Guild Wars 2

forum bug again

im almost certain anet wont touch many problems we listed here.

most like number changes .

Remember when they buffed Shattered strength and then a day later nerfed it and went groveling to the PvP community for forgivness because they dared buff Mesmer.

Don’t expect Mirage to get any kind of fixes.

mortrialus.3062:

I mean is it really that much more powerful than Chronomancer’s Chronophantasma?

It’d actually be significantly weaker. While it decreases ramp-up time we have plenty tools to deal with that already, while Chronophantasma also makes your phantasms better able to “tank” damage. Two phantasms would just die in the same amount of hits due to cleave/AE damage, two summoned in succession need twice as many hits to bring down.

Sodeni.6041:

I seriously don’t know why they didn’t make a beta weekend ~2-3 months before release so they would have time to fix the specs.

Because it wasn’t a beta test, it was a PR event to generate hype for the release.

I…Always just sustained illusions when I needed them sustained and shatters them when I wanted to shatter, since it isn’t hard to put up clones to fill the set while waiting for phantasms to recharge. I never got the sense of contradiction people are discussing. Dueling and Illusions feel like a natural pairing with Mirage for a power build, giving it extra Illusions and increased melee damage alongside nearly permanent vigor from pairing Critical Infusion with Nomad’s endurance. Maintaining Illusions and Phantasms is fairly simple with their reduced recharge, making shatters less worrisome and giving more ready access to interrupts/stuns. I’ve never really been good at coming up with Condition builds, but it seems like the Staff and Axe/Pistol or Torch would work pretty well for weaving a lot of conditions and buffs into place while taking advantage of Mirage Mirrors.

To me, Mirage feels a lot like how sneak attack thieves play, only with a different kind of stealth mechanic and a duration short enough to force you to keep pressure high. The raw numbers need some tweaking, it seems, but I’m frankly looking forward to the spec.

Mercurias.1826:

I…Always just sustained illusions when I needed them sustained and shatters them when I wanted to shatter, since it isn’t hard to put up clones to fill the set while waiting for phantasms to recharge. I never got the sense of contradiction people are discussing.

I hate when people who obviously don’t play Mesmer come here to try and say everything is fine.

Yeah just use clones to fill up the slots while you wait for the massive cooldowns, that will help your damage.

Thief forums are over that way.

Levetty.1279:

Mercurias.1826:

I…Always just sustained illusions when I needed them sustained and shatters them when I wanted to shatter, since it isn’t hard to put up clones to fill the set while waiting for phantasms to recharge. I never got the sense of contradiction people are discussing.

I hate when people who obviously don’t play Mesmer come here to try and say everything is fine.

Yeah just use clones to fill up the slots while you wait for the massive cooldowns, that will help your damage.

Thief forums are over that way.

He didn’t say he used clones for his damage, he said he spawned clones while waiting for phantasms, which is hardly an uncommon thing to do, especially if you’re running dueling since your illusions apply bleed, and 0 condi bleed damage is better than no damage.

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Mercurias.1826:

I…Always just sustained illusions when I needed them sustained and shatters them when I wanted to shatter, since it isn’t hard to put up clones to fill the set while waiting for phantasms to recharge. I never got the sense of contradiction people are discussing.

I hate when people who obviously don’t play Mesmer come here to try and say everything is fine.

Yeah just use clones to fill up the slots while you wait for the massive cooldowns, that will help your damage.

Thief forums are over that way.

He didn’t say he used clones for his damage, he said he spawned clones while waiting for phantasms, which is hardly an uncommon thing to do, especially if you’re running dueling since your illusions apply bleed, and 0 condi bleed damage is better than no damage.

Are you actually implying that clone bleed damage in a power build is a reasonable solution for the destructive interaction between phantasms and shattering? I’m disappointed, I thought you were better than that.

The axe as a weapon is so weak…and the ambush projectiles take forever to land.

Fay.2357:

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Mercurias.1826:

I…Always just sustained illusions when I needed them sustained and shatters them when I wanted to shatter, since it isn’t hard to put up clones to fill the set while waiting for phantasms to recharge. I never got the sense of contradiction people are discussing.

I hate when people who obviously don’t play Mesmer come here to try and say everything is fine.

Yeah just use clones to fill up the slots while you wait for the massive cooldowns, that will help your damage.

Thief forums are over that way.

He didn’t say he used clones for his damage, he said he spawned clones while waiting for phantasms, which is hardly an uncommon thing to do, especially if you’re running dueling since your illusions apply bleed, and 0 condi bleed damage is better than no damage.

Are you actually implying that clone bleed damage in a power build is a reasonable solution for the destructive interaction between phantasms and shattering? I’m disappointed, I thought you were better than that.

Uh, no? All i did was defend the guy who said he spawned clones while waiting for phantasm CDs because doing that is better than not doing anything at all.

I’m still of the opinion (as I have been since launch), that our Phantasms should be their own thing and not tied to shatters at all.

Probably not. Which is really unfortunately because Mirage is a really cool idea otherwise ruined by terrible skills.

Chrono is simply better in every aspect.

They claim they have made changes to elite specs but won’t be telling people till the expansion is released and you are playing it. I still wouldn’t expect any significant mirage changes though.

Very anti consumer to get you to buy a product without telling you whats in it.

Levetty.1279:

Very anti consumer to get you to buy a product without telling you whats in it.

Well this kind of crap does not work on me – quite opposite actually – so instead of buying Ultimate pack directly from AN as I have planned before I will now wait till I am back from my holiday (conveniently planned tto end 26th) and will make informed decision.
If I will like what they did based on customer feedback I will still buy Ultimate pack. If I am not happy with AN approach I will buy basic PoF key from internet reseller for 15E.

Levetty.1279:

They claim they have made changes to elite specs but won’t be telling people till the expansion is released and you are playing it. I still wouldn’t expect any significant mirage changes though.

Very anti consumer to get you to buy a product without telling you whats in it.

This is an extremely stupid decision, they way they handled the elite spec changes with HoT was just flat out better. I want to know what is changing and why BEFORE the xpac is out so I can just play on launch instead of reading all the changes first.

I agree with Levetty and Durzlla. We as players deserve to know what some of the bigger changes were at the very least, especially if its a mechanics change instead of a numbers change.

I spoke to one of the balance team at Pax West. He believed that Mirage was “in a good spot.”

After some questioning, he hinted that ANET’s idea is that the Mirage play around the mirrors, ( which make aoe weakness. )

According to that dev, Mirage is basically fine. I don’t see us getting help any time soon. He also talked about nerfing chronomancer and seemed to feel it was OP.

In my eyes, that’s out-of-touch. We’ll see.

Ithilwen.1529:

I spoke to one of the balance team at Pax West. He believed that Mirage was “in a good spot.”

After some questioning, he hinted that ANET’s idea is that the Mirage play around the mirrors, ( which make aoe weakness. )

According to that dev, Mirage is basically fine. I don’t see us getting help any time soon. He also talked about nerfing chronomancer and seemed to feel it was OP.

In my eyes, that’s out-of-touch. We’ll see.

It’s like an entire spec built around the Dragonhunter utility that makes aegis on the ground that no one ever uses in any game mode.

Ithilwen.1529:

I spoke to one of the balance team at Pax West. He believed that Mirage was “in a good spot.”

After some questioning, he hinted that ANET’s idea is that the Mirage play around the mirrors, ( which make aoe weakness. )

According to that dev, Mirage is basically fine. I don’t see us getting help any time soon. He also talked about nerfing chronomancer and seemed to feel it was OP.

In my eyes, that’s out-of-touch. We’ll see.

Sounds like an anet dev.

Oh no… that’s… well I suppose that’s normal so I’m not surprised. :/

Maybe once we’ve been wiped all over the floor by holosmiths, scourges and so on then there’ll be some fixes/changes/buffs.

Curunen.8729:

Oh no… that’s… well I suppose that’s normal so I’m not surprised. :/

Maybe once we’ve been wiped all over the floor by holosmiths, scourges and so on then there’ll be some fixes/changes/buffs.

No, what will happen is something about mirage or even core mesmer will be nerfed for no reason because a bad deadeye or holosmith player died to a scourge and blamed the mirage for “confusing him”.

Ithilwen.1529:

I spoke to one of the balance team at Pax West. He believed that Mirage was “in a good spot.”

After some questioning, he hinted that ANET’s idea is that the Mirage play around the mirrors, ( which make aoe weakness. )

According to that dev, Mirage is basically fine. I don’t see us getting help any time soon. He also talked about nerfing chronomancer and seemed to feel it was OP.

In my eyes, that’s out-of-touch. We’ll see.

AoE weakness is so pathetic though. It doesn’t affect conditions at all, mirage doesn’t buff weakness in any way (not even a "take % less damage from foes that have weakness trait), is trivialized by some classes having loads of resistance. Its not useful. And that doesn’t even begin to address the actual problems with the class.

And how tf is chrono in any way OP? It deals the lowest damage. Perma quickness is no longer unique to it once firebrand is released, and kittening CORE rev and a rev elite both have access to alacrity. There is nothing OP about chrono.

>The new elite spec that everyone agrees is terrible is actually fine
>The old elite spec which is the ONLY reason people ever use Mesmers for anything, anywhere, is OP

Anet “balance” in a nutshell.

OriOri.8724:

No, what will happen is something about mirage or even core mesmer will be nerfed for no reason because a bad deadeye or holosmith player died to a scourge and blamed the mirage for “confusing him”.

Exactly this. Also that nerf will nerf the already sub-par PvE damage, because of course it does!

Ithilwen.1529:

After some questioning, he hinted that ANET’s idea is that the Mirage play around the mirrors, ( which make aoe weakness. )

So the Mirage play should center around probably worst class (sub)mechanic among all gen2 elite specs…..

Ithilwen.1529:

According to that dev, Mirage is basically fine. I don’t see us getting help any time soon. He also talked about nerfing chronomancer and seemed to feel it was OP.

So position of Chronomancer should be dedicated buffbot with zero personal damage?

…. I am sooo kittened right now

Ithilwen.1529:

I spoke to one of the balance team at Pax West. He believed that Mirage was “in a good spot.”

After some questioning, he hinted that ANET’s idea is that the Mirage play around the mirrors, ( which make aoe weakness. )

My brain hurts.

Ithilwen.1529:

According to that dev, Mirage is basically fine. I don’t see us getting help any time soon. He also talked about nerfing chronomancer and seemed to feel it was OP.

In my eyes, that’s out-of-touch. We’ll see.

My brain died.

I suggest this dev to play the game and give a read to reddit from time to time.

Speaking about pve raid in pof we will have guard stacking permaquickness with 1 key or, if they fix it, we will have guardiano stacking perma quickess using heal on cd, elite on cd and casting 1 aegist every 12 sec (100 boon duration) – not that hard rotation no? –

In the meanwhile guard is goin to make people around him to stack burning on a really low cd.

With all its buring its hard to believe firebrand to make lower dmg than an actual chrono.

BUT WE HAVE ALACRITY \0/

Let’s give a look to renegade.

People already made math that show up that playing renegate as we play c rev now, just cause new buff of renegade it will do around 40k dmg – easy math -

With traited f4 it will also stack around 50% alacrity uptime

Considering that if we’d go with a guard and an alacrity chrono the alacrity chrono is goin to do 25k dmg we have 15k difference.

15k difference is more than the dps bringed from the 40-50% additional alacrity a chrono can bring in a team.

So even without a nerf there’s already a really good change to see chrono get replaced from renegade+guard on the majority of fights.

This dev should be removed from balance duty

Not for long. I’m prepping a healing rev to handle all that alacrity for you. But hey, look at the bright side, at least you can tank all the raid bosses by distracting them with clones.

Ryouzanpaku.1273:

So position of Chronomancer should be dedicated buffbot with zero personal damage?

…. I am sooo kittened right now

You know, if they leave that it’s fine. That’s what the spec was clearly aimed to be from day 1.

Problematic would be if they nerf that support.

Carighan.6758:

Ryouzanpaku.1273:

So position of Chronomancer should be dedicated buffbot with zero personal damage?

…. I am sooo kittened right now

You know, if they leave that it’s fine. That’s what the spec was clearly aimed to be from day 1.

Problematic would be if they nerf that support.

If you read ithilwen properly you can see how that dev is out of clue, so you can assume they are goin to 100% nerf support, prolly quickness or both quicknes and alacrity.

The whining again. This forum’s community is so predictable, now I am biased and when I start to play Mirage I wonder what the whining was here. Remember the Tempest before HoT release? Same whining etc. and it became one of the most popular classes…

Ithilwen.1529:

I spoke to one of the balance team at Pax West. He believed that Mirage was “in a good spot.”

After some questioning, he hinted that ANET’s idea is that the Mirage play around the mirrors, ( which make aoe weakness. )

According to that dev, Mirage is basically fine. I don’t see us getting help any time soon. He also talked about nerfing chronomancer and seemed to feel it was OP.

In my eyes, that’s out-of-touch. We’ll see.

I suppose we should wait and see because we don’t have proof about this but the fact that any part of Mirage got to this point without any of them realising its a complete cluster kitten makes me believe this.

Carighan.6758:

Ryouzanpaku.1273:

So position of Chronomancer should be dedicated buffbot with zero personal damage?

…. I am sooo kittened right now

You know, if they leave that it’s fine. That’s what the spec was clearly aimed to be from day 1.

Problematic would be if they nerf that support.

How is that fine though? Its support can be matched more easily on other classes that can also pull in lots of personal damage (firebrand giving personal quickness on a dead simple rotation, alacrity. And it leaves mesmer with DPS builds that still rely on single target encounters where their phantasms don’t die, and the mesmers are not even allowed to use their kitten class mechanic in order to achieve these mediocre DPS benchmarks (shameless plug, my suggestion on PF goes some way in mitigating this problem, but only a bit).

How is that still deemed ok? Other classes and specs already in the game can bring more support than chrono can. New specs can more easily output perma quickness while dealing much higher damage than chrono can (on top of the easier quickness rotation). Renegade can output significant amounts of alacrity while still having really good DPS.

Chrono is no longer unique, in any regard. So why do people still claim that we have a support spec, so we don’t deserve a real DPS spec?

ProtoGunner.4953:

The whining again. This forum’s community is so predictable, now I am biased and when I start to play Mirage I wonder what the whining was here. Remember the Tempest before HoT release? Same whining etc. and it became one of the most popular classes…

The problem is that Tempest wasn’t poorly designed around features anybody could see was never going to work on top of a core class whose own class mechanics fight against itself and are useless in large parts of the game.

So when Eles complained about tempest being support focused they could just ramp up the numbers and give them a spec that was the best at everything.

If they ramp up the numbers on axe to hit as hard as DD staff and and throw as many conditions out as a full engie rotation we are still going to be riddled with contradictory and useless mechanics which look like they were designed for a different game.

Have we received any feedback at all from ANet regarding Mirage in current state (or the beta state we tested)? Are they happy with the design or have they admitted to some of the concerns the players have and plan to look into it?

ProtoGunner.4953:

The whining again. This forum’s community is so predictable, now I am biased and when I start to play Mirage I wonder what the whining was here. Remember the Tempest before HoT release? Same whining etc. and it became one of the most popular classes…

I’m actually one of the few who is on the positive side of the Mirage debate. I would love if it remained as it is and worked on tweaking the traits. From a WvW perspective I had a ton of fun with it and can see so many bright spots and plays that it can make.

In just about every circumstance that I play a Mirage played by me would beat a Core Mesmer played by me. I’ll stay silent and let the community drum up how bad Mirage is so I can enjoy the spec even more than I did.

Hackuuna.4085:

From a WvW perspective I had a ton of fun with it and can see so many bright spots and plays that it can make.

… doing what? honestly curious

i’m guessing nothing a core mesmer couldn’t already do, with some new shiny trinkets, primarily an anti CC i-frame and Jaunt

1v1ing people also practicing the e-specs who don’t know what they’re doing?

fighting people who don’t know how to play against the new e-specs?

they still offer nothing to groups, small or large, same as core mesmer, relying on illusions that blow up before you can get your “profession mechanic” skills off, unless you lolburst something, which core mesmer and chrono can ALREADY do

they still are good duelists, because it’s a core mesmer with even more dueling fluff, you could run any trait line and get just as much out of it with the dueling aspect, you’re only gaining i-frames while CC’d, and…….. i…. don’t even know what else, if you’re running a condi build, you get more burst from ambush, maybe, but chrono shatter already does enough, and if it doesn’t, they probably wouldn’t have died anyway and it did nothing better than a chrono shatter

you get jaunt, whoopee
it’s flashy, new, and pretty, fun to use except its range that’s worse than a Daredevil dodge, but it’s still just a “meh” addition

the entire specialization is such a minor fluff line, it shouldn’t be their “elite” spec
e-specs were supposed to add something that the core class didn’t have

this is nothing but a core mesmer trait line

this is why people are upset

every other class this expansion gets brand new class mechanic abilities(SSSS multiple)

we get a dodge that looks like core mesmer should have had, and are still stuck with illusions which are a horrible mechanic in half of the game modes
(bad vs pve trash, only semi-useful on bosses, garbage in large scale pvp, good in small scale pvp)

i’ve heard a lot of people having success with mirage, but they’ve only been doing what core mesmer/chrono could have done anyway, this isn’t the biggest issue of why people are upset, minus some clunky mechanics, and traits that need to be reworked, it’s the fact that it adds nothing new for mesmers to play with besides like 2 okay-ish additions with Jaunt and the Dodge/Elusive Mind

Curunen.8729:

Maybe once we’ve been wiped all over the floor by holosmiths, scourges and so on then there’ll be some fixes/changes/buffs.

1) this just wasn’t my experience during the beta weekend
2) even if that was true, what’s to say holo/scourge/etc won’t be nerfed instead?
3) even if both 1 and 2 aren’t correct, it’s not the end of the world to be UP and brought up…much better than starting out OP and enduring a series of nerfs. Been there done that, and I would much prefer the former

The really good news is that, unlike HoT, it appears that Chrono remains a viable Elite option. So no matter how bad Mirage is, there is Chrono, which is quite strong right now and nothing I’ve seen points to the fact that this will change with PoF.

I am personally excited to see what is coming for Mirage, and I don’t buy any hearsay about what some unknown dev supposedly said, or how it was (mis)interpreted. I am quite sure there will be tweaks, and Mirage will end up as an even more solid Elite than it already was during the BWE.

It won’t be sweeping changes though…if you expect or demand that, you’ll be disappointed.

I was being a bit tongue in cheek with that comment – yeah certainly nerfs will be applied in appropriate places to level things out.

For the record I enjoyed playing mirage a lot, enough to finish crafting astralaria and ten stacks of endurance regen food in preparation (I’m making a wholesale shift from chrono, intend to immerse myself fully in mirage) and was reasonably successful testing against other specs in hotjoin – there are some nice synergies with the line and a playstyle that I can really get behind.

Ithilwen.1529:

I spoke to one of the balance team at Pax West. He believed that Mirage was “in a good spot.”

So ANet asked for feedback on elite specs just to say “you’re all wrong, everything is fine lul”.
They have sense of humor have to give them credit for that.

As for the chrono nerf, what’s missing…
Chronophantasm – now only works when you have three phantasms up.
Time Catches up – your target also gains superspeed, removed the sound effect from shatters and replaced it with Benny Hill theme song.
Echo of Memory – doesn’t spawn a phantasm if target evades…oh wait.
Continuum Split – now only works with weapon swap.

Last but not least some nerfs to get new skills on par with old ones, so:
We felt that portal was to strong in comparison to Jaunt, so portal range was changed to 400.
Moa – your target will get heal the amount of damage you dealt while he was moaed, if target dies while moaed he’ll get rallied with full health instead.

Lincolnbeard.1735:

Chronophantasm – now only works when you have three phantasms up.

Chronophantasma- Shattering a phantasm recharges all phantasm abilities by 2 secs. AKA- Original Persistence of Memory.

then there will be some mesmer players who are just good and somehow make Mirage work as we always do with whatever scraps we are given and Anet will be like oh looks like it’s good (or OP) etc

Mikkel.8427:

Lincolnbeard.1735:

Chronophantasm – now only works when you have three phantasms up.

Chronophantasma- Shattering a phantasm recharges all phantasm abilities by 2 secs. AKA- Original Persistence of Memory.

Oh kitten, that actually reads like it could possibly come from a patch note. :o

Hackuuna.4085:

In just about every circumstance that I play a Mirage played by me would beat a Core Mesmer played by me.

Wait, what…? A mirage played by you would beat a core mes played by you? So… you’re playing with yourself? ;D

Levetty.1279:

They claim they have made changes to elite specs but won’t be telling people till the expansion is released and you are playing it. I still wouldn’t expect any significant mirage changes though.

Very anti consumer to get you to buy a product without telling you whats in it.

Nobody told you to buy any product. As for that statement is there a link? Im genually curious.

Ithilwen.1529:

I spoke to one of the balance team at Pax West. He believed that Mirage was “in a good spot.”

After some questioning, he hinted that ANET’s idea is that the Mirage play around the mirrors, ( which make aoe weakness. )

According to that dev, Mirage is basically fine. I don’t see us getting help any time soon. He also talked about nerfing chronomancer and seemed to feel it was OP.

In my eyes, that’s out-of-touch. We’ll see.

Reminds me of anet’s past response towards the guardian class.

Community: Spirit Wpn is useless, Retribution is Worthless, Sword need fixing, and there’s too many pointless traits !!!

Anet: Guardian is in a good spot.

Then rolls out fixes for those issues years later…

LOL.

I mean chrono is op lul

I dont know what you are all smoking, sure the mirrors are irrelevant and their are bugs like that axe port makes you face in the wrong direction but as a whole that spec feels awesome.

It feels like what a mesmer should have been from the beginning, a trickster, a thiefish duelist. Jaunting around and beeing bascialy a 1v1 troll is hella fun. People that cry because they lose their dodge do not realize how broken mirage cloak is in pvp.

Alpha.1308:

it’s the fact that it adds nothing new for mesmers to play with besides like 2 okay-ish additions with Jaunt and the Dodge/Elusive Mind

Its not a fact its your oppinion, I play pvp most of the time and I can assure you that mirage is one of the elites in the game that has a reallyunique play style. Weaver for example has tons of additional stuff but in the end doesnt play that much different from a basic elementalist.

Mayama.1854:

I dont know what you are all smoking, sure the mirrors are irrelevant and their are bugs like that axe port makes you face in the wrong direction but as a whole that spec feels awesome.

It feels like what a mesmer should have been from the beginning, a trickster, a thiefish duelist. Jaunting around and beeing bascialy a 1v1 troll is hella fun. People that cry because they lose their dodge do not realize how broken mirage cloak is in pvp.

Alpha.1308:

it’s the fact that it adds nothing new for mesmers to play with besides like 2 okay-ish additions with Jaunt and the Dodge/Elusive Mind

Its not a fact its your oppinion, I play pvp most of the time and I can assure you that mirage is one of the elites in the game that has a reallyunique play style. Weaver for example has tons of additional stuff but in the end doesnt play that much different from a basic elementalist.

Even tempest was just more of the same. Weaver is worst.
I just hope for expension three to bring something really new to elementalist.

Unless there has been some drastic, hidden changes, then no, Anet will not fix the Mirage. Our fears have come true.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Unless there has been some drastic, hidden changes, then no, Anet will not fix the Mirage. Our fears have come true.

“drastic” care to give an example?