Guild Wars 2

I’m just gonna try to keep it as polite as possible, can we finally change this skill already?
The nerf on it was too big and it made no sense. Sure, I CBA it doesnt immune shocking aura or the increase of the cooldown, but this retal damage is getting out of my mind.

http://www.twitch.tv/doiidrg/c/4304131

This is just 1 example out of many. I start of with 14k hp and I just melt to around 4k. And why? Because I use 1 skill. That’s right, 1 skill that hits me for almost more than I hit them.

It just annoys me every time I play in raids how much survivability it costs me to actually deal damage. What’s the purpose of blurred frenzy? I mean, it doesnt hit that hard, it seems as a pretty defensive skill to me even. So why make retaliation, which is already the most braindead boon in this game, go through it? Or why 8 hits?
Let’s say I get hit for 350 retal damage and I hit 3 (max targets) people.
That would mean 8×3×350 retal damage from this skill alone (which is actually pretty low as it only requires you to have 2100 power. Some people easily get up to 2800 power with might stacks).
Add another 10 targets to that cause of shatter and another 5 targets cause of the prestige and you would come down to 39×350. A total of 13650 damage. Asuming you would run around 20k with guard stacks in WvW, that would mean you burst 68,25% of your hp away with 1 ‘’burst combo’‘. It’s almost a suicide bomb.
And then you would expect we would have more sources of dealing good spike damage. Well guess again, we don’t. Unless you think you’re usefull by spamming 1 on your lovely greatsword, you can better pretend that null field is also so much better than wells directly.

So yeah, can we finally remove retal damage from blurred frenzy already? Or at least reduce the amount of hits from 8 to 6 so I take 2.1k less damage when actually trying to deal damage as mesmer.

/rantover

I totally agree. The patch that nerfed Blurred Frenzy, the cooldown for it and staff CD’s was the start of the downfall of the Mesmer class. I can’t remember if the nerf to Blinding Befuddlement was the same patch or before but also made Mesmer glamour AoE builds nonviable.

The reason for the change was because Blurred Frenzy had no countermeasures beforehand. When in use, a mesmer was invincible as even environmental hazards did nothing to them and that is bad game design. The nerf was necessary to keep gameplay fair for those fighting against a mesmer and to promote tactical thought behind its use. I’m not one to say “learn2play” but you’re suppose to check for retaliation before using it and I’m hard-pressed to think of any class that can strip boons better than a mesmer can.

The one thing I do agree on is that also nerfing to its cooldown was unnecessary. Just one of the two changes would have been more than enough to keep it inline and I prefer the first as it requires more conscious thought on the players’ behalf.

I’d prefer change evade to invuln on hitting an enemy with one hit of blurred frenzy – that should negate retaliation completely.

“I don’t pay attention to retal so clearly this skill should be buffed so retal doesn’t affect me”.

Yep, this is definitely the gw2 forums.

Curunen.8729:

I’d prefer change evade to invuln on hitting an enemy with one hit of blurred frenzy – that should negate retaliation completely.

And that would just cause retaliation to become worthless.

maha.7902:

“I don’t pay attention to retal so clearly this skill should be buffed so retal doesn’t affect me”.

Yep, this is definitely the gw2 forums.

To be fair, thinking about it I take back that part of my reply – I rarely put myself in a situation as to faceplant directly into retal without doing something about it first.

However I would like to see the skill encourage people to go into melee, hence changing evade to invuln on hit – at range you could still get hit by a static field or whatever, if you try to use BF defensively, but if you go in to hit your opponent you get rewarded by full invuln for the remaining duration of the channel.

Crossplay.2067:

Curunen.8729:

I’d prefer change evade to invuln on hitting an enemy with one hit of blurred frenzy – that should negate retaliation completely.

And that would just cause retaliation to become worthless.

BF is one skill – plenty of other skills that can cause you to eat retal damage.

Curunen.8729:

BF is one skill – plenty of other skills that can cause you to eat retal damage.

Multi-hit attacks are where retaliation truly shines. If you nerf it here, warriors will want it nerfed for 100-blades and thieves for Unload. Again, Retaliation would lose its meaning as a countermeasure.

Hmm I see your point – not sure what to think about this now!

Crossplay.2067:

Curunen.8729:

BF is one skill – plenty of other skills that can cause you to eat retal damage.

Multi-hit attacks are where retaliation truly shines. If you nerf it here, warriors will want it nerfed for 100-blades and thieves for Unload. Again, Retaliation would lose its meaning as a countermeasure.

I would agree with you if we had other forms of being useful against blobs, but sadly mesmer has to rely on immunty’s and evades. Not like warrior who can facetank everything with 30k hp, massive armor and good stability upkeep. Then also, 100b hits much harder, hits slower to easier to react to the damage and as mentioned before, is not a requirement to cast to bomb with the melee.
As for unload, thats a single target skill. You don’t get affected by multiple retal damage.

As for those who say I can’t look at if they have retal on or not; in an environment with 25v50, you’re not gonna check every person if they have retaliation on or not cause 90% will have it on, especially melee. If there would be other ways of applying reasonable amount of damage against blobs i’d love to hear it.

If 90% will have it then don’t use blurred frenzy.

You know, maybe you should just accept that you can’t apply decent melee damage in ZvZ and move on.

You’ve never used Ice Bow on a group of people before then.

As I posted earlier on the suggestion forum I think the real problem is that the current retaliation design and implementation is broken.

maha.7902:

If 90% will have it then don’t use blurred frenzy.

You know, maybe you should just accept that you can’t apply decent melee damage in ZvZ and move on.

Yes maybe we should shut ourselves off from everything that is broken in this game and just watch how this game of bugs will continue dying while everyone is pretending there’s nothing to worry about.

@hihey
Well, the max amount of hits would be 100 ( i guess? Since 20 shards is max and has a 5 targets maximum?) but the chance such small radius aoe’kitten 5 targets constantly is really low, so I highly doubt it will be much more retal damage than BF does to you.

As I posted earlier on the suggestion forum I think the real problem is that the current retaliation design and implementation is broken.

Retaliation’s point is to discourage landing lots of fast hits. Clearly it’s doing its job and its implementation isn’t broken just because you don’t like it.

Yes maybe we should shut ourselves off from everything that is broken in this game and just watch how this game of bugs will continue dying while everyone is pretending there’s nothing to worry about.

It’s not broken at all, you just want to be able to use blurred frenzy in ZvZ but don’t like that you just obliterate yourself through retaliation if you do it. How about rather than calling the game broken, full of bugs and dying and any other hyperbole you can think of, you take a second, think “maybe I need to adapt my playstyle” and when you’re up against a zerg you don’t suicide yourself with retaliation next time?

maha.7902:

As I posted earlier on the suggestion forum I think the real problem is that the current retaliation design and implementation is broken.

Retaliation’s point is to discourage landing lots of fast hits. Clearly it’s doing its job and its implementation isn’t broken just because you don’t like it.

Yes maybe we should shut ourselves off from everything that is broken in this game and just watch how this game of bugs will continue dying while everyone is pretending there’s nothing to worry about.

It’s not broken at all, you just want to be able to use blurred frenzy in ZvZ but don’t like that you just obliterate yourself through retaliation if you do it. How about rather than calling the game broken, full of bugs and dying and any other hyperbole you can think of, you take a second, think “maybe I need to adapt my playstyle” and when you’re up against a zerg you don’t suicide yourself with retaliation next time?

1 problem though, there’s nothing to adapt to. If you adapt yourself to not jumping in, releasing your bomb and gtfo then you’re doing nothing. Oh wait, we can always spam #1 greatsword. Yeah that definitely is gonna improve my gameplay so much more and makes this game so much more fun. Or are we actually forced to reroll another class because arenanet clearly wanted specific roles to classes?

Blurred Frenzy was one of the only ways to stay alive using a Shatter build inside a zerg. I mean half the time, your clones/illusions die before you even get to shatter them.

Well I guess you do nothing then.

ANet wanted specific roles for classes; your role is portals, veils, projectile reflection, condition cleansing, boon stripping, quickness, pulls and ranged pressure in WvW. Just because you dislike that doesn’t mean the game is broken in any way.

hihey.1075:

You’ve never used Ice Bow on a group of people before then.

Using the bow against the hawks in the pavillion will down you in less than 1s.

Regarding Blurred Frenzy, the nerf back then was a bit over the top. Cooldown increase and in most situations a quite significant utility reduction. Still, I don’t like skills which lack any counter measures. Therefore, I’m mostly fine with it as long as we are talking about 1vs1. However, as others pointed out, it is suicide in every group scenario. You can’t keep track of the boons of every opponent and Retaliation can down you instantly. If Blurr can’t be changed back to Distortion I’d appretiate the number of hits being reduced to 4-6 instead of 8.

BlackDevil.9268:

@hihey
Well, the max amount of hits would be 100 ( i guess? Since 20 shards is max and has a 5 targets maximum?) but the chance such small radius aoe’kitten 5 targets constantly is really low, so I highly doubt it will be much more retal damage than BF does to you.

I don’t know if the max amount of hits is 100 or 60, but I can guarantee that I literally KILLED myself with one use of Ice Bow #4 a few times. And I had 20k-ish HP at that time. Do your math.

There are a lot of skills which get hugely affected by Retaliation damage. Engineers grenades are another example: when traited with Grenadier, you throw 3 grenades each with a cap of 3 people. So you could get up to 9 ticks of Reta per volley.

Wells are another example: 5 pulses, each affecting up to 5 people. That’s 25 ticks of reta.

maha.7902:

Well I guess you do nothing then.

ANet wanted specific roles for classes; your role is portals, veils, projectile reflection, condition cleansing, boon stripping, quickness, pulls and ranged pressure in WvW. Just because you dislike that doesn’t mean the game is broken in any way.

Projectile reflection is useless and only deals more damage to yourself by retaliation than you apply to them.
Veils and portals are both out of combat skills. It doesnt affect in combat gameplay.
Boon stripping is mostly only possible with null field, but most of all with shatter. You can’t shatter if you die cause of retal damage.
The aoe condition cleanse on mesmer requires you to stay really close to your guys and is really poor compared to the other classes such as guardian and warrior. Also most ppl run -condition duration food. Cleansing is not that needed.
You have 1 pull on a very long cooldown. It’s not even close to being as good as any CC a warrior can do.
Our ranged preasure is like eh…. 0? It’s also multi-hitting like blurred frenzy so you will get melted by blurred frenzy as it is 9 hits of retal every 1.5 sec.
The quickness is very static and is nerfed by 50% so it makes no sense

Another thing, of all things you listed, 7 of those are either elites or utilities. Since when do we have so many slots?

Game isn’t broken but the class is. Reversing the Blinding Befuddlement would be a good start and provide a little more zerg/AoE viability. It’s also hard to boon strip when the best way to do that is Shatter (oh noes retal!)

Portal/Veil don’t get you loot or WXP. Hell, if you want more loot bags and faster WXP, play Warrior not Mesmer.

Here’s a simple solution. The best way to boon strip a zerg is Null Field. Just one mesmer will strip up to 5 boons from 5 different people or 1 boon from 25 different people. Feel free to blink in and slash to your heart’s content after that.

As much as people dislike it, and the implementation is perhaps heavy handed, it is nonetheless necessary.

For a good game, you need play and counter-play, and you also need a counter-counter play. Blurred Frenzy is a play or counter-play, you can either use it up front for it’s damage, or you can activate it counter an enemy’s play and evade their attacks. What it lacked, was a counter-counter, even if an enemy knew you might use it there was no hard counter he could sue to prevent you using it.

You can still counter-counter-counter, by using null field or a similar boon strip, to nullify retaliation, rendering your counters effective. So you’re not powerless

I just want the recharge nerf reverted, then I’ll be happy.

maha.7902:

Well I guess you do nothing then.

ANet wanted specific roles for classes; your role is portals, veils, projectile reflection, condition cleansing, boon stripping, quickness, pulls and ranged pressure in WvW. Just because you dislike that doesn’t mean the game is broken in any way.

8 out of 8 of your role specific examples won’t or can’t ensure a tag for a bag.

This whole idea that Blurred Frenzy “lacked any counter” is complete nonsense.

Many, many skills in this game lack counters by this bizarre definition that a defensive skill should have damage go through it. Blurred Frenzy is rather tame in that it roots the caster; the same cannot be said for Obsidian Flesh, Gear Block, Counterattack, etc.

The proper response to Blurred Frenzy was to move away from the damage arc and not toss high value skills into the blur effect. The nerf changed nothing in this regard (it’s still the appropriate response to a sword Mesmer) but only served to introduce silliness like the OP’s experience.

The only thing i don’t like about BF is the damage. ~800 per tick is quite low considering that i take about half of that back as retal.

I’m mostly using the skill defensively since the standard #3→#3→#2 is easy to avoid anyway but even than i think it gets vastly outshined by Warrior’s whirlwind attack which does more damage realiably, moves and is on a shorter cd. The only thing speaking for BF is the longer evade which makes the skill quite defensive.

BlackDevil.9268:

maha.7902:

As I posted earlier on the suggestion forum I think the real problem is that the current retaliation design and implementation is broken.

Retaliation’s point is to discourage landing lots of fast hits. Clearly it’s doing its job and its implementation isn’t broken just because you don’t like it.

Yes maybe we should shut ourselves off from everything that is broken in this game and just watch how this game of bugs will continue dying while everyone is pretending there’s nothing to worry about.

It’s not broken at all, you just want to be able to use blurred frenzy in ZvZ but don’t like that you just obliterate yourself through retaliation if you do it. How about rather than calling the game broken, full of bugs and dying and any other hyperbole you can think of, you take a second, think “maybe I need to adapt my playstyle” and when you’re up against a zerg you don’t suicide yourself with retaliation next time?

1 problem though, there’s nothing to adapt to. If you adapt yourself to not jumping in, releasing your bomb and gtfo then you’re doing nothing. Oh wait, we can always spam #1 greatsword. Yeah that definitely is gonna improve my gameplay so much more and makes this game so much more fun. Or are we actually forced to reroll another class because arenanet clearly wanted specific roles to classes?

yeah i rerolled necro and am leveling a guard right now. atm there is GWEN that ecah has a unique role while being able to deal good aoe dmg and cc and then we have TREM which all can either 111 from the back or all fill the 1 role of ganking….i chose mes not thief, so i dont wanna have to be a ganker. mes used to be great in wvw, anet overrreacted, did not shafe but rather nerfed everything to the ground… so now we are stuck as veilbots that are squishy and have a hard time to espace the massive cc spam and meleetrains….
i doubt that anet will fix the issue with mes being viable in zvz, so i rerolled. im tired of patches that only include tooltip fixes, 1-3 new bugs and maybe 1 unimportant bugfix!
traitsneed work, traitlines need rework, skills and utilities need rework, we need a viable non ai wvw build, certain nerfs need to be looked at again and all the bugs that keep piling up need to be adressed…so far i have seen absolutely no real work done for mes at all apart from nerfs since more than a year.
seriously loved my mes, but atm i cant stand playing it and im not gonna wait another year to get 1 single change that mayyyybe will help wvw mes!

Iavra.8510:

The only thing i don’t like about BF is the damage. ~800 per tick is quite low considering that i take about half of that back as retal.

I’m mostly using the skill defensively since the standard #3->#3->#2 is easy to avoid anyway but even than i think it gets vastly outshined by Warrior’s whirlwind attack which does more damage realiably, moves and is on a shorter cd. The only thing speaking for BF is the longer evade which makes the skill quite defensive.

It’s easy to avoid if the Mesmer is predictable. Just because you sent your clone out doesn’t mean you will swap to it right away, or even at all..

You can mix it up with other things too.. For example- ppl ressing someone? You can precast BF and blink on top of them..

That’s my favorite, BF + Blink through a static field, nobody expects that… at least in my world

Crossplay.2067:

Here’s a simple solution. The best way to boon strip a zerg is Null Field. Just one mesmer will strip up to 5 boons from 5 different people or 1 boon from 25 different people. Feel free to blink in and slash to your heart’s content after that.

Necro well is so much better than null field. Besides, null field is way too static. It’s really slow, quite low radius and obvious enough to move out. No enemy guild is gonna stay at 1 spot for 5 seconds and turtle up like some idiots. Those who do in blobs will most likely get killed before the full duration went through or are on a spot where you can easily move out of the null field.

Ryuujin.8236:

You can still counter-counter-counter, by using null field or a similar boon strip, to nullify retaliation, rendering your counters effective. So you’re not powerless

In theory, yes. But it doesn’t work like that. Boons get re-applied much faster than they get stripped. Another thing is that retaliation doesnt get stripped first. It’s mostly might or swiftness. And even if retal gets stripped, as mentioned before, it will be up in no time. The shatter boon stripping will be too slow and heavy shatter bombs are very situational. You can’t just wait for the necro’s or yourself to strip retal from the enemy and then jump in to deal damage . It just doesnt work like that.

BlackDevil.9268:

maha.7902:

Well I guess you do nothing then.

ANet wanted specific roles for classes; your role is portals, veils, projectile reflection, condition cleansing, boon stripping, quickness, pulls and ranged pressure in WvW. Just because you dislike that doesn’t mean the game is broken in any way.

Projectile reflection is useless and only deals more damage to yourself by retaliation than you apply to them.
Veils and portals are both out of combat skills. It doesnt affect in combat gameplay.
Boon stripping is mostly only possible with null field, but most of all with shatter. You can’t shatter if you die cause of retal damage.
The aoe condition cleanse on mesmer requires you to stay really close to your guys and is really poor compared to the other classes such as guardian and warrior. Also most ppl run -condition duration food. Cleansing is not that needed.
You have 1 pull on a very long cooldown. It’s not even close to being as good as any CC a warrior can do.
Our ranged preasure is like eh…. 0? It’s also multi-hitting like blurred frenzy so you will get melted by blurred frenzy as it is 9 hits of retal every 1.5 sec.
The quickness is very static and is nerfed by 50% so it makes no sense

Another thing, of all things you listed, 7 of those are either elites or utilities. Since when do we have so many slots?

If you take a bar of veil, null field, blink and time warp you have access to six of the things I mentioned. And sure, most people take lemongrass food but that’s why condis can just take koi cakes to nullify the condition reduction. So what I’m seeing so far is that mesmers have roles – niche roles – but you dislike them and aren’t willing to pay any attention to retaliation so you want blurred frenzy buffed. Here what I recommend – stop suiciding yourself and actually try picking your targets.

maha.7902:

BlackDevil.9268:

maha.7902:

Well I guess you do nothing then.

ANet wanted specific roles for classes; your role is portals, veils, projectile reflection, condition cleansing, boon stripping, quickness, pulls and ranged pressure in WvW. Just because you dislike that doesn’t mean the game is broken in any way.

Projectile reflection is useless and only deals more damage to yourself by retaliation than you apply to them.
Veils and portals are both out of combat skills. It doesnt affect in combat gameplay.
Boon stripping is mostly only possible with null field, but most of all with shatter. You can’t shatter if you die cause of retal damage.
The aoe condition cleanse on mesmer requires you to stay really close to your guys and is really poor compared to the other classes such as guardian and warrior. Also most ppl run -condition duration food. Cleansing is not that needed.
You have 1 pull on a very long cooldown. It’s not even close to being as good as any CC a warrior can do.
Our ranged preasure is like eh…. 0? It’s also multi-hitting like blurred frenzy so you will get melted by blurred frenzy as it is 9 hits of retal every 1.5 sec.
The quickness is very static and is nerfed by 50% so it makes no sense

Another thing, of all things you listed, 7 of those are either elites or utilities. Since when do we have so many slots?

If you take a bar of veil, null field, blink and time warp you have access to six of the things I mentioned. And sure, most people take lemongrass food but that’s why condis can just take koi cakes to nullify the condition reduction. So what I’m seeing so far is that mesmers have roles – niche roles – but you dislike them and aren’t willing to pay any attention to retaliation so you want blurred frenzy buffed. Here what I recommend – stop suiciding yourself and actually try picking your targets.

Can you read? Or maybe better question, are you a mesmer? No one is using koi cakes. Not even necro’s. Those who do will only get nullified by the condition cleanse. Mesmer is not there to cleanse conditions. Null field is way too static and if you want conditions to be cleansed you go do a healing regroup.
As mentioned before time warp got nerfed 50% and is also too static…. Read please…
Veil is a skill used out of combat. It adds nothing to your in combat gameplay.

Try picking your targets? You mean focus backline? Well surprise surprise, you gonna get smashed in seconds if you gonna jump out of your melee to focus a few targets, cause the moment you do that you will have 5-10 dudes on you. You are only summing up skills who ‘’seem to be nice’’ to you, but in practice they’re all kitten, have a way too long cooldown, are way too slow or deal 0 damage.

Then if they’re really that bad then don’t take your mesmer. If mesmer’s your only class, reroll. If you don’t want to reroll, quit.

It’s pretty hilarious that you actually want ANet to balance around WvW which is inherently an unbalanced game mode. You’re a funny guy.

Your arguments are useless. Just leave this thread if you have nothing constructive to say.

If everyone would do what you just said you would have a game with 10% of the current population.

How are my arguments useless when you’re the one saying things like “retal is a brainless boon” and “can we finally remove retal damage from blurred frenzy”?

Your “arguments” are completely self-centred and show complete disregard for actual skill balance just because you want to be able to make yourself invuln for 2.5 seconds with no consequence. One thing you may have noticed is that a lot of classes have evades/invulnerabilities with long cooldowns – blurred frenzy doesn’t, so taking retaliation damage I feel is a perfectly reasonable trade-off.

If everyone would do what you just said you would have a game with 10% of the current population.

The current dungeon meta is hostile towards mesmers so I rarely play mine with the guild anymore. So what I did, is when I do actually run with them I play a class actually worth taking. I still play the game, for the record. Hyperbole doesn’t help your side of the argument, you’re honestly just looking silly at this point.

Well if nothing else, the least they could do is:
1. Increase the base damage of BF.
2. Reduce to cooldown back to 10s.

there are some serious stuff that needs to fixed/buffed about mesmer, blurred frenzy is not one of them

There’s a diference between no consequence and 1 shotting yourself by a boon that has 100% duration uptime and is nothing but brainless boon spammed by tanky specs to kill people while facetanking their damage. The amount of spam of boons in this game is way too much. Retaliation should be something that is only active for a small duration of time where you would actually need to time it to do damage back to the enemy. At the moment there’s no way around it making mesmer completely ueless in large scale fights after they dropped their magical skill ’’veil’’. I can come up with a whole list of things other than this to make mesmer viable without touching retaliation at all, but that’s not gonna work out since arenanet aren’t those of applying ‘’massive changes’’ in a short time. 1 fix to have blurred frenzy deny retalation, like at start of the game, would make mesmer somewhat usefull again.

My arguments are self centered cause I have probably more experience with raids in this game as mesmer than anyone else. I know what is going on and I know what is wrong with it. There’s no reason to put theory stuff in it, since there are too many random factors that make mesmer useless. One of them is retaliation. I never asked for a full immunity either. Making blurred frenzy so it will be immune to retal will still leave you with shocking aura and the fact that you can’t move makes the ’’immunity’’ far from what other evades are. Those who you mentioned, which are on long cooldowns, are because the whole profession doesn’t rely on evades and immunity’s or are so that you can still do skills or move during the cast. The ’’immnity’’ of blurred frenzy requires you to stay so static on a point, which is a huge disadvantage in any game.

So you reroll to another profession and you’re totally fne you can’t play the profession you prefer? Well sorry to say, but I’m not that weak to just move on and reroll to anything that’s in the meta. I guess that’s just the difference between pvp and pve. Casuals everywhere who cba about game balance.

By the way, those things you quoted from me are statements, not arguments. Maybe you should read the rest of my posts before shoutng ‘’REROLL!’’ ‘’L2P!’’

BlackDevil.9268:

There’s a diference between no consequence and 1 shotting yourself by a boon that has 100% duration uptime and is nothing but brainless boon spammed by tanky specs to kill people while facetanking their damage. The amount of spam of boons in this game is way too much. Retaliation should be something that is only active for a small duration of time where you would actually need to time it to do damage back to the enemy. At the moment there’s no way around it making mesmer completely ueless in large scale fights after they dropped their magical skill ’’veil’’. I can come up with a whole list of things other than this to make mesmer viable without touching retaliation at all, but that’s not gonna work out since arenanet aren’t those of applying ‘’massive changes’’ in a short time. 1 fix to have blurred frenzy deny retalation, like at start of the game, would make mesmer somewhat usefull again.

My arguments are self centered cause I have probably more experience with raids in this game as mesmer than anyone else. I know what is going on and I know what is wrong with it. There’s no reason to put theory stuff in it, since there are too many random factors that make mesmer useless. One of them is retaliation. I never asked for a full immunity either. Making blurred frenzy so it will be immune to retal will still leave you with shocking aura and the fact that you can’t move makes the ’’immunity’’ far from what other evades are. Those who you mentioned, which are on long cooldowns, are because the whole profession doesn’t rely on evades and immunity’s or are so that you can still do skills or move during the cast. The ’’immnity’’ of blurred frenzy requires you to stay so static on a point, which is a huge disadvantage in any game.

So you reroll to another profession and you’re totally fne you can’t play the profession you prefer? Well sorry to say, but I’m not that weak to just move on and reroll to anything that’s in the meta. I guess that’s just the difference between pvp and pve. Casuals everywhere who cba about game balance.

By the way, those things you quoted from me are statements, not arguments. Maybe you should read the rest of my posts before shoutng ‘’REROLL!’’ ‘’L2P!’’

thats what boonstrip necros /mesmers are there for

And you asume boon stripping with a minimal of 32 seconds cooldown static aoe is gonna strip a boon that is reapplied every 5 seconds fast enough so mesmers wont 1shot themselves by casting a defensive skill? By the way, mesmer boon removal mainly comes from shatter, which forces you to come close and to survive close to the enemy’s melee you either have to go full tank and deal 0 damage combined with 2 guardians and warriors or survive with immunity’s. Too bad retal totally makes that 2nd option useless.

maha.7902:

BlackDevil.9268:

maha.7902:

Well I guess you do nothing then.

ANet wanted specific roles for classes; your role is portals, veils, projectile reflection, condition cleansing, boon stripping, quickness, pulls and ranged pressure in WvW. Just because you dislike that doesn’t mean the game is broken in any way.

Projectile reflection is useless and only deals more damage to yourself by retaliation than you apply to them.
Veils and portals are both out of combat skills. It doesnt affect in combat gameplay.
Boon stripping is mostly only possible with null field, but most of all with shatter. You can’t shatter if you die cause of retal damage.
The aoe condition cleanse on mesmer requires you to stay really close to your guys and is really poor compared to the other classes such as guardian and warrior. Also most ppl run -condition duration food. Cleansing is not that needed.
You have 1 pull on a very long cooldown. It’s not even close to being as good as any CC a warrior can do.
Our ranged preasure is like eh…. 0? It’s also multi-hitting like blurred frenzy so you will get melted by blurred frenzy as it is 9 hits of retal every 1.5 sec.
The quickness is very static and is nerfed by 50% so it makes no sense

Another thing, of all things you listed, 7 of those are either elites or utilities. Since when do we have so many slots?

If you take a bar of veil, null field, blink and time warp you have access to six of the things I mentioned. And sure, most people take lemongrass food but that’s why condis can just take koi cakes to nullify the condition reduction. So what I’m seeing so far is that mesmers have roles – niche roles – but you dislike them and aren’t willing to pay any attention to retaliation so you want blurred frenzy buffed. Here what I recommend – stop suiciding yourself and actually try picking your targets.

erm ever been in the middle of a zergfight?i dont think so, because how on earth can u kno0w if all the 30-60 people in there have no retal?niche roles? thats not even a niche role, it needs 1-2 mes max per zerg for veils and they need veil only as atm there is barely any projectiles to reflect in zergs as all of them play GWEN. u think we are ganking backlines? well no, thats the thieves job not ours!
problem is that blurred frenzy didnt need that nerf and retal kills fast with blurred frenzy and then if u are unlyucky enough to put down a feedback and hit more retal u are dead!
in fact im not suiciding, im staying a way from the main blob or ill die in 2 sec. mes goes with casters as we are light armor, but we lack everything a light armor is supposed to have…so yeah go ahead and enjoy your niche role.

BlackDevil.9268:

And you asume boon stripping with a minimal of 32 seconds cooldown static aoe is gonna strip a boon that is reapplied every 5 seconds fast enough so mesmers wont 1shot themselves by casting a defensive skill? By the way, mesmer boon removal mainly comes from shatter, which forces you to come close and to survive close to the enemy’s melee you either have to go full tank and deal 0 damage combined with 2 guardians and warriors or survive with immunity’s. Too bad retal totally makes that 2nd option useless.

hahah so true. people think mes is the best boonstrip class in the game…nullfield is 32 cd and then what else u got in zerg? the shatter boonrip?erm i hope u got ip then cause your shatters will fail 85% of the time in a zerg due to illusions dying. u mean mh sword 3rd attack…sure how close would u like to get to that blob so u can take away a boon? u mean gs3…well it misses quiet a lot and also risky to use cause u are stuck while casting it and it takes 1 thief to see that and u dead. so yeah…oh u mean dissenchanter?….i dare u to use it in a zerg.

its not like mesmer has the only problem in zergs w retal dmg

No but other classes can deal with it whereas mesmer can’t. As mentioned like 3000 times before, if only you could read:

BlackDevil.9268:

but sadly mesmer has to rely on immunty’s and evades. Not like warrior who can facetank everything with 30k hp, massive armor and good stability upkeep. Then also, 100b hits much harder, hits slower to easier to react to the damage and as mentioned before, is not a requirement to cast to bomb with the melee.

Blurred frenzy, or immunity/evades itself, is a requirement for mesmer to bomb with the melee. The effect ’’distortion’’ caused by any trait or any skill is a direct immunity, so why isn’t blurred frenzy?

Wiki of blurred frenzy is directing to the effect ’’blur’’, which has the same skills as distortion listed. The effect should be the same.

If we look at other professions who play mainly in raids:
Elementalist: Can stay on range, needs to only deal with retaliation, no other damage and has no to few ‘’fast hitting’’ skills.
Necromancer: Same as elementalist.
Guardian: High armor, doesn’t get stuck fast in CC, many ways to heal, immune and block damage. Besides greatsword whirl, this profession got no to few fast hitting skills which doesnt get affected too much by retaliation.
Warrior: High HP, high armor, good mobility with sword, good stability up keep, can cleanse conditions and have access to good passive healings, doesn’t attack too fast so wont get affected too much by retaliation.
Mesmer: Relies on fast hitting bursts and immunity’s, has poor healing, poor condition removal, gets stuck in CC fast, medium hp, low armor.

You can react to retaliation when it’s adding up slow as it pretends as damage. When I jump in and cast my combo, I will lose 14k hp in 2 seconds. That’s like impossible to even react to. And if I don’t jump in? Well too bad, no damage,no immobilize, nothing. I will just stand there and do /cheer for my guild mates who can actually play the game because they don’t rely on such fast hitting skills.

If only they could make it so that the retaliation would come from 1 person just like with the condition burning. The one who hits the hardest retal damage will get priority. That would at least lower the retal damage I would get from BF only by around 60%. Something that would be like 7k on a full burst combo still. Still really high, but at least better than 14k.

well warrior is a totally broken class so the argument : war is better than mesmer

doesnt count

thief sw/p dual wield skill hase the same issue like our sword2

after big nerfs to confusions and BF what left for Mesmers ? Veil Boting= What veil Boting Mean u re not efficient to your group than other classes can.. except veiling group that which make mesmers to use veil mandatory… What is mesmer for? yeah pls again as 1 year before talks as boon strips, reflections, tw says.. Be Objective pls.. We are talking about Zerging play with (organized Large scaled synchronous(sync) competitive guild plays..

SO.. Game is lacking so much in competitive play.. and the discussions should be on for FAIR risk&reward factors !

yeahh thats the same nothing changed since start of game.. Gw2 has just 1 OFFICAL competitive play is just Tournament PvP.. which game is designed for 5 players structured gaming mechanic..

all other parts of game is casual gaming. exp, any offical ranking for WvW spec for Gvg, offical places for it.. ? But there re still competitive players who like to play gw2 with guild orientation.. whereas pleanty of them already quit from gw2 in early of game or now..

pls show me how mesmer can better efficient to his large scaled group than other classes? i would like to see where and how..

and retal= yeah mesmer already have 3 main archetypes;

• Shatter
• Phantasm
• i forgot the last was mantra?

which is working as expected level of efficient?

and BF nerf was the main reason for shatter archetypes that let shatter to dead spec.. risk&reward? yea spam #1 #1 #1

yess as we know QoL (quality of life) in wvw is some low.. experianced guys can show more theorical stuff if needed in terms of overall efficient to zerg play but maybe already anet have some offical says about making large scale fights to more competitive? maybe i already missed cuz i am playing passive anymore..

just because i want to be more clear on efficient of mesmer.. i made guard war thief necro and it made me more clear about it.. yeah maybe i am wrong.. and all is just my imo

Wyrden.4713:

well warrior is a totally broken class so the argument : war is better than mesmer

doesnt count

thief sw/p dual wield skill hase the same issue like our sword2

…

w/e I’m just gonna give a serious response as I got nothing better to do than teaching some people on the forum how to…
aanyway, thief is far from usefull in raids anyway and is no must. A mesmer is a must in WvW because of veil. Every guild needs one because of it, while the mesmer and ’’i’mcompletelyuselessvszergs’’ go hand in hand. So what the heck is that for reaction to what I just wrote. Yes it has the same problem. Should be profession be able to do such things? I highly doubt it. Thief is also in a better state of the game than mesmer I’d say if we look at tPvP.

We were comparing retaliation being affected per profession with mesmer… So… yeah… Do I really have to explain it to you why I actually should compare them instead of just shouting ‘’OP, BROKEN, NO ARGUMENT!’’?

I’m not one to toss around hostility as that only turns a debate into an argument. However, between Null Field, Arcane Thievery, Phantasmal Disenchanter, Mind Stab, Mind Spike and Shattered Concentration, you can’t find a way to keep boons off of an opponent? Crazy as it would be, all of those skills, traits and utilities can be taken in one build. I don’t know of any class that can reapply Retaliation fast enough to outpace that. If you want to completely overkill the point, the Sigil of Nullification can be added too.

If you want a class that’s good at fighting zergs then you are in the wrong place. I also hate the fact that mesmers suck against groups but Anet did advertise it as a duelist profession. In that aspect, we got exactly what was on the tin. I can only hope that eventually we’ll get a weapon that will allow us to tag, bag and grab more proficiently.