Guild Wars 2

(This thread is specifically for the PvP variant of the Chaos Maestro. ) Guide is still a work-in-progress

THE CHAOS MAESTRO
The Chaos Maestro is the title I’ve used for various Mesmer support builds that all share a common theme of manipulating Signet of Inspiration to spread obscene amounts of boons to your team. “Chaos” comes from both the random nature of the boon gathering and for the fact that this build travels 20 to 30 points up the Chaos Line. “Maestro” is another word for master, as in “Master of Chaos” but is usually used in reference to music. I felt that fitting since this particular build commands a certain amount of control over the rhythm of the battlefield.

THE BUILD

0/4/6/4/0 ( WvW)
0/4/6/4/0 (PVP)

Dueling: II, X // Chaos: V, VIII, X // Inspiration: III (or IV if taking mantra heal, or I or II), VIII
Sword / Focus – Staff Runes of Battle & Energy (I currently use 2xBattle 1xEnergy 1xFire)

Superior Runes of the Pack (or Altruism or Strength)

Berserker (for damage) or Soldiers (for bunker)

Blink // Null Field(or iDisenchanter or Arcane Thievery) // Signet of Inspiration // TimeWarp

Chocolate Omnomberry Creme (20% boon duration)

PLAYSTYLE BREAKDOWN

• Damage comes from smart use of both Phantasms and Shatters. As a general rule, the larger the fight the more often you’ll be shattering. In smaller groups and 1v1 situations damage is more likely to come from your sword and phantasms. One of your most important damage “rotations” is to Summon Temporal Curtain and let it linger a bit to grab swiftness/reflect >> Summon iWarden (PULL curtain halfway through warden summon or when you’re sure you can interrupt) >> iLeap + Blurred while Warden spins.

• Support revolves around timing reflects and interrupts as well as keeping an eye on the amount of boons you have. Whenever you find yourself with atleast 4 boons lasting atleast 5 seconds is a good time to share.
  The best times to do this is after/during Chaos Storm while you have Chaos Armor up and F2 shattered OR after ileaping off Temporal Curtain & activating the pull in a group fight (and of course.. shattering) which nearly guarantees an interrupt.

WHAT DOES THE BUILD OFFER?
A pvp build’s success or failure is often determined by how impactful it is in a team setting. If the build excels at nothing, then there isn’t much incentive to run it besides for the fun of it. A boonshare build can seem like a one-trick-pony when not used properly, but this build does have a few strengths and weaknesses note. Keep in mind that I would not have posted this build or taken the time to write a guide if I hadn’t played it thoroughly (going on 3 months now) first to be certain the build is effective in tournaments.

Pros

• Perma Vigor/Might/Swiftness/Regen – High uptimes of Protection/Retaliation/Fury
• Extremely durable, capable of handling 2v1s on point.
• Lockdown support via reflects, immobilizes, and boonstripping.
• AoE damage.

Cons

• Not as much damage as Lockdown & Shatter.
• No Stealth
• Designed for team fights.
• Necros and Corrupt Boon. Oh lawd…
  —-

VIDEOS

• The “Boonstorm” performed by Alissah: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQm1A5c2dRY ( A Chaos Maestro variant with 4 Altruism Runes & 2 Superior Water runes, thus the lack of Fury. Also, Omnomberry Creams (20% boon duration) are not in use here.

- More linked below -

BOONSHARE MESMER IN PVP
While the concept of the boonshare Mesmer is not unheard of, it is still one of the least-played of Mesmer playstyles. This is often due to boonshare builds being written off as hypothetically inferior before being able to be put into practice. It’s not surprising, with Guardians, Engineer, and Elementalist stealing all of the boon-spotlight, leaving the poor red-headed stepchild boon support Mesmer to quietly skulk in the shadows cursing at the world for prejudging it before ever giving it it’s proper due. Well no more, I say! It is time to separate fact from speculation.

MESMER – JUST NOT MEANT FOR SUPPORT?
One of the things I feel hold back Mesmer build diversity of the idea that Mesmers are only good at doing damage, be it power or condition, and thus have very few options for runes/sigils/armor. While our support is often covered with Glamours (Portal, Feedback, Null Field) the general playstyle is the same: “run up and do a crap-ton of damage.”

There have been effective Bunker Mesmer, and healing Mesmer, but people often say “well X class can do it better so why bother?” My response tends to be: “X class isn’t always going to be around, and when they are it’s not guarantee’d they’ll be the build that YOU want them to run.” This isn’t an attempt to defend an inferior build, but to explain that different classes can perform similar functions differently. I know how to Cleric’s Mantra heal very well, and unless the nearby Elementalist is running Aquatic Benevolence or the Engie is specced for healing, they’re not going to outheal me in a small group team fight. Yet in a massive Zerg setting I’m not going to fool myself into thinking that my mantra heals are superior to blasting water fields, but I still provide Portal, Veil, Feedback and several other functions that other classes can’t provide. It’s not about who’s better at what, it’s about what you bring to the table and how much of an impact you have on the battle.

GUARDIANS – BEST FRIEND OR BITTER RIVAL?
The biggest argument against boonshare Mesmer is often “well Guardians are better at sharing boons anyway. Why bring a Mesmer for what a guard can provide?” Bunker -“shout”- Guards are excellent at providing defensive boons; they are unparalleled at granting Protection, Regeneration, and Stability. But this does not mean they overshadow us as Guradians and Mesmer provide entirely different boons. The Chaos Maestro is unparalleled at providing teamwide perma-Vigor (Dodges recharge twice as fast) in addition to having permenant Swiftness, Regeneration, & 7x Might and high uptimes of Retaliation, & Protection.
When the two fight side-by-side, the result is glorious! A constant supply of teamwide offensive and defensive boons. One of the strengths of boonshare Mesmer is to be able absorb boons from allies and reflect them back, giving double uptimes to allies (dat stability!) and this aspect is shown at it’s best when fighting side-by-side with a Guardian, Engineer, or Elementalist.

the build lives !!!

VIDEOS

• The “Boonstorm” performed by Alissah: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQm1A5c2dRY ( A Chaos Maestro variant with 4 Altruism Runes & 2 Superior Water runes, thus the lack of Fury. Also, Omnomberry Creams (20% boon duration) are not in use here.

Chaos Maestro in TeamQueue (PUG)

Yeah, these weren’t the most difficult opponents and probably another PUG like us, but I manage to go without a single death in this match and demonstrate some of the techniques outlined in this guide. I’m addicted to jump-dodging because in my head sylvari should flip around like elves. =P

I died once here, and died quite stupidly. -_- I got a few nice 1v1s against a somewhat competent thief trying to rip me off the treb. Normally when I run this in Kyho I treb until I’m pulled from it and then decap/capture far before circling back to the treb but things went a little differently this match. I’m not sure but it seems near the end someone quit. x.x

Now I know it’s not common to see someone put up a video of them losing with the build, but I felt this particular match highlights what happens when you play the build half-kittened. Poor decision-making on my part directly led to my team’s defeat as I got all silly running into Gasmic. (Yes, the same Gasmic from the Mesmer vs Ele stories)

HOTJOIN HEROICS

I wish I had recorded sooner. I joined an outnumbered match for some practice and started kicking so much culo that I ended up flipping the recorder on to see what happens. I went undefeated this match (not too hard in hotjoin though) and there are some pretty good demonstrations as to how the build works.

Hail the mad jump dodger!

This is very raw footage as you can tell. I didn’t intend for this to go out yet – dat chaos, kid in a candy store. Ignore the guy talking in the beginning, I was watching cmc’s stream at the time. You can hear him butcher my name xD.

screw skamcow for the crap camera angle

Wyrden.4713:

screw skamcow for the crap camera angle

Haha, yeah thought of that after I was done capturing. Like I said though this wasn’t meant for the real deal.

And don’t shoot the messenger! xD

[s]Wait.. there’s audio? o_O All 5 times I watched it I did without sound.

Annd my bad man, I was toooo hype! Too hype! (Though, that’s also why I didn’t put “Vid” in the title just yet.) I just saw the opportunity to visually answer some questions people constantly ask me, especially the Focus Pull – into – Warden at 2:30.

and once again thanks a bunch man. (And yeah, I can’t not jumpdodge anymore. x_x I just automatically hit jump everytime I hit dodge. Sylvari should flip around like elves I say!) [/s]

So with the new videos posted, the above two comments may not make sense, they’re from raw early footage of Skcamow recording me in hotjoin (thanks again man!) but now that I have my own recorder I removed them.

This thread inspired me to come up with a reworked Boon Support build!

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsdWlknpMtlqxANcrNCuxY6JaoiTOyJlMgfB-T1hFABA8AAMRVBGODAnpJYm9HS4QAMoaNkBgaMA-w

I wanted to exploit the fact that mesmers are the only class that can get +60% boon duration in PVP. A few notes on this setup:

-Sword 3 + Temporal curtain 2x combo yeilds ~23s Retaliation lol
-Perma Swiftness (19.25s from Temporal Curtain on a 20s CD)
-Can remove/transfer a total of 7 Conditions on 9s (sigils), 20s (heal), and 36s (AT) CDs
-3 Boon Steal has great synergy with boon duration + boonshare
-Easily build + share 25 Might Stacks

Basically as you play and manipulate everyones boons they’ll ‘stick’ to you and start snowballing until youve got 25s or more of several different boons. Then spread the love and wipe the enemy team! You wont be shattering much, except for Diversion for the Bountiful Interruption procs. Surprisingly, a lot of damage comes from Might + Retaliation + Reflect damage.

Thanks for the inspiration Chaos, this build is great fun!

While the concept sounds really cool, and I’m really curious to see the spec.. I think you posted the wrong link. =P

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsdWlknpCttpxANcrRirhY6Whqdyi7IVgSFB-TJhIABAcGA2Z/hhLD81jAAA

Whoops!

Well that is an interesting variant. It looks like you’ve shied away from 1v1 potential to focus almost entirely on team support; with this build your damage is going to be dismal, but your ability to share boons will be unparalleled, (with the exception of Vigor =[ ) especially if you could squeeze in Mantra of Concentration .

One idea I’d suggest is to consider sacrificing some overall boon duration for the sake of Might stacking. If you were to grab Strength Runes and Strength Sigils you’d be able to stack hefty amounts of might even without interrupting, and this would help increase your personal damage as well as significantly boost the power of your team.

The other tradeoff here would be condition removal. Since you’re already pretty durable, Mantra of Recovery could help you deal with conditions and free up your sigils/runes. Just something to keep in mind in case you feel your personal damage is too low (though you’d prolly make a really nice Bunker).

After running some tournaments with Time Warp for the first time in … ever, I wanted to do a little writeup on how it worked out in this build.

TIMEWARP vs MASS INVISIBILITY

Time Warp (referenced further as Twarp) has seen very little play since Quickness was nerfed in half over a year ago. The problem is that despite the massive blanket nerf, Twarp still has the same obscenely long 4-minute cooldown that it did beforehand with only half the effect.

… Yet, despite this, Twarp still remains strong in teamfights.

This was proven by Mesmer at the ToL, and now I feel I have to cosign to the fact that Twarp can really swing a teamfight in the Mesmers’ teams favor. With this build, able to so rapidly stack and share boons, TimeWarp makes for a massive splattering of icing on an already sweet cake. Seriously, I felt the tooth-decay creeping in right behind the endorphin rush everytime I dropped Twarp on my team after a boon storm

Things get a little dicey, however, when you compare the effect of Timewarp to Mass Invisibility and try to weigh the benefits versus the drawbacks, especially in a support build. Mass Invisibility is a very good elite on a relatively low cooldown. It synergizes best with Lyssa Runes for escaping (all condi cleanse + stealth!) and provides more frequent coverage for Stomps/Rezzes. Also, Mass Invis is the best elite for personal use since Twarp’s obscene cooldown encourages using it in a group setting whereas MI is an excellent “omg gfto” card.

Personally I think I’ll be using TimeWarp in tPvP, but Mass Invis everywhere else (especially WvW)

Thank You very much for sharing this build. I was looking for a S/F + Staff combination for PvP/WvW. Luckily I stumbled upon this thread. Are you still planning to update this thread in the future?

Thanks

Flinxe.1623:

Thank You very much for sharing this build. I was looking for a S/F + Staff combination for PvP/WvW. Luckily I stumbled upon this thread. Are you still planning to update this thread in the future?

Thanks

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Twas-Awesome/first#post4168988

Instead of soldiers, why not go knights for the prec?

@Flinxe: I’ve been playing the game less and less, so it’s doubtful updates will be very frequent. However I do still have every intention of pumping out a video at some point in my life. x.x

@Zelulose: I actually hadn’t tried Knights. It feels too middle-ground for me. I like Zerk because it gives me just enough damage to be a considerable threat, and Soldiers because it makes me able to confidently bunker a point versus 2 or more. I feel like Knights is too weak in either category to make the build effective.

@Chaos We were in a few matches together the other day and you mentioned you were running with this build (or some similar boonshare setup) quite often. It made me want to look up the build – it sounds pretty interesting for a team fight!

I was curious though, have you ever tried a variation using Sw/T-St and PU? It would offer great defense through stealth and more boon generation. Here’s a quick modification I did:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsfWnsISjaWqGGoB3aGB3YM9ENExJHZlSGwvA-TZhFwAAeAAMOCAULDMb/hEnCAA

I’m not for sure on the Inspiration Master trait. I also considered the glamour CD reduction. In practice I would most likely switch out Null Field and Feedback depending on what the opposing team seems to have more of (I hate slotting Feedback only to fight a bunch of melee people).

The major downsides I see here is a lack of control through the loss of Temporal Curtain and CI and no Blink, but I find Blink less needed with a stealth heavy build.

Would love to hear your opinions!

I’ve considered Sword/Torch-Staff for a number of reasons:

• On demand AoE Chaos Armor.
• Obscene amounts of Protection to share.

And I definitely could see it working out as a PU variant with a bit less damage but more team utility, but the problem is that such a build would be a vaaastly different playstyle, so it’d be hard to judge.

The way the build is currently set up I can do respectable damage, peel/control enemies, share boons rapidly, consistently, facetank 2+ opponents, and still have plenty of mobility to move from point to point. A lot of that comes from having the Focus equipped, and while the torch offers a better personal defense (and potential to stack protection) I feel it’s too much of a sacrifice of my current playstyle to trade the focus for it.

However your variant does free up 10 points (from Inspiration) that I’d likely punt into Domination for Signet reduction. Combined with a Greatsword rather than Staff, you may have something realllyyy interesting on your hands.

Agreed that the play style will change a lot. I saw the role being a difficult to kill force multiplier when you’re outnumbered. Just you and an ele defending vs 3? Ensure that he has perma protection while also protecting him from projectiles or helping his condi cleanse.

That’s true, but a build that isn’t capable of holding it’s own without an ally is not a complete build. Since most classes/builds are self-sufficient in one way or another, support is the least priority in the Damage/Support/Control trinity. Too much specializing on boonsharing and defense could very well end up being a detriment to the entire team and counterproductive to your supportive purpose.

In my opinion, a Mesmer has to be able to be a threat in a 1v1 and should be able to handle atleast some 1vX situations in order to be viable.

Annddd.. Videos! Finally! Also I’ve kicked up a youtube account that I’ll be building on with more GW content. Next up on the agenda is lockdown Mesmer.

—-

The “Boonstorm” performed by Alissah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQm1A5c2dRY ( A Chaos Maestro variant with 4 Altruism Runes & 2 Superior Water runes, thus the lack of Fury. Also, Omnomberry Creams (20% boon duration) are not in use here.

—-

Chaos Maestro in TeamQueue (PUG)

WASHING UP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-bGnIoj6pc

Yeah, these weren’t the most difficult opponents and probably another PUG like us, but I manage to go without a single death in this match and demonstrate some of the techniques outlined in this guide. I’m addicted to jump-dodging because in my head sylvari should flip around like elves. =P

BATTLE OF KYHO – NO SIGNET
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdlwrptCKIc

I died once here, and died quite stupidly. -_- I got a few nice 1v1s against a somewhat competent thief trying to rip me off the treb. Normally when I run this in Kyho I treb until I’m pulled from it and then decap/capture far before circling back to the treb but things went a little differently this match. I’m not sure but it seems near the end someone quit. x.x

BITTER (AND FOOLISH) DEFEAT!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMhUpb3_Qlw

Now I know it’s not common to see someone put up a video of them losing with the build, but I felt this particular match highlights what happens when you play the build half-kittened. Poor decision-making on my part directly led to my team’s defeat as I got all silly running into Gasmic. (Yes, the same Gasmic from the Mesmer vs Ele stories)

—-

HOTJOIN HEROICS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWOc-5m3t_g

I wish I had recorded sooner. I joined an outnumbered match for some practice and started kicking so much culo that I ended up flipping the recorder on to see what happens. I went undefeated this match (not too hard in hotjoin though) and there are some pretty good demonstrations as to how the build works.

Er.. quick question. I’m using MSI Afterburner to record, and I play on much higher quality than the videos are coming out. Does anyone else use this program and know a fix?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Er.. quick question. I’m using MSI Afterburner to record, and I play on much higher quality than the videos are coming out. Does anyone else use this program and know a fix?

It’s in the configuration. Settings > Video capture. Set the Frame size to whatever you want to record at. I do 1080p but you can go lower depending on your hardware capabilities. Also I set the quality to 60% because 100% really slows things down and you can’t notice enough of a difference anyway. This helps the frame rate immensely.

How about our videos chaos?

They didn’t make the cut. =[ While it was fun to run around owning people it was a bit toooo easy, and not enough demonstration of the boonsharing technique. But next time I’m on and you’re around I’ll send ya a message so we can get some dual lockdown gameplay in. I’ll go Confounding you go Chaotic? =P

@skcamow: Thanks dude!

I must be invisible or something. Also do you have any vids of me own….. I mean dueling you 1v1? I know you recorded some of them <3. It would be also be fun to see you use gs in one of your vids

So note that I’m not trying to disparage your play with this analysis.

I watched to the 5 minute mark of ‘Washing up baddies’. Though it was a bit difficult to tell at times due to potato resolution, at 5 minutes you had:

• Used your signet 2 times in total
• Managed a total of ~5 interrupts

This means you got 1 interrupt per minute, and many fights you didn’t get any interrupts at all. This right here is why I absolutely despise interrupts. Even in a build built around interrupts, with a player that loves playing interrupt builds and is good at them, you’re only able to get 1 interrupt per minute.

For anything larger than a 1v1/2v2, Interrupts. Do. Not. Work.

Edit: In the duel against the thief on Khylo, you got 1 interrupt the entire fight. You got a couple more in the second duel though.

Edit: Watched the ‘Bitter Defeat’ video. You got 11 interrupts, so just a hair over 1 per minute, and you used the signet 3 times + 1 time with no teammates in range. It just doesn’t work. You’re winning matches through pure shatter damage and playstyle, not through boon-sharing and definitely not because of interrupts.

The thing is pyro, chaos and I don’t play interrupt because its OP or the best spec available but because we enjoy the playstyle. I agree with you that interrupts are not very good (not even close to gw1) but I absolutely love playing it, and that’s enough for me and enough for chaos in his boonshare build. I mean, why else would we have made mind crush way back then hehe. It was a really unrefined build but man was it fun to play.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

They didn’t make the cut. =[ While it was fun to run around owning people it was a bit toooo easy, and not enough demonstration of the boonsharing technique. But next time I’m on and you’re around I’ll send ya a message so we can get some dual lockdown gameplay in. I’ll go Confounding you go Chaotic? =P

@skcamow: Thanks dude!

Can you just post it for the heck of it? and what do you mean by tooo easy? That sounds good chaos ill use CI for sure!

Fay.2357:

So note that I’m not trying to disparage your play with this analysis.

I watched to the 5 minute mark of ‘Washing up baddies’. Though it was a bit difficult to tell at times due to potato resolution, at 5 minutes you had:

• Used your signet 2 times in total
• Managed a total of ~5 interrupts

This means you got 1 interrupt per minute, and many fights you didn’t get any interrupts at all. This right here is why I absolutely despise interrupts. Even in a build built around interrupts, with a player that loves playing interrupt builds and is good at them, you’re only able to get 1 interrupt per minute.

For anything larger than a 1v1/2v2, Interrupts. Do. Not. Work.

Edit: In the duel against the thief on Khylo, you got 1 interrupt the entire fight. You got a couple more in the second duel though.

Edit: Watched the ‘Bitter Defeat’ video. You got 11 interrupts, so just a hair over 1 per minute, and you used the signet 3 times + 1 time with no teammates in range. It just doesn’t work. You’re winning matches through pure shatter damage and playstyle, not through boon-sharing and definitely not because of interrupts.

Out of due respect pyro, with the matter of interrupts and its aspects you mentioned, are you just talking about this build or interrupts in general?

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

So note that I’m not trying to disparage your play with this analysis.

I watched to the 5 minute mark of ‘Washing up baddies’. Though it was a bit difficult to tell at times due to potato resolution, at 5 minutes you had:

• Used your signet 2 times in total
• Managed a total of ~5 interrupts

This means you got 1 interrupt per minute, and many fights you didn’t get any interrupts at all. This right here is why I absolutely despise interrupts. Even in a build built around interrupts, with a player that loves playing interrupt builds and is good at them, you’re only able to get 1 interrupt per minute.

For anything larger than a 1v1/2v2, Interrupts. Do. Not. Work.

Edit: In the duel against the thief on Khylo, you got 1 interrupt the entire fight. You got a couple more in the second duel though.

Edit: Watched the ‘Bitter Defeat’ video. You got 11 interrupts, so just a hair over 1 per minute, and you used the signet 3 times + 1 time with no teammates in range. It just doesn’t work. You’re winning matches through pure shatter damage and playstyle, not through boon-sharing and definitely not because of interrupts.

Out of due respect pyro, with the matter of interrupts and its aspects you mentioned, are you just talking about this build or interrupts in general?

I’m talking interrupts in general.

This build has staff, focus, and diversion. The only other interrupts you could squeeze out would be imbued diversion and the mantra. Imbued diversion has problems with an interrupt build cause of the x/x/30/x/30 issue and DE, and the mantra is pretty much a dueling utility, not a team fight one. What I’m getting at is that this build more or less is the limit of mesmer aoe interrupt capability.

Despite that, it’s entirely unable to be useful with interrupts. Maybe if every single one of that 1 interrupt per minute was a clutch heal interrupt…but it wasn’t. In fact it was the opposite way. Many of those interrupts were just incidental interrupts from chaos storm or temporal curtain that did nothing more than stop a random attack and apply a short immob.

Now, interrupts in a dueling scenario can be very different. You don’t have random stability everywhere, you don’t have massive amounts of skill spam cluttering the screen, you don’t have surprise blinds blocking your skills. You can actually target and time your interrupts to make them work. This is why your phantasm interrupt build was actually highly effective, because it combined the single target nature of phantasms with skillful use of the single target nature mechanic of interrupts.

When you try to take that and expand it to a group though, it just doesn’t work. You can’t really see anything but the most obvious animations, and with the proliferation of asurans, you sometimes can’t even really see those. This means that you’re limited to just throwing out aoe interrupts and hoping they do something…and they generally don’t.

@Rylock: I understand that you and chaos and others find the interrupt playstyle really fun to play, and I see this as valid in small fights (2v2 or less). However, there is no such thing as a group interrupt playstyle. How can you call this interrupt play when you’re getting 1 interrupt per minute? It’s not even a matter of good or bad, it’s just not there. Hardly any interrupts = no interrupt playstyle to speak of. The only thing left is 30%+ of your build/traits being geared towards a mechanic that doesn’t work.

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

So note that I’m not trying to disparage your play with this analysis.

I watched to the 5 minute mark of ‘Washing up baddies’. Though it was a bit difficult to tell at times due to potato resolution, at 5 minutes you had:

• Used your signet 2 times in total
• Managed a total of ~5 interrupts

This means you got 1 interrupt per minute, and many fights you didn’t get any interrupts at all. This right here is why I absolutely despise interrupts. Even in a build built around interrupts, with a player that loves playing interrupt builds and is good at them, you’re only able to get 1 interrupt per minute.

For anything larger than a 1v1/2v2, Interrupts. Do. Not. Work.

Edit: In the duel against the thief on Khylo, you got 1 interrupt the entire fight. You got a couple more in the second duel though.

Edit: Watched the ‘Bitter Defeat’ video. You got 11 interrupts, so just a hair over 1 per minute, and you used the signet 3 times + 1 time with no teammates in range. It just doesn’t work. You’re winning matches through pure shatter damage and playstyle, not through boon-sharing and definitely not because of interrupts.

Out of due respect pyro, with the matter of interrupts and its aspects you mentioned, are you just talking about this build or interrupts in general?

I’m talking interrupts in general.

This build has staff, focus, and diversion. The only other interrupts you could squeeze out would be imbued diversion and the mantra. Imbued diversion has problems with an interrupt build cause of the x/x/30/x/30 issue and DE, and the mantra is pretty much a dueling utility, not a team fight one. What I’m getting at is that this build more or less is the limit of mesmer aoe interrupt capability.

Despite that, it’s entirely unable to be useful with interrupts. Maybe if every single one of that 1 interrupt per minute was a clutch heal interrupt…but it wasn’t. In fact it was the opposite way. Many of those interrupts were just incidental interrupts from chaos storm or temporal curtain that did nothing more than stop a random attack and apply a short immob.

Now, interrupts in a dueling scenario can be very different. You don’t have random stability everywhere, you don’t have massive amounts of skill spam cluttering the screen, you don’t have surprise blinds blocking your skills. You can actually target and time your interrupts to make them work. This is why your phantasm interrupt build was actually highly effective, because it combined the single target nature of phantasms with skillful use of the single target nature mechanic of interrupts.

When you try to take that and expand it to a group though, it just doesn’t work. You can’t really see anything but the most obvious animations, and with the proliferation of asurans, you sometimes can’t even really see those. This means that you’re limited to just throwing out aoe interrupts and hoping they do something…and they generally don’t.

Ahh. I get what you mean pyro. But what if the scenario’s like this:

Yes, group fight, I am running at interrupt build but my role is to shutdown one player, would it still be related to what you’re saying about interrupts? I mean for the boonshare yeah I get your point, but for shutting someone down, it is a different case right? since you only focus on 1 target?

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

So note that I’m not trying to disparage your play with this analysis.

I watched to the 5 minute mark of ‘Washing up baddies’. Though it was a bit difficult to tell at times due to potato resolution, at 5 minutes you had:

• Used your signet 2 times in total
• Managed a total of ~5 interrupts

This means you got 1 interrupt per minute, and many fights you didn’t get any interrupts at all. This right here is why I absolutely despise interrupts. Even in a build built around interrupts, with a player that loves playing interrupt builds and is good at them, you’re only able to get 1 interrupt per minute.

For anything larger than a 1v1/2v2, Interrupts. Do. Not. Work.

Edit: In the duel against the thief on Khylo, you got 1 interrupt the entire fight. You got a couple more in the second duel though.

Edit: Watched the ‘Bitter Defeat’ video. You got 11 interrupts, so just a hair over 1 per minute, and you used the signet 3 times + 1 time with no teammates in range. It just doesn’t work. You’re winning matches through pure shatter damage and playstyle, not through boon-sharing and definitely not because of interrupts.

Out of due respect pyro, with the matter of interrupts and its aspects you mentioned, are you just talking about this build or interrupts in general?

I’m talking interrupts in general.

This build has staff, focus, and diversion. The only other interrupts you could squeeze out would be imbued diversion and the mantra. Imbued diversion has problems with an interrupt build cause of the x/x/30/x/30 issue and DE, and the mantra is pretty much a dueling utility, not a team fight one. What I’m getting at is that this build more or less is the limit of mesmer aoe interrupt capability.

Despite that, it’s entirely unable to be useful with interrupts. Maybe if every single one of that 1 interrupt per minute was a clutch heal interrupt…but it wasn’t. In fact it was the opposite way. Many of those interrupts were just incidental interrupts from chaos storm or temporal curtain that did nothing more than stop a random attack and apply a short immob.

Now, interrupts in a dueling scenario can be very different. You don’t have random stability everywhere, you don’t have massive amounts of skill spam cluttering the screen, you don’t have surprise blinds blocking your skills. You can actually target and time your interrupts to make them work. This is why your phantasm interrupt build was actually highly effective, because it combined the single target nature of phantasms with skillful use of the single target nature mechanic of interrupts.

When you try to take that and expand it to a group though, it just doesn’t work. You can’t really see anything but the most obvious animations, and with the proliferation of asurans, you sometimes can’t even really see those. This means that you’re limited to just throwing out aoe interrupts and hoping they do something…and they generally don’t.

Ahh. I get what you mean pyro. But what if the scenario’s like this:

Yes, group fight, I am running at interrupt build but my role is to shutdown one player, would it still be related to what you’re saying about interrupts? I mean for the boonshare yeah I get your point, but for shutting someone down, it is a different case right? since you only focus on 1 target?

So how do you shut down that one player in a team fight? Let’s say it’s a warrior. Now let’s say that warrior is asuran. Being asuran, dodge, jump, jump dodge, earthshaker, and eviscerate all have nearly the same animation. You can deal with this to an extent in a 1v1, but when this asuran warrior is covered in flames and standing on top of a bunch of aoes and you can barely see their outline, how are you going to do this lockdown? Add to this random stability flying around from the bunker guard and it becomes close to impossible.

This scenario will happen with most classes, not just warriors. The pure amount of skill spam covering animations, that thief in the corner blinding you at unpredictable times, and stability when you don’t expect it makes it nearly impossible to effectively lock down even one single person in a team fight.

A 1v1/2v2 makes interrupts playable because it limits the amount of uncontrollable factors. It means less stability, less blinds, less skill spam, less animations, less of everything that artificially makes interrupts more difficult to pull off. It’s not just a target limit problem, it’s a problem inherent to what makes a team fight a team fight.

Fay.2357:

So note that I’m not trying to disparage your play with this analysis.

I watched to the 5 minute mark of ‘Washing up baddies’. Though it was a bit difficult to tell at times due to potato resolution, at 5 minutes you had:

• Used your signet 2 times in total
• Managed a total of ~5 interrupts

This means you got 1 interrupt per minute, and many fights you didn’t get any interrupts at all. This right here is why I absolutely despise interrupts. Even in a build built around interrupts, with a player that loves playing interrupt builds and is good at them, you’re only able to get 1 interrupt per minute.

For anything larger than a 1v1/2v2, Interrupts. Do. Not. Work.

Edit: In the duel against the thief on Khylo, you got 1 interrupt the entire fight. You got a couple more in the second duel though.

Edit: Watched the ‘Bitter Defeat’ video. You got 11 interrupts, so just a hair over 1 per minute, and you used the signet 3 times + 1 time with no teammates in range. It just doesn’t work. You’re winning matches through pure shatter damage and playstyle, not through boon-sharing and definitely not because of interrupts.

Dat potato resolution!

Hm, reading that back, “washing up baddies” sounds too arrogant even for me. o_O I’ll work on that title.

Anyways, while I see your point, and of course no offense taken, but I think you’re looking at the build from the wrong perspective. Despite grabbing Bountiful Interruption, this is NOT a lockdown build. The playstyle and goals are different, and so even despite having focus/staff I wasn’t using the build the same way I would for a lockdown build. I wasn’t looking for interrupts, I wasn’t using Diversion the way I would in a lockdown build, and I take Bountiful for A) those odd random interrupts. B) for interrupts from focus pulling clusters of enemies, Chaotic Interruption’s purpose here is to secure my Phantasm hits.

Other than that, my goal here is support. Null Field, Inspiration Signet, Pack runes, traited focus, mass invis, ect are all meant for a group support build, not an interrupt/shutdown build. What you’re describing is largely due to my lack of awareness; I still have to learn to pay more attention to different enemies in group fights (such as placing iWarden on engineers/rangers, where I place my curtain, ect) and react accordingly, it’s really easy to fall into the habits of my other build that’s more single-target focused.

Now, regarding the Washing Up video, keep in mind that it’s not just my signet that allows me to share boons. Phantasms, Pack Runes, Temporal Curtain and Chaos Storm all contribute, and even then I’m very judicious to when I pop the signet. In that video, I only popped the signet when I felt it was necessary otherwise I preferred to enjoy the passive (which isn’t as bad as people think: random Aegis, Protection, Fury, and Swiftness among others are always welcome). If the enemy is outnumbered or the fight is already in our favor there’s no need.

As for the “narrow defeat” video, yeah I admit I made plenty of mistakes but that was the whole point of me linking it: So that people can see what I do wrong and -hopefully- think of ways that could’ve gone better. I screwed up my boonshares, I spent too much time 1v1 or 1vX rather than fighting with my team, and at the end there that signet I popped… was supposed to be Mass Invis but my finger slipped. x.x

Regarding lockdown builds, they work in team fights. I’m tempted to say “Supcutie, Misha and Helseth endorsed lockdown builds at one point, which speaks towards their viability.” but that feels like a weak argument, and besides .. I’d rather just prove
you wrong myself! >=P

“For anything larger than a 1v1/2v2, Interrupts. Do. Not. Work.”
“You’re winning matches through pure shatter damage and playstyle, not through boon-sharing and *definitely not because of interrupts.:*

Challenge accepted my friend.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I take Bountiful for A) those odd random interrupts. for interrupts from focus pulling clusters of enemies, Chaotic Interruption’s purpose here is to secure my Phantasm hits.

I can see how bountiful can be a nice damage boost now and then from those things. Unfortunately, chaotic interruption never actually secured any phantasm hits for you. If this isn’t really an interrupt build, then I’d ditch CI for staff cooldowns, since you’ll probably get far more mileage out of that.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Now, regarding the Washing Up video, keep in mind that it’s not just my signet that allows me to share boons. Phantasms, Pack Runes, Temporal Curtain and Chaos Storm all contribute, and even then I’m very judicious to when I pop the signet. In that video, I only popped the signet when I felt it was necessary otherwise I preferred to enjoy the passive (which isn’t as bad as people think: random Aegis, Protection, Fury, and Swiftness among others are always welcome). If the enemy is outnumbered or the fight is already in our favor there’s no need.

Fair enough, you definitely provide boons in other ways than the signet…but when you’re using the signet so infrequently, could you not get more overall use out of say…portal/pDisenchanter/feedback/decoy?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Regarding lockdown builds, they work in team fights. I’m tempted to say “Supcutie, Misha and Helseth endorsed lockdown builds at one point, which speaks towards their viability.” but that feels like a weak argument, and besides .. I’d rather just prove
you wrong myself! >=P

If I recall correctly, the main point at which lockdown builds were widespread was during the period of chaos storm + CS bug. While the 20/20/30 staff/gs build does take several interrupt traits, it’s aimed at interrupting rezzng/stomping as opposed to other skills (which is why power block is completely useless for that build type). Rezzing/stomping are the 2 actions that are always well telegraphed through animation, and this lends itself nicely to CI immobs followed by immediate shatter burst boosted by BI might. Note, however, that this is a shatter build that gains utility/power through use of some interrupts, not an interrupt focused build.

This is a kittened question but how do you do the flip jump on the video? is it sylvari specific? haha. and Chaos why do you keep jumping? :p

@sticker Jump dodging is used so that you can cover more distance with a dodge then just a regular dodge without jumping. Its usually better then just regular dodges since you can dodge out of aoes easier.