Guild Wars 2

Dsiclaimer: I love playing my mesmer and it is my main. I think my few posts in the forum show that. With that in mind, we’ve all seen posts about nerfing mesmers. Eventually, these posters throw out the phrase, “If we could somehow charge it without nerfing” but never give a solution. After playing some of my alts, I’ve come up with an idea for blurred frenzy that I would like to share/have critiqued.
So the skills that I’ve taken inspiration from:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nine-Tailed_Strike
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Counterattack
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Riposte

All of these are ripostes but with variations/utility built in.When I use mesmer sword 4, it blocks the next attack but only does riposte damage if I’m within 600 range of the target. 9-tailed strike is a riposte attack that is basically a melee frenzy attack. Counter attack is the most interesting. With the ranger gs4, if you don’t have a target, it acts more like 3 seconds of blocking everything. The counter attack is a knockdown. Finally if you double tap it, it roots you and basically performs blade trail (warrior gs 4).

So, keeping with the active defense of a mesmer but also potentially adding more counter play, what if sword 2 for the mesmer became more like counter attack. Pressing sword 2 would go into a parry stance. If we don’t have a target, it would “blurr” us for 2 seconds and then end. The stance would not root the mesmer. If we have a target and the target hits us during the blur, blurred frenzy (Identical to what we currently have!) would happen. Double tap activation would be a flourish that does a spinning overhand chop spike to 1 enemy. It would maybe root you in place.

My reasons for proposing the idea: As a light armored class in melee, we need the active defense. A-net has been talking about nerfing AOE damage. This makes me a bit worried about Mind Wrack getting nerfed. I’m under the impression that A-net wants mesmer AOE to be relatively low so if the AOE nerf happens, I suspect that MW will get nerfed despite the fact that it is one of our few AOEs. However, this also means that single target damage needs to somehow go up to make it more viable in their idea of balance/choosing which skill to use at the right time. Finally, this would adress the complaints about not enough counter play.

Reason for these specific changes: The new skill gives us a full defensive mode, an offensive defense mode and a big single target spike mode. This would keep the defensive side of the skill just as good as before. (The cooldown would not happen until the skill is completely done. So 2 seconds of immune to damage every 10 seconds traited or up to 2 seconds blurr then 2 seconds blurred frenzy for 4 seconds every 12 seconds traited.) The full 4 seconds would be tricky to pull off since you need both to target the enemy in time and they need to attack you. The longer you wait, the more likely your enemy is to wise up. However, our spike potentially just got worst. An F3, followed by F1 would ensure that the enemy isn’t attacking us so it wouldn’t proc blurred frenzy. Therefore we need an active spike. Since this spike means that we are no longer immune to damage, someone could interrupt our big spike. However, with F3, that someone would probably have to be a team mate or the enemy would have to stun break then interrupt since they would still be held down by swap.

Thoughts?

In the name of Grenth, noooooooooooooooo! A thousand times, no!!!! I’m sure you are well intentioned but leave my beloved blurred frenzy alone!! It’s a staple of my build. Plus, it requires no adjustment whatsoever. The fact that it roots you is enough of a restriction.

I’m unclear of how anything that you proposed would have a reason to be changed. Let me unclutter your wall of text for you.

Current blurred frenzy: 2.5 second invulnerable + conal cleave, mesmer is rooted.

Your changes: 2 seconds invulnerable with the ability to proc another 2 seconds invulnerable conal cleave if hit with the ability to alternatively have <2 seconds invulnerable to get high spike damage.

What exactly about this isn’t massively overpowered?

I’m confused. Is Blurred Frenzy considered to be OP? I might agree if the warrior or guardian had it, but we mesmers are lightweights. For us to engage at point blank puts us at a huge disadvantage which offsets frenzy’s power.

Blurred Frenzy isn’t THAT OP, but it can cause you to have 25% up time invuln and with sword 3, the target is also rooted the entire time you use Blurred Frenzy, so yeah with Phants going to town on you while you’re invulnerable beating someone in the face while rooted every 8-10 seconds. It gets to be a little bit crazy.

Entropy.4732:

In the name of Grenth, noooooooooooooooo! A thousand times, no!!!! I’m sure you are well intentioned but leave my beloved blurred frenzy alone!! It’s a staple of my build. Plus, it requires no adjustment whatsoever. The fact that it roots you is enough of a restriction.

If you believe it’s fine ok. Honestly, I believe it’s fine in it’s current state. My reason for posting this comes from worry about too much crying about it and the possibility of it getting nerfed since A-net seems to listen to the complainers. Therefore, I wanted to propose an idea that doesn’t suck and also I sort of just wanted to see if we could get mesmers and complainers to agree to something. If after my 2nd post, no one likes it, I will drop the subject.

I also got 1 vote for overpowered. As for overpowered, is ranger gs 4 and the double tap overpowered? It’s 3 seconds of immune to damage if you don’t have a target.. If you riposte, its a knockback that does around 2.5k to the Chieftain in the mists. If you double tap it, its a ranged cripple for about 2k. This is on a 12 or 15 second cooldown with zerker amulet but beast masterish traits. This is on a weapon that makes you immune to damage around 1/3 the time of your auto attack, has swoop for great mobility and an interrupt. I don’t think it’s over powered but I do like the counter-counter play it has.

I tried not to propose hard numbers of what the damage should be but I did mention 2 and 2 seconds. This could maybe be toned down but I explained why the total of 4 seconds would likely not happen and if it did, it would happen against a noob that has a pretty fast auto attack sequence that kept spamming auto through the first 2 seconds then didn’t move out of the way of the blurred frenzy. If you use it as an “interrupt” to their attack instead of just spamming it, it would function exactly like the current blurred frenzy. If you want to use it purely for defense on the move, it’s a 2 second blurr that doesn’t root you. If used in a spike combo, you lose all defenses bonuses immediately since you will double tap it with your shatters and it would root you for maybe 1/2 a sec. This might even do less overall damage than the blurred frenzy but it would be a chunk instead of multiple hits. If you are trying to use it as a mix of immune to dmg then spike, you forgo the ability to swap and immoblize while rooting yourself so they can easily move out of the way. Perhaps I didn’t explain it well the first time, but I don’t think that is overpowered. It simply gives us more options and also has counter play.

Blurred frenzy its good as it is, is not a very damaging ability at all, im sure the people that hate that skill are thiefs that hate they can not backstab when blurred frenzy its on… Really the damage its no great even if you hit glass cannons like thieves backstab—— > ;heart seeker spamers.

I wouldn’t hate Blurred Frenzy if they didn’t have illusionary leap.

Blurred Frenzy does like 3k (max 4k if my opponent is gc) damage. That’s hardly more than an axe warrior’s auto-attack. What damages you is Mind Wrack which can easily be avoided.

Also, sword #3 is one of the only roots we got.

Iavra.8510:

Blurred Frenzy does like 3k (max 4k if my opponent is gc) damage. That’s hardly more than an axe warrior’s auto-attack. What damages you is Mind Wrack which can easily be avoided.

Also, sword #3 is one of the only roots we got.

sometimes I think ILeap is a design excuse to not give mesmer swiftness

ANET should not listen to qqers only, everything in the game is already balanced and countered through various build options. Most of the time it is the lack of skill and knowledge that kills one, not a trait or a skill. I wish people could try to make best out of it instead of whining all the time. I think mesmer is balanced as it now is, some kittens are trying to make it seem as if it needs an intervention, we don’t have to come up with alternatives, they have to make alternative ways and strategies to get us.

MEsmer doesn t need a nerf..
Elementalist did n t need one also.

This game will die if pvpers don t understand they are a TINY minority and they are destroying the game for 90% of players that doesn t care of their pvp balance.

Sincerely a pve player really tired of pvp eghoist

Inb4 someone saying pve is easy…..i had 2 pvpers in fractal party Yesterday we disbanded in swamp fractal

OP didn t even consider PvE and WWW they are just too focused on their little world.

What about Tomorrow devs started to apply the most deserved PvE balancing?
Like giving warrior a most deserved nerf?

Note also dev s guidelines for making PvE and pvp consistently similar.

Dont change blurred frenzy, i dont feel like explaining as ofhers already have.

LordByron.8369:

MEsmer doesn t need a nerf..
Elementalist did n t need one also.

This game will die if pvpers don t understand they are a TINY minority and they are destroying the game for 90% of players that doesn t care of their pvp balance.

Sincerely a pve player really tired of pvp eghoist

Inb4 someone saying pve is easy…..i had 2 pvpers in fractal party Yesterday we disbanded in swamp fractal

OP didn t even consider PvE and WWW they are just too focused on their little world.

What about Tomorrow devs started to apply the most deserved PvE balancing?
Like giving warrior a most deserved nerf?

Note also dev s guidelines for making PvE and pvp consistently similar.

Thats not being called an egoist. The same could be said about pve’ers trying to vhange balance so it affects pvp and wvw.
This can all be countered by a simple pve/pvp split.

Alissah.9281:

Dont change blurred frenzy, i dont feel like explaining as ofhers already have.

LordByron.8369:

MEsmer doesn t need a nerf..
Elementalist did n t need one also.

This game will die if pvpers don t understand they are a TINY minority and they are destroying the game for 90% of players that doesn t care of their pvp balance.

Sincerely a pve player really tired of pvp eghoist

Inb4 someone saying pve is easy…..i had 2 pvpers in fractal party Yesterday we disbanded in swamp fractal

OP didn t even consider PvE and WWW they are just too focused on their little world.

What about Tomorrow devs started to apply the most deserved PvE balancing?
Like giving warrior a most deserved nerf?

Note also dev s guidelines for making PvE and pvp consistently similar.

Thats not being called an egoist. The same could be said about pve’ers trying to vhange balance so it affects pvp and wvw.
This can all be countered by a simple pve/pvp split.

I think wvw and pve should be same since it is same gear/wep/environment for everyone.

I agree though, they should split pvp completely instead of “making it consistently similar” because that is a big BS lol.

Alissah.9281:

Thats not being called an egoist. The same could be said about pve’ers trying to vhange balance so it affects pvp and wvw.

10% of players have lead to a broken meta for PvE players (90%).
So actually those 10% are really egoist……

This can all be countered by a simple pve/pvp split.

That if by any means you follow pvp boards, you should know its IMPOSSIBLE.
They want to keep coherence between skills thus they touch ony damage and stuff like that.

The best part is pvp players NEVER consider how their suggestion would impact other gamemodes…..

That tells a lot.

Splitting skills over different game modes is a far too clever solution….

Ah, and splitting skills between WvW and Pve? No way, wvw is for anet the casual pvp for pvers bored, not a real deal. Sucks to be a wvwer…

LordByron.8369:

Sincerely a pve player really tired of pvp eghoist

OP didn t even consider PvE and WWW they are just too focused on their little world.

What about Tomorrow devs started to apply the most deserved PvE balancing?
Like giving warrior a most deserved nerf?

Note also dev s guidelines for making PvE and pvp consistently similar.

First off, I said I would drop the subject but the subject seems to have changed a little.

Warriors don’t need nerfs in PvE, other classes and also mobs need buffs. When you say PvE, it sounds like you also mean dungeons so you are also sorta “being and egoist” thinking that all PvE is dungeons/fractals. I also PvE about 80% of the 1.5k hours I have on my mesmer and I did try to think of all modes of play. Since A-net is accepting that they need to split skills in-between PvE and PvP, the numbers will change which is why I left them blank. However, the functionality of skills will probably be the same.

Thank you Pyro for reading my post and calling it OP. I disagree but I said I would drop this. I just don’t get how a PvE only player is saying that my proposed idea is a nerf without seeing any actual numbers when someone else is calling it OP.

If leap is really the problem… then we should nerf bull’s rush instead of 100b? This is the first time I heard someone complain about our buggy leap…

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Warriors don’t need nerfs in PvE, other classes and also mobs need buffs.

same things that saying warrior need a serious nerf ._.
Devs agrees with you…i don t get it….

When you say PvE, it sounds like you also mean dungeons so you are also sorta “being and egoist” thinking that all PvE is dungeons/fractals.

wich is the easiest PvE class?

Is mesmer strong in open pve and leveling?
How important is blurred frenzy for a lvl 30 mesmer?

This may answer your questions

Since A-net is accepting that they need to split skills in-between PvE and PvP, the numbers will change which is why I left them blank. However, the functionality of skills will probably be the same.

that is why PvE mesmer need blurred frenzy invul.

My main was an ele….did you see how they “balance” things?

You can t change the defining skills of a class so lightly.

Just fyi in PvE there is a huge difference between blocking and invulnerable.
Blocking get bypassed by so many stuff.

But most of all “if it isn t broken don t fix it!”
And its not broken.

Do you know what is broken?
PvP game modes!

P.S. iLeap and blurred frenzy are the only reliable mesmer skills that can get around unblockable stuff and defiant stacks that are so common in pve.

LordByron.8369:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Warriors don’t need nerfs in PvE, other classes and also mobs need buffs.

same things that saying warrior need a serious nerf ._.
Devs agrees with you…i don t get it….

When you say PvE, it sounds like you also mean dungeons so you are also sorta “being and egoist” thinking that all PvE is dungeons/fractals.

wich is the easiest PvE class?

Is mesmer strong in open pve and leveling?
How important is blurred frenzy for a lvl 30 mesmer?

This may answer your questions

Not the same. If mobs had weakness, healing and protection more often, this would increase the effective power of condition builds/ poison/ boon stripping/ interrupt classes in PvE. That way mesmer damage wouldn’t need to be brought up to warrior levels since we could counter these boons/conditions and do equal damage to a warrior even though the mesmer base damage would be lower.
I went glass cannon sword/sword/focus from lvl 10 on in PvE and I never had a problem anywhere. I know how important blurred frenzy is and I love it to the point that I got Bolt on my mesmer.

LordByron.8369:

that is why PvE mesmer need blurred frenzy invul.
…
Just fyi in PvE there is a huge difference between blocking and invulnerable.
Blocking get bypassed by so many stuff.

The only time I mentioned block was talking about a ranger skill and the other riposte skills. I never said blurred frenzy should not be invulnerable (blurr). Did you actually read my proposed changes?

If you believe it’s fine ok. Honestly, I believe it’s fine in it’s current state. My reason for posting this comes from worry about too much crying about it and the possibility of it getting nerfed since A-net seems to listen to the complainers. Therefore, I wanted to propose an idea that doesn’t suck!

LordByron.8369:

P.S. iLeap and blurred frenzy are the only reliable mesmer skills that can get around unblockable stuff and defiant stacks that are so common in pve.

LOL what? Neither of those deal with defiant stacks. An IP F3 is what deals with stacks of defiant. Sword 44, focus 44, gs 5 are what deals with defiant.

@DuckDuckBoom: The reason I call your changes op is simply because they are. Look at it this way.

Your change retains the original functionality of blurred frenzy. If you get hit while channeling, it turns into the normal blurred frenzy. That is unchanged.

However, it ALSO provides the ability to have a mobile 2 second invulnerability which has the potential to chain into the normal blurred frenzy.

You are effectively doubling the invulnerability uptime.

On top of that, you’re also giving a option to sacrifice invulnerability for large spike.

Blurred frenzy is already one of the best skills in the game. Your changes would double the invulnerability uptime and provide the option to turn it into massive spike. If you somehow think that people wouldn’t complain about this 3x as much, you’re completely off your rocker.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@DuckDuckBoom: The reason I call your changes op is simply because they are. Look at it this way.

Your change retains the original functionality of blurred frenzy. If you get hit while channeling, it turns into the normal blurred frenzy. That is unchanged.

However, it ALSO provides the ability to have a mobile 2 second invulnerability which has the potential to chain into the normal blurred frenzy.

You are effectively doubling the invulnerability uptime.

On top of that, you’re also giving a option to sacrifice invulnerability for large spike.

Blurred frenzy is already one of the best skills in the game. Your changes would double the invulnerability uptime and provide the option to turn it into massive spike. If you somehow think that people wouldn’t complain about this 3x as much, you’re completely off your rocker.

Disclaimer: None of this matters if the skill never gets nerfed! I don’t want it nerfed or changed. This is only a mental experiment for if Anet ever does change it and what would be a fair change.

4 Seconds would only happen with a skilled mesmer vs a noob. You also do no damage for those first 2 seconds. Example, the mesmer presses 2 and goes in the parry stance. You leave the mesmer alone for 2 seconds then no blurred frenzy happens. If the mesmer has you targeted and you spam your attacks, it will proc on your first hit so around 2.1-2.5 seconds of invulerable. The enemy can even do this with a ranged attack to waste the blurred frenzy. The mesmer needs to untarget the enemy, wait until 1.9 seconds into it and then have the enemy be dumb enough to attack the mesmer at 1.95 seconds for a 3.95 second blurr to actually happen. The back and forth between the choice of the mesmer and the choice of the enemy is why I think it’s “fair” for both sides. If the time needs to be toned down, fine. I’ve left the numbers blank otherwise so that balance can happen with raw power change. ALSO, if you channel for too long, the enemy will not be held down by swap making it easier to dodge out of.

When you shatter spike an enemy, they will be dazed by f3, held down by leap and then you need to double tap 2 to get your spike hit. Since the spike hit means no invulnerable, the enemies team can interrupt you. 1v1 the damage stays the same since the target will probably not be able to react. If they can, then you can tap it only once and wait. They will screw themselves over if they try to interrupt too early. Again, you and the enemy need to make choice and the better choice wins out.

All I’m trying to do is add a rock/paper/scissor element which gives the enemies a choice when you use this skill. I don’t want it nerfed or changed. This is only a mental experiment for if Anet ever does change it and what would be a fair change. If you think it’s too complicated and doesn’t belong in the game, I will point you to ranger GS 4 as a reference which functions in a very similar fashion.

For PvE, if you time the 2, it will act just as before. If you know you are safe and double tap, it will be an increase in DPS. Overall, a good change for PvE mesmers.

I don’t really like this…we already have blocks in Scepter #2 and Sword #4. Changing BF into another “reacting” ability, would take alot of the flow out of the shatter playstyle since you need your opponent to do something to actually do any damage. Confusion could already be easily outplayed by simply doing nothing.

Iavra.8510:

I don’t really like this…we already have blocks in Scepter #2 and Sword #4. Changing BF into another “reacting” ability, would take alot of the flow out of the shatter playstyle since you need your opponent to do something to actually do any damage. Confusion could already be easily outplayed by simply doing nothing.

Confusion doesn’t have a double tap activation for damage but the rest are fair points. What about a main hand dagger for a duelist style of combat =)

I would be fine if you were invulnerable to damage but not cc.

I agree that there needs to be a solution, but that isn’t one. Mesmer either needs to have it’s overall damage nerfed, or it’s overall survivability nerfed. I wouldn’t mind people coming up with a non-overpowered replacement, however what was suggested was beyond overpowered.

As for anyone whom says Mesmer is purely glassy and easily killed, then try going full glass Thief, or Ele and tell me how ‘glassy’ Mesmer is.

As for anyone whom says Mesmer is purely glassy and easily killed, then try going full glass Thief, or Ele and tell me how ‘glassy’ Mesmer is.

So, once again: Those mesmers aren’t glass. A full gc thief or ele does a TON more damage than a mesmer in a much shorter time.

Also, try to play full glass mesmer in, say, WvW roaming. When you meet a berserker warrior you basically have to avoid any single attack they are throwing at you or you’re dead. And don’t even try to run from or CC them, won’t happen.

Iavra.8510:

As for anyone whom says Mesmer is purely glassy and easily killed, then try going full glass Thief, or Ele and tell me how ‘glassy’ Mesmer is.

Also, try to play full glass mesmer in, say, WvW roaming. When you meet a berserker warrior you basically have to avoid any single attack they are throwing at you or you’re dead. And don’t even try to run from or CC them, won’t happen.

/agree 100 %

Jackums.3496:

The fact that some people believe a glass Mesmer is at all durable in competitive PvP situations is a testament to how they have no idea what they’re talking about.

Try your GC build in WvW. Roam for a while and see how many times you get one-shot by a Thief. See how many times you’re completely melted by a Warrior that knows how to target. See how often a D/D Ele just runs right over you with AoE and conditions.

^this very much!in wvw if you are glass, don’t even try to step out without an entire zerg on your side and even then u would probably melt in battle.step outside your spawn and “meet” glassthief=instant death.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

LOL what? Neither of those deal with defiant stacks. An IP F3 is what deals with stacks of defiant. Sword 44, focus 44, gs 5 are what deals with defiant.

i mean iLeap isn t affected by defiant. while blurred can evade lot of things (even agony).

Also i’d say that dps is the reason i quit my ele for a mesmer…..

Ele dps is horribad and unreliable at best. (also D/D ele in www is currently a joke…you won t lose and you can even escape him without much effort).

Does not need a change, period.

(also D/D ele in www is currently a joke…you won t lose and you can even escape him without much effort).

I guess Jathres and many other D/D eles playing WvW would like to differ.

Also, i never played ele, but those lightning hammer builds seem to do TONS of damage in PvE.

Just drop it already. It’s a perfectly balanced skill. Leave it alone.

Entropy.4732:

Just drop it already. It’s a perfectly balanced skill. Leave it alone.

Then I suggest they give all classes a 2 sec root+invulnerability on an 8 sec timer. I’d do even with a utility skill. I’d even trade my elite for it in a heartbeat (Ele here).

Cool story, can i have perma-“all boons + 25 might”, then?

Blurred Frenzy is fine. Why does this thread even exist?

Iavra.8510:

Cool story, can i have perma-“all boons + 25 might”, then?

Sure when you got lowest HP and 250 shatter that crits for 400 per Illusion…

Change it so Sword 3 doesn’t cripple, and leap (sword3^2) causes the cripple and leave out the root, then sure, I’d be fine with sword 2 staying how it is. Atm the combo is so brain dead.