a hambow, or a decap engie, or a condition engie, or a condition necromancer. A condie shatter build is incredibly vulnerable to all of these builds, and only one is necessary to remove you from a point in short order, whereas a well played PU condie can maintain a fight against 2 or more people indefinitely with good play.

So again, what does condie shatter do? The answer is that it does nothing effectively. It’s not as good at dueling/outnumbered fights as PU condie, it’s not as good at team support and heavy damage as glassy shatter, so why on earth would I want it on my team?

There are other options for boon removal, for example Sword Clones. It’s not AoE but it is ubiquitous and on-demand, and for any Shatter build Illusionary Leap > Swap is very useful. Blurred Frenzy, while it won’t do significant damage in a Condi build, remains a potent defence.

Like I said, if you’re determined to play like a PU Condi then you can with more damage added in through Shattering. I know PU Condi pretty well myself, having used that build since before PU got any buffs; and I’ve always Shattered pretty often for some Confusion burst: it’s not that strong but for Mesmer Condi’s low pressure it could make all the difference.

It’s true PU Condi is difficult to remove, but it has one weakness: it cannot contest points in stealth, which is after all the defining point of the build. If, as you say, PU Condi is plenty strong defensively without stealth (and that is definitely true), then a CondiShatter which runs without PU but with most of its other toys wouldn’t be that worse-off, but can dish out significantly more pressure.

A good offense can be a pretty good defense too.

(Having said all that I actually do run 20/20/0/0/30 in tPvP).

Embolism.8106:

then a CondiShatter which runs without PU but with most of its other toys wouldn’t be that worse-off, but can dish out significantly more pressure.

If that were actually possible to do, then it might work. Unfortunately, it’s not. You are required to do x/20/x/x/30 in condition shatter. This does not leave you with the options to take ‘most of its other toys’.

The defense of PU condie comes from multiple sources. Crippling dissipation for movement control. Debilitating dissipation for weakness. Chaotic dampening for higher uptime on chaos armor and more chaos storm defense. Cleansing conflagration combined with pDisenchanter for condition management. pDisenchanter for boon stripping. Scepter for a low cooldown block with a nasty kick. All of these together combine to give the build its incredibly potent defense.

You do not have the ability to take even ‘most’ of these toys in a condition shatter build. You are unable to utilize the pDisenchanter effectively, and that means you will be required to use shattered concentration for boon management. Sword clones are not in any way an effective boon stripping source in PvP. If you take shattered concentration, you are unable to take cleansing conflagration. Combined with the lack of effective pDisenchanters, you are now incredibly vulnerable to conditions. Any conditions that go on you don’t come off, and you will be melted by any condiemancer, engineer, or condie warrior that happens to sneeze on you.

If you want to take the scepter and staff for the defense and condition pressure, you now can’t take sword. This means no leap/swap, and it means that already difficult to land shatters are now even more difficult to land. You have absolutely no access to immobilize, meaning your shatters have to be absolutely perfectly set up or they’ll be dodged.

Simply put, a condition shatter is easy condition pressure to avoid. PU condition pressure is by definition impossible to avoid if you want to fight on point.

Additionally, stealth is only a detriment if you’re in a 1v1 fight on a point, which I’ve already noted can be handled without stealth. The need for stealth is in managing a 2 or 3 vs 1. This is the strength of the PU condition build, and the single reason it is possible to use effectively. When there is more than 1 enemy on a point fighting you, your team has a numbers advantage in the rest of the fight, regardless of your contesting the point. This allows you to win. A condition shatter build is not capable of this.

Embolism.8106:

A good offense can be a pretty good defense too.

While potentially true, this assumes that you have a good offense. Condition shatter does not have a good offense. It has telegraphed attacks that can be easily dodged or blocked. The damage comes with the added vulnerability of cleansing or even simply standing still to nullify the pressure. When playing against a competent opponent, condition shatter has less pressure than PU conditions. Your shatters will be dodged and blocked. Clone deaths are undodgeable and unblockable. In an on-point fight, every single clone explosion will hit your opponent, there is no way to mitigate that pressure.

Again, condition shatter is simply not good at any role in a team.

Fay.2357:

A PU condie build fills the role of light team-fight disruption and support with the aoe support conditions, but primarily is a point disruptor, taking advantage of an unguarded point to rapidly secure a decap, then force the enemy team to shift significant resources to push you out of the point.

A well played PU condie can maintain a fight against 2 or more people indefinitely with good play.

Keep that quote in mind all you PU mesmer out there as a rebuke for people who say “PU Mesmrs ar uslss in tpvp u cant cap point en stelth” like smug little parrots.

I feel that several of them are good to very good (Power block, BD, triumphant distortion, maim) but are either placed wrong in the trait line or else is extremely hard to pick due to build synergy or other choices in the GM tier. It’s rather unfortunate.

Examples; Triumphant Distortion is a neat effect but it cannot really compete with the other choices, and since it’s a GM trait it has only 1 possible slot. Bountiful Disillusionment is very nice but it has the unfortunate placement of only being usable in the slot that already has a build-creating trait for 2+ other strong builds (Interrupt build, PU).

I feel like they are mostly held back because of 1. GM traits only having 1 possible slot and 2. placement in the trait line. As for Disruptor’s Sustainment, it isn’t even that bad on paper, but I think mesmer has too little opportunity to make the most out of it.

Disruptor’s Sustainment is a trait designed to improve a playstyle that does not exist in this class: on-demand healing.

Outside of regen (passive, over time heal) and the default heal skill (which does not scale much based on healing power), what do mesmers have to create some healing bursts? Water fields? Blast finishers? Healing weapon skills? Is mesmer an elementalist? No? Healing light fields? Is mesmer a guardian too?

Ultimately, it’s hard to shake the feeling that traits like those were created without much consideration or knowledge about what the mesmer is and isn’t.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Disruptor’s Sustainment is a trait designed to improve a playstyle that does not exist in this class: on-demand healing.

Outside of regen (passive, over time heal) and the default heal skill (which does not scale much based on healing power), what do mesmers have to create some healing bursts? Water fields? Blast finishers? Healing weapon skills? Is mesmer an elementalist? No? Healing light fields? Is mesmer a guardian too?

Ultimately, it’s hard to shake the feeling that traits like those were created without much consideration or knowledge about what the mesmer is and isn’t.

There’s Restorative Mantras, but the scaling with Healing Power on that is so bad that it doesn’t help much.

Right. My opinions are about the same as they were once the new traits were unveiled.

• P. Block: IMHO should get at least part of the “bugged” version back. Namely because there were some interesting uses then
• Triumphant: I’m still waiting for what the class was freaking promised, re: this Trait. Kindly drop the ICD, already.
• Bountiful: I havent used it, but it feels to be in a weird place for a trait that’d help a boonshare/shatter combo.
• Disruptor’s: Needs to DIAF, yesterday.
• Maim: I use it myself on occasion, but tbh … it really needs the stacks/shatter upped. One idea would be to do it like its Confusion-causing cousin, although adding the “double stack” effect to another Shatter. I personally think putting it as Mind Wrack = extra Torment could work out.