Guild Wars 2

The value of Chaotic Interruption (CI) was questioned in another thread by StickerHappy. He brought up some great points about how the three randomly applied conditions (Cripple, Chill, or Blind) lose some of their value due to the always applied Immobilize. Cripple, for example, is basically totally useless when stacked on top of Immobilize.

So, this had me thinking about switching my standard 4/4/6 lockdown spread to 6/4/4 and taking either Power Block or Confounding Suggestions. Power Block would seem to offer almost a guaranteed win if used on a heal against a profession that doesn’t have another healing or invulnerability (here’s looking at you, hambows) skill. Multiple interrupts back-to-back could also really shut someone down, putting several of their skills on long cooldowns.

Confounding Suggestions is nice as it doesn’t work off of interrupts and offers a chance at immobilize (via Stun) that you lose by ditching CI. CS seems to be really good for a daze-spam build using something like pistol or sword offhand with Mantra of Distraction.

Wastrel’s Punishment also seems to fit a Power based lockdown build more than the Chaos line equivalent, which offers a useless bonus condition damage based on toughness.

I would love to hear opinions from anyone who has used these GM traits for a while. The more I really watch fights I am in the more I realize that CI really doesn’t offer me that much.

In the past there has been (and probably still is) much experimentation between 6 in domination with confounding suggestions versus 6 in chaos for chaotic interruption. Much of that is contained in the lockdown thread and CI thread (first link):

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-Lockdown-Mesmer-Thread/first

The general consensus is usually that CI is better and the reason is the immobilize. The other cover conditions are icing, especially the chill, but that’s not the reason to take it.

I was gonna be lazy and copy some of my year-old write-ups on the subject but my opinion has changed a bit since then.

Confounding Suggestions can be really strong when done well. To this day I still run a 6/6/0/0/2/0 lockdown-heavy glass build in tournaments when I’m not running a CI build. CS can be a really strong trait when you have the right tools and the chain-dazing ability can be a nightmare for certain classes (necros, eles, rangers, mesmer, and guardian especially). CS requires less skill/luck than CI since you don’t have to rely on interrupts to be effective, and synergizes awesomely with Runes of the Mesmer to make all your dazes last atleast 2s. Some nice chain-daze combos include:

(CI)
Mantra Daze > iLeap > Swap+BlurredFrenzy+MindWrack > Dodge + Daze Shatter > Summon Phant > Mantra Daze

(CS)
Summon Phant > WeaponDaze > Mantra Daze > (Swap/Dodge) > Daze Shatter > Summon Phant + Mantra Daze > Mind Wrack after lulz

In the rotations I mentioned above, the CI chain starts from an interrupt and leaves the opponent immobilized throughout the chain, but requires better timing. This chain works well with teamfights since most of the time you’ll be doing that combo on a marked target, keeping them from escaping the rest of your group. CI synergizes well with soft other soft CC abilities like Temporal Curtain, iLeap, Runes of Grenth/Sigils of Hydromancy, and offers more potential AoE control with skills like Temporal Curtain’s pull. I personally think CI to be more profittable for people who have better ability to predict/time interrupts, giving substantial rewards for being able to interrupt atleast once every ten seconds or so.

Also.. CI works really well with Phantasm builds because of it’s ability to immobilize. Stickerhappy’s Phantasmic Interruptions makes really good use of this concept. Staff and Focus phantasms, being so painfully inaccurate, are prime examples of this: A well-timed focus pull into Phantasmal Warden + iLeap/Blurred Frenzy can land almost all 12 of the Warden’s. CI adds atleast 2 conditions onto the opponent per interrupt, boosting iWarlock’s damage by 20% everytime it strikes an interrupted opponent. (Daze Mantra recommended)

Most Lockdown builds that go into CI builds have superior defense, but CS lockdown have better damage and somewhat more reliable control. The CS chain displayed will likely kill or put near death almost any opponent that isn’t a bunker when executed properly. Confounding Suggestions kind of trips over itself by turning stuns into dazes, but a 2s daze in my opinion isn’t as strong as a 1s stun so both effects are welcome. Confounding is considerably more forgiving than Chaotic since it doesn’t rely on interrupts but an opponent can still kite you if they’re lucky. What I like about confounding is how well it synergizes with weapons like Offhand Sword and Pistol. Too many times have I been able to iLeap(2s Immob) >Pistol Phant > MantraDaze(Stun) > Pistol 3s Stun > Sigil of Dom 5s Stun to keep someone locked down for 11 freakin seconds!

So you know, of course.. once in a while I’ll Moa Morph that same person afterwards.

—-

TL;DR While CI gives a more substantial lockdown reward and survivability per interrupt, CS offers more damage and more reliable interrupt. CI works better in AoE situations, CS dominates single targets… Of course you could try to be a total and complete gangsta and take both!

@Veruah

To answer your question, Both CI and CS has their pros as Chaos mentioned but the only downside from CS i have is the trait somewhat contradicts itself.

First, it boosts daze duration but the main use of this trait are the stuns. But when you look at it, Daze Duration does not equal stun duration. Although rune of the mesmer affects the stun duration, the trait does not benefit the stun duration.

In short, (Just an example) You could boost your daze to 5 secs, but when you convert it to a stun it will always be 1 sec.

I talked about this before, it does give you 50/50 chance to convert a daze to a stun , so if you REALLY REALLY get lucky and convert the daze into a stun like let’s say 3 times in a row, where does the daze duration come into play then? especially when you also have Rune of the Mesmer equipped.

I am not saying its a bad trait but IF it was “Convert the duration of your dazes to a stun with the same duration” then it would be an OK for my use. Again, this is only me, chaos’ inputs are a lot more credible since he used this trait more than me.

In the terms of CI I can give you a decent input. CI is really good although a few a points i mentioned on one thread seems otherwise. Just with the Immobilize it self, the trait is a winner. As chaos said, Me and Skcamow’s Phantasmic Interruptions build make CI shine for with 100% condition duration you have 4 sec immo from CI + 4 Sec immo from leap, plus the Stuns (either pistol 5 or SoD), CI is also good with AoE interrupts for you can be rooting everyone you interrupt.

The Immo from CI is 2 sec base Versus 1 sec stun from CS. So being rooted means your phantasms will surely hit that person (unless with blocks or invuln).

That’s my take on it.

I wish other lockdown mesmers share their response and analysis. ( I am looking at you Skcamow! haha. )

Honestly I use both CS or CI depending on what I am fighting/what comp im fighting. If there are a lot of difficult things to interrupt I go CS and if things are simple to interrupt I go CI. However, I do use CI most of the time personally since it is better if you know to interrupt consistently, but sometimes some specs are so hard to interrupt x. x (note: hard to interrupt equals anything 1/4 cast time and some 1/2 casts).

Also, @ Chaos, I can vouch for his build he uses in tpvp. I still think gs is an alternative to staff since sign of dom into gs burst is a free kill basically to any non bunker (having played it myself hehe)

Thanks for all the responses guys!

@Chaos: I really like that 6/4/2/0/2/0 build you posted. I think I may try that trait spread but maybe swap out Sw/P for Staff. The on-demand stun/daze on multiple targets has won me over recently compared to playing the RNG slot machine with Chaos Storm.

I always prefer CI over CS because of the longer lasting immobilize compared to the relativly short stun/daze.
And I also love the way all those traits in Chaos work together: CI for control, BI for might stacks, which will interact with condition damage from Chaotic Transference. Debilitating Dissipation (and Sharper Images) will profit to give some nice hybrid damage even in full power builds. CI works with every weapon as well, CS on the other hand would be useless for my greatsword.
Most of my builds were mantra-heavy lockdown builds lately (x-6-x-2-x), and 6 points in Chaos just feel more powerful. I can be a tank and still eat squishy targets with close to 3k power, thanks to might, guard and bloodlust stacks. A CS build could maybe deal the same damage due to vulnerability, but it wouldn´t be even close in terms of defense.
Sure, this is personal preference, and Chaos made some good points about CS´ advantages, but for me CI is the way to go.

Er.. I actually posted a 6/6/0/2/0 when I entered in 6/4/2/2/0.

A 6/4/2/2/0 (added Sword/Sword – Scepter/Pistol as you mentioned earlier. Greatsword works wonderfully aswell.. as Warlord of Chaos has painfully demonstrated to me before x.x) variant of the build would look/play sliightly different, and I dunno if Mender’s would be enough condi removal so you may wanna play around with some sigils, maybe Generosity.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Er.. I actually posted a 6/6/0/2/0 when I entered in 6/4/2/2/0.

A 6/4/2/2/0 (added Sword/Sword – Scepter/Pistol as you mentioned earlier. Greatsword works wonderfully aswell.. as Warlord of Chaos has painfully demonstrated to me before x.x) variant of the build would look/play sliightly different, and I dunno if Mender’s would be enough condi removal so you may wanna play around with some sigils, maybe Generosity.

That’s an interesting trait setup but I think I am totally missing the reasoning behind Scepter. This is a Power based lockdown build at it’s core and Scepter is pretty terrible at Power damage and doesn’t have a daze skill to proc CS.

Actually, Scepter is pretty underrated for power builds.

The scepter auto-attack actually does more power damage than Greatsword at closer ranges ( >600 if I’m not mistaken) and the torment-applying counter does somewhat decent power damage. It used to do as much damage as the iSwordsman (and iRiposte) but it was cut by 50%, which is still somewhat respectable.

Combine that with the fact that Confuse Ray does a bit more damage than Blurred Frenzy, and the scepter is only a bit less potent than mainhand sword with the benefit of being entirely ranged and allowing for another offhand.

My more elaborate take on this -

CI is better than CS for the following reasons:

The proc method – CS requires a daze to proc. CI requires an interrupt to proc. Thus there are more overall ways to proc CI than CS due to dazes + pushes/pulls:

• Daze: Can proc CI and CS.
• Push: Can proc CI. Cannot proc CS.
• Pull: Can proc CI. Cannot proc CS.
• Stun: Can proc CI. Cannot proc CS. (Granted the CI proc on stun is in large part useless).

Build diversity – It’s more expansive with CI due to the numerous methods to proc the trait. With CS you are locked into weapon sets that inflict daze.

Duration of effects -There is a large contrast between the two traits. With CS, you have a short daze followed by a short RnG stun. With CI based on conditions, you can extend these much longer and potentially have a greater effect.

Expounding on CS – you have to consider what you’re trying to accomplish by taking it. Do you want the interrupt? The extra daze duration? No, what you want is the stun. That’s the power in the trait above all else. The stun shuts them down completely (CS) versus rooting them (CI). Great, but how do you get the stun? You have to daze and then have a 50% chance to proc the stun. What if you don’t get the stun? Your opponent can’t use skills yes, but they can still move and most importantly, dodge. So that’s quite a bit of effort to try and get a stun to get the most out of the trait. However, IF you proc the stuns, the results can be devastating.

Expounding on CI – again an interrupt is all that’s needed. Just your skilled (or lucky) interrupt and all the beauty of the trait shines in front of you. No fluff, but some RnG in the occasional lucky interrupt. If you get the interrupt, the resulting immobilize still allows them to use skills, but they can’t move and can’t dodge. That in and of itself is enough to land your burst. The three additional soft cc’s are just icing at that point.

My conclusion is that if you can get the stun procs from CS, it’s at least as good as CI or better. But the RnG nature of CS, less triggers we have to proc it and the shorter duration of its effects as compared to CI make it inferior.

Objection! /debate

While you’re right on most points, one thing really sticks out to me.

skcamow.3527:

Expounding on CS – you have to consider what you’re trying to accomplish by taking it. Do you want the interrupt? The extra daze duration? No, what you want is the stun. That’s the power in the trait above all else. The stun shuts them down completely (CS) versus rooting them (CI). Great, but how do you get the stun? You have to daze and then have a 50% chance to proc the stun. What if you don’t get the stun? Your opponent can’t use skills yes, but they can still move and most importantly, dodge. So that’s quite a bit of effort to try and get a stun to get the most out of the trait. However, IF you proc the stuns, the results can be devastating.

…

My conclusion is that if you can get the stun procs from CS, it’s at least as good as CI or better. But the RnG nature of CS, less triggers we have to proc it and the shorter duration of its effects as compared to CI make it inferior.

(Mind you this is from a perspective using a build with 3 Daze Mantra charges and traited Sword) The daze duration increase is actually pretty meaningful, even without the stun. While the stun is preferable, consider that CS’s increased dazes makes for a pretty strong stunlock.

Combined with Mesmer Runes, each 1s daze essentially becomes 2s, and thus chaining skills together (IE: Sword4 Daze + MantraDaze) makes for a pretty significant lockdown, even if the enemy can move. With such a chain now you have the potential for a 4s daze versus a 2s stun, or a 2s daze followed by a 1s stun. This is guaranteed no matter what the enemy is doing, versus CI where you have to interrupt in order to achieve any sort of effect.

The other thing to consider is WvW, specifically food buffs. Last time I ran CI in WvW, a lot of the enemies I ran into were running the -40% condition duration food, which butchered my immob because I wasn’t running the counter to it. This means you’ll often be shoehorned into your food choice in order to support your build, which isn’t too bad but hampers diversity potential.

@Chaos

What was your experience running lockdown without DE and Sharper Images? I am just curious, I want to try CI+Power Block.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

-snip-

Embrace debate!

On daze duration – as I originally reported in a thread and frifox further validated, currently the daze duration extension by CS is bugged in a few skills:

• Does not increase duration of Mantra of Distraction, Diversion, and Chaos Storm dazes yet does increase daze duration of Counter Blade, which has same base duration as the other 3.
• Increases daze duration of both Magic Bullet and Counter Blade by 58%, not 25% as tooltip suggests.

The counter blade daze would certainly contribute to what you’re experiencing in a bugged daze extension. I suppose though that if Anet fixes these bugs, it would closely even out. So you’re looking at a maximum of 1.5 seconds dazes from counter blade and MoD. So with that chain you’ll be looking at a potential chain lockdown of 6 seconds (spread out a bit due to MoD cooldown).

Now with CI, if you take traveler’s runes with 30% condition duration, only one of those interrupts nets a 2.5 second immobilize. You can chain that same exact scenario for a potential 10 seconds with less adverse affect from MoD’s internal cooldown. When you add the potential blinds/chills, they’re wrecked.

Keep in mind you’re blowing all your lockdown cooldowns as well with this rotation which is generally OK for 1v1, but something to consider. The point there is that you can inflict similar havoc with almost half as much skill expenditure using CI. And this is only in PvP.

In WvW, CI wins with no contest due to the ability to extend condition duration. With CS, you can’t extend daze duration anymore than you can in PvP. Getting 100% condition duration is not difficult (see stickerhappy’s thread), so even if someone is running lemongrass poulty food, you’ve still got 60% condition duration, doubling what you have in PvP, worst case.

A final note, taking racial skills out of consideration – with CS you have a maximum of three lockdown sources across most weapon sets except a couple that have to involve staff and sword or pistol OH. With CI you can have up to four across all weapon sets, and if you for some reason took nightmare runes or mirror of anguish, you could potentially have six.

is powerblock garbage? i played with it for a little while but its hard for me to see how it is working on the enemy. i dont know if it can do anything to thieves.. and ele/engi have so many skills blocking one or 2 wont change much. anyone have any testing with it.

zaxon.6819:

is powerblock garbage? i played with it for a little while but its hard for me to see how it is working on the enemy. i dont know if it can do anything to thieves.. and ele/engi have so many skills blocking one or 2 wont change much. anyone have any testing with it.

It is near impossible to tell the effect of it if your the one using it, but the general consensus from people I was dueling was that it just wasn’t as good as CS.

As for the OP, CI is one of my fav traits. But running 6 in dom instead opens up a few options as it means you don’t have to put any trait points into chaos, meaning you have 4 free trait points too spend where you wish. (presuming you will be taking 4 in dueling already for DE

skcamow.3527:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

-snip-

Embrace debate!

On daze duration – as I originally reported in a thread and frifox further validated, currently the daze duration extension by CS is bugged in a few skills:

• Does not increase duration of Mantra of Distraction, Diversion, and Chaos Storm dazes yet does increase daze duration of Counter Blade, which has same base duration as the other 3.
• Increases daze duration of both Magic Bullet and Counter Blade by 58%, not 25% as tooltip suggests.

Wow, really? I had no idea the trait was bugged so badly. I did feel that my 3 illusion Diversion shatters felt a little weak sometimes, but I just figured the opponents had condition duration decreasing runes/traits on them or something.

Well, hell.. I did not know that.

Alright, I concede. Skcamow just totally snatched my weave. I can’t even think of a rebuke. o_O

Gurl, protect yo weave!

I guess in the grand scheme we are still talking in quarters of a second here, so the actual gameplay impact (other than on Diversion, IMO) isn’t earth shattering.

Still, can we get any more bugs at this point? I don’t think there are really any Torch bugs (excluding the iMage blows – but that isn’t a bug). Let’s think up some Prestige bugs, guize.

skcamow.3527:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

-snip-

Embrace debate!

On daze duration – as I originally reported in a thread and frifox further validated, currently the daze duration extension by CS is bugged in a few skills:

• Does not increase duration of Mantra of Distraction, Diversion, and Chaos Storm dazes yet does increase daze duration of Counter Blade, which has same base duration as the other 3.
• Increases daze duration of both Magic Bullet and Counter Blade by 58%, not 25% as tooltip suggests.

The counter blade daze would certainly contribute to what you’re experiencing in a bugged daze extension. I suppose though that if Anet fixes these bugs, it would closely even out. So you’re looking at a maximum of 1.5 seconds dazes from counter blade and MoD. So with that chain you’ll be looking at a potential chain lockdown of 6 seconds (spread out a bit due to MoD cooldown).

Now with CI, if you take traveler’s runes with 30% condition duration, only one of those interrupts nets a 2.5 second immobilize. You can chain that same exact scenario for a potential 10 seconds with less adverse affect from MoD’s internal cooldown. When you add the potential blinds/chills, they’re wrecked.

Keep in mind you’re blowing all your lockdown cooldowns as well with this rotation which is generally OK for 1v1, but something to consider. The point there is that you can inflict similar havoc with almost half as much skill expenditure using CI. And this is only in PvP.

In WvW, CI wins with no contest due to the ability to extend condition duration. With CS, you can’t extend daze duration anymore than you can in PvP. Getting 100% condition duration is not difficult (see stickerhappy’s thread), so even if someone is running lemongrass poulty food, you’ve still got 60% condition duration, doubling what you have in PvP, worst case.

A final note, taking racial skills out of consideration – with CS you have a maximum of three lockdown sources across most weapon sets except a couple that have to involve staff and sword or pistol OH. With CI you can have up to four across all weapon sets, and if you for some reason took nightmare runes or mirror of anguish, you could potentially have six.

Uhmm skcamow, do you think that CI in its current state, I mean you can only get the most out of it in WvW because of the condi-duration food? And have you tried perplexity with it?

Veruah.5302:

skcamow.3527:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

-snip-

Embrace debate!

On daze duration – as I originally reported in a thread and frifox further validated, currently the daze duration extension by CS is bugged in a few skills:

• Does not increase duration of Mantra of Distraction, Diversion, and Chaos Storm dazes yet does increase daze duration of Counter Blade, which has same base duration as the other 3.
• Increases daze duration of both Magic Bullet and Counter Blade by 58%, not 25% as tooltip suggests.

Wow, really? I had no idea the trait was bugged so badly. I did feel that my 3 illusion Diversion shatters felt a little weak sometimes, but I just figured the opponents had condition duration decreasing runes/traits on them or something.

But diversion’s strength does not lie in the daze duration, it lies on clone positioning.

My 2 cents on this:

CI is an interrupt trait. CS is a lockdown trait. Interrupt is about, well, interrupting enemy actions, where lockdown is grabbing them and preventing those actions from occurring in the first place, with a sprinkle of interrupts on top. CS really facilitates lockdown by lengthening dazes and stacking a lot of stuns if you do it right, while CI simply boosts the effectiveness of your interrupts. They’re different traits for different purposes.

And then there’s power block, which is an interrupt trait designed to create a lockdown, but I’m only mentioning this just for completeness.

Fay.2357:

CS really facilitates lockdown by lengthening dazes and stacking a lot of stuns if you do it right

Too bad only 1/4 of the time, eh?

Fay.2357:

My 2 cents on this:

CI is an interrupt trait. CS is a lockdown trait. Interrupt is about, well, interrupting enemy actions, where lockdown is grabbing them and preventing those actions from occurring in the first place, with a sprinkle of interrupts on top. CS really facilitates lockdown by lengthening dazes and stacking a lot of stuns if you do it right, while CI simply boosts the effectiveness of your interrupts. They’re different traits for different purposes.

And then there’s power block, which is an interrupt trait designed to create a lockdown, but I’m only mentioning this just for completeness.

I think that’s a really useful way of looking at this. The mesmer community here has latched onto the term “lockdown,” but in reality maybe there is “lockdown” and “interrupt” builds, which, while serving a similar purpose, aren’t necessarily the same playstyle. Lockdown may be seen as more proactive whereas interrupt is more reactive (with maybe greater rewards).

Now the question is, if one wanted to embrace this proactive lockdown (read: dazelock) style, is it worth it to go 6/6/4 for Harmonious Mantras while losing out on the Might/boon generation of Bountiful Interruption?

So many decisions.

Veruah.5302:

Fay.2357:

My 2 cents on this:

CI is an interrupt trait. CS is a lockdown trait. Interrupt is about, well, interrupting enemy actions, where lockdown is grabbing them and preventing those actions from occurring in the first place, with a sprinkle of interrupts on top. CS really facilitates lockdown by lengthening dazes and stacking a lot of stuns if you do it right, while CI simply boosts the effectiveness of your interrupts. They’re different traits for different purposes.

And then there’s power block, which is an interrupt trait designed to create a lockdown, but I’m only mentioning this just for completeness.

I think that’s a really useful way of looking at this. The mesmer community here has latched onto the term “lockdown,” but in reality maybe there is “lockdown” and “interrupt” builds, which, while serving a similar purpose, aren’t necessarily the same playstyle. Lockdown may be seen as more proactive whereas interrupt is more reactive (with maybe greater rewards).

Now the question is, if one wanted to embrace this proactive lockdown (read: dazelock) style, is it worth it to go 6/6/4 for Harmonious Mantras while losing out on the Might/boon generation of Bountiful Interruption?

So many decisions.

Can I have your 6/6/4 build please? I would love to have 14 trait points <3.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Veruah.5302:

Fay.2357:

My 2 cents on this:

CI is an interrupt trait. CS is a lockdown trait. Interrupt is about, well, interrupting enemy actions, where lockdown is grabbing them and preventing those actions from occurring in the first place, with a sprinkle of interrupts on top. CS really facilitates lockdown by lengthening dazes and stacking a lot of stuns if you do it right, while CI simply boosts the effectiveness of your interrupts. They’re different traits for different purposes.

And then there’s power block, which is an interrupt trait designed to create a lockdown, but I’m only mentioning this just for completeness.

I think that’s a really useful way of looking at this. The mesmer community here has latched onto the term “lockdown,” but in reality maybe there is “lockdown” and “interrupt” builds, which, while serving a similar purpose, aren’t necessarily the same playstyle. Lockdown may be seen as more proactive whereas interrupt is more reactive (with maybe greater rewards).

Now the question is, if one wanted to embrace this proactive lockdown (read: dazelock) style, is it worth it to go 6/6/4 for Harmonious Mantras while losing out on the Might/boon generation of Bountiful Interruption?

So many decisions.

Can I have your 6/6/4 build please? I would love to have 14 trait points <3.

Lol. Definitely meant 6/6/2. kitten .

Edit: Wow. The internet slang term that begins with a D and ends similarly to perp is censored? Weird.

I’ve been YOLO’ing all day in PvP running 6/2/6 taking both CS and CI with some pretty hilarious results.