Guild Wars 2

I was just wondering if anyone has tried this. It would b a standard 20/20/0/0/30 shatter build, just with torch offhand. I feel like it would add some more survivability in the form of stealth as well as mitigating one the the shatter mesmer’s biggest weaknesses, conditions, without sacrificing precious utility slots. I though it also might be good for WvW roaming where stealth = god. I know it wouldn’t be nearly as good without PU, but still… Has anyone tried this out?

I’ve been using torch in my “Eccho-rupt” build. It does help a with the condition removal and for charging mantra’s in a fight. In a “shatter” build, it “might” help.

But shatters builds are for burst, you’d be giving up quite a bit of “burst” using torch instead of pistol/sword offhand. So I’m not sure the trade off would be worth it. Just my opinion, others may think differently.

I don’t think the condition removal would be enough to make it worthwhile – beyond getting rid of that poison to heal or something – even in that case I’d prefer mantra of resolve or something in a utility slot.

Having said that I’m sure some people must play like this with it – have a go and let us know what you find out.

When I roam with my thief guild-mate I sometimes will run 10/30/0/0/30 (my standard shatter set up) with zerker armor and Sw/T & Staff. It’s honestly a really fun set up and well worth messing around with. Only thing is to note that your damage will mostly come from BF and shatters, so playing close and crafty with stealth is key.

Shatter is so versatile, it’s why I have multiple copies of all weapons in zerker to mix into my set up just to do something different. The burst is always there, just different ways of going about it. Playing sense release and I never get tired of playing glass cannon shatter.

It’s ultimately not a good build because the amount of investment you put in just to get stealth and condi removal from Torch (neither of which is particularly great) just conflicts too much with Shatter builds. Not to mention, iMage is absolutely godawful.

Arganthium.5638:

It’s ultimately not a good build because the amount of investment you put in just to get stealth and condi removal from Torch (neither of which is particularly great) just conflicts too much with Shatter builds. Not to mention, iMage is absolutely godawful.

Hmmmm… well, the investment is just one trait (Domination Adept traiting the torch, and that trait slot isn’t really critical to a shatter build anyway), and while I agree completely that iMage is bad, phantasm damage isn’t really a priority in a shatter build. I don’t think that I would run torch in a shatter build, but that would be my personal preference rather than it not being a good build.

^Agreed, torch synergises nicely with shattering. Whether it’s worth traiting for is another matter.

Dhampyr.2104:

Arganthium.5638:

It’s ultimately not a good build because the amount of investment you put in just to get stealth and condi removal from Torch (neither of which is particularly great) just conflicts too much with Shatter builds. Not to mention, iMage is absolutely godawful.

Hmmmm… well, the investment is just one trait (Domination Adept traiting the torch, and that trait slot isn’t really critical to a shatter build anyway), and while I agree completely that iMage is bad, phantasm damage isn’t really a priority in a shatter build. I don’t think that I would run torch in a shatter build, but that would be my personal preference rather than it not being a good build.

It’s not just the trait, it’s the weapon set as well. Torch has no synergy whatsoever with Shattering, but it can work very well with PU. Almost entirely exclusively, virtually every stealth build in the game is a dedicated stealth build. You either play knowing that you’re never (or almost never) going to go into stealth, or you play where stealth is a primary defensive and offensive mechanic. Stealth just doesn’t work well with Shattering; Shatter builds focus on a constant stream of damage output with a few spikes in between, whereas Stealth builds, of all sorts, use stealth either as an extremely powerful defensive mechanic (like PU Mesmer, where you’re constantly generating defensive boons while stealthed) or an extremely powerful offensive mechanic (just about any D/X thief). I just can’t see this build getting much of anything from stealth here. It certainly can’t be used offensively, but the defensive options are pretty lackluster as well- a single 3s Stealth usually isn’t going to get you out of trouble, not by itself, anyways. It just seems like a waste of two weapon skills that could be covered by one, maybe two utilities anyways.

^What? Stealth shatter works just fine – I’m assuming you’ve seen Vash or Seven’s videos using the torch with shatter. I’m posting from a phone so can’t find other examples.

Concealing a burst, giving yourself breathing room, blind, blast finisher (nice to combo with staff chaos storm), little bit of added damage on exiting stealth… I use it all the time in my medium armour shatter setup.

Torch shatter builds can be effective and quite devious due to the stealth and surprising prestige burst out of stealth. Vash is one of the better players I’ve seen to use Torch/shatter. Here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3fUhFuUP-E

There are a few more on his youtube channel you can browse through. He provides helpful hints here and there on using stealth to your advantage in a shatter spec.

Torch paired with sword is great for a shatter build. Anyone saying it doesn’t synergize well probably just hasn’t tried it. Prestige is really nice for setting up the shatter and gives a good amount of additional burst when you come out of it (ideally timed so the target is immobilized by your sword #3).

As for the iMage not being good… It seems to make fine shatter fuel to me.

skcamow.3527:

Torch shatter builds can be effective and quite devious due to the stealth and surprising prestige burst out of stealth. Vash is one of the better players I’ve seen to use Torch/shatter. Here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3fUhFuUP-E

There are a few more on his youtube channel you can browse through. He provides helpful hints here and there on using stealth to your advantage in a shatter spec.

Yeah, definitely one of the better torch shatter users I’ve seen videos of, his videos are excellent.

Here’s one of Seven’s which also illustrates torch nicely, and that’s when prestige was channeled so a lot easier to use now – for example covering mantra of resolve recharge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS8iV_Coi2c

Purple Wing also uses torch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYvIBpN0LQU

Remember prestige scales very well regardless of enemy number. The only other offhand which scales well in 1vX is the focus, and considering the state of the iwarlock and the delay on curtain pull, I would argue torch is very attractive at the moment.

Only pure phantasm builds would not work well with the torch, for obvious reasons.

There is only one thing to find out in this thread – is cleansing conflagration worth it in a shatter build.
Personally I would find 10/20/10 with blink cooldown, 10/30/0 with sword and blink range, or 0/20/20 with staff cooldown, or 20/20/0 with boon removal all to be more useful than traiting torch.
But to the OP – try it out and see how it goes.

Traiting torch over shattered concentration? Not worth it IMO. Torch is fine in a shatter build and with the bit of power damage Pestige does can lead to some wicked shatters but doesnt need to be traited. Neither the cooldown or condi removal is worth losing out on the best boonstripping in the game, Shattered Concentration makes you much more valuable than a traited torch would.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Traiting torch over shattered concentration? Not worth it IMO. Torch is fine in a shatter build and with the bit of power damage Pestige does can lead to some wicked shatters but doesnt need to be traited. Neither the cooldown or condi removal is worth losing out on the best boonstripping in the game, Shattered Concentration makes you much more valuable than a traited torch would.

I think this kinda depends on the format. For PvP I agree fully but for WvW I might find more value by traiting the torch. I would definitely play with both to see the difference.

skcamow.3527:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Traiting torch over shattered concentration? Not worth it IMO. Torch is fine in a shatter build and with the bit of power damage Pestige does can lead to some wicked shatters but doesnt need to be traited. Neither the cooldown or condi removal is worth losing out on the best boonstripping in the game, Shattered Concentration makes you much more valuable than a traited torch would.

I think this kinda depends on the format. For PvP I agree fully but for WvW I might find more value by traiting the torch. I would definitely play with both to see the difference.

Truth. I missed the “solo roaming” bit. In that case, yeah it may actually be pretty worthwhile.

Sensotix has run this build in the past. It’s quite effective.

I’ve been running Sw/T + GS shatter (20/20/0/0/30) for a few months now and it’s awesome. Prestige adds a boost to your shatter damage and if you sync the hit with Mirror Blade→Shatter→Mind Spike you can hit some nice clean bursts without iLeap giving everything away. Stealth in general is very strong for repositioning.

For the OP, I switch traits very often on the fly depending on solo/team scenarios. For solo, I would recommend trained torch and in some cases condi removal on top of that as well since otherwise you’ve got no removal on your swap weapon. For most team fights, the boon strip is an absolute game changer – if I can rely on team mates (eg eles/guardians) for major condi removal then Shattered Concentration will help clean protection off targets for bigger spikes.

I’ve been running Cleansing Conflagration in my shatter builds for months and still use it, unless i’m up against a guardian or ele.

Here’s the build i’m currently using:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgQQNAR8flwzipXUzmGb9ICqHYH49dkU0avWJF22FC-jUCBoewYjBi+IQEBwJPFRjtMsIasabYKXDRWFDVKgRFGB-w

I currently don’t have the ressources to swap out the cavalier pieces for zerker and wil probably change the celestial weapons for zerker as well when the critdmg nerf hits. Might be, i’ll even swap to Speed runes if they nerf the crit dmg on Traveler too hard.