Guild Wars 2

What sort of rework could make this into a useful skill? Post your ideas in this thread. The only sort of common theme I’d like to see is keeping the iMage as a condition phantasm. Whether this means utility conditions such as cripple and chill, or damaging conditions such as burning and torment, keep it condition based.

I think that the iMage should be kept as a bouncing attack. Currently, the bounce works with both Cleansing Conflagration and with Illusionary Elasticity, and thus provides a torch user with some interesting trait choices. Maintaining these choices is very important in my opinion. However, the iMage could certainly use some tweaks.

The biggest problem is that three stacks of confusion for 3s is very underwhelming. Even traited for an extra bounce and with condition duration, this phantasm is very weak, considering its cooldown. I would propose that the iMage keep the confusion portion of its attack, but apply either chill or burning with each attack. Both of those conditions very much fit with the theme of a classic mage. Furthermore, they both relate to the torch. Burning very overtly corresponds with the flame of the torch, while chill is essentially the opposite of a flame, and is suited to the mesmer’s very “inverse” nature (i.e. using a big sword as a sniper rifle).

I’m not sure which condition should be applied or for how long. Perhaps a random chance at burning or chill to correspond with the “random” nature of the class, though it seems awfully strange to put a damaging and a non-damaging condition in competition like that, given the phantasm’s low attack speed.

What do others think of this idea?

Edited for grammar.

I would also add Burning to the existent effect.

something like, iMage attack apply torment if moving, chill if not moving, burning if not attacking, confusion if attacking.

This is assuming the attack rate and cooldown stay the same. I think we need another AoE option, a better condition phantasm, and something that’d work if you’re not strictly a condition build..
—————
What if it created a 3 second pulsing AoE zone on its target, about the size of elementalist’s Lava Font when traited with Blasting Staff.

• Enemies standing inside of zone will recieve either 2s Burn, 4x Confusion for 3 seconds, or 1s Fear per pulse.
• Allies standing inside zone will recieve 2s Protection/Aegis/2s Retaliation
  ————
  Part of the problem with iMage is that the cooldown is so huge that you’re rarely going to be summoning more than one. I assume most phantasm damage is balanced around the idea that you’ll be summoning more than one, so while the effect may seem a bit OP initially, remember that it wont be long before the phantasm gets either destroyed of shattered in a Cry of Frustration.

Or, if we keep the bouncing effect. Add 5s of confusion with 3 stacks of torment, and an extra bounce. Add Protection to allies to mix with the retaliation.

The only thing I don’t like about that is that no weapon is pure condition damage. I think that you should be able to be interested in a weapon regardless of your gear, even scepter has use in a power build due to it being an alternate mainhand, it produces clones, and Confusing Images can hit pretty hard. The last thing I wanna do is look at the torch and say:

“Oh, well its cool thakittens buffed.. but it still is useless for my build beyond the stealth and condition damage is still sub par for Mesmer”

What ever effect bounces back to allies should be profound and meaningful.

His attack is going to bounce, and should so it can benefit from the trait so that’s not going to change. The trait for the torch is in power, so that’s probable not going to change and should be respected.

The only amulet that maximizes the ability is carrion. So tuning the power toward carrion should be avoided in order to promote more use (I.e. viability).

Confusion is fine as a condition, its thematic and should not change. If you feel the confusion condition is not useful that’s a global concern, not a torch one.

Right now I think the best change options are: keep tweaking the condition/boon duration -or- remove retaliation and add weakness.

Its too bad it probably has to be a bounce attack. If bounce attacks hit clones, we have to figure ou what boon or effect we’d like on our clones.

Retaliation on clones would be ok with signet of illusions. Its too bad that scepter clones suck.

Its highly probable that the ‘problems’ with torch5 have little to do with torch5

djtool.8372:

His attack is going to bounce, and should so it can benefit from the trait so that’s not going to change. The trait for the torch is in power, so that’s probable not going to change and should be respected.

The only amulet that maximizes the ability is carrion. So tuning the power toward carrion should be avoided in order to promote more use (I.e. viability).

Confusion is fine as a condition, its thematic and should not change. If you feel the confusion condition is not useful that’s a global concern, not a torch one.

Right now I think the best change options are: keep tweaking the condition/boon duration -or- remove retaliation and add weakness.

Its too bad it probably has to be a bounce attack. If bounce attacks hit clones, we have to figure ou what boon or effect we’d like on our clones.

Retaliation on clones would be ok with signet of illusions. Its too bad that scepter clones suck.

Its highly probable that the ‘problems’ with torch5 have little to do with torch5

I like the idea of adding weakness, but why does it have to be a bounce? Just so it can work with the trait?

I think the Mage is VERY weak, for a 30second cool down (untraited) it is PATHETIC. Nothing else can be said i mean look at iZerker, its like a 20second cool down untraited but does ALOT more damage, is more useful and on a shorter cool down and can trigger like 4-5 bleeding with sharper images.

Personally i think it needs a BIG buff:

1) Decrease The cool down to 25seconds untraited (20 traited)

2) Increase Confusion stacks to 5 stacks per a hit, Duration base 10seconds

3) Increase Retal to 5seconds

4) Make it so that it adds another 2-3 conditions – Bleeding, Burning, Poison, Torment would be nice choices

5) Increase base damage by 50%

6) increase projectile speed by 25%

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I think the Mage is VERY weak, for a 30second cool down (untraited) it is PATHETIC. Nothing else can be said i mean look at iZerker, its like a 20second cool down untraited but does ALOT more damage, is more useful and on a shorter cool down and can trigger like 4-5 bleeding with sharper images.

Personally i think it needs a BIG buff:

1) Decrease The cool down to 25seconds untraited (20 traited)

2) Increase Confusion stacks to 5 stacks per a hit, Duration base 10seconds

3) Increase Retal to 5seconds

4) Make it so that it adds another 2-3 conditions – Bleeding, Burning, Poison, Torment would be nice choices

5) Increase base damage by 50%

6) increase projectile speed by 25%

I like the idea of mage being good when he is out. All the phantasms are recognizable with zerker and duelist probably considered the most dangerous.

I like all these ideas. Definitely the base duration increase on confusion that way if you spec duration it becomes a threat if you don’t kill him.

I think that all iMage needs is a reduced cooldown and a bit of extra spunk in the confusion department. It shouldn’t be too hard really.. Just make it’s confusion last as long as confusing images, or perhaps add burning or chill! I don’t see how that would be OP, but it would make iMage something that I can keep up besides staff clones to add conditions. It would allow alot more pressure from Sc/Torch!

Both retaliation and confusion have been nerfed, making an already weak phantasm pathetic.

I think the easiest solution is to change the confusion to burning. Suddenly you have a phantasm that can keep up burning on a target half of the time. That’s huge. It also consistent with the whole “torch” thing. (If that’s too much, I would also be happy with 2 seconds of burning. That gives 33% uptime untraited, 40ish% traited)

With the condition meta, I would probably change the friendly bounce to either a condition clear or protection. 50% up time on protection would also be awesome. Removing a condition every 6 seconds would also be awesome.

Something else that could be done to make it more of a support/defense phantom rather then pure damage like the iZerker.

Targets get: Confusion, Poison and Torment
Allies Get: Retal, Protection, Regen

Keep it to a bouncing attack but make it so that it WORKS. It doesnt seem to like bouncing back to people thakittens already hit (from my tests)

It ‘has’ to be a bounce because that is the thematic method which we do aoe. I’m not saying it my personal favorite, but if you want to inflict real change then we should try to operate within their paradigms

Chaos Archangel.5071:

djtool.8372:

His attack is going to bounce, and should so it can benefit from the trait so that’s not going to change. The trait for the torch is in power, so that’s probable not going to change and should be respected.

The only amulet that maximizes the ability is carrion. So tuning the power toward carrion should be avoided in order to promote more use (I.e. viability).

Confusion is fine as a condition, its thematic and should not change. If you feel the confusion condition is not useful that’s a global concern, not a torch one.

Right now I think the best change options are: keep tweaking the condition/boon duration -or- remove retaliation and add weakness.

Its too bad it probably has to be a bounce attack. If bounce attacks hit clones, we have to figure ou what boon or effect we’d like on our clones.

Retaliation on clones would be ok with signet of illusions. Its too bad that scepter clones suck.

Its highly probable that the ‘problems’ with torch5 have little to do with torch5

I like the idea of adding weakness, but why does it have to be a bounce? Just so it can work with the trait?

After making that scepter clone comment I’ll be curious to see if there is anything noticeable with sig of illusions and sword clones. I’ll give that a shot for a few tonight.

I understand your point, but kinda disagree.

We’re not the only class that uses bounces (Staff Ele and Guardian w/focus come to mind). A bounce isn’t an AoE, its a projectile that can be aegis’d, blocked, reflected, ect. While I think we do have more bouncing moves than most classes, I don’t think that means it should be our method of hurting multiple enemies… Its simply too unreliable.

We’re sorely lacking in the AoE department. RNG seems to be part of our theme(Winds of Chaos, Chaos Storm/Armor, our Chaos Tree) and I strongly feel another RNG field like Chaos Storm would be an interesting and profound boost to our Torch without pushing it into the OP point.

-If its an ethereal field, torch can combo its blast finisher for AoE chaos armor.
-It would make torch much more viable for world events, WvW, and sPvP.
-Would allow for more strategic and creative play.
-It’d still have disadvantages, such as being succeptable to retaliation or dodgeable.

I’m not crazy about the idea of another random field applies a variety of conditions. The inability to get consistently damaging condition hurts condition specs a great deal.

Skill use every 6 seconds with a cast time of 0.75 seconds. Skill use every 4.8 seconds with Phantasmal Haste.
The skill bounces twice and cannot bounce to a target more than once.

Phantasmal Mage 6.3s 5.27s

Anyone know which one of these is correct? Both of them are from the wiki but different pages. Also the bounce never hitting a target more than once? That just seems silly and maybe old, especially given that they changed the bounce mechanics recently. Anyone tested this with the new changes?

When proposing these buffs, you need to keep the current traits in mind.
Just thinking about 20/0/0/0/30 with elasticity/haste. If the bounce can hit someone more than once, you can double both the conditions and the boons received/conditions removed.

So with the proposed buffs and the numbers it would create: 15 sec CD to summon, ~5 second rate of attack. 5 stack/10 sec base would turn into 10 (if bounce works) stacks for 20 seconds every 5 seconds. Just 1 mage would be able to maintain 25 stacks of confusion on one target. That’s just 1 of them that is also giving boons/removing conditions. Then you want more conditions on it? It definitely needs a buff, but that is too much. Also, it’s a defensive/condi phantasms so it shouldn’t do as much damage as a power phant.

What I would like to see is chaos armor on allies instead of retaliation. The randomness would add a bit more to the deception since most people expect only the main mesmer to have chaos armor instead of the clones. Every 5 seconds, a new set of clones/mesmers now have chaos armor. Would be a silly game of magical chairs. Bringing the cooldown a bit would be great. Maybe if the confusion was changed to 1 stack of torment (bounce for 2) instead so it would do consistent damage. The chaos armor will do the confusion instead.

oZii.2864:

I like the idea of mage being good when he is out. All the phantasms are recognizable with zerker and duelist probably considered the most dangerous.

I like all these ideas. Definitely the base duration increase on confusion that way if you spec duration it becomes a threat if you don’t kill him.

Yeah, 3 second base is pathetic. People can just ignore him has he is no threat what so ever in its current state. Now if Master of Misdirection was GOOD and iMage buffed just them 2 changes could make Confusion worthwhile again.

Master of Misdirection: Increase Confusion Duration by 50%
iMage: Increase Confusion base duration to 10seconds

This would mean that the iMage would HAVE to be targeted and killed rather then simply laughed at and ignored. They could even build into it that it removes Boons from targets and conditions from allies as well.

Master of Misdirection currently adds like 0.75seconds onto Confusion from iMage. which is just pathetic.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Skill use every 6 seconds with a cast time of 0.75 seconds. Skill use every 4.8 seconds with Phantasmal Haste.
The skill bounces twice and cannot bounce to a target more than once.

Phantasmal Mage 6.3s 5.27s

Anyone know which one of these is correct? Both of them are from the wiki but different pages. Also the bounce never hitting a target more than once? That just seems silly and maybe old, especially given that they changed the bounce mechanics recently. Anyone tested this with the new changes?

When proposing these buffs, you need to keep the current traits in mind.
Just thinking about 20/0/0/0/30 with elasticity/haste. If the bounce can hit someone more than once, you can double both the conditions and the boons received/conditions removed.

So with the proposed buffs and the numbers it would create: 15 sec CD to summon, ~5 second rate of attack. 5 stack/10 sec base would turn into 10 (if bounce works) stacks for 20 seconds every 5 seconds. Just 1 mage would be able to maintain 25 stacks of confusion on one target. That’s just 1 of them that is also giving boons/removing conditions. Then you want more conditions on it? It definitely needs a buff, but that is too much. Also, it’s a defensive/condi phantasms so it shouldn’t do as much damage as a power phant.

What I would like to see is chaos armor on allies instead of retaliation. The randomness would add a bit more to the deception since most people expect only the main mesmer to have chaos armor instead of the clones. Every 5 seconds, a new set of clones/mesmers now have chaos armor. Would be a silly game of magical chairs. Bringing the cooldown a bit would be great. Maybe if the confusion was changed to 1 stack of torment (bounce for 2) instead so it would do consistent damage. The chaos armor will do the confusion instead.

I have done tests and it has NEVER bounced back to a target/ally. This is a HUGE disadvantage for it in 1Vs 1 situations. It also makes IE useless with it in 1 Vs 1 situations. These tests i did were yesturday.

The cool down could be adjusted of the Mages attack to counter it, but in its current state does ANYONE actually try and kill iMage? the ONLY Phantasms i kill are iZerker and iDuelist. Mage is NO threat what so ever in its current state.

Great topic Pyro!

Since it is the torch phantasm, it seems like it should burn foes. Since it can stealth the player, perhaps when it bounces to an ally it should stealth them for 1 second…just long enough to break target. Thoughts?

I agree it needs a buff so I don’t understand the reason for the last half of your post. I think everyone agrees it still bad. Nevertheless, mesmers sometimes use the torch because torch 4 is still really good and the bonus condition removal can be nice. It’s a defensive & deceptive weapon. Turning the torch phantasms power up to 11 is not the way to go.

Mesmer duels can be up to 4 v 1. If the bounce doesn’t stack on one target, wouldn’t this be better for similar builds to the immortal mesmer? It would be 3 sec retaliation on 3 allies/illusions every 5 seconds. With a bit of boon duration, a mesmer could still run the “I hit you 7 times for every 1 time you hit me” builds. Constant retaliation to most of your illusions/you is deceptively powerful. Maybe OP (why else did they nerf Pyro’s build). I think the Devs are holding this skill back because they are scared of that being too much passive damage.

The confusion is still useless and the summon CD is still way too long. Replacing retaliation with Chaos armor would be defense/condition dmg while not being able to multiply damage with p.Defender. Changing the confusion to torment, burn or poison would also give the phantasm consistent damage that doesn’t stack with our 2 easy conditions (bleed/confusion). It won’t hit for 5k damage in 1 hit but all those small things will add up.

MacLeod.4208:

Great topic Pyro!

Since it is the torch phantasm, it seems like it should burn foes. Since it can stealth the player, perhaps when it bounces to an ally it should stealth them for 1 second…just long enough to break target. Thoughts?

An easy way to break target would be awesome but this seems like it would troll your allies/you with random reveals.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

MacLeod.4208:

Great topic Pyro!

Since it is the torch phantasm, it seems like it should burn foes. Since it can stealth the player, perhaps when it bounces to an ally it should stealth them for 1 second…just long enough to break target. Thoughts?

An easy way to break target would be awesome but this seems like it would troll your allies/you with random reveals.

Yeah, I thought about that. But with the stealth only being 1 second it would be to simply break target. It wouldn’t really matter if they were revealed, would it?

MacLeod.4208:

Great topic Pyro!

Since it is the torch phantasm, it seems like it should burn foes. Since it can stealth the player, perhaps when it bounces to an ally it should stealth them for 1 second…just long enough to break target. Thoughts?

Something tells me, as much as it would rock it would just be to powerful

The mage is intended to be the GW2 equivalent of the GW Backfire and Empathy skills, so I doubt they will change the basic function of it from confusion and retaliation, but honestly I feel it only needs a buff to its current mechanics.

For the most part it really needs a lower cooldown and faster projectile speed to make it more reliable. I’d lower the CD to 20s for sure.

After that, it could use 1 stack and 1s buffs to both confusion and retaliation and perhaps higher damage on its attack.

The other way to go is make its attack create a field around the target instead of bouncing. Perhaps an ethereal field. For every second an enemy is in the field, it earns stacks of confusion, plus whenever it uses a skill it gains another condition. Weakness, more confusion, torment, and burning are all fine with me. Allies would gain stacks of retaliation per second in the field.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

MacLeod.4208:

Great topic Pyro!

Since it is the torch phantasm, it seems like it should burn foes. Since it can stealth the player, perhaps when it bounces to an ally it should stealth them for 1 second…just long enough to break target. Thoughts?

Something tells me, as much as it would rock it would just be to powerful

I was wondering about that. But it does only attack every 6 seconds.

The problem with iMage is its inconsistent damage.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Mage

The wind up on iMage is ridiculously long – “Skill use every 6 seconds” and even then the chance that it will actually hit a moving target is pretty low.

Suggestions:
-Increase projectile speed OR change it to something like the downed-state clone where it automatically applies effects
-Increase confusion duration to 5seconds / Reduce cast-time to 5seconds
-Reduce recharge to 25seconds

Even with approximately 66% confusion duration (33% trait – 30%duration) 3 stacks of confusion will barely last 4seconds.

Either way, iMage needs a huge quality of life change. It’s been far too long that it has been overlooked and its pretty bad as a #5 phantasm.

MacLeod.4208:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

MacLeod.4208:

Great topic Pyro!

Since it is the torch phantasm, it seems like it should burn foes. Since it can stealth the player, perhaps when it bounces to an ally it should stealth them for 1 second…just long enough to break target. Thoughts?

Something tells me, as much as it would rock it would just be to powerful

I was wondering about that. But it does only attack every 6 seconds.

But it would also bounce to any of your other phantasms or allies. If it hits a thief ally mid backstab combo, that would really screw things up for him. If it hit’s a phantasm, suddenly you got constant invisible zerkers that you cant see coming. That’s too OP.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I like the idea of adding weakness, but why does it have to be a bounce? Just so it can work with the trait?

It doesn’t HAVE to be a bounce, but by being a bounce, it forces mesmers to make thoughtful choices about traits. If the iMage is revamped to be a powerful phantasm that reliably applies conditions, then I would rather mesmers be forced to make a choice; do they take the reduced CD and condition cleanse, or do they add an extra bounce for dramatically improved offensive output. By removing the bouncing effect of the attack, then virtually all condition mesmers will take 20 pts in Domination. By having two lucrative traits affecting one skill, we will see more build diversity, which is a very good thing in my opinion. Some mesmers will go for Cleansing Conflagration, some will go for Illusionary Elasticity, and some will go for both by making sacrifices elsewhere.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Skill use every 6 seconds with a cast time of 0.75 seconds. Skill use every 4.8 seconds with Phantasmal Haste.
The skill bounces twice and cannot bounce to a target more than once.

Phantasmal Mage 6.3s 5.27s

Anyone know which one of these is correct? Both of them are from the wiki but different pages. Also the bounce never hitting a target more than once? That just seems silly and maybe old, especially given that they changed the bounce mechanics recently. Anyone tested this with the new changes?

The projectile can bounce to the same target more than once. I’ve fought mesmers using the iMage, and with Illusionary Elasticity, the projectile bounced to me, then to the enemy mesmer, then back to me. As for the attack speeds, I don’t know which is correct, but the first one seems a lot more normal to me.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

MacLeod.4208:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

MacLeod.4208:

Great topic Pyro!

Since it is the torch phantasm, it seems like it should burn foes. Since it can stealth the player, perhaps when it bounces to an ally it should stealth them for 1 second…just long enough to break target. Thoughts?

Something tells me, as much as it would rock it would just be to powerful

I was wondering about that. But it does only attack every 6 seconds.

But it would also bounce to any of your other phantasms or allies. If it hits a thief ally mid backstab combo, that would really screw things up for him. If it hit’s a phantasm, suddenly you got constant invisible zerkers that you cant see coming. That’s too OP.

I can see how it would make a thief mad, that’s a good point. That pretty much breaks the idea right there. It would be fun to see it though. =)

But I don’t think that the 1 sec stealth would make anything a “constant invisible” anything. They would at most be stealthed for 1 second out of every 6. Even that might be OP, I don’t know. Thanks for your thoughts! It is fun to think about how to change things.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

MacLeod.4208:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

MacLeod.4208:

Great topic Pyro!

Since it is the torch phantasm, it seems like it should burn foes. Since it can stealth the player, perhaps when it bounces to an ally it should stealth them for 1 second…just long enough to break target. Thoughts?

Something tells me, as much as it would rock it would just be to powerful

I was wondering about that. But it does only attack every 6 seconds.

But it would also bounce to any of your other phantasms or allies. If it hits a thief ally mid backstab combo, that would really screw things up for him. If it hit’s a phantasm, suddenly you got constant invisible zerkers that you cant see coming. That’s too OP.

Maybe make it so the stealth ONLY affects the Mesmer and its clones and Phantoms, i have to admit i would love a stealth Zerker melt people and them have no idea what happened.

Anyway, as stated the iMage doesnt need a full scale change from top to bottom. It just needs what it does buffed.

1) Shorter Cool down
2) Faster Projectile speed
3) More/longer stacks of Confusion and Retal
4) Bounce more then once on someone

^ Pretty much all it needs, what would need to be decided on how much they are buffed before they become to strong. I would think something like

25 second (20traited) cool down
50% increase on projectile speed
2stack increase on Confusion with a 1second increase on base duration
50% increase on Retal base duration would be enough i think

MacLeod.4208:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

MacLeod.4208:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

MacLeod.4208:

Great topic Pyro!

Since it is the torch phantasm, it seems like it should burn foes. Since it can stealth the player, perhaps when it bounces to an ally it should stealth them for 1 second…just long enough to break target. Thoughts?

Something tells me, as much as it would rock it would just be to powerful

I was wondering about that. But it does only attack every 6 seconds.

But it would also bounce to any of your other phantasms or allies. If it hits a thief ally mid backstab combo, that would really screw things up for him. If it hit’s a phantasm, suddenly you got constant invisible zerkers that you cant see coming. That’s too OP.

I can see how it would make a thief mad, that’s a good point. That pretty much breaks the idea right there. It would be fun to see it though. =)

But I don’t think that the 1 sec stealth would make anything a “constant invisible” anything. They would at most be stealthed for 1 second out of every 6. Even that might be OP, I don’t know. Thanks for your thoughts! It is fun to think about how to change things.

Constant invisible was probably the wrong words to choose. Constant reapplication. Mesmers can be confusing to dodge/fight because they have up to 4 sources that you need to look out for. Phantasms will tend to run up to someone a bit before attacking or start whirlwinding around. Combos have specific tells to look out for. Having all those tells disappear every 6 seconds, even if it’s for only 1 second, will bring the QQ to a whole new level.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

MacLeod.4208:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

MacLeod.4208:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

MacLeod.4208:

Great topic Pyro!

Since it is the torch phantasm, it seems like it should burn foes. Since it can stealth the player, perhaps when it bounces to an ally it should stealth them for 1 second…just long enough to break target. Thoughts?

Something tells me, as much as it would rock it would just be to powerful

I was wondering about that. But it does only attack every 6 seconds.

But it would also bounce to any of your other phantasms or allies. If it hits a thief ally mid backstab combo, that would really screw things up for him. If it hit’s a phantasm, suddenly you got constant invisible zerkers that you cant see coming. That’s too OP.

I can see how it would make a thief mad, that’s a good point. That pretty much breaks the idea right there. It would be fun to see it though. =)

But I don’t think that the 1 sec stealth would make anything a “constant invisible” anything. They would at most be stealthed for 1 second out of every 6. Even that might be OP, I don’t know. Thanks for your thoughts! It is fun to think about how to change things.

Constant invisible was probably the wrong words to choose. Constant reapplication. Mesmers can be confusing to dodge/fight because they have up to 4 sources that you need to look out for. Phantasms will tend to run up to someone a bit before attacking or start whirlwinding around. Combos have specific tells to look out for. Having all those tells disappear every 6 seconds, even if it’s for only 1 second, will bring the QQ to a whole new level.

Could make it so thakittens even just 0.1seconds just so that target is dropped?

@Armageddon, I agree it doesn’t need a full scale change. I like your suggestions, they would make it a decent phantasm.

It just seems interesting to me that the torch phantasm doesn’t burn its foes. And the stealthing of allies would just be an interesting change (definitely fun to watch) while sticking to the theme of the Prestige.

What about instead of increasing the confusion time or stacks, give it a 20 or 30% chance to cause a flame blast on critical a la Sigil of Fire?

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Constant invisible was probably the wrong words to choose. Constant reapplication. Mesmers can be confusing to dodge/fight because they have up to 4 sources that you need to look out for. Phantasms will tend to run up to someone a bit before attacking or start whirlwinding around. Combos have specific tells to look out for. Having all those tells disappear every 6 seconds, even if it’s for only 1 second, will bring the QQ to a whole new level.

Fair enough. =)

Something I’ve thought about for awhile is, confusion or burning? If you had the choice between the two, which would you want the iMage to inflict? For comparison, say burning would be the same as the prestige base and confusion 5 seconds base.

Other than that – maybe replace retaliation with protection as already mentioned, lower the CD by 5 seconds and call it a day. Also the condi-clearing capabilities rival the best we have for mesmers (IF you’re taking torch in your build). This fact cannot be ignored and surely partly plays a role in it’s current long CD.

I’m also not opposed to making it a field versus bounce attack, but in a way that would affect the condition clearing ability (too much null field resemblance).

Besides either doubling how many bounces IM’s attack can do, allowing the bounces to hit previous targets or just double the speed at which IM attacks, adding a bit of utility to the guy would be nice. The condition removal is kind of a let down when you consider it’s a bounce (lots of variables there). Some individual ideas:

• Make the condition removal part an AoE around the target on 1st hit (so it will definitely remove 1 condition from allies in range and still hit someone).
• Maybe give IMage a ‘fire shield’ so if hit, it burns the target and gets might (perhaps improve HP as well)
• Give it a mage feel. Instead of walking around, it teleports to the target like those blasted wizrobes in Zelda. Upon teleportation, it blinds.
• Upon destruction, it stealths the mesmer.
• Make its attack a blast finisher :-P

PS: Another thought:

• Rebound – If it successfully removes a condition from an ally, it will keep bouncing.

skcamow.3527:

Something I’ve thought about for awhile is, confusion or burning? If you had the choice between the two, which would you want the iMage to inflict? For comparison, say burning would be the same as the prestige base and confusion 5 seconds base.

I don’t want confusion as the main attack. I don’t know if I want burning though.

If we want a lower CD, Anet inherently has to balance the skill with having 1 or 2 of these guys out. If you get to 3, your challenger is a noob anyways and deserves to lose… but 3 burning phantasms for perma burning isn’t really a guaranteed loss. What other conditions would we be tossing out there? a max of 3 bleeds on crits. That is pathetic.

What about 2 p.mages causing perma burning and 1 gs/staff clone? 1 p.mage causing perma burning and 2 gs/staff clones? 3 staff clones? 4 sec burning every 5 or 6 seconds from 1 p.mage might sound OP but I don’t think this will actually increase our condition damage and our enemies can always attack the dangerous phantasms. Keep in mind that 1 p.duelist is doing more damage just on bleeds/power than perma burning with bonus 8 confusion in a ethreal field.

Maybe that is ok though? If p.mage doesn’t stack that well then Anet can lower the CD a lot. 20 seconds (16/12 if traited) because tossing a second p.mage out is a LOSS of dmg and done ONLY for the condition removal. Balanced perma burn with a meaningful choice of summoning a second p.mage? Maybe o_O

Random idea: the p.mage bounce is a 100% projectile or leap finisher. Projectile would help it match the duelist a bit and also be a way of active confusion application or give chaos armor to allies.

The only other way I see it being buffed is the p.mage applying burning 3 sec, bleed 10 sec, or poison 5 sec with a 33% chance of each. However, you would want 2-3 of these guys out for damage and then the condition removal is too OP with the amount of damage it does for a condi bunker and we go back to a huge CD and it’s weak in the end.

Summon a Phantasm that does x% more damage for every boon on target. Inflicts confusion if target has no boons. This way the torch becomes a viable weapon for both power and condition builds.

I actually want a complete rework of iMage. He just seems completely out of place comparing to other phantasms we have on weapon skills.

See:
- iWarden uses Axe and does an attack that look like Whirling Defense (Ranger’s Axe #5)
- iDuelist uses Pistol and attacks like Thief’s Unload
- iBerserker uses Greatsword and attacks like Warrior’s Whirling Attack
- iSwordman uses Sword and attacks like Warrior’s Savage Leap
- even iWarlock throws a slow-moving orb like Guardian’s Orb of Wrath

so iMage wields a staff and does an attack with bouncing projectile that grants retaliation and inflict Confusion. Nothing to do with him being a mage or fiery theme related to torch whatsoever.

So my take on iMage is that his attack is an slow-moving fireball that explodes on hit, burst dmg scaled with power, the fireball also set allies on fire on its path and allies on fire will inflict burning if they get hit by enemies.
so this skill will cater for both power-based and condition builds.

Inspired by keenlam what if the iMage cast a flame burst (Elementalist Fire Staff #3)?

Make it transfer a condition from the mesmer to an enemy on offensive bounce, and make it transfer a boon from an enemy to the targeted player on a friendly bounce; double the current damage; reduce cooldown to 25s base; change recast time to 6 seconds.

It would be cool if the first hit was a blast finisher and smoke field (but it doesnt combo with itself). The torch phantasm sill would have stealth potential without being overpowered or randomly annoying allies : D.

Create a phantasm that shoots an explosive orb akittens target, which creates a confusing field and then bounces for confusion to foes and retaliation to allies.

Cooldown: 25

• First hit triggers direct damage 3 times (3.0 total damage mult). It triggers 3 times so it has more chance to proc sharper images ^__^
• the other hits from normal bounces trigger 2 times at a damage mult of 0.75 (1.5 in total)
• Each time the projectile hits something, projectile velocity is increased by 25%. This is because the first hit is the most dangerous, and should be telegraphed for PvP.
• The first hit/explosion makes a smoke field, which pulses 7s confusion (1 stack)(no direct damage), lingers for 7 seconds. (Assuming attack speed is 6s)
• On creation of the smoke field, foes are 3s blinded and 2s burning, a blast finisher also triggers (but not with itself).
• The projectile bounces, makes small explosions with a 150 radius, 3 stacks confusion 5s duration, 5s retaliation.
• If an enemy is hit by the projectile theyre also blinded for 1s (but not enemies in the aoe zone).
• The bounce prioritizes enemies
• if the projectile fails to hit anything, an explosion will occur as if it hit something, but the projectile also dissapears. (After the orb exceeded maximum range or collides with the world)

edit: the orb would look like that lava ball from underwater fire elementalists : D. When it explodes and bounces away, the smoke field that’s left is a purple mist that looks like the #2, boil.
After the smoke field creation, it gets the graphics of out current projectile, but a bigger version. It shrinks with every hit : D.
Maybe the smaller explosions can have a lingering graphic aswell? It wouldnt change gameplay but it would look pretty awesome!

TooBz.3065:

Inspired by keenlam what if the iMage cast a flame burst (Elementalist Fire Staff #3)?

How about, rather then it cast flame burst, it casts a confusion based attack – Like it fires a purple flame like projectile and it hits the target causing 5 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds and it then explodes into purple butterflies with a radius of 180.

Allies hit with the “blast” would be given Retaliation as well as shield kind of like Chaos Armor that lasts for 2.5seconds and inflicts 2 stacks of confusion for 5seconds to anyone both range and melee that attack them with no ICD. Enemies that are hit in the radius are inflicted with 5stacks of confusion for 2.5seconds

I understand why some people want to keep the bounce. However, there still are enough skills which can benefit from illusionairy elasticity if the iMage got changed. I would like to see each phantasm to be something special. Right now, the iMage resembles the staff clones way too much in its mechanic.

What I would enjoy:

iMage
- Casts purple homing orb (e.g. Guard Staff#2)
- Orb explodes on hit (area effect), deals moderate damage, applies 3-5 stacks of confusion
- Leaves behind purple flaming field for 3s (light, etheral or fire)
- Field inflicts 1s burn per second to enemies
- Field applies 2s retaliation per second to allies

I am not sure about the amount of confusion stacks which should be applied since it is an area effect. Single target 3 stacks like it is now definitely isn’t enough. The area effect would complement the rather single targeted scepter as a condition source. The field adds to the iMage uniqueness among the phantasms and clones. I would prefer a light field (condition removal and retaliation through combos) but fire would also be interesting. The 1s burn will help condition builds but would not be overpowered since enemies can leave the area after the explosion.

I would not like a blast finisher on the iMage. I would rather see the blast on prestige be improved because it is very ineffective right now.

The absolute best i would like iMage to be (especially if it stays with the longest phantasm CD) is make it aoe. Make it so its attack explodes on impact damaging up to 5 foes and set them on fire for 1-2sec. I want something cool and useful like that, i don’t want confusion… So remove the reta given, give it a 25sec CD, aoe explosion with moderate damage (something like iMariner’s damage) and set foes on fire for 2sec. Decrease Prestige CD to 20sec, decrease its stealth to 2sec/its burning to 2sec and and we have an amazing offhand weapon useful for pvp AND pve

keenlam.4753:

I actually want a complete rework of iMage. He just seems completely out of place comparing to other phantasms we have on weapon skills.

See:
- iWarden uses Axe and does an attack that look like Whirling Defense (Ranger’s Axe #5)
- iDuelist uses Pistol and attacks like Thief’s Unload
- iBerserker uses Greatsword and attacks like Warrior’s Whirling Attack
- iSwordman uses Sword and attacks like Warrior’s Savage Leap
- even iWarlock throws a slow-moving orb like Guardian’s Orb of Wrath

so iMage wields a staff and does an attack with bouncing projectile that grants retaliation and inflict Confusion. Nothing to do with him being a mage or fiery theme related to torch whatsoever.

So my take on iMage is that his attack is an slow-moving fireball that explodes on hit, burst dmg scaled with power, the fireball also set allies on fire on its path and allies on fire will inflict burning if they get hit by enemies.
so this skill will cater for both power-based and condition builds.

Nuka Cola.8520:

The absolute best i would like iMage to be (especially if it stays with the longest phantasm CD) is make it aoe. Make it so its attack explodes on impact damaging up to 5 foes and set them on fire for 1-2sec. I want something cool and useful like that, i don’t want confusion… So remove the reta given, give it a 25sec CD, aoe explosion with moderate damage (something like iMariner’s damage) and set foes on fire for 2sec. Decrease Prestige CD to 20sec, decrease its stealth to 2sec/its burning to 2sec and and we have an amazing offhand weapon useful for pvp AND pve

Xaylin.1860:

I understand why some people want to keep the bounce. However, there still are enough skills which can benefit from illusionairy elasticity if the iMage got changed. I would like to see each phantasm to be something special. Right now, the iMage resembles the staff clones way too much in its mechanic.

What I would enjoy:

iMage
- Casts purple homing orb (e.g. Guard Staff#2)
- Orb explodes on hit (area effect), deals moderate damage, applies 3-5 stacks of confusion
- Leaves behind purple flaming field for 3s (light, etheral or fire)
- Field inflicts 1s burn per second to enemies
- Field applies 2s retaliation per second to allies

I am not sure about the amount of confusion stacks which should be applied since it is an area effect. Single target 3 stacks like it is now definitely isn’t enough. The area effect would complement the rather single targeted scepter as a condition source. The field adds to the iMage uniqueness among the phantasms and clones. I would prefer a light field (condition removal and retaliation through combos) but fire would also be interesting. The 1s burn will help condition builds but would not be overpowered since enemies can leave the area after the explosion.

I would not like a blast finisher on the iMage. I would rather see the blast on prestige be improved because it is very ineffective right now.

So much this! May I have a mage thats actually a mage plz?