Guild Wars 2

Chaos.3579:

selan.8354:

almost everything we have is single target. so yeah chaos storm is good but id like to have more aoe, so making ms a strong multitarget aoe would be great. if it was a stronger aoe i wouldnt mind it not being able to be cast on the move, but right now ms being stale and weak at the same time is not ideal. i do like the rest of our gs though. its one of my favorite weapons.
also chaos armor.. unnerf please. the nerf is ridiculous and made chaos armor kinda useless. but i agree a blastfinisher would be nice too.

I actually don’t like the idea of mesmer having much “controllable aoe”.
I love the fact that we are very single target with a little aoe that is somewhat hard to control (phantasms,shatters)

The issue however is that our very single target skills…..are meh. And this in combination with bugs that takes anet months to fix even though they broke it in the first place (warden). is unacceptable and hurts.

I love how mind stab works and feels. but it lacks power. It lacks a use that is a wow factor.
Now a damage buff would be great. Although I don’t feel that is what it needs.
And if it does get a damage buff I should hope it gets a dynamic damage buff. Aka how many boons the target has/ does not have gives increased damage< something like that.

Ok let’s get down what this skill absolutely needs.

1) a blast finisher……. DUH anet come on!
2) a better effect then just 1 measly boon in a crappy boon rip priority order

And let’s look at some options or combinations of options that anet can do to improve this skill including the above 2 requirements.

• improved boon rip priority order

• increased number of boons ripped

• make it steal the boon ripped

• make it currupt the boon removed (fear on stability rip….so many other possible use’s http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon )

• dynamic increased damage based on a factor such as number of boons on you or foe or both ect. (Tons of options to make this skill go from meh to WOW based on the situation.)
  (In my personal opinion the damage should increase by 10% per boon on the target. When fighting with gs we have a lot of trouble fighting tanky targets with tons of boons.
  Ele’s, guardians, thiefs with consume ecto, and specific boon bountiful builds on all of the other class’s comes to mind)
  Base damage with full zerker is like 500-1k. 1k-2k on crit. So I cant help but wonder what would happen if we got a 100%-150% damage ish increase resulting in something around 4k against a target with 10 or so boons. Would really change the feeling of weekness we have against those boon spammers.

And if my idea of corrupting the boon removed were to come through?
Watch as those that charge at us with stability run away in fear!!!!

Well you can be one of the few to say that, rest agree that mesmers do need more aoe along with rangers to be even more viable for zvz in wvw.

The more I’ve thought about it, the more I wouldn’t want this to be channeled, but the aoe either needs to be bigger or the boon strip should be more noticable. People hardly even use it for the boon strip, so I would even be fine with keeping the damage the same if that gets raised to compensate, and just make it like mind spike so it does extra damage with no boons on the target.

The Primary.6371:

Chaos.3579:

selan.8354:

almost everything we have is single target. so yeah chaos storm is good but id like to have more aoe, so making ms a strong multitarget aoe would be great. if it was a stronger aoe i wouldnt mind it not being able to be cast on the move, but right now ms being stale and weak at the same time is not ideal. i do like the rest of our gs though. its one of my favorite weapons.
also chaos armor.. unnerf please. the nerf is ridiculous and made chaos armor kinda useless. but i agree a blastfinisher would be nice too.

I actually don’t like the idea of mesmer having much “controllable aoe”.
I love the fact that we are very single target with a little aoe that is somewhat hard to control (phantasms,shatters)

The issue however is that our very single target skills…..are meh. And this in combination with bugs that takes anet months to fix even though they broke it in the first place (warden). is unacceptable and hurts.

I love how mind stab works and feels. but it lacks power. It lacks a use that is a wow factor.
Now a damage buff would be great. Although I don’t feel that is what it needs.
And if it does get a damage buff I should hope it gets a dynamic damage buff. Aka how many boons the target has/ does not have gives increased damage< something like that.

Ok let’s get down what this skill absolutely needs.

1) a blast finisher……. DUH anet come on!
2) a better effect then just 1 measly boon in a crappy boon rip priority order

And let’s look at some options or combinations of options that anet can do to improve this skill including the above 2 requirements.

• improved boon rip priority order

• increased number of boons ripped

• make it steal the boon ripped

• make it currupt the boon removed (fear on stability rip….so many other possible use’s http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon )

• dynamic increased damage based on a factor such as number of boons on you or foe or both ect. (Tons of options to make this skill go from meh to WOW based on the situation.)
  (In my personal opinion the damage should increase by 10% per boon on the target. When fighting with gs we have a lot of trouble fighting tanky targets with tons of boons.
  Ele’s, guardians, thiefs with consume ecto, and specific boon bountiful builds on all of the other class’s comes to mind)
  Base damage with full zerker is like 500-1k. 1k-2k on crit. So I cant help but wonder what would happen if we got a 100%-150% damage ish increase resulting in something around 4k against a target with 10 or so boons. Would really change the feeling of weekness we have against those boon spammers.

And if my idea of corrupting the boon removed were to come through?
Watch as those that charge at us with stability run away in fear!!!!

Well you can be one of the few to say that, rest agree that mesmers do need more aoe along with rangers to be even more viable for zvz in wvw.

read my other post.
anyway the basic thing is this.
mesmer is perfectly fine in all other areas in the game. small group large group ect. however when it comes down to 20+ zerging cluster ****’s….well…..we are not able to dps because our damage comes from something that is instantly destroyed in that situation. while if zerging was fixed and more spread out. we would be fine.

Raunchy.6891:

The more I’ve thought about it, the more I wouldn’t want this to be channeled, but the aoe either needs to be bigger or the boon strip should be more noticable. People hardly even use it for the boon strip, so I would even be fine with keeping the damage the same if that gets raised to compensate, and just make it like mind spike so it does extra damage with no boons on the target.

I’ve always wanted it to have a better boon strip order…..removes 1swiftness before stability facepalm.

Although a interesting idea that i think would be fun Is instead of ripping the boon is corrupts it….so stability….turns to fear…..so much potential

Chaos.3579:

Raunchy.6891:

The more I’ve thought about it, the more I wouldn’t want this to be channeled, but the aoe either needs to be bigger or the boon strip should be more noticable. People hardly even use it for the boon strip, so I would even be fine with keeping the damage the same if that gets raised to compensate, and just make it like mind spike so it does extra damage with no boons on the target.

I’ve always wanted it to have a better boon strip order…..removes 1swiftness before stability facepalm.

Although a interesting idea that i think would be fun Is instead of ripping the boon is corrupts it….so stability….turns to fear…..so much potential

I think corrupting boons should be solely a necro thing. Just like stripping them is ours.

Raunchy.6891:

Chaos.3579:

Raunchy.6891:

The more I’ve thought about it, the more I wouldn’t want this to be channeled, but the aoe either needs to be bigger or the boon strip should be more noticable. People hardly even use it for the boon strip, so I would even be fine with keeping the damage the same if that gets raised to compensate, and just make it like mind spike so it does extra damage with no boons on the target.

I’ve always wanted it to have a better boon strip order…..removes 1swiftness before stability facepalm.

Although a interesting idea that i think would be fun Is instead of ripping the boon is corrupts it….so stability….turns to fear…..so much potential

I think corrupting boons should be solely a necro thing. Just like stripping them is ours.

The thing about mesmer is we use skills and abilities from all class’s. Whirling attack on our berserker is from war. Warden is ranger axe whirling attack. Ect. You can see this with our phantasms and a few other skills. So really having a weak version of necro’s corrupt boon (1 boon corrupted instead of 5 or 3) would be perfectly fine

Spurnshadow.3678:

selan.8354:

i see your points chaos, but i dont think a lightarmor class should be a duelist only. i think we should have the option to spec for aoe at least so we can also be viable in other gamemodes like wvwv raids! thats my only problem and frustration i have with my mes. i would love it otherwise, but the utilitybot role is sooo frustrating!
but yeah i mean mind stab is a joke the way it is right now. we cant cast it while moving and it deals like no dmg….seriously? i would like more interrupts on my mes, so it would be nice if ms could interrupt, but i still want it to be aoe. we got wayyy to many single target skills. i know many people love roaming and duels, well i like wvw and wvw raids so when i see a suggestion, i always try to think of a zergfight and ms as a real aoe could be really helpful.

One of my characters is a mesmer, over 2000 hours, on Blackgate. I primarily WvW. It is great in WvW. I am usually within 600 range of the commander. I hit like a truck, very tough, and offer great team support. Just don’t play a utility kitten role or try to compromise with the commander and use only one skill for utility, like veil, or just get used to swapping it out when you know your commander is going to want it.

Also, lest everyone forget, iZerker hits an infinite amount of targets. It just has a strange hit pattern, but it hits much more than 5 people.

wlll yes u are on bg.. u run with 50-60 other people around as i can see in our current matchup. but not everyone gets to run with such massive blobs around. my guild runs with max 22 people and we zergbust which used to be fun on my mes, but now i swapped my mes out with ele and necro. i think though the whole problem is, that most of those blobs are mainly cc oriented adn mes has no stability…and no the mantra is really not a good option. yes of course u can kite, but not if the whole battle area is filled with 60 people which is 40+ melle hammer cc train main blob. and the rest is gankers and a eles.
i swapped to shatter spec because eventough pu helps to survive, with shatter ican at least do some dmg.
but honestly i prefer my necro because i am a light armor that should do aoe dmg and not be a lightarmor version of thief/ranger mix because thats what mes is atm.
all im asking for is to opportunity to spec for zergfights, which means very little ai and more aoe. thats why glam was so strong.it was non ai based and thats what im missing since the terrible nerfs.
so yeah ms should be an aoe option or even aoe cc.

Chaos.3579:

Raunchy.6891:

Chaos.3579:

Raunchy.6891:

The more I’ve thought about it, the more I wouldn’t want this to be channeled, but the aoe either needs to be bigger or the boon strip should be more noticable. People hardly even use it for the boon strip, so I would even be fine with keeping the damage the same if that gets raised to compensate, and just make it like mind spike so it does extra damage with no boons on the target.

I’ve always wanted it to have a better boon strip order…..removes 1swiftness before stability facepalm.

Although a interesting idea that i think would be fun Is instead of ripping the boon is corrupts it….so stability….turns to fear…..so much potential

I think corrupting boons should be solely a necro thing. Just like stripping them is ours.

The thing about mesmer is we use skills and abilities from all class’s. Whirling attack on our berserker is from war. Warden is ranger axe whirling attack. Ect. You can see this with our phantasms and a few other skills. So really having a weak version of necro’s corrupt boon (1 boon corrupted instead of 5 or 3) would be perfectly fine

The only reason those are fine is because they’re phantasms. They’re supposed to give the illusion of an ally coming to help us. Since Mind Stab doesn’t work in this way, I find it harder to explain really.

Raunchy.6891:

Chaos.3579:

Raunchy.6891:

Chaos.3579:

Raunchy.6891:

The more I’ve thought about it, the more I wouldn’t want this to be channeled, but the aoe either needs to be bigger or the boon strip should be more noticable. People hardly even use it for the boon strip, so I would even be fine with keeping the damage the same if that gets raised to compensate, and just make it like mind spike so it does extra damage with no boons on the target.

I’ve always wanted it to have a better boon strip order…..removes 1swiftness before stability facepalm.

Although a interesting idea that i think would be fun Is instead of ripping the boon is corrupts it….so stability….turns to fear…..so much potential

I think corrupting boons should be solely a necro thing. Just like stripping them is ours.

The thing about mesmer is we use skills and abilities from all class’s. Whirling attack on our berserker is from war. Warden is ranger axe whirling attack. Ect. You can see this with our phantasms and a few other skills. So really having a weak version of necro’s corrupt boon (1 boon corrupted instead of 5 or 3) would be perfectly fine

The only reason those are fine is because they’re phantasms. They’re supposed to give the illusion of an ally coming to help us. Since Mind Stab doesn’t work in this way, I find it harder to explain really.

Actually it’s not just phantasms. Several of our utility skills mirror other class’s skills. Granted in some case’s they are weaker effects but they are still inspired By other class’s.
Additionally there are some skills we have that take after 2 class’s.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion_of_Life
Is similar to
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Undeath and war banner the warrior elite skill.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Thievery
Is like a combination of
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathly_Swarm
And a thiefs steal ability either on sword dagger 3 skill. Or steal when traited with bountiful thief.

There are many many more. However the idea is that we are a mental class. We get in to the minds of our enemies and of course that has its benefits. Benefits being exploiting powers against its user. Granted they are weaker then there original form……because they are illusions, and mind games

Additionally we as Mesmers being a mental class can steal enemy boons. As well as rip the. So why can’t we corrupt them?
Granted necro should be better at it in terms of number of boons corrupted and number of skills and traits with the corrupt boon effect.
Just as thief should be better at stealing boons then we are.

Corrupting a enemy boon actually fits the mesmer class. Think about it….we get in your head….find a lovely little boon you pride yourself on….then turn your strength in To your weakness. We can mess with your mind and make you lose your stability…….and even strike fear in you with your worst nightmares. Fits Mesmer perfectly I think.
It would fit “mind stab”…we stab our gs in to the ground and up in to your head…..how does that not make you afraid?

omg yeah i would loooove to be able to corrupt a boon. i think though as a mesmer stuff like corrupt boon would fit perfectly, we use the enemys strengths against them like illusionary counter does, so corrupting a boon would sorta make sense. i would love to see more punishing in the mesmer class. confusion was the ultimate punisher and it got taken away, but then again in the current meta i doubt confusion in its old form would still be soo strong.

Chaos.3579:

Actually it’s not just phantasms. Several of our utility skills mirror other class’s skills. Granted in some case’s they are weaker effects but they are still inspired By other class’s.
Additionally there are some skills we have that take after 2 class’s.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion_of_Life
Is similar to
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Undeath and war banner the warrior elite skill.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Thievery
Is like a combination of
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathly_Swarm
And a thiefs steal ability either on sword dagger 3 skill. Or steal when traited with bountiful thief.

There are many many more. However the idea is that we are a mental class. We get in to the minds of our enemies and of course that has its benefits. Benefits being exploiting powers against its user. Granted they are weaker then there original form……because they are illusions, and mind games

Additionally we as Mesmers being a mental class can steal enemy boons. As well as rip the. So why can’t we corrupt them?
Granted necro should be better at it in terms of number of boons corrupted and number of skills and traits with the corrupt boon effect.
Just as thief should be better at stealing boons then we are.

Corrupting a enemy boon actually fits the mesmer class. Think about it….we get in your head….find a lovely little boon you pride yourself on….then turn your strength in To your weakness. We can mess with your mind and make you lose your stability…….and even strike fear in you with your worst nightmares. Fits Mesmer perfectly I think.
It would fit “mind stab”…we stab our gs in to the ground and up in to your head…..how does that not make you afraid?

Just letting you know, every class has a group revive skill so I wouldn’t say we take after another class in that aspect. I’ll admit that Arcane Thievery can fit with your point but that skill switches boons and conditions on us which I think fits entirely around the mesmer concept. It’s similar to stealing boons like a thief, but we have the added effect of switching the conditions which completely coincides with us being an ethereal, hard to pin down class that tricks you into thinking you’re strong and then quickly levels the playing field.

Corrupting anything in general just doesn’t seem like something a mesmer should be able to do. It doesn’t fit their archetype. Think about it, an ethereal and arcane magic user that mostly tries to trick enemies for some reason is corrupting them? If people like the idea then so be it, but boon stripping fits us much better than boon corrupting.

Edit: Also, some things should just stay class specific.

What if the skill would always rip Stability, if possible? On top of one other boon?

1. Something like Arcane Thievery but for 2 boons-conditions and
2. If no boon on target – immobilize.

I vote for 1 and 4
However if ArenaNet finaly decideds on actualy doing this update, when would it be?

Chaos.3579:

The Primary.6371:

Chaos.3579:

selan.8354:

almost everything we have is single target. so yeah chaos storm is good but id like to have more aoe, so making ms a strong multitarget aoe would be great. if it was a stronger aoe i wouldnt mind it not being able to be cast on the move, but right now ms being stale and weak at the same time is not ideal. i do like the rest of our gs though. its one of my favorite weapons.
also chaos armor.. unnerf please. the nerf is ridiculous and made chaos armor kinda useless. but i agree a blastfinisher would be nice too.

I actually don’t like the idea of mesmer having much “controllable aoe”.
I love the fact that we are very single target with a little aoe that is somewhat hard to control (phantasms,shatters)

The issue however is that our very single target skills…..are meh. And this in combination with bugs that takes anet months to fix even though they broke it in the first place (warden). is unacceptable and hurts.

I love how mind stab works and feels. but it lacks power. It lacks a use that is a wow factor.
Now a damage buff would be great. Although I don’t feel that is what it needs.
And if it does get a damage buff I should hope it gets a dynamic damage buff. Aka how many boons the target has/ does not have gives increased damage< something like that.

Ok let’s get down what this skill absolutely needs.

1) a blast finisher……. DUH anet come on!
2) a better effect then just 1 measly boon in a crappy boon rip priority order

And let’s look at some options or combinations of options that anet can do to improve this skill including the above 2 requirements.

• improved boon rip priority order

• increased number of boons ripped

• make it steal the boon ripped

• make it currupt the boon removed (fear on stability rip….so many other possible use’s http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon )

• dynamic increased damage based on a factor such as number of boons on you or foe or both ect. (Tons of options to make this skill go from meh to WOW based on the situation.)
  (In my personal opinion the damage should increase by 10% per boon on the target. When fighting with gs we have a lot of trouble fighting tanky targets with tons of boons.
  Ele’s, guardians, thiefs with consume ecto, and specific boon bountiful builds on all of the other class’s comes to mind)
  Base damage with full zerker is like 500-1k. 1k-2k on crit. So I cant help but wonder what would happen if we got a 100%-150% damage ish increase resulting in something around 4k against a target with 10 or so boons. Would really change the feeling of weekness we have against those boon spammers.

And if my idea of corrupting the boon removed were to come through?
Watch as those that charge at us with stability run away in fear!!!!

Well you can be one of the few to say that, rest agree that mesmers do need more aoe along with rangers to be even more viable for zvz in wvw.

read my other post.
anyway the basic thing is this.
mesmer is perfectly fine in all other areas in the game. small group large group ect. however when it comes down to 20+ zerging cluster ****’s….well…..we are not able to dps because our damage comes from something that is instantly destroyed in that situation. while if zerging was fixed and more spread out. we would be fine.

Read your other post….why bother when wvw will always remain a zergfest. Which makes your notion for keeping the mesmer as a small scale combat class irrelevant.

I was considering starting a thread on this one myself. As someone relatively new to the mesmer profession, it’s nice to see I’m not the only one who thinks this skill needs some help.

My vote would be to keep the timing and such as is, but please, please make it do something that is useful in most situations. I feel like the boon removal is essentially useless. I can probably count on one hand the number of mobs it’s effective against (given, I do not do PvP, and it probably has advantages there).

I’d like to see the boon removal take away and shifted to a utility, then make Mind Stab do something useful like stun+interrupt. The cast time and various aspects of it, in my opinion, would make it a great interrupt skill.

Just make it a blast finisher and that would improve the ability out of sight.

selan.8354:

i think though the whole problem is, that most of those blobs are mainly cc oriented adn mes has no stability…and no the mantra is really not a good option.

Mantra of concentration on a mantra build: 3 stun breaks, 6 seconds total of stability, 600 extra toughness while channeling. @2700 aoe heal at the end of the channel, all in under 27 seconds. How is that not viable?

blast finisher that leaves behind a smoke field. this givers Mesmer both a blast finisher and a helpful field that would allow us some pretty cool combos.

Spurnshadow.3678:

selan.8354:

i think though the whole problem is, that most of those blobs are mainly cc oriented adn mes has no stability…and no the mantra is really not a good option.

Mantra of concentration on a mantra build: 3 stun breaks, 6 seconds total of stability, 600 extra toughness while channeling. @2700 aoe heal at the end of the channel, all in under 27 seconds. How is that not viable?

mantra is terrible in the middle of a zerg and a mantra build in wvw…in a zergplay?no no and no again this is terrible to use. u get perma interrupted and the channeling is an absolut pain. and also if u use mantras u wast all traits on those stupid mantras and then how u gonna deal dmg?hpw u gonna do anything with that in wvw?in a zerg not roaming not 1v1 im talking zerg! mantra of concentration is not good enough vs cc spamming zerg!

jarthur.3649:

blast finisher that leaves behind a smoke field. this givers Mesmer both a blast finisher and a helpful field that would allow us some pretty cool combos.

i like the idea of a blast finisher…but honestly blast finisher is not really a biiig change for mes in wvw for example. id rather have it an aoe or even better aoe interrupt

Imagine dropping a nullfield on a zerg and then blasting it yourself with gs#3 for an on-demand chaos armor for your allies… I’m all for it!

selan.8354:

jarthur.3649:

blast finisher that leaves behind a smoke field. this givers Mesmer both a blast finisher and a helpful field that would allow us some pretty cool combos.

i like the idea of a blast finisher…but honestly blast finisher is not really a biiig change for mes in wvw for example. id rather have it an aoe or even better aoe interrupt

Considering most Mesmers have 0 blast finishers unless they run torch it would be a big deal especially for WVW……

Mesmers already contribute to zergs hugely, even if it’s not through damage output. I don’t think I’ve ever run with a commander who doesn’t want a veil to disguise the route he is going to take, nor the boon strip on null field, nor the projectile reflection on feedback. Just because you can’t tag everything in sight doesn’t mean that mesmer is not a profession that is helpful to a zerg.

Neschast.7196:

Just because you can’t tag everything in sight doesn’t mean that mesmer is not a profession that is helpful to a zerg.

Useful and helpful != fun.

Well, guardians are tagmachines and yet they’re helpful in a zerg. Why can’t mesmer be both too?

Maybe this is a little crazy but I personally think it would be cool to change the auto attack animation to the FGS animation and make it an AOE splash.

Plus removing the damage scaling on distance to target would be nice for PVE dungeons when you have to stack (Which is about always).

The channeled AOE mind stab sounds great, as long as it’s worth the immobility while channeling it. Could keep the same animation now but add Chaos Storm effect aroud the tip of the sword that comes out of the ground.

I know these are far fetched hopes, maybe stupid, but I just wanted to throw something in. I’ve been playing Mesmer since release and would love to get some Mesmer attention that’s not nerfs.

I vote for nr 1..! I can’t press enough how much I want this change! That’s a change that would make a lot of difference.. I play mostly PvE, but to use Mind Stab atm, is like acting a target dummy/ waiting for attacks from all directions. Or move slightly and expect a unnecessary CD.. Otherwise I find it pretty good just the way it is. I’d rather have the movement fix ONLY instead of another bugged skill! BUT!!!

The blast finisher would suit the animation very well and for those who play WvW and dungeons frequently it would probably add some much needed support. But I wish to introduce another option that I find quite useful given my extensive use of GS in PvE:

Gain 10% of endurance for each target hit by the skill! (maximum 50%, but with the option to gain 15% per target if it only hits 1-2 targets..?) Brainstorming here yo..!

On top of the movement fix I might add, which in itself is an expected change imo..! The above option would sometimes provide an extra dodge (dmg mitigation + extra clone for shatter with DE) making GS a bit more viable in shatter builds, and not so kitten rigid when appropriatly using its phantasm for AoE.. In other words, often when engaging multiple targets! The endurance gain would be appropriate, since it furthers the defensive capabilites as well as the dmg aspect. (Build diversity anyone?)

Summary: Usable while on the move!! Remove 1 boon as is. Maximum of 5 targets within the current radius only!! 10% endurance gained for each target hit! (15% gained per target if only 1-2 targets)

Just a thought! Feel free to question my suggestion or improve on it..
Peace

selan.8354:

Spurnshadow.3678:

selan.8354:

i think though the whole problem is, that most of those blobs are mainly cc oriented adn mes has no stability…and no the mantra is really not a good option.

Mantra of concentration on a mantra build: 3 stun breaks, 6 seconds total of stability, 600 extra toughness while channeling. @2700 aoe heal at the end of the channel, all in under 27 seconds. How is that not viable?

mantra is terrible in the middle of a zerg and a mantra build in wvw…in a zergplay?no no and no again this is terrible to use. u get perma interrupted and the channeling is an absolut pain. and also if u use mantras u wast all traits on those stupid mantras and then how u gonna deal dmg?hpw u gonna do anything with that in wvw?in a zerg not roaming not 1v1 im talking zerg! mantra of concentration is not good enough vs cc spamming zerg!

Well, I run a mantra build in WvW. Works great. Aoe stun break, aoe stability, aoe healing, aoe cleansing, 12 personal cleanses, tough and hits like a truck. Sure, I probalbly don’t have as much sustained dps as a necro, but iZerker still tags a ton of people for usually kitten .5 K My auto attack consistanly hits well over 1K, knockdown, etc. Not even counting my sword/focus. You don’t sit there spamming mantras the whole time. If you are, then you are doing something wrong. Either you’re not on the commander, you don’t know how to position yourself, or your guilds group comp sucks.

Yeah, it’d be great if mind stab was a blast finisher.

Seeing as this thread has calmed down, dev’s, so what do you think / whats the plan.

I would just to add that a channeling skill can be stopped if you’re in trouble and can’t continue. An Ele that casts Meteor Shower is rooted for some secs, too (almost 4second to cast). If he stops the cast, Meteor Shower would be weaker, less meteors would hit the ground or targets.
Since GS is a ranged weapon, you are supposed to use Mind Stab when you are “safe” enough (like Eles would do with Meteor Shower). And of course, if you can’t complete Mind Stab cast, you can stop it, but you wouldn’t gain the last “damage bonus” I’d suggested.

IMHO the only “true” AoE Mesmers have is Staff #5 (good enough for a pure condi build and for a power/boonsharing, too). Feedback, as a glamour, have a counter-productive trait Dazzling Glamour (if feedback reflects damages, why it should proc blindness? XD); plus Nullfield is just boon-ripping/condi-cleaning. They should add confusion via Blinding Befuddlement trait, but c’mon, 4 sec of confusion and 3 sec of blindness for 4 trait points (plus confusion nerf in WvW).

So, since Mind Stab is already an AoE, let’s make it a little bit “bigger”: hit the ground (thus increase the radius) and you rip 1 boon per pulse + a little damage (or medium damage if we want to add some randomness on where swords appear). Then, if you can fully cast, it causes the bigger damage bonus, otherwise it doesn’t.
I don’t see anything wrong, it wouldn’t work that much differently from what it does now.

Any ETA on this rework?

Karl McLain.5604:

Hey all!
As an update, we’ve had some meetings and this did come up as one of the skills we’d like to test changes with. To start, we’re looking at the overall radius and damage output. We did discuss some of the other ‘crazy’ stuff (that involves functionality change), but for now we’re going to test it out with some number changes and see how it feels. This probably won’t be in for quite some time, but I just wanted to update the thread and let you know that we didn’t forget.
Also, thanks for the civil conversation and feedback!
Cheers,
-Karl

Thanks for the attention Karl.

Could the team also consider on how to make this skill a bit more interesting in PvE? The radius change, by itself, should be enough to make it more reliable in PvP, where the boon stripping is already very useful, but in general PvE, it probably will need an additional effect/ conditional damage buff similar to Mind Spike (sword AA #3).

Also, it would be really cool if you could find some time to communicate and discuss skills for the other professions too.

Karl McLain.5604:

Hey all!
As an update, we’ve had some meetings and this did come up as one of the skills we’d like to test changes with. To start, we’re looking at the overall radius and damage output. We did discuss some of the other ‘crazy’ stuff (that involves functionality change), but for now we’re going to test it out with some number changes and see how it feels. This probably won’t be in for quite some time, but I just wanted to update the thread and let you know that we didn’t forget.
Also, thanks for the civil conversation and feedback!
Cheers,
-Karl

Hi there, would you mind giving us a list of the skills you guys are looking at, so we can perhaps contribute a bit to the discussion?

Karl McLain.5604:

Hey all!
As an update, we’ve had some meetings and this did come up as one of the skills we’d like to test changes with. To start, we’re looking at the overall radius and damage output. We did discuss some of the other ‘crazy’ stuff (that involves functionality change), but for now we’re going to test it out with some number changes and see how it feels. This probably won’t be in for quite some time, but I just wanted to update the thread and let you know that we didn’t forget.
Also, thanks for the civil conversation and feedback!
Cheers,
-Karl

Any chance the team is going to look at Blurred Frenzy? Guess discussion took it to an uncivilized discussion, but fair points were made.

Thread can be found here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Blurred-Frenzy-3

In short: Blurred frenzy got nerfed too hard and blows itself up with retaliation. It’s a mix of dealing low damage, dealing too frequent damage (as in 8 times is too much), the frequency of the attack doesn’t match with it’s animation and the retaliation affected by the frequency of the attacks. ( As in 8×3 retal damage hurts a lot )

One of the things I miss was that the old Mind Stab was a low cool down, high damage skill. Without the hay-maker damage it used to have the greatsword lacks damage over all, since the bulk of its power is now in bouncing Mirror Blades and its phantasm.

I never use mind stab in wvw. Almost forgot it was a skill. Stopping to use it is detrimental, so I’d love to see some way to use it on the move. This would mean changing the animation to perhaps stabbing the sky? The sword comes up from the ground, so that would possible make sense.

Another possibility I was thinking is make the skill a little like meteor storm. Large AoE circle with 4-5 mind stab blades coming out of the ground, but only happen once. Not a damage over time thing. One large AoE with 4 or 5 blades coming out of the ground to hit whoever it hits. Like meteor, there’s no guarantee that it would hit anyone, but it also has a possibility of hitting a lot of people. You’d barely need to change the skill for that, I would think. For this functionality, I think I would even use it if it required me to be stationary. It gives the mesmer some random, yet low cooldown aoe to tag people and the potential to remove boons from a whole group, or hit no people whatsoever. The animation could even stay the same, just make the effect more than one blade.

well all good with mindstab fix and all, but honestly mindstab is the least of my problems on my mes which i have given up. we got no aoe, most of our skills have been either nerfed to the ground or are bugged and there is a lot of traits and skills that i think barely anyone uses. all we are is a weaker version of a thief with less survivability, less dmg, a tonof bugs and useless pets. we are light armor with no aoe, so yes mindstab needs aoe and other stuff too, cant be that the mesmer stays thi useless in wvw without anything we can contribute at all apart from veil and stupid portal and tw. thats not fun and will never be.
so yes how about bugfixes and lots of rework so this light armor class can actually be a light armor class again.
mes is way overnerfed there was no shaving like u did with warrior, it s just massive nerfs!

Chaos Archangel.5071:

My vote goes for number 4 “Make this a channeled skill that pulses AOE damage and boon removal while you hold the sword in the ground.”

This would be extremely interesting and give Mesmer some much needed AoE damage in a way that can be used creatively rather than “spam skill & forget”.

Yep. I’m behind this too. It would really round out the GS as a strong ranged weapon. I feel like it’d be similar to engineer rifle, in that you’re constantly bouncing in and out of long & mid range to optimize the skills. Super long range autoattack, midrange Mirror Blade, any/long range Mind Stab, any range iZerker, midrange Wave.

Karl McLain.5604:

Hey all!
As an update, we’ve had some meetings and this did come up as one of the skills we’d like to test changes with. To start, we’re looking at the overall radius and damage output. We did discuss some of the other ‘crazy’ stuff (that involves functionality change), but for now we’re going to test it out with some number changes and see how it feels. This probably won’t be in for quite some time, but I just wanted to update the thread and let you know that we didn’t forget.
Also, thanks for the civil conversation and feedback!
Cheers,
-Karl

Thanks for the update. Hopefully you will come up with a damage value / radius which encourages us using it over AA or GS#2 . The ‘quite some time’ part is sad, though.

i read alot of this tread. my thoughts are the following

make the aoe of it little bigger. effect 3-5 people removed one boon and add knockdown or stun to the area, dont increase the damage so remove boon from 3-5 and stun 3-5 be a nice add

That is quite interesting. A daze or a stun would be really nice and would go with the name of the skill as well..

It would also be a hit in the face of Chaos Storm.

maybe make it have the sword push up and inclose you in a crystal aka type of stun or snare

Broadening the area a bit would do a lot to help mesmers “tag” in big fights and support zergs with boon stripping beyond just Null Field and some haphazard shatters.

I’d suggest increasing the radius and applying applying like a .25 second daze to up to 5 targets and ripping a boon, with increased damage on interrupt. Balance the damage/recharge/cast time/mobility as needed. Animation could be a giant rotating whisperblade hovering for a moment above the target area, like comet, to telegraph the skill and also give the GS some of the SFX love it needs. Maybe make it cause a light field for condi removal possibilities and increased viability in pvp.

MesmeForever.3612:

I’d suggest increasing the radius and applying applying like a .25 second daze to up to 5 targets and ripping a boon, with increased damage on interrupt. Balance the damage/recharge/cast time/mobility as needed. Animation could be a giant rotating whisperblade hovering for a moment above the target area, like comet, to telegraph the skill and also give the GS some of the SFX love it needs. Maybe make it cause a light field for condi removal possibilities and increased viability in pvp.

i would love the 0.25 s daze, and it would be more fitting for blast finisher, and i wouldnt love it forthe cast time to be changed

I’ll agree that Mind Stab is underwhelming. I like the ideas of bigger radius, blast finisher, even the channel aoe damage would be a nice addition.

However, I’ll agree with others, Mesmer has many many bigger problems than just Mind Stab that I would rather see fixed:

-All our teleports that aren’t 100% effective.
-Scepter being underwhelming.
-Glamor/Confusion being rendered inert.

Greatsword is already a popular weapon for Mesmer. Yes, Mind Stab could use help, but why not make other weapons more appealing?

MesmeForever.3612:

I’d suggest increasing the radius and applying applying like a .25 second daze to up to 5 targets and ripping a boon, with increased damage on interrupt. Balance the damage/recharge/cast time/mobility as needed.

I’d much, much rather have Mind Stab be a more useful boon ripper with its current casting time than yet another area interrupt with a higher cooldown.