Guild Wars 2

Um. While I agree with the general proposition:

The first one is a bug fix. It’s a bug fix that results in a minor nerf, but swapping with a destroyed clone was certainly not working as intended. Personally, I’d rather the skill get buffed in other ways (such as giving it a longer range or shorter cast time so it actually works as a gap-closer – as it is now, by the time you can swap, if you’d just run up to them you’d be in melee with them anyway) than leaving it in a bugged state because it’s weak without the bug.

On the second… I haven’t actually used Mimic yet, but from my understanding of the way it works, a longer channel time is actually a buff. The channel time is the duration of the effect – when you stop channeling, the effect ends.

Whats the point in fixing the Illusionary Leap ‘swap places’ when the leap its self only works 3% of the time??

Why should you expect to swap places with a non-existant clone? Summon it and swap instantly, frenzy away then do whatever. These are not nerfs, they are bug-fixes.

If you think the nerf to illusionary leap was only minor then you had no idea how to use sword main hand as a Mesmer before patch. Having the skill as a reliable stun break, combo finisher and teleport was invaluable to high level Mesmer melee game play. Now the skill is reduced to 1 dimensional because it encourages swapping immediately or the clone will get destroyed anyway rendering the skill completely useless.

Funky.4861:

Why should you expect to swap places with a non-existant clone? Summon it and swap instantly, frenzy away then do whatever. These are not nerfs, they are bug-fixes.

I expect my mesmer to work 110% or no RLM! Simple

Funky.4861:

Why should you expect to swap places with a non-existant clone? Summon it and swap instantly, frenzy away then do whatever. These are not nerfs, they are bug-fixes.

Why not? The clone was only a pointer to where the Mesmer is going to potentially teleport to.

I’ve lost all hope of anet fixing mesmers ever since they managed to completely screw up iWardens.

Buff the mesmer! They are already so easy to kilL!

It’s ok to fix stuff, but mesmers have been suffering for two years because of the bugs afflicting many of their skills. Why would they only fix the skills that had a good use and just ignore the ones that are totally useless?

Why cheat warrior? Warrior- swap weapon 4 sec, signet healer320-350, elite 45 sec and heavy armor. Really warrior-NERF.

I wouldn’t blame ANet for this fix, but I do blame them for a lot of other things remaining not fixed. If you’re a mesmer with Sword/Focus, two out of your five weapon skills don’t work right. I can even understand not being able to fix some things, but then you have to work around the limitations, not ignore them for almost two years. Not that workarounds are good practice, but they’re better than the mess mesmers are in right now.

squallaus.8321:

Funky.4861:

Why should you expect to swap places with a non-existant clone? Summon it and swap instantly, frenzy away then do whatever. These are not nerfs, they are bug-fixes.

Why not? The clone was only a pointer to where the Mesmer is going to potentially teleport to.

You’re twisting it. The clone was a clone who attacks with your 1st skill chain, who you can swap places with provided that it exists. That’s what the tooltip says, and they fixed it when what it actually did did not match what the tooltip said.

Eye Two.1538:

Why cheat warrior? Warrior- swap weapon 4 sec, signet healer320-350, elite 45 sec and heavy armor. Really warrior-NERF.

What elite 45 seconds on warrior? I think thief has Basilisk Venom elite that recharges on 45 seconds.

Warrior’s shortest recharge is Signet of Rage, 60-48 seconds depending on traits.

Other thing about warriors being that they take the full brunt of everything before they really can do damage, but can mitigate that damage for short time. Also that their ranged attacks are not very powerful at all, well, against multible foes tho.

But I think that ANet should really include the balance philosophy on the profession playstyle sections, must be very clear too…

Copied from the Balance Philosophy news:
“Thief have a large utility set and extreme mobility. Hit and run is more of their playstyle. That is one of the reasons why their health pool reflects that.”

“Necros have more HP but they don’t have a lot of spike potential and reflects more of a sustained potential.Guardians are the same, low HP but a lot of sustain potential.”

“Sarcraft in the early days – Terran wasn’t as good but once community learned how to play Terrans (i.e. the Koreans) they were really powerful. Elementalist is the same. At first people didn’t know how to play the class but once they know how to elementalist started to dominate and we had to tone it down.”

“Mesmer: Misdirection, crowd control, utility. Brought in for utility all the way from GW1.”

Amphibian Pal Lush.4185:

Update – July 1, 2014:

Illusionary Leap: Fixed a bug that allowed players to swap places with their clone after it was destroyed.

Oh, yes. Because this was SUCH a game breaking bug. Now, sword is less viable for mesmers. The skill we need to apply immobility for our blurred frenzy setup, you know- the one that summons the clone that constantly gets cleaved in both PvE and PvP, shattered, and AoE’d, is now dependent on the clone. Thanks, ANet. You guys really do know how to keep each profession viable in their own ways, since this is such a competitive game in PvP.

Mimic: Fixed a bug that caused the underwater channel for this skill to be shorter than the land channel.

Why? Why the constant differing between land and aquatic skills that aren’t even necessary? Who complained that the channeling for mimic was too long underwater? What is the point of this nerf? Someone, please, explain.

Spinning Revenge: Fixed an issue that caused the clone created by this skill to use a version of Siren’s Call that did not apply boons to allies.

Our one buff, kind of, and it’s for underwater combat. ’Cause you all know how much we love underwater combat.

Following the trend of these updates, I predict that there will be an update prohibiting entry in the Heart of the Mists as a mesmer, displaying “you are not as viable as any soldier profession, and are an extra leg in an engineer, warrior, and necromancer meta,” in bright, red, bold letters.

Honestly, my opinion on which classes are overpowered, are underpowered, or which ones are in the current meta are irrelevant. The fact remains that mesmer gets nerfed while all of the other professions get skill facts, other professions get proper scaling, and other professions have traits function with skills properly.
Instead of nerfing irrationally, can’t you bring a profession inline with others, so that each can be effective in its own way? Can someone please explain to me the point of nerfing mesmer so much? Is there some overpowered exploit with mesmers I’m not seeing?

For the love of God, stop nerfing mesmers. Anyone complaining about mesmers being overpowered has to have trouble targeting, or something.

TL;DR: Other professions get skill facts and scaling, and mesmers get nerfed because of reasons.

So to say that a bug fix right now and a nerf? sorry friend I play mesmer since the beta test and this update does not change anything for me, hardly anyone gets me in spvp 1×1 and I use sword, sorry but you can not play with another class look that suits you best

This wasn’t a nerf OP. This was a fix.

Obviously in the first instance, the fact that you could swap with a clone that no longer existed was a bug. You can’t swap with something that isn’t there. This is like saying you don’t need to cast the clone to teleport to it’s location in the first place.

As for mimic, I think you read it wrong. They didn’t shorten the channel time under water, it was already doing that. They fixed it so that it works correctly and has the same channel time as the land version.

Marcelinho.3190:

So to say that a bug fix right now and a nerf? sorry friend I play mesmer since the beta test and this update does not change anything for me, hardly anyone gets me in spvp 1×1 and I use sword, sorry but you can not play with another class look that suits you best

Or u terrybad with your sword, or u lying. U had to use stun break on sword vs hambows. And now its harder to do it, because they just instakill your clone.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Obviously in the first instance, the fact that you could swap with a clone that no longer existed was a bug. You can’t swap with something that isn’t there. This is like saying you don’t need to cast the clone to teleport to it’s location in the first place.

But, for any other prof, u can leap on enemy, that doesnt exist. Yeah. No hypocrisy here.

sword is horrid now. if it was a bug fix or a nerf.. it nerfed the weapon. so say bug fix all you want.

if there is a blanket decrease in the weapons effectiveness then the weapon is nerfed.. how is that hard to understand. if it was a bug fix and the weapon got worse.. it is still a nerf. if you cant swap now because the logic of swapping with dead clone dosent make sense and that had to be corrected.. its still a nerf. silly to think otherwise.

Sergoros.4398:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Obviously in the first instance, the fact that you could swap with a clone that no longer existed was a bug. You can’t swap with something that isn’t there. This is like saying you don’t need to cast the clone to teleport to it’s location in the first place.

But, for any other prof, u can leap on enemy, that doesnt exist. Yeah. No hypocrisy here.

That’s a slightly different topic, and I don’t necessarily disagree. I was simply commenting on how the mechanic is supposed / intended to work. You can’t swap with a clone that doesn’t exist. Just like you can’t shadow return if the ‘portal’ expires (10 – 15 seconds, depending on if you’re using the utility skill or sword 2). Good for the goose, good for the gander, in that regard.

Now, in terms of having to generate a clone with which to swap with vs just having a straight gap closer, it has it’s pros and cons. It makes for an interesting mechanic, but that does generate the con of not only requiring a foe, but also being in range. Unlike bulls charge or savage leap where they can use it even if there is no foe, or if the foe is outside the range to close the gap faster.

On the other hand, magnetic leap for ele functions the same way, they require a foe and being within range, so we aren’t the only ones with this type of skill. Although ML has a greater range. So, I wouldn’t call it hypocrisy exactly.

Beyond that, the clone from this skill doesn’t function any different from any other clone / phant… you have to have a foe in order to summon / generate them. It doesn’t matter if you’re using scepter, greatsword, or utility skills. If you hit an illusion skill without a foe (or without being in range, or if the foe is invuln), no illusion is generated. That’s just how the mechanics for this class work. Sometimes it’s a pain, but, it also keeps it interesting.

Edit: I will say that my biggest complaint with IL is simply that it does not work consistently at its given range maximum (600). It only works about 50% of the time at that range, which I think is something that might need looking at.

However, Lanfear. The reason many consider the ILeap fix a net “nerf” is simple. Namely, that the base pathing mechanics of the skill have been wonky from word go. With that in mind, plus the recent change, the skill’s effectiveness (which was not epic, but was at least workable) has eaten a net decrease.
Then you also need to keep in mind the simmering disgust that existed prior to that patch. Hell, the class doesn’t have a bug list, it has a Bug-cyclopedia. And certain fixes/buffs that were promised last “balance” patch (Illusionary Elasticity working on clones, IWarden back to spec, and Triumphant Distortion without an ICD … just as a few examples) have never materialized.
I’m willing to wager, that if those things would have happened, you’d see less of a kitten-storm, RE: ILeap. /shrug

One fact hasn’t really been added. Whether or not this bug fix is or was needed, what it has done is make our class mechanic not function properly. If said mesmer uses I leap while having 2 phantasm up then dodge rolls to avoid damage what happens to the skill? It goes on cooldown and we are punished for avoiding damage and using the proper skill. The conflict created is the biggest problem now.

Advent.6193:

However, Lanfear. The reason many consider the ILeap fix a net “nerf” is simple. Namely, that the base pathing mechanics of the skill have been wonky from word go. With that in mind, plus the recent change, the skill’s effectiveness (which was not epic, but was at least workable) has eaten a net decrease.
Then you also need to keep in mind the simmering disgust that existed prior to that patch. Hell, the class doesn’t have a bug list, it has a Bug-cyclopedia. And certain fixes/buffs that were promised last “balance” patch (Illusionary Elasticity working on clones, IWarden back to spec, and Triumphant Distortion without an ICD … just as a few examples) have never materialized.
I’m willing to wager, that if those things would have happened, you’d see less of a kitten-storm, RE: ILeap. /shrug

All classes have bugs, it’s just the pitfall of all games. (Mesmer had its fun with bugs in GW1 too). Some have more than others. It sucks, but that’s life.

Yes, I understand ILeap is wonky. As I pointed out, my biggest gripe with it is that it is not consistent. I think if perhaps that were fixed (maybe even extend the range to match MLeap?) people would be much happier. Then the aforementioned bug fix wouldn’t have been so much of a gripe. (It’s not really any different than trying to shatter something that’s not there if you think about it)

Bugs are interesting things to track down. Sometimes they are easy to find and fix. Sometimes they aren’t. Sometimes its one obscure tiny piece of coding that causes the issue, but adjusting it to fix bug ‘a’ now introduced bugs ‘z’ ‘f’ and ‘g.’ In short debugging really, really sucks in large code bases (UTs and ITs are lovely things devs). Hopefully eventually the others will be fixed, but until such time, kittening about it really doesn’t help.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sergoros.4398:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Obviously in the first instance, the fact that you could swap with a clone that no longer existed was a bug. You can’t swap with something that isn’t there. This is like saying you don’t need to cast the clone to teleport to it’s location in the first place.

But, for any other prof, u can leap on enemy, that doesnt exist. Yeah. No hypocrisy here.

That’s a slightly different topic, and I don’t necessarily disagree. I was simply commenting on how the mechanic is supposed / intended to work. You can’t swap with a clone that doesn’t exist. Just like you can’t shadow return if the ‘portal’ expires (10 – 15 seconds, depending on if you’re using the utility skill or sword 2). Good for the goose, good for the gander, in that regard.

Bad example. U can swap only for 4 seconds after activating a skill. Even if clone survives. So it sure isnt clone dependent. Hm. Maybe it would have been true, if they prolonged swap for as long as clone lives… But no. It still works for 4 seconds or even shorter, if clone dies.

Sergoros.4398:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sergoros.4398:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Obviously in the first instance, the fact that you could swap with a clone that no longer existed was a bug. You can’t swap with something that isn’t there. This is like saying you don’t need to cast the clone to teleport to it’s location in the first place.

But, for any other prof, u can leap on enemy, that doesnt exist. Yeah. No hypocrisy here.

That’s a slightly different topic, and I don’t necessarily disagree. I was simply commenting on how the mechanic is supposed / intended to work. You can’t swap with a clone that doesn’t exist. Just like you can’t shadow return if the ‘portal’ expires (10 – 15 seconds, depending on if you’re using the utility skill or sword 2). Good for the goose, good for the gander, in that regard.

Bad example. U can swap only for 4 seconds after activating a skill. Even if clone survives. So it sure isnt clone dependent. Hm. Maybe it would have been true, if they prolonged swap for as long as clone lives… But no. It still works for 4 seconds or even shorter, if clone dies.

Its the same concept / principle – a time limit. For shadow return its 10 seconds, for the clone it’s five (if it lives). If swap remained available for the life of the clone (which in certain situations can be quite long), it could be potentially very out of balance. Allowing the mesmer to repeatedly swap in and out of melee range, which isn’t our intended play style.

Now, I could see making the swap time longer, but still dependent on clone survival.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sergoros.4398:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sergoros.4398:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Obviously in the first instance, the fact that you could swap with a clone that no longer existed was a bug. You can’t swap with something that isn’t there. This is like saying you don’t need to cast the clone to teleport to it’s location in the first place.

But, for any other prof, u can leap on enemy, that doesnt exist. Yeah. No hypocrisy here.

That’s a slightly different topic, and I don’t necessarily disagree. I was simply commenting on how the mechanic is supposed / intended to work. You can’t swap with a clone that doesn’t exist. Just like you can’t shadow return if the ‘portal’ expires (10 – 15 seconds, depending on if you’re using the utility skill or sword 2). Good for the goose, good for the gander, in that regard.

Bad example. U can swap only for 4 seconds after activating a skill. Even if clone survives. So it sure isnt clone dependent. Hm. Maybe it would have been true, if they prolonged swap for as long as clone lives… But no. It still works for 4 seconds or even shorter, if clone dies.

Its the same concept / principle – a time limit. For shadow return its 10 seconds, for the clone it’s five (if it lives). If swap remained available for the life of the clone (which in certain situations can be quite long), it could be potentially very out of balance. Allowing the mesmer to repeatedly swap in and out of melee range, which isn’t our intended play style.

Now, I could see making the swap time longer, but still dependent on clone survival.

Clone survival. Time limit. Works only with target. Low range. Swaps only where clone not scared to run. Wrong range sends skill on cd….. Isnt it a bit to much for 1 skill?

Sergoros.4398:

Clone survival. Time limit. Works only with target. Low range. Swaps only where clone not scared to run. Wrong range sends skill on cd….. Isnt it a bit to much for 1 skill?

Clone survival is part of the theme of our mechanic. You can’t shatter what isn’t their either.

The time limit is a necessary evil for balance.

This isn’t the only skill that only works if you have a target, as I pointed out. Beyond that, all illusion generation requires a target. It’s part of the mechanics of the class.

To be fair, this has the same range as most of the other leap type skills. (Most, not all) I have mentioned that having it’s ranged tweaked some might be nice.

Pathing is an issue. Obviously that requires work, but pathing isn’t an issue with just this skill either.

Skills going on cool down outside of range is common for all skills. Not just ILeap. I agree it’s annoying, but mesmers aren’t the only ones that suffer from this issue.

Might be a bit much? Possibly. But what would you remove?

The time limit? Now the mesmer has the ability to swap in and out until the clones dies, which could potentially be some time. This is not intended to be the class’ play style.

The clone having to live? Well then, why can’t we shatter clones that no longer live? It’s the same thing.

Needing a target? Well, then all illusions would need to be adjusted so they could be summoned without a foe. Now the mesmer is watered down necro, because those illusions stay up until they are killed or shattered. Unless you put an arbitrary time limit on them, which I’m pretty sure no one would want as that time limit would apply in battle as well.

The removal of pathing has been suggested in the rework thread, but just generating the clone at the target location doesn’t eliminate the issue of pathing as its running back after the swap.

We could eliminate the clone generation all together and just make this a projectile like MLeap, but I highly doubt that’s what people desire either.

draxynnic.3719:

Um. While I agree with the general proposition:

The first one is a bug fix. It’s a bug fix that results in a minor nerf, but swapping with a destroyed clone was certainly not working as intended.

or you know… they could of just changed the skill description.

You know, I don’t even think the devs were all on the same page when it came to whether or not this was a bug. What I think happened was that it was originally decided to be working fine and then somewhere along the line someone else decided it was a bug.

To those saying “look at the tooltip! it was clearly a bug” the tooltips are not the most reliable things to count on, and the devs don’t always realize what’s a bug and what’s not depending on the tooltip. For example…

Pyroatheist.9031:

Tyler Chapman.1832:

There was some confusion regarding the malicious sorcery + Illusionist’s celerity. I made a mistake. To clear things up, using combinations such as Wardens Feedback and Illusionist’s celerity shouldn’t double reduce phantasm skill cooldowns. I thought that was regarding that issue but I see it was for a mainhand trait.

~posting from home, apologies.

Tyler, doubling up on cooldown traits has been a feature since the beginning of the game.

Respectfully, I believe you’re badly mistaken.

The dev had assumed that the 40% cooldown reduction was a bug because of it not reflecting in the tooltip. Luckily Pyro helped prevent it from getting “fixed.” The same argument here could’ve applied there. “Look at the tooltip, it was obviously a bug!”

If the devs actually played the class, they’d know what a big nerf this is and there’s a chance the tooltip would’ve just been changed to “Swap places with the clone’s last position” or they could’ve exercised a bit of foresight and creativity by realizing how badly this hurts the class and instead changing the skill to be something more like “Feigned Surge” (Spear 2 I believe) where you leap forward rather than the clone and then teleport BACKWARDS to your last position, applying the immob in an AoE where you used to be.

And to those who don’t think the nerf really changed anything… I’m sorry to say but no matter how long you’ve been playing, you weren’t using the sword to it’s fullest potential (though technically it also depends on what gametype you play). There were a lot of creative tricks you could pull off with the teleport; one of the best techniques, especially for a Mes using CI, was sending the clone out, F3 shattering it, and swapping in behind the daze.

If there’s any bug to the skill, it’s the stunbreak. I’d rather that have gotten fixed rather than the asinine clone swap “fix.”

So, I popped back into this thread, and I came across a lot of…
“It’s not a nerf, it’s a bugfix, and it is now working as intended.”

Do none of you people know of the saying, “if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it?” Because of our supposed fix, an effective move for a less effective profession, compared to others, is less viable now. It’s a nerf.
If this is how it was supposed to be working, then I feel mainhand sword would have been tossed to fade away into obscurity a LONG time ago.
No one had a problem with it, there were plenty of other bugs that “weren’t working as intended,” and fixing them would have helped mesmers more than anything.

…So, why?

I can think of quite a few other recent buffs/fixes.

- Empowering Mantras was previously bugged to be 2% per active instead of 4%. Now it’s properly 4%, i.e. twice the buff.
- Mantra of Concentration and Resolve are now AOE applications..
- Phantasmal Haste now works for Swordsmen.
- Phantasmal Wardens now follow the target properly.
- Illusionist’s Celerity is now a master trait rather than a grandmaster.
- The Prestige is now an actual stealth application rather than a crappy channel.
- Mind Spike now deals extra damage against boon-less targets.
- Signet of the Ether is one of the best heal skills in the game.

I’m sure there’s a bunch more but that’s what I’ve got off the top of my head. So yeah, nothing but nerfs, bad class.

That teleport while clone dead was the only reason you you could run sword reliably in WvW. Now they robbed us of one of our best AoE’s… I thought they were trying to HELP our AoE’s according to that stupid livestream… This better be a ‘fix’ so they can do something much better next patch, we are down 3 weapons now unusable.

I love this game but I can’t even muster the enthusiasm to bother logging in because my poor mesmers quality of life is pretty much literally non-existant. We hardly have working trait lines, so our only viable use is ‘Oh you have a good utility for this we’ll temporarily take a drop in DPS for it then kick you once you aren’t useful, come pretend your having fun while we actually do’. Of course that is only in old content… you make sure our utility doesn’t work in new stuff(like reflect) so we aren’t even welcome in a lot of PvE parties.

But hey, thanks for fixing this REALLY important bug, I’m sure that person couldn’t have been doing anything more productive to getting the state of the game(and mesmers) into a better more stable, less dependent on berserker gear and our effortless kitten weapons GS/Staff, viable place.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I can think of quite a few other recent buffs/fixes.

- Empowering Mantras was previously bugged to be 2% per active instead of 4%. Now it’s properly 4%, i.e. twice the buff.
- Mantra of Concentration and Resolve are now AOE applications..
- Phantasmal Haste now works for Swordsmen.
- Phantasmal Wardens now follow the target properly.
- Illusionist’s Celerity is now a master trait rather than a grandmaster.
- The Prestige is now an actual stealth application rather than a crappy channel.
- Mind Spike now deals extra damage against boon-less targets.
- Signet of the Ether is one of the best heal skills in the game.

I’m sure there’s a bunch more but that’s what I’ve got off the top of my head. So yeah, nothing but nerfs, bad class.

Every class has received buffs and nerfs. The problem is how much they’ve received. Mesmer still has tons of bugs, and even some skills have numerous bugs.
By repeating a fool hundreds of times doesn’t make it more truth.

BTW, half of points you said have never existed or they’re wrong.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I can think of quite a few other recent buffs/fixes.

- Empowering Mantras was previously bugged to be 2% per active instead of 4%. Now it’s properly 4%, i.e. twice the buff.
- Mantra of Concentration and Resolve are now AOE applications..
- Phantasmal Haste now works for Swordsmen.
- Phantasmal Wardens now follow the target properly.
- Illusionist’s Celerity is now a master trait rather than a grandmaster.
- The Prestige is now an actual stealth application rather than a crappy channel.
- Mind Spike now deals extra damage against boon-less targets.
- Signet of the Ether is one of the best heal skills in the game.

I’m sure there’s a bunch more but that’s what I’ve got off the top of my head. So yeah, nothing but nerfs, bad class.

Yay, Empowering Mantras is no longer in a tree with any other Mantra trait, surely we didn’t need the DPS! (Makes Mantra of Distraction better but makes Mantra builds a lot harder to get a decent build)

Yay, Mantra’s charge was lowered and those two are AoE so finally they are somewhat viable in a party(beyond Restorative Mantra’s tiny AoE heal). While I think their viable… it doesn’t seem many agree.

Yay, warden now follows but never attacks, no more depending on him as a small reflect shield and DPS against people too stupid to move!

Yay, swordsman our now best phantasm was made decent! Except they just killed the melee weapon you’d most likely use it with…

Yay, except they nerfed stealth at the same time they fixed it with Reveled and still doesn’t work with thief stealth(probably good things actually, but I wouldn’t call it a much a win for us)… And they nerfed the iMage’s confusion so it is so short it’s worthless even in PvP before finally fixing the AI… somewhat, so you’ll never use torch anyhow!

Yay, mind spike actually works making main hand sword more viable… except now it’s not thanks to this ‘fix’.

Signet of the Ether is wut? The passive heals less then warriors Healing Signet if you’ve managed to keep a clone alive longer then 1 tick. Oh wait but you get your phantasm back when you use and they’ll survive right? Except you don’t get the passive again for 35 seconds and by then they are probably dead. Don’t get me wrong, it is decent for a phantasm build but no where near any of the best heals.

I could go on with all their nerfs like our one good Elite, Time Warp… (If they’d just make it a Glamour I’d consider it again… maybe)

The fact that we lose 10-15% of our dps capability due to all the bugs. My question to Anet is, "Do they consider that fact when they “balance” the classes? (So far we have seen no evidence of it)

as i am GvG oriented Mesmer player.. i look 1 thing!!!

Why SHould i CHoose Mesmer in our organized synced large group composition??
- There is no restriction to choose any other classes
- Mesmer Compare to vs other classes in Efficient/Productivity (skipping eng and ranger [not knowladged about them])

• yes… just for Veil! nothing more… wierd… will not have any seats if not have veil :S
  i wish mesmer has no veil.. other classes will do more better things/awards with lower risks in any style/role

so nerfs… drowning to mesmer more deeps.. letting it less desirable/efficient/make room/fun… nerfs push mesmer to more lower who are already at the bottom…

and sorry i forgot what was scrub means? means who is playing game not for win… ?

yes play the game for win!

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- Mind Spike now deals extra damage against boon-less targets.

While they did “fix” the different coefficient trigger when your enemy has no boons, they also lowered it’s damage by 10%. It was both a fix and a ninja nerf all in one.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I can think of quite a few other recent buffs/fixes.

dis gon b gud

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- Empowering Mantras was previously bugged to be 2% per active instead of 4%. Now it’s properly 4%, i.e. twice the buff.

You’re wrong, this was never a thing.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- Mantra of Concentration and Resolve are now AOE applications..

1. This is recent?
2. The aoe radius is so small that you’ll get a molestation lawsuit if you try to use these reliably.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- Phantasmal Haste now works for Swordsmen.

Yes, phantasmal haste now works, 2 years into the game. This was a true fix though, so I’ll give it to you.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

-Phantasmal Wardens now follow the target properly.

Haha. Ha. Hmm. Not sure if serious or…

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- Illusionist’s Celerity is now a master trait rather than a grandmaster.

And you’re happily ignoring that it used to be a minor before they hit a home run with the nerf bat.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- The Prestige is now an actual stealth application rather than a crappy channel.

And this change is recent compared to…the 90’s?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- Mind Spike now deals extra damage against boon-less targets.

Yes, and this was bugged for months and months, and they even lowered the damage on it to compensate for the buff.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

- Signet of the Ether is one of the best heal skills in the game.

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Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I’m sure there’s a bunch more but that’s what I’ve got off the top of my head. So yeah, nothing but nerfs, bad class.

I’d love to hear these ‘bunch more’ you have hidden away somewhere.

The time has come where bug fixes are considered as buffs. Not that wierd though, with 30+ bugs on 1 single profession only. I like how arenanet seems to succes at every patch to bug 1 thing of mesmer by trying to buff or fix it.

Remember the chaos storm bug with falling damage? Yeah lets just make the damage equal to the tooltip, woops forgot to place the comma.

Or mirror of anquish that dealt 10x damage to shocking aura reflect + halting strike.

Or what about iwarden where they tried to buff it but totally bugged it instead.

All of these skills and probably some more I forgot got insta bugged when they tried to buff it. Maybe you shouldnt look at if it gets buffed by fixing it but rather by what caused it to bug.

Pyro, don’t waste any second to respond Guanglai. Has been whining the same things since the iLeap nerf:

Mesmer is still so OP it needs much more nerfs. Don’t know why people is crying about a bugfix when they got some bufs during last 2 years. Thank anet for giving you buffs. Mesmer damage is like infinity. Mesmers can autoattack while having 3 phantasms, other professions have to press keys to do things…

BlackDevil.9268:

The time has come where bug fixes are considered as buffs. Not that wierd though, with 30+ bugs on 1 single profession only. I like how arenanet seems to succes at every patch to bug 1 thing of mesmer by trying to buff or fix it.

Remember the chaos storm bug with falling damage? Yeah lets just make the damage equal to the tooltip, woops forgot to place the comma.

Or mirror of anquish that dealt 10x damage to shocking aura reflect + halting strike.

Or what about iwarden where they tried to buff it but totally bugged it instead.

All of these skills and probably some more I forgot got insta bugged when they tried to buff it. Maybe you shouldnt look at if it gets buffed by fixing it but rather by what caused it to bug.

So basically it doesn’t count if it’s a bugfix that results in a buff but it does if it’s a bugfix that results in a nerf?

Can you read? The skills that actually got buffed, like any profession has got skills that got buffed, were insta bugged and ’’nerfed’’ the moment they should’ve been buffed. If such bug gets fixed a few months later it’s nothing but a bug fix as all other classes got buffs too in that period of time. Then again, half of these ’’buffs’’ aren’t even noticeable or are total bullkitten as at least 3 of the things you said were not true.

Then again, I never believe this skill was meant to be like this as it is now and if it was then arenanet got some serious balancing issues when it comes to weaponsets.

The way arenanet nerfs:
1. Looks at statics / Complains at forum.
2. Is this weapon/skill/trait used much? nerf it
3. Buff other weapon sets/ change traits to help certain weapon sets
4. profi…. ehh

This doesn’t work on mesmer as sword is the only power mainhand weapon. I wouldnt be surprised if someone comes up and calls blurred frenzy op and the next thing you know it gets another nerf to 15 seconds cooldown or 0.5 shorter evade.
It’s just a certain patern that goes round and round with mesmers. ‘’confusion op nerf plx every mesmer runs it’’, conclusion: mesmer confusion gets hammered into the ground. Solution to an overkill nerf: allow more confusion skills/traits/runes in the game.

‘’omg mesmer so much immunity’’, conclusion: mesmer blurred frenzy gets nerfed into the ground. Solution to an overkill nerf: nerf the sword even more so no one is gonna use it.

Also, if this was a bug, then tell me: why didnt they ’’fix’’ this bug first before nerfing the other skills? Why did they wait 2 years to fix such easy bug as it was fixed within a week? How could they not have seen this ’’bug’’ after 1 year before nerfing blurred frenzy when 1 random dude can discover it in 1 week?

I really wish they would completely rework mesmers to work similar to gw1 mesmer

Remove the illusions since they bug out way too much, and relying on illusions that bug or die quickly for a large portion of damage is extremely annoying

It’s quite obvious that “fix” was used as an excuse to nerf illusionary leap. That is why it took anet 2 years to fix such a simple ‘bug’.

Yeah, I bet nerfing one skill was a super high priority for them when they were trying to push out a major content release and when they didn’t even so much as touch any of the other classes.

If you really hate the class so much just reroll, obviously you weren’t super committed to the class to begin with if being preventing from exploiting a super minor bug is enough to make you drop it.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Yeah, I bet nerfing one skill was a super high priority for them when they were trying to push out a major content release and when they didn’t even so much as touch any of the other classes.

Obviously it was, otherwise they wouldn’t have taken the dev time to do it. Additionally, the balance devs have absolutely nothing to do with living world content updates. The two teams do not interlap in any way, even when they should.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Yeah, I bet nerfing one skill was a super high priority for them when they were trying to push out a major content release and when they didn’t even so much as touch any of the other classes.

If you really hate the class so much just reroll, obviously you weren’t super committed to the class to begin with if being preventing from exploiting a super minor bug is enough to make you drop it.

there is a difference between hating the bugs of the class , and hating the class itself. (and its called proffession actually but nvm)

give back our original chaos armor !

squallaus.8321:

If you think the nerf to illusionary leap was only minor then you had no idea how to use sword main hand as a Mesmer before patch. Having the skill as a reliable stun break, combo finisher and teleport was invaluable to high level Mesmer melee game play. Now the skill is reduced to 1 dimensional because it encourages swapping immediately or the clone will get destroyed anyway rendering the skill completely useless.

Very much this. :<

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Yeah, I bet nerfing one skill was a super high priority for them when they were trying to push out a major content release and when they didn’t even so much as touch any of the other classes.

If you really hate the class so much just reroll, obviously you weren’t super committed to the class to begin with if being preventing from exploiting a super minor bug is enough to make you drop it.

Jesu… If you have nothing constructive to report then why don’t you just get off this forum? ‘’wow stop qq go reroll’’, maybe, at least even if you play mesmer, should you be the one rerolling. Obviously you have no knowledge about the class yet you come here talk how all mesmers with 4k+ hours are nothing more but a bunch of whiners.

Must be fun, annoying people. Get a life, seriously.

Funky.4861:

Why should you expect to swap places with a non-existant clone? Summon it and swap instantly, frenzy away then do whatever. These are not nerfs, they are bug-fixes.

Something that ANet (and many players, apparently) doesn’t seem to graps is that being able to swap back even after the clone was dead, was giving powerful creative choices to mesmers in their playstyle.

If you are supposed to swap instantly 100% of the time, just remove the “middle man”, give me a skill that creates a clone where I am, teleports me to the target and immobilizes it.

Instead we’re stuck with a broken first-part (the leap) that works about 50% of the time and a broken second-part (the swap) that is now useless because any decent pvp player will dodge just after the clone hits him, evading the immobilize, or the clone will just die to aoe/cleaves and the swap will not be possible.

This is not a “minor nerf”. To me, it shows ANet really doesn’t understand mesmer playstyle at all and they have no idea how to “fix” the class.

I’m tired of working around our list of bugged skills, traits and mechanics to have something barely playable and I’m not sure this class can be “fixed” without a major rework, but if ANet wants to try and fix it, I think they should start from that list of mesmer bugs sitting in the Game Bugs forum.