Guild Wars 2

So I’ve been around GW2 for a long time but the last two years + have been spent almost entirely in WvW. Recently I dropped WvW and in its place have taken up residence in sPvP. I’ve always been competitive in my approach to pvp but recently I’ve been expanding on that to take the mode of conquest seriously and to assure I’m playing to win.

Part of that has been gleaming knowledge from the forums and a couple of resources came before me which have been good to help make things happen. Whether you’re interested in taking this game mode seriously, or are casual but still want to get the most out of your play time, I recommend looking over these few things in order to do that.

Rotations
The first is a vid about Rotations and explanation of numerical splits (i.e. 1 4) and the like. Its basic knowledge that leads to success or defeat in the conquest setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvPb2jY19oU

HtMaDiSQ
Next is a thread in the PvP forum titled “How to make a difference in Solo Q”. It’s just 11 basic tips to keep in mind to do with all aspects of the game. So keep them in mind!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/How-to-make-a-difference-in-Solo-Q-s/first#

What we can learn from Thieves
The third I took from the Thief forum. It’s a vid for thieves looking to do their role in ranked pvp. While Mesmers aren’t thieves our role is similar, and because of the particular build I’m running I’m more thief than not. So I drew what I could from this and its been taking me a long way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9ZVE-s66G0

Match Vid
Finally to tie all this together I uploaded a vid of a match I ran last night in which I put all the above into action. Thankfully I had a really disciplined pug team who took my directions and just ran with it, and I think as far as matches go it resulted in the perfect game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeT2ai9MhqI&feature=youtu.be

Bad Rotations Match vid (more written in a post with same links below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb4i4yhvVbI&feature=youtu.be
Good Rotations Match vid (more written in a post with same links below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKpMw1gShbI&feature=youtu.be
Great team communication/Rotaions (more written in a post with same links below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlE8TzF8KCc&feature=youtu.be
Strong Roaming point DPS (more written in a post with same links below)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSw-_v1dqDA&feature=youtu.be

Build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQRAra8clknpRtlpxGNcrNipRYqeSHkMU6y2TA-TpBEABGcCAk4IAEy+DYXGAgDCABPAAA

Excellent thread man. Mind if I link it in the grimoire?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Excellent thread man. Mind if I link it in the grimoire?

Go nuts

Great thread, mind if I steal some stuff from here for my guide?
Have a wonderful rest of your day, much love!

J

Jurica.1742:

Great thread, mind if I steal some stuff from here for my guide?
Have a wonderful rest of your day, much love!

J

Take whatever you want. If you think about it I’ve drawn on three third party resources with which to create my thread around. Be inspired, create!

In the thief video, it says “If there’s incoming, don’t engage the fight unless it’s a thief or a mesmer.” so they know we got hard countered by them?

Shintei.9061:

In the thief video, it says “If there’s incoming, don’t engage the fight unless it’s a thief or a mesmer.” so they know we got hard countered by them?

I’m assuming that because its a video for ranked pvp it’s therefor competitive, and the assumption of the thief/video is that the only incoming mesmer would be a shatter mes. In which case, yes, hard countered.

If however some other mesmer build were inc and they didnt know it, it’d be a huge advantage for the mesmer in question.

So as far as the known meta is concerned he’s not wrong.

Of course they know that they counter us. You should always know who you counter and who you shouldn’t really 1v1 unless needed. For mesmers, you beat every class 1v1 at equal skill level instead of thief and ranger. You need to outplay both pretty severely to win against them. Necro is hard to kill until you reach a certain tier of skill (where you realize that you can’t tank stuff and that you need to position yourself and learn how to position against a necro) necro, warrior, DPS guard and dd ele all need a bit of practice but are usually in your favor.

Depends on what you run in pvp. I run a PU power build and I hard counter most thieves unless they are condi spec or extremely good s/d.
The key to mesmer in pvp for me is know who you are fighting and who is fighting with you on your team. For example if I have a good bunker engi on a pt I would stay with him no matter what because I know we can take and team of 2 and most 3. Even if it comes to 4 v 2 we can hold out long enough to let the rest of the team cap the other 2 pts. On the other hand if I’m with a thief or ranger and 2 warrior comes my way I would stay for 1 burst if we didn’t kill one of them I’m gone my dps is far more valuable to the team elsewhere.

It’s pretty impossible for a Mesmer to win against an equally skilled Thief. A single Stealth + Mug can almost kill you. If they re-stealth, you’re doomed the moment your stealth runes out.

Lewis Burnell.2493:

It’s pretty impossible for a Mesmer to win against an equally skilled Thief. A single Stealth + Mug can almost kill you. If they re-stealth, you’re doomed the moment your stealth runes out.

I’m not the best mesmer player by a long shot and I have played over 200 ranked pvp matches 99% of them solo Q. So either I’m the luckiest person in the world that I happen to run into all bad thieves or that it is possible to beat a thief with the right setup. I run GS/Staff Assassin amulet and play like a shatter mesmer .
Now in wvw thieves does hard counter me because all the gear + food makes their dps so high that there is nearly no counter. What I find in pvp is that you can tank a thief for a short while with a staff out. If you have ate away a large chunk of their health with GS (range advantage) the slow condi damage from staff + shatter pressure is usually enough to either kill them or force them to flee.

Mogar.9216:

Lewis Burnell.2493:

It’s pretty impossible for a Mesmer to win against an equally skilled Thief. A single Stealth + Mug can almost kill you. If they re-stealth, you’re doomed the moment your stealth runes out.

I’m not the best mesmer player by a long shot and I have played over 200 ranked pvp matches 99% of them solo Q. So either I’m the luckiest person in the world that I happen to run into all bad thieves or that it is possible to beat a thief with the right setup. I run GS/Staff Assassin amulet and play like a shatter mesmer .
Now in wvw thieves does hard counter me because all the gear + food makes their dps so high that there is nearly no counter. What I find in pvp is that you can tank a thief for a short while with a staff out. If you have ate away a large chunk of their health with GS (range advantage) the slow condi damage from staff + shatter pressure is usually enough to either kill them or force them to flee.

You are not playing against thieves of a high skill level then. A good thief will 99% of the time eat up an equally skilled mesmer in both pvp and wvw.

agroovywalrus.3821:

Mogar.9216:

Lewis Burnell.2493:

It’s pretty impossible for a Mesmer to win against an equally skilled Thief. A single Stealth + Mug can almost kill you. If they re-stealth, you’re doomed the moment your stealth runes out.

I’m not the best mesmer player by a long shot and I have played over 200 ranked pvp matches 99% of them solo Q. So either I’m the luckiest person in the world that I happen to run into all bad thieves or that it is possible to beat a thief with the right setup. I run GS/Staff Assassin amulet and play like a shatter mesmer .
Now in wvw thieves does hard counter me because all the gear + food makes their dps so high that there is nearly no counter. What I find in pvp is that you can tank a thief for a short while with a staff out. If you have ate away a large chunk of their health with GS (range advantage) the slow condi damage from staff + shatter pressure is usually enough to either kill them or force them to flee.

You are not playing against thieves of a high skill level then. A good thief will 99% of the time eat up an equally skilled mesmer in both pvp and wvw.

well if you can get to higher than 300 in ranked pvp and only encounter bad thieves ,what does it matter then even if you are right that somehow after you get into top 150 the skill level of thieves dramatically improves. Heck at least you are covered for the first few hundred matches :P

So after a lot of practicing against s/d and d/p thieves (On CI mes, shatter mes is just so hard countered by thief lol) I have actually found a way to beat both.

On s/d, if you interrupt sword 2(Yes you can actually interrupt the sword return, it really screws them up), consume plasma, and cloak and dagger, you actually can slaughter them (I was fighting amon and a couple of very good s/d thieves so don’t tell me skill is an issue lol).

As for d/p, if they don’t stay in SB permanently like caed does and completely hard counter you, you can the win fairly easily, especially if they use hide in shadows. Just interrupt heartseeker every time and remove the shadow shot blind with auto attacking or blurred frenzy.

However, it does take a good amount of skill to interrupt 1/2 cast times such as cloak and dagger and sword 2, but if you are good enough you can beat thieves, or at the very least, make them work very hard for the kill lol. Just my 2 cents from a CI mes perspective

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

So after a lot of practicing against s/d and d/p thieves (On CI mes, shatter mes is just so hard countered by thief lol) I have actually found a way to beat both.

On s/d, if you interrupt sword 2(Yes you can actually interrupt the sword return, it really screws them up), consume plasma, and cloak and dagger, you actually can slaughter them (I was fighting amon and a couple of very good s/d thieves so don’t tell me skill is an issue lol).

As for d/p, if they don’t stay in SB permanently like caed does and completely hard counter you, you can the win fairly easily, especially if they use hide in shadows. Just interrupt heartseeker every time and remove the shadow shot blind with auto attacking or blurred frenzy.

However, it does take a good amount of skill to interrupt 1/2 cast times such as cloak and dagger and sword 2, but if you are good enough you can beat thieves, or at the very least, make them work very hard for the kill lol. Just my 2 cents from a CI mes perspective

I’ll just add as a CS mes, yes, and in many ways its easire to just chain daze/stun them with phants on the prowl.

So I’ve got a few more gameplay vids coming through.

Knowing how to work things now myself I’ve gone out of my way to try to instruct my team with a basic plan. These are ranked matches so we’re not there to kitten but the teams are solo pugs.

So the first video is what happens when the team doesnt stick to the plan. I think on the ground our team was stronger in a group fight, but rotations went straight out the window and the entire match broke down from there. I ended up spending most of the match trying to determine where my team was because despite running back and forth between points, they were everywhere but where they were meant to be.

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb4i4yhvVbI&feature=youtu.be

The next video is what happens when the team DOES stick to the plan. With our basic goals laid out we run the match and obtain dominance. When this occurs things fall into place for the players involved. I, for example, am able to single out and pick off targets while shifting between points, eliminating enemy players from the fight deftly. In contrast to the first video this fell into place like it ought to. Bad rotations dont just lead to fewer points, they cause everybody to be less effective on an individual, per fight basis.

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKpMw1gShbI&feature=youtu.be

This match had great communication and rotations. If you read the chat our warrior who took home was drunk, so while freely chatty he needed some direct communication, perhaps costing us the initial fight at mid. The team was solid though and very map aware so between the lot of us we washed back and forth with the flow of the fight, eventually taking the initiative and opportunity to rush the lord for an unnecessarily decisive win.

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlE8TzF8KCc&feature=youtu.be

No one is saying you can’t beat a Thief as a Mesmer, but it is unquestionably difficult against skilled Thieves. Like I said, a single Stealth + Mug is enough to take almost half your health. Any competent Thief will Stealth again and burst you once more. If you’re beating Thieves easily it’s because those Thieves are bad at their class.

Lewis Burnell.2493:

No one is saying you can’t beat a Thief as a Mesmer, but it is unquestionably difficult against skilled Thieves. Like I said, a single Stealth + Mug is enough to take almost half your health. Any competent Thief will Stealth again and burst you once more. If you’re beating Thieves easily it’s because those Thieves are bad at their class.

Well that’s one conclusion you could draw. Another would be that you’re bringing something to the fight to even the playing field. Shatter mes, from all ive heard, read, and experienced, only comes with dumb luck. So, I guess what you’re saying has to be taken with a frame of reference.

A single stealth + Mug can take almost half your health? Cool. One lockdown chain won’t even allow a thief to restealth, assuming he stealthed the first time. GG.

A Berserker Shatter Mesmer has around 18,000 Health. A Mug combined with a Backstab and/or Plasma is more than enough to deal 8,000 damage, especially if Superior Sigil of Air and Fire trigger.

Only just now on my Thief, I hit a Mesmer for the following:

Steal 1408
Backstab 4647 (Critical Hit)
Lightning Strike 1098
Fire Strike 1307

I then used Shadow Refuge to restealth. At this point, I ate my Plasma and dealt the following damage:

Backstab 5017 (Critical Hit)
Shadow Shot 3197 (Critical Hit)
Heartseeker 4668 (Critical Hit)

That’s a total of 21,342 damage within the space of around 7 seconds. I’d consider myself a very bad Thief but a very good Mesmer. Unless I can stealth during the first spike, heal and run away, I’m at an immediate disadvantage because I’ve already been forced to use a Stealth and my heal. All it then becomes a case of is waiting for the Thief to re-appear. Sadly, there’s no skill in finding or spotting a Thief because there’s no skills on offer to make them visible.

I play WvW 99% but I’ve started to play more spvp and this is so helpful, I can kill stuff but I’m so lost on the rotations and tactics in general. Thanks a lot.

Here is the final vid I wanted to throw in for now. In this match three of my team had plans of their own (which is fine) and while I capped home we ended up in a 1, 1, 3 split. i Went home, our poor unaware engie went to mid, and the other three hit far. We won the sides and there was no incoming attack on home. I stopped to take stock of where the enemy would decide to move as I was the only thing standing between far, mid, and our home. No implicit attack came for home but I chose a lone target anyway who looked like he might try if given the chance. After that my role quickly turned into a very pointed roaming damage dealer, moving between points, singling out targets, and dropping them to down. After that I’d leave the downed where and when I could for my point holders to finish while I sought the next target. It turned out to be a very lucrative effort. The rate of turn around between arriving and leaving a point is key in this role.

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSw-_v1dqDA&feature=youtu.be

jenzie.4083:

I play WvW 99% but I’ve started to play more spvp and this is so helpful, I can kill stuff but I’m so lost on the rotations and tactics in general. Thanks a lot.

Really glad it could be of help. I’m actually very surprised by the positive feedback that’s appeared in this thread. When creating it I wavered a bit on posting it up as I thought it might be a bit redundant, these things being so new to me but likely around for so long.

Just like to echo what Ross is saying. imo the mesmer is at our best in a match acting like a roaming dps, same role a good thief fills. We have the advantage over thief because we can do ranged DPS into a fight. With the meta full of cele. bunker splash damage build the ability to kill at range and not get hit is huge. The thief has higher dps and better mobility which makes them better at dcaping and stealing beasts or nija lord.

The sad part is no matter how good a mesmer is we can’t carry a whole team on our own where a really good bunker Engi/Guard/Warrior can simply win a match by locking down mid the whole time by themselves.

Mogar.9216:

Just like to echo what Ross is saying. imo the mesmer is at our best in a match acting like a roaming dps, same role a good thief fills. We have the advantage over thief because we can do ranged DPS into a fight. With the meta full of cele. bunker splash damage build the ability to kill at range and not get hit is huge. The thief has higher dps and better mobility which makes them better at dcaping and stealing beasts or nija lord.

The sad part is no matter how good a mesmer is we can’t carry a whole team on our own where a really good bunker Engi/Guard/Warrior can simply win a match by locking down mid the whole time by themselves.

Well that’s kind of true except no single engi/guard/war can do that by themselves in the team environment. Thus why the roaming DPS exists, so they can roll in like thunder and (amidst the battle of bunkers) nuke the enemy bunkers off the face of existence.