Guild Wars 2

baylock.1703:

RiP inspiration no reason to go there eny way quess il play dom/illusion/cronomancer or dom/duel/cronomancer from now on

But probably il get on bandwagon enyway and play burn dragonhunter this season it will be crasy OP with new amulet and runes

Burn guard is currently suffering critical bug that caused F1 duration to drop back to original 2s duration whenever you trait for permeating wrath (3hit instead of kittens). This is like radiant retaliation again. Great concept, but bug cause it to remain like original.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

skcamow.3527:

I will also say that, while everyone can play what they want, the most optimal build is with inspiration. The higher the tier of play, this becomes much more magnified regardless of how well one can kite/avoid damage.

Just my 2 cents as usual …

As someone that also plays DD build that brings PI on interrupt instead of condi clear on evade and Bound instead of the unhindered dodge, I can’t inherently agree to the idea that inspiration is required at the highest tier. I"m not saying I played it at the highest tier but I found it much better than the DD that played it safe because the damage was enough to win fights fast. Condi clear was from runes, a sigil and utilities. Inspiration was optimal for a bunker meta. If this new meta is glassier in general, preventing damage and doing more damage is going to be better than repairing the damage.

Although your example is an apples to oranges comparison to mesmer, certainly it could go this way as the meta is still forming, or shall we say, adjusting to the recent changes. I’d give it a low chance of that happening though given the potential condition threats out there.

Also inspiration isn’t all about RI in PvP, though obviously a huge part.

Mental Defense is a good source of damage mitigation and more importantly, illusion generation which ties directly into damage.The utility is also extremely important as well with AoE cleanse and especially shared distortion.

The utility aspects don’t shine as much in uncoordinated soloq, but in cooperative settings that’s part of what has made inspiration meta and what I believe will continue to.

Bah I’m going to have to correct myself. I am not enjoying my Mesmer much ATM. Not sure if it’s the matchmaking once again, probably is to some degree, but I’m seeing a huge influx of FoTM classes that are making life as a Mesmer very hard IMO.

Even with Insp the Condie cleanse just never seems enough with the plethora of high Burn stacks applied continuously, this is from both Burn Guards and Warriors…lolz if you’re facing both.

Seems like 75% of the classes played are Guardians (the most by far), Ele, Warrior, and Rangers.

DH especially are playing in a league of their own ATM with at least 2 strong builds.

Meta Condie Shatter is still OK overall, but you have to work twice as hard for half the result.

I’m not enjoying Mesmer in this season so far.

Yea DHs everywhere are making mesmer a lot less fun than it used to be for me. I originally tried dropping inpiration line, taking TP and phantasmal disenchanter and WoE and it still wasn’t enough condi cleanse for a few fights.

I also hate that kittenend resistance boon and any invuln skills right now. Its extremely annoying to see 6-8 condis on an enemy and them take no damage from it while they can still hit me like a truck.

And sadly I can’t play Viper together with RI anymore in pvp because the heal amount sucks.

It kind of relied on the sustained healing from RI to make up for the extreme glassiness. Now it is just pure glass with too slow damage and no sustain – it’s better to play zerker.

At least it’s still ok in wvw for now…

In pvp I haven’t quite found a decent build that I enjoy yet. Probably going to go back to Demolisher and power.

As annoying a power or burn DH is, they’re still not bad to kill. I’m sure it’s the quality of players I’m going up against but they can’t handle the pressure.

I’m not sure Mesmers are in an entirely good spot right now.

thet didnt changed much to burning vanilla build beside the f1 duration.
they just push more ppl to play it so you see more of them

i play it long time ago and here and there and its fun . the main issue is the symbol added to sword and scepter ppl forget to back off from it. and also its more 1v1 build

but regarding mesmer they are as anet state in more delicate state and not good one atm beside portal. so we still gonna see them in esl team but less in other aspects of the game.

they push mesmer to be useful more in the hand of the great players and guard to be much easy learning curve easy going build.

^ Well said. I agree 100%.

This must be some kinda joke thread because chronomancers are beyond fine in spvp condi or power if ppl really still believe silly stuff like Mesmers/Chronomancers are only taken because of portal/moa they should prob actually try playing one in spvp instead of using a really worn out theme. As for the “nerf” it hardly hurt the main focus was for the condi cleanse the healing was just icing on top.

Lalainnia.3598:

This must be some kinda joke thread because chronomancers are beyond fine in spvp condi or power if ppl really still believe silly stuff like Mesmers/Chronomancers are only taken because of portal/moa they should prob actually try playing one in spvp instead of using a really worn out theme. As for the “nerf” it hardly hurt the main focus was for the condi cleanse the healing was just icing on top.

The reason that nerfing the healing is such a big deal is because we have other sources of condi cleanse than just the inspiration traitline. Using the other sources instead of inspirations means we can take another damage oriented traitline and try a different approach of killing enemies before they kill us. The healing nerf was enough to justify dropping the inspiration traitline for a few builds, which is changing how a few people play mesmer in PvP.

Now that RI scales with healing power, has anyone tried using Chaos with Master of Manipulation and Bountiful Disillusionment for a support build? Swap Moa out for Mass Invisibility and run magi amulet and a healing rune? I’m just curious…

Lalainnia, I fixed a few things for ya! toodles!

This must be some kind of joke reply because chronomancers are totally not fine in spvp, condie or power. If people really still believe silly stuff like Mesmers/Chronos are taken for anything else besides portal/moa they should probably actually try playing one in spvp instead of using a really worn out theme. (Or suggesting they are fine after a series of crippling nerfs to every single build that was viable in the past year.)

As for the nerf, it further hurt —quite badly-- the already completely non-existent power builds, and did nothing but appease the whiners (cough cough) about the only semi-potent build this class has left. Nevermind that Mesmers are not stackable, don’t have nearly the sustain and DPS output of various other professions, and also don’t have the spike damage (and sustain) of many other professions. Lastly even the meta condie shatter build that bads like to cry about once in awhile (FAR FAR less than they do about DH, Warrior, pre-nerf Rev, or Ele I might add!), isn’t even anywhere near the top of condition damaging professions in the game.

So what exactly are they good at if not sustained damage, spike damage, sustain, or condie damage? Portal and Moa in combination with an semi-OPd F5 to double up on Moa. Period.

One problem now is due to needing healing power for RI, the poor selection of amulets in pvp is even more apparent.

I’ve sadly had to drop Viper in pvp for Sage amulet (still using Viper in wvw thankfully because it works there) as Viper in pvp is just pure suicide right now.

It’s almost like I’m being encouraged to bunker up rather than play more offensive with hybrid stats…

Would be nice to see a jewel system brought back to the amulets so I could spec Viper amulet with Sage jewel or something.

I clearly overestimated the slow on trap instead of daze and buffs to condi rev. That being said,

Curunen.8729:

One problem now is due to needing healing power for RI, the poor selection of amulets in pvp is even more apparent.

I’ve sadly had to drop Viper in pvp for Sage amulet (still using Viper in wvw thankfully because it works there) as Viper in pvp is just pure suicide right now.

It’s almost like I’m being encouraged to bunker up rather than play more offensive with hybrid stats…

Would be nice to see a jewel system brought back to the amulets so I could spec Viper amulet with Sage jewel or something.

Some quick math though if you want to keep inspiration but not a healing power amulet:
PvE/WvW healing with 3 illusions: 1,448 (0.2). 36% loss is a 521 healing loss. The 285% increase to 0.2 means 0.57. With inspiration giving 300 healing power, that’s an extra 111 healing compared to before. The extra 175 healing power from a rune is also an extra 100 healing to a 0-3 illusion shatter. Doesn’t make up in full for the 521 loss but it might be enough for you. Now let’s look at bonus effects.

Rune of the grove creates an entangle effect every 90 seconds and has bonus protection. Damage reduction and the wtf surprise factor could work. Rune of water and flock both give bonus 755 (0.5) healing in a 600 radius when you use #6. Some nice team support. Water also has bonus condi clear while flock has a bonus bird attack that blinds. Rune of the guardian is 175 toughness, 100 healing power and 1.4 seconds of burn on block with that viper amulet. No ICD. If your condi clear fine, the 175 toughness is ~9% damage reduction which also means less healing power required.

So condi rune + sage amulet vs healing rune + the viper amulet you like. I personally think the condi duration heavily outweighs the condi damage when it comes to raw stats. It depends on which tier/MMR you are in but personally, I think you should try rune of the guardian. It’s a “jewels” worth of healing power and toughness. At low tiers most people just spam attacks. At higher tiers I’ve noticed ppl will still attack but then dodge the illusion summon. 400 bonus damage for every single one of those block is nothing to scoff at. Possibly bring scepter for more block and illusion spam.

Windwalker.7421:

Lalainnia, I fixed a few things for ya! toodles!

This must be some kind of joke reply because chronomancers are totally not fine in spvp, condie or power. If people really still believe silly stuff like Mesmers/Chronos are taken for anything else besides portal/moa they should probably actually try playing one in spvp instead of using a really worn out theme. (Or suggesting they are fine after a series of crippling nerfs to every single build that was viable in the past year.)

As for the nerf, it further hurt —quite badly-- the already completely non-existent power builds, and did nothing but appease the whiners (cough cough) about the only semi-potent build this class has left. Nevermind that Mesmers are not stackable, don’t have nearly the sustain and DPS output of various other professions, and also don’t have the spike damage (and sustain) of many other professions. Lastly even the meta condie shatter build that bads like to cry about once in awhile (FAR FAR less than they do about DH, Warrior, pre-nerf Rev, or Ele I might add!), isn’t even anywhere near the top of condition damaging professions in the game.

So what exactly are they good at if not sustained damage, spike damage, sustain, or condie damage? Portal and Moa in combination with an semi-OPd F5 to double up on Moa. Period.

You should try playing the game instead of just reading forums

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

I clearly overestimated the slow on trap instead of daze and buffs to condi rev. That being said,

Curunen.8729:

One problem now is due to needing healing power for RI, the poor selection of amulets in pvp is even more apparent.

I’ve sadly had to drop Viper in pvp for Sage amulet (still using Viper in wvw thankfully because it works there) as Viper in pvp is just pure suicide right now.

It’s almost like I’m being encouraged to bunker up rather than play more offensive with hybrid stats…

Would be nice to see a jewel system brought back to the amulets so I could spec Viper amulet with Sage jewel or something.

Some quick math though if you want to keep inspiration but not a healing power amulet:
PvE/WvW healing with 3 illusions: 1,448 (0.2). 36% loss is a 521 healing loss. The 285% increase to 0.2 means 0.57. With inspiration giving 300 healing power, that’s an extra 111 healing compared to before. The extra 175 healing power from a rune is also an extra 100 healing to a 0-3 illusion shatter. Doesn’t make up in full for the 521 loss but it might be enough for you. Now let’s look at bonus effects.

Rune of the grove creates an entangle effect every 90 seconds and has bonus protection. Damage reduction and the wtf surprise factor could work. Rune of water and flock both give bonus 755 (0.5) healing in a 600 radius when you use #6. Some nice team support. Water also has bonus condi clear while flock has a bonus bird attack that blinds. Rune of the guardian is 175 toughness, 100 healing power and 1.4 seconds of burn on block with that viper amulet. No ICD. If your condi clear fine, the 175 toughness is ~9% damage reduction which also means less healing power required.

So condi rune + sage amulet vs healing rune + the viper amulet you like. I personally think the condi duration heavily outweighs the condi damage when it comes to raw stats. It depends on which tier/MMR you are in but personally, I think you should try rune of the guardian. It’s a “jewels” worth of healing power and toughness. At low tiers most people just spam attacks. At higher tiers I’ve noticed ppl will still attack but then dodge the illusion summon. 400 bonus damage for every single one of those block is nothing to scoff at. Possibly bring scepter for more block and illusion spam.

Thank you for that analysis!

Yeah in wvw I can build some cele in to round out the stats, provide 1/3 crit chance and reasonable healing power so if Anet decided to apply the pvp nerfs to wvw then I’d still be fine.

I forgot about the extra 100 healing power per illusion shattered, which helps.

I tried the pure healing power runes but found condi damage was getting a bit low to be worth the benefit. If there was a healing power / condi damage rune set I’d try that.

Also unfortunately I don’t really like Shield or Scepter so usually building more around evades (BF, energy sigils) and stealth (torch) than blocks, so Guardian rune wouldn’t work well in my situation.

However I did stumble again upon the wonderful rune of the Revenant! I forgot how useful this rune was (I used to use it with fully traited mirror heal and it was great). More importantly it provides a rounding of stats that Cele does for me in wvw – it allows me to reach that 33.3% crit chance which I like to have – I have been using Sigils of Air with this as they proc quite often and I’m hitting on average 700 damage each time. The fury from Staff auto and iMage helps with these sigils. Best of all that 2s resistance is so clutch with Mantra of Recovery – it’s nice to have a safety net if condi bombed you can instantly proc it with power return and have a couple of seconds to decide how to manage the situation.

Yes unfortunately the rune only provides 60 healing power, but full shatters are healing over 1200 health which I’m getting comfortable with now.

Here’s the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8fl0nhy0YnawRNwtGLvGFaAkTPX9wesL75PEEHHA-TJBFABL8EAsf/BAuIAnXGAA

On second thoughts this build is way too glassy – you get wrecked by the slightest sneeze and with all the overpowered damage out there it is difficult to sustain long enough to deal damage.

I’m currently playing power chrono with marauder amulet and pack runes, Dueling-Illusions-Chrono and in all honesty, I’m performing much better than the Condi meta build. Granted it requires more skill and more attention but it excels in 1v1 combat. You have access to a ton of cc if you use F5 correctly, and blinds on every shatter to secure stomps or block bursts. Illusionary reversion isn’t needed because of deception evasion so you can always have a clone out when you need it. Its also really good at kiting but like always, dragonhunters will be your greatest enemy.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAR8encfCFqhNqBmpBEgiFcjqMAWtfpOWv1cFN3aieD-TZBFABLcQAa7KAUz+DA8AAEvMAA

Yeah the simple truth is that —any way you slice it-- we have to choose between (mediocre) sustain OR doing damage, and almost no other profession has to do that; at least not to the extreme that Mesmers do…this goes especially for all power builds.

Myren, I think you’ll find that most of your sustain actually comes from your shield, BF, Decoy and perfect positioning/play, and not from the Marauder. If you get locked down you die just as fast with 21k HPs as with 16k.

I would actually recommend trying out Zerker Amulet, it is a significant spike damage boost for almost no real loss of sustain. Especially since you have Dueling to cover Fury, and you have the 10% extra crit chance on MW.

It’s a high risk high reward build any way you slice it. Against less skilled/inexperienced opponents you can do really well in these kind of builds, or of course if you have a good team to cover your weaknesses and allow you to be the force-multiplier that you are as a GC Power Mesmer.

However, these builds are very frustrating to play in poor pug teams vs. the current DH/Ele/Warrior meta. Any halfway competent player of these classes will not die to your bursts and then you will learn the truth…they get damage AND sustain, we do not.

Not to even mention condition classes are the bane of your existence. That iDisenchanter takes too long to cast and isn’t nearly enough cleanse to deal with any condition dump.

GL though, can be a fun build for sure!

Personally I’ve reached a point where I’m fed up with the pathetic lack of gear customisation in pvp. It’s too restrictive and doesn’t allow any creativity.

Mesmers are fine in PvP. Any difficulties can be directly tied to user error.

Azukas.1426:

Mesmers are fine in PvP. Any difficulties can be directly tied to user error.

I respect your opinion on the matter, but it would be far more helpful if you would contribute more than just a one liner. What build are you talking about? Are you in a duo with someone or playing pugs solo? Are you of average skill or much higher?

You can always say about every profession in this game that difficulties can be directly attributed to user error. Unfortunately, that means very little in terms of that class actually being balanced and viable. If it takes a pro for one profession to be barely viable, and several other professions can be played competitively by a much lower skilled individual, then your argument holds no water.

So please, indulge me with a little more information so I can tell where you’re coming from making that statement.

Hey Wind! I appreciate you talking about my build and I tried what you suggested. Berserker amulet is a huge upgrade in power but the extra health from Marauder allows for mistakes and more capabilities in surviving condi bombs. I also think you severely underestimate Phantasmal Disenchanter. Its one of the most useful condi cleanse abilities now because of reduced cast time. It helps a lot against warriors who want to just fart out boons and faceroll.

Oh I didn’t mean to imply that the iDisenchanter isn’t good! I realize it casts very fast now and between the cleanses and the boon ripping it’s a very nice utility now. (Too bad we don’t really have a slot for it in most builds, not without giving up either Portal or another great personal survival/mobility utility.)

What I meant was, that it’s not an adequate replacement for personal cleansing when you just got condie dumped. It’s just a long cast time that is easily interrupted in group fights.

What would be nice is to have a similar trait in Chaos that pops out an iDisenchanter like Mental Defence pops out an iDefender in Inspiration.

That would accomplish several things – reduce dependency on Inspiration for Condi cleanse, provide another means of illusion generation than having to rely on Duelling or Inspiration, provide an alternate source of boon strip other than Shattered Concentration, make Chaos worth taking as a trait line…

Ideally this trait should be grandmaster level – perhaps simply replacing PU? Or move either Bountiful Disillusionment or Chaotic Interruption down (rearrange and perhaps remove one of the lower tier traits) and put this iDisenchanter trait alongside PU so they are mutually exclusive.

Yeah that would not be a bad idea really.

Windwalker.7421:

Azukas.1426:

Mesmers are fine in PvP. Any difficulties can be directly tied to user error.

I respect your opinion on the matter, but it would be far more helpful if you would contribute more than just a one liner. What build are you talking about? Are you in a duo with someone or playing pugs solo? Are you of average skill or much higher?

You can always say about every profession in this game that difficulties can be directly attributed to user error. Unfortunately, that means very little in terms of that class actually being balanced and viable. If it takes a pro for one profession to be barely viable, and several other professions can be played competitively by a much lower skilled individual, then your argument holds no water.

So please, indulge me with a little more information so I can tell where you’re coming from making that statement.

I would say moderate to high skill level for the class on the condi chrono build. Anet has really pushed the skill floor up on mesmer and that’s a,good thing.

Now if you are moderate skill vs high skill playerset you should get demolished. Before this wasn’t the case but I feel we as a class are approaching a state of balance with the rest of the game.

So after bouncing back and forth between several builds and amulets I’ve found myself most comfortable on Sage plus Scavenging (and double Energy/Doom sigils) on standard Inspiration/Illusions/Chrono.

Unlike Viper you can take a punch, which is kind of necessary when you can’t 100-0 an enemy as you can with power builds.

It’s not the most exciting gameplay but anyway…

Windwalker.7421:

It seems we have only have 1 build and all others must continue to suffer the wrath of the nerf bat nonetheless. /facepalm

They can (but don’t) judge who to nerf by measuring how successful a particular class is in PvP.