Core Mesmer is better at attacking + evade
Try moving while blurred. Try casting while dodging. Mechanic is great , we just need more endurance regen.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
and? Where does it say that this Elite spec should out damage a core spec and out evade another?
Elite specs are not meant to be far superior than other core specs, so yes, probably another core spec has more evades, another has more damage, Elite specs are meant to open more options and diversity, not give you an overpowered version of other core specs.
Pro tip: If you like Blurred Frenzy that much, just use it when specced into Mirage??
and? Where does it say that this Elite spec should out damage a core spec and out evade another?
Elite specs are not meant to be far superior than other core specs, so yes, probably another core spec has more evades, another has more damage, Elite specs are meant to open more options and diversity, not give you an overpowered version of other core specs.Pro tip: If you like Blurred Frenzy that much, just use it when specced into Mirage??
Elite specs are supposed to be pure upgrades to the core specializations and side grades to each other. They’ve said that multiple times.
Literally all of the generation 1 elite specs are flat upgrades to core specializations with the exception of scrapper, which is still a flat upgrade to engineer in PvP.
It’s absurd to say the Daredevil is not a direct upgrade to the thief’s evasion capabilities. Or that Berserker isn’t a flat upgrade to a warrior’s damage, condition damage, and ability to pump out burst skills. Or that the Chronomancer isn’t a direct upgrade to mesmer’s team support capabilities and defensive capabilities.
Again, the Elite Specs are supposed to be stronger than core specs. They just aren’t meant to stronger than other elite specs.
(edited by mortrialus.3062)
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
(edited by Levetty.1279)
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
You can’t argue that mirage doesn’t take away anything and then list the things it takes away.
Having a worse dodge IS a huge deal. Having to replace the elite to compensate for this is no valid argument.
Having to give up 1 trait line IS a huge deal if it does not add anything significant versus core mesmer (which mirage does not).
If you add a lot of traits, utilities and mechanics and argue that variety is awlays a benefit I’ll just counterargue and state that this simply is not true when the stuff added is junk.
Also if you continue using all the core mesmer utilities, traits and skills while playing mirage, why bother picking up mirage in the first place if it adds nothing?
Try moving while blurred. Try casting while dodging. Mechanic is great , we just need more endurance regen.
Yes because mesmer has long cast times and GW2 in general is littered with casting spells left and right and almost no skills are instant, oh wait. /s
I’m pretty sure quite a lot of people would gladly give up the “castering while (dodging)” mechanic of mirage for some more congruent mechanic intune with the class.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
You can’t argue that mirage doesn’t take away anything and then list the things it takes away.
Having a worse dodge IS a huge deal. Having to replace the elite to compensate for this is no valid argument.
Having to give up 1 trait line IS a huge deal if it does not add anything significant versus core mesmer (which mirage does not).
If you add a lot of traits, utilities and mechanics and argue that variety is awlays a benefit I’ll just counterargue and state that this simply is not true when the stuff added is junk.
Also if you continue using all the core mesmer utilities, traits and skills while playing mirage, why bother picking up mirage in the first place if it adds nothing?
Try moving while blurred. Try casting while dodging. Mechanic is great , we just need more endurance regen.
Yes because mesmer has long cast times and GW2 in general is littered with casting spells left and right and almost no skills are instant, oh wait. /s
I’m pretty sure quite a lot of people would gladly give up the “castering while (dodging)” mechanic of mirage for some more congruent mechanic intune with the class.
It’s not a worse dodge, it’s a better dodge since you can use it at literally any point, you can even use it while you’re airborne (unlike every other skill in the game), base Mesmer can’t dodge while stunned or immobed, Mirage can, you can’t dodge while casting a spell without interrupting it, Mirage can. Literally all you lose is the tiny roll you do, which isn’t even beneficial all the time.
And I didn’t say you needed jaunt, I said if that small mobility roll is essential to you for whatever reason, but you’re still wanting Mirage, you can take jaunt.
There’s plenty of elite specs that don’t fill their bar with only the new utilities, scrapper and DH being two that immediately come to mind, so I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t run a signet Mesmer build with sword should you really want to just go full hog on the evading while attacking thing.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
and? Where does it say that this Elite spec should out damage a core spec and out evade another?
Elite specs are not meant to be far superior than other core specs, so yes, probably another core spec has more evades, another has more damage, Elite specs are meant to open more options and diversity, not give you an overpowered version of other core specs.
Well, I agree 110%. Only, I wish they’d rebalance the gen1 elite specs this way, which were by and large much stronger than the base classes.
That’s kinda the big problem here, there’s very little reason to not just play Chrono instead of Mirage. Even if the playstyle differs, one could always make another class to get a more aggressive (and better balanced) playstyle.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
You can’t argue that mirage doesn’t take away anything and then list the things it takes away.
Having a worse dodge IS a huge deal. Having to replace the elite to compensate for this is no valid argument.
Having to give up 1 trait line IS a huge deal if it does not add anything significant versus core mesmer (which mirage does not).
If you add a lot of traits, utilities and mechanics and argue that variety is awlays a benefit I’ll just counterargue and state that this simply is not true when the stuff added is junk.
Also if you continue using all the core mesmer utilities, traits and skills while playing mirage, why bother picking up mirage in the first place if it adds nothing?
Try moving while blurred. Try casting while dodging. Mechanic is great , we just need more endurance regen.
Yes because mesmer has long cast times and GW2 in general is littered with casting spells left and right and almost no skills are instant, oh wait. /s
I’m pretty sure quite a lot of people would gladly give up the “castering while (dodging)” mechanic of mirage for some more congruent mechanic intune with the class.
It’s not a worse dodge, it’s a better dodge since you can use it at literally any point, you can even use it while you’re airborne (unlike every other skill in the game), base Mesmer can’t dodge while stunned or immobed, Mirage can, you can’t dodge while casting a spell without interrupting it, Mirage can. Literally all you lose is the tiny roll you do, which isn’t even beneficial all the time.
And I didn’t say you needed jaunt, I said if that small mobility roll is essential to you for whatever reason, but you’re still wanting Mirage, you can take jaunt.
There’s plenty of elite specs that don’t fill their bar with only the new utilities, scrapper and DH being two that immediately come to mind, so I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t run a signet Mesmer build with sword should you really want to just go full hog on the evading while attacking thing.
Mirages dodge is worse when viewed within the context of how the game is designed (around the basic dodge mechanic). Even with superspeed it’s worse at evading backwards (compare that to Daredevils 3 dodges which are all enhanced significantly on top of being 3!!!).
You can argue as much as you want and call the movement with dodge tiny, small, insignificant or whatever. Does not make it true though. The entire game is designed around dodge (and it’s inherint movement) and the way it works for soon 96% of all classes/elites (26 out of 27). If that mechanic is changed, it has to be an improvement accross the board, mirages dodge is not.
It is funny that you are harping on about mirages dodge allowing one to cast when the entire game is designed around fast casts and almost no spell cast times (kind of a flip side to how this works with dodging). You are vastly overvaluing the cast while moving aspect of the dodge.
The fact remains, mirage (on top of having a worse dodge when viewd from a games core design aspect) provides a traitline which can easily be replaced by one from core mesmer, provides a lackluster weapon and kitten utilities.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.
That’s not what you said though. you exactly said:
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class
and in this case that is untrue since you can’t take 3 core traitlines with mirage thus you are effectively not able to use all your core abilities. Mirage is competing for a traitline slot and is barely better than the core trailines, which is the actual problem here.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.
That’s not what you said though. you exactly said:
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class
and in this case that is untrue since you can’t take 3 core traitlines with mirage thus you are effectively not able to use all your core abilities. Mirage is competing for a traitline slot and is barely better than the core trailines, which is the actual problem here.
Mirage does not prevent him from taking sword, signers, or the domination line as my original quote was talking about. But nice try.
And the elite specs really shouldn’t be that much stronger than the core specs, they should give a different playstyle, not an upgrade, just as Anet said they wanted it to be. The problem is they kittened up balance wise on the first batch and now everyone thinks elite specs are supposed to be a mandatory upgrade for you based on your role.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.
That’s not what you said though. you exactly said:
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class
and in this case that is untrue since you can’t take 3 core traitlines with mirage thus you are effectively not able to use all your core abilities. Mirage is competing for a traitline slot and is barely better than the core trailines, which is the actual problem here.
Mirage does not prevent him from taking sword, signers, or the domination line as my original quote was talking about. But nice try.
And the elite specs really shouldn’t be that much stronger than the core specs, they should give a different playstyle, not an upgrade, just as Anet said they wanted it to be. The problem is they kittened up balance wise on the first batch and now everyone thinks elite specs are supposed to be a mandatory upgrade for you based on your role.
Ah “should be land”, yes while you are in “should be land” all the rest of us mesmer get to play with all the other classes and their new toys which provide new playstyles to their classes while also keeping the powerlevel even, at first elite level and not core level.
Mirage is absolutely fine when viewed through “should be” eyes, I agree.
To be honest, I’m kind of torn on how to approach this.
On one hand, I’m pretty sure axe condi mirage does more damage than base condi or power mesmer.
On the other hand, I agree that the evasion mechanic really holds this spec back in every aspect of the game except 1.
Mirage is a good open world spec, purely because of how fast it can get around with sword ambush
Although, I would probably still do open world with chrono, purely because Chrono comes with 25% run speed by default. And I really don’t want to see another traveler’s rune for as long as I live.
I don’t know. I’d have to see mirage’s numbers on a raid boss before I said base Mesmer was better.
“Unused Development Initiative. We care so much
about your feedback, that we don’t even read it.” ~ Crystal Suzuki
about your feedback, that we don’t even read it.” ~ Crystal Suzuki
To be honest, I’m kind of torn on how to approach this.
On one hand, I’m pretty sure axe condi mirage does more damage than base condi or power mesmer.
On the other hand, I agree that the evasion mechanic really holds this spec back in every aspect of the game except 1.
Mirage is a good open world spec, purely because of how fast it can get around with sword ambush
Although, I would probably still do open world with chrono, purely because Chrono comes with 25% run speed by default. And I really don’t want to see another traveler’s rune for as long as I live.
I don’t know. I’d have to see mirage’s numbers on a raid boss before I said base Mesmer was better.
Condi mirage sure as hell does not do more DPS than power mesmer in PvE.
Power mesmer is ahead of condi by as much as 6k DPS and condi mirage is a marginal upgrade over core condi mesmer.
To be honest, I’m kind of torn on how to approach this.
On one hand, I’m pretty sure axe condi mirage does more damage than base condi or power mesmer.
On the other hand, I agree that the evasion mechanic really holds this spec back in every aspect of the game except 1.
Mirage is a good open world spec, purely because of how fast it can get around with sword ambush
Although, I would probably still do open world with chrono, purely because Chrono comes with 25% run speed by default. And I really don’t want to see another traveler’s rune for as long as I live.
I don’t know. I’d have to see mirage’s numbers on a raid boss before I said base Mesmer was better.
Condi mirage sure as hell does not do more DPS than power mesmer in PvE.
Power mesmer is ahead of condi by as much as 6k DPS and condi mirage is a marginal upgrade over core condi mesmer.
What build is power Mesmer using to get that high? Because the last I saw of the dps tier list power Mesmer was still garbage tier. Which surprised me since I thought the new phantasm Gm + dueling GM with a sword build would do well…
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.
That’s not what you said though. you exactly said:
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class
and in this case that is untrue since you can’t take 3 core traitlines with mirage thus you are effectively not able to use all your core abilities. Mirage is competing for a traitline slot and is barely better than the core trailines, which is the actual problem here.
Mirage does not prevent him from taking sword, signers, or the domination line as my original quote was talking about. But nice try.
And the elite specs really shouldn’t be that much stronger than the core specs, they should give a different playstyle, not an upgrade, just as Anet said they wanted it to be. The problem is they kittened up balance wise on the first batch and now everyone thinks elite specs are supposed to be a mandatory upgrade for you based on your role.
Ah “should be land”, yes while you are in “should be land” all the rest of us mesmer get to play with all the other classes and their new toys which provide new playstyles to their classes while also keeping the powerlevel even, at first elite level and not core level.
Mirage is absolutely fine when viewed through “should be” eyes, I agree.
You seem to be mistaking me saying that Mesmer is better at attacking while evading than base Mesmer with me thinking Mirage is totally fine as is.
Just because I think every elite spec should be about how mirage and Soulbeast are power level wise doesn’t mean that I don’t think they’re going to be woefully underpowered without changes when compared to the existing ones or the new ones.
Anet will need to make a choice to either stick with what they SAID they would do and nerf the numbers on most of the elite specs, or continue doing what they’ve been doing and buff some of the elite specs, Mirage included.
The only thing I think mirage is fine with ATM is the concept and the general feel of gameplay, the numbers need tweaking very badly, and some of the traits are just worthless/don’t belong imo.
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
To be honest, I’m kind of torn on how to approach this.
On one hand, I’m pretty sure axe condi mirage does more damage than base condi or power mesmer.
On the other hand, I agree that the evasion mechanic really holds this spec back in every aspect of the game except 1.
Mirage is a good open world spec, purely because of how fast it can get around with sword ambush
Although, I would probably still do open world with chrono, purely because Chrono comes with 25% run speed by default. And I really don’t want to see another traveler’s rune for as long as I live.
I don’t know. I’d have to see mirage’s numbers on a raid boss before I said base Mesmer was better.
Condi mirage sure as hell does not do more DPS than power mesmer in PvE.
Power mesmer is ahead of condi by as much as 6k DPS and condi mirage is a marginal upgrade over core condi mesmer.
What build is power Mesmer using to get that high? Because the last I saw of the dps tier list power Mesmer was still garbage tier. Which surprised me since I thought the new phantasm Gm + dueling GM with a sword build would do well…
https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-august-balance-patch/
There you go. Pure condi mesmer does better on static large bosses, and yet it’s still behind by 3k+ DPS.
Power mesmer is only 4k DPS behind top specs, and most of his damage is passive through phantasms and sword auto+blurred frenzy, which means actual raid DPS of power mesmers is realistically higher than the other classes with more complex rotations.
To be honest, I’m kind of torn on how to approach this.
On one hand, I’m pretty sure axe condi mirage does more damage than base condi or power mesmer.
On the other hand, I agree that the evasion mechanic really holds this spec back in every aspect of the game except 1.
Mirage is a good open world spec, purely because of how fast it can get around with sword ambush
Although, I would probably still do open world with chrono, purely because Chrono comes with 25% run speed by default. And I really don’t want to see another traveler’s rune for as long as I live.
I don’t know. I’d have to see mirage’s numbers on a raid boss before I said base Mesmer was better.
Condi mirage sure as hell does not do more DPS than power mesmer in PvE.
Power mesmer is ahead of condi by as much as 6k DPS and condi mirage is a marginal upgrade over core condi mesmer.
What build is power Mesmer using to get that high? Because the last I saw of the dps tier list power Mesmer was still garbage tier. Which surprised me since I thought the new phantasm Gm + dueling GM with a sword build would do well…
https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-august-balance-patch/
There you go. Pure condi mesmer does better on static large bosses, and yet it’s still behind by 3k+ DPS.
Power mesmer is only 4k DPS behind top specs, and most of his damage is passive through phantasms and sword auto+blurred frenzy, which means actual raid DPS of power mesmers is realistically higher than the other classes with more complex rotations.
Ooooh, I like this, gonna have to give this build a run!
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
Yeah nothing to say here.
Needs tweaks, but still a good spec.
To be honest, I’m kind of torn on how to approach this.
On one hand, I’m pretty sure axe condi mirage does more damage than base condi or power mesmer.
On the other hand, I agree that the evasion mechanic really holds this spec back in every aspect of the game except 1.
Mirage is a good open world spec, purely because of how fast it can get around with sword ambush
Although, I would probably still do open world with chrono, purely because Chrono comes with 25% run speed by default. And I really don’t want to see another traveler’s rune for as long as I live.
I don’t know. I’d have to see mirage’s numbers on a raid boss before I said base Mesmer was better.
Condi mirage sure as hell does not do more DPS than power mesmer in PvE.
Power mesmer is ahead of condi by as much as 6k DPS and condi mirage is a marginal upgrade over core condi mesmer.
What build is power Mesmer using to get that high? Because the last I saw of the dps tier list power Mesmer was still garbage tier. Which surprised me since I thought the new phantasm Gm + dueling GM with a sword build would do well…
https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-august-balance-patch/
There you go. Pure condi mesmer does better on static large bosses, and yet it’s still behind by 3k+ DPS.
Power mesmer is only 4k DPS behind top specs, and most of his damage is passive through phantasms and sword auto+blurred frenzy, which means actual raid DPS of power mesmers is realistically higher than the other classes with more complex rotations.
I suppose my issue, is that I don’t run in groups that have permanent quickness, permanent might, and permanent fury.
Soooooooo, I’ll never hit those numbers to begin with no matter what I run.
“Unused Development Initiative. We care so much
about your feedback, that we don’t even read it.” ~ Crystal Suzuki
about your feedback, that we don’t even read it.” ~ Crystal Suzuki
To be honest, I’m kind of torn on how to approach this.
On one hand, I’m pretty sure axe condi mirage does more damage than base condi or power mesmer.
On the other hand, I agree that the evasion mechanic really holds this spec back in every aspect of the game except 1.
Mirage is a good open world spec, purely because of how fast it can get around with sword ambush
Although, I would probably still do open world with chrono, purely because Chrono comes with 25% run speed by default. And I really don’t want to see another traveler’s rune for as long as I live.
I don’t know. I’d have to see mirage’s numbers on a raid boss before I said base Mesmer was better.
Condi mirage sure as hell does not do more DPS than power mesmer in PvE.
Power mesmer is ahead of condi by as much as 6k DPS and condi mirage is a marginal upgrade over core condi mesmer.
What build is power Mesmer using to get that high? Because the last I saw of the dps tier list power Mesmer was still garbage tier. Which surprised me since I thought the new phantasm Gm + dueling GM with a sword build would do well…
https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-august-balance-patch/
There you go. Pure condi mesmer does better on static large bosses, and yet it’s still behind by 3k+ DPS.
Power mesmer is only 4k DPS behind top specs, and most of his damage is passive through phantasms and sword auto+blurred frenzy, which means actual raid DPS of power mesmers is realistically higher than the other classes with more complex rotations.
I suppose my issue, is that I don’t run in groups that have permanent quickness, permanent might, and permanent fury.
Soooooooo, I’ll never hit those numbers to begin with no matter what I run.
That applies for any spec you run.
It’s not like you have a mesmer spec that can might stack without utterly gutting your damage output, making said might stacking pointless.
And if you don’t do group content, then nothing is relevant to you as any content you can solo by spamming a ranged weapon autoattack is not content worth balancing around.
To be honest, I’m kind of torn on how to approach this.
On one hand, I’m pretty sure axe condi mirage does more damage than base condi or power mesmer.
On the other hand, I agree that the evasion mechanic really holds this spec back in every aspect of the game except 1.
Mirage is a good open world spec, purely because of how fast it can get around with sword ambush
Although, I would probably still do open world with chrono, purely because Chrono comes with 25% run speed by default. And I really don’t want to see another traveler’s rune for as long as I live.
I don’t know. I’d have to see mirage’s numbers on a raid boss before I said base Mesmer was better.
Condi mirage sure as hell does not do more DPS than power mesmer in PvE.
Power mesmer is ahead of condi by as much as 6k DPS and condi mirage is a marginal upgrade over core condi mesmer.
What build is power Mesmer using to get that high? Because the last I saw of the dps tier list power Mesmer was still garbage tier. Which surprised me since I thought the new phantasm Gm + dueling GM with a sword build would do well…
https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-august-balance-patch/
There you go. Pure condi mesmer does better on static large bosses, and yet it’s still behind by 3k+ DPS.
Power mesmer is only 4k DPS behind top specs, and most of his damage is passive through phantasms and sword auto+blurred frenzy, which means actual raid DPS of power mesmers is realistically higher than the other classes with more complex rotations.
I suppose my issue, is that I don’t run in groups that have permanent quickness, permanent might, and permanent fury.
Soooooooo, I’ll never hit those numbers to begin with no matter what I run.
Fury can be easily maintained by a lot of classes, so that one shouldn’t be a problem.
And it looks like a few classes are getting the ability to might stack and Firebrand can do quickness so it might be a bit easier finding groups with these buffs 100%
They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family.
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
As their mother, I have to grant them their wish. – Forever Fyonna
To be honest, I’m kind of torn on how to approach this.
On one hand, I’m pretty sure axe condi mirage does more damage than base condi or power mesmer.
On the other hand, I agree that the evasion mechanic really holds this spec back in every aspect of the game except 1.
Mirage is a good open world spec, purely because of how fast it can get around with sword ambush
Although, I would probably still do open world with chrono, purely because Chrono comes with 25% run speed by default. And I really don’t want to see another traveler’s rune for as long as I live.
I don’t know. I’d have to see mirage’s numbers on a raid boss before I said base Mesmer was better.
Condi mirage sure as hell does not do more DPS than power mesmer in PvE.
Power mesmer is ahead of condi by as much as 6k DPS and condi mirage is a marginal upgrade over core condi mesmer.
What build is power Mesmer using to get that high? Because the last I saw of the dps tier list power Mesmer was still garbage tier. Which surprised me since I thought the new phantasm Gm + dueling GM with a sword build would do well…
https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-august-balance-patch/
There you go. Pure condi mesmer does better on static large bosses, and yet it’s still behind by 3k+ DPS.
Power mesmer is only 4k DPS behind top specs, and most of his damage is passive through phantasms and sword auto+blurred frenzy, which means actual raid DPS of power mesmers is realistically higher than the other classes with more complex rotations.
I suppose my issue, is that I don’t run in groups that have permanent quickness, permanent might, and permanent fury.
Soooooooo, I’ll never hit those numbers to begin with no matter what I run.
That applies for any spec you run.
It’s not like you have a mesmer spec that can might stack without utterly gutting your damage output, making said might stacking pointless.
And if you don’t do group content, then nothing is relevant to you as any content you can solo by spamming a ranged weapon autoattack is not content worth balancing around.
I don’t think it does, actually.
I think certain specs are more self-proficient than others.
I think most specs don’t require your illusions to have 25 stacks of might + fury as well, in order to do their damage.
But that’s just my 2 cents on the issues with using those benchmarks as a marker for, anything. Really.
I’d rather see DPS metrics from an actually organized raid.
“Unused Development Initiative. We care so much
about your feedback, that we don’t even read it.” ~ Crystal Suzuki
about your feedback, that we don’t even read it.” ~ Crystal Suzuki
Yeah nothing to say here.
Needs tweaks, but still a good spec.
Um… Did you read the comments under that vid? Even that guy says he was just having fun with the extra mobility from Mirage, but its still a terrible spec…
You could hand that guy randomly selected trait lines/traits/weapons and he would still slaughter noobs on his Mesmer. Does that make the randomly selected setup good?
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
You’re not directly losing something it’s opportunity cost, this wasn’t an argument over “what’s better at support Mirage or Mesmer?” This was “Mesmer is better at evading while attacking” which is blatantly false. If your goal is to be offensive while being hard to hit you’d want Mirage over base Mesmer, and for that role you sacrifice very little.
That’s not what you said though. you exactly said:
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class
and in this case that is untrue since you can’t take 3 core traitlines with mirage thus you are effectively not able to use all your core abilities. Mirage is competing for a traitline slot and is barely better than the core trailines, which is the actual problem here.
Mirage does not prevent him from taking sword, signers, or the domination line as my original quote was talking about. But nice try.
And the elite specs really shouldn’t be that much stronger than the core specs, they should give a different playstyle, not an upgrade, just as Anet said they wanted it to be. The problem is they kittened up balance wise on the first batch and now everyone thinks elite specs are supposed to be a mandatory upgrade for you based on your role.
Well theres the problem isn’t it. You have two choices Durzlla
1) Elite Specs are better then core: Mirage is useless because its weaker then core Mesmer.
2) Elite Specs are sidegrades to core with new ways to play: Mesmer already has better tools to dodge while attacking, Mirage adds no new ways to play.
Well theres the problem isn’t it. You have two choices Durzlla
1) Elite Specs are better then core: Mirage is useless because its weaker then core Mesmer.
2) Elite Specs are sidegrades to core with new ways to play: Mesmer already has better tools to dodge while attacking, Mirage adds no new ways to play.
Are we playing the same game?
1) Mirage is better than any other SINGLE core trait line, obviously, it is not stronger than 2 or 3 combined.
2) Am I the only one who sees ambush skills, a whole new set of abilities only available to Mirage, as well as a whole new dodge mechanic being introduced to Mirage only. ooh and access to an Axe??
Just because it is not on your Chronomancer Elite Spec level doesn’t mean it is worse than a core or does not give new things to play with..
You are just so short sighted.. but i guess that is a natural response when being disappointed
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Dang.
Are we playing the same game?
1) Mirage is better than any other SINGLE core trait line, obviously, it is not stronger than 2 or 3 combined.
Oh boy, you just opened a can of worms you shouldn’t have. Here we go
A single core trait line that is better than Mirage:
Illusions. Dueling.
Inspiration.
Each of them is better than Mirage by themselves. How so?
Illusions:
Major Adept: Compounding Power gives you a huge damage boost no matter what style of play you choose. Additionally, you can finagle it to gain the bonus damage on all of shatter hits with well-timed illusion summons.
Minor Master: Reducing the cooldown on Illusion Summoning Skills means you now have Weapon and Utility skills that have lowered cooldowns (on top of traited weapons). This skill alone is a huge, huge, huge damage increase in all game modes (including PvE where you don’t want to be summoning all the time). Why? Lower ramp times, higher burst uptimes, and more tools to use.
Major Masters: Having options on Shatters or Phantasm AFK builds? Hell yes, and unlike Riddle of Sands, this bad boy actually scales per Illusion.
MoM: Reduced recharge of shatters is good unless you don’t use them (which is entirely possible). However, even without using this trait, it’s still good to have if you ever need to panic F4 (or F3).
GM: Phantasmal Force and Malicious Sorcery are both huge damage increases. Additionally, Malicious Sorcery improves your cast speed on all abilities, effectively giving you mini-Quickness (that stacks with Quickness). That means you can get both your damage and utility out faster. Compare that to Infinite Horizon and Dune Cloak and this is significantly better (20% increased speed on all actions is effectively 20% bonus damage, slightly lower, but that’s significantly more damage than being able to shift 300 Expertise into a mixture of Power/Precision/Condition Damage).
Dueling:
Minor Adept: Critical Infusion. This skill has been and will still be our main source of Vigor. It used to have 100% uptime, but now requires 100% boon duration to reach that. Still, having 50% Vigor uptime with no investment is a huge power bonus, especially compared to Mirage’s “Gain 3s Vigor when Shattering” oh boy!
Major Adept: Phantasmal Fury means that you don’t have to account for your Phantasms maybe having Fury, which is nice when attempting to maximize damage output. Duelist’s Discipline is one of our largest sources of Condition Damage, outside of weapon skills. The other largest source is…
Minor Master: Sharper Images will always be good. Paired with Phantasms having Fury (or not, if you want DD), this skill is just free damage no matter how you play Mesmer. Even if you’re a power build. The only time this trait was ever bad was when condi caps were at 25 and that’s if you had a condi person in your group, which was rare.
Masters: Reflects after successful evades? That means you only have to use one dodge against ranged attacks instead of blasting both to survive huge harass. Blinding Dissipation helps immensely keeping melee pressure while giving you some relief. This gives you a LOT more relief than Mirage Mantle. Fencer’s Finesse is huge. Reduced Recharge on sword skills means that you get more Sword dodges, Phantasms, Leaps,and Blocks. Additionally, 10% Critical Damage is just icing on the cake if you’re using a power build.
Master Fencer: 100% Fury Uptime vs targets below 75% hp? Um, sign me up. Oh I don’t even need to sign? Well then. I think this is much better than getting movement in our dodge… back…
GM: Superiority Complex oh boy, this guy got swole super fast. Harmonious Mantras went to the Gym and figured out how to use the weights. Now he’s back and better than ever. 15% Critical Damage is roughly equal to 225 Ferocity, except that it’s not Ferocity so it MULTIPLIES your ferocity. That means you get more out of Fencer’s Finesse. Oh and if the enemy is below 50% health, this multiplier goes up to 25%. Considering Mesmer is almost always at a high crit rate, this is just a flat damage increase on non-Illusion damage, and not one to scoff at.
Ineptitude is back and better than ever, but it now has to fight with a Superiority Complex, and that’s a hard battle to win. However, it mixed two traits, and applying blind to someone who has blind still inflicts confusion, so that’s really nice. Toss in a whirl onto a smoke field and you’ve just added a condi burst equal to whirl on chaos field, but you’ve also blinded them.
Deceptive Evasion has and always will be a useful trait. However, this guy is in an awkward spot because his brothers are finally major contenders in the PvP scene.
Inspiration:
Mender’s Purity is huge. Usable in PvE and PvP. Heck, with Mantra of Recovery you get 2 casts (sadly the charge does not proc this). Do be careful, if you finish your cast while in mid-air (jump or falling), the trait does not cast. RIP.
Medic’s Feedback has it’s uses. It increases reflect uptime, particularly when your group is bad. If your group isn’t bad, you can do an F-cancel on NPC’s to drop the Feedback. This is particularly useful in dungeons.
Restorative Mantras is my go-to. It makes my Mantra of Recovery a powerful on-demand heal skill that also condi-cleanses. If I know I’m safe, I’ll hold the charges. If I know I’m going to need heal, I leave it uncharged and then proc all 3 heals back to back. Sure, it’s weaker than Ether Feast and comparable with SotE, but I like the flexibility in the uses and I don’t feel guilty when using it (unlike SotE). Additionally, if you use this trait with all mantras equipped vs Crystalline Entities, you can have ~75k dps while surviving to near 30 stacks of Green Light without any teammate help (Arah shenanigans).
Persisting Images sort of helps with Phantasm squishiness. I think this guy is pretty weak compared to his brothers, but worst case scenario he adds a tad bit of DPS. I liked when he gave Phants perma Retal. I don’t know of many people who use this unless they don’t see themselves utilizing the other two.
Inspiring Distortion is an amazing skill. This is useful in PvP and PvE and is actually how many mechanics in Raids are circumnavigated. This skill is a godsend by itself since, without taking other traits into effect, it’s effectively on a 45s cd. That’s still amazing, though.
Warden’s Feedback gives Mesmer’s huge reflect uptime. Not sure what else I can say about this guy.
Restorative Illusions is on-demand condi-cleanse + panic heals. Solid choice and good fallback if you won’t utilize the others. You can always utilize this.
Protected Phantasms, ok I think this one is worse than Persisting Images and should probably be merged, but the synergy on with Persistence of Memory is… interesting.
Healing Prism is great. It used to be really, really powerful and I think the ICD should be removed or lowered and the healing should instead have a small base and scale with the amount healed instead of a static heal amount. Regardless, this guy paired with Restorative Mantras means you get some nice passive heals on allies.
GM: Free Phantasmal Defenders, Regen + Free Signet of Inspiration, and Resistance + Superspeed? All of these are solid choices depending on your usages. The Regen + SoI is amazing for boonshare and absolutely necessary for most support builds. The Glamour one is outshined, but it can still be useful (unlike Protected Phantasms).
2) Am I the only one who sees ambush skills, a whole new set of abilities only available to Mirage, as well as a whole new dodge mechanic being introduced to Mirage only. ooh and access to an Axe??
We all see it, it’s just absolutely terrible because it offers so little. Yes, we have more, but we don’t have uses for it. Most of the utilities provide us with things we already have, just worse because they have Mirage Mirrors tied to them which justifies (?) them being objectively weaker. The weapon has terrible scaling with both power and condi (you’re better off using Scepter or Sword). The ambushes are all pretty bad, with the good ones being Staff and Scepter. Scepter is pretty weak because it takes too long and the clones have half duration. Staff has a target cap of 5, so.. uh, have fun with that? Also projectiles. Why so many projectiles? Axe, Scepter, and Staff all use projectiles which leave them vulnerable to being avoided (even in PvE!!), destroyed, or even reflected (even in PvE!!).
But hey, we get a dodge that removes our movement so we got that going for us. Oh wait, no sorry they give us our movement back but only if we run forward and it takes up our Minor GM slot.
That reminds me of something. Thief used to gain 50% of a dodge (25% of endurance bar) when dodging. This meant they had 3 dodges if they took Acrobatics (it was a Minor). When the HoT pre-patch hit, they removed that trait because they “gave it back” as Daredevil’s third dodge. Of course, that was built into the Minor Adept that gives the class mechanic. They didn’t lose it, only to regain it as a Minor Grandmaster. Admittedly, having 3 dodges + each dodge giving 50% of a dodge meant you’d have 5.5 dodges from 3. It felt weird losing something only to be given it back as a new class mechanic. Hmmmm… well at least they don’t also lose a Minor GM.
Just because it is not on your Chronomancer Elite Spec level doesn’t mean it is worse than a core or does not give new things to play with..
You are just so short sighted.. but i guess that is a natural response when being disappointed
If you’re so broad/far-sighted, please explain to me how Mirage is good or an upgrade to Mesmer.
The literal only upgrades I see are: Illusion Retarget via IAmbush and Axe3. 150 Condition Damage + 300 Expertise vs Chaos’ Conditional 100-250 Condition Damage + 0-495 Expertise.
The Ambushes are DPS losses if focused on and only Staff (not a good sustained damage weapon) and Scepter (get rooted on a spec about being able to move while casting whew!) can utilize theirs (albeit very awkwardly).
Well theres the problem isn’t it. You have two choices Durzlla
1) Elite Specs are better then core: Mirage is useless because its weaker then core Mesmer.
2) Elite Specs are sidegrades to core with new ways to play: Mesmer already has better tools to dodge while attacking, Mirage adds no new ways to play.
Are we playing the same game?
1) Mirage is better than any other SINGLE core trait line, obviously, it is not stronger than 2 or 3 combined.2) Am I the only one who sees ambush skills, a whole new set of abilities only available to Mirage, as well as a whole new dodge mechanic being introduced to Mirage only. ooh and access to an Axe??
Just because it is not on your Chronomancer Elite Spec level doesn’t mean it is worse than a core or does not give new things to play with..
You are just so short sighted.. but i guess that is a natural response when being disappointed
Read what Esplen wrote, better yet, actually play the class outside of open world and get a basic understanding of Mesmer before commenting please.
I’m tired of having people argue stuff who are so dislocated from the class and/or meta that they are caught by suprise about new builds over 3 weeks after they have been introduced with the most recent patch.
Now I get, not everyone runs to a training golem or follows qtfy or other raid guilds every new discovery or even cares, in those cases though please realise that you are nothing but anoying noise as far as class balance goes. There are those of us though who actually main this class with 2k and above hours played on it in all game modes.
Mirage is at best a side grade to some of our weaker core mesmer traitlines like chaos (ever since the upgrades with the August 8 patch) and considering how many clunky and unharmonious design decisions it brings with it, not considering it an upgrade is absolutely valid.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.
You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.
I see everyone complaining about the new dodge, I honestly don’t think that this is the problem with Mirage, you get an awesome elite that makes up for the leap, the problem lies in other places like the lack of movement speed, a fairly mediocore new weapon with messy animations/mechanics (why the kitten is it an Axe to begin with?) and Infinite Horizon being close to useless unless you play condi or use sword for the daze.
I see everyone complaining about the new dodge, I honestly don’t think that this is the problem with Mirage, you get an awesome elite that makes up for the leap, the problem lies in other places like the lack of movement speed, a fairly mediocore new weapon with messy animations/mechanics (why the kitten is it an Axe to begin with?) and Infinite Horizon being close to useless unless you play condi or use sword for the daze.
Woah run-on sentence.
Main problem (imo) with the dodge: You don’t move. Saying that it’s not a big deal because we get Superspeed is a problem. Why? The Superspeed is a consolation prize. It’s our Minor Grandmaster. It’s not built into the dodge. Also, it doesn’t work when doing anything except running forward (which prevents us from sidestepping while casting, thereby negating the point of being able to cast “while dodging”).
But you get an elite skill that makes up for it! I’m sorry, but it’s not very good game design to “give” players a worse version of something they already have and then ask them to take a skill on their bar (effectively taking away our Elite skill) to compensate. Now I’m not saying that Jaunt is bad, but if your point is that the dodge sucking is made up for by the Elite, then you’re actually building my counterpoint for me. The point isn’t to have a mechanic that forces you to run something to compensate. It’s to give you more options. Being asked to run an elite to make up for lost movement is self-defeating.
The lack of movement speed is not an issue with this spec. It provides plenty of in-combat mobility (which Mesmer already has plenty of access to) and is being released in a spec with Mounts. The only game mode where lack of movement speed ends up being a problem is s/tPvP and can be accounted for with Runes (same deal with normal Mes).
The new weapon is messy, but it’s mostly due to a lack of scaling (power) and low condition output. Fun note: You do more damage with Power based Scepter than Power based Axe. You also do more Condition Damage. It being Axe is meaningless. What you should focus on is that it’s a mainhand weapon. What weapon we get doesn’t change anything, just the skin of what we use. It could be a Pistol and it would still be bad. Sure, I don’t like Axe skins, but that’s an opinion (and has nothing to do with why the Axe has a bad skillset).
Infinite Horizon is bad even if you play condi or use Sword (dazes don’t stack duration, and it’s really hard to stagger a leap off of ai commands). Also, the Sword Ambush is only good because it’s a leap, not because it’s a daze.
Final statement: The only thing that Mirage gives us that’s actually useful is illusion retarget and it’s on a 30/10/8 second cooldown for Utility/Axe/TraitedAxe respectively. A separate complaint (of mine) is that the utility should be slightly better, give it charges (even if they each have 30s cooldowns) because retargeting every 30s is… uh… a bit sloppy, at best.
I see everyone complaining about the new dodge, I honestly don’t think that this is the problem with Mirage, you get an awesome elite that makes up for the leap, the problem lies in other places like the lack of movement speed, a fairly mediocore new weapon with messy animations/mechanics (why the kitten is it an Axe to begin with?) and Infinite Horizon being close to useless unless you play condi or use sword for the daze.
Because its a massive problem with the spec. Everything else about it is terrible too but the new mechanic is just horrendous.
Look at Scourge it takes Necro’s defensive focused class mechanic and completely changes it into an offensive focused, area control attacks with lots of versatility, giving them things they have been asking for.
Look at Soulbeast, allows them to merge with their class mechanic providing an insane amount of versatility, allowing them to take direct control of certain pet attacks and allowing them to camp the mode for situations where having pets/minions/illusions is useless or an actual detriment, all things they have been asking for.
Look at Mirage, our new mechanic is our dodge, the foundation of the entire combat system, is worse. Thats it. No new or changes to F abilities, no changes to phantasms or how they fight against shatters (oh wait now its worth keeping clones up as well so the whole class mechanic is fighting against itself even more), nothing for situations where illusions are worthless and no new ways to play. Not a single thing we have been asking for.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.
You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.
“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.
I see everyone complaining about the new dodge, I honestly don’t think that this is the problem with Mirage, you get an awesome elite that makes up for the leap, the problem lies in other places like the lack of movement speed, a fairly mediocore new weapon with messy animations/mechanics (why the kitten is it an Axe to begin with?) and Infinite Horizon being close to useless unless you play condi or use sword for the daze.
Because its a massive problem with the spec. Everything else about it is terrible too but the new mechanic is just horrendous.
Look at Scourge it takes Necro’s defensive focused class mechanic and completely changes it into an offensive focused, area control attacks with lots of versatility, giving them things they have been asking for.
Look at Soulbeast, allows them to merge with their class mechanic providing an insane amount of versatility, allowing them to take direct control of certain pet attacks and allowing them to camp the mode for situations where having pets/minions/illusions is useless or an actual detriment, all things they have been asking for.
Look at Mirage, our new mechanic is our dodge, the foundation of the entire combat system, is worse. Thats it. No new or changes to F abilities, no changes to phantasms or how they fight against shatters (oh wait now its worth keeping clones up as well so the whole class mechanic is fighting against itself even more), nothing for situations where illusions are worthless and no new ways to play. Not a single thing we have been asking for.
Meanwhile a scourge will still need an ele to be viable because you can be kited by everything.
I see everyone complaining about the new dodge, I honestly don’t think that this is the problem with Mirage, you get an awesome elite that makes up for the leap, the problem lies in other places like the lack of movement speed, a fairly mediocore new weapon with messy animations/mechanics (why the kitten is it an Axe to begin with?) and Infinite Horizon being close to useless unless you play condi or use sword for the daze.
Woah run-on sentence.
Main problem (imo) with the dodge: You don’t move. Saying that it’s not a big deal because we get Superspeed is a problem. Why? The Superspeed is a consolation prize. It’s our Minor Grandmaster. It’s not built into the dodge. Also, it doesn’t work when doing anything except running forward (which prevents us from sidestepping while casting, thereby negating the point of being able to cast “while dodging”).
Also, the super speed and the ambushes are incompatible. You’re either going to be using the ambush attack (which locks you into an animation or requires you to be at least facing your target), or you forgo the primary advantage of Mirage Cloak to utilize the super speed to reposition.
More contradictory mechanics, please!
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.
You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.
“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.
You’re being painfully dense.
Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.
You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.
“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.
You’re being painfully dense.
Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.
Again why would a group ive up a chrono for a mirage? They are 2 diff things. Also im seeing these claims that mirage is trash in pve. Again, did you test it in raids or fractals?
(edited by zealex.9410)
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.
You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.
“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.
You’re being painfully dense.
Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.
Read through some of zealex past posts on mesmer and his point of view.
Realise he is a huge troll and/or so bad at mesmer that any disscussion with him is wasted.
Move on and ignore him since he has literally been wrong about everything mesmer related for the last 6 months while at the same time calling for continued mesmer nerfs left and right.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.
You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.
“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.
You’re being painfully dense.
Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.
Read through some of zealex past posts on mesmer and his point of view.
Realise he is a huge troll and/or so bad at mesmer that any disscussion with him is wasted.
Move on and ignore him since he has literally been wrong about everything mesmer related for the last 6 months while at the same time calling for continued mesmer nerfs left and right.
Meanwhile every “good mesmer” treats the class like its barely functioning and overly up. Next time before you go say im trolling ppl do read the post use yr brain and then a make an arguement against it.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.
You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.
“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.
You’re being painfully dense.
Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.
Read through some of zealex past posts on mesmer and his point of view.
Realise he is a huge troll and/or so bad at mesmer that any disscussion with him is wasted.
Move on and ignore him since he has literally been wrong about everything mesmer related for the last 6 months while at the same time calling for continued mesmer nerfs left and right.
Meanwhile every “good mesmer” treats the class like its barely functioning and overly up. Next time before you go say im trolling ppl do read the post use yr brain and then a make an arguement against it.
Every “good mesmer” is dealing with the classes issues, hasn’t been harping about nerfs for chronomancer or power mesmer buffs after august 8 always humming the same song about how Mirage is going to fix everything.
When was the last time you spent some time analysing new and old skills or actually played the class or gave an analysis besides “you are all wrong, I am right”? Exactly, never.
The good thing though is, everyone can actually look up your posting history and see for themselves just how terrible you are at balance ideas or mesmer in general.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.
You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.
“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.
You’re being painfully dense.
Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.
Read through some of zealex past posts on mesmer and his point of view.
Realise he is a huge troll and/or so bad at mesmer that any disscussion with him is wasted.
Move on and ignore him since he has literally been wrong about everything mesmer related for the last 6 months while at the same time calling for continued mesmer nerfs left and right.
Meanwhile every “good mesmer” treats the class like its barely functioning and overly up. Next time before you go say im trolling ppl do read the post use yr brain and then a make an arguement against it.
Every “good mesmer” is dealing with the classes issues, hasn’t been harping about nerfs for chronomancer or power mesmer buffs after august 8 always humming the same song about how Mirage is going to fix everything.
When was the last time you spent some time analysing new and old skills or actually played the class or gave an analysis besides “you are all wrong, I am right”? Exactly, never.
The good thing though is, everyone can actually look up your posting history and see for themselves just how terrible you are at balance ideas or mesmer in general.
I never said anything along the lines of “mirage will fix mesmer”. Or nerf power mesmer.
Iv spend quite some time discussing mesmer changes with ppl so i have yeah. As for y terrible suggestions ye they’re there feel free to take look might help you give better feedback instead of blowing the same “mirage is useless” horn.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.
You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.
“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.
You’re being painfully dense.
Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.
Again why would a group ive up a chrono for a mirage? They are 2 diff things. Also im seeing these claims that mirage is trash in pve. Again, did you test it in raids or fractals?
Yes, two different things, like a PS warrior and condi warrior. And the reason people allow a warrior to go condi DPS and not PS is because the alternative does enough damage to merit a raid slot.
Mirage does not. It doesn’t take raid testing to know a spec’s numbers. All you needed is a golem to know the potential output. And mirage’s output is just bad.
Oh I’m sorry I missed the part where you can dodge mid cast without interrupting as well as the part of Mirage that disallows them to use signets, sword, and the domination line.
The whole point of giving us a worse dodge is so we can carry on attacking while dodging. Mesmer provides better tools to do it. Mirage is pointless.
No need to be so confrontational.
Mesmer doesn’t give us better tools to do it though since we can use all of those tools while also having the tools the Mirage has, that’s what my post was saying.
Mirage doesn’t prevent you from using ANY of those tools from the core class, the only thing it takes away is the short roll from dodging, but if you really need that mobility you can trade out your elite for jaunt.
Mirage also takes an entire traitline and replaces it with a completely worthless one that has no throughput or group support traits outside the single two grandmasters.
So, yes, you are most definitely losing something by taking Mirage.
Doesnt have group support. Ok? Your point?
If it can’t support, it better exceed as a DPS role in a raid setting in a manner competitive to warrior/thief/guardian. It doesn’t.
You will NEVER be allowed to play Mirage in PvE over chrono so long as mirage stays a garbage DPS spec.
“Play mirage over chrono”. Since when chrono was a dps role and mirage or any other dps had to compete witht he chrono? Do you see what you are writing u dont make ANY sense. Also, when did you get to try mirage again in raids? Esp now that confusions an torment have bleed ticks.
You’re being painfully dense.
Chrono is a support role. A top tier, necessary support role. A raid won’t give up that role so you can play an inferior DPS spec. Which is why you need a top tier DPS spec, which the mirage isn’t.
Read through some of zealex past posts on mesmer and his point of view.
Realise he is a huge troll and/or so bad at mesmer that any disscussion with him is wasted.
Move on and ignore him since he has literally been wrong about everything mesmer related for the last 6 months while at the same time calling for continued mesmer nerfs left and right.
Meanwhile every “good mesmer” treats the class like its barely functioning and overly up. Next time before you go say im trolling ppl do read the post use yr brain and then a make an arguement against it.
Every “good mesmer” is dealing with the classes issues, hasn’t been harping about nerfs for chronomancer or power mesmer buffs after august 8 always humming the same song about how Mirage is going to fix everything.
When was the last time you spent some time analysing new and old skills or actually played the class or gave an analysis besides “you are all wrong, I am right”? Exactly, never.
The good thing though is, everyone can actually look up your posting history and see for themselves just how terrible you are at balance ideas or mesmer in general.
I never said anything along the lines of “mirage will fix mesmer”. Or nerf power mesmer.
Iv spend quite some time discussing mesmer changes with ppl so i have yeah. As for y terrible suggestions ye they’re there feel free to take look might help you give better feedback instead of blowing the same “mirage is useless” horn.
You on power mesmer literally not even 1 day after the august 8 patch:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Either-make-power-mes-more-interesting
created by you, commented in by you, abadoned by you once you realised how silly you are looking.
In the next one you are going out of your way arguing that chronomancer and mesmer in general should lose distort with some more “interesting” arguments like comparing guardian auto attack rotation difficulty to mesmer rotation/job difficulty in raids or mesmer having always been a support class by design (which it is not, but purely due to it being craap at anything else):
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/ChronoTanks-and-alacrity/first
Let’s also not forget my favorit part of that thread where you literally state:
Overpowered doesnt mean everything it does is the best at that would be just broken. And i was talking more long term when mesmer gets a dps spec because they wont keep making suport specs. Then mesmer will have the ability to just go in have on par dps with other top dps classes and have distort to ignore mechanics.
Now we did get Mirage, it is not shaping up to be THE dps spec which you or others have hoped for, can we call all your arguments about how chrono should have been nerfed based on mesmer dps viability trash now?
I’m to lazy to go through threads where I was not forced to read through your nonsense, going through your posting history was painful enough and for anyone intersted there is certainly more there.