Guild Wars 2

After so many builds I realized I cannot do without Deceptive Evasion (clone on dodge). When playing without it I feel like naked…
To me it has become a compulsory talent in any pvp build and I do not like this much because it tunnels me in one direction.
Don’t take me wrong, the talent is good, maybe too good! Played it in conjunction with any form of cloaking it really drives not expert players crazy, and may help survival vs advanced players.

How many of you area actually doing pvp in any form, decided not to take this talent, feel are doing well and decided they can do without it? Just a curiosity to see if I too should make the step not to take this talent and never look back again.

Bunker builds is what you want to avoid it. You dont want to squirt clones every time you dodge, because it destroys one of your phantasms (and you need those for dps). And by being bunker, you dont need to move around so much. Also, you want to preserve your skillpoints for defensive traits, leaving the Dueling trait line on a “only if you must” basis. Even if you do go 20 points down it, you also have the mantra cooldown competing with the clone on dodge – very powerfull trait for bunker builds.

Dwadler has stated it, for Shatter, Condition damage builds this trait is extremely powerful. I have seen numerous mesmers making the mistake of taking a phantasm build with this trait, yes it does keep your illusions on an almost constant upkeep of 3 which is good for ether fest. it does add a little more confusion to your oponents, but i would rather have 2 zerker’s out and 1 defender that 1 defender 1 zerker and 1 clone.

can you post a bunker build, please? (with gear too if possible)

at the moment I run this
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQRAsf7alwzipXUzgGb9IipH9mvBckUoavWJF42FC-TwAA1CtICSFkLITQygsBNIYFxWk5HA

with blade training over phantasmal fury sometimes, but I would like both….

Guess it depends. I find that as a squishy zerker , I typically burn through any PVE mobs fast enough that having this traited in a phantasm/power/crit/crit dmg build keeps me alive longer by providing a lot of misdirection and fuel for ether feast.

Dawdler.8521:

Bunker builds is what you want to avoid it. You dont want to squirt clones every time you dodge, because it destroys one of your phantasms (and you need those for dps). And by being bunker, you dont need to move around so much. Also, you want to preserve your skillpoints for defensive traits, leaving the Dueling trait line on a “only if you must” basis. Even if you do go 20 points down it, you also have the mantra cooldown competing with the clone on dodge – very powerfull trait for bunker builds.

I haven’t seen a mesmer standing in the middle of the fight without moving/avoiding direct damage just because traited like a bunker. I have over 2800 armor and some times I wish I had more.

And squirting clones every dodge will not replace phantasms. At least this is what I noticed. Priority is replacing another clone. Phantasms are replaced by creating a new phantasm if no clones are out. If no clones are “summoned” you will end up with 3 phantasms. Using Deceptive evasion will kill 1 phantasm leaving you with 1 clone and 2 phantasms. By doing the same again your only clone should be replaced by a new one. Isn’t this how it works?

trooper.2650:

I haven’t seen a mesmer standing in the middle of the fight without moving/avoiding direct damage just because traited like a bunker. I have over 2800 armor and some times I wish I had more.

When I say “you dont need to move around so much” I dont exactly mean stand still and take it up the kitten . Mesmers have a hard time doing that in PvP regardless of spec. But you dont need to go nuts by dodging every which way just to avoid death.

And you are right about the cloning mechanics, hence why I also said you replace a phantasm. Not all of them. HOWEVER that assume that your phantasms never die – they will die every other second. If you make a phantasm bunker and dodge around alot only to find that all 3 of your illusions are now clones, its pretty bad. Easier to see when you need to replace a phantasm if there is nothing up. A bunker probably also use staff/sword/whatever, which are capable of pumping out better clones (ie those that pop combo fields).

Still I do not see why this talent shouldn’t be in any build. Whether this skill is core to a play style or not it’s always useful to be able to confuse the enemy. The only time I wouldn’t, if given the option, get a clone out of a dodge is when in stealth since it can give your position away.

I guess I will have to play without it again and see if I can get used to not having easy popping clones

Firstly depending on your build, this can drastically hinder your dps.
Again depending on your build, there can be traits that will benefit you much better than this trait.
Again depending on your build, you might already have enough illusion production and taking this could just be a complete waste of your time.
This is by no means a mandatory trait to EVERY mesmer out there, and i would only recommend it to a few builds.

I posted my build on one of the previous reply. I would like to keep 10 points in duelling and have at the same time phantasmal fury + blade trainig (or duelist’s discipline, which one should I pick?) hence all the rant regarding deceptive evasion

I tested this the other day. I spawned three phantasms and then started spawning clones. The first clone destroys the oldest phantasm. The second clone destroys the first clone. The third clone destroys the second clone and so on, so I don’t see anything wrong in taking DE for just about any build.

I had a thief yell at me last night in spvp that mesmers are OP…

As for “bunker” builds, I don’t really understand what those are. Does it require a staff? Is there a minimum amount of toughness? Regardless, I run with a similar build as Trooper and just faceroll in spvp and compete well in tpvp. You can have 1800 toughness and still do an excessive amount of damage.

i use to not use the trait until the ic nerf. with the nerf to ic, i now have problems with clone generation.

Helios.3598:

I tested this the other day. I spawned three phantasms and then started spawning clones. The first clone destroys the oldest phantasm. The second clone destroys the first clone. The third clone destroys the second clone and so on, so I don’t see anything wrong in taking DE for just about any build.

I had a thief yell at me last night in spvp that mesmers are OP…

As for “bunker” builds, I don’t really understand what those are. Does it require a staff? Is there a minimum amount of toughness? Regardless, I run with a similar build as Trooper and just faceroll in spvp and compete well in tpvp. You can have 1800 toughness and still do an excessive amount of damage.

Thanks Helios.

Maybe it’s me that wasn’t good, but since I started using this build I found myself to be really strong/hard to kill even vs multiple foes. I know there is plenty of videos on youtube about a single mesmer killing groups of enemies in wvw (osicat/seven and so on) but they use builds which I am not too comfortable with. I guess I will have to find out myself how important deceptive evasion is for my play style regardless of how much this trait gels with the overall build. In the end I just wanted to have either the sword or the pistol to recharge faster to the detriment of a skill which help to confuse enemies.

The trait is amazing, but it’s getting mandatory for any builds and I don’t like it. Right now, I’m getting used to Blurred Inscription and Cleansing Inscription (Signet build).

Like you, OP, I feel naked without DE thought.

It seems like you are playing more of a bunker phatasm build. Getting either blade train or duelist discipline is what i would have done as well. If you go for Blade training you will get a 2.5 sec CD reduction off of blurred frenzy and iLeap which is good as well as +50 precision which you have not really stacked up in you build.
Increasing the range on Pistol to 1200 is excellent as well 4 sec CD reduction off Duelist and 5 sec CD reduction off Magic Bullet.

Personally i would choose Duelist discipline over the other 2 traits

Personally I can’t, though I am only lvl 61 and levelling. Once I realized that it only overwrites phantasms if there is no room for 1 illusion (it keeps overwriting that then) for emergency dodges, I just saw no reason not to take it unless I would plan to play something with 3 phantasms up at all times…

Well, I am glad I’m not the only one
Yesterday I did few runs in spvp without DE and tried improved sword and later improved pistol.

Unfortunately I have to confirm everything said until now. The talent is too good, almost mandatory. When I am alone vs 2 or more there is not chance you can come out alive if without it (at least in spvp, not talking about wvw now). Not having the thief burst you cannot kill anyone simply by hiding often with torch/decoy/MI. Anyone with a grain of salt would know what to do as soon as you reappear.
In a 1v1 scenario you can do still do a good job. However, the clones from DE can work has a fodder for phantasms which otherwise wouldn’t last long.

Ultimately I can say from my experience that Deceptive Evasion is a must talent in any pvp build. I guess I could do without in wvw zergs and pve scenarios but still it would be useful there too. It’s not a coincidence that all pro and not pro players posting videos have DE (very few exceptions here)

I would be glad if someone could prove me wrong.

playing without DE is plain stupid. Illusions are your damage, if you can’t create them you’re just asking to be worst than all other mesmers who runs DE. I never ran a build without DE and will never do. Not even worth trying builds without it. DE to mesmers is like an auto attack (skill 1 duh) to all classes, try to play without ever using it and see how ‘awesome’ you’re.

Nuka, not everyone runs a staff/x condition build, not everyone runs shatter build..
For my phantasm build i can have 3 phantasms up in no time and this trait would hinder the build dramatically. If i had to play to survive longer i would be dead, but i have to play to kill my enemy as fast as i can before they get me.

For a phantasm build you have to have a lot more sense of your illusions, when can i use a skill that produces a clone? how long will i be at a disadvantage when this happens? Do i already have a clone out? Are my phantasms almost off cool down?

How about you and i have a test?

Nuka, not everyone runs a shatter build, where illusions are your main form of damage. Take this build for example
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8dl0zqqXUTqGa9IxJFMf5oe09s/dSKgdqB-jUyAYLBZCCMJKQZvioxWGLiGryGT9SEVbvFqN5KaA-w
As you can see, no DE. It’s a hybrid phantasm shatter build, full bunker with great damage and support with nearly perma projectile reflect. And what’s your definition of awesome? Does being able to 1v2 consistently, and occasionally 1v3 count? Cause that’s how I fare with this build.

Psych.6527:

If i had to play to survive longer i would be dead, but i have to play to kill my enemy as fast as i can before they get me.

This.
DE helps with survival (and dps for certain builds)
Without DE survival gets kitten.
This is in my own experience of course.

Everyone has their own experience, mine is that i dont feel it as brings much to my build as other traits do.
My focus is on nuking people.
I have never stated that DE is a bad trait, but for my phant build the extra precision and cool down along with the phantasm having fury, help me ensure that i can get that kill when i need to, within the first second of the fight i will have iDefender and iWarlock out, soon the iZerker will follow. if the opponent has not downed, they have suffered a great loss, if a tanky opponent, i will need all 3 of the phantasms to keep the pressure extremely strong whilst still being able to dodge crucial point without worrying about my DPS being hindered.

There will be occasions when you are busy with a long battle and and manage to get 3 iZerkers out, it happens often against

Craig.2403:

Nuka, not everyone runs a shatter build, where illusions are your main form of damage. Take this build for example
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8dl0zqqXUTqGa9IxJFMf5oe09s/dSKgdqB-jUyAYLBZCCMJKQZvioxWGLiGryGT9SEVbvFqN5KaA-w
As you can see, no DE. It’s a hybrid phantasm shatter build, full bunker with great damage and support with nearly perma projectile reflect. And what’s your definition of awesome? Does being able to 1v2 consistently, and occasionally 1v3 count? Cause that’s how I fare with this build.

I know not every1 runs a shatter build, i don’t always run a shatter build and DE in a none shatter build NEVER ever came close to bothering me.

I don’t use DE in my Shatter build as it would overwrite my phantasms.

Xavi.6591:

I don’t use DE in my Shatter build as it would overwrite my phantasms.

Um, what? I think I’m confused. In a shatter build, aren’t you, uh, shattering? That should get rid of your phantasms quicker than an overwrite, right?

Anyway, I agree that DE is awesome, but mandatory? Nah. Phantasm builds likely would avoid it, and I don’t like it with the WvW roaming build that I use (I don’t want a clone showing where I am if I dodge while stealthed). Still, out of the 20-point Dueling traits, it’s likely going to be taken more often than others.

When playing shatter or PU i take it since i need the clones either for shattering or for triggering “on clone death”-traits. When playing phantasm i don’t take it since i don’t want to overwrite my phantasms and i need the pistol-trait in that slot.

People say DE destroy phantasms, yes, it does, ‘if’ you have three up, and you’re dodging but so does, iLeap, Phase Retreat, Mirror Blade and so on. Do some of you just spam auto attacks while running a phantasm build or what o.O

Nuka Cola.8520:

People say DE destroy phantasms, yes, it does, ‘if’ you have three up, and you’re dodging but so does, iLeap, Phase Retreat, Mirror Blade and so on. Do some of you just spam auto attacks while running a phantasm build or what o.O

No, we use those abilities (or at least I do). In my phantasm build that I use for tpvp I generally have an iDuelist up, an iZerker up, and a clone from using iLeap/Mirror Blade. I have no need to create a clone every time I dodge. Unless my opponent is an idiot (at which point I don’t need to worry about losing to them), he is going to target me before I have anything summoned. I will then have the opportunity to use Decoy to break target, but that will generate a clone to disorient him.

I see no reason to take Deceptive Evasion over Duelist’s Discipline or Blade Training in a majority of phantasm builds. In fact, depending on one’s weapon and trait choices, some of the points in dueling could be entirely reallocated elsewhere to be more useful.

That being said, Deceptive Evasion is a great trait. Most shatter and condition builds really have little to no reason for not taking it. However, you can’t claim that it’s a staple of every mesmer build, phantasms included. If you want to make that claim, could you please enlighten me as to what benefit Deceptive Evasion provides for a phantasm mesmer who doesn’t need lots of clones and how that benefit outweighs all the other traits available to said mesmer?

Palu.3405:

Nuka Cola.8520:

People say DE destroy phantasms, yes, it does, ‘if’ you have three up, and you’re dodging but so does, iLeap, Phase Retreat, Mirror Blade and so on. Do some of you just spam auto attacks while running a phantasm build or what o.O

No, we use those abilities (or at least I do). In my phantasm build that I use for tpvp I generally have an iDuelist up, an iZerker up, and a clone from using iLeap/Mirror Blade. I have no need to create a clone every time I dodge. Unless my opponent is an idiot (at which point I don’t need to worry about losing to them), he is going to target me before I have anything summoned. I will then have the opportunity to use Decoy to break target, but that will generate a clone to disorient him.

I see no reason to take Deceptive Evasion over Duelist’s Discipline or Blade Training in a majority of phantasm builds. In fact, depending on one’s weapon and trait choices, some of the points in dueling could be entirely reallocated elsewhere to be more useful.

That being said, Deceptive Evasion is a great trait. Most shatter and condition builds really have little to no reason for not taking it. However, you can’t claim that it’s a staple of every mesmer build, phantasms included. If you want to make that claim, could you please enlighten me as to what benefit Deceptive Evasion provides for a phantasm mesmer who doesn’t need lots of clones and how that benefit outweighs all the other traits available to said mesmer?

Essentially two:

- Survival: it provides more cover for you/your phantasms creating distraction. In my build stealth as much as iDuelist is a core skill. Disappearing and being able to have a clone out by dodging is just great (like decoy does). At the same time you also have the effect associated to the illusion kill (the purple burst) , which helps… quite a lot I would say since confusing enemies is inherent to the mesmer profession whether it does damage or not. I know it may sound pretentious but the x factor can help (like necros with all the minions/pets/golem out)
- having always three illusions out is core to Ether feast and Illusionary defense.

I’d love to get rid of it but unfortunately my performance isn’t the same when I play without it.

@ Nuka: High end phantasm mesmers actually have a sense of what illusions they have out and how many, I already have enough clone productions, and a lot of the times i end up with 3 phantasms up, but i know my cooldowns as well.

Phantasm mesmer is not about spamming, it requires the most focus on your illusions of all the builds. The players must pay attention to what he uses and when he uses it otherwise said player could be wasting cooldowns or crucial DPS.

I have seen the way you post on these forums, frankly the my way or the high way is not very comforting to other members of these forums. Please think before you post accusations like this.

I don’t pay attention to my illusions at all…only because, due to my PVE build, I just don’t need to. With maximized offense, I laser right through content and since my illusions die quickly, I just pump them out on cool-down until the encounter is over (which is typically very short). So, in my case, it’s all about spamming…though I see your point in regards to other builds for WvW, etc.

But Nuka has a point here:

“People say DE destroy phantasms, yes, it does, ‘if’ you have three up, and you’re dodging but so does, iLeap, Phase Retreat, Mirror Blade and so on. Do some of you just spam auto attacks while running a phantasm build or what o.O”

Being careful of which skill you use it is possible to have 3 phantasms out at the same time. However it is hard to achieve it in a pve scenario. I can’t imagine achieving it in pvp. Any time you use a skill which summons a clone the third phantasm would be replaced. In an ideal situation you would end up floating between 2 phantasm+1clone and 3 phantasms with the third lasting very little. This does not take in consideration that phantasms die easily. Anyway, I guess good players can manage to do without DE.

However, my post is more concerned with a pvp scenario. With this being said I firmly believe DE is still a must

I do not play PvE often, My main focus is S/TPvP..

To reply to what i do in situations of iLeap, Mirror Blade and Decoy. If I were to have 3 phatasms up, you should know which one was brought out the earliest and also when bring out phantasms know which ones are least important and can be replaced so you can bring them out first. Use clone generating skills when you can see an opportunity to drain a lot of the opponents healths or to gain a tactical advantage over the opponent.

It is all very situational, but entirely up to the mesmers control, i want to be able to dodge attacks incoming whilst i am in stealth without giving my position away so that i can set up for a burst. Having 3 iZerkers up puts massive amounts of pressure on the opponent, even bunkers, and bring that pressure down can give him enough time to heal or last till reinforcements come.. Then CC’ing, Boon stripping and auto attacking can win you the fight along with active defense, you dont need to immobilize then or gain extra stacks of might with 3 iZerker’s.

Saying DE is the best trait to take is plain ignorant, the only effects i gain from having 3 illusions up is ether fest which i have never had a problem with.

Right now this like me seeing, shatter spec is only good spec mesmer has..
Honestly, i think some people just need to see the light, the possibilities are endless to say the least.

Psych.6527:

@ Nuka: High end phantasm mesmers actually have a sense of what illusions they have out and how many, I already have enough clone productions, and a lot of the times i end up with 3 phantasms up, but i know my cooldowns as well.

Phantasm mesmer is not about spamming, it requires the most focus on your illusions of all the builds. The players must pay attention to what he uses and when he uses it otherwise said player could be wasting cooldowns or crucial DPS.

I have seen the way you post on these forums, frankly the my way or the high way is not very comforting to other members of these forums. Please think before you post accusations like this.

“high end phantasm mesmers” lol

Psych.6527:

Right now this like me seeing, shatter spec is only good spec mesmer has..
Honestly, i think some people just need to see the light, the possibilities are endless to say the least.

No one said shatter is all that’s good and not everyone enjoys summoning minions and wait for them to kill target while you spam your auto, mindless gameplay, useful and powerful in a 1v1 but as mindless as a spirit rit doing a 1v1 in gw1.

That is the type of ignorance i was speaking about.

Psych.6527:

That is the type of ignorance i was speaking about.

im sorry but “high end phantasm mesmers” made me jiggle, not my fault…

You obviously have not experienced to class to its limits. Certain builds fit certain roles exceptionally and on par with other classes.
Thanks for going off topic by the way, again proving my point.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Psych.6527:

Right now this like me seeing, shatter spec is only good spec mesmer has..
Honestly, i think some people just need to see the light, the possibilities are endless to say the least.

No one said shatter is all that’s good and not everyone enjoys summoning minions and wait for them to kill target while you spam your auto, mindless gameplay, useful and powerful in a 1v1 but as mindless as a spirit rit doing a 1v1 in gw1.

I never said anyone had said those words, but i have seen that on many forum posts. I am comparing the assumption of DE to shatter builds now, if you had read properly you would see it is a comparison and not a statement.
Some phantasm builds can be braindead spamming boom, win 1v1. That doesnt mean all are in the general direction of that, earlier was a post about a bunker phantasm build, is that also mindless? Phantasm mesmer can be a great additive to team fights if A) the player knows what he is doing and there is some form of teamwork going on.

I dont care how much you try to troll me, it just shows that your level of arguments lack the intelligence to form well thought out points of views. This is also a forum where everyone has a different point of view, beating on other wont gain you any respect.

Using your logic shatter is also mindless playing iLeap, blurred frenzy, mirror images boom massive burst dps. When actually the way people may play is so interactive with their build and profession that it is that synergy that makes them excel.

So far: DE personal preference, if it suits your playstyle and build, you can take it. In the end no one can tell you how to play the game even if they think they are a know it all.

Dhampyr.2104:

Xavi.6591:

I don’t use DE in my Shatter build as it would overwrite my phantasms. This is

Um, what? I think I’m confused. In a shatter build, aren’t you, uh, shattering? That should get rid of your phantasms quicker than an overwrite, right?

Anyway, I agree that DE is awesome, but mandatory? Nah. Phantasm builds likely would avoid it, and I don’t like it with the WvW roaming build that I use (I don’t want a clone showing where I am if I dodge while stealthed). Still, out of the 20-point Dueling traits, it’s likely going to be taken more often than others.

kitten moment.

I meant that I don’t run DE in my PvE phantasm builds. I need more coffee.

Psych.6527:

You obviously have not experienced to class to its limits. Certain builds fit certain roles exceptionally and on par with other classes.
Thanks for going off topic by the way, again proving my point.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Psych.6527:

Right now this like me seeing, shatter spec is only good spec mesmer has..
Honestly, i think some people just need to see the light, the possibilities are endless to say the least.

No one said shatter is all that’s good and not everyone enjoys summoning minions and wait for them to kill target while you spam your auto, mindless gameplay, useful and powerful in a 1v1 but as mindless as a spirit rit doing a 1v1 in gw1.

I never said anyone had said those words, but i have seen that on many forum posts. I am comparing the assumption of DE to shatter builds now, if you had read properly you would see it is a comparison and not a statement.
Some phantasm builds can be braindead spamming boom, win 1v1. That doesnt mean all are in the general direction of that, earlier was a post about a bunker phantasm build, is that also mindless? Phantasm mesmer can be a great additive to team fights if A) the player knows what he is doing and there is some form of teamwork going on.

I dont care how much you try to troll me, it just shows that your level of arguments lack the intelligence to form well thought out points of views. This is also a forum where everyone has a different point of view, beating on other wont gain you any respect.

Using your logic shatter is also mindless playing iLeap, blurred frenzy, mirror images boom massive burst dps. When actually the way people may play is so interactive with their build and profession that it is that synergy that makes them excel.

So far: DE personal preference, if it suits your playstyle and build, you can take it. In the end no one can tell you how to play the game even if they think they are a know it all.

Im not trying to troll you, i just fund your sentence funny… Im not gonna go into details with the stupid shatter is as mindless as summoning three phantasms/stealth and go afk/make a coffee then come back when target’s dead, but on mez i have ~2.7k hours, i tried everything worth trying and know for a fact DE isn’t useless in a phantasm build. You may prefer not having it and that’s fine, its your preference and you do what you want but its FAR from useless and since other Dueling traits are nothing spectacular like DE or IC, there’s close to no point on missing on DE. Am i like the only person in this game who takes advantage of clones as a barrier against ranged none piercing attacks? like what the hell…

My recent experience verse a purely Phantasm mesmer with no DE in sPvP is straight forward. I simply shatter once or twice to kill of his phantasms and then faceroll him. The toughest mesmer opponent I recently had was a hybrid GS + Sw/Pistol mesmer who used Decoy and MI. I only won by a hair due to a couple lucky Mirror casts.

I think, due to the lower phantasm HP in pvp and wvw, phantasm builds are simply less dependable. I think this is intended by ANet to discourage the autopilot mesmer who just spawns a few phantasms, hides, and go gets a drink. It’s doubley bad since Vengeful Images was nerfed into nothingness.

As for DE, even if you prefer phantasms, think of your clones as moving shields. Even if you are targeted, your clones are still able to pop marks, block projectiles, and on death can keep you opponents crippled when traited. The mesmer is already the most mobile class in combat. Keeping your opponents crippled just makes you even quicker.

Helios.3598:

My recent experience verse a purely Phantasm mesmer with no DE in sPvP is straight forward. I simply shatter once or twice to kill of his phantasms and then faceroll him. The toughest mesmer opponent I recently had was a hybrid GS + Sw/Pistol mesmer who used Decoy and MI. I only won by a hair due to a couple lucky Mirror casts.

I think, due to the lower phantasm HP in pvp and wvw, phantasm builds are simply less dependable. I think this is intended by ANet to discourage the autopilot mesmer who just spawns a few phantasms, hides, and go gets a drink. It’s doubley bad since Vengeful Images was nerfed into nothingness.

As for DE, even if you prefer phantasms, think of your clones as moving shields. Even if you are targeted, your clones are still able to pop marks, block projectiles, and on death can keep you opponents crippled when traited. The mesmer is already the most mobile class in combat. Keeping your opponents crippled just makes you even quicker.

that plus if you want to kill faster you could always pop three clones on target, shatter with Diversion applying 15+ stacks THEN send your double phantasms iLeap/blurred frenzy for maximum pain. Its just funny when people say illusions from DE have no space just because phantasms are your main damage, really funny.

trooper.2650:

After so many builds I realized I cannot do without Deceptive Evasion (clone on dodge). When playing without it I feel like naked…
To me it has become a compulsory talent in any pvp build and I do not like this much because it tunnels me in one direction.
Don’t take me wrong, the talent is good, maybe too good! Played it in conjunction with any form of cloaking it really drives not expert players crazy, and may help survival vs advanced players.

How many of you area actually doing pvp in any form, decided not to take this talent, feel are doing well and decided they can do without it? Just a curiosity to see if I too should make the step not to take this talent and never look back again.

I always take it. ALWAYS.

When I was leveling, and I had looked up the Mesmer traits I saw DE and said..

“Oh man, I don’t care what kind of build I have, but I HAVE to have this!”

DE is great, but it’s like any addiction. Once you start using it for long periods of time its sooo hard to break away from. It spoiled the crap out of me and my dodging habits became so bad on any spec that didn’t run the trait (sPvP fixed that real fast.. and painfully). The trait is our best form of clone production, but far from mandatory. There are a lot of builds that can’t even take the trait… But things like this:

Nuka Cola.8520:

playing without DE is plain stupid. Illusions are your damage, if you can’t create them you’re just asking to be worst than all other mesmers who runs DE. I never ran a build without DE and will never do. Not even worth trying builds without it. DE to mesmers is like an auto attack (skill 1 duh) to all classes, try to play without ever using it and see how ‘awesome’ you’re.

I could never agree with this. Mind you, this is from the same guy who said …

Nuka Cola.8520:

There’s only shatter. If you run anything else to be ‘different’ you’re doing it wrong. Running anything but shatter heavy builds is like playing with one hand and not playing as much as you would with both hands. If you don’t shatter you 1) deal pathetic aoe damage, 2) don’t apply aoe confusion (which isn’t amazing in pve but still free damage), 3) don’t build any Might stack to deal EVEN more damage with everything… Fail if you focus on phantasm crap or anything else.

DE is a clone production tool, just like Mirror Images and a number of our weapon skills. It’s the best clone production we have, true, but not every build needs to squat clones out that much.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

When I was leveling, and I had looked up the Mesmer traits I saw DE and said..

“Oh man, I don’t care what kind of build I have, but I HAVE to have this!”

DE is great, but it’s like any addiction. Once you start using it for long periods of time its sooo hard to break away from. It spoiled the crap out of me and my dodging habits became so bad on any spec that didn’t run the trait (sPvP fixed that real fast.. and painfully). The trait is our best form of clone production, but far from mandatory. There are a lot of builds that can’t even take the trait… But things like this:

Nuka Cola.8520:

playing without DE is plain stupid. Illusions are your damage, if you can’t create them you’re just asking to be worst than all other mesmers who runs DE. I never ran a build without DE and will never do. Not even worth trying builds without it. DE to mesmers is like an auto attack (skill 1 duh) to all classes, try to play without ever using it and see how ‘awesome’ you’re.

I could never agree with this. Mind you, this is from the same guy who said …

Nuka Cola.8520:

There’s only shatter. If you run anything else to be ‘different’ you’re doing it wrong. Running anything but shatter heavy builds is like playing with one hand and not playing as much as you would with both hands. If you don’t shatter you 1) deal pathetic aoe damage, 2) don’t apply aoe confusion (which isn’t amazing in pve but still free damage), 3) don’t build any Might stack to deal EVEN more damage with everything… Fail if you focus on phantasm crap or anything else.

DE is a clone production tool, just like Mirror Images and a number of our weapon skills. It’s the best clone production we have, true, but not every build needs to squat clones out that much.

Yes and the 2nd quote was referring to pve. Phantasm builds in high level fractals are trash compared to shatter ones and for things like that i wish we had a damage monitor so it could be proven easily. You won’t just deal significantly more damage on a shatter build in pve but a tone more (groups are balled up and don’t move from aoe), plus when this was written iZerker (the only aoe phantasm worth a kitten ) was bugged. Run a phantasm build on lev48 fractals without DE and see for how long they’ll be standing dealing their damage.