(edited by samski.5194)
[Guide] Samski's Condition Tank Mesmer
Uhm, nice vid for people who are clueless, but the rest of us who know how to play Mesmer would rather just see you list your traits. I skimmed around thru your 13 min long “intro and traits video” and still have no idea your traits and I’m sorry but I’m not going to sit around and listen to the whole 13 minutes of you talking to try and figure them out.
Why in the world would you take confusion on blind instead of illusionary persona?
I actually used SF as well pre TP buff; didn’t see too many others running 0-20-20-0-30 for confi. Fun vs wvw masses but will get torn apart by a phant mes, PVT tank mes, exceptional PD thief etc. Eg. Melandru runes + -40 condi dur = GG.
The Patryns [TP]
Uhm, nice vid for people who are clueless, but the rest of us who know how to play Mesmer would rather just see you list your traits. I skimmed around thru your 13 min long “intro and traits video” and still have no idea your traits and I’m sorry but I’m not going to sit around and listen to the whole 13 minutes of you talking to try and figure them out.
It’s 7:36 on the first video.
Not being funny, but it literally took about 10 seconds of skimming through the video to see them.
Uhm, nice vid for people who are clueless, but the rest of us who know how to play Mesmer would rather just see you list your traits. I skimmed around thru your 13 min long “intro and traits video” and still have no idea your traits and I’m sorry but I’m not going to sit around and listen to the whole 13 minutes of you talking to try and figure them out.
It’s 7:36 on the first video.
Not being funny, but it literally took about 10 seconds of skimming through the video to see them.
Doesn’t really matter. It’s bad form to not have a link to the build, and have it 100% in video format. It’s inconvenient at best, and extremely annoying at worst if you are trying to look at the build on a mobile device or something similar.
Thanks for your feedback everyone Due to feedback I will add a trait link to the first post.
Uhm, nice vid for people who are clueless, but the rest of us who know how to play Mesmer would rather just see you list your traits.
I decided to try and do this from the ground up so people who have never played Mesmer before are able to gain as much information in one places as they can. Sneaky Bear allready covered the rest of your post.
Why in the world would you take confusion on blind instead of illusionary persona?
Because even though Shatters are used in the build it focuses around having Chaos Armor up as much as possible and the Confusion on Blind trait gives it a 2/3 chance to apply a Confusion application even with the suspected bug it would seem. In addition the build rewards you for having your illusions up by awarding 9% damage reduction and additional health from your heal over shattering them.
In my opinion more confusion applications are given to all enemies through out the fight from Chaos Armor being up so much and the trait than would be by being able to add an extra one or two applications from Illusionary Persona.
I actually used SF as well pre TP buff; didn’t see too many others running 0-20-20-0-30 for confi. Fun vs wvw masses but will get torn apart by a phant mes, PVT tank mes, exceptional PD thief etc. Eg. Melandru runes + -40 condi dur = GG.
Unfortunately this is partly accurate but I don’t think there are any builds that are effective against everything. Good Shattercat players and PD Theifs can be a challenge but I don’t recall having too much trouble with PVT Mesmers but that may just be the people I have fought.
Even with the +33% condition duration trait and the condition duration food the build does take a hit if the player stacks – condition duration but thankfully not many players seem to
It’s 7:36 on the first video.
Not being funny, but it literally took about 10 seconds of skimming through the video to see them.
+1ed for logical thinking
Doesn’t really matter. It’s bad form to not have a link to the build, and have it 100% in video format. It’s inconvenient at best, and extremely annoying at worst if you are trying to look at the build on a mobile device or something similar.
Could you please clarify how it is inconvenient and annoying to watch youtube videos on mobile devices ? To my knowledge none of my videos are restricted on mobile devices so all should be viewable. I have watched many video’s on my devices with no trouble at all.
I have honestly lost count of the number of times I have clicked a build link and it hasnt displayed properly with my mobile devices, There is one build calculator website that just doesnt load traits at all on iOS for some reason.
I noticed pvt mesmer mentioned- is there an accepted cookie cutter build?
I noticed pvt mesmer mentioned- is there an accepted cookie cutter build?
I think The Immortal Mesmer is PVT there’s a thread on the board.
Couple other thoughts:
- I like that you run I-Defense in Chaos. Not enough people run this trait IMO. It pairs really well with Deceptive Evasion.
- 0/20/20/0/30 – Going glamour blind/confusion on blind with 2 fields is better for small team play IMO, for solo roaming I’d take Elasticity/Ilusionary Persona in Illusions and either Blade Training if you’re going to use S/F or Far-Reaching Manipulations for Sc/T; swap glamour fields out for Decoy/Blink. You can confi bomb w/ sword the same way you shatter bomb, just slightly delay BF until you start getting hit – deadly against WvW bads/unaware players.
- As I said, the build is a lot of fun for wvw. confusion is the single best ability in the game vs. PvDoor sheep. you’ll just run into a few hard counters as with any other but, but “shattercat” in full zerker is not one of them. between confi/condi blds, phants, pvt etc it’s the weakest 1v1 mesmer bld vs. other mesmers.
The Patryns [TP]
The Chaos Armour was a change in late beta or early live, to make Chaos Armour more reliable as a defensive skill.
Could you please clarify how it is inconvenient and annoying to watch youtube videos on mobile devices ? To my knowledge none of my videos are restricted on mobile devices so all should be viewable. I have watched many video’s on my devices with no trouble at all.
I have honestly lost count of the number of times I have clicked a build link and it hasnt displayed properly with my mobile devices, There is one build calculator website that just doesnt load traits at all on iOS for some reason.
Limited bandwidth in certain locations and limited data on many plans makes vids inconvenient for many mobile users.
Guildhead works fine on all mobile devices afaik. The only one I have problems with is http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ sometimes. Don’t use that and you are fine.
Dissentient [DIS] ~Tarnished Coast
(edited by Gaiawolf.8261)
Yeah, there’s a few things. Limited bandwidth and whatnot is 1 problem. Another is that you don’t always have the ability to actually listen to the video, for one reason or another. Having it in video form is all well and good, but you need to include a normal build link. If someone wants to check up on your build real fast, they don’t want to slog through a video, they want to see a nice and simple build page. The build page has a far higher information density than your video can contain, you can think of it that way in terms of convenience.
And as you mentioned, my build (in the signature) is the only sort of “cookie cutter” Mesmer pvt tank build that exists right now.
Also, theres people like ne who are currently at work, pretending to be.. er.. working. I cant open your vid cuz I cant play sound and my phone is kinda crappy. I also wouldnt be ablebto print your build/guide n check it out for some train reading.
Learn 2 Play Mesmer Here! || Lookit! Gots me a youtube!
Mesmer Personality Quiz! Exclamation Points!
Also, theres people like me who are currently at work, pretending to be.. er.. working.
This was my problem also :O
I appreciate everyone’s sentiments toward him posting a link to the build aside from the video, but the reasoning is apparently that he’s not covering every possible contingency for your viewing convenience. And, I’m sorry —- if you can’t watch it at work, or only have a mobile at the moment, can you not wait to get home to view it? While I understand the convenience of a linked website build, are we really at the point in society that someone is lambasted for not having immediate, convenient information for you to process? That you might actually have to make a small effort to obtain information you’re interested in?
I don’t mean to hijack his thread any further, as his fighting video shows how impressive the build can be, but I just feel the discussion on where his traits are located is a bit obnoxious.
Thanks for the further feedback guys, I am planning on starting a texted based version too but due to going away with work for a few weeks it maybe the end of the month before I manage to get it online.
This is very similar to the build I’m using. I went for 30 points in Chaos-tree and took Prismatic Understanding for better stealth abilities and even more defensive boons. Of course I use stealth utility spells, Decoy and Mass Invisibility.
In your case I’m wondering about your 30 points choice in the Illusions tree. Why on earth do you take the confusion-on-blind trait without having the blind-on-glamour trait? This makes no sense at all. You take them both or none! Otherwise Illusionary Persona is much better, especially since you are using a melee weapon (1h sword).
In your case I’m wondering about your 30 points choice in the Illusions tree. Why on earth do you take the confusion-on-blind trait without having the blind-on-glamour trait? This makes no sense at all. You take them both or none! Otherwise Illusionary Persona is much better, especially since you are using a melee weapon (1h sword).
I Disagree, theres method on my madness The Blind on glamour is only one of our hand full of options to apply Blind.
Chaos Armor has a passive 1/3 chance to add a confusion stack to your enemies who are attacking you. The confusion on blind trait increases this to 2/3 chance to add Confusions stacks and the ones added from the trait actually last longer than the standard passive ones enabling you to stack mid to high Confusion stacks through out combat.
With THIS spell rotation you are able to keep Chaos Armor up for around 1:30-1:40 with out losing it for any long period of time so for 1:30-1:40 you have a 2/3 chance to apply confusion stacks to all enemy players attacking you.
And with Illusonary Persona you can apply one extra confusion every time you shatter, or two with the F2 shatter. Alongside with many other benefits you get from this trait.
But if you plan on keeping chaos armor up, mostly with ethereal combo fields, you should drop Illusionary Elasticity and get the blind-on-glamour trait instead. You’re putting down the glamour fields anyway. Together with confusion-on-blind the extra confusion is better than the extra bounce from staff auto attack.
As I said: You take them both or none!
And with Illusonary Persona you can apply one extra confusion every time you shatter, or two with the F2 shatter. Alongside with many other benefits you get from this trait.
But if you plan on keeping chaos armor up, mostly with ethereal combo fields, you should drop Illusionary Elasticity and get the blind-on-glamour trait instead. You’re putting down the glamour fields anyway. Together with confusion-on-blind the extra confusion is better than the extra bounce from staff auto attack.
As I said: You take them both or none!
Check my reply to Shakezoola regarding Illusionary Persona, in my oppinion for this spec confusion on blind is better than Illusionary Persona due to the reasons stated.
As I said regarding your both or none comment, I Disagree. I see no reason to drop Illusionary Elasticity for Blind on Glamour, Yes I would get two extra blinds and two extra confusion stacks once every ~40 seconds but I much rather have Winds of Chaos bounce, not only to apply additional Burns and Bleeds and get me additional Superior Sigil of Earth Procs, but also for its Fury and Might stacks on myself further increasing the base damage of Winds of Chaos.
The tooltip says Winds of Chaos has a cast time of 3/4 of a second so in 40 seconds it has the potential to cast ~53 times. That’s 52 additional bounces from Illusionary Elasticity, if we presume it has an even spread for its boons and conditions that’s ~17 stacks of Bleed and ~17 seconds of Burn from Winds of Chaos its self, in addition to its white damage and Sigil of Earth Procs, in addition to this it gives ~26 chances to apply Might or Fury to yourself or Allies. I just don’t see how that even compares to 2 Blinds and 2 Confusion stacks. In addition to this there is also the potential that Anet will fix the suspected bug with staff clones and Illusionary Elasticity giving your staff clones the additional bounce also.
I much rather have Winds of Chaos bounce, not only to apply additional Burns and Bleeds and get me additional Superior Sigil of Earth Procs, but also for its Fury and Might stacks on myself further increasing the base damage of Winds of Chaos.
Uhm, Illusionary Elasticity does not give you:
- more might stacks
- more fury
- more sigil of earth procs (but this doesn’t even matter, since you’ll hit the internal cooldown anyway)
Another issue with Illusionary Elasticity is the reduced range of the bounces. I play with staff and that trait too, but I’d say half of the time there is no bounce because the distance between me and my victim is too high. If you are kiting and/or your enemy is kiting, that’s a big issue. And against cowards running away from you, the staff attack will never bounce.
Thus, Illusionary Elasticity sounds great in theory, is great in PvE, but isn’t that great in real PvP situations.
If it worked on our staff clones … ohhhhh yeah, it would be no doubt a very, very powerful trait. Probably overpowered.
The mathematical calculations you made in your posting are valid for a PvE situation, PvP has different rules – not because of the game mechanics, but because your enemy has a brain. You don’t kill ppl with a confusion here and there, you kill them by suddenly overload them with a huge stack of confusion, so they go down before they realize what’s going on.
My bad regarding the Might stacks and Fury, over look on my part, to my knowledge though it can give you Sigil of Earth procs and ensure you are always on the internal cooldown. Due to the additional damage potential from the Bleeds and Burns I still maintain it is a better Trait for this build then the Blind on Confusion one.
With this build the idea is you play it so your enemy are able to attack you and keep getting confusion stacked on them so you usually are within the range of the rebound. Due to the fact of having chaos armor up so much the enemy arnt given much time where they don’t have confusion stacks on them so it is more of a gradual wear down against good opponents not a overload with lots of stacks at once.
So I maintain that the Bleed and Burn calculations are still accurate for PvP. If you watch the fights video there is a clip where a player dies due to damage from confusion, illusionary elasticity and the odd dodged clone that doesnt attack what it is meant to. It is supprising how much that happens in WvW too and Illusionary Elasticity helps with it, I know they are bad players to allow this to happen but WvW is full of bad players.
(edited by samski.5194)
Added the 6v1 underwater combat video to the OP to show how overpowered staff based mesmers are with the games current underwater combat system.
so you went with confusion on blind, but not blind on glamour?
http://intothemists.com/
so you went with confusion on blind, but not blind on glamour?
Yes, I have explained the reasoning behind it a few times in the thread so far but basically its to increase your chance of getting blind stacks from chaos armor from 1/3 upto 2/3.
liked your wvw video showing your build.. can’t wait for your next one
liked your wvw video showing your build.. can’t wait for your next one
Cheers mate, got the footage for a medium scale WvW video of one of our 5 man parties going up against groups at least double our size.
Also working on a 1vx video but that will take a while got a few 1v3, 1v4 and 1v5 clips with one 1v6.
Got projects going with soloing fully upgraded supply camps and a keep too so watch this space
Just did a couple of fights on the Mists sparring NPCs with your build, especially since I wanted to test the Confusion on Blind trait myself.
I might have been lucky and these weren’t like 1000 fights (more like 10-15), but boy did that Confusion proc from Chaos Armor. It’s actually insane, because the Thief NPC gave herself 8 (!) stacks Confusion once from an Unload and 1-2 normal attacks, no shatters from me, no active blinds, just Chaos Armor. I have a bad feeling this isn’t gonna stay, because anyone with a multihit attack cannot win against your build (it’s likely a bug anyway, since there are no blinds going on from Chaos Armor, as mentioned by you already)
(edited by Xolo.3580)
I’m away from my computer due to work right now so have been unable to check but a friend who plays my spec has said they think something changed in the last patch as they are seeing higher confusion stacks now.
I’m glad people are starting to check the spec out and see how strong it truly is. If they have fixed the bug with Chaos armour I can’t wait to check out how strong the build is in 1vx!
hi what upgrade components do you use in your jewelry, and are your weapons rabid?
That Chaos Armor →blind→confusion mechanic is intriguing. It seems like such a waste to drop Illusionary Persona though. I’d be tempted to run V, IX, XI -- dropping elasticity for better shatters and more confusion.
Build looks good- I will have to try it out.
Just thinking, would the scepter/torch be a better combo for stacking confusion, or perhaps sword/torch? I guess the leap from sword into a combo field gives more uptime on chaos armor etc (Sorry, unable to view the video at the moment, so cannot see your full reasons for sword/focus)
Also, would this build work for PVE? Perhaps swapping the odd trait and ability for different situations. I currently use a phantasm build, which is great, but I feel its not massively effective in WvW.
I am not great at money making on here so unable to keep flicking between specs and gear for PVE/WvW.
Cheers.
Interesting setup.
I’ve since changed my sPvP setup to 0/0/20/20/30 for my glamour build, and still use 20/0/0/20/30 for WvW/PvE however I don’t run with the standard Rabid armor that everyone else seems to use.
I like unique builds though. My only gripe with yours is that you don’t have Phantasmal Fury and instead have that crappy Desperate Decoy trait. That trait fails far too often in my experience. PF would give your Warden some bleed damage, allow you to use him both for defense and offense (he stacks bleeds faster than iDuelist iirc) and dropping him in the middle of a zerg would do wonders. It’s just a better option imo since I’m assuming you have a decent amount of crit chance.
@alexperris
Sceptor/Torch is what I use to stack confusion with my build, especially since Confusing Images got buffed. I used Torch with Sword in sPvP though and it’s honestly more defensive than offensive. You use 2 for obvious uses, use iLeap to gain Chaos Armor from your Combo Fields to maintain it as long as possible and can use Torch 4 for the same purpose or use it defensively to heal or try and escape. The iMage has a really slow attack speed but his confusion stacks do hurt a little bit (or a lot if you stack with him). But I would only use this combo if you need defense, not offense. Scepter is much better at stacking confusion now and you can still use Torch 4 to gain Chaos Armor.
Thanks for the reply. I will probably try both sets of weapons out and see how I get on.
Still looking for opinions on this build for general PVE. I would probably stick with sword and focus for this and swap to Phantasmal Fury as suggested above.
Good catch on the protection bug!
hi what upgrade components do you use in your jewelry, and are your weapons rabid?
Hi, I use a gem with rabid stats, cant fine and exceptional yet that has them.
Build looks good- I will have to try it out.
Just thinking, would the scepter/torch be a better combo for stacking confusion, or perhaps sword/torch? I guess the leap from sword into a combo field gives more uptime on chaos armor etc (Sorry, unable to view the video at the moment, so cannot see your full reasons for sword/focus)
Also, would this build work for PVE? Perhaps swapping the odd trait and ability for different situations. I currently use a phantasm build, which is great, but I feel its not massively effective in WvW.
I am not great at money making on here so unable to keep flicking between specs and gear for PVE/WvW.
Cheers.
Hi, I dont do much PvE so cant really give advice on that side of the game. With staff alone you can keep chaos armour up for over 1:30 in a row. I usually play with staff exclusively unless I need the utility of my weapon swap such as temporal curtain to pull theifs out of shadow refuge or the leap on sword to try and catch runners, you will see what I mean if you get a chance to watch the fighting video linked in the first post
Interesting setup.
I’ve since changed my sPvP setup to 0/0/20/20/30 for my glamour build, and still use 20/0/0/20/30 for WvW/PvE however I don’t run with the standard Rabid armor that everyone else seems to use.
I like unique builds though. My only gripe with yours is that you don’t have Phantasmal Fury and instead have that crappy Desperate Decoy trait. That trait fails far too often in my experience. PF would give your Warden some bleed damage, allow you to use him both for defense and offense (he stacks bleeds faster than iDuelist iirc) and dropping him in the middle of a zerg would do wonders. It’s just a better option imo since I’m assuming you have a decent amount of crit chance.
@alexperris
Sceptor/Torch is what I use to stack confusion with my build, especially since Confusing Images got buffed. I used Torch with Sword in sPvP though and it’s honestly more defensive than offensive. You use 2 for obvious uses, use iLeap to gain Chaos Armor from your Combo Fields to maintain it as long as possible and can use Torch 4 for the same purpose or use it defensively to heal or try and escape. The iMage has a really slow attack speed but his confusion stacks do hurt a little bit (or a lot if you stack with him). But I would only use this combo if you need defense, not offense. Scepter is much better at stacking confusion now and you can still use Torch 4 to gain Chaos Armor.
The stealth on 25% trait has saved me a fair few times tbh, I rarly use the Warden due to him dieing too quickly in zergs and the fact you can simply move away from him. the extra 20% crit might help a little on the warlock but the Clones can out damage him with this spec anyway so only use him if required to keep 3 clones up.
This looks like something due for a nerf. The 66% to apply confusion on being hit is absolutely ridiculous. The idea behind the build is that enemies are forced to kill themselves just from playing the game considering chaos armor can be kept up for an extremely long time and cannot be stripped. Very nice build however and it looks like tons of fun. I will definitely be trying it out.
How does this build work in big zergy battles? Opposed to a full glamour build?
This looks like something due for a nerf. The 66% to apply confusion on being hit is absolutely ridiculous. The idea behind the build is that enemies are forced to kill themselves just from playing the game considering chaos armor can be kept up for an extremely long time and cannot be stripped. Very nice build however and it looks like tons of fun. I will definitely be trying it out.
100% agree mate, it does need balancing, players either hit you and kill themself from confusion or they dont hit you and die from your burns and bleeds.
How does this build work in big zergy battles? Opposed to a full glamour build?
Glamour is better for zergs, this build needs clones and for players to focus you, your clones die too quick in zergs and you wont get focused much.
Here is a few clips of the build in 5 man play. Anything bigger and Glamour is better.
Samski,
do you think that a hybrid between your build and Osicat’s cat mist would be viable?
Something like 0-20(IV-X)-20(III-X)-0-30(V-IX-XI). Rabid and errr not sure about the runes.
Edit, instead of (V) I meant (VI) in illusion
I just had a chance to check out the Mist vid by osci, I couldent find a build link for it but is it a power based build ?
Mist is power based… it’s a shatter build with high mobility
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
Samski, here you have the link to Osci’s Mist:
I did some tests, and… meh.
I’ve been running this build for the past couple of weeks and its excellent, enjoyable to play and great for WvW roaming. I tried it with Centaur Runes, you mentioned switching to them in one of the videos and they are pretty useful it makes running away from the Baruch “small” camp capping groups much easier.
However, at the moment I’m trying Melandru plus the -40% condition duration food, and so for its rather nice, it reduces our vulnerability to conditions hugely, great for shrugging off slows when escaping and helps make the tanky part of the build a little more tanky.
Thanks for the build and the videos are very informative, especially for any newer Mesmers, the snippy comments in the first few posts are totally uncalled for.
Sorry for the delay in replying guys I have been busy with work
Mist is power based… it’s a shatter build with high mobility
Samski, here you have the link to Osci’s Mist:
I did some tests, and… meh.
I have had a chance to check the build out and doubt a hybrid would work very well due to the builds being designed around completly different things. Both are very strong
I’ve been running this build for the past couple of weeks and its excellent, enjoyable to play and great for WvW roaming. I tried it with Centaur Runes, you mentioned switching to them in one of the videos and they are pretty useful it makes running away from the Baruch “small” camp capping groups much easier.
However, at the moment I’m trying Melandru plus the -40% condition duration food, and so for its rather nice, it reduces our vulnerability to conditions hugely, great for shrugging off slows when escaping and helps make the tanky part of the build a little more tanky.
Thanks for the build and the videos are very informative, especially for any newer Mesmers, the snippy comments in the first few posts are totally uncalled for.
Thanks for the feedback glad your enjoying the build I have never actually tried the Melandru and -40% condi food! That does sound good, it will help shred perma stealth pistol theifs too!
I think the people in the first few posts on the thread were overlooking the builds potential as noone had pointed it out before or tried it to my knowledge but more and more people are trying it and loving it
I’d like to Echo Lord Jim’s comments. I finally managed to get my Rabid set finished off, the only annoying part of this build, and took it WvW. Must say I’ve never had so much fun in WvW as with this build!
Went up 5 ranks in one night and I’m a real amateur at WvW. Solo roaming was able to win a few 2 v1, 3 v1 and even managed to hold out for 5 mins against a 5 v 1. I never lost a single 1 v1 all night. Not something I’ve managed to do on my other classes/builds. When my guardian friend came on and we went duo the boons were insane. We even won a 6 v 2, which for someone inexpeienced at the game mode was pretty suprising! I’d highly recommend this build for less pro mesmer players like myself who have trouble setting up huge shatters in pvp, it’s easy to use and very effective.
This build has great synergy and the support from all the fields, winds of chaos bounces and distracting clones makes it fantastic for small roaming teams.
I used undead runes as im pretty poor, but they seem to do the job well. I’m not all that interested in extra swiftness as I tend to fight till I die anyway, figured it’s better to learn that way for now. I also tried switching sword for scepter with relative success. The block is handy and the channeled confusion stacking, passive confusions stacking from #1 and the clones really helped keep the pressure on when you aren’t being focused. Good for supporting when in a small group.
Thanks for posting this! I hope more people try it out and the build gets the recognition I think it deserves.
(edited by Rhaps.8540)
@Rhaps – Glad your enjoying the spec I have swapped sword out for scepter now to add more burst to the build but maintain its survivability as I am slowly coming to terms with the fact that runners will always be a challenge to catch with this build. I’m also testing Mass Invis out instead of Time Warp right now.
Misc – Added the burst damage video to the OP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y0-D_bay64
Think you probably need to stop posting vids or you’ll get Chaos Armour and/or our core Glamour build traits nerfed. Scpeter just makes the confusion even more ridiculous and with torch as another potential off hand (I use it in arranged 1v1s when not against a Thief) you’ve got even more blind potential, a nice ~2k burn and another way to set up confusing images.
Also props on finding some Baruch players roaming, worth writing home about.