Guild Wars 2

So I’ve read these new updates that will take place and heard that confusion will get a major nerf. (50% less damage)

This put me into a strange mood because the only reason anyone would want to have a scepter is mainly for a confusion build specialised towards PvP (because confusion is highly unreliable in PvE). Now I struggle to see any use for a scepter at any given time because any other mainhand weapon will outshine scepter’s abilities in both survivability, damage and perhaps control.

What’s your thought about this?

Scepter was worthless before so it wont really change much. They might as well remove the scepter from the Mesmer now and give us something fun, like an axe or something.

Scepter is still viable… And guess what? In sPvP damage from confusion has already been reduced! The nerf they are referencing is in WvW. And in sPvP a properly traited scepter torch+staff mes can keep confusion stacked full time almost… Its quite good.

Dawdler.8521:

Scepter was worthless before so it wont really change much. They might as well remove the scepter from the Mesmer now and give us something fun, like an axe or something.

Main hand pistol.

jportell.2197:

Scepter is still viable… Its quite good.

I’m sorry you’re just wrong. Show me any of the top sPvP/tPvP players running condition mesmers, any of them. Link me a tPvP video where good players are running with a scepter. Just one video. Scepter is not viable in tPvP or sPvP, now it is not viable in wvw against any player with half a brain.
You’re wrong, on all accounts. It’s nothing personal, but you are wrong and anet just killed the condition mesmer.

KnattyDreads.1856:

I’m sorry you’re just wrong. Show me any of the top sPvP/tPvP players running condition mesmers, any of them.

This doesn’t means much. The top pvp players use the best builds available, but that does not means that the alternative builds all suck. There are many good builds that are not used, because there’s an OP alternative. In the case of Mesmers, top players use the shatter build because of how strong it is. Should the shatter mesmers get nerfed someday, how knows if alternative builds (phantasm, condition damage, etc) start being used?

DiogoSilva.7089:

KnattyDreads.1856:

I’m sorry you’re just wrong. Show me any of the top sPvP/tPvP players running condition mesmers, any of them.

This doesn’t means much. The top pvp players use the best builds available, but that does not means that the alternative builds all suck. There are many good builds that are not used, because there’s an OP alternative. In the case of Mesmers, top players use the shatter build because of how strong it is. Should the shatter mesmers get nerfed someday, how knows if alternative builds (phantasm, condition damage, etc) start being used?

Good then you agree, if you want to be competitive don’t spec condition as a mesmer and don’t use scepter. Thank you for proving my point I couldn’t have done it better.

And now there is just one more build that is sub-par. Congratulations on a keen observation.

I’m not going to be as catty as Knatty but you have to agree that, if this change goes live, they have killed the glamour spec. I could understand if it was so powerful that over 50% of the mesmers ran it but there isn’t many. We all know the reason it isn’t overpowered is because it’s too easy to avoid the damage from confusion! In fact, the only people it really worked on are newbies whom don’t understand how it works or idiots whom ignore conditions. If they wanted to protect the newbies, a better way would be to give small amounts of confusion to a lot of minor enemies in pve so they could get use to it. The idiots still deserve to die.

So many people ran the glamour spec not because it is so great on it’s own (it’s terrible in PvP and very difficult to use as a roamer), but because it is great in a zerg. it was one of the only builds that allowed mesmers to tag groups.

I’m very disappointed that Anet decided to go so far with this nerf.

Scepter is not viable in tPvP or sPvP, now it is not viable in wvw against any player with half a brain.
You’re wrong, on all accounts. It’s nothing personal, but you are wrong and anet just killed the condition mesmer.

This^^

KnattyDreads.1856:

jportell.2197:

Scepter is still viable… Its quite good.

I’m sorry you’re just wrong. Show me any of the top sPvP/tPvP players running condition mesmers, any of them. Link me a tPvP video where good players are running with a scepter. Just one video. Scepter is not viable in tPvP or sPvP, now it is not viable in wvw against any player with half a brain.
You’re wrong, on all accounts. It’s nothing personal, but you are wrong and anet just killed the condition mesmer.

Ever hear of Flimpy? He has some good builds using the scepter….

Dawdler.8521:

Scepter was worthless before so it wont really change much. They might as well remove the scepter from the Mesmer now and give us something fun, like an axe or something.

Speak for yourself, I play PvE with Scepter/Torch & Staff all the time. Perhaps I am playing a worthless build because you wouldn’t use it yourself? I would never call anything you wish to use worthless, though. Admittedly, Staff is my main weapon, Scepter/Torch is just the icing on the cake-it makes everything in the PvE game rather easy to conquer, to be honest with you (in many ways more powerful than many of my other more power-oriented level 80 characters.)

Not that I agree with this change, though… it’s a bit perplexing that they chose to nerf Confusion, as I can’t imagine many WvW players going for Scepter now. Can’t see how this will encourage build diversity at all, which goes against their own stated words.

Star Ace.5207:

Dawdler.8521:

Scepter was worthless before so it wont really change much. They might as well remove the scepter from the Mesmer now and give us something fun, like an axe or something.

Speak for yourself, I play PvE with Scepter/Torch & Staff all the time. Perhaps I am playing a worthless build because you wouldn’t use it yourself? I would never call anything you wish to use worthless, though. Admittedly, Staff is my main weapon, Scepter/Torch is just the icing on the cake-it makes everything in the PvE game rather easy to conquer, to be honest with you (in many ways more powerful than many of my other more power-oriented level 80 characters.)

Not that I agree with this change, though… it’s a bit perplexing that they chose to nerf Confusion, as I can’t imagine many WvW players going for Scepter now. Can’t see how this will encourage build diversity at all, which goes against their own stated words.

Scepter in pve? /facepalm

To think about all those people that must carry you.

Honestly, scepter is more viable in pve than torch is. At least the scepter sorts pretends to do damage…the torch has absolutely no saving grace in pve. There is absolutely no reason you should ever need it. Even the blast finisher doesn’t work properly anymore.

Mmm the sceptre may as well be removed in my opinion because confusion was already mostly useless, and now they nerf it even further? it would good if Anet gave us Axe or MH Pistol instead…

jportell.2197:

Ever hear of Flimpy? He has some good builds using the scepter….

Which is his confusion/condition build which will be far less effective now.

morrolan.9608:

jportell.2197:

Ever hear of Flimpy? He has some good builds using the scepter….

Which is his confusion/condition build which will be far less effective now.

He uses confusion/condition damage builds in PvP where confusion isn’t getting touched this patch…

Im kinda sad because i like the scepter, not only because no1 skill is fun to have since it just spawns your clones automatically but as an image it also suits a profession wearing light armor better then a pistol. I know many ppl dont agree with this but thinking of a mesmer (since its a mage wearing a robe) holding pistols is as weird (to me) as thinking of an ele holding daggers. I know its not your typical fantasy mmo where elves and dwarves run all around the map but still…

Honestly scepter for Mesmer is one of my favorite weapons. If your set up right with a glamour build and use with focus and staff. It’s easy to get 3k confusion on 80-90% of players, 5k confusion about every other time, and 7k confusion quite a few times a day. Glamour build is very good at one on one fights, and is quite effective for 1-2 and 1-3 situations. With that being said I still see the glamour build being solid and useful event after the 50% reduction.

With this nerf at least fix #2 in the auto attack chain so it actually applies confusion. I still have no idea why it scales better with a power build but was designed with conditions in mind, see malicious Sorcery.

highlandria.7941:

Honestly scepter for Mesmer is one of my favorite weapons. If your set up right with a glamour build and use with focus and staff. It’s easy to get 3k confusion on 80-90% of players, 5k confusion about every other time, and 7k confusion quite a few times a day. Glamour build is very good at one on one fights, and is quite effective for 1-2 and 1-3 situations. With that being said I still see the glamour build being solid and useful event after the 50% reduction.

So after the nerf, you’ll be doing 3,5k damage “quite a few times a day” while you can simply shatter away with a power build and reliably get way more.

the whole thing was viable because you can stack so many sofast but the issue is they dont last but a few seconds and can be completely avoided by running away…confusion was never op…now its almost worthless

This sucks, I just bought my condi set a few days ago.

In spvp, the only situations were I saw confusion really pulling its weight, is on fast attackers like short bow rangers and double dagger thieves.

Scepter has no breath since betas so nothing changed with confusion nerf… Anet should just delete our scepter/torch and give us whip and MH pistol.

Mjrnx.2483:

With this nerf at least fix #2 in the auto attack chain so it actually applies confusion. I still have no idea why it scales better with a power build but was designed with conditions in mind, see malicious Sorcery.

It isn’t supposed to be applying the confusion… they nerfed it… But now that they are neutering confusion more it should come back

Another point is not mentioned yet. The mesmers downstate damage, although it is very tough at the moment, is mainly referred to the damage done by confusion.

Scepter sure needs some love, after the patch even moreso. For starters scepter 1 clones should apply a mix of conditions similar to staff. I’d prefer either always confusion (simply to have more of it up to counter the nerf a bit) or various snares like chilled, crippled, etc.

Scepter’s biggest issue is (and was) the incredibly cumbersome and slow autoattack. I mean, look at the firing speed. Look at it! And that annoying sound. And how slow the projectile comes out and then majestically travels through it’s target which has long finished taking the tower and left WvW for the evening.

Dawdler.8521:

Scepter was worthless before so it wont really change much.

Pretty much this.

Aside some very niche builds (that sacrifice efficiency to being a hipster) scepter was worthless already to me – especially in pve.
WvW had it’s fashion only in last month due to confusion dmg not nerfed yet + beam now aoe…. but out of 3 skills only the beam is somewhat useful.
Better stick to sword anyway – atleast there’s a reason to use all 3 skills of my mainhand.

People usually like to talk about “viability” I prefer to think in terms of optimization. I think Scepter mainhand confusion builds will still be viable in WvW in the sense that one could run them and probably get some kills but I do not think they will be optimal considering the reduced damage from confusion. Obviously in sPvP/tPvP nothing has changed.

I switched out my confusion build for a power/shatter build last night, still getting used to it. I’ll try it in WvW this week and see how it goes.

Honestly I don’t think it’s going to be great in T1 WvW – the numbers involved in battles are really large and it feels like more of a small-numbers/roaming build. I’m guessing Sword #2 in the middle of a zerg is NOT a good idea.

I think Staff is still very viable in WvW but Scepter definitely is not and there’s no other viable option for second weapon set. Killing confusion kills scepter, which in turn kills staff build making Mesmer one-dimensional. Bad change by Anet and not fully thought through at all.

Staff is pretty awesome with power builds though. Especially with the Illusionary Elasticity trait. Phase Retreat clones can do a lot of damage.

Israel.7056:

Staff is pretty awesome with power builds though. Especially with the Illusionary Elasticity trait. Phase Retreat clones can do a lot of damage.

Yes, maybe Staff + GS for WvW? But what armor/trinkets to use? Staff has a lot of conditions whereas GS seems more direct damage. Advice welcome, thanks!

GS+Staff really is an underappreciated combo. Staff gives you ample defence and provides a very awesome damage Phantasm which scales well with your power stat and the readily available condition-spam of WvW. Greatsword gives you the pinpoint-damage and an easily available cripple + the might stacks necessary to hurt people.

As for Armour, everyone will have their own preferences here, I prefer a rather defensive setup of P/V/T with some Celestial pieces mixed in (the celestial is because I am not 100% sure of my playstyle yet, so it’s the only viable choice for me.
The sigils, I use stacking Precision on the GS and AE freeze on swap on the Staff.

I like to keep combat ranged, so I’m neither a fan of illusionary persona nor mainhand sword, which basically only leaves gs or scepter combined with staff. That’s why I want another ranged mainhand or a fix to scepter, as it’s really ridiculous in its current state. Especially considering the buff to illusionary images is now more than negated by the confusion nerf.

I must be playing this game wrong. For PVE ive been using Scepter/Pistol and Sword/Focus. in WVW I usually use scepter or sword/pistol and Staff. For WvW, I can understand that the scepter will suck. However for PVE I dont see how the GS is better than Scepter/Pistol. Scepter 1 makes clones, even though its slow. 2 is a strong block, 3 is very strong. the confusion stack on 3 is just a bonus really, the actually attack is powerful. With offhand pistol it works perfectly. Maybe im missing something and should be rocking a GS

Oh, #2 and #3 on the Sceptre are plenty strong. The only issue is in it’s horribly slow #1 chain. Even the secondary effect is arguably ok, if the whole thing wasn’t so slow. :S

personally I dont mind the speed because I usually dont finish the chain, (in PVE) as I use mantra of pain during the attacks and usually charge it after the 3rd, and then release another pistol phanasm. I dunno it works amazing for me im shocked no one else uses it. I actually had a guy run up to me while killing SB last night and asked why I use it. strange

Carighan.6758:

Oh, #2 and #3 on the Sceptre are plenty strong. The only issue is in it’s horribly slow #1 chain. Even the secondary effect is arguably ok, if the whole thing wasn’t so slow. :S

Yup. You got it nailed right there. Scepter can be good, but you have to have the right build and play strategy for it (i.e. switch to it only when you want to unleash a combo with #2 or #3, and not not rely on its auto attack). The main reason people think it’s trash is because it’s actually better in a power build, but people treat it only as a condition weapon.

Scepter will never hold its own without niche build support until its auto attack flaws are addressed.

I use it in my hybrid-support-setup (Scepter / Torch / Staff, swapping in Pistol as needed). It’s a solid weapon, but clunky.

It’s not really bad, it’s just… it’s not really good either, if that makes sense. Not in a combat system as reactive and often explosive as GW2’s (for a MMO).

As a WvW weapon, yes, the Scepter is dead. The only reasons why we tolerated the terrible #1 was because it offered a huge amount of Confusion stacks. We might as well run Sword+Pistol in all cases for PvP now.

For ranged, I just use Staff with illusionary elasticity (bouncy!), since all 5 skills are decent. I gave up on GS because the zerker is busted. Scepter has slow auto-attack and confusion has been badly nerfed.

For direct damage I use sword+pistol, sword+focus or sword+torch, with blade training and knight’s/soldier gear plus a few zerker trinkets (not too many).

I use shatter with both weapon sets (deceptive evasion, mirror images, decoy), illusionary persona and mental torment.

I think the fact that scepter and GS are both a bit broken, plus the confusion nerf, has made the number of builds a bit limited right now. I’m still learning mesmer but get the feeling there are not too many viable builds, especially for WvW. Other professions are not as limited (eg my guardian could use a ton of possible builds).

The annoying thing about this nerf is that glam builds needed nerfing, but this didn’t really address the issue that needed nerfing, and it nerfed everyone else.

so why were glam builds op’d? Because they dont obey the aoe limitations that affect all other aoe skills. So this made them very powerful vs a large group of players. The consequence is 10 glam mesmers could keep 25 stacks of confusion on an entire zerg. That is op’d. Here’s the other problem…they still mostly can. This only does half the dmg now, but 25 stacks is nothing to sneeze at-because youll take dmg. the nerf has therefore hurt the random player who wants to play around with glam builds. it also hurts other condition builds, since confusion is always at least part of the ddamage for mesmer condi builds.

worse still, the nerf did nothing to stop groups of coordinated mesmers from continuing to abuse glam builds…because again, the issue is that it affects the whole zerg, and that hasnt changed. So the one thing the nerf was rightfully intended to stop, it doesnt. -and it negatively affects everyone else.

What bobross said. The problem was Glamour, not Confusion. Though they did nerf Blinding Befuddlement too. =\

I think you’re right. The problem wasn’t so much confusion per se, but the ability to drop it in stacks on an entire zerg. Rather than reduce the damage by 50%, the developers could just have altered the trait options or the maximum number of targets affected.

This would have resulted in more balanced gameplay for all while keeping multiple build options viable for people playing the professions that use the confusion mechanic. A much better solution than the giant sledgehammer the developers actually employed.

Godmoney.2048:

Star Ace.5207:

Dawdler.8521:

Scepter was worthless before so it wont really change much. They might as well remove the scepter from the Mesmer now and give us something fun, like an axe or something.

Speak for yourself, I play PvE with Scepter/Torch & Staff all the time. Perhaps I am playing a worthless build because you wouldn’t use it yourself? I would never call anything you wish to use worthless, though. Admittedly, Staff is my main weapon, Scepter/Torch is just the icing on the cake-it makes everything in the PvE game rather easy to conquer, to be honest with you (in many ways more powerful than many of my other more power-oriented level 80 characters.)

Not that I agree with this change, though… it’s a bit perplexing that they chose to nerf Confusion, as I can’t imagine many WvW players going for Scepter now. Can’t see how this will encourage build diversity at all, which goes against their own stated words.

Scepter in pve? /facepalm

To think about all those people that must carry you.

Yes because i can do 30k damage in 5s on dungeon bosses all fro. Confusion stacks. Thank you condition duration food LOL So no-one is carrying me

bobross.5034:

The annoying thing about this nerf is that glam builds needed nerfing, but this didn’t really address the issue that needed nerfing, and it nerfed everyone else.

so why were glam builds op’d? Because they dont obey the aoe limitations that affect all other aoe skills. So this made them very powerful vs a large group of players. The consequence is 10 glam mesmers could keep 25 stacks of confusion on an entire zerg. That is op’d. Here’s the other problem…they still mostly can. This only does half the dmg now, but 25 stacks is nothing to sneeze at-because youll take dmg. the nerf has therefore hurt the random player who wants to play around with glam builds. it also hurts other condition builds, since confusion is always at least part of the ddamage for mesmer condi builds.

worse still, the nerf did nothing to stop groups of coordinated mesmers from continuing to abuse glam builds…because again, the issue is that it affects the whole zerg, and that hasnt changed. So the one thing the nerf was rightfully intended to stop, it doesnt. -and it negatively affects everyone else.

actually with the blinding befuddlement nerf, 25 staks are not easy to get at all and i havent gotten it since the nerf. highest i got was 17, which did not enough dmg. but think about it 10 necros can do even more dmg with all their wells and some of them do not hav an aoe cap either. 6 necros 2ballistas and 1 arrowcart were able to prevent an entire zerg to enter hills lordsroom. we destroyed the arrowcart and ballista, but the wells were almost like instadeath for us.
people can avoid massive confusion dmg by slowing down their attacks, if u get hit wit lots of bleeding or heavy burning dmg u take similar dmg. pure glamour mesmers do not do any other dmg apart from confusion, but changing the aoe cap on feedback would be hard, as it reflects projectiles and nullfield rips boons and cure conditions. i would have been ok with 15-25 percent nerf without th e blinding befuddlement nerf. 50 percent is wayyy over the top!

Godmoney.2048:

Star Ace.5207:

Dawdler.8521:

Scepter was worthless before so it wont really change much. They might as well remove the scepter from the Mesmer now and give us something fun, like an axe or something.

Speak for yourself, I play PvE with Scepter/Torch & Staff all the time. Perhaps I am playing a worthless build because you wouldn’t use it yourself? I would never call anything you wish to use worthless, though. Admittedly, Staff is my main weapon, Scepter/Torch is just the icing on the cake-it makes everything in the PvE game rather easy to conquer, to be honest with you (in many ways more powerful than many of my other more power-oriented level 80 characters.)

Not that I agree with this change, though… it’s a bit perplexing that they chose to nerf Confusion, as I can’t imagine many WvW players going for Scepter now. Can’t see how this will encourage build diversity at all, which goes against their own stated words.

Scepter in pve? /facepalm

To think about all those people that must carry you.

a rather bleak look tbh, scepter can become an extremly good support weapon in pve and Wvw when using the Counter correctly, its the only main hand that offers a counter the other is offered by the offhand sword, some ppl use zerk builds to prove they can survive with skill rather than defense, the counters on both of these weapons are imo OP and protect against an attack at the same time

The tooltip says confuse the target but think that is just because it drops a clone (ie confuse the player, not confusion damage)

The clone is useless because your using a ranged weapon yet the clone drops next to the target. That wouldnt confuse anyone!

Get rid of the clone on skill #1 and add 1x confusion stack to the 2nd/3rd chain instead.
or
Speed up the channelling on skill #3

The sword is far superior in defence(invulnarability) and attack(imobilize/frenzy)