Guild Wars 2

Crossplay.2067:

I’m not one to toss around hostility as that only turns a debate into an argument. However, between Null Field, Arcane Thievery, Phantasmal Disenchanter, Mind Stab, Mind Spike and Shattered Concentration, you can’t find a way to keep boons off of an opponent? Crazy as it would be, all of those skills, traits and utilities can be taken in one build. I don’t know of any class that can reapply Retaliation fast enough to outpace that. If you want to completely overkill the point, the Sigil of Nullification can be added too.

If you want a class that’s good at fighting zergs then you are in the wrong place. I also hate the fact that mesmers suck against groups but Anet did advertise it as a duelist profession. In that aspect, we got exactly what was on the tin. I can only hope that eventually we’ll get a weapon that will allow us to tag, bag and grab more proficiently.

Blackdevil is talking about big group fights, against which not a single thing you mentioned is a reliable source of “Retaliation removal”.

There’s a diference between no consequence and 1 shotting yourself by a boon that has 100% duration uptime and is nothing but brainless boon spammed by tanky specs to kill people while facetanking their damage.

Except it’s not brainless. Clearly it’s intelligent use of a boon they know will deal massive amounts of damage since they know they’ll be getting hit from like 30 different sources all at the same time.

Retaliation should be something that is only active for a small duration of time where you would actually need to time it to do damage back to the enemy. At the moment there’s no way around it making mesmer completely ueless in large scale fights after they dropped their magical skill ’’veil’’. I can come up with a whole list of things other than this to make mesmer viable without touching retaliation at all, but that’s not gonna work out since arenanet aren’t those of applying ‘’massive changes’’ in a short time. 1 fix to have blurred frenzy deny retalation, like at start of the game, would make mesmer somewhat usefull again.

More “me me me me”. The game doesn’t revolve around you and your inability to use blurred frenzy properly.

My arguments are self centered cause I have probably more experience with raids in this game as mesmer than anyone else. I know what is going on and I know what is wrong with it.

All that experience and you can’t even resist pressing blurred frenzy and committing suicide. Your arguments are self-centred because you don’t actually care about the wider implications of changing blurred frenzy and just want to have 2.5 seconds of god mode every 9.5 seconds because that way you don’t need to put as much thought in to your own survivability.

One of them is retaliation. I never asked for a full immunity either. Making blurred frenzy so it will be immune to retal will still leave you with shocking aura and the fact that you can’t move makes the ’’immunity’’ far from what other evades are.

You’re not going to get “retaliation immunity”. It either evades all attacks or makes you invulnerable, there’s no middle ground. And we’re not getting invulnerability anymore so it’s just evasion.

So you reroll to another profession and you’re totally fne you can’t play the profession you prefer? Well sorry to say, but I’m not that weak to just move on and reroll to anything that’s in the meta. I guess that’s just the difference between pvp and pve. Casuals everywhere who cba about game balance.

lol. Isn’kitten“meta” to be playing meta classes? Wouldn’t you be the casual one since you would be too stubborn to reroll despite knowing that there are more optimal classes you can take? This isn’t anything to do with pvp vs pve, I as a gw2 player will play a class and build that is desired in whatever group content I am doing, and if that means shelving a class then I will do it. The only one who cba about game balance here is you since you want the mesmer balance to revolve around your imbalanced game mode which ANet aren’t even going to bother try balancing since it’s imbalanced by its nature.

By the way, those things you quoted from me are statements, not arguments. Maybe you should read the rest of my posts before shoutng ‘’REROLL!’’ ‘’L2P!’’

I think you need to calm down and stop frothing at me.

Crossplay.2067:

I’m not one to toss around hostility as that only turns a debate into an argument. However, between Null Field, Arcane Thievery, Phantasmal Disenchanter, Mind Stab, Mind Spike and Shattered Concentration, you can’t find a way to keep boons off of an opponent? Crazy as it would be, all of those skills, traits and utilities can be taken in one build. I don’t know of any class that can reapply Retaliation fast enough to outpace that. If you want to completely overkill the point, the Sigil of Nullification can be added too.

If you want a class that’s good at fighting zergs then you are in the wrong place. I also hate the fact that mesmers suck against groups but Anet did advertise it as a duelist profession. In that aspect, we got exactly what was on the tin. I can only hope that eventually we’ll get a weapon that will allow us to tag, bag and grab more proficiently.

it wasnt a duelist profession only at first. it is now after everything viable we had in groupplay got nerfed to the ground of the grounds. and honestly thats very very bad game design. a thief has better aoe than us and is better in 1v1’s so mes is missing out.
a light armor should not be a 1v1 pet class. a light armor needs aoe as we cant go frontline really. yes, we are not with a bad healthpool like ele, but we sure are squishy and the lack of stability makes things worse for mes!
every class should be viable in every game mode. so if u want to spec into wvw as a mes, u should be able to.

@ Maha
Oh please wise stranger out of the dark. Tell me how to use blurred frenzy wisely. Show me a video how you deal with it. After 1 year of raiding I still didnt come up with a solution besides just ignoring the fact that you’re completely useless compared to the other professions in raid. Yet we’re still forced to be in the main team of a raid.

You reply to me like it’s so ‘’easy to play’‘, yet you only come up with some pve bullkitten. I truely think you have never been in any decent guild yet and with the mindset you’re running around, I’m pretty sure you wont get in as mesmer either.
Good to know though. Because selection is made itself. Those who stick with mesmer actually see what’s going on. Those who don’t just reroll because ‘’its not the meta’‘. Complaining about things that don’t make any sense in this game? Naahh, just reroll the easiest to play and easiest to burst profession and it’s all fine. That’s your mindset and I truely think that’s weak. Sorry to say, but I have no kittening idea why you are even in this topic. It’s about WvW, not your pve easy mode. If you want to point out how easy it is to reroll you can go to any other pve topic. Because that’s what pve is, reroll to meta. Too bad WvW actually requires other professions than those who have the highest DPS.

Again: there’s no ’’easy’’ fix besides blurred frenzy being immune to retaliation. If you want a long list of things being changed so mesmer is usefull then have fun waiting for another 2 years, because that’s not gonna happen soon. Mesmer is required to raids because of the veil, nothing else. So why not make it so mesmer can actually do stuff besides the veil? 1 change and those who actually can play mesmer will become close to usefull again.

By the way, if they didnt care about WvW balance, please explain me the following:
Retaliation nerfed by 50%
Confusion nerfed by 50%
Shout healings nerfed so it doesnt heal up to 20 targets instead of 5
Blinding befuddlement nerfed because they thought that was the confusion proc. that made conf builds op.

These are just a few changes out of many, but all based around WvW. None of them were based around spvp, tpvp or easy mode pve. So tell me that story of ‘’imbalanced game mode’’ again please, cause it’s really funny.

I think some posters in here are coming at it from a misguided angle. Making it so Blurred Frenzy isn’t negatively affected by retal wouldn’t be a buff, it’d be a revert; Blurred Frenzy originally ignored all effects and was nerfed to the state it’s in now. Thus it’s really misleading to imply organized groups are using retal to counter sword Mesmers, because they were always using retal before the change anyway.

I still don’t believe I’ve heard a compelling reason why the skill should’ve been changed this way in the first place.

Oh please wise stranger out of the dark. Tell me how to use blurred frenzy wisely. Show me a video how you deal with it. After 1 year of raiding I still didnt come up with a solution besides just ignoring the fact that you’re completely useless compared to the other professions in raid. Yet we’re still forced to be in the main team of a raid.

I haven’t WvW raided in like a year at this point so I don’t know if ret bombing is a thing now, but my assumption (correct me if I’m wrong) is that pug zergs just yolo in and you can frenzy away but organised groups will put up the retal you love. Therefore the logical conclusion is to not use blurred frenzy against organised groups. If pug zerg use it, well I guess don’t use it at all unless you know they don’t have it up. I can’t imagine it’s that hard to resist pressing 2.

You reply to me like it’s so ‘’easy to play’‘, yet you only come up with some pve bullkitten. I truely think you have never been in any decent guild yet and with the mindset you’re running around, I’m pretty sure you wont get in as mesmer either.

“Statements” like this are what it makes you hard to take seriously. If you can stop frothing for a few seconds and collect yourself.

Good to know though. Because selection is made itself. Those who stick with mesmer actually see what’s going on. Those who don’t just reroll because ‘’its not the meta’‘. Complaining about things that don’t make any sense in this game? Naahh, just reroll the easiest to play and easiest to burst profession and it’s all fine. That’s your mindset and I truely think that’s weak. Sorry to say, but I have no kittening idea why you are even in this topic.

Except, I do play my mesmer still, I pug dungeons with it where I can actually be useful and not a dead weight like in organised groups. Mesmer apparently works in high-end PvP as determined by the ToL and they’re still wanted for their fringe WvW application. Everything else you said is just rambling which I’m not even going to entertain.

It’s about WvW, not your pve easy mode. If you want to point out how easy it is to reroll you can go to any other pve topic. Because that’s what pve is, reroll to meta. Too bad WvW actually requires other professions than those who have the highest DPS.

I’ve raided in WvW and I’ve roamed in WvW. Roaming was literally the most boring thing ever where you either stomped bads 1v3 or got destroyed 20v1, and raiding is just classes applying the appropriate buffs, two trains crashing in to each other, back liners trying to spike other back liners and regrouping over and over again until people start slipping up and downing. It’s not exactly the epitome of skill you make it out to be, it’s listening to a raid leader and carrying out both your role and their orders as best you can while maintaining your own survival. I learnt to play my classes much more by soloing Arah and doing sPvP than WvW. Soloing Arah and sPvP force you to learn key tells to dodge and to control your bursts properly, plus I learned my traits and their synergies inside and out.

Again: there’s no ’’easy’’ fix besides blurred frenzy being immune to retaliation. If you want a long list of things being changed so mesmer is usefull then have fun waiting for another 2 years, because that’s not gonna happen soon. Mesmer is required to raids because of the veil, nothing else. So why not make it so mesmer can actually do stuff besides the veil? 1 change and those who actually can play mesmer will become close to usefull again.

Because mesmers are a dueling class? Did that not cross your mind? Do duelists operate in massive groups or something?

By the way, if they didnt care about WvW balance, please explain me the following:
Retaliation nerfed by 50%
Confusion nerfed by 50%
Shout healings nerfed so it doesnt heal up to 20 targets instead of 5
Blinding befuddlement nerfed because they thought that was the confusion proc. that made conf builds op.

Same reason for the ferocity changes, to make people crying endlessly on the forum stop complaining.

These are just a few changes out of many, but all based around WvW. None of them were based around spvp, tpvp or easy mode pve. So tell me that story of ‘’imbalanced game mode’’ again please, cause it’s really funny.

If it’s so easy mode link me your own <5 minute Lupicus kill. You won’t because the only dungeons you’ve ever done are AC and COF, and you probably do Fractal 49 by circle kiting ranging every single boss with no semblance of skill or tactics.

Glad someone else noticed. I’ve been complaining about this for a while. Easy fix would be to make retal return a % of damage taken, scaling with power. An easier fix would be to give BF the invul back tho.

What’s the point of studying a boss that gives me 0 reward for killing it? The boss is designed for 5 man, just because you can solo it and another 500 people in this game is already a sign that PvE is, as it’s supposed to be, easy mode. Making the game harder for yourself than it actually is, is like playing longbow ranger in tPvP.

You’ve said you raided and roamed, yet you haven’t played WvW for 1 year, yet your forum posts go back to ‘’12 days ago’‘. So either you must have not cared about what have been said on the forums with and just went playing the game as it was, or you’re just lying atm, but I’ll just have to go with the first option;
No, retalation is just being spammed. The pugs we’re fighting aren’t that stupid, and mainly those who run 50-60 man, to organise it a little bit and mainly have guards and warriors in the front line, whereas all the guardians can easily apply enough retaliation for the whole front line. Sure I can spike someone on the side, but is that a coördinated bomb? Not really. He will just get ressed up and surely our melee isn’t comming if 1 person is downed. Wasting a lot survivability to stomp the dude is also no option cause there are another 10 dudes around you who can easily target you during that stomp and you’d be dead in seconds. So what are you doing? You jump in, do the shatter bomb and jump out. Much harder than it sounds, especially when you actually try to deal damage by running in zerker gears,

The description of raid is not really how you described it, but then again I can imagine you never been in a good WvW guild because you prefered to stack in a corner and do aoe’s. That’s my description of pve.

maha.7902:

All that experience and you can’t even resist pressing blurred frenzy and committing suicide. Your arguments are self-centred because you don’t actually care about the wider implications of changing blurred frenzy and just want to have 2.5 seconds of god mode every 9.5 seconds because that way you don’t need to put as much thought in to your own survivability.

maha.7902:

More “me me me me”. The game doesn’t revolve around you and your inability to use blurred frenzy properly.

Tell me again how I’m hard to take serious if you come up with this. Especially knowing this is coming from someone who hasn’t been in WvW for 1 year.

maha.7902:

Because mesmers are a dueling class? Did that not cross your mind? Do duelists operate in massive groups or something?

And that was stated… where? Oh right, wiki. ‘’Magical Duelists’‘. Only 2 years outdated. You can’t give A and ignore B. In this case, you can’t give such powerfull skill ’’Veil’’ and ignore the B part, which is in combat fighting. We had B 1 year ago when blurred frenzy only needed a longer cooldown and confusion builds needed a slight tone down.
Yet they success in failing (as usual) and screw everything up in less than what.. 1 month? Or was it even 1 patch? ‘’Baby steps’‘, that’s what they did with warrior. ‘’bigfoot steps’‘, that’s what they did with mesmer. Resulting in people like me who play the game long enough to know that most changes that have been made the past 2 years are way too reckless.

Oh believe me, they don’t care about how many crying posts will be made. Just look at the thief posts that has been going on for a while now. It’s not like arenanet is gonna nerf thief to the ground cause of mass community spam of ‘’how op it is’’.

BlackDevil.9268:

What’s the point of studying a boss that gives me 0 reward for killing it? The boss is designed for 5 man, just because you can solo it and another 500 people in this game is already a sign that PvE is, as it’s supposed to be, easy mode. Making the game harder for yourself than it actually is, is like playing longbow ranger in tPvP.

You’ve said you raided and roamed, yet you haven’t played WvW for 1 year, yet your forum posts go back to ‘’12 days ago’‘. So either you must have not cared about what have been said on the forums with and just went playing the game as it was, or you’re just lying atm, but I’ll just have to go with the first option;
No, retalation is just being spammed. The pugs we’re fighting aren’t that stupid, and mainly those who run 50-60 man, to organise it a little bit and mainly have guards and warriors in the front line, whereas all the guardians can easily apply enough retaliation for the whole front line. Sure I can spike someone on the side, but is that a coördinated bomb? Not really. He will just get ressed up and surely our melee isn’t comming if 1 person is downed. Wasting a lot survivability to stomp the dude is also no option cause there are another 10 dudes around you who can easily target you during that stomp and you’d be dead in seconds. So what are you doing? You jump in, do the shatter bomb and jump out. Much harder than it sounds, especially when you actually try to deal damage by running in zerker gears,

The description of raid is not really how you described it, but then again I can imagine you never been in a good WvW guild because you prefered to stack in a corner and do aoe’s. That’s my description of pve.

maha.7902:

All that experience and you can’t even resist pressing blurred frenzy and committing suicide. Your arguments are self-centred because you don’t actually care about the wider implications of changing blurred frenzy and just want to have 2.5 seconds of god mode every 9.5 seconds because that way you don’t need to put as much thought in to your own survivability.

maha.7902:

More “me me me me”. The game doesn’t revolve around you and your inability to use blurred frenzy properly.

Tell me again how I’m hard to take serious if you come up with this. Especially knowing this is coming from someone who hasn’t been in WvW for 1 year.

maha.7902:

Because mesmers are a dueling class? Did that not cross your mind? Do duelists operate in massive groups or something?

And that was stated… where? Oh right, wiki. ‘’Magical Duelists’‘. Only 2 years outdated. You can’t give A and ignore B. In this case, you can’t give such powerfull skill ’’Veil’’ and ignore the B part, which is in combat fighting. We had B 1 year ago when blurred frenzy only needed a longer cooldown and confusion builds needed a slight tone down.
Yet they success in failing (as usual) and screw everything up in less than what.. 1 month? Or was it even 1 patch? ‘’Baby steps’‘, that’s what they did with warrior. ‘’bigfoot steps’‘, that’s what they did with mesmer. Resulting in people like me who play the game long enough to know that most changes that have been made the past 2 years are way too reckless.

Oh believe me, they don’t care about how many crying posts will be made. Just look at the thief posts that has been going on for a while now. It’s not like arenanet is gonna nerf thief to the ground cause of mass community spam of ‘’how op it is’’.

500 is actually pretty low and i guess not even 1% of ppl playing the game.

Because that was clearly the whole point of the post.

maha.7902:

I haven’t WvW raided in like a year at this point so I don’t know if ret bombing is a thing now, but my assumption (correct me if I’m wrong) is that pug zergs just yolo in and you can frenzy away but organised groups will put up the retal you love. Therefore the logical conclusion is to not use blurred frenzy against organised groups. If pug zerg use it, well I guess don’t use it at all unless you know they don’t have it up. I can’t imagine it’s that hard to resist pressing 2.

I’ve raided in WvW and I’ve roamed in WvW. Roaming was literally the most boring thing ever where you either stomped bads 1v3 or got destroyed 20v1, and raiding is just classes applying the appropriate buffs, two trains crashing in to each other, back liners trying to spike other back liners and regrouping over and over again until people start slipping up and downing. It’s not exactly the epitome of skill you make it out to be, it’s listening to a raid leader and carrying out both your role and their orders as best you can while maintaining your own survival. I learnt to play my classes much more by soloing Arah and doing sPvP than WvW. Soloing Arah and sPvP force you to learn key tells to dodge and to control your bursts properly, plus I learned my traits and their synergies inside and out.

Because mesmers are a dueling class? Did that not cross your mind? Do duelists operate in massive groups or something?

well maha, sorry but some of us have played mes since headstart of the game. first off blurred frenzy was never godmode. it actually saved u if the zerg pushed through to the backline.
fact is mes used to be good in wvw, before u probably even played the game. after all the nerfs we are now veilbots. i play wvw only. i dont do pve or fractlas or anything like that. i try it here and there, but not really my thing. problem is, that mes has received too many nerfs and no buffs while other classes have received pretty nice things. yes it does say duelist, but again mes used to be able to be viable in 1v1 and group fights. i really dont care if u like wvw or find it skilled game play. its not your thing and i get it, but this is no reason to claim mes is designed like that and mes is duelist and u gotta learn how to blurred frenzy etc. i know how bf used to work and its was not op it was a good defense and offense at the same time. anet has nerfed everything that was good in wvw and now we are asking for something back as the nerfs and buffs of other professions make mes not viable in wvw anymor. and no again veilbot is not a role nor is it fun to play.
how long have u played this game? because if u played it from the start u would understand where black devil is coming from.
i agree with him in many points he brought up and i also understand his frustration with mes. i have stopped playing my mes since the last patch and now main my necro because this class is full of bugs, overnerfs and gets no attention from the devs whatsoever.
u play mainly pve and maybe some spvp by the sound of it, but bf is mainly affecting wvw mes defense. fact is u will not understand where black devil is coming from, because u dont play wvw the way we do. i only play wvw and im really unhappy with the mes the way it is. all the nerfs were too much and after not getting anything back or anything new that could help wvw mes ive decided to bench it. i dont know but it might will take years until mes will ever get good in wvw again as i have lost faith in anet.

maha.7902:

ANet wanted specific roles for classes; your role is portals, veils, projectile reflection, condition cleansing, boon stripping, quickness, pulls and ranged pressure in WvW. Just because you dislike that doesn’t mean the game is broken in any way.

You know, as much as I love them, I’ve always felt that mesmers were somewhat underpowered compared to… well, every single class other than mesmers. When you put it like that, though, they seem pretty awesome.

What’s the point of studying a boss that gives me 0 reward for killing it? The boss is designed for 5 man, just because you can solo it and another 500 people in this game is already a sign that PvE is, as it’s supposed to be, easy mode. Making the game harder for yourself than it actually is, is like playing longbow ranger in tPvP.

The point is that you said PvE is faceroll, yet I know for certain you can’t faceroll it, and you outright can’t kill Lupicus is under five minutes. The fact that I can solo it means that I as a person spent the time to learn it (7h+), not that the game is easy.

So how long do you think your average Arah path would take if you were to do it now?

You’ve said you raided and roamed, yet you haven’t played WvW for 1 year, yet your forum posts go back to ‘’12 days ago’‘. So either you must have not cared about what have been said on the forums with and just went playing the game as it was, or you’re just lying atm, but I’ll just have to go with the first option;

I roamed a lot more recently (this month), and it sucked. I’m not going to inflict pug zerging on myself because of how boring it is, and I’m not in a WvW guild anymore so raiding is out of the question.

No, retalation is just being spammed. The pugs we’re fighting aren’t that stupid, and mainly those who run 50-60 man, to organise it a little bit and mainly have guards and warriors in the front line, whereas all the guardians can easily apply enough retaliation for the whole front line. Sure I can spike someone on the side, but is that a coördinated bomb? Not really. He will just get ressed up and surely our melee isn’t comming if 1 person is downed. Wasting a lot survivability to stomp the dude is also no option cause there are another 10 dudes around you who can easily target you during that stomp and you’d be dead in seconds. So what are you doing? You jump in, do the shatter bomb and jump out. Much harder than it sounds, especially when you actually try to deal damage by running in zerker gears,

Your logic appears to be that any boon someone repeatedly applies is just spamming – but if it’s a boon that’s always relevant in a situation I’d just call it chaining, not spamming. You condescendingly refer to it as spamming because it destroys you and you don’t like that.

The description of raid is not really how you described it, but then again I can imagine you never been in a good WvW guild because you prefered to stack in a corner and do aoe’s. That’s my description of pve.

Actually my description is almost perfectly accurate, though probably with a downplaying of skill involved. Making sad comments about how I “prefered to stack in a corner and do aoe’s” just because I play PvE just demonstrates you have no argument and would rather just resort to inaccurate personal remarks and ad hominems. At that point you should just step back, realise you have nothing to say and stop posting.

Tell me again how I’m hard to take serious if you come up with this. Especially knowing this is coming from someone who hasn’t been in WvW for 1 year.

You’re hard to take serious because your “arguments” are embroidered with ad hominems, inaccuracies and you’re too busy frothing at the fact that I even dare to do PvE because you’ve got nothing better to say.

And that was stated… where? Oh right, wiki. ‘’Magical Duelists’‘. Only 2 years outdated. You can’t give A and ignore B. In this case, you can’t give such powerfull skill ’’Veil’’ and ignore the B part, which is in combat fighting. We had B 1 year ago when blurred frenzy only needed a longer cooldown and confusion builds needed a slight tone down.
Yet they success in failing (as usual) and screw everything up in less than what.. 1 month? Or was it even 1 patch? ‘’Baby steps’‘, that’s what they did with warrior. ‘’bigfoot steps’‘, that’s what they did with mesmer. Resulting in people like me who play the game long enough to know that most changes that have been made the past 2 years are way too reckless.

The whole reason the balance changes were made is because people kept crying about it. And yeah, they can ignore “the B part”.

Oh believe me, they don’t care about how many crying posts will be made. Just look at the thief posts that has been going on for a while now. It’s not like arenanet is gonna nerf thief to the ground cause of mass community spam of ‘’how op it is’’.

Pistol whip was nerfed. Confusion nerfed. Retal nerfed. Dungeon bosses nerfed. Critical damage nerfed. Pretty much all of these were in response to forum outcry.

Here’s what I recommend – stop posting. Because you’re not actually posting anything constructive, just veiled (excuse the pun) insults at me and hyperbole about literally everything.

Does it matter how long it takes? Reward is still the same. There’s no reward for doing it faster or doing it alone. Zerg it down and you’ll have your reward. There’s no competition in pve in this game at all, then again there’s no real challenge besides that what you make it off yourself by, for example, soloing lupicus. I can also challenge you to run naked and complete AC. That’s about as silly as soloing lupicus.

Anyhow, arah p3 takes about 15 mins, p2 about 20, p1 about 35-40 and p4 about 1h. I’ve done quite a lot pve the first weeks. Got bored of it really fast. It’s just repeating the same things over and over. There’s no factors that change the gameplay besides rerolling another profession or being silly to make the game harder than it actually is.

Chaining – Spamming, same thing in GW2. Why? Because things stack of itself. I hoped you could figure that out yourself too.

Well what else do you like so much about pve? Being silly to make the game much harder than it is? Yeah that sounds like a lot of fun. Especially when you’re doing the same thing over and over because nothing changes in pve. PvE generally speaking still consists for a big part out of stacking in a corner and doing aoe’s. Because that’s how you do it the fastest way. I wonder why though…

I still think it’s funny how you as pve’r with seriously no experience in WvW are thinking you know it better than me who has 1.5 year of raiding experience on my mesmer. You determine my request to reroll the nerf that was made on BF before as ’’crying’’. Though you have no idea what you’re even talking about. You asume mesmers are fine in WvW, yet then you realise they don’t after being told, so you tell me to reroll. I tell you a mesmer is still needed for the main raid because of veil, you tell me a mesmer shouldn’t do fine in raids because it’s a dueling class.

I don’t seem to understand your logic, but then again there’s no logic in you because everything you compare to is PvE. ‘’because rerolling works in pve it should in wvw’‘. No in wvw you actually need setups, not ’’dpsdpsdps’’ like in pve. Mesmer needs a buff in raids, no matter what. Then again retalation is a boon that get’s spammed without even being thought of it. It’s not being timed like empower’s are or like swiftness is. It’s just a random boon that’s applied on passive ways. When you’re getting it it’s because of something totally else you wanted to do. For example when you use stand your ground. It’s not that you use that because you don’t have retaliation on. It’s because you want that stability. The retaliation is there just for an add. Then again you can’t count on the damage because there’s no way to tell when you want to get hit. Hell, you actually don’t want to get hit in this game. The boon is designed so tanky specs can still deal damage. Mesmers get punished for already playing risky due the low condition removal, healing, stability upkeep, hp and armor and after the nerf we get punished for… playing the game? It’s not like guardians see a mesmer comming and be like ‘’Oh pop your retal skills now!’’ so the mesmer would die. If that would be the case I would be totally fine with it. But no, this boon has a 100% upkeep without even trying to keep it up. That 1 boon, that is being applied brainless is destroying my whole and only spec I can play just because I hit myself for almost 10k damage when probably not even hitting the 10k myself with blurred frenzy. I deal less damage with BF than they deal to me with retaliation. I don’t think I will need to explain why, because hopefully you can think yourself too.

So tell me again, why you think retaliation is so ’’skillfull’’ and why my request is ’’crying’’ for buffs. I’m at the moment getting a little kittened off by people who think they know it better but actually know nothing about this whole game.

BlackDevil.9268:

Does it matter how long it takes? Reward is still the same. There’s no reward for doing it faster or doing it alone. Zerg it down and you’ll have your reward. There’s no competition in pve in this game at all, then again there’s no real challenge besides that what you make it off yourself by, for example, soloing lupicus. I can also challenge you to run naked and complete AC. That’s about as silly as soloing lupicus.

Anyhow, arah p3 takes about 15 mins, p2 about 20, p1 about 35-40 and p4 about 1h. I’ve done quite a lot pve the first weeks. Got bored of it really fast. It’s just repeating the same things over and over. There’s no factors that change the gameplay besides rerolling another profession or being silly to make the game harder than it actually is.

Chaining – Spamming, same thing in GW2. Why? Because things stack of itself. I hoped you could figure that out yourself too.

Well what else do you like so much about pve? Being silly to make the game much harder than it is? Yeah that sounds like a lot of fun. Especially when you’re doing the same thing over and over because nothing changes in pve. PvE generally speaking still consists for a big part out of stacking in a corner and doing aoe’s. Because that’s how you do it the fastest way. I wonder why though…

I still think it’s funny how you as pve’r with seriously no experience in WvW are thinking you know it better than me who has 1.5 year of raiding experience on my mesmer. You determine my request to reroll the nerf that was made on BF before as ’’crying’’. Though you have no idea what you’re even talking about. You asume mesmers are fine in WvW, yet then you realise they don’t after being told, so you tell me to reroll. I tell you a mesmer is still needed for the main raid because of veil, you tell me a mesmer shouldn’t do fine in raids because it’s a dueling class.

I don’t seem to understand your logic, but then again there’s no logic in you because everything you compare to is PvE. ‘’because rerolling works in pve it should in wvw’‘. No in wvw you actually need setups, not ’’dpsdpsdps’’ like in pve. Mesmer needs a buff in raids, no matter what. Then again retalation is a boon that get’s spammed without even being thought of it. It’s not being timed like empower’s are or like swiftness is. It’s just a random boon that’s applied on passive ways. When you’re getting it it’s because of something totally else you wanted to do. For example when you use stand your ground. It’s not that you use that because you don’t have retaliation on. It’s because you want that stability. The retaliation is there just for an add. Then again you can’t count on the damage because there’s no way to tell when you want to get hit. Hell, you actually don’t want to get hit in this game. The boon is designed so tanky specs can still deal damage. Mesmers get punished for already playing risky due the low condition removal, healing, stability upkeep, hp and armor and after the nerf we get punished for… playing the game? It’s not like guardians see a mesmer comming and be like ‘’Oh pop your retal skills now!’’ so the mesmer would die. If that would be the case I would be totally fine with it. But no, this boon has a 100% upkeep without even trying to keep it up. That 1 boon, that is being applied brainless is destroying my whole and only spec I can play just because I hit myself for almost 10k damage when probably not even hitting the 10k myself with blurred frenzy. I deal less damage with BF than they deal to me with retaliation. I don’t think I will need to explain why, because hopefully you can think yourself too.

So tell me again, why you think retaliation is so ’’skillfull’’ and why my request is ’’crying’’ for buffs. I’m at the moment getting a little kittened off by people who think they know it better but actually know nothing about this whole game.

if u r doing stuff for rewards why do u even wvw? just go pve, better rewards

Meh. There is only one contention to be made about the idea that Mesmers somehow need to do “poorly” in raids, due to 1v1 prowess. (Mind you, this same contention also directly counters the -arguably outdated- class description from the game’s launch).

Namely that the game is not now -and never will be- balanced around 1v1 combat.

Honestly, the argument of needing a tad bit more to do in large-scale combat is
not nearly as unfair as some might think. Indeed, the same argument can be -and has been- made by Thieves, in that Venoms aren’t terribly effective in anything past a 5-man group.

So, let’s consider that -as we can probably all agree- that Mesmers now are a degree
less efficient in large-scale combat than they once were. Let’s also consider that the
“Zerg Ball” business got a lot more prevalent with the WvW Confusion damage being nerfed by 50%. Is it then unrealistic to want something other than Utility-Duty?

maha.7902:

I roamed a lot more recently (this month), and it sucked. I’m not going to inflict pug zerging on myself because of how boring it is, and I’m not in a WvW guild anymore so raiding is out of the question.

yes, u roamed=1v1 1v2 1v3
roaming a little bit doesnt make u an expert of the state of mesmers in wvw at all. we fight in zergs massive battles and thats mainly what wvw is about.u gotta understand that if u do small duellike combat all the time u will have a way different pov on mesmer balance than somebody that plays in raids.
i am in a zerg busting guilds 20 vs 40+ and 90% of our fights are outnumbered. and sorry but mes is not viable atm in groupfights.

hihey.1075:

Blackdevil is talking about big group fights, against which not a single thing you mentioned is a reliable source of “Retaliation removal”.

I’m confused. last time I checked, Retaliation is a boon. I just gave you 7 ways to strip boons, one of which can be traited and used 4 times within the 2 seconds WHILE you are dodge-rolling. If that’s not reliable enough for you, being invulnerable for 2.5 seconds isn’t going to help.

If you want nerfs undone so you’ll be more useful in zergs, it should be the Glamour build ones. They allowed a coordinated handful of mesmers to take out an entire zerg.

I completely agree with you Doiid. Retal has honestly been broken for a long time and anet did say they wanted to change it (1 year ago). Considering I just Blurred Frenzied to try and save myself in a zerg only to take 14k retal damage is really fun zzzzz. I understand your frustration Blackdevil and I hope that your feedback gets heard by someone.

And to maha, mes is only used for veil and picking people off (although thieves can pick people off better debatably). If you think mes doesn’t need buffs in raiding youre truly insane. If blurred frenzy was immune to retal or just retal was reworked to not be so skilless we wouldn’t have this discussion. However, Blackdevil is identifying a very clear problem that needs to be fixed (and hopefully it will be fixed within 2 years).

Crossplay.2067:

If you want nerfs undone so you’ll be more useful in zergs, it should be the Glamour build ones. They allowed a coordinated handful of mesmers to take out an entire zerg.

I’m sure quite a few Mesmer players would jump for frigging joy if that happened.
Hell, I could work up some nasty business if ANet’d just revert the Blinding Befuddlement nerf, as ridiculous and unneeded as it was …

Crossplay.2067:

I’m confused. last time I checked, Retaliation is a boon. I just gave you 7 ways to strip boons, one of which can be traited and used 4 times within the 2 seconds WHILE you are dodge-rolling. If that’s not reliable enough for you, being invulnerable for 2.5 seconds isn’t going to help.

Crossplay.2067:

I’m not one to toss around hostility as that only turns a debate into an argument. However, between Null Field, Arcane Thievery, Phantasmal Disenchanter, Mind Stab, Mind Spike and Shattered Concentration, you can’t find a way to keep boons off of an opponent?

Let’s break them down:
Null field : A static, medium radius field that strips boons randomly once per second. You may be lucky to get 2 ticks from it before the enemy in it either dies due your melee or they moved out to do a regroup/push on your backline/flank around to peel the enemy team/ etc.etc.

Arcane thievery: A single target skill that steals 3 boons from the enemy. You’re never gonna use this. You’re stuck to null field- blink -veil on your utility bar. Even if you had the space, it’s no reliable way of removing as the range is quite low and the skill is really buggy.

Phantasmal disenchanter: Shoots out a bolt on low range, can be killed easily by aoe, you don’t have space for it on your utility bar and it only affects…2? people which only removes 1 boon that most likely isn’t retaliation.

Mind stab: To use this you have to be close and used the first 2 attacks in the chain. If you’re gonna stand in the melee spamming 1 against another melee then you’re dead before you even got to the 3rd attack of the chain. Let alone even hitting the 3rd attack. This also removes only 1 boon and affects only 3 people.

Shattered concentration: Shatter skills are main part of your ’’bomb’’ because you have to stand up close. To survive close to the enemy ’’zerg’’ or melee you will have to pop any form of evade/immunity simpily cause you just dont have heavy armor or any reliable way of protection upkeep. Sure this trait is really good, but you’re not gonna cast all your shatter skills and remove up to 16 boons from 5 targets untill you maybe removed retaliation from the enemy to cast your blurred frenzy. You also just don’t got the time to do that. Shatter burst is a very momentum burst. You either do it right or you will get kittened. It’s not like you are 2 seconds too slow and you’re still jumping in zergs while your melee already moved out. You move in from the side the moment your melee hits or just before your melee hits, you unleash the burst and you jump out again.

As you can probably conclude yourself, none of these skills have a good chance of removing retaliation before you have used your burst, which, as mentioned in the OP, deals 14k damage to yourself from retaliation only.

Blurred frenzy is just a wierd skill. It’s surely not the best skill to burst with, has a fairly long casting time, makes you ’’stuck’’ on the spot you have used it though it gives you evade so it’s probably a defensive skill, but pretty much works against you the moment you use it against multiple people with retaliation. I’ve yet to see defensive skills in this game killing players the moment they use it against multiple people. It’s like a guardian using his Line of Warding and he instantly blows up because people walked against it.

Crossplay.2067:

If you want nerfs undone so you’ll be more useful in zergs, it should be the Glamour build ones. They allowed a coordinated handful of mesmers to take out an entire zerg.

W…what? No? Do you even know how easy to play that was? You drop 2/3 fields on the enemy and then… you run around and do nothing. It surely was able to coördinate, but I highly doubt that any of the reverted nerfs besides confusion nerf is gonna make them much better to coördinate than it can be atm. Besides, the build was way too strong. You could stand on 1200 yards and just freecast your glamour skills and you saw the numbers adding up super fast. It was fun to see, but honestly, it was way too easy.
Blinding B nerf is mainly caused cause of chaos armor. If they revert that nerf you’re not gonna get much coordination because you’re not gonna jump in like some monkey in the enemy and say ‘’hey guys, come hit me!’’. They CBA about those 1 or 2 confusion stacks they get cause you will just die in seconds.

Also, back in the old days when it was viable, people didnt use -condition duration food/runes. They ( or at least we as red guard) used healing on crit or on kill food combined with soldier runes, divinity runes or any max dps runes. At the moment melee trains just ingore the few stacks of confusion you apply to them cause of -65% condition duration.

Black, sometimes I wonder if we’re playing the same game. I don’t seem to have half the problems you do and I consider myself to be average at best at WvW. Here’s how my breakdown goes.

Null Field: Yes, it is static. That makes it perfect for chokepoints and sieges. At chokepoints, the enemy zerg has to either run through it and lose their buffs (even two helps immensely) or stand behind it so it zones. It’s even better when sieging because they have to stand at walls to attack so if you position yourself at the edge of their range, they have to stand in it the whole duration just to hit you. Also, if you’re in a zerg too, I would hope you’d have atleast one other mesmer to work with. If not, anyone with a skill that makes walls will help greatly.

Arcane Thievery: I have to agree that it is buggy, but in smaller confrontations, it can be a gamechanger. I also don’t subscribe to the “stuck with these utilities” mentality. Even I’m hard-pressed to give up Blink but I have survived on my other characters without it. I can also make that adjustment on my mesmer.

Phantasmal Disenchanter: Where did you get only 2 bounces from? Perhaps it works differently in wvw as I’ve only used it in pve but when I did, it bounced 2 times untraited, 3 times with Elasticity. That’s 3 and 4 enemies hit, respectively. It also has a tendency to spawn behind the targeted enemy, attacks almost as fast as clones do and has a 20-second cooldown, untraited. In my opinion, it’s highly underrated.

Mind Stab: I’m sure you meant Mind Spike in your argument against this skill. Mind Stab is the AoE from greatsword. While laskluster for damage, it does a great job at removing boons and pops too fast to be dodged. On its own, it’s “meh” and needs buffs but in a boon-ripping build it’s the go-to power when you absolutely, positively have to strip a boon NOW. Also, from using it on Veteran Karka, I find that it prefers to strip retaliation over stability and regeneration. I need to do more testing to be certain I’m not one a lucky streak but, so far, it has been sniping retaliation first 100%.

Mind Spike: I don’t know how you do it but I’ve always been able to get the third hit off, even when I go kamikaze against the enemy zerg. Are you trying to go yolo in zerker gear?

Shattered Concentration: Yes, if you stand on the front lines and send in the clones, they will die easily. They are easy targets afterall. However, if you do suicide runs into the middle of an enemy zerg, you can pop a few and go boom before they realize you’re there. First, they don’t expect anyone to do something so crazy. Second, zerg mentality has much of the group focused on what’s in front of them so you may be shocked how easy it is to approach solo from the side. Third, yes it pretty much is a deathwish but, those that focus on you aren’t fighting your zerg. Becoming a martyr may be just enough to push the battle in your favor, especially if you’re not alone in doing so. If nothing else, it a LOT more exciting than being a veilbot!

The only thing I’ve come close to concluding is that you seem to be taking others’ word on how things work instead of trying it for yourself or perhaps you think powers still work like they did over a year ago. If such is the case, neither situation is helping you become a better player. My one piece of advice for you is something I’m still learning; always try things out for yourself. Sometimes you’ll be surprised at what you’ll find. For instance, I have an alt mesmer with a heal build that’s so strong, she laughs at the Elite Risen Noble near the Gallow’s Hang skillpoint. At times she gains over 1,000 hp for every tick of the Ether Signet while having over 43 seconds of Regeneration.

Also, I still stand by my initial point. While I feel the devs in charge of balancing need to be fired, I do agree with a part of the change made to Blurred Frenzy. In its original state, it only had weaknesses, not counter measures. That meant a mesmer could use it mindlessly and the person playing against them had no way of stopping them. Now you have to check your target before using it, which requires insight into what your opponents can do, having a pre-planned countermeasure and reflexes fast enough to put such a plans into motion. All of those things add depth to the game. Why would you want to take that away?

And if all you did for Glamour was drop a few fields and kite, I feel for you. There’s so much more you could be doing at the same time to make your opponents miserable.

Again, I want to stress that there are no counter-measures in the strict sense you’re thinking of against dozens of skills and mechanics in this game. How do you counter Obsidian Flesh? Flanking Strike? Serpent’s Strike? Withdraw? Renewed Focus?

The expected play and response of different skills changes depending on the case in question. In some instances you are punished as a player for plowing through them. In others, you are punished for not doing so (c.f. Guardian’s Shield of Wrath).

In Blurred Frenzy’s case you are a Mesmer with a sword and so you are given some evade time. There was and still is an appropriate counter-measure: you can wait the ~2 seconds before answering with your own powerful abilities. You can move away from him to avoid the damage. You gain the knowledge that his skill is now on a 10 – 12 second cooldown. Is it a must that players should in addition able to damage the Mesmer through the root as well? If so, why?

Crossplay you do know I’m talking about large scale fights right? The problem with almost all things besides null field is that you can’t rely on if it removes retaliation or not, whereas null field is on a 40 seconds cooldown. Sure you can remove it, while 1/2 of those options you’ve said are far from reliable or even are going to work any time, but you’re never gonna remove it just before you jump in. It’s just not possible in the current rotation. You don’t use your shatters before BF, neither do you have null field up every time you gonna jump in, neither you will have arcane thievery up to cast on 3 guys just before you jump in, etc etc.
I’m in the best EU guild at the moment and I started raiding again a bit. It’s not like I don’t know how to play or what I’m doing wrong. It’s also not every time i use BF that I melt 14k, it’s just the fact that it can happen and surely will happen against coördinated guilds.

Anyway, yeah mis-read that mind stab. I guess it’s possible for the first engage, but do keep in mind that the first push enemy’s are gonna use their stand your grounds, which applies retaliation. There’s a huge chance it will be reapplied in the time you removed it and you jump in to do the bomb. Then again I’m running nearly full zerker 10-30-0-0-30 atm the moment. I can’t pay too much attention in waiting for the perfect moment. If you do that you’ll miss it kinda.

You could always blow distortion while you blurred frenzy since you’re playing shatter. Invuln the retal damage.

Good luck getting Anet to revert BF anytime soon though. Can’t even get them to fix build-breaking bugs like iLeap and iWarden, much less nuanced tweaks like giving BF invuln.

Renny.6571:

Glad someone else noticed. I’ve been complaining about this for a while. Easy fix would be to make retal return a % of damage taken, scaling with power. An easier fix would be to give BF the invul back tho.

Agreed. Good and sensible points made by Blackdevil.

Playing Guardian has also helped open my eyes a lot, so easy to reapply boons and to be covered in organised group. Also constant movement to stay out of wells/nullfields.

I think one thing missing here is spvp, imo it was absolutely a change made for spvp where blurred frenzy on a point was very powerful. Really needed something for wvw to balance it out, or division of skills. Although given the state of mesmer balance in spvp, could probably revert it without a problem.

Keep in mind that Null Field, Veil, Portal, Feedback, etc. are all great utilities to help a zerg but the fact is, Mesmer just isn’t a zerg vs zerg class per se.

Playing Warrior, I basically tripled the amount WXP and Ranks and obtained much much more loot bags in 5 months than playing my Mesmer for 1 year.

We really need our Glamour builds back.

veil/portal are god… but you need only 1-2 mesmer per zerk for it

shimmerless.4560:

Again, I want to stress that there are no counter-measures in the strict sense you’re thinking of against dozens of skills and mechanics in this game. How do you counter Obsidian Flesh? Flanking Strike? Serpent’s Strike? Withdraw? Renewed Focus?

Your argument falls apart when you start comparing blurred frenzy to those skills.

Obsidian Flesh is a 4 second invulnerability skill on a 50 second cooldown. Sure. it’s amazing when it’s up but what do you do while it’s not? This isn’t even taking into account of possible attunement lockouts where you might not even be able to attune to earth when you need this skill. Not to mention this is on one of the worst zerg weapons of the squishiest class in game.

Flanking strike is “spammable”, deals ok damage but only gives a 1/2 second evade. In small scale fights that is very useful if you chain it with other evades, but in zerg situations that won’t help you much either while the aoe is going off everywhere.

Serpent’s strike’s pretty much the same as flanking strike except with 3/4 s evade and a 15 second cooldown. I doubt anyone’s really using that as a main survival tool in the heat of battle.

withdraw would be more useful defensively because it relocates you, but it’s a healing skill on a 15 second cooldown, that doesn’t do damage and gives only a 3/4 second evade.

Renewed focus is an elite skill. 90 second cool down for 2 seconds of invulnerability while you’re channeling it, while you’re doing no damage or anything else.

In comparison to those:

Blurred frenzy is a 2 and 1/2 second evade skill that deals decent damage, on a 12 second cool down.

The fact that it’s susceptible to retal just means you should only use it if you aren’t going to get blown up. Just like every other class with aoe attacks (which people in this thread seems to think are few), mesmers have to consider retal before throwing down blurred frenzy.

As mentioned before, Staff Elementalists get melted by retal from Meteor showers, lava fonts, fire autos, or even static fields…and other classes including engis, necros and rangers also get a lot of retal hate. Blurred frenzy hardly gets the worst of retal.

Mesmers have their issues in zerg situations for sure, but blurred frenzy is certainly not the change it needs in that respect. What they need is alternative builds, not for blurred frenzy to be changed so you can run in the front of the zerg as a squishy and expect not to get insta-popped.

Glamour builds can’t be brought back. Confusion builds can, however, be brought back.
Then again, our ’’amazing’’ utilities, which aren’t much better than those of a necromancer or guardian, are only worth 5% of your time. The rest aka 95% of your time you have to do something. Glamour builds would result in exactly the same. Being useless for a massive amount of time is not really something I would call ’’usefull’’, let alone fun to play.

Edit; @ shadowflare
Alternative builds like what? Phantasm? Never gonna happen and you surely know why. Glamour? Impossible to bring back due confusion nerf. Confusion builds? Maybe, if they rework chaos armor a bit, but this would only come down to fairly brainless play due the fact that you will be running full Dire armor and just running into blobs with full tank and chaos armor on to apply a lot confusion. Or what about interrupt builds? Well, I can tell you, there has to be a lot to change will that be our new meta. We would need a way to do a lot more aoe CC which requires new traits and/or skills.

Full zerker shatter is much harder to play than just smashing your head on your keyboard like a shout warrior does, while applying decent damage but still requires to have at least 1 guardian and 1 shout warrior to survive. That’s what I am up at the moment when fighting uncoördinated blobs, but I just can’t imagine it ever working against guilds or organised groups. Retal will just kill at least 60% of your health every 12 seconds. It’s either that or do nothing/spam 1 greatsword. It’s not like you can’t get insta-gibbed the moment your blurred frenzy is off. 1 immobilize and you can be dead, especially if you dont have blink ready.

BlackDevil.9268:

Glamour builds can’t be brought back. Confusion builds can, however, be brought back.
Then again, our ’’amazing’’ utilities, which aren’t much better than those of a necromancer or guardian, are only worth 5% of your time. The rest aka 95% of your time you have to do something. Glamour builds would result in exactly the same. Being useless for a massive amount of time is not really something I would call ’’usefull’’, let alone fun to play.

Edit; @ shadowflare
Alternative builds like what? Phantasm? Never gonna happen and you surely know why. Glamour? Impossible to bring back due confusion nerf. Confusion builds? Maybe, if they rework chaos armor a bit, but this would only come down to fairly brainless play due the fact that you will be running full Dire armor and just running into blobs with full tank and chaos armor on to apply a lot confusion. Or what about interrupt builds? Well, I can tell you, there has to be a lot to change will that be our new meta. We would need a way to do a lot more aoe CC which requires new traits and/or skills.

Full zerker shatter is much harder to play than just smashing your head on your keyboard like a shout warrior does, while applying decent damage but still requires to have at least 1 guardian and 1 shout warrior to survive. That’s what I am up at the moment when fighting uncoördinated blobs, but I just can’t imagine it ever working against guilds or organised groups. Retal will just kill at least 60% of your health every 12 seconds. It’s either that or do nothing/spam 1 greatsword. It’s not like you can’t get insta-gibbed the moment your blurred frenzy is off. 1 immobilize and you can be dead, especially if you dont have blink ready.

Alternative builds like new builds that don’t exist as of yet. As it stands right now mesmers don’t have what it takes to do much more other than a support role. Even if you count the staff, we don’t get many tags, and that’s how it is. Either wait for the game to change or re-roll. You can try and force your way into a aoe tagging machine but no matter what you do you will never be the same as an elementalist in the CURRENT game.

Changing blurred frenzy isn’t going to solve your WvW issues.

Sucks? well that’s how it is. Many, but not all of the classes have had their share of waiting. It’s just the mesmer’s turn.

New builds like what? Stop saying no to whatever is requested and come up with things yourself. Like I said, all aspects of what mesmer has at the moment is not gonna give mesmer any good unless they get a massive rework and that’s not gonna happen for at least a 1 year.

BlackDevil.9268:

New builds like what? Stop saying no to whatever is requested and come up with things yourself.

I use my mesmer in primarily spvp. Blurred frenzy does its job perfectly fine there and frankly before and after I started playing mesmer, I can see why they nerfed it. Pure immunity on a 12 second cooldown?

What new builds? I don’t know. I’m sure I can come up with ideas given time but that’s not really important to this thread. You’re complaining about blurred frenzy, I’m telling you that’s not an issue. You want to explore new builds? Go start a new thread.

BlackDevil.9268:

Like I said, all aspects of what mesmer has at the moment is not gonna give mesmer any good unless they get a massive rework and that’s not gonna happen for at least a 1 year.

Bingo. So wait. There are many classes that waited for their reworks. Like I said. It’s the mesmer’s turn.

I’ve waited already 1.5 year for the meta to change in WvW for mesmer, nothing changed yet so no, I’m not gonna wait another 1 year for them to rework to a profession where it’s even more kitten.

Ok, good it does it’s job there. Sadly, sword isn’t meta in spvp because you need staff for mobility and greatsword for ranged preasure. It doesn’t do it’s job in large scale, which it should because that’s what mesmers need to become somewhat viable again without chaging the whole profession.

Shatter is designed for jumping in and out and also designed for multiple targets. Blurred frenzy, however, was designed for multiple targets to deal damage while surviving. At the moment it’s ’’designed’’ only for small scale using in thin air because it’s damage is kitten, the hits can kill you due retaliation and it can get you kittened up when used against shocking aura.

Shadowflare.2759:

Bingo. So wait. There are many classes that waited for their reworks. Like I said. It’s the mesmer’s turn.

This is a bizarre thing to say – reworks happen based on feedback when things aren’t working, which is exactly what this thread is about. It’s also an issue that has been for many months, so hardly a kneejerk request for balance. Not to mention that there is no reason for classes to ‘take their turn’ in balance, it’s not impossible to help make all classes viable in one form or another, or at least take simple steps to improve quality of life.

BlackDevil.9268:

I’ve waited already 1.5 year for the meta to change in WvW for mesmer, nothing changed yet so no, I’m not gonna wait another 1 year for them to rework to a profession where it’s even more kitten.

Ok, good it does it’s job there. Sadly, sword isn’t meta in spvp because you need staff for mobility and greatsword for ranged preasure. It doesn’t do it’s job in large scale, which it should because that’s what mesmers need to become somewhat viable again without chaging the whole profession.

Shatter is designed for jumping in and out and also designed for multiple targets. Blurred frenzy, however, was designed for multiple targets to deal damage while surviving. At the moment it’s ’’designed’’ only for small scale using in thin air because it’s damage is kitten, the hits can kill you due retaliation and it can get you kittened up when used against shocking aura.

yeah i agree. after glam nerf, i felt kinda lost at first, but i am in kylia’s guild AVTR and he came up with a few ideas which we followed and kept going…but more and more nerfs hit mes hard and many lost interest..i used to be positive and hoping each patch that anet would give wvw mes something back, but no, we got more bugs and nerfs instead! it’s bee too long and now i rerolled necro and only play mes once in a while in hotjoin…..i really lost hope… the mes time waiting? we waited since the glam nerf and it will take 1 more year the way anet treats mes!

sendmark.4731:

Shadowflare.2759:

Bingo. So wait. There are many classes that waited for their reworks. Like I said. It’s the mesmer’s turn.

This is a bizarre thing to say – reworks happen based on feedback when things aren’t working, which is exactly what this thread is about. It’s also an issue that has been for many months now, so hardly a kneejerk request for balance.

You’re quite right. reworks happen based on feedback. But let me ask you, what point is there asking for one skill to be changed when it was adjusted with good reason? If you want a rework, give feedback to the possibilities of NEW things. Mesmers have trouble with larger scale fighting, this is in largely due to class design and so obviously is no easy task to rework.

sendmark.4731:

Not to mention that there is no reason for classes to ‘take their turn’ in balance, it’s not impossible to make all classes viable in one form or another.

Ideally, of course. Looking back at the history of GW2 so far though, do you really believe that. Would I like Anet to make balancing changes faster? hell yes. But they don’t, and as such, each class WILL have to wait.

Mesmer is in a tough place because they ARE useful in WvW. Their uses just don’t necessarily coincide with getting bags. Thieves on the other hand might be getting bags with their shortbow but they’re probably one of the least useful classes in a zerg.

As for BlackDevil. I’m sorry but you’re arguing about class design issues. You can only hope that Anet decides to revert (in part) some of the nerfs at least in WvW or that they introduce new aoe mechanics for the mesmer.

Honestly though, this just comes off as complaints of someone who hasn’t experienced other classes at their worst. I’ve been there for multiple classes because I like playing the underdog, and I have to say the place for mesmer isn’t THAT bad.

Shadowflare.2759:

shimmerless.4560:

Again, I want to stress that there are no counter-measures in the strict sense you’re thinking of against dozens of skills and mechanics in this game. How do you counter Obsidian Flesh? Flanking Strike? Serpent’s Strike? Withdraw? Renewed Focus?

Your argument falls apart when you start comparing blurred frenzy to those skills.

You’re starting to cross-compare skills between classes on a broader level, which wasn’t my argument. Mine was simply that, if people are claiming there were no counters to Blurred Frenzy before because you couldn’t use retal or aura effects, then this goes for a great, great many other abilities too. So why is Blurred Frenzy singled out?

I think you and many other posters are also drastically underestimating the downside of the root and its potential for intelligent players to exploit it. It is already a melee weapon which means you are susceptible to being kited. The skill gives you an evade (although even before the nerf it was subject to silliness like Binding Blide and Nightmare rune procs) but it amplifies your traditional weakness in that you’re rooted on spot and your opponent can move out and avoid all damage. Please tell me what has changed for the better in allowing players to thoughtlessly “face-tank” the skill too? The opportunity cost for using Blurred Frenzy (and sword in general) can be rather high whereas applying retal to oneself, well, is it quite as much?

I should point out that I am not solely questioning Blurred Frenzy’s zerg potential. Retal and saturation AoE are just as common in sPvP too, and until ANet decides to split the skill we are discussing it as though it were used in all game modes anyway.

when was this nerfed???

shimmerless.4560:

Shadowflare.2759:

shimmerless.4560:

Again, I want to stress that there are no counter-measures in the strict sense you’re thinking of against dozens of skills and mechanics in this game. How do you counter Obsidian Flesh? Flanking Strike? Serpent’s Strike? Withdraw? Renewed Focus?

Your argument falls apart when you start comparing blurred frenzy to those skills.

You’re starting to cross-compare skills between classes on a broader level, which wasn’t my argument. Mine was simply that, if people are claiming there were no counters to Blurred Frenzy before because you couldn’t use retal or aura effects, then this goes for a great, great many other abilities too. So why is Blurred Frenzy singled out?

Those abilities you mention that give true invulnerability doesn’t do damage and come attached with high cooldowns. That’s their downside.

Those other skills that only grant evade would then suffer from retal and auras just like blurred frenzy now does.

It’s not hard to see why blurred frenzy is singled out. It’s a decent-damage skill that grants 2 1/2 seconds of temporary reprieve on a relatively short cooldown. Pre-nerf it was free invuln every 10 seconds.

shimmerless.4560:

I think you and many other posters are also drastically underestimating the downside of the root and its potential for intelligent players to exploit it. It is already a melee weapon which means you are susceptible to being kited. The skill gives you an evade (although even before the nerf it was subject to silliness like Binding Blide and Nightmare rune procs) but it amplifies your traditional weakness in that you’re rooted on spot and your opponent can move out and avoid all damage. Please tell me what has changed for the better in allowing players to thoughtlessly “face-tank” the skill too? The opportunity cost for using Blurred Frenzy (and sword in general) can be rather high whereas applying retal to oneself, well, is it quite as much?

I should point out that I am not solely questioning Blurred Frenzy’s zerg potential. Retal and saturation AoE are just as common in sPvP too, and until ANet decides to split the skill we are discussing it as though it were used in all game modes anyway.

So…there are more things to consider to using the skill…big whoop? Just like your enemies are intelligent, so should you be. No one should go in a fight expecting to land every attack they throw out, (and honestly who uses this skill unless you’re likely to land more than half of the hits) and in WvW, retaliation WILL be common, but that just means you don’t use it whenever you feel like. When I drop a meteor shower as an ele, or a barrage as a ranger, or wells as a necro, I do so expecting retaliation.

What’s so special about a low cd weapon skill that it should be free from retaliation damage?

I think we are perhaps at a crossroads. I can’t seem to convince you that Blurred Frenzy isn’t quite as powerful as you make it out to be, and I likewise doubt you’ll convince me on the merits of letting retal go through it.

You seem a little fixated on the (relatively) low cooldown of Blurred Frenzy. This is a deceptive line of thinking. Take Obsidian Flesh for example. It has roughly four times the cooldown, but you are not rooted in place, you can use all other abilities (and attunement swaps) and it can even be used while stunned. In the hands of a knowledgeable player this skill can be just as if not more effective than a Mesmer’s sword on a more regular basis. Simply moving away from a glass Elementalist is not going to cut it when he uses this skill. On a similar note evades like Flanking Strike and Disabling Shot have no cooldown at all.

On the whole sword is a balanced weapon that errs on the side of defense. This is true for all the classes who can use a sword. Rangers have a total of ~1.5 seconds of evade uptime and heal denial, Guardians have a full projectile block, Warriors and Thieves have a displacement that doesn’t require a target (and in the case of Thieves it clears a condition). Of course retal can go through an evade, but this is misleading since the only comparable multi-hit skill is Pistol Whip, which did have issues with retal until the Trickery line was buffed.

When you approach skills holistically you understand why it is folly to cross-compare too much. One of the key differences between a Mesmer’s sword and another class’ set and a good reason it’s unwise to balance it out of context is that our sword is heavily weighted on the effectiveness of Blurred Frenzy. We are the only light class trying to use one and if we have to stand in place for two seconds it needs to be for a very good reason. (Swap has some defensive uses but it is much less reliable). Twelve seconds may sound short but it is a very long time for a glassy Mesmer, which is why skills and their cooldowns are so relative. But if players are still having trouble trying to combat this skill without abusing retal then I don’t know what more I can say.

I don’t think power mesmers gonna be “viable” in raid until we get a new weapon with some respectable AoE. Anything else would require a pretty major rework, and that’s not realistically gonna happen anytime soon.

Glamour’s the closest thing you’re gonna get to a raid spec (insert for censor dodge) until then. The damage is kinda weak-sauce, but the utility of feedback and null field is…something, and the confusion has no AoE cap, so that’s something too. It also scales really well with more mesmers; you’re not gonna reach 25 confusion stacks with just 1 or 2. If you’re just there to be a veilbot anyway, glamour lets you trait for CD reduction.

As evidence, here’s a clip. Audios muted cause the driver’s camera shy.

You can skip to 4:30 to get to the main fight, but the whole things pretty fun to watch.

Reflecting burns with feedback + virtue of justice from guardians gives you some decent burn damage. You still take a ton of retal damage sometimes, but that’s damage you’re protecting your team from.

Then again, that blob you were fighting was utterly terrible. They were just standing there casting… projectiles? Sorry but that’s not or no, never gonna work in the EU. I’m not surprised though. US is behind with meta and most of the people, especially pugs, are just bad.
What would happen in EU is that 50-60man blob pushing up the ledge with more than enough guardians and warriors to push through. Eventually they would die, but at least set up a fight instead of standing there to get nuked. Then again, everyone in the EU uses -condi food, as every commander drops the food every hour to keep them people buffed.
Then again, the damage you’re doing seems much, but it isn’t in fact. The damage is so spread and totally not coördinated. 1/2 of the damage you reflect, will be healed the moment your group arrives to that person who got reflected. I’d say it’s only good because you’re protecting your allies from projectiles. Do keep in mind that projectiles are mostly things that deal the lowest damage, because most projectles are auto attacks.

You can check my stream of at least 3 hours and see why power shatter works. It just doesn’t work the moment you bomb yourself to death against those who know how to use ‘’stand your ground’’ and such, which is just stupid cause minimal skill changes can totally destroy your spec.

watched tht video. the zerg really was terrible and yes on glamour u will see many numbers, but look closer and see how tiny that dmg is. on my necro i deal more than double of that and yes i have 5 people cap,but my then again im dealing way more dmg with my power well necro build. its raining lootbags and i feel important in my zergbusting guild on my necro. on my mes…. i tried glamour torment build, glam hybrids triforce and all that…the dmg output is too small, conditions get cleansed by a zerg wayyyy to quickly and due to the zergs loving to rush backline, my survivability skills are not good enough on glam mes to escape zergs like this.
see the numbers u are geting?
check what it was like before the massive nerfs happened.

yes, that dmg was too high and needed shaving, but not the nerf it got. same with blurred frenzie nerf being uncalled for.

Crossplay.2067:

Curunen.8729:

I’d prefer change evade to invuln on hitting an enemy with one hit of blurred frenzy – that should negate retaliation completely.

And that would just cause retaliation to become worthless.

But that’s the point of the topic! To make Reta become worthless against Blurred Frenzy

shimmerless.4560:

I think we are perhaps at a crossroads. I can’t seem to convince you that Blurred Frenzy isn’t quite as powerful as you make it out to be, and I likewise doubt you’ll convince me on the merits of letting retal go through it.

You seem a little fixated on the (relatively) low cooldown of Blurred Frenzy. This is a deceptive line of thinking. Take Obsidian Flesh for example. It has roughly four times the cooldown, but you are not rooted in place, you can use all other abilities (and attunement swaps) and it can even be used while stunned. In the hands of a knowledgeable player this skill can be just as if not more effective than a Mesmer’s sword on a more regular basis. Simply moving away from a glass Elementalist is not going to cut it when he uses this skill. On a similar note evades like Flanking Strike and Disabling Shot have no cooldown at all.

Obsidian flesh is as I said, amazing when it’s off cooldown (barring attunement lockout). Best invulnerability skill in game. HOWEVER, the skill on its own is a purely defensive skill. Combined with other skills of course the elementalist can make some power plays, but the skill itself is just a defensive skill, on the squshiest class in game and on the weapon set with the least mobility. Without additional follow up plays though those 4 seconds are just buying time.

Blurred frenzy on the other hand is both a defensive and offensive skill at the same time with a relatively low cooldown. Giving us true invulnerability just means that every 12 seconds we can use this skill WITHOUT fear of any consequences (aside from the obvious case of terrible timing/missing skill). Free damage if I hit them and free invuln if I don’t. Can obsidian flesh users do that? no. Because of the long cooldown, they have to make kitten sure that when they use it, it’s because it’s absolutely necessary, and if it’s a glass ele using this, then they probably have nothing to follow up if they haven’t bursted you down already and becomes an easy kill.

Self-rooting and retal damage are just things to think about before using the skill, and i’m not sure as I’m not at my pc so I can’t check, but I remember being able to cancel blurred frenzy as well, so in that case you can stop yourself from hurting yourself even more.

Bottom line, you shouldn’t have the best of both worlds and I still don’t see why the skill should be exempt from retaliation when the mechanics involved are reasonable. If anything, the problem may be that retaliation itself needs a rework to have diminishing return so it isn’t so brainless, but blurred frenzy is fine as is.

shimmerless.4560:

On the whole sword is a balanced weapon that errs on the side of defense. This is true for all the classes who can use a sword. Rangers have a total of ~1.5 seconds of evade uptime and heal denial, Guardians have a full projectile block, Warriors and Thieves have a displacement that doesn’t require a target (and in the case of Thieves it clears a condition). Of course retal can go through an evade, but this is misleading since the only comparable multi-hit skill is Pistol Whip, which did have issues with retal until the Trickery line was buffed.

When you approach skills holistically you understand why it is folly to cross-compare too much. One of the key differences between a Mesmer’s sword and another class’ set and a good reason it’s unwise to balance it out of context is that our sword is heavily weighted on the effectiveness of Blurred Frenzy. We are the only light class trying to use one and if we have to stand in place for two seconds it needs to be for a very good reason. (Swap has some defensive uses but it is much less reliable). Twelve seconds may sound short but it is a very long time for a glassy Mesmer, which is why skills and their cooldowns are so relative. But if players are still having trouble trying to combat this skill without abusing retal then I don’t know what more I can say.

Mesmers have a lot more escape tools when in smaller scale fights as well, you know what I’m talking about so I won’t bother listing them. The problem we have is because the mesmer mechanic is based on clones which do not work well in zerg situations. That is a whole other topic however, and it’s more about a rework than changing blurred frenzy.

Xaurniven.2065:

Crossplay.2067:

Curunen.8729:

I’d prefer change evade to invuln on hitting an enemy with one hit of blurred frenzy – that should negate retaliation completely.

And that would just cause retaliation to become worthless.

But that’s the point of the topic! To make Reta become worthless against Blurred Frenzy

Retal should be independant of player stats (power) and simply scale as a percentage of damage taken. Then blurred frenzy is fine.

You remain to keep your tunnel vision about this whole ‘’wait for rework’’ stuff. Seriously, how many professions did get a rework in 2 years? And how many of them improved raid gameplay? And how much complains were needed for that? Exactly. Reworks not gonna happen unless there’s a mass complain going on, which isn’t possible because most people already gave up on mesmer in raid. While 1 change could change so much instead of a year long rework. Reworks on professions are rare to be found in ’’free’’ mmo’s, so don’t expect mesmer getting such a massive rework.

I also still fail to see why you compare 2 totally different skills with eachother and be like ‘’oh but if BF does this, then it’s so much stronger than obsidian flesh’’. Yes, on paper it’s stronger. I can somewhat understand when you compare 2 totally different professions with eachother, but I can’t understand how you can even compare only 2 skills from 2 totally different professions with eachother. It’s like comparing line of warding to ‘’into the void’’ and be like ‘’oh line of warding is way too strong it definitely needs a nerf’‘. Ele can freecast on the side while mesmer has to jump in to actually be usefull. So yeah, no wonder we got such low cooldown ’’evade’’ skill that does nearly the same damage as #1 auto attack in the same time. Imagine mesmer having obsidian flesh instead of blurred frenzy. I can asure you, you’re not gonna survive. Not that you survive with blurred frenzy against coördinated groups though, but I guess you can figure out yourself why.

So in short; a mesmer needs blurred frenzy to survive and do his job, while an ele doesn’t even come close of needing obsidian flesh to survive. And even with the current blurred frenzy, its still incredibly hard to survive because of 1 braindead (yes, read few posts back why it’s braindead) boon.

I would be more than happy to get a full rework, but being realistic; that’s never gonna happen.

BlackDevil.9268:

You remain to keep your tunnel vision about this whole ‘’wait for rework’’ stuff. Seriously, how many professions did get a rework in 2 years? And how many of them improved raid gameplay? And how much complains were needed for that? Exactly. Reworks not gonna happen unless there’s a mass complain going on, which isn’t possible because most people already gave up on mesmer in raid. While 1 change could change so much instead of a year long rework. Reworks on professions are rare to be found in ’’free’’ mmo’s, so don’t expect mesmer getting such a massive rework.

Tunnel vision? I’m thinking of the bigger picture of actual aoe mechanics change, you’re strictly focusing on the status of a single skill, citing it as the “make-or-break” point for mesmers. Who’s tunnel visioning here? Instead of complaining about this one skill that’s fine as is, complain about things that ARE missing and needed.

BlackDevil.9268:

I also still fail to see why you compare 2 totally different skills with eachother and be like ‘’oh but if BF does this, then it’s so much stronger than obsidian flesh’’. Yes, on paper it’s stronger. I can somewhat understand when you compare 2 totally different professions with eachother, but I can’t understand how you can even compare only 2 skills from 2 totally different professions with eachother. It’s like comparing line of warding to ‘’into the void’’ and be like ‘’oh line of warding is way too strong it definitely needs a nerf’‘. Ele can freecast on the side while mesmer has to jump in to actually be usefull. So yeah, no wonder we got such low cooldown ’’evade’’ skill that does nearly the same damage as #1 auto attack in the same time. Imagine mesmer having obsidian flesh instead of blurred frenzy. I can asure you, you’re not gonna survive. Not that you survive with blurred frenzy against coördinated groups though, but I guess you can figure out yourself why.

So in short; a mesmer needs blurred frenzy to survive and do his job, while an ele doesn’t even come close of needing obsidian flesh to survive. And even with the current blurred frenzy, its still incredibly hard to survive because of 1 braindead (yes, read few posts back why it’s braindead) boon.

I would be more than happy to get a full rework, but being realistic; that’s never gonna happen.

If you actually paid more attention, it wasn’t I who started the comparison. I merely pointed out how silly of a comparison it was, which coincidentially is what you’re doing as well.

I don’t see why you need to be in the thick of things as a mesmer. Ranged professions stay ranged. I understand redguard seems to run a tight train for every class but honestly you’re forcing the profession into something it was not designed for. STAFF Elementalists only stay alive, for the most part, because of positioning. If they try to run in the zerg taking the bombs and aoe, they’ll die just like a sword mesmer would. This is clearly seen with D/D eles in larger battles involving 30+ people, they either skirt the edges or get insta-popped after their cantrips are gone.

Which brings me to question why you feel like you have to use blurred frenzy. Staff/GS is a thing you know. No one is asking you to just sit in the heat and be forced to use something that will retal yourself to death. Honestly in the video you posted I question why you were at the forefront of your side and attacking the enemy on your own, especially since you already know of the existence of retaliation.

As said in previous posts, it’s not like the (current) support aspect of the mesmer is tied heavily into the weapon skills (except focus to a small degree).

Sounds like you have a problem with retaliation itself, which is a whole other can of worms. I would be in support of reworks with retaliation also, but that still doesn’t mean blurred frenzy NEEDS to grant invulnerability. Conclusion? Go complain about things that are missing, like an viable aoe spec, instead of this one skill that is hardly the issue.

Staff/GS and do what exactly? Give me builds, don’t just throw kitten in and think ‘’ranged mesmer’’ is even close to viable.

PU got too much in 1. Regen, prot and aegis +1 sec longer stealth is just too much. Wereas thief loses his stealth when attacking, a mesmer can still deal a lot damage while being stealthed.
- PU’s buffs should all last 1 second shorter in duration.
- phantasm should get a 5-10% damage nerf
- mind blast should get a blast finisher
- Change mantra of distraction:
30 seconds cooldown – 2.75 sec casting time
Meditate, charging a spell that will daze your target.
Number of casts: 2
1 second Daze – 1200 yards
Change it to:
25 seconds cooldown – 2.25 seconds casting time (*please note that mantra casting time should be 2,25 instead of 2,75 Imo. 2.25 is just still a little bit too much. 2.5 would do too.)
Meditate, charging a spell that will daze your target.
Number of casts: 2
0.25 second daze – 1200 yards
- Add a new GM trait: GM trait dueling Illusioned Mantra’s:
Makes all mantra’s area of effect.
- Scepter #1 needs to be reworked and it’s velocity needs to go higher
- Scepter #2 torment needs to be scaled down to 4 stacks
- Scepter #3 needs to be changed to 2.5sec casting time instead of 3 seconds
- Chaos storm should have 40% of it’s ticks be dazes, while applying a condition every tick with it too.
- Chaotic Dampening now also provides Chaos storm to have a 20% extra chance (so 60% chance) to do daze every tick.
- Chaos storm cooldown has been increased to 40 from 35.
- Illusionary leap needs to be fixed or reworked
- Mimic needs a rework
- Moa needs reworked or replaced by another elite based on aoe lockdown
- Chaos armor needs to become an aura, so it can stack in duration. Blast finishers should reward 3 seconds of aura( instead of 2?).
- Blurred frenzy should be reworked to 6x hitting from 8x, but have it’s total damage remain the same and the casting time too.
- On clone death traits have an internal cooldown of 2 seconds, but have it’s duration increased by 25% to compensate.
- Blinding befuddlement got his internal cooldown removed
- Blinding befuddlement moved to grandmaster trait
- Imbued diversion moved to master trait, this trait works in combination with Illusionary persona
- Casting time of all mantra’s has been reduced to 2.25 sec casting time from 2.75
- Arcane thievery cooldown has been reduced to 40 seconds from 45
- Feedback has it’s cooldown reduced to 35 from 40
- Into the void it’s cooldown has been reduced to 0.5 seconds from 1 second.
- Temportal Curtain now gives 3 seconds of swiftness to allies walking through the Curtain who already got swiftness.
- Restorative Illusions now heals aoe radius of 360 up to 5 allies
- Cleansing inscriptions now allows you to remove 2 conditions when using a signet from 1.
- Shattered Strength (25 minor trait illusions) now grants 2 stacks of might for 10 seconds up from 1 stack.
- Cry of frustration has it’s damage increased by 25% and now applies 4 seconds of confusion up from 3 seconds.
- Restorative Mantra’s now scales 1.0 instead of 0.2 with healing power.
- Signet of inspiration now gives 1 random boon every 8 seconds instead of 10 and has its cooldown reduced to 30 seconds. This signet now only copy’s up to 5 boon instead of all.
- Signet of domination has its cooldown reduced to 35 seconds and it’s stun duration reduced to 2 seconds down from 3.
- Signet of illusions has it’s cooldown reduced to 60 seconds.
- Signet of Midnight has it’s cooldown reduced to 15 seconds. Or! Signet of midnight is now a blast finisher, reduced its cooldown to 25 seconds.

Here, full remake of mesmer to make mesmer viable in raids. Do you think that will ever happen? No, neither do I. So let’s just stick to the point that minimal changes such such as blurred frenzy can do almost the same. What do you think arenanet would rather go for if they get mass complains?

And no, in that video my guild was refreshing food and pushing the moment they refreshed which was like the moment I was done with the burst. The reason you also have to be ahead of your guild is because you’re not mobile while your melee is.

Also, as RG we ran 50/50. We never ran ‘’melee trains’‘.
I’m not forcing anything. Shatter is a fine aoe spec. The only kitten thing that kills it is retaliation because you need blurred frenzy to survive.

You seem to base everything on what you seem to be ’’logic’’, without having any experience at all.