Guild Wars 2

Fix fix fix thread fix

StickerHappy.8052:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Added another vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b9B25BWLd8&feature=youtu.be

First fight was bunkering a bunker guard on far (00:10), holding it from capping. I jump off eventually to heal/mantra up and to place a iDuelist out of his reach (guard was smart and took notice of the phants), the Guard would have eventually been burnt down but a ranger came in (1:35). Fight quickly turned into a 3v2 at that point.

After that it was a quick trip to mid to put that fight to rest (2:40) before a return to far for a final team battle 3:03. Landslide into Lord after that.

Why are we not doing this good when we que!?

You bring to much Ranger to the team :p

Actually I’ve been doing increasingly better as I run the build, and learn to pvp better. I’m up 14 wins atm

My bad, should have elaborated.

I didn’t say that this build has no role. I meant that it is harder for this build to find a place in a team fight setting, moreso due to the single-target nature of the weapons.

This is from my experience, and compared to standard shatter/lockdown (which while to us here on the Mes forums CI is “standard” its still largely obscure compared to PU and Shatter) GS/Staff/Focus and even sword all contribute to team fights with more than just damage.

Staff – Ethereal field, aoe boons/condis
GS – Boonstrip, aoe knock back, heavy aoe damage
Focus – aoe pull, boons/conditions

A shatter build is unparalleled at AoE damage ( for mesmers, at least. Btw ever tried shatter with moPain? Fun times) and boon stripping, a CI build can often nail multiple immobilizes. Here,
all that stuff is traded off for mostly single-target lockdown/damage. Your shatters strip boons but phantasms are a higher focus. Its almost sorta like playing a thief but with more oppression and less mobility.

And despite that I’m not saying the build doesn’t have a role teamfights, but the things you’d usually expect from a Mesmer aren’t present and so your approach to big fights requires a bit more thought

Nice post, Chaos. My assassin’s phantasm build is similar to this minus the iSwordsman (traited pistol and GS instead). Basically, you do a lot more kiting while letting your phantasms/clones do their job since they have the range to do so. You only go it for the burst of a frenzy if you know you can pull it off.

Yes, single-target dmg is awesome in builds like this, and the way you described it in comparison to a thief is spot on.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

My bad, should have elaborated.

I didn’t say that this build has no role. I meant that it is harder for this build to find a place in a team fight setting, moreso due to the single-target nature of the weapons.

This is from my experience, and compared to standard shatter/lockdown (which while to us here on the Mes forums CI is “standard” its still largely obscure compared to PU and Shatter) GS/Staff/Focus and even sword all contribute to team fights with more than just damage.

Staff – Ethereal field, aoe boons/condis
GS – Boonstrip, aoe knock back, heavy aoe damage
Focus – aoe pull, boons/conditions

A shatter build is unparalleled at AoE damage ( for mesmers, at least. Btw ever tried shatter with moPain? Fun times) and boon stripping, a CI build can often nail multiple immobilizes. Here,
all that stuff is traded off for mostly single-target lockdown/damage. Your shatters strip boons but phantasms are a higher focus. Its almost sorta like playing a thief but with more oppression and less mobility.

And despite that I’m not saying the build doesn’t have a role teamfights, but the things you’d usually expect from a Mesmer aren’t present and so your approach to big fights requires a bit more thought

So this is true. I think this build, while a stun/lockdown build, is a new/different build all together. As I said elsewhere the role is more thief than not, trading off traditional Mesmer cliques. You forgo portal (an obvious one), and give up that aoe shatter boon strip. The AoE damage of a typical mes is scary to enemy teams, thus why the enemy thief is standing by like Pac Man ready to send the Mesmer home.

While the AoE CC isn’t as encompassing as a standard CI setup with a staff and focus, the single target aspect of this build is still strong in a team fight for two reasons. The first is that you can split your focus. You can apply DPS pressure (preferably to squishies) by way of phantasms, then let them do their job. Then you can turn your attention to other priority targets for the purpose of peeling, stomp/res control, or locking down so that others can land their big hits. It’s still a single target focus effort, and you won’t be unaccustomed to it in your CI setup. Only the difference is the second point, the traited MH/OH setup gives me a lot more of these more often. Chaos Storm is a powerful tool in the right hands and at the right moment, but like portal its use is gated to its long CD. So there’s a definite give and take in comparing these builds, and the points of their strengths.

It takes a lot of combat awareness. Upon entering a big group fight I might stop and tab through all the targets to try and kitten the battlefield, but once engaged I’m keeping a constant eye across the field to best single out targets to help the team. One thing I know is that I’ve always got something up my sleeve to throw into the mix to try and turn things around, and a 1s stun here and there has huge repercussions for an enemy team.

I actually think the build is really good at shutting down a cele ele after they pop their stability. If you hide/kite well enough in a team fight like a 3v3, it’s really possible to lock those suckers down. Running without a boonstrip is a pain, but waiting out the stab is easy enough. Plus, you have a blind and an immobilize to harass through stability anyway. I posted this before, but with 66020 you get more longevity out of Mantra of Recovery and MoD. And with Runes of the Mesmer and Paralyzation sigils, that’s a lot of daze/stun duration.

I feel like CS is more like a dance, and CI is more like a throwdown. Both are really different. So, far, CS can turn the tide of a fight against a thief much quicker. I’ve heard you can interrupt the sword-2 chain, but if you miss, there goes the immobilize you landed from CI. It’s pretty fun watching a thief blow up: halting strike → swordsman leap → sword 3 swap into blurred — all with a duelist in the background. It’s a thing of beauty.

@Ross: Two small things from the vid you posted. Be more patient with guards like that. It seemed like you were trying to get off as much burst as possible right at the beginning. And when you were after the necro, you can sword swap up to him, instead of blinking to the higher terrain. It’d save the CD and immobilize him (so he could eat it from the duelist).

Tealots.6095:

I actually think the build is really good at shutting down a cele ele after they pop their stability. If you hide/kite well enough in a team fight like a 3v3, it’s really possible to lock those suckers down. Running without a boonstrip is a pain, but waiting out the stab is easy enough. Plus, you have a blind and an immobilize to harass through stability anyway. I posted this before, but with 66020 you get more longevity out of Mantra of Recovery and MoD. And with Runes of the Mesmer and Paralyzation sigils, that’s a lot of daze/stun duration.

I feel like CS is more like a dance, and CI is more like a throwdown. Both are really different. So, far, CS can turn the tide of a fight against a thief much quicker. I’ve heard you can interrupt the sword-2 chain, but if you miss, there goes the immobilize you landed from CI. It’s pretty fun watching a thief blow up: halting strike -> swordsman leap -> sword 3 swap into blurred — all with a duelist in the background. It’s a thing of beauty.

@Ross: Two small things from the vid you posted. Be more patient with guards like that. It seemed like you were trying to get off as much burst as possible right at the beginning. And when you were after the necro, you can sword swap up to him, instead of blinking to the higher terrain. It’d save the CD and immobilize him (so he could eat it from the duelist).

Yeah, Guard is the one class I’ve never made and I don’t understand all of their blue blinking lights yet. I learnt a lot from that fight though because, obviously, I was throwing things at him that weren’t landing. I was also apprehensive at the start because I didn’t realize he was a bunker guard, and nine times out of ten its one of those heavy hitting burst guards flying at me. It took me a while to realize the pace the fight would take and by that stage I’d made a ton of what can only be described as newbie errors :p

As for the sword teleport, it occurred to me a while ago that I could do that on the silent storm but that thinking hasn’t transferred over to other maps. So now you’ve got me thinking about when and where I can get an iLeap teleport up to a high ledge in the future throughout all the maps. Good times.

ooooooooooooo. vets talkin! dayaaaammm!

1st plan ross: Get a burger.

PS: I wanna see a tealot vs ross duel someday!

StickerHappy.8052:

ooooooooooooo. vets talkin! dayaaaammm!

1st plan ross: Get a burger.

PS: I wanna see a tealot vs ross duel someday!

We had about 6 or 7 the other day. As I told the guys I’ve not run into interupt mesmers in pvp (because there are none) so had zero experience fighting them. I won 1 of those duels. But I also learnt a lot. ;P

Duels are a lot different than a match though for obvious reasons.

P.S. Turns out I didnt record that epic save of you, so no upload this time :/

I just checked the video Chaos posted on youtube with Ross. And it proved my feeling when I was running that set up: away too squishy.

Although Chaos did lose 2-3 games, I think that could have been avoided if he had been more carefull and used all his resources. For example he went down for not healing at all in one fight or for not using decoy or MI.

The build is scary in its burst, but I see it suffering a lot from blinds and a minimal mistake can lead to defet. A quick one too. Also, it is strickltly a 1v1 build. Any AOE killing the duelist (although it can be cast from afar on a safe spot) will halve its damaging potentials for the swordman will undoubtly die before reaching the target or manage only one hit. Moreover a BF on a reta guardian, or burning from an ele/med guardian can really drain the very low health pool too quickly.

In my opinion, succesfully winning ranked games does not make the build any more viable. I myself found kicking butts for quite few games in a row and than had to rethink the build because versus some professions it was like hitting a brikwall.

It can work, but the same can be said for many other builds which are one sided. Until you face everything else that can easily counter you.

Wat? O.o those weren’t supposed to be public just yet.

Edit: Videos are now public!

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Wat? O.o those weren’t supposed to be public just yet.

ops…

Haha, they are.

@Trooper, I think seeing that from Chaos’s perspective, it’s hard to consider how glassy HE was. Swordsmen were hitting him regularly for over 5,000. I count him going down more than 2-3 times, too, I believe.

I think the big difference was that Chaos was running Shatterlock. He has CS and IP. So, while 6 points in dueling, in Ross’s build, add a ton of ferocity, IP in Chaos’s build add an extra CC with f3, on-demand defense with f4, and another source of damage with f1.

Ross needs to micromanage his defenses, but Chaos needs to manage his clone production (he’s not running DE). Both builds are really high risk, high reward. Probably the highest out of any of the lockdown builds.

Heh, I don’t think it’s a problem. I wanted to wait because Ross and I both recorded the videos from opposite perspectives.

The thing with Ross’s build in these vids (Assuming you saw Vid 4) is that I made it extremely difficult for him to lock me down. He couldn’t properly get off the usual chainstun from pistol/mantra/sword that would’ve allowed his phantasms to eat me alive. That really stunted his effectiveness, as I was still able to smack him down with interrupts and shatters (btw, Shatterlock is unspeakably fun. Totally forgot how great it feels to run)

His build works best mid-range. Kiting like a phantasm build but landing clutch stuns/interrupts to keep the opponent on the defense. I’ve run his build before, so I knew how to steal that momentum from him, but as the videos show all it takes is one mistake for things to go downhill for me. (Though I maintain that Ross should’ve still been shattering more. =P)

This build will rip up most glassier opponents, and anything that’s not a tank or … engineer or elementalist will have a hell of a time winning 1v1 against it. The phantasms hit hard enough that he can afford to divide his attention and engage multiple targets.. but in a thiefy kind of way in that he can’t afford to be noticed before he engages. If he manages to strike without being seen first that initial rush does monstrous damage and sets the battle in his favor, all the while he can be spending stuns/dazes on helping his allies.

I’m a bit behind on looking at uploading my end.

There are two things I’d like to add here, not for the sake of my pride, but so an accurate perspective can be obtained when looking at this build in these duels.

1) Player experience. Fact is Chaos is more experienced than me in three important ways.

• I’ve got two years of Mesmer under my belt, but it’s all been in WvW. PvP is a different ball game, it just is, and essentially I’m playing on Chaos’s home terf at the moment.
• Chaos has had a ton of hours spent playing interrupt builds vs other (he argues the best) interrupt player/build. Rupt Mesmers are so rare, I’m lucky to have encountered a handful in my two years. So I’ve been at a huge experience disadvantage here. This includes trying to find ways to adapt my build to the unique challenges posed by this particular matchup. In every single fight with Chaos yesterday I was approaching asking myself “What am I going to try this time?” Followed closely by “Well that didn’t work.”
• Finally build. Chaos has a number of tools at his disposal that extend the difficulty of my overcoming him than he me. namely IP and Staff 2. Think of it as though we’re in a race and the wall I have to climb is twenty feet higher, or we’re jumping hurdles and there’s six more for me to jump than Chaos. That’s what it feels like. If course anything goes in this race so if I can find a way to kick him on the way up and he falls and dies, then go me.

Duels are different than team conquest which is the other point. This build isnt designed for duels. If I wanted to win duels I’d of brought Icy. Ideally I’d be engaging Chaos in Conquest. I’d rotate away from 1v1’s with him, wait till he were engaged and unaware, then unload on him when his back were turned. But I digress.

The last thing I want to address is the question of squishiness. 15000hp, 18000hp, it doesnt matter nor would have made much difference in these fights. In any ranked match the only things I’m really fearing are thieves and other mesmers (shatter) catching me by surprise. The equation of these fights is really simple. Whoever gets the upper hand on the other is going to win. 3000hp won’t save me if that’s the case. It may extend the fight an extra hit, otherwise If I’m caught I’m down. In that regard an all in offense is my best defense and I can play that to my favor since I know my enemy, seeing a mesmer, is already underestimating me.

Ross Biddle.2367:

I’m a bit behind on looking at uploading my end.

There are two things I’d like to add here, not for the sake of my pride, but so an accurate perspective can be obtained when looking at this build in these duels.

1) Player experience. Fact is Chaos is more experienced than me in three important ways.

• I’ve got two years of Mesmer under my belt, but it’s all been in WvW. PvP is a different ball game, it just is, and essentially I’m playing on Chaos’s home terf at the moment.
• Chaos has had a ton of hours spent playing interrupt builds vs other (he argues the best) interrupt player/build. Rupt Mesmers are so rare, I’m lucky to have encountered a handful in my two years. So I’ve been at a huge experience disadvantage here. This includes trying to find ways to adapt my build to the unique challenges posed by this particular matchup. In every single fight with Chaos yesterday I was approaching asking myself “What am I going to try this time?” Followed closely by “Well that didn’t work.”
• Finally build. Chaos has a number of tools at his disposal that extend the difficulty of my overcoming him than he me. namely IP and Staff 2. Think of it as though we’re in a race and the wall I have to climb is twenty feet higher, or we’re jumping hurdles and there’s six more for me to jump than Chaos. That’s what it feels like. If course anything goes in this race so if I can find a way to kick him on the way up and he falls and dies, then go me.

Duels are different than team conquest which is the other point. This build isnt designed for duels. If I wanted to win duels I’d of brought Icy. Ideally I’d be engaging Chaos in Conquest. I’d rotate away from 1v1’s with him, wait till he were engaged and unaware, then unload on him when his back were turned. But I digress.

The last thing I want to address is the question of squishiness. 15000hp, 18000hp, it doesnt matter nor would have made much difference in these fights. In any ranked match the only things I’m really fearing are thieves and other mesmers (shatter) catching me by surprise. The equation of these fights is really simple. Whoever gets the upper hand on the other is going to win. 3000hp won’t save me if that’s the case. It may extend the fight an extra hit, otherwise If I’m caught I’m down. In that regard an all in offense is my best defense and I can play that to my favor since I know my enemy, seeing a mesmer, is already underestimating me.

You forgot the most important thing, interrupt builds directly counter your build. Since you are phantasm type, every summon you make is a free interrupt. The match couldve ended sooner

But amidst all this you still did great, and no DE.

For chaos, he burns his rupts too soon, wasting an mod and sword 4 at the same time. You need to play more chaos.

@Ross

If you need more practice against an interrupt mesmer, we could always duel.

StickerHappy.8052:

Ross Biddle.2367:

I’m a bit behind on looking at uploading my end.

There are two things I’d like to add here, not for the sake of my pride, but so an accurate perspective can be obtained when looking at this build in these duels.

1) Player experience. Fact is Chaos is more experienced than me in three important ways.

• I’ve got two years of Mesmer under my belt, but it’s all been in WvW. PvP is a different ball game, it just is, and essentially I’m playing on Chaos’s home terf at the moment.
• Chaos has had a ton of hours spent playing interrupt builds vs other (he argues the best) interrupt player/build. Rupt Mesmers are so rare, I’m lucky to have encountered a handful in my two years. So I’ve been at a huge experience disadvantage here. This includes trying to find ways to adapt my build to the unique challenges posed by this particular matchup. In every single fight with Chaos yesterday I was approaching asking myself “What am I going to try this time?” Followed closely by “Well that didn’t work.”
• Finally build. Chaos has a number of tools at his disposal that extend the difficulty of my overcoming him than he me. namely IP and Staff 2. Think of it as though we’re in a race and the wall I have to climb is twenty feet higher, or we’re jumping hurdles and there’s six more for me to jump than Chaos. That’s what it feels like. If course anything goes in this race so if I can find a way to kick him on the way up and he falls and dies, then go me.

Duels are different than team conquest which is the other point. This build isnt designed for duels. If I wanted to win duels I’d of brought Icy. Ideally I’d be engaging Chaos in Conquest. I’d rotate away from 1v1’s with him, wait till he were engaged and unaware, then unload on him when his back were turned. But I digress.

The last thing I want to address is the question of squishiness. 15000hp, 18000hp, it doesnt matter nor would have made much difference in these fights. In any ranked match the only things I’m really fearing are thieves and other mesmers (shatter) catching me by surprise. The equation of these fights is really simple. Whoever gets the upper hand on the other is going to win. 3000hp won’t save me if that’s the case. It may extend the fight an extra hit, otherwise If I’m caught I’m down. In that regard an all in offense is my best defense and I can play that to my favor since I know my enemy, seeing a mesmer, is already underestimating me.

You forgot the most important thing, interrupt builds directly counter your build. Since you are phantasm type, every summon you make is a free interrupt. The match couldve ended sooner

But amidst all this you still did great, and no DE.

For chaos, he burns his rupts too soon, wasting an mod and sword 4 at the same time. You need to play more chaos.

@Ross

If you need more practice against an interrupt mesmer, we could always duel.

I’m on holiday atm which is why I’ve been seen around so much. But logging on in the middle of the day for me has its drawbacks. Obviously I can’t play with the kids around but even if I do my attention is strained. My mind doesn’t truly become free and switched on until you guys are gone for the night. I only dueled Chaos yesterday because I was feeling a little turned on (oh yeah). It’s probably why so many of our matches didnt go great as I wasnt “on fi-A!” :p

StickerHappy.8052:

For chaos, he burns his rupts too soon, wasting an mod and sword 4 at the same time. You need to play more chaos.

Sometimes I did that to bait/proc his counter and then interrupt it.

But lawd. Double-traited sword counter is so spammable! Sometimes… sometimes you just can’t help.

Ross Biddle.2367:

The last thing I want to address is the question of squishiness. 15000hp, 18000hp, it doesnt matter nor would have made much difference in these fights. In any ranked match the only things I’m really fearing are thieves and other mesmers (shatter) catching me by surprise. The equation of these fights is really simple. Whoever gets the upper hand on the other is going to win. 3000hp won’t save me if that’s the case. It may extend the fight an extra hit, otherwise If I’m caught I’m down. In that regard an all in offense is my best defense and I can play that to my favor since I know my enemy, seeing a mesmer, is already underestimating me.

So I wanted to flesh this out more by uploading a vid of what I’m talking about. In the case of the vid I use a thief opponent I faced over the course of a match. The match in question was a bit of a mess but there were some good things to draw from it. The clip is just the engagements with the thief, and I’ve added notations before each engagement. On the topic of hp, I feel that most classes along with the AoE issue is easy to avoid if you’re keeping mindful in your play. If you’re not being mindful it’s already over for you regardless if you have a little or a lot of hp. So long as you can accurately read your surroundings you can get away with anything. When you don’t, such as when a thief is waiting in the wings, it no longer matters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1Snhq7FkT0&feature=youtu.be

F That Ross. Lmao.

Great video.

@Chaos I will say you really burn through your mantra charges lol. I always save at least one for an important ability/heal and I use my first charge as a freebie basically, but man you just go full on yolo.

@Ross If you wanna fight interrupt mesmers you can always fight me

It depends on who/what I’m fighting. I don’t do that vs you. =P

Chaos Archangel.5071:

It depends on who/what I’m fighting. I don’t do that vs you. =P

On our duels last night you burned both of your charges before I even used one of mine lol. I always had 1 more charge then you did the entire fight since you are so easy to mantra bait

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

It depends on who/what I’m fighting. I don’t do that vs you. =P

On our duels last night you burned both of your charges before I even used one of mine lol. I always had 1 more charge then you did the entire fight since you are so easy to mantra bait

I heard a dirty rumor that I just started that Rylock mantrabaits on his computer all day long…

Tealots.6095:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

It depends on who/what I’m fighting. I don’t do that vs you. =P

On our duels last night you burned both of your charges before I even used one of mine lol. I always had 1 more charge then you did the entire fight since you are so easy to mantra bait

I heard a dirty rumor that I just started that Rylock mantrabaits on his computer all day long…

Idk what else to call it >.<. I just stand there and chaos always burns a mantra charge on me doing nothing in a (Futile) attempt to get a good start against me. Cant blame him though, hes desperate to kill me. Also rumor squashed, I only get on gw2 2-3 nights a week for an hour or so lol. I am so busy with life right now with school just starting again

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

@Chaos I will say you really burn through your mantra charges lol. I always save at least one for an important ability/heal and I use my first charge as a freebie basically, but man you just go full on yolo.

@Ross If you wanna fight interrupt mesmers you can always fight me

You’d “interrupt” your busy life just to fight me? Of course you would.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

@Chaos I will say you really burn through your mantra charges lol. I always save at least one for an important ability/heal and I use my first charge as a freebie basically, but man you just go full on yolo.

@Ross If you wanna fight interrupt mesmers you can always fight me

You’d “interrupt” your busy life just to fight me? Of course you would.

It might be a “Chaotic Interruption” in my busy life to fight you, but it would prove very bountiful to do so

I must say the build is crazy for the damage output it can dish. However, and since you are more experienced than me with this build, I have few questions.

Which profession do you find that hard counter it?

How do you deal with a LB ranger? For example, you are approaching a guarded point by a LB ranger. He sees you and start shooting from far away. By the time I get to contest the point I alread spent at least either decoy or blink and in the worst scenario, both utilities. In this case I most likely will die. What’s your tactic?

2 points in chaos for traited manipulation are ok. But wouldn’t it be more helpful to have mender’s purity? I mean, 100 thougness is barely noticeable, let alone the minor trait that goes with it. What do you say?

wvw. I love traited blink. What do you think is more important between traited sword and phant fury if I cannot live without it?

GS. Why do you think GS isn’t viable in this build? Is it only a personal taste or there is a true reason behind? I was thinking about replacing sc/pistol.

Thanks

Which profession?
I had to spend a bit of time thinking about this. There was no obvious, clear profession that I’ve been having trouble with. Certainly none that I’d call hard counter. However I have a vague memory early on and I think I came across a Fresh Air ele. You don’t commonly see them so I don’t think Ive had a enough practice to confirm just how “hard” their counter is. But the insta multi skill burst of high damage attacks is enough to destroy the full glass build here. You’d have to approach the situation right, otherwise you’ll be down in an instant (say, choosing a block instead of a BF, or initiating with decoy out of the gate). So yeah, it’s not to confirm Fresh Air is a hard counter, but they might be the best thing to it. Honestly, I’ve not been hard countered by anything. However..

Most Dangerous Matchups?

• Medi Guard. I think it’s the one called Medi Guard, either way they have a GS, that nasty teleport, and dish a but ton of melee ranged aoe damage to the face. It’s not that it’s not avoidable, or that they’re not defeatable. But the means and rate by which they dish their attacks makes them dangerous.

• A decent Power Necro busting out his Litch Form clutch. Typically it doesnt matter the necro, they’ll go down. It’s just that it’s always a case of “eventually” as, with their multiple HP pools they can drag out the fight. In a worst case scenario that Litch Form (maybe after knocking you around for a bit) is going to drop 9.5k AA’s on you. So unless you can get out of the way before two hit you, you’re screwed.

• Condi Bomb Necro, with Condi Bomb thief a little along from it. It doesn’t really matter, the fact is in this build you’ve got to avoid being condi bombed. Essentialy If I find myself suddenly with a full bar of condi’s I’m pulling off. If I can escape, I might survive. If not I’m done for. Thing is, in these matchups it’s a matter of them being able to hit me. So as long as I stay one step ahead of the game it’s not a done deal for them.

• Only other thing that comes to mind is the odd, occasional, rare condi guardian. These guys will stack 25 minutes worth of burning on me. Ok, it’s not that bad, oh wait, I’m starting to get low on health and this burning isn’t ending for another two weeks. Erm… GG. This is the only, and I mean ONLY occasion where I’ve wanted for a condi cleanse.

As for LB rangers. If I see a LB ranger approaching I’ll do one of two things. Decoy so he opens on a false target, and do my summons from stealth. At that point he’s on the back foot. Otherwise I’ll double dodge roll out his rapid fire.
In the case of approaching a LB ranger on point from out in the open, use your mass invis. What you want to do is get within 1200 range so you can start your phantasm summons. This is easy to do considering most LB rangers have 1200 range themselves, and even if they had 1500, your mass invis will let you in range. But whatever, you don’t even need MI. Double dodge roll his rapid fire. Madness you say? You’ll be all out of dodges? So what. You still have decoy, blink, MoD, a stun/daze on each hand, BF, a short range teleport to imob, the advantage of kiting, and sound pressure while LoS’ing.

Here’s the thing about assaulting a point. The enemy already holds the point. You don’t. There is absolutely no pressure for you to stand on the point. There is every ounce of pressure remaining on the point owner to remain on point. This puts the LB ranger (or whoever) at a huge disadvantage. Assuming you get past his initial (and only) attack, you’re free to start applying your own pressure from range, and he has to take it. Your phantasms will move into position, you’ll get out of the way. If he retreats from the point you’ll hop on and play “bunker the ranger” with your assortment of defenses. If he returns to the point (which he must if he wants to hold it) you’ll withdraw to continue your passive assault. Wait out his defences (damage mitigation and any stabos) then further your interrupt assault. It’s GG for him at that point.

Recently I’ve been changing the manip CD for condi’s on clone death, mostly for the weakness. It’s just a bit more soft CC that’s making use of those clones I summon that otherwise do nothing. I’ve got to a point where I don’t feel I need that blink as much, though I’m less inclined to use it for mobility right before engaging a battle than I once was. Anyway, menders purity? I’ll get a 2 condi cleanse every 20s with the heal I’m running. I have a 15k HP pool. I don’t know, is it really worth it? Maybe if I was running into a lot of condi, 25 min stacking guards I’d be tempted :p, otherwise my strategy is to not get hit in the first place, and if I do withdraw and re-enter the fray when I’m back on top of things. I feel like, unless I’m going to bring a strong condition counter, planning to eat up conditions, I might aswell not plan to eat up conditions and avoid them altogether. It’s worked so far.

WvW, traited blink, what would i give up? Phant Fury. Why? I can still maintain high precision which my phants will benefit from. They might even catch fury off of others, or something like pack runes. Otherwise look at what you lose going the sword route, more BF’s, iLeaps, daze/stuns, and iSwordsman summons. That’s a hell of a lot more to give up vs fury on phantasms.

GS.
If you want to take a GS there’s plenty of builds out there that make fantastic use of it. The reason this build works the way it does is because of the careful balance between its glass cannon nature, and the defensive mechanics it brings. GS is a powerful offensive weapon. It comes with zero defensive utility. The scepter has a block/blind, the pistol a stun, and its 1200 range phantasm dishes out a ton of long range damage pressure. Its hard hitting, reliable, and doesnt stray into melee or through AoE. If you want to introduce GS in place of those weapon you’ll need to essentially dream up a new concept that’ll work well for it’s own reasons and purposes. It might sound weird, but if you alter the build in this thread and try to work in some other parts into the machine to do the same job, it’ll break down fairly quickly.

I just wanna make a clarification, how much does you scepter 3 hit with 0 might each hit?

I know the values will differ but lets say on medium armor/2.5k toughness?

A.) Crit
B.)Non Crit

Each hit okay?

StickerHappy.8052:

I just wanna make a clarification, how much does you scepter 3 hit with 0 might each hit?

I know the values will differ but lets say on medium armor/2.5k toughness?

A.) Crit
B.)Non Crit

Each hit okay?

Should I record on a medium golem for you?

The Npcs should be fine.

I noticed you have only 1.8k power.

I run my build with BI, 1.3k power base + 25 stacks might = I dont know the math.

But my freaking Scepter 3 only hits for 400 each hit, with 25 stacks.

Only with this skills, my MW and Warlock hits really hard with 25 stacks.

StickerHappy.8052:

The Npcs should be fine.

I noticed you have only 1.8k power.

I run my build with BI, 1.3k power base + 25 stacks might = I dont know the math.

But my freaking Scepter 3 only hits for 400 each hit, with 25 stacks.

Only with this skills, my MW and Warlock hits really hard with 25 stacks.

Well keep in mind my dazes/interrupts are constantly stacking up vuln, and it never takes long for me to stack bloods from kills, which I tend to hold on to relatively well (Until you go down, I try to save your kitten , and it costs me).

I’ll take a vid.

Here you go lazy.

I personally find that this build could be way more efficient but in order to do that I’m probably turning the build into something else entirely.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsaRnsISNaWmGOqB3aGx0gO9VqSSJVAKdJOxCA-TZBFwACODAOeAAL3foaZAAHCAA

This is prefaced by the fact that I fought someone running your build earlier today and didn’t find it all that intimidating.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Here you go lazy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL2lqSN-E_s

Thank you kind sir.

Dirame.8521:

I personally find that this build could be way more efficient but in order to do that I’m probably turning the build into something else entirely.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsaRnsISNaWmGOqB3aGx0gO9VqSSJVAKdJOxCA-TZBFwACODAOeAAL3foaZAAHCAA

This is prefaced by the fact that I fought someone running your build earlier today and didn’t find it all that intimidating.

The fact you chose Disruptor’s Sustainment undermines absolutely anything you might have to say about any Mesmer build ever. And I’m not trying to be mean by saying that :P

I won’t argue with your experience. Instead I’ll simply say, when I play the build I’m not there to intimidate people. I’m there to defeat them.
I have a solid track record of accomplishing this

Added a pure vs thief montage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz3vb8fBIoY

Ross Biddle.2367:

Dirame.8521:

I personally find that this build could be way more efficient but in order to do that I’m probably turning the build into something else entirely.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsaRnsISNaWmGOqB3aGx0gO9VqSSJVAKdJOxCA-TZBFwACODAOeAAL3foaZAAHCAA

This is prefaced by the fact that I fought someone running your build earlier today and didn’t find it all that intimidating.

The fact you chose Disruptor’s Sustainment undermines absolutely anything you might have to say about any Mesmer build ever. And I’m not trying to be mean by saying that :P

I won’t argue with your experience. Instead I’ll simply say, when I play the build I’m not there to intimidate people. I’m there to defeat them.
I have a solid track record of accomplishing this

My build was just a theory. Then I tried the build and I noticed, I hate waiting for Phantasms to do damage. So, meh.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Added a pure vs thief montage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz3vb8fBIoY

Somebody may think you have something against thieves Do you?

trooper.2650:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Added a pure vs thief montage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz3vb8fBIoY

Somebody may think you have something against thieves Do you?

Actually my beef is with Mesmers atm. To much QQ over them being hard countered by thieves. All the while trying to run a build not viable against them -_-u

Ross Biddle.2367:

trooper.2650:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Added a pure vs thief montage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz3vb8fBIoY

Somebody may think you have something against thieves Do you?

Actually my beef is with Mesmers atm. To much QQ over them being hard countered by thieves. All the while trying to run a build not viable against them -_-u

No contest here, but on the other thread saying mesmers have a lot more room for errors than thieves? That is bullcrapp.

Ross Biddle.2367:

trooper.2650:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Added a pure vs thief montage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz3vb8fBIoY

Somebody may think you have something against thieves Do you?

Actually my beef is with Mesmers atm. To much QQ over them being hard countered by thieves. All the while trying to run a build not viable against them -_-u

In high tier play, running a build other than shatter just isn’t as effective as any other mesmer build currently available. Double ranged seems to be the most popular, but you’re seeing many more Sw/T-GS or Staff shatter mesmers to help with the thief issue (and it indeed does).

When you get down below high level play, I 100% agree with your statement.

Even so, it could justifiably be said that the aspiring few top tier players learning the most effective build and getting wrecked over and over by the hard counter gets old. The QQ is understandable. For the more casual players, yeah stop whining when there are plenty of builds you can play.

The ultimate issue in my opinion is a lack of build diversity in the top tier.

P.S. nice montage

skcamow.3527:

Ross Biddle.2367:

trooper.2650:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Added a pure vs thief montage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz3vb8fBIoY

Somebody may think you have something against thieves Do you?

Actually my beef is with Mesmers atm. To much QQ over them being hard countered by thieves. All the while trying to run a build not viable against them -_-u

In high tier play, running a build other than shatter just isn’t as effective as any other mesmer build currently available. Double ranged seems to be the most popular, but you’re seeing many more Sw/T-GS or Staff shatter mesmers to help with the thief issue (and it indeed does).

When you get down below high level play, I 100% agree with your statement.

Even so, it could justifiably be said that the aspiring few top tier players learning the most effective build and getting wrecked over and over by the hard counter gets old. The QQ is understandable. For the more casual players, yeah stop whining when there are plenty of builds you can play.

The ultimate issue in my opinion is a lack of build diversity in the top tier.

P.S. nice montage

I don’t disagree with you. (Nor Chaos’s cross thread quote/response :p)

how do you handle thieves who utilize shortbow wisely Ross?

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

how do you handle thieves who utilize shortbow wisely Ross?

You’ll have to explain what a wisely used short bow looks like. Not saying it cant be done but what’s the issue you’re facing?

Most thieves I faced will use shortbow as a defensive measure, like spamming skill 3 to avoid incoming damage etc. Typical strategy against shatter but your phantasm builds handle those situation fine.

But there are thieves who play more aggressively like cleaving initial phantasms with auto or cluster bomb. It kind of mitigate most of my offense potentials as a phantasm mesmer. Then the situation gets sticky when he has more control. I tried to daze/stun him but phantasms die faster than I can generate. I think chain stun/daze can at least give those phantasms few moment to deliver attacks, but I’m still working on that. Any thoughts on how to handle these kind of thieves?

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Most thieves I faced will use shortbow as a defensive measure, like spamming skill 3 to avoid incoming damage etc. Typical strategy against shatter but your phantasm builds handle those situation fine.

But there are thieves who play more aggressively like cleaving initial phantasms with auto or cluster bomb. It kind of mitigate most of my offense potentials as a phantasm mesmer. Then the situation gets sticky when he has more control. I tried to daze/stun him but phantasms die faster than I can generate. I think chain stun/daze can at least give those phantasms few moment to deliver attacks, but I’m still working on that. Any thoughts on how to handle these kind of thieves?

Well the benefit of this build is that you pretty much get a new daze/stun and phantasm on every weapon swap. So I’d try to create synergy between the phantasms opening attack and the daze/stun. Other than that, shortbow might offer the thief a defensive measure, and even a counter to the phantasms presence on the field, but the pressure is slow, and on you in particular pretty much negligible. In which case beat them at their own game. You’ve got more range than them with your phant summons, pistol stun, and MoD. So kite, maintain your presence/pressure over control of a point (or decap if they were trying to hold it), and just wait/bait them out of the shortbow.

PvP is a conquest mode so everything comes back to the point tick. You don’t necessarily need to down your opponents to win. If you’re talking WvW anything goes really, so if the sbow thief wants to play silly buggers, well gg to him :p

The only other thought would be to “reset” your phant/stuns, drop MI, and open with a burst from stealth. Summon both iSwordsman, swap to iDuelist, pistol stun into scepter 3, MoD for lockdown, and let the burst burn him down. Can also do this from decoy in which case f3 after decoy but before iSwordsman summons. You could also try playing defensively to begin with. Use his sbow attacks to proc your scepter/oh sword block for a clone or two, use a shatter to bait out some of that evade initiative. Really though if he wants to be passive, let him be passive and beat him at his own game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FHXMuHVWnZc#t=77

Hi Ross,

Mushin here again to bug you a little more :P

I tried small variations. One of which was already suggested in previous posts: going 4 points in Illusions.

I know you think it would undermine the “concept” behind the original build. However, I did some tests. Basically, the overall damage output between you and your iduelist in a 6/6/x/x/x with Assasin amulet is very, very close to the damage you would deal with a 6/4/0/0/4. Difference is that in your build, yourself would end up doing +/-41% damage more than your phantasm, while with Phant Haste, phant would do more and yourself less. Nothing new here, but the total is very similar. It looks like this:

- Asskicker build:

• Mesmer 1425
• iduelist 1012
  • Tot: 2437

- Variation with p. Haste:

• Mesmer 1272
• iduelist 1133
  • Tot: 2405

But I am thinking… how much time do you spend actively fighting and/or hiding, running away while the heal comes up, etc.? So, it’s not like you are always putting pressure, because it’s your phant. that in turn put pressure for you. Or I should say.. it’s a mix of the two, agree?

So, why not spreading the pressure more evenly? The calculation doesn’t take in to account compounding power, which for a power base build would be the ideal choice for going in illusions. Illusions give you also a shorter decoy/phantasms summoning.

Have you tried going this route?