Guild Wars 2

• it requires a 4.5 second cast time
• some of them have a cool down
• untraited you can only use them twice

I know their unique to the profession but I hardly see anyone else use them. Other abilities do the same thing but better. The heal sucks, heals for 2k each cast, which is less then our given heal at level 1. The 3 condition cleanse is out done by null field. Only the stability mantra is unique to the class, but it only grants 2 seconds of stability. Pain is ok for burst but you can probably do without it, like everyone else does. I never tried the daze yet, so I have nothing to say about it.

I feel that how the mantra’s are at the moment are just to weak and awkward to use. The only reason to use them is if your using them for a build for pure damage like this thread right here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Mesmer-Lancer-Build. Other then that, I think everyone would like to see changes to how Mantra’s behave.

One possible way is to make them recharge on their own in combat, full recharge every 20 seconds, but they only recharge when you used them all up, therefore avoiding infinite mantra charges. While out of combat they recharge to full in 5 seconds, this eliminates cast time on each of them, while allowing the Mesmer to do w/e they please.

This is just my suggestion, I would like you hear what you guys think.

I wouldn’t say that MoRec sucks. Without trait or illusions out, MoRec heals almost as much as Ether Feast(300 lower). With trait, MoRec goes up to 7.8k, while with 3 illusions out, Ether Feast goes to 7.3k. MoRec is harder to use though, due to its cast time, so Ether Feast is a better choice for most moments. Don’t forget that Mantras can be used while stunned. It also has the potential to remove 2/3 conditions if you get the trait for the removal of a condition on heal.

MoRes is ok. You can take away 4/6 conditons within 2/3s every 20s, if you’re willing to spend 4.5s cast time.. but that’s for yourself only. While Null Field is better at groups stuffs.

I like the ideas about Mantras, but my only concern is that everything is self or single target.. It makes me feel awkward and selfish..
MoRes: Remove conditions from myself. Nothing for allies.
MoCon: Breaks stun and grant 2s of Stability to myself. Nothing for allies.
Another thing is that they uncharge whenever you change map, annoying.

I wish they were tweaked a little..

I’m not fond of them in general, but I have to admit that 2-3 stunbreakers/preventers in one slot is actually really nice. That’s the only one that really feels like it takes full advantage of the system. Dazing and cleansing aren’t terrible either, but I really hate the ones that do nothing but plain damage/healing. I’m not going to use those until that actual heal counts as a healing spell so I can pull some shenanigans with on-heal effects.

EDIT: I guess I’m saying I don’t have a problem with the system itself so much as the effects not really being worth the trouble.

I do not use them. If they offered useful passive, like a movement speed increase or buffed our illusions, I may have picked them.

The cast time is a bit high but they do pair well with the stealth skills.

They are quite good if fully traited. The problem is how weak they are if not traited. Only MoD I see having much use without traits, and that is if you’re traited around interruptions.

Resolve only leaves my bar for dungeons. Soloing its the condition recovery that works best for me.

I agree they are cumbersome. Not bad if you only have one but a full bar made me sad. And if you trait them heavily you would want to bring a bunch.

The thing about Mantras are that the only mechanics that are unique to them are the down sides (the casting). Shouts, some signets and even one of Eles air attacks can all be used while doing other things.

Mantras reset when going in and out of water. This alone makes them completely useless for me.

Ianervan.3415:

Mantras reset when going in and out of water. This alone makes them completely useless for me.

They do now? They didn’t reset for me when I was using them like a week ago.

They only reset if you don’t have them on your underwater skill bar. If you have them on your bar they’re fine.

Also MoP charges in like half a second underwater.

well the healing one have its merits imo, since once they are charged they are instant cast. Problem comes when you have to charge them mid battle again :/ so great for small intense fights but bad for longer drawn out once where you might need many heals.
The condition removal not too bad either, though i still prefer null field even solo as it can remove enemy boons as well

“Also MoP charges in like half a second underwater.”

That was in patch notes as “fixed” so I assume it’s normal charge time now.

It’d like to see Mantra’s act similar to sigils.
If you put a Mantra in a slot you auto-get that Mantra’s stacks. Once both stacks are used you need to wait 5 seconds for it to reload.
Adjust the reload time as nessesary.

just a tip that many people do not understand, thus believing mantras are weaker than they actually are: Mantras can be casted while not facing the enemy, meas u ran away and u can cast the mantra of pain lets say to the enemy that chases u. The other thing is that mantras can be casted during induction without interrupting… so practically u can cast a mantra while preparing another one (or casting any other skill).

I don’t see them reducing the casting time of Mantras without doing something to Restorative Mantras, which basically turns each Mantra into a 2.6k (@80 with base 200 Healing Power) PBAoE heal when you’re preparing them for use.

I used to think Mantra’s sucked as well. But the more I’ve been playing in WvW (And PvP-ing in the mystic portal area) the more I’ve started to like them. While I still use null field mostly because it also removes enemy boons, the condition removal and stability ones have been a part of my bar in quite some situations by now.

I do agree that they could use some kind of tweak though.

My “plain damage” Mantra can crit for up to 4850 damage on lowbies when I have max buffs. Oh wait, I didn’t eat a truffle steak … time to go for new numbers.

Tbh, I’m pretty happy with my Mantras atm after a few weeks of using them.

I’ll need to play with them more, but my experience has been as follows:

• Cast time is painfully slow and remembering to charge them is not fun, just put them on a cooldown
• I’m focusing less on actions 1-5 and more on 6-9, as I am constantly having to check and recharge my mantras
• Does not feel as though it synergizes well with primary class mechanics (illusions)
• Effects aren’t appealing enough
• Recharging every time I zone makes me want to shoot myself in the face

^

After using them for awhile you’ll remember to charge them all the time and it’s a non-issue. Bit of a learning curve / practice required though. Like building a new reflex.

I spent a bit of time doing story quests while forcing myself to use full Mantras, put on some Eye of the Tiger. Now I have tiger blood.

Galmarrar.1098:

… The other thing is that mantras can be casted during induction without interrupting… so practically u can cast a mantra while preparing another one (or casting any other skill).

My interpretation of this statement is that all mantras can be charged simultaneously. Is this accurate? If so, it makes mantras a much more appealing option for me. I also don’t know why I haven’t attempted it.

I really need to not read these forums while at work, as now all I want to do is go home and test this.

Griim.5142:

Galmarrar.1098:

… The other thing is that mantras can be casted during induction without interrupting… so practically u can cast a mantra while preparing another one (or casting any other skill).

My interpretation of this statement is that all mantras can be charged simultaneously. Is this accurate? If so, it makes mantras a much more appealing option for me. I also don’t know why I haven’t attempted it.

I really need to not read these forums while at work, as now all I want to do is go home and test this.

I believe he mean you can use a charge of a readied mantra while charging a mantra, since charged mantras are instant and doesn’t interrupt you. Meaning, if you’re channeling, say Confusion Images(Scepter 3), you can use a mantra charge without stopping channeling Scepter 3.

^
Precisely, but he was referring specifically to using, for example, Power Spike (mantra of pain charges) while charging up Mantra of Recovery. E.g. the long charge time of the mantras is slightly mitigated by being able to use the charges of all your other mantras in a mantra build at the same time.

One of the most annoying parts to me is that you can use partial charges, but the cooldown timer doesn’t start until you’ve used the last charge. If you have 3 charges of Mantra then used one and are dropped out of combat, should you just waste 2 charges to set off the cooldown? Then wait X seconds before spending the 4s to charge it again?

I’ve found when I’m running Mantras that I tend to spend way too much time inbetween skirmishes just sitting there resetting all my Mantras to make sure I’m at optimal combat potential, and it gets pretty tedious after a while.

The thing that bugs me the most is why Mantra’s traits are so separated. We have Harmonious Mantra all the way at the other end of Power, Empowering Mantra all the way in precision, Restorative Mantra 20 points in healing. First of all aren’t Mantra’s some what supportive? why is Harmonious all the way at the end of the power tree? I mean Mantra’s are great and all, but the traits to make them useful, are sorta pointless. I think most of Harmonious mantra should be at the end of the healing trait line, since most of the mantras are defensive.

How mantra’s recharge is a pain, 4 seconds to cast, plus a cool down… I think they need to remove the 4 second cast time, it seems weird that the mantra goes on cool down, and you gotta cast 4 seconds to recharge it, why don’t we just add the 4 second recharge time to the cool down, rather then having the mesmer cast it. The cast time makes it really unattractive.

^

Harmonious Mantras and Restorative Mantras don’t synergize with each other. RM becomes weaker as a raw heal effect when you have HM.

Also, RM focuses on Mantra of Pain with a little Mantra of Recovery. Harmonious Mantras really enhances Resolve, Distraction, and Concentration the most, with a little Recovery. I mean, HM enhances Pain as well, but it really helps the other ones a lot more.

Also, the way the trait trees are designed, players are not supposed to “take all Mantra traits”. Restorative Mantras is in the healing/support tree because it adds a heal/support effect to existing abilities. What support Mesmer would want to go up Dom or Dueling to get a heal for the group?

Similarly, HM does not help your group. Not only does it make RM more difficult to use, but none of the Mantra effects have direct group benefit from HM. HM is a “selfish” trait that buffs abilities that only affect you. Hence glass DPS build and so 30 in Dom.

EM is in Dueling because both EM and HM are strong enough to be master traits at 30 points, and if they were in the same tree, you could only take one of the two traits. This way you can take both.

Sidenote: EM has a slight de-synergy with Restorative Mantras similar to HM.

If you have 3 charges of Mantra then used one and are dropped out of combat, should you just waste 2 charges to set off the cooldown? Then wait X seconds before spending the 4s to charge it again?

Depends on Mantra. I like to maintain Pain at 2-3, Resolve at 1+, Concentration at 1+. If I anticipate a lul I will still reset Resolve/Conc at 1. I will reset Pain even for a very short disengage if it’s at 1. Recovery I like to keep at 3, but I will leave it at 2 unless there’s a short lul.

After a while you get into the habit of judging when you feel like you want to reset each Mantra. Pain and Recovery are the quickest to reset, and the ones you want to focus on. Conc/Resolve are Mantra you can be lazy about and think about when direct fighting dies down, although you do want to reset them eventually.

EasymodeX, do you feel like you are playing the whack-a-mole more with the mantras then when in combat, especially during long fights?

As I mentioned earlier, my issue with mantras is that they require too much focus, before and during a fight, to use effectively. This detracts from my focus on weapon skills or illusions. Perhaps it is just that I prefer a different play style, which is understandable. Either way, I would enjoy mantras more if they fit in more smoothly with everything else. I think the biggest improvement, for me, would just be to put them on a cooldown rather than requiring the player to keep them charged properly.

Well, I don’t really pay attention to my weapon skills. Those are all in the reflexes, as it were. 0 mental attention required.

For Mantras, I have Pain down to pure reflex. I don’t actually check charges mid-fight in general (Resolve/Conc) — I do that when I back off and disengage.

The only Mantra I actually pay attention to in a fight at all is Recovery, so I can time when to disengage and when to use it while pushing.

There’s a significant learning curve for Mantras since they have such a different paradigm, but once you get used to them it’s not a big deal for the most part — it’s just a different set of habits which is why people find them awkward.

Edit: I think the key to the whack-a-mole feel is that each Mantra is different — don’t treat them all as “Mantras”. You have a heal, a damage spike, a condition removal, and a stability (and a daze). Each Mantra has different patterns where you may need to reset them, let them go, or disengage to recharge them.

I mean, do you treat Mimic, Arcane Thievery, and Blink the same way because they’re “Manipulations”? No — same deal with Mantras.

If ANet switched it to a normal cooldown system, they would have to significantly nerf/change the Mantras as they stand. Currently, Mantras have lower cooldowns and more frequent uses for similar effects as other abilities. E.g., without charging they would be overpowered. The cooldowns would have to be nerfed, and the number of charges probably reduced to “1”.

Mantra of Pain would be unique since it has no cooldown and would have to have its raw damage buffed, which would be hilarious.

Overall it just requires a different adaptation of playstyle. No different than Ranger Spirits, Necro Minions, Thief … Traps?, Warrior Banners. These things are different to manage. Mantras are lucky to be the most awkward since they use an inverse playstyle to the normal cooldown-use approach.

Still, it’s not a problem after you get used to them — much the same as with every other aspect of the class (and of all classes). It’s all learning curve, and way too many players don’t believe they need to learn.