Guild Wars 2

Hey everyone, I’ve had this build for awhile but didn’t post it because the iWarden has been bugged. With the word it will be fixed in the coming patch, I’m comfortable sharing. I’ve included a video which is purely to demonstrate the play style. My opponents weren’t amazingly skilled, and don’t expect glorious 1vManys!

I’ve also spent a bit of time editing the video. I’d love any feedback on the build, video, or playing as I’d like to continue to improve my skills in all three of those areas!

DISCLAIMER –
Not to mislead anyone or ignore the elephant in the room, but this is not as strong as a PU based condition build (but is a really fun alternative!)

THE BUILD –
This is a condition build using the focus. I know right, strange combination. I invite you to explore this fairly uncommon play style.

WvW: http://tinyurl.com/mbuzhg2
PvP: http://tinyurl.com/onncv56
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukzQplj_Dlc

TRAITS/GEAR –
Staff-Scepter/Focus, trait selection is 0/20/30/20/0. See build link for details. I don’t recommend it, but if you’re comfortable playing without chaotic dampening; you can take bountiful interruption for large might stacking potential.

• Runes: Tormenting. Alternatives: Perplexity. In PvP I play Grenth Runes due to lack of Torment runes.
• Sigils: Staff=Torment and Sc/F=Bursting and Doom.
• Food: Rare Veggie Pizza (or Koi Cakes) and Toxic Focusing Crystals for 50% condition duration.

This build inflicts all the conditions in the game except fear. Most of these are inflicted AoE, via the following:

• Burning: Winds of Chaos (hereafter WoC)
• Confusion: Confusing Images, Chaos Armor, Cry of Frustration, iWarden+Chaos Storm combo (all AoE)
• Bleeding: WoC, iWarden (AoE), Debilitating Dissipation (AoE)
• Posion: Chaos Storm (AoE), Doom sigil (on Sc/F)
• Torment: Illusionary Counter, on heal (AoE on heal), Staff (AoE 30% on crit)
• Vulnerability: WoC, Debilitating Dissipation (AoE)
• Weakness: Chaos Storm, Debilitating Dissipation (AoE)
• Chill: Chaos Storm, Chaotic Interruption (AoE)
• Blind: Illusionary Counter (AoE), Chaotic Interruption (AoE), Chaos Armor (AoE)
• Immobilize: Chaotic Interruption (AoE)
• Cripple: Temporal Curtain, Chaotic Interruption, Chaos Armor (AoE)

The build is aptly named due to the generous amounts of torment being handed out. It specializes in AoE conditions which ensure constant pressure that opponents can’t keep up with once you get going. Making things especially difficult is the lockdown spice of the build due to Chaotic Interruption. Your frequent interrupts from a traited Chaos Storm/Temporal Curtain will inflict immobilize and either chill, cripple or blind. These soft cc conditions also serve as nice covers for the damaging ones. Due to the moderate amount of CC, you have strong defense on both weapon sets. If Staff is the Mesmer’s best defensive weapon, Scepter/Focus is right behind it. With the scepter block and crowd control with a traited Focus, you can be effective in 1vMany scenarios.

A good example where this build shines with its AoE conditions is when capturing camps (non-upgraded). This can be done in about a minute or less due to the ability to ball up opponents and let the iWarden hack them up with bleeds. Add to this the AoE effects of Chaos Storm, Debilitating Dissipation and torment on heal and you’re flipping camps fast.

You’re handing out conditions like mad, but how are you managing them yourself? Between Mender’s Purity, Mantra of Resolve and decent permanent regeneration at ~150/sec from your phantasms, you have strong defense against conditions. Add to this the occasional iWarden/Temporal Curtain combo finisher and you couldn’t ask for more. For stun breaks, you have two solid options in Decoy and Blink.

One of my favorite things about this build is the mobility. You can actually catch opponents if you want (yes, in a condition build!), or disengage well. Between swiftness gained from temporal curtain and chaos storm, and teleports from phase retreat and blink, you’re getting around quickly.

PLAYSTYLE (DEFENSE) –
Use the iWarden and curtain defensively. Opponents will be lured into the warden’s attack and become crippled by the curtain. Hide behind iWarden/curtain against ranged opponents as they take reflection damage. Destroy the curtain for strategic interrupts as needed. Learn to use those interrupts to your advantage. The CC effects from CI enable you to gather your bearings or re-position. The CI procs help keep your target immobile or slower (chill/cripple) which greatly increases the chance of a full confusing images attack to land (applying moderate confusion pressure), WoC clone bleed/burn stacking, and helps your iWarden stack bleeds.

PLAYSTYLE (OFFENSE) –
I typically start off with Scepter/Focus and try to land the torment on #2 block. Then play the curtain/iWarden/Confusing Images game. If they fall close to half health, try for a chain F3 daze shatter. This will often interrupt their heal attempt. It’s better to do this on Sc/F because after an initial iWarden spawn/attack, it becomes expendable. Scepter clones are not as dangerous as Staff clones, so you’re OK to shatter here. Then swap to staff and get 2 clones and iWarlock up ASAP. Kite around and this will lay on the conditions. Frequent debilitating dissipation (DD) procs and staff/scepter clone crits via sharper images ensure bleeds are keeping on them moderately. When I want a little more burst, I’ll dodge roll into them if there is a clone nearby, proc’ing DD (sigh, RnG) every time I’m full of clones.

PLAYSTYLE (OTHER TACTICS) –
One of the best ways to use CI in this build is the Into the Void > iWarden pull. Lay the curtain down, gain swiftness from it and spawn iWarden while destroying the curtain. This will pull your opponent into the iWarden and its attack. Try to time this when your opponent is healing for ultimate effectiveness. If you interrupt, they’ll be immobilized due to the CI proc and they’re locked down pretty good. You’ll want to immediately follow with Confusing Images. Unless they cleanse immediately they will get a nice burst of damage and bleeding/confusion stacks. It’s usually game over unless they have massive condition removal available. Against ranged opponents, lay the curtain down and position behind it for a few seconds to proc reflection damage. Just before it disappears, spawn iWarden and destroy the curtain for the pull as described above (see fight with thief in video).

Above all, always try to be in range of opponents when healing to proc torment rune #6. Mirror is perfect for this setup on a short 15 second recharge. Use this offensively, spam it! Even if you’re at 75% health, you’re going to get benefit from it due to its smaller heal amount, and it’s usually available again when you really need the heal. The other gain here is you’re that much more protected from ranged attacks for those 2 seconds each time you pop it. This is a different style and a bit odd at first, but you get used to it. Ether Feast works, but honestly not quite as well as Mirror with the Tormenting runes. Try both and see how you fare.

WHAT ELSE CAN THIS DO?
Zerging is possible due to the AoE conditions and reflects. It’s not the best zerg build by a long shot, but if you want to switch from roaming to a PUG zerg without re-zoning, you can do so. Due to the 20 in inspiration, you can trait glamours or whatever you need.

The build is surprisingly effective in PvP (see PvP build link above). I’ve been very successful in both solo and team queue. I got on a team one night and we won a series of 5/6 in a row and this build was a big contributor. You have to go with Grenth runes currently (vs Tormenting), and the chill procs are quite intense. Grenth runes are incredibly strong. You can hold points decently will all the active defenses and natural regeneration the build provides.

I would never recommend a condition build for PvE simply because power builds are so much more effective, but the fun factor is really high with this. In open world, ball up 5-10 and just watch the decimation (especially taking Mirror Images and popping it with full clones).

well it may not be better than pu condi , but it looks so much more fun than waiting for ur illusions to die next to ur enemy

cheers awesome video

and gz on the 2.5 k wxp item that dropped from the engi

Fairly similar to the build that I am running, except I opt for Pistol over Focus, and I’m going to put 20 into Illusions (at least) for Illusionary Elasticity.
They are fixing the bug with that, so now staff clones are effected as well.
Meaning you can effectively double the damage/conditions they can apply.

Thou I do have to opt for more condition removal in my utilities, either Null Field and/or Phantasmal Disenchanter.

Wyrden.4713:

well it may not be better than pu condi , but it looks so much more fun than waiting for ur illusions to die next to ur enemy

cheers awesome video

and gz on the 2.5 k wxp item that dropped from the engi

Thanks on both counts
Yeah the build is a lot of fun. Since you’re not PU, you really learn to work with the tools you have (blinks/pulls/blocks) in order to survive. It’s very active and aggressive.

Yoh.8469:

Fairly similar to the build that I am running, except I opt for Pistol over Focus, and I’m going to put 20 into Illusions (at least) for Illusionary Elasticity.
They are fixing the bug with that, so now staff clones are effected as well.
Meaning you can effectively double the damage/conditions they can apply.

Thou I do have to opt for more condition removal in my utilities, either Null Field and/or Phantasmal Disenchanter.

You currently run 0/20/30/20/0, and chaotic interruption or PU?

For condition removal, the iDisenchanter actually works against me in many ways because it takes up a precious extra clone slot. I need 3 clones whenever possible to maximize damage output. Mantra of Resolve is great combined with mender’s purity if you have points for it. Null Field is decent though it has a fairly long cooldown.

Post 4/15 patch, mesmer condition builds will be much stronger no doubt. If playing with the staff, It’s going to make it difficult to not go at least 20 into illusions for many builds.

Obviously for this build, the iWarden fix will be big. While I’m looking forward to the new sigil possibilities, I’ll likely need to run energy sigils in one slot to make up for the critical infusion nerf.

I tried this but with torch instead of scepter, I got serious “issues” with the scepter. Now I can see it shine though and really question my torch choice (TORCH?!). When i put the build together it all seemed so nice but when I played with it I just couldn’t get it rolling.

When I see you play it I’m smiling like an idiot, good to see someone who can play using it Gotta give it another try with your version and guides.

looks nice! My interrupt build uses iwarden with CI. It’s oh so deliciois.

jenzie.4083:

I tried this but with torch instead of scepter, I got serious “issues” with the scepter. Now I can see it shine though and really question my torch choice (TORCH?!). When i put the build together it all seemed so nice but when I played with it I just couldn’t get it rolling.

When I see you play it I’m smiling like an idiot, good to see someone who can play using it Gotta give it another try with your version and guides.

Scepter is a main hand, torch is an offhand. You can use both

jenzie.4083:

I tried this but with torch instead of scepter, I got serious “issues” with the scepter. Now I can see it shine though and really question my torch choice (TORCH?!). When i put the build together it all seemed so nice but when I played with it I just couldn’t get it rolling.

jenzie – did you mean you tried it with torch instead of focus? Not sure I followed that.

When I see you play it I’m smiling like an idiot, good to see someone who can play using it Gotta give it another try with your version and guides.

Thanks – I’d be happy to answer any questions on the playstyle/combos here, via forum PM or in-game.

MailMail.6534:

looks nice! My interrupt build uses iwarden with CI. It’s oh so deliciois.

Thanks, yeah curtain/iWarden/CI is one of the best combos we have currently. Do you play condition interrupt? I’m the only one I know of that does, hehe. Obviously most play power.

To that end, I would be very curious if anyone else is playing an interrupt spice build with conditions being the primary damage source.

Omg yeah, that Curtain/iWarden/CI is KILLER. Just imagine when iWarden is fixed! :P

I don’t run condition interrupt. That’s such a unique playstyle. Thanks for the inspiration. I’m going to try out my own version of your build and play around with it. What’s your experience with Ice versus Grenth? Obviously, you prefer the latter; why? Do you tend to shatter a lot? If not, I always find the signet to be more helpful overall even though the burst on Ether is a lot better. I may even try out the mantra heal for extra condi removal.

I currently run Staff/Sword/Focus. 20/20/30.

Hit me up in-game @ Chokawaii

MailMail.6534:

Omg yeah, that Curtain/iWarden/CI is KILLER. Just imagine when iWarden is fixed! :P

I don’t run condition interrupt. That’s such a unique playstyle. Thanks for the inspiration. I’m going to try out my own version of your build and play around with it. What’s your experience with Ice versus Grenth? Obviously, you prefer the latter; why? Do you tend to shatter a lot? If not, I always find the signet to be more helpful overall even though the burst on Ether is a lot better. I may even try out the mantra heal for extra condi removal.

I currently run Staff/Sword/Focus. 20/20/30.

Hit me up in-game @ Chokawaii

Yeah I usually roll with grenth runes in PvP with tormenting or perplexity in WvW. Grenth is the best condition based rune set for everyday tpvp IMO. As my damage comes from conditions, ice runes are vitality based and would cripple my damage too much. I do however use those commonly on my chillruption power based build.

I tend to not shatter in order to proc debilitating dissipation as often as possible, but I will throw in a strategic daze shatter when they get to around half health or I see them lunging for an attack that I’m guaranteed to interrupt.

For heals mirror honestly works best because of it’s low cooldown to proc #6 rune effects and to clear conditions via mender’s purity. Ether feast is still amazing ofc and can be used. The signet just doesn’t work due to the build’s on heal run procs, though could potentially work with perplexity runes.

I look forward to hearing how your experimentation goes.

So I’m trying out all types of things. I run MoD on my main power interrupt build and I honestly can’t help but have it on this one instead of MoR. Mantra of Distraction for me is so clutch because I can lock them in an iWarden whirl or Chaos Storm. Depending on curtain/storm alone doesn’t feel like enough lockdown for me. Of course, you’re sacrificing a huge chunk of condi clear, but when using Mirror (a heal I NEVER use) it seems to work on this tankier build.

I’m also running Blink and portal just so that I feel extra helpful in terms of mobility for my team.

Thanks so much for the inspiration. I’m liking this build right now as we all anxiously await the feature patch! <33

MailMail.6534:

So I’m trying out all types of things. I run MoD on my main power interrupt build and I honestly can’t help but have it on this one instead of MoR. Mantra of Distraction for me is so clutch because I can lock them in an iWarden whirl or Chaos Storm. Depending on curtain/storm alone doesn’t feel like enough lockdown for me. Of course, you’re sacrificing a huge chunk of condi clear, but when using Mirror (a heal I NEVER use) it seems to work on this tankier build.

I’m also running Blink and portal just so that I feel extra helpful in terms of mobility for my team.

Thanks so much for the inspiration. I’m liking this build right now as we all anxiously await the feature patch! <33

Interesting ideas. I find that between traited chaos storm and temporal curtain, they’re readily available, tossing in an F3 shatter here and there. For pure lockdown however, yeah MoD is hard to go without.

I’ve toyed around in the past (not on this build) with using MoD instead of one of my stun breaks – using MoD defensively. So you get stunned, anticipate the burst and daze them. Obviously it’s not as sure-fire as an actual stun break but you also have the utility at your disposal offensively if you need it.

So, I may try swapping decoy for MoD or like you, MoR for it (oh brave one).

hahahah believe me, I’ve gotten owned HARRRD a couple times for not having MoR so use at your own risk broskie! :P

I honestly never thought to use MoD defensively. I usually burn the charges before I can even think that way. Woah, who would have thought. I’ll keep this in mind in the future. Thanks! <3

Following on from here - bump, and some questions!

I just tested this (http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArdWlsnpMtFpxRNcrNitxY6LKJjTWzKlMghB-TJRHwADeCAi2fIZZAAnCAA) out in hotjoin and it’s pure troll mode – like some nasty glue in a group fight on point that kittens over everyone of the opposition.
On the flipside I wouldn’t want to be caught out in a 1v1 in the open by a competent thief, shatter mesmer or sc/f ele for example.

1. How do you feel with no boon removal? I was slotting iDisenchanter in hotjoin to deal with eles/guards for example. I haven’t had time to test extensively but it seems ok without anything – did you ever run into any problems vs boon heavy classes and builds?

2. Is CI really necessary in wvw if solo roaming (I haven’t yet sorted gear for this so zero experience other than in pvp), considering lack of burst damage to capitalise on the immobilise? Would -50% fall damage be relevant instead?

3. Runes and sigils seem to have a lot of choice – I’m now liking doom for the poison, especially with switching weapons regularly and never camping in one set for too long. Hydromancy is fantastic in conquest, but I’m wondering if it is not great in wvw – maybe the torment sigil, earth sigil, bursting or battle instead?

I was thinking something like this for wvw:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArdWlsnpMtFpxRNcrNitxY6LKJjTWzKlMghB-TFSFABuo+DAPAAnU+hz+DwpPAhTBQWKBT+IAEAABYmlZZOzA+uQn5Qn5QLFAMzBA-w
Not sure with runes – tormenting has a 20s cooldown on the heal proc so can potentially miss out if using mirror. Grenth requires you to be in close quarters, and if not using hydromancy sigils it seems a waste of time. Perplexity – well not enough sources of confusion tbh. I like undead because it’s dirt cheap and simple, but not sure if it is the best choice.

Edit: I forgot to add – I just love fighting longbow rangers with this – it totally kittens them up.

Edit 2: I also forgot to add what the best part about this build is… you’re not hiding. Only decoy and MI when necessary so most of the time sitting in plain sight, toying with the opposition.

Edit 3: I’m thinking Krait runes might be a better choice than Tormenting, simply because there are more sources of bleed – DD, SI, staff auto, potentially earth sigil on scepter – so there’s always much more bleeding going on than torment. Also I won’t be worried about mirror heal and the small aoe torment on heal with 20s cooldown.

Edit 4: Nevermind – I realised that with moving targets, torment is going to hurt much more than bleed and would make more of a big difference when chasing enemies, so more important to increase it’s duration.

Just want to bump up this thread because this build is simply amazing and very fun to play.

I made some minor adjustments to the build but overall I enjoy the exact playstyle.

I switch Chaotic Dampening out for Bountiful Interruption. With BI, the dmg output from this build is much stronger than PUC build and the build becomes much more dangerous in group fights (where u can get 25 mights easily).
I also switch Phantasmal Fury out for Longer range Blink.

For utilities, Blink and Null Field are always on my bar. I know a lot hate Null Field because of its hefty long cooldown, but in this build i think the synergy is good enough to justify its use (boonrip, more chaos armor, whirling iWarden for confusion stacking on immobilized target, and cleasning against condi spike).
The 3rd utility depends on which class im up against:
- CC heavy = Decoy
- Condi heavy = iDis
otherwise, Sig of Dom is my go-to skill for extra interrupt and solid stun.

What I like in general with the gear is the option to easily respec to either:

- 0/4/0/4/6, MtD shatter condition build with Sc/F & Staff
- 0/4/4/0/6, MtD shatter condition with Staff & anything
- 4/4/0/0/6, MtD shatter condition with Sc/T & anything
- 0/4/6/4/0, CI condition with Sc/F & Staff

With torment runes and all rabid with torment on crit sigils, you can swap between a handful of different condition builds and weapon choices.

Can’t wait for build templates for 1-click build switching.

I have a question regarding CI and things like warriors with dogged march, soup etc, resistant to the controlling conditions – is CI a complete waste of a trait in such a fight?

It would be good to know before dropping the gold for all this gear and before I start trying it in wvw.

Do you ever swap CI for something else in such a situation?

I’ll try to answer all the questions -

Curunen.8729:

How do you feel with no boon removal? I was slotting iDisenchanter in hotjoin to deal with eles/guards for example. I haven’t had time to test extensively but it seems ok without anything – did you ever run into any problems vs boon heavy classes and builds?

Not really an issue, even with an interrupt build. Sure you’ll run into random stability. At the very least, be mindful, try to wait it out, don’t blow a temporal curtain cool down, etc. If really concerned about it, go with null field or iDisenchanter as keenlam suggested.

Being able to interrupt means you immediately have a decided advantage in this build, but interrupt is only a spice. The damage output inherent to the build is still going to work for you, especially now that we have scepter AA torment (more on that below).

Curunen.8729:

Is CI really necessary in wvw if solo roaming (I haven’t yet sorted gear for this so zero experience other than in pvp), considering lack of burst damage to capitalise on the immobilise? Would -50% fall damage be relevant instead?

Well, CI is one of the fun parts of the build. You could switch a couple things around and go PU, but the fun would be gone (for me anyway). As for burst – the fight with the necro in the video illustrates the burst capabilities. This typically occurs if you interrupt. These should closely accompany an iWarden in their face and full confusing images attack. People simply can’t recover from the CC and damaging conditions in that state, especially if they’ve been blowing clears.

Curunen.8729:

Runes and sigils seem to have a lot of choice – I’m now liking doom for the poison, especially with switching weapons regularly and never camping in one set for too long. Hydromancy is fantastic in conquest, but I’m wondering if it is not great in wvw – maybe the torment sigil, earth sigil, bursting or battle instead?

Indeed, many valid options. For runes, I wouldn’t stray far from tormenting, especially since the scepter buff. A few times I’ve had thieves die in the distance trying to run (you know, like they do when they start losing a fight), only to appear out of stealth downed due to the huge duration torment on them. With 95% torment duration, illusionary counter is 15s, on heal almost 19s, sigil is 9s, ether blast near 4s and ether bolt 6s. It’s a lot to keep up with. Also keep in mind torment on heal does not break stealth!

For sigils, I always have doom on one set. The other is optional. I like bursting because of the condition damage boost but it’s not necessary. Geomancy for melee bleeds or even ice would be really decent. A 3s chill on hit (this used to be on crit) would be very nice in this build. Torment sigil is appropriate for the build, but maybe isn’t as necessary now post scepter AA buff.

Curunen.8729:

Edit: I forgot to add – I just love fighting longbow rangers with this – it totally kittens them up.

Honestly in my opinion, this build is one of the strongest we have for mesmer that can be run against them.

Curunen.8729:

Edit 2: I also forgot to add what the best part about this build is… you’re not hiding. Only decoy and MI when necessary so most of the time sitting in plain sight, toying with the opposition.

Yep, it’s fun from a play style perspective, but also a potential weakness. You have decoy and MI, but this build puts you out there with less room for error vs a PU build. I tried to make up for that by including as much defensive utility as possible, hence the traited focus (more focus pulls!), reflects, chaotic dampening, etc.

Curunen.8729:

I have a question regarding CI and things like warriors with dogged march, soup etc, resistant to the controlling conditions – is CI a complete waste of a trait in such a fight?

It would be good to know before dropping the gold for all this gear and before I start trying it in wvw.

Do you ever swap CI for something else in such a situation?

I wouldn’t be too concerned. Assuming food for you/them, they’re shaving 23% into the default. Sure this hurts a bit, but still enough for them to make a decision on cleansing. 1) again consider the interrupts as a spice and 2) we’re talking about special traits taken by classes specifically to counter other common builds, of which I’d say this isn’t one of them (at the moment xD) So, I’d say it’s not a complete waste.

keenlam.4753:

I switch Chaotic Dampening out for Bountiful Interruption. With BI, the dmg output from this build is much stronger than PUC build and the build becomes much more dangerous in group fights (where u can get 25 mights easily).

This is definitely an option. When I first created the build, I was less skilled that I am now and have since played a few other builds with BI instead of CD. I would honestly probably play the build this way now. It’s never a sure thing, but if you can land interrupts, BI can increase the notion of burst quite a bit.

I’ll also echo the group fight utility. In WvW it’s decent but the group play really shines playing on or just to the edges of points in PvP where you can focus pull players off the point and watch them immobilized with the iWarden on them. Grenth runes play a huge role as well using mirror heal. An AoE chill on point can really turn the tide.

About traiting long range manipulations vs phantasmal fury – it’s a viable option and up to the player at that point. Granted the argument for phantasmal fury would be stronger if talking about iDuelist. In our case you lose a bit of dps from iWarden bleeds, but if blinking 1200 range is more important, by all means. Mobility is very good with this build already with focus + phase retreat + blink, but more is always good in WvW.

skcamow.3527:

I’ll try to answer all the questions -

Not really an issue, even with an interrupt build. Sure you’ll run into random stability. At the very least, be mindful, try to wait it out, don’t blow a temporal curtain cool down, etc. If really concerned about it, go with null field or iDisenchanter as keenlam suggested.

Being able to interrupt means you immediately have a decided advantage in this build, but interrupt is only a spice. The damage output inherent to the build is still going to work for you, especially now that we have scepter AA torment (more on that below).

After playing without boon removal for a while I can see now that it isn’t really necessary and taking something like MoR for personal survival is good.

skcamow.3527:

Well, CI is one of the fun parts of the build. You could switch a couple things around and go PU, but the fun would be gone (for me anyway). As for burst – the fight with the necro in the video illustrates the burst capabilities. This typically occurs if you interrupt. These should closely accompany an iWarden in their face and full confusing images attack. People simply can’t recover from the CC and damaging conditions in that state, especially if they’ve been blowing clears.

I’m trying to get used to the different kind of burst with the conditions compared to a full mirror blade dodge mind wrack in the face!

Oh I wasn’t meaning PU – that seems useless unless taking either torch or veil in addition to the other two stealths – I was thinking more along the lines of either 5/5/4 with confusing combatants, but I agree CI is a lot of fun.

skcamow.3527:

Indeed, many valid options. For runes, I wouldn’t stray far from tormenting, especially since the scepter buff. A few times I’ve had thieves die in the distance trying to run (you know, like they do when they start losing a fight), only to appear out of stealth downed due to the huge duration torment on them. With 95% torment duration, illusionary counter is 15s, on heal almost 19s, sigil is 9s, ether blast near 4s and ether bolt 6s. It’s a lot to keep up with. Also keep in mind torment on heal does not break stealth!

For sigils, I always have doom on one set. The other is optional. I like bursting because of the condition damage boost but it’s not necessary. Geomancy for melee bleeds or even ice would be really decent. A 3s chill on hit (this used to be on crit) would be very nice in this build. Torment sigil is appropriate for the build, but maybe isn’t as necessary now post scepter AA buff.

Well you’ve 100% sold me on dropping ~50 gold on tormenting runes! I would still prefer to use mirror heal, but can live with missing out on heal torment procs every now and then.

For sigils I think I will keep doom on each set, because I like the extra pressure from poison and also an extra condition to cover removals. Definitely taking torment on crit sigil on the staff, and I’m thinking of maybe taking energy on scepter? For the reason if swapping from staff back to scepter/focus in combat, there’s not a lot of immediate defensive options available apart from iCounter (which is best saved for offence tbh), so having a free dodge and clone could be a good thing?

skcamow.3527:

Honestly in my opinion, this build is one of the strongest we have for mesmer that can be run against them.

Yeah, you can completely shut down longbow rangers from strategic skill placement and timing. I would go as far as saying they shouldn’t be able to best you in a 1v1.
Swings and roundabouts though – while on gs+sw/t shatter I preferred fighting other glass cannons such as other shatter mesmers, thieves, zerker eles, while being very wary of condition bunkers such as the cheese engi builds – on this build it’s completely the opposite.
In fact, 1v1 with a greatsword shatter mesmer might just be the worst counter for this build – I still haven’t found a way to beat them if they have above average skill. Not being able to reflect GS auto is a pain.

skcamow.3527:

Yep, it’s fun from a play style perspective, but also a potential weakness. You have decoy and MI, but this build puts you out there with less room for error vs a PU build. I tried to make up for that by including as much defensive utility as possible, hence the traited focus (more focus pulls!), reflects, chaotic dampening, etc.

Yes, I’ve found I need to think and place skills carefully to stay alive, and of course there are situations where a PU build with 3 or more stealths will easily survive/escape and I doubt this build will be able to. But in any case, I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the survivability and escape potential.

skcamow.3527:

I wouldn’t be too concerned. Assuming food for you/them, they’re shaving 23% into the default. Sure this hurts a bit, but still enough for them to make a decision on cleansing. 1) again consider the interrupts as a spice and 2) we’re talking about special traits taken by classes specifically to counter other common builds, of which I’d say this isn’t one of them (at the moment xD) So, I’d say it’s not a complete waste.

Good to know – I’d hate for it to be a waste of a trait, but at least all that torment should as you say have good chance of killing runners if they don’t cleanse.

LOL, just had an engineer calling this build cheese (or rather “gay”) in hotjoin… xD

Rich, coming from one of the ultimate cheese builds and classes in conquest.

Anet – give me MH pistol and I will be running this all day every day:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRArd8alsnpMt1oxRNcrNitRY6tosTWvWygDA-TFSHABmo+jRK/0d/BBeAAopfAgTCQUKBD+IAEAABYmlZZWmB+uQn5Qn5QLFAMzBA-w

(pistol in place of sword, add battle sigils where necessary. Or maybe P/F, Sc/P)

:D

First off this is a fun build. IMO I have tried to use both torment and traveler runes for wvw. The lack of swiftness was really felt. Also with traveler runes the boon duration increase lets the swiftness from curtain last 17 seconds, creating near perma swiftness. The stat loss is really minor for condition damage in my build 120 loss using traveler. The swiftness boon and condition duration make traveler a better option for wvw use. Again a very refreshing play style other than shatter for wvw.

denis.9487:

First off this is a fun build. IMO I have tried to use both torment and traveler runes for wvw. The lack of swiftness was really felt. Also with traveler runes the boon duration increase lets the swiftness from curtain last 17 seconds, creating near perma swiftness. The stat loss is really minor for condition damage in my build 120 loss using traveler. The swiftness boon and condition duration make traveler a better option for wvw use. Again a very refreshing play style other than shatter for wvw.

Hmm, thank you for that – if the damage loss is not very noticeable then I would prefer traveler. The more important thing is the torment duration – do you notice the loss of this without torment runes?

Would you mind linking your build for reference?

The loss is 15percent due to gaining 10 condition duration from traveler runes but it is a flat condition duration increase instead of just torment increase. So the loss wasn’t felt. I am using koi cakes to help with condition duration also in wvw.

On phone so trying to remember the actual numbers if wrong I apologize.

No problem, whenever you get time.

One thing I am having great difficulty with while testing in hotjoin is fighting shatter mesmers – even though I know what they’re going to do, I just cannot seem to best them if it comes down to a 1v1.

The reflects are completely useless and my condition pressure is <<<< their direct damage burst. Any advice?

I’m wondering whether to go tanky phantasm with traited focus instead of condition.

Edit: Another thing – any thoughts on using Antitoxin runes with -condition duration food for more defensive play, then taking signet of dominaiton instead of a mantra? Swap out food for either + or – condition duration depending on what you’re fighting?

Curunen.8729:

But in any case, I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the survivability and escape potential.

Definitely – with all the swiftness at your disposal + ph retreat + long range blink, you should have all you need. I’ve never had a problem escaping or chasing.

Curunen.8729:

LOL, just had an engineer calling this build cheese (or rather “gay”) in hotjoin… xD

Right, and I guess I’d say, “mission accomplished”. Engineers are going to have a rough time with this build due to 1) the large reflect potential and 2) your good condition clears.

As far as cheese is concerned – it’s not nearly as easy to play as a PU build. Adding focus to a condition build is something you don’t see often and has a higher skill floor to pick up and utilize effectively. Also, scepter AA torment perfectly complements this build and gave it a decent buff (most consider that cheese and it is what it is).

denis.9487:

First off this is a fun build. IMO I have tried to use both torment and traveler runes for wvw. The lack of swiftness was really felt. Also with traveler runes the boon duration increase lets the swiftness from curtain last 17 seconds, creating near perma swiftness. The stat loss is really minor for condition damage in my build 120 loss using traveler. The swiftness boon and condition duration make traveler a better option for wvw use. Again a very refreshing play style other than shatter for wvw.

Glad you’re having fun with it! On the notion of travelers, help me understand. Without traveler’s you have about 16s of swiftness from the curtain, 4s shy of the 20s recharge. Does the 4s make it feel slow? I mean, with the 16s swiftness, long range blink and phase retreat forward, I can’t imagine giving up near 100% torment duration for all the various sources. Sure, what you get in return are decent stat buffs and boon/condition duration (60/45). But I think the issue I’m seeing is the lack of perma swiftness. To me, the 25% speed boost seems wasted when you have 33% the vast majority of the time.

Curunen.8729:

One thing I am having great difficulty with while testing in hotjoin is fighting shatter mesmers – even though I know what they’re going to do, I just cannot seem to best them if it comes down to a 1v1.

Yeah they can be difficult, especially those with GS since mirror blade is unblockable. Just dodge the shatters as much as you can and use the focus pull to mess with them. You’re quite tanky, so you should be able to eat a bit of damage. GS is easy to get illusionary counter off on them so ensure you do that early.

Other than that, the build works pretty well against most classes 1v1 and you’ll always have a counter build here or there that’s a bit tougher to handle. I’ve personally found good lockdown mesmers and good dps guards to be troublesome. The average ones are typically no problem.

Curunen.8729:

Another thing – any thoughts on using Antitoxin runes with -condition duration food for more defensive play, then taking signet of dominaiton instead of a mantra?

Certainly could, again accepting the trade off of shorter torment duration and having only one source of condition removal in MP. The #6 rune bonus is decent, because poison is quite prevalent in most encounters (even versus power builds who run doom sigils in case they run into warriors or regen rangers). I know your idea is to ditch the mantra, but in this case mantra of distraction would be a much better choice than the signet and would let CI work for you even more.

skcamow.3527:

Curunen.8729:

One thing I am having great difficulty with while testing in hotjoin is fighting shatter mesmers – even though I know what they’re going to do, I just cannot seem to best them if it comes down to a 1v1.

Yeah they can be difficult, especially those with GS since mirror blade is unblockable. Just dodge the shatters as much as you can and use the focus pull to mess with them. You’re quite tanky, so you should be able to eat a bit of damage. GS is easy to get illusionary counter off on them so ensure you do that early.

Other than that, the build works pretty well against most classes 1v1 and you’ll always have a counter build here or there that’s a bit tougher to handle. I’ve personally found good lockdown mesmers and good dps guards to be troublesome. The average ones are typically no problem.

Well I finally managed to 1v1 a decent shatter mesmer I ran into, but it’s not easy. Funnily enough thieves are much much easier thanks to low cooldown on staff and focus – and even if they manage to get at you, the most I’ve been bursted is around 50% health.

skcamow.3527:

Curunen.8729:

Another thing – any thoughts on using Antitoxin runes with -condition duration food for more defensive play, then taking signet of dominaiton instead of a mantra?

Certainly could, again accepting the trade off of shorter torment duration and having only one source of condition removal in MP. The #6 rune bonus is decent, because poison is quite prevalent in most encounters (even versus power builds who run doom sigils in case they run into warriors or regen rangers). I know your idea is to ditch the mantra, but in this case mantra of distraction would be a much better choice than the signet and would let CI work for you even more.

Haha, yeah I guess I’m just not a mantra fan – I like MoResolve for the simple reason that the words are badkitten (unbroken, unshaken, resolved!)!

I like that the signet of domination would make up for some lost condition damage through duration if taking antitoxin runes, and then depending on the encounter I could swap between koi cakes and leek soup where necessary.

In fact, I just ran this a few times in hotjoin – yeah I just felt the urge to try runes of resistance for no reason! Not really optimal but it wasn’t bad.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArdWlsnpMtNoxRNcrNitxY6LKJjTWzKlMghB-TZRHABJVGgsnAww7PIwhAAgTAAA

Edit: Now tried melandru runes and generosity sigils in pvp with signet of domination – seems to work ok, although I would definitely prefer antitoxin if it was available. Quite liking the generosity sigils for this – hopefully in a few months the price should drop again and I can buy some because at the current price it’s a joke.

Hi Curunen, may i suggest sigil of cleansing as a cheap alternative to generosity as in this build, you swap weapon quite often.

keenlam.4753:

Hi Curunen, may i suggest sigil of cleansing as a cheap alternative to generosity as in this build, you swap weapon quite often.

Very nice suggestion, I’ll try it out next time I play.

So normally I leave the volume down for these videos, because I can’t stand the music most people put with them.

Then I see the song credits roll at the end and kick myself in the kitten because Devin Townsend is probably my favorite single musician. Very nice!

Also, fun video. Nice zerg juke, haha.

Ok, I’ve realised one thing from fighting some good thieves and guardians among others – energy sigils are a kitten lifesaver and enable survival where you shouldn’t be able to survive.

So I’m going to go energy/doom on sc/f and energy/torment on staff (energy/doom in pvp).

Very cool build and great discussion here. I was looking for something that I could run in WvW that I could transfer over to PvP when I am ready for that. I started running it last night to practice with it in WvW and got my first party request from an elementalist in an opposing faction to talk kitten b/c I beat him a couple of times in a row. I’m not very good at dueling so this was a welcomed surprise.

So I have been playing this spec in WvW for weeks and loving it.
However, I have trouble going against high regen warrior who simply outheals all my condi dmg as well as having so much mobility.

Right now im thinking of switching from tormenting runes to grenth runes for the extra chill since Temporal Curtain doesn’t give a reliable cripple to slow down those GS warriors.
Also I’m using doom sigils on both weapon sets as well.

Anyone have any good tip to deal with warriors in general?

keenlam.4753:

So I have been playing this spec in WvW for weeks and loving it.
However, I have trouble going against high regen warrior who simply outheals all my condi dmg as well as having so much mobility.

Right now im thinking of switching from tormenting runes to grenth runes for the extra chill since Temporal Curtain doesn’t give a reliable cripple to slow down those GS warriors.
Also I’m using doom sigils on both weapon sets as well.

Anyone have any good tip to deal with warriors in general?

Yeah warriors are plain difficult in WvW. Using a chill sigil instead of torment on one might help slow them down a little. As far as fighting them, one thing to keep in mind is to never attack them when they’ve popped Berserker Stance or Endure Pain (noting that can also pop via their Defy Pain trait). A lot of conditions and damage can be mitigated via those two utilities.

More videos please! This has been awaited for very long! Stop the delay please! :p

Bumping this because it is a great fun build.

EDIT:

Nevermind – gone back to this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArdWlsnpMtlqxRNcrNitxY6LKJjTWzKlMghB-TJRHwADeCAi2fIZZAAnCAA

It’s just disgusting crowd control with hydromancy + grenth and doom to maintain poison in 1v1 if it comes down to it. Yeah, a shame to have to lose the energy sigils, but I’m finding it’s ok as long as I dodge efficiently, instead of to blow up illusions or randomly – often a focus pull + dodge/weaponswap is enough to begin the annoyance.

Currently running this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArdWlsnpMtlqxRNcrNitxY6LKJjTWzKlMghB-TJRHwAw2fIZZAAnCABPBAA

Decided to try without grenth runes and hydromancy sigils to see how it would work. Raw damage output is certainly the most difficult thing to create unfortunately.

I like double doom sigils here because it helps me to focus one target and keep a high uptime of poison on them. Undead runes are just a placeholder – I can’t seem to make my mind up on rune choices – ideally trying to boost damage output.

Wvw version – still gearing up a couple of trinkets for this, so again things like undead runes just a dirt cheap placeholder:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArdWlsnpMtlqxRNcrNitxY6LKJjTWzKlMghB-TFSHwAmU/5iGGjK/gt/ggnUAgTpAa9BRVCGAABYmlZZOzA+uMH6MH6MLFAMzBA-w

The trouble with things like torment/perplexity/grenth and so on, is only boosting one condition duration – and the problem I have with that is due to damage coming from many different condition sources – bleed/torment/confusion/burn – it seems a shame to only boost one rather than boosting them all.

Anyway, just a bit confused trying to squeeze out as much single target focused damage without sacrificing too much of what makes this build fun.

I’m going to try this build with MoD and Perplexity runes to cause as many rage quits as possible in WvW.

As for travelers runes, over the course of a sprint equal to the duration of the trained focus cool down (20sec) you have 33% extra speed for 15.5 seconds and 0% speed for 4.5 seconds. 33*15.5/20 = 25.575% weighted speed over the course of the sprint, which slightly surpasses the landspeed of Travelers if you use your curtain perfectly. Therefore I do not find Travelers runes speed for that 4.5 seconds of no swiftness worth the offensive power you give up.

Snakebyte.2804:

I’m going to try this build with MoD and Perplexity runes to cause as many rage quits as possible in WvW.

As for travelers runes, over the course of a sprint equal to the duration of the trained focus cool down (20sec) you have 33% extra speed for 15.5 seconds and 0% speed for 4.5 seconds. 33*15.5/20 = 25.575% weighted speed over the course of the sprint, which slightly surpasses the landspeed of Travelers if you use your curtain perfectly. Therefore I do not find Travelers runes speed for that 4.5 seconds of no swiftness worth the offensive power you give up.

Let us know how you get on with perplexity and MoD there.

I think that’s what’s nice about this build – there are half a dozen decent rune choices, and third utility skill choice is flexible.

Right, I’ve finally settled on this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArdGlsnpMNOqhbtRsNGTfRJZcyaWpkBMMA-TFyCABA8gCwR9nU03glyPm3fQiTpwYKBn+IAEAABgvL0ZO0ZO0CBoYOA-w

and it is amazing. I only have exotic weapons and armour at the moment, and also have not infused any of the ascended trinkets yet, and it still kicks major kitten, especially once the corruption stacks up.

Once I have saved up a bit (just blew a load of gold on finishing Mawdrey as well as all the torment runes/sigil…), I’ll get the ascended weapons done.

Second utility I swap out depending on situation:
- null field, if 1vMany and need the extra condi removal/potentially boon removal and chaos armour proc
- portal, provides this build with fantastic mobility
- MoD, when there’s only one or two non-boon heavy enemies and I want to go on the offensive

I can use other utilities, but I prefer to switch between these three depending on the situation. 1200 blink and decoy of course being the other two slots.

I’ll be honest though – I strongly prefer to play power shatter in pvp, so now that I have geared up I prefer to use this build only in wvw – and I don’t bother using it in pvp anymore.

Curunen, why torment over perplexity? I run a similar build with perplexity and I love it.

Snakebyte.2804:

Curunen, why torment over perplexity? I run a similar build with perplexity and I love it.

Because I don’t always use MoD – I use portal, null field, SoD fairly often, so I don’t always benefit from the confusion on interrupt.

Also, because of the trait distribution, the only sources of confusion are scepter 3 (which won’t land all the stacks against a good opponent), chaos armour and F2.

Whereas scepter clones do torment AA, scepter block has torment, heal procs torment in cqc and sigil of torment at least maintains an extra condition when in staff.

The build doesn’t have confusion on illusion death, doesn’t have confusion on shatter, doesn’t have traited confusion duration increase, and doesn’t make huge use of things like having a duelist shoot through an ethereal field. Edit, ok the warden in a chaos storm or null field can do a bit, but not reliable for me.

If there was more native confusion in this build, I would certainly choose perplexity over torment, but unfortunately there isn’t.

The increased torment duration, as stated by skcamow, makes it easier to secure kills on enemies who decide to try and flee halfway through a fight.

Edit: I take it you play more for securing the interrupts? In that case between MoD, curtain, chaos storm and F3, perplexity makes more sense.

Well you are running CI so I figured you’d be popping enough interrupts to make perplexity worth it. Do you just not run CI when you don’t run MoD? I thought interrupts were the whole point. I’m a noob though so I may be missing something.

Snakebyte.2804:

Well you are running CI so I figured you’d be popping enough interrupts to make perplexity worth it. Do you just not run CI when you don’t run MoD? I thought interrupts were the whole point. I’m a noob though so I may be missing something.

To be honest, CI is more like the “cherry on top” the way I prefer to play. It’s funny, despite CI being the grandmaster trait, it’s more like subtle flavouring that turns focus pull, chaos storm and F3 into major annoyances for an enemy. They are cover conditions that force an enemy to blow condition cleanses for the immobilise, and protect the key damaging conditions (torment/bleed/confusion/burn and debuffs such as poison/weakness). Unlike say a power interrupt build, there’s no heavy burst to follow up after an interrupt – even focus pulling into warden, hitting with confusing images and proccing torment on heal won’t dish out the sort of burst you can do in say a power/direct damage or shatter interrupt build. Because of this, I personally don’t see the benefit of focusing on interrupts as the core playstyle – yes one should definitely aim to interrupt with curtain and rng chaos storm, as well as a strategic F3 shatter, but it’s not mandatory to win.

Sure, you can certainly focus on landing interrupts and condition bursts, which is how I’m guessing you like to play, and it would be perfectly successful because condition mesmers have a huge amount of flexibility when it comes to executing a build, especially with this trait selection.

My other problem with perplexity is the 15s internal cooldown on interrupt confusion – for me that is too much micromanagement – if I choose to for example keep an enemy disabled through multiple interrupts for a shot period of time which is less than 15s, only one of those will benefit from the confusion proc.

In any case, I’ve been toying with the idea of stacking up insane levels of condition damage through undead runes, corruption sigils, guard stacks, SoD, consumables and so on… The trouble with runes like torment and perplexity is that they only buff one condition whereas undead on top of the chaos trait for 10% toughness to condition damage gives a decent boost to all damaging conditions – and given there are plenty of bleeds also flying around. Funny how undead runes are dirt cheap compared to perplexity and torment – I might make a second rabid armour set with undead runes to test again (and buy a few stacks of them in case they get buffed or increase in price in the future – look at the price of hoelbrak runes now…).

Anyway, swings and roundabouts – torment, perplexity, undead… they’ll all do the job.

lol, I was just messing around in some hotjoin with the grenth rune setup and I get called “pu mes” by a thief.

Have been called “pu mes” by others as well…

Just goes to show how people still whining about mesmers have no clue what our traits actually do.

Curunen.8729:

lol, I was just messing around in some hotjoin with the grenth rune setup and I get called “pu mes” by a thief.

Have been called “pu mes” by others as well…

Just goes to show how people still whining about mesmers have no clue what our traits actually do.

I get called PU whenever I play any condition Mesmer EXCEPT Pu. Whether that’s condi shatter, CI condi, or signet clone death. People are ridiculously ignorant.

MailMail.6534:

Curunen.8729:

lol, I was just messing around in some hotjoin with the grenth rune setup and I get called “pu mes” by a thief.

Have been called “pu mes” by others as well…

Just goes to show how people still whining about mesmers have no clue what our traits actually do.

I get called PU whenever I play any condition Mesmer EXCEPT Pu. Whether that’s condi shatter, CI condi, or signet clone death. People are ridiculously ignorant.

Hehe, it is stupid.