Guild Wars 2

Hey just a short post with my opinion to a problem I have with all the different types of mesmer build:

Most of the ppl around here divide the builds into these categorys:
Phantasm, Shatter, Condition, Lockdown, Hybrid, Burst…

The thing I’d like to know is: Why?

I my opinion it’s not like we have one grp of builds, no. We have 3 groups of builds.

Shatterbuilds
Hybridbuilds (Means shatter+phantasm)
Phantasmbuilds

Those 3 groups have the possibility to be a build with different natures. On the first hand we can have:

• Conditionshatter
• Lockdownshatter
• Burstshatter
• Hybridshatter
• …

The second buildstyle we have are hybridbuilds that relay on shatters and phantasms:

• Conditionsbuilds
• Lockdownbuilds
• Burstbuilds
• Hybridbuilds
• …

Last point to mention are the phantasmbuilds we can play. We CAN play a phantasmbuild with:

• Burst
• Lockdown
• Condition
• …

Back to my question: Why divide builds in groups like condi or phantasm? We obviously can combine them…
~ Me Games Ma

For most condition builds you use clones to apply conditions and you don’t shatter them. This is especially true if you pick the clone death traits. So, they neither shatter nor use phantasms.

never saw a mesmer that doesn’t use phantasms

With shatter being the class mechanic and every weapon set having a phantasm, it’s hard to avoid using them – every build is going to use one or the other at some point, though some more than others.

Even an on death trait build will have use for a well timed MW or something.

Me Games Ma.8426:

never saw a mesmer that doesn’t use phantasms

Hardly possible when every weaponset is bound to have one but especially shatter builds tend to shatter phantasms immediately after they attack once, sometimes twice. I would hardly describe that as “using” phantasms.

Regarding ConditionShatter, the build is practically non-existant. There is one shatter that applies a useful amount of conditions in F2, but the duration is much too short and confusion is far from what it once was. If there would be trait to, say, apply bleeding or other conditions (yeah, there’s vulnerability, but that hardly does anything in a real condition build), there could be a ConditionShatter.

Me Games Ma.8426:

never saw a mesmer that doesn’t use phantasms

The act of using phantasms does not make a phantasm build. Your list is woefully incomplete.

Edit: What exactly was the purpose of this whole thread again?

Iavra.8510:

Me Games Ma.8426:

never saw a mesmer that doesn’t use phantasms

Hardly possible when every weaponset is bound to have one but especially shatter builds tend to shatter phantasms immediately after they attack once, sometimes twice. I would hardly describe that as “using” phantasms.

Regarding ConditionShatter, the build is practically non-existant. There is one shatter that applies a useful amount of conditions in F2, but the duration is much too short and confusion is far from what it once was. If there would be trait to, say, apply bleeding or other conditions (yeah, there’s vulnerability, but that hardly does anything in a real condition build), there could be a ConditionShatter.

Before the confusion-nerf (long ago i know) the conditionshatterbuild could instand stack 15 stacks of confusion. when surprising an enemy with them you could kill him instant.^^

Pyroatheist.9031:

Me Games Ma.8426:

never saw a mesmer that doesn’t use phantasms

The act of using phantasms does not make a phantasm build. Your list is woefully incomplete.

Edit: What exactly was the purpose of this whole thread again?

Well first of all i wrote “…” under each list (that does mean that there are more) and pls tell me what else is there?

• let your phantasms alive
• shatter your illusions
• use clones, phantasms and shatters (i called this hybrid)

Clonespammers count as hybrid since they DO use phantasms and also have good effects with shatterskills.
Well yeah, you could say that it’s a group of builds but since there are only traits that inflict conditions on your illusions death so that makes almost every clonspam a conditionbuild.

I think you didn’t get my meaning. I complain about things like this:

There are many builds that use conditions in combination with 2-3 iDuelists and “Sharper Images”. I dislike that some call this “conditionbuild” and some call it “phantasmbuild” since it does include BOTH it’s a kitten phantasmbuild with conditiondmg or however you’d like to call it. just mention both aspects of the build.

A good example for doing it right is the “Shatterlock”. Shatter=Shatter… :> Lock=Lockdown this is the way I’d like to have it.

~ Me Games Ma

Edit: Also I didn’t say that using a Phantasm makes your build a phantasmbuild. Every mesmer uses phantasms. My groups just describe the different ways of handeling your phantasms.

• Shatter: You shatter them almost everytime after their first attack
• Hybrid: You shatter them if you think that you benefit more of that than letting them life.
• Phantasm: Only shatter them if it’s needed or your enemy is almost down

Me Games Ma.8426:

Well first of all i wrote “…” under each list (that does mean that there are more) and pls tell me what else is there?

• let your phantasms alive
• shatter your illusions
• use clones, phantasms and shatters (i called this hybrid)

Clonespammers count as hybrid since they DO use phantasms and also have good effects with shatterskills.

You’d be right, except that you’re wrong. Yes, clone spamming builds …cast phantasms. That doesn’t make them built around the effects of phantasms. Additionally, they don’t have good effects with shatter skills. As a matter of fact, using shatters other than distortion/diversion will always negatively impact your play.

Me Games Ma.8426:

Well yeah, you could say that it’s a group of builds but since there are only traits that inflict conditions on your illusions death so that makes almost every clonspam a conditionbuild.

Yes, that makes clone spam builds a condition build. You still seem to be ignoring the fact that they are neither shatter builds, phantasm builds, or somewhere inbetween shatter and phantasm that you have termed hybrid (that doesn’t actually exist much. Phantasm/shatter hybrids are incredibly rare).

Me Games Ma.8426:

There are many builds that use conditions in combination with 2-3 iDuelists and “Sharper Images”. I dislike that some call this “conditionbuild” and some call it “phantasmbuild” since it does include BOTH it’s a kitten phantasmbuild with conditiondmg or however you’d like to call it. just mention both aspects of the build.

So that would be a build that utilizes phantasms to do condition damage, or a phantasm condition build.

Me Games Ma.8426:

• Shatter: You shatter them almost everytime after their first attack
• Hybrid: You shatter them if you think that you benefit more of that than letting them life.
• Phantasm: Only shatter them if it’s needed or your enemy is almost down

These classifications just make no sense. That’s not how shatter builds work. I suppose that’s sorta how phantasm builds work. Your ‘hybrid’ definition is simply the definition of how literally every non-phantasm build works.

Again, I still fail to understand the purpose this thread serves.

What Pyro said. The mesmer main mechanic revolves around shattering and illusions, and then there are secondary things (manipulations, mantras, signets even) but these are mechanics. I believe a build is more of the purpose with which one uses these mechanics, not the mechanic itself.

GreenLentil.3927:

What Pyro said. The mesmer main mechanic revolves around shattering and illusions, and then there are secondary things (manipulations, mantras, signets even) but these are mechanics. I believe a build is more of the purpose with which one uses these mechanics, not the mechanic itself.

Sums it up nicely.

Me Games Ma.8426:

never saw a mesmer that doesn’t use phantasms

cough http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92-8kCxprcc cough
yeah, I was pretty bad back then…

hm. maybe you all don’t get what I want to explain because my english skills are too bad :x i won’t try to explain another time.

Never before have so many words made so little sense

Or I’m just tired.

/ Osicat

Meow

That’s likely coming from all that PU you are doing lately, Osi. Just come back to good ol’ shatter and it’ll be fine again :P

Me Games Ma.8426:

hm. maybe you all don’t get what I want to explain because my english skills are too bad :x i won’t try to explain another time.

I think the purpose is to sort through all the lingo. In order to make some sense out of the variety of builds available there are categories… For example you listed condition shatter which relies on condition damage and the shatter mechanic. In this case “Condition” describes the type of gear required, and (as described earlier in the thread) the mechanic for spreading conditions is to “shatter”. So you are looking at a descriptions for: Gear, Traits, Playstyle, Weapons.

For mechanics/playstyle make a bell curve of which skills are used, in what order, to obtain intended results. Example: there is clone death and shatter, two distinctly different methods for applying conditions. You can produce a ton of clones for some condition builds it does not mean you are going to shatter them every time F1:Mind Wrack is available.

And I believe Hybrid builds are Power/Condition damage (Gear)… Anyone using hybrid as phantasm err sometimes shatter umm maybe clone deaths, is confused.