Guild Wars 2

You told us it was fixed last feature patch :
“18. Illusionary Elasticity trait.
Does not affect staff clones even though affects other clones.”
Dev: “18. Fixed on feature build if not on live.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/List-of-Mesmer-Bugs-Older-Thread/page/3#post3750901

Then you told us you were looking into it again : “Illusionary Elasticity: I’ll have this looked at again.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/List-of-Mesmer-Bugs-Older-Thread/page/6#post3907283

So is it safe to assume that it is %100 fixed this patch? You couldn’t lie to us again. right?

Safe to assume that it is 100% “fixed”, yeas.

Would LOVE to see this change, but I’m not getting my hopes up.

Yeah, this kind of broke my heart when it wasn’t fixed in the April 15 patch, so I’d be really happy if they something about it now. As you’ve pointed out, it’s been mentioned and seems to be intended for a fix, but we’ll see. I’m not getting my hopes up.

i am pretty sure they r gonna make it so that it wont affect any clones at all anymore!

It would be truly terrifying if staff clones got the double hit – shouldn’t be allowed imo.

Coulter.2315:

It would be truly terrifying if staff clones got the double hit – shouldn’t be allowed imo.

I think the real problem is that it’s hard to balance clones because they are so different and quirky.

All clones have the attack speed and direct damage from attacks toned down, BUT:

• Staff clones: the attack still applies damaging conditions
• Sword clones: the attack chain applies vulnerability
• Scepter clones: they only (re)play the first attack of autoattack chain, easiest clone to spot because it looks very different from the mesmer AA

The most “normal” one is the Greatsword clone, that replicates the autoattack at a lower pace (and with lower damage) (but can inflict bleeding on crits with the trait).

So the staff clones are the only ones that have a boucing attack that applies “real” damage on the target. Has this been considered in defining the amount of direct damage and number of stacks/duration on conditions from the mesmer autoattack? Is this the reason why staff clones are not working “by design” with Illusionary Elasticity (that would explain why ANet considers it “fixed”)? We don’t know.

This is only a small example of a subsystem of mesmer mechanics that require a full rework… but there’s bigger concerns in other areas, so I doubt ANet will ever look into it.

Warrior with just one sword mh – perma 25 stacks of bleed (with appropriate build/gear). Mesmer with 3 clones in with IE equipped currently (also min/maxed build & gear) – barely 15 perma stacks of bleeds. In no way Illusionary Elasticity will suddenly make staff be “OP”, just more viable as a primary condi weapon.

frifox.5283:

Warrior with just one sword mh – perma 25 stacks of bleed (with appropriate build/gear). Mesmer with 3 clones in with IE equipped currently (also min/maxed build & gear) – barely 15 perma stacks of bleeds. In no way Illusionary Elasticity will suddenly make staff be “OP”, just more viable as a primary condi weapon.

You’re talking nonsense if you think a warrior can reach never mind keep up 25 stacks of bleed in PvP, however giving staff clones a double hit which can proc Burning and have a 2nd chance at critting for Bleed will be OP. Staff clones are already the best, doubling Burning/Bleeding uptime for all mesmers using staff will do far more than you are thinking (this is not helped by how high base burning is – which needs looked at).

Constant varied condi application from multiple sources is very dangerous and not to be taken lightly – it would be a profound passive damage buff that I do not think mesmers need.

You need to not just think about fighting target dummies – 3 clones firing at different times with a bounce returning based on distance creates a wave of constant condi application which will overwhelm condi removal and hit inbetween dodges/CDs.

Its a buff but not one we should want – because it requires no skill or thought to achieve a powerful effect. (I’m sure we’ve all kittened and moaned about Feline Grace and Heal Sig – its that kind of thing)

DPS – Current No IE – 4 in Illusions – No gear – 621.34 DPS over 60 seconds
DPS – Current IE – 4 in Illusions – No gear – 826.15 DPS over 60 seconds
DPS – Fixed IE – 4 in Illusions – No gear – ~ 1226 DPS over 60 seconds (Aproximatif guess, since adding IE boosts DPS by 200 units, don’t think that works this way tho #frifox4help)

DPS – Sword Warrior – 4 in Arms – No gear – 603.72 DPS over 60 seconds
DPS – Sword Warrior with Deep Cuts – 4 in Arms – No gear – 1008.54 DPS over 60 seconds

Will come back with true condition specs for both classes.

Ok let’s look at offensive condi specs.

Krait runes – Rampager amulet – Agony + Earth sigil – 5 trait points spent in Precision and Condition damage lines

• Warrior (5 in Arms, Deep cut) – 2,576.47 DPS over 60 seconds
• Mesmer + Clones (5 in Dueling, 5 in Illusions, IE) -2,164.68 DPS over 60 seconds
• Clones alone (5 in Dueling, 5 in Illusions, IE) – 1,076.03 DPS over 60 seconds
• Clones alone with working IE (5 in Dueling, 5 in Illusions, IE) – 2152.06 DPS over 60 seconds
• Mesmer + Clones, working IE (5 in Dueling, 5 in Illusions, IE) – 3240.71 DPS over 60 seconds

Too good?

NB: Warrior reaches his DPS peak at about 10 seconds into the fight. Mesmer reaches his DPS peak at about 40 seconds into the fight.

Coulter.2315:

You’re talking nonsense if you think a warrior can reach never mind keep up 25 stacks of bleed in PvP, however giving staff clones a double hit which can proc Burning and have a 2nd chance at critting for Bleed will be OP.

I don’t do PvP, only PvE. Check out the video of one of my solos:
- https://youtube.com/watch?v=6hoZbQkK_7c

The times where I’m not dodging or kiting around – 25 bleeds, burning, and 5 stacks of torment. I tried achieving similar with a mesmer and couldn’t come even close. Fixing the trait to apply to clones will allow me to get closer but still nowhere as impressive as the warrior, even if I do somehow get my paper clones to stay alive and apply conditions throughout the whole fight. I tried. The best I could do was to rely on clone-death procs and just spam clones, which is even harder now with the fix where I can’t force clone deaths…

PS: https://youtube.com/watch?v=EJPpAGqjGp8

frifox.5283:

Coulter.2315:

You’re talking nonsense if you think a warrior can reach never mind keep up 25 stacks of bleed in PvP, however giving staff clones a double hit which can proc Burning and have a 2nd chance at critting for Bleed will be OP.

I don’t do PvP, only PvE.

Then you need to think of PvP when balancing.

Coulter.2315:

frifox.5283:

Coulter.2315:

You’re talking nonsense if you think a warrior can reach never mind keep up 25 stacks of bleed in PvP, however giving staff clones a double hit which can proc Burning and have a 2nd chance at critting for Bleed will be OP.

I don’t do PvP, only PvE.

Then you need to think of PvP when balancing.

Ok, lets think PvP.

I’m thinking of a fire field that covers an entire point, pulses every couple of seconds applying burning, and has a 7 second cooldown.

I’m thinking of a fast autoattack that cleaves and applies 8 second base duration bleeds.

I’m thinking of a kit that can be used point blank and applies long duration bleeds, burns, chill, and poison.

I’m thinking that bouncing staff clones probably aren’t going to match up to the insane condition application sets that a lot of classes have.

Fay.2357:

Coulter.2315:

frifox.5283:

Coulter.2315:

You’re talking nonsense if you think a warrior can reach never mind keep up 25 stacks of bleed in PvP, however giving staff clones a double hit which can proc Burning and have a 2nd chance at critting for Bleed will be OP.

I don’t do PvP, only PvE.

Then you need to think of PvP when balancing.

Ok, lets think PvP.

I’m thinking of a fire field that covers an entire point, pulses every couple of seconds applying burning, and has a 7 second cooldown.

I’m thinking of a fast autoattack that cleaves and applies 8 second base duration bleeds.

I’m thinking of a kit that can be used point blank and applies long duration bleeds, burns, chill, and poison.

I’m thinking that bouncing staff clones probably aren’t going to match up to the insane condition application sets that a lot of classes have.

With Distracting strikes thats + 5 Stacks of Confusion too.

Fay.2357:

Coulter.2315:

frifox.5283:

Coulter.2315:

You’re talking nonsense if you think a warrior can reach never mind keep up 25 stacks of bleed in PvP, however giving staff clones a double hit which can proc Burning and have a 2nd chance at critting for Bleed will be OP.

I don’t do PvP, only PvE.

Then you need to think of PvP when balancing.

Ok, lets think PvP.

I’m thinking of a fire field that covers an entire point, pulses every couple of seconds applying burning, and has a 7 second cooldown.

I’m thinking of a fast autoattack that cleaves and applies 8 second base duration bleeds.

I’m thinking of a kit that can be used point blank and applies long duration bleeds, burns, chill, and poison.

I’m thinking that bouncing staff clones probably aren’t going to match up to the insane condition application sets that a lot of classes have.

Warriors are OP, you don’t fix that with buffing Mesmers.. You fix that by nerfing Warriors. Please don’t confuse my attempts to keep Mesmers from being OP with me saying the game is perfectly balanced – you don’t help balance by adding more OP nonsense.

Coulter.2315:

Fay.2357:

Coulter.2315:

frifox.5283:

Coulter.2315:

You’re talking nonsense if you think a warrior can reach never mind keep up 25 stacks of bleed in PvP, however giving staff clones a double hit which can proc Burning and have a 2nd chance at critting for Bleed will be OP.

I don’t do PvP, only PvE.

Then you need to think of PvP when balancing.

Ok, lets think PvP.

I’m thinking of a fire field that covers an entire point, pulses every couple of seconds applying burning, and has a 7 second cooldown.

I’m thinking of a fast autoattack that cleaves and applies 8 second base duration bleeds.

I’m thinking of a kit that can be used point blank and applies long duration bleeds, burns, chill, and poison.

I’m thinking that bouncing staff clones probably aren’t going to match up to the insane condition application sets that a lot of classes have.

Warriors are OP, you don’t fix that with buffing Mesmers.. You fix that by nerfing Warriors. Please don’t confuse my attempts to keep Mesmers from being OP with me saying the game is perfectly balanced – you don’t help balance by adding more OP nonsense.

But yes you do, instead of nerfing classes, just buff them to be in par with warriors! :p

StickerHappy.8052:

Coulter.2315:

Fay.2357:

Coulter.2315:

frifox.5283:

Coulter.2315:

You’re talking nonsense if you think a warrior can reach never mind keep up 25 stacks of bleed in PvP, however giving staff clones a double hit which can proc Burning and have a 2nd chance at critting for Bleed will be OP.

I don’t do PvP, only PvE.

Then you need to think of PvP when balancing.

Ok, lets think PvP.

I’m thinking of a fire field that covers an entire point, pulses every couple of seconds applying burning, and has a 7 second cooldown.

I’m thinking of a fast autoattack that cleaves and applies 8 second base duration bleeds.

I’m thinking of a kit that can be used point blank and applies long duration bleeds, burns, chill, and poison.

I’m thinking that bouncing staff clones probably aren’t going to match up to the insane condition application sets that a lot of classes have.

Warriors are OP, you don’t fix that with buffing Mesmers.. You fix that by nerfing Warriors. Please don’t confuse my attempts to keep Mesmers from being OP with me saying the game is perfectly balanced – you don’t help balance by adding more OP nonsense.

But yes you do, instead of nerfing classes, just buff them to be in par with warriors! :p

Hehe no one would want to play that game though xD

Fay.2357:

Coulter.2315:

frifox.5283:

Coulter.2315:

You’re talking nonsense if you think a warrior can reach never mind keep up 25 stacks of bleed in PvP, however giving staff clones a double hit which can proc Burning and have a 2nd chance at critting for Bleed will be OP.

I don’t do PvP, only PvE.

Then you need to think of PvP when balancing.

Ok, lets think PvP.

I’m thinking of a fire field that covers an entire point, pulses every couple of seconds applying burning, and has a 7 second cooldown.

I’m thinking of a fast autoattack that cleaves and applies 8 second base duration bleeds.

I’m thinking of a kit that can be used point blank and applies long duration bleeds, burns, chill, and poison.

I’m thinking that bouncing staff clones probably aren’t going to match up to the insane condition application sets that a lot of classes have.

IE working plus whatever condi buffs are coming to scepter will make our arguably strongest spec (condi PU) even stronger. Fine with me but does condi PU need help? The QQ will be intense. Of course that is what I’ll be running if this is fixed lol. IE won’t be fixed though

it should definitely effect the clones in some way, even if they only have a 50% chance for an additional bounce, or bounce on crit or some other limitation, it should effect them in some way!

MSFone.3026:

IE working plus whatever condi buffs are coming to scepter will make our arguably strongest spec (condi PU) even stronger. Fine with me but does condi PU need help? The QQ will be intense. Of course that is what I’ll be running if this is fixed lol. IE won’t be fixed though

How in hell is PU related to condition damage? Hint : You don’t need to run PU to run condition spec.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

MSFone.3026:

IE working plus whatever condi buffs are coming to scepter will make our arguably strongest spec (condi PU) even stronger. Fine with me but does condi PU need help? The QQ will be intense. Of course that is what I’ll be running if this is fixed lol. IE won’t be fixed though

How in hell is PU related to condition damage? Hint : You don’t need to run PU to run condition spec.

He never said that PU and condition damage were related to each other; he was merely speaking of condi-PU being our ‘arguably strongest spec’; and tbh i can see his point. Condi PU already is the easiest-to-play configuration out there for mesmer and pretty strong (i would even go one step further calling it braindead cheese and OP, but everyone views this differently), and surely didn’t need any further buffs. Ofc the condibuff to scepter will benefit non-PU condibuilds as well, but thats not the point he was trying to make here

So why is everyone bringing up PU as the counterargument to any possible condition buff?

Coulter.2315:

StickerHappy.8052:

Coulter.2315:

Fay.2357:

Coulter.2315:

frifox.5283:

Coulter.2315:

You’re talking nonsense if you think a warrior can reach never mind keep up 25 stacks of bleed in PvP, however giving staff clones a double hit which can proc Burning and have a 2nd chance at critting for Bleed will be OP.

I don’t do PvP, only PvE.

Then you need to think of PvP when balancing.

Ok, lets think PvP.

I’m thinking of a fire field that covers an entire point, pulses every couple of seconds applying burning, and has a 7 second cooldown.

I’m thinking of a fast autoattack that cleaves and applies 8 second base duration bleeds.

I’m thinking of a kit that can be used point blank and applies long duration bleeds, burns, chill, and poison.

I’m thinking that bouncing staff clones probably aren’t going to match up to the insane condition application sets that a lot of classes have.

Warriors are OP, you don’t fix that with buffing Mesmers.. You fix that by nerfing Warriors. Please don’t confuse my attempts to keep Mesmers from being OP with me saying the game is perfectly balanced – you don’t help balance by adding more OP nonsense.

But yes you do, instead of nerfing classes, just buff them to be in par with warriors! :p

Hehe no one would want to play that game though xD

Nobody plays DotA2?

On one side our staff only really have 3 attacks, one with high cd (and more denial than damage) and other relies on high damage but fragile phantasm with 18s CD. You use those 2 weapon skills then got stuck at auto-attack for offense until you swap weapons (or use shatter or utility but you can use those with other weapon set as well). Having IE fix will at least add a little more offense to staff.

On the other hand this fix also kind of forces melee opponents to destroy your clones and suck up clone death conditions. But I don’t really see the problem in that, if they insisted on playing melee against clone death mesmers then it is really their own issue for generating tactical disadvantage.

Coulter.2315:

StickerHappy.8052:

Coulter.2315:

Fay.2357:

Coulter.2315:

frifox.5283:

Coulter.2315:

You’re talking nonsense if you think a warrior can reach never mind keep up 25 stacks of bleed in PvP, however giving staff clones a double hit which can proc Burning and have a 2nd chance at critting for Bleed will be OP.

I don’t do PvP, only PvE.

Then you need to think of PvP when balancing.

Ok, lets think PvP.

I’m thinking of a fire field that covers an entire point, pulses every couple of seconds applying burning, and has a 7 second cooldown.

I’m thinking of a fast autoattack that cleaves and applies 8 second base duration bleeds.

I’m thinking of a kit that can be used point blank and applies long duration bleeds, burns, chill, and poison.

I’m thinking that bouncing staff clones probably aren’t going to match up to the insane condition application sets that a lot of classes have.

Warriors are OP, you don’t fix that with buffing Mesmers.. You fix that by nerfing Warriors. Please don’t confuse my attempts to keep Mesmers from being OP with me saying the game is perfectly balanced – you don’t help balance by adding more OP nonsense.

But yes you do, instead of nerfing classes, just buff them to be in par with warriors! :p

Hehe no one would want to play that game though xD

It’s understandable that Arenanet is running the balance of this game more like a business and less like a game. -They surely wouldn’t want to anger a siginificant portion of their player base (Warriors).

Disappointing, but understandable.

This bug imo is the reason condi shatter is not viable atm.

PU builds don’t go into illusions tree and I doubt this would change.