Guild Wars 2

The elite skill of the elementalist’s specialization, Tempest, is: “Rebound!” (Elite) – Cause nearby allies to have 25% faster skill recharge. Steps on the toes of the mesmer’s elite specialization, Chronomancer, special effect: Alacrity – 66% Skill Recharge Rate.

With the elementalist and very likely the tempest as well, having superior dps to mesmer and chronomancer. It will further diminish the unique role of the chornomancer. For an existing example, look at the Guardian’s Wall of Reflect and the new(ish) elite skill “Feel My Wrath!”. While a mesmer can both reflect and provide quickness (and even slow) better than a guardian can, a guardian is more desirable mainly since he has superior dps.

Hence, while a chronomancer can provide superior recharge rate for his team, he’ll be less desirable than a tempest with much better dps. Which can still provide quicker recharge, albeit not as much. It is a much unneeded competition, that can only harm the chornomancer.

Disclaimer: I main a mesmer. I wrote this with only PvE in mind. Anyone who also mains a mesmer and plays fractals, know where I’m coming from.

I just checked the article. While Tempest is looking cool as hell, check the skill again:

• Rebound: Causes the next skill to have a 25% reduced recharge.

Its an elite (so likely longish cooldown) and only affects the next skill. Alacrity is a much stronger effect that is more easily applied.

Rebound will be strong, but only if you’re calling out the skill before using it, otherwise it’ll be wasted. Alacrity on the other hand is visible for everyone that has the buff, and with Mimic/Continuum + Well of Recall (and other skills/traits), I guess you can manage a pretty high uptime as well. Plus you can lower your own Alacrity CDs with Alacrity. Cray-zay.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I just checked the article. While Tempest is looking cool as hell, check the skill again:

• Rebound: Causes the next skill to have a 25% reduced recharge.

Its an elite (so likely longish cooldown) and only affects the next skill. Alacrity is a much stronger effect that is more easily applied.

Thank you. I took my info from Dulfy. I didn’t even think to verify the information. It looks less threatening now, but without knowing the CD, it’s still a very strong concern.

I’m worried. And not without a good reason. Mesmer isn’t in a good spot in Fractals & Dungeons. Chronomancer may change that with Alacrity. Anything that threatens that, shakes my resolve.

Edit:

Rebound will be strong, but only if you’re calling out the skill before using it, otherwise it’ll be wasted. Alacrity on the other hand is visible for everyone that has the buff, and with Mimic/Continuum + Well of Recall (and other skills/traits), I guess you can manage a pretty high uptime as well. Plus you can lower your own Alacrity CDs with Alacrity. Cray-zay.

It’s not hard to call skills. You just CTRL+Mouse Click it. Plus, we have no reason to believe that it won’t have an icon. Just like any other special effect has. e.g. the warrior’s Empower Allies.

There’s no doubt in my mind that the chronomacer will be better at reducing CDs for his team. However, will it be enough to warrant the massive dps loss? Right now, for quickness(+slow even) and reflects, the answer is resounding no.

Mesmer isn’t in a good spot in fractals and dungeons? Pardon me? Most guards I know fear that the mesmer is replacing him. Mesmer has never been in a better position than now.

btt: I don’t think this skill will ruin us. We are anyway in a pt for a different reason than the ele and overall I think it’s a nice skill, but 25% for the next skill? Maybe it will even have some restrictions like “no elite / no heal skills” or something. It’s too early to make a big talk about it.

Guys, they said they wanted to increase frontline support for eles….

Let that sink in, Anet, thinks eles need to offer more frontline support.

D/X ele…

ele…more support…

I’m not worried in the slightest.

The skill is actually pretty weak until you realize that the important part was that it’s not target-limited.

It’s GW2’s first raid support skill other than walls, kinda. Individually however, 25% faster recharge on one skill is tiny.

depends on the skill and the cd – as i said – it’s too early

I’m looking forward to running an interrupt build against some tempests.

Power block + Magic Bullet > Overload

Actually, to be honest, the Tempest Elite seems to complement the Chronomancer very well. 25% CD reduction on a Phantasm summon means we get three damaging Phantasms up faster. Combine that with Alacrity, Chronophantasma, and Persistence of Memory… We could potentially do a lot of shattering without much Phantasm DPS downtime.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

I’m looking forward to running an interrupt build against some tempests.

Power block + Magic Bullet > Overload

With them getting Defiance bar while in Earth, that may prove difficult. But we’ll see more on how it works this week.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

I’m looking forward to running an interrupt build against some tempests.

Power block + Magic Bullet > Overload

I don’t think they will use the overload very frequently cuz it gonna affect their overall attunement rotation. From its function, it seems to be designed more for a team fight scenario.
When they use it, they will probably cover it with some stability or use the earth one more since it gives defiance. The earth one also seems like the strongest since it does AOE Immob.

phokus.8934:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

I’m looking forward to running an interrupt build against some tempests.

Power block + Magic Bullet > Overload

With them getting Defiance bar while in Earth, that may prove difficult. But we’ll see more on how it works this week.

As I understood it from what the blurb said, that defiance bar was only while channeling the earth overload.

8 new weapon skills, powerful looking shouts with interesting effects, new way to use their class mechanic.

Still waiting for chronomancers ‘just as good’ anet…

This ironic, since right now the elementalist forums are being pretty upset over tempest. I’m personally excited for it though since I have howler and it looks like it will be a fusion of staff Ele level control and D/D ele bruiser gameplay.

Mainy of them seem to think that the overcharges will get constantly interupted, but I don’t believe that. I mean how many of you had to charge mantras in the middle of a teamfight? Did you get constantly interrupted during that channel when you were smart about when and where to do it?

nearlight.3064:

when you were smart about when and where to do it?

Aka, in stealth and off to the side. Eles generally play right in the middle, and don’t have stealth. They have stability of course, but that’s limited.

Fay.2357:

nearlight.3064:

when you were smart about when and where to do it?

Aka, in stealth and off to the side. Eles generally play right in the middle, and don’t have stealth. They have stability of course, but that’s limited.

Yeah that makes sense. The staff/gs builds used in tourneys right now havent really used stealth at all, but being able to use staff 2 while charging them is really helpful.

Thats why I hope eles will have some reliable way to cover their casts that isn’t on a long cooldown, since I think its a really cool spec, and more importantly the howler I have on my necro would look so hawt on my norn ele. But yeah, I think all the elite specs we’ve seen have been at least cool in traits, if not skills.

nearlight.3064:

Fay.2357:

nearlight.3064:

when you were smart about when and where to do it?

Aka, in stealth and off to the side. Eles generally play right in the middle, and don’t have stealth. They have stability of course, but that’s limited.

Yeah that makes sense. The staff/gs builds used in tourneys right now havent really used stealth at all, but being able to use staff 2 while charging them is really helpful.

Thats why I hope eles will have some reliable way to cover their casts that isn’t on a long cooldown, since I think its a really cool spec, and more importantly the howler I have on my necro would look so hawt on my norn ele. But yeah, I think all the elite specs we’ve seen have been at least cool in traits, if not skills.

They will need stability to cover the overload except for earth one.
But I really don’t think the overload skills will be used very frequently. They will be more saved for some crucial situations.
Also, stability can come from teammates. I can see them very useful in WvW frontline groups.
Anet mostly want to get professions to be able to do something new with specialization. Just like necromancers, eles are already the important WvW backline roles. Now simliar to reaper, they will be able to take the frontline role as well.

Thing is it has to offer more than current ele weapons do.

Staff has amazing team support, water fields, lowish cool down blast in earth, AoE CC both hard and soft and large AoE damage.

D/X people already go into water/arcana and so has heals and cleanses as well as AoE protection to those around them and swiftness. That’s without mentioning focus giving a lot of defence like swirling winds, ranged CC and an invuln better than endure pain.

The reason eles are annoyed is its giving them something they already have effectively but arguably worse from the preview. The shout elite just looks bad 25% off say a timewarp is kitten but off other class elites you’re looking at maybe 20s at the cost of your own elite doing pretty much nothing.

P.S. Just because you run staff doesn’t mean you need to sit at max range, a good lee is in the thick of it on staff when needed.

If you’re complaining about the skill reduction skill, the way I interpreted it was it instantly reduces the recharge to 75% and only affects utility abilities. Since we’re all on the speculation train, that’s just how I feel it works, meaning it’s like a weak team Mimic. Even if it affects Elites and Weapon Skills (not healing skills, pls anet), it shouldn’t be too, too stronk (if it affects weapon skills, you’ll not only screw over dps rotations but also punish auto attacking or miscasting and would require a tonnnnn of coordination).

People are just knee-jerking right now. I’m interested in seeing what the skills mean for Ele. They can be extremely support-oriented, but cause the Ele to lose damage (especially dat stunbreak).

It says next ability. Therefore, I would assume it would effect elite skills. Also, as of right now, I would not call it a great trait that kills off the chronomancer. However, as far as I am aware, we do not know what the cool down time of this skill is. And having it be an elite skill does NOT mean it will have a long cool down time. What would happen if the skill had a cool down time of 10 seconds? Then we may have something to complain about. However, we don’t have any reason to complain about this skill right now because we are lacking information.

However, this does means if there is a tempest, guardian, and mesmer in a dungeon than feel my wrath could have a cool down of 22.5 seconds (without any additional buffs that are out there) while time warp will have its same cool down of 180 seconds (time warp can’t benefit from cool down reduction buffs). That is 5 seconds of quickness per 22.5 seconds of cool down = .2222 sec quick/sec cooldown while the mesmer will have 10sec/180sec or .0555 sec quick/sec cooldown. Even if you are a chronomancer and can pop time warp twice with continuum shift, this brings the quickness per sec cool down up to only .1111 sec quick/sec cool down. Therefore, you STILL get more quickness per second of cool down from the guardian. The absolute best situation for the chronomancer is if they only pop time warp once when in continuum split and save time warp for another rainy day since continuum split has a 60 sec cool down. This brings it up to 10 sec of quickness/ 60 sec cool down = .16666 sec quick/sec cooldown. Therefore, when a chronomancer uses their f5 specialization, their elite will still provide less quickness per cool down time than the guardian (.2222>.16666). That is and they are STILL called a chronomancer. At the same time, a guardian will produce more dps and have a specialization that is able to provide more damage instead of trying to make up for a huge gap in cool down that you will never cross.

Everyone probably knows that I am upset about this. The main reason is not just that the guardian’s elite (without the tempest) will provide the same quickness as a traited chronomancer with only one button click instead of a whole set up regiment. It is that you should have a choice of being a chronomancer of mesmer and still be welcome in dungeons with a random group. As of right now, the guardian will always be accepted, while its obvious to me that if you are not running prepared speed runs with portal, the mesmer will not. You can read my other replies on this topic as well. It is quite obvious that I was upset when writing them. However, the message has not changed. I just think its ridicules for the guardian and dragon hunter to both provide more quickness with their elite skill than the chronomancer is capable of, while with the mesmer there is no comparison.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Feel-my-wrath-1st-impressions/first#post5220904
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Chronomancer-is-doomed/first#post5221870

“With the elementalist and very likely the tempest as well, having superior dps to mesmer and chronomancer”

Are you sure? mesmer has much higher burst dps now by alot – this includes burning speed + fire grab doesn’t come close to a mesmer shatter combo and esp with stun and when comparing lightning whip (highest auto dps) to gs autos mesmer GS is higher , as well as sword. I would say ele has more control and mobility though in those element sets.

I edited this because I was comparing cele ele dps to zerker mesmer dps and of course, zerker mesmer will have more obviously because of this. Zerker ele still falls short but not by much and you couldn’t run zerker ele anyway because you have no survivability with zerker as an ele compared to mesmers being able to run zerker amulet.

This was done in PvP.

It’s also worth pointing out that in PvE staff ele with fire, air and water doesn’t just blow other classes away, it blows them out of the atmosphere. I dunno how thief fares but mesmer, warrior, 3 eles looks like the speed run comp now.

blitzkrieg.2451:

“With the elementalist and very likely the tempest as well, having superior dps to mesmer and chronomancer”

Are you sure? mesmer has much higher burst dps now by alot – this includes burning speed + fire grab doesn’t come close to a mesmer shatter combo and esp with stun and when comparing lightning whip (highest auto dps) to gs autos mesmer GS is higher , as well as sword. I would say ele has more control and mobility though in those element sets.

I edited this because I was comparing cele ele dps to zerker mesmer dps and of course, zerker mesmer will have more obviously because of this. Zerker ele still falls short but not by much and you couldn’t run zerker ele anyway because you have no survivability with zerker as an ele compared to mesmers being able to run zerker amulet.

This was done in PvP.

This is discussing from a PvE point of view. Dps is not burst, and burst is totally irrelevant in PvE. But even then, fresh air ele has higher potential burst than standard shatter Mesmer does, since mobs sit still and don’t move out of things like churning earth and dragon’s tooth.

Attempting to argue that Mesmer dps is even in the same realm as ele dps is the height of foolishness. Nobody with more than a day of experience with PvE groups disputes the absolute superiority of ele dps, which is why this discussion is about the potential utility that tempest is getting.

Ah yes, true .. Sorry! PVE for sure ele with FGS is much higher DPS.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Ah yes, true .. Sorry! PVE for sure ele with FGS is much higher DPS.

Ele doing nothing but pressing 2 and 1 while in staff fire does more damage than Mesmer could hope to do even under perfectly ideal conditions. FGS has nothing to do with it.

Fay.2357:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Ah yes, true .. Sorry! PVE for sure ele with FGS is much higher DPS.

Ele doing nothing but pressing 2 and 1 while in staff fire does more damage than Mesmer could hope to do even under perfectly ideal conditions. FGS has nothing to do with it.

This is pretty much any class besides warrior w/ gs though, im not sure the answer is buffing mesmer dmg more so nerfing/tuning down ele dmg in s/f – staff variants. Of course you kill builds in pvp doing so, which is what the game is balanced off of usually. How would you approach it?

blitzkrieg.2451:

Fay.2357:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Ah yes, true .. Sorry! PVE for sure ele with FGS is much higher DPS.

Ele doing nothing but pressing 2 and 1 while in staff fire does more damage than Mesmer could hope to do even under perfectly ideal conditions. FGS has nothing to do with it.

This is pretty much any class besides warrior w/ gs though, im not sure the answer is buffing mesmer dmg more so nerfing/tuning down ele dmg in s/f – staff variants. Of course you kill builds in pvp doing so, which is what the game is balanced off of usually. How would you approach it?

Well, just read the rest of the thread we’re currently in…

The Mesmer niche is in providing (or is at least supposed to be) unique utility and mechanics to a group, not raw dps like an ele. The problem is that the tempest elite along with the absurd guardian shout seem to be rather significantly stepping on the mesmer’s toes for their role in a party.

blitzkrieg, when did you last do PvE in this game? FGS hasn’t been a thing for a very long time. Warrior with GS is now a beast due to the ability to take 3 full lines and the change to berserkers power. I mean warrior has even made might stacking eles completely redundant not just mostly redundant like when they gave up huge amounts of personal DPS for it.

Anyway, I don’t think ele is going to be stepping on mesmer toes. Mesmer does it easier and better and an ele is better utilised nuking things with meteor and frostbow in water. 20s CD on meteor, lol, way to make ele’s totally superior.

You’re not supposed to put the effects against eachother, put them together instead. Man, that combo!

I agree completely. Time Warp is completely outclassed by “Feel My Wrath!” in every way, and in a group that can coordinate, “Rebound!” makes Alacrity useless.

I’d hoped that Chronomancer might bring enough useful utility that Mesmers will be a desired profession in PvE despite our low-ish damage, but as with the existing situation, that’s just not going to happen.

I doubt Rebound is going to make Alacrity useless.

Think about it… your next skill is now at 75% cooldown. If you maintain Alacrity, it drops to 50% cooldown.

Alacrity is still potentially stronger than Rebound since it drops the cooldown of a spell by 66% (if maintained for 66% of the spells cooldown). Rebound does not need to be maintained and…

You know what, think of Rebound as Mimic. Does Mimic make Alacrity useless? Does it outshadow the concept of Alacrity? Do we not need to become Chronomancers because we have Mimic?

Now that everything about Tempest has been revealed, yes Chrono is outclassed. Ele can now pretty much do everything we can to support better on top of what it could do before.

Mimic only affects the mesmers utility skills. Rebound can potentially affect any ability of all allies. Its a completely different ball game. Quickness wasn’t a unique skill to the mesmer before the patch. Lots of classes could potentially gain quickness. However, time warp was the only ability that supplied it to allies. Same reason banner of strength is important. It provides a boost to allies, not just the warrior. A mimic that could be used for all allied skills would make alacrity nearly worthless if mimic had a lower cool down and was the skill of a different class that had a lot higher dps. Its not just a problem of rebound being potentially stronger than alacrity. Its if the difference between alacrity and rebound will be enough to make up for the huge dps difference. We have to remember, if you are a mesmer with shield you are going to have an even lower dps than the current mesmer pve meta.

The one positive things with alacrity is that it affects all CD, not just the one next skill. But yes, except for possibly the well, there is not enough sources of shared alacrity and they are too weak. The developers said they were afraid of meddling with CD recharge. Actually, for an elite skill, I would argue that rebound is underwhelming…

Ithamir.5928:

The elite skill of the elementalist’s specialization, Tempest, is: “Rebound!” (Elite) – Cause nearby allies to have 25% faster skill recharge. Steps on the toes of the mesmer’s elite specialization, Chronomancer, special effect: Alacrity – 66% Skill Recharge Rate.

With the elementalist and very likely the tempest as well, having superior dps to mesmer and chronomancer. It will further diminish the unique role of the chornomancer. For an existing example, look at the Guardian’s Wall of Reflect and the new(ish) elite skill “Feel My Wrath!”. While a mesmer can both reflect and provide quickness (and even slow) better than a guardian can, a guardian is more desirable mainly since he has superior dps.

Hence, while a chronomancer can provide superior recharge rate for his team, he’ll be less desirable than a tempest with much better dps. Which can still provide quicker recharge, albeit not as much. It is a much unneeded competition, that can only harm the chornomancer.

Disclaimer: I main a mesmer. I wrote this with only PvE in mind. Anyone who also mains a mesmer and plays fractals, know where I’m coming from.

the Tempest is 60seconds and is no where near actually threatening imho, the Tempest has many flaws, one being its Overload mechanic is pretty weird to deal with as it locks them out of areas etc etc.

Also i dont think many will use it cause of the fact its a 1 time thing every 60seconds, it’ll be useful to a warrior if no mesmer is around to help, but i feel overall the chronomancer will be stronger then the Tempest.

Silverkey.2078:

Actually, for an elite skill, I would argue that rebound is underwhelming…

The Elementalists are certainly arguing that!

Levetty.1279:

Now that everything about Tempest has been revealed, yes Chrono is outclassed. Ele can now pretty much do everything we can to support better on top of what it could do before.

I disagree, we are moving into a era where the game has both PvE and PvP different weapon sets must suit different game modes to perserve balance, thats just a limitation u have to accept while Demanding PvE in the game, this will happen, U will prolly use chronomancers wells, but not the weapon set in pve.. u dont need survcivability you need DPS..

I mean sure u do to a extent but i feel like giving up two weapon skills for blocks just wont be effective Outside support roles, which elementalist will prolly take the majority of for healing purposes, Alacrity is there with or without the shield so theres no need for u to drop ur Damage for the Shield, the Shield will prolly see More pvp use for its sustain.

Same as tempest will see more PvE use then PvP as PvP is much more unpredictable making Overloads not so useful most of the time not to mention the lockouts and 5 seconds in 1 attunements makes it impossible to use in some situations.

this is a Pve/PvP limitation and its in Every MMO which supports both styles of play, its something we arnt used to but now must accept.