Guild Wars 2

Osicat.4139:

@Pyroatheist, Hi. Im wery impressed how you combined the traits and overall build to synergice with eachother. Its obious you can follow a ability and how it get affected or affect al other parts of te build in a posetive way. I alos like the fact you combine passive survival (gear, boons) with acctive survival (staff, sword, 2 stealths and shatters).

Two questions, have you tested to add Vigorous Revalation in inspiration for more energy?

How do the spec work vs boon stackers, do it become 2 healing paladins in a end of days wow duel?

Also about the Link, if you want to get the build link to work for clickers get rid of the need to explain for somone every day how to compy / pastle the build you can use:

http://tinyurl.com/

This recreate a working and shorter link that work on A-nets forum. Its Mark Katzbach A-net dev who mentioned this about build links.

/Cheers Osicat

Hi Osi, good to see you dropping by at last. Thanks for the tip to using tinyurl. I generally stay away from that because a lot of forums don’t allow link shorteners like it.

With my build vs a boom stacking build, my build will win. If it is a guardian, they still probably will have a greatsword, and that means I can burst them down in an amusing fashion. Also, if the boons get out of hand, I just drop three sword clones and go to work. If they really are that boom focused, I have nothing to fear from their offense, and 15 seconds of auto attacking with 3 clones will strip far more boons than any class can apply.

As for the vigor on shatters, it would be nice, but has no place in the build. I would be forced to drop either the focus trait or the condie removal on healing trait. Focus is essential, and this build really needs strong condie removal because I tank damage to do damage.

Also, I have a new video up! This video focuses on fighting against multiple opponents. It is one of at least 2 videos that I’ll produce with this focus, because this type of fight takes so long, I can’t fit too many fights into the same video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UWl92k63C9k

Fun watching different builds and play styles! I will probably try this at some point since I have half the gear for it that i use already lol. Would only need the armor and runes and to remember how to play without deceptive evasion haha

After looking closely at the build and comparing it with other popular “shatter tank” builds (0/20/20/0/30: Shattercat, 7Mirror, etc.), it seems like the fundamental difference is that you’re giving up the following key attributes of a shatter tank build by moving 20 points from the Dueling row into the Inspiration row. (0/0/20/20/30)

Giving up:

1. The ability to frequently generate extra clones for shatters by dodging
2. The ability to dodge more often
3. Roughly 10% less crit chance, making it harder to hit the magic 40% crit chance
4. 20% less crit damage, making your shatter bursts weaker.
5. A 3rd way to stealth (if you’re comparing against a 7Mirror Sword/Torch shatter tank).

Gaining:

1. Phantasms each have retaliation damage. (Not clones)
2. Phantasms each proc regen on nearby allies (doesn’t help you as much when you’re in staff mode) (Doesn’t work on clones).
3. An extra “automatic” condition cleanse as often as every 10 seconds depending on how close you can stay to your own phantasms. Possibly as long as every 20 seconds if you can’t stay close to your phantasms. (Clones won’t cleanse you.)
4. An extra 14 seconds of retaliation every 20 seconds from Sword 3 or Staff 2 through the Focus 4 Temporal Curtain. (Note that other shatter tank builds already have access to the X seconds of retaliation from using the F2 Shatter.)
5. Temporal curtain can reflect projectiles
6. Roughly 2K more health.
7. Larger heals.

My main concern here is how many of the “what you gain” benefits work only for your phantasms and not for your clones. My second concern is that in a shatter build of any sort, you are bursting your illusions very frequently, especially with the trait line that enables you to dodge more frequently and pump out clones to shatter with every dodge.

Not saying this is “bad” and I do intend to experiment with it, but on paper it seems like the survivability is roughly the same as for any of the other shatter tank builds (more health versus more decoys and more frequent/more powerful shatter burst). Sometimes the best defense is a strong damage burst. On the other hand, squeezing out an extra 200 vitality and bigger heals is certainly helpful in WvW.

@shaktiboi

Well, your analysis is flawed on a bit of a basic level. It is not a bad analysis, you just make a few basic assumptions that put it on a completely wrong track. Ill go through it and try to answer as many of your questions as I can.

Firstly, you are making the assumption that this is a shatter build. It is not. I use shatters as a utility skill, as opposed to a basic component of my build. The only other use for my shatters is just a quick burst to finish someone off. I am not trying to do my main damage from shatters.

With this in mind, lets take a look at the rest of your analysis.

Giving up:
1. Since this build is not a shatter based build, the clone/phantasm generation from my utilities and weapon skills is enough for the occasional shatter, and a quick burst. Deceptive evsaion is nice, but not at all necessary in this build.
2. This is definitely a loss, no argument here.
3. This build is not based on crits, in any way, shape, or form. My crit chance is usually 4% unless I get fury from my staff autos.
4. See number 3.
5. Not an issue. My damage relies on getting hit, stealths are reserved for emergency defense.

Gaining:
1. Phants have retal, and I almost always have 2 phants up at all times.
2. Phants proc aoe regen, and with smart play, you EASILY have 100% regen uptime due to this trait.
3. Due to the 100% regen uptime, you always have the condition cleanse every 10 seconds, because that food procs every time you gain health, not every time regen is reapplied. You also get another condition cleanse every time you use your main heal skill from inspiration IV.
4. The extra retaliation is vital to this build, as it revolves around retaliation damage for my main damage source.
5. Temporal curtain AND the wardens reflect projectiles. This is huge and can not be emphasized enough.
6. My build uses different gear. 2k more hp is gained from traits, but when you consider all of my gear and food, I usually run with between 8k-10k more hp than the other builds.
7. My heals actually aren’t particularly larger. I don’t have much healing power in the build, other than the token 200 from inspiration.

The what I lose is directly pointed at what this build does not use, and what I gain is everything my build revolves around. This is a tank build, a build that does damage by doing damage. If someone attacks me, they kill themselves, and I facilitate that by having retaliation, bursting confusion for the last bit of damage, and staying alive with regeneration and ether feast. The difference in survivability between this build and other tanky builds is massive, between condition removal, more healing, and massive damage mitigation from multiple sources that other builds simply don’t have.

I appreciate the criticism though, thinking critically about builds like this is the only way we can improve them.

New Video up focusing on fighting multiple people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWl92k63C9k

@ PyroAthiest: Okay, those are all good answers to my points, but it begs a new, different question. Why go all the way to 30 in Illusions for the key trait that shatter builds are built around? Why not go to 30 in either of your other two rows? Or 5 or 10 in some other row entirely? Seems like counting yourself as a shatter is somewhat wasted if you’re not using shattering and not trying to burst.

Granted, I know it let’s you proc emergency dazes with Shatter F4 and so on even if you don’t have any illusions out, etc. But still…

At a glance I would assume he goes the extra 10 points really because he wants the extra 5 for Shattered Strength since his damage output is a little low with this build and the stacks of Might would yield both harder hitting Retaliation and Confusion. That said, the extra 5 points after that seems about the same as say 5 in Inspiration for extra Phantasm damage (though he’s not using the highest damage phantasms anyhow with one being on a condition of them staying in the spot and getting hit by Warden and Warlocks damage being less strong from not critting). I would say it’s probably to taste in his case, but given that he’s more than tanky enough it would seem likely that the extra burst he gets from those last 10 points in Illusions is exactly what he needs to round the build out. It gives him much harder hitting Mind Wracks than would be possible without it, and more utility than the other two trees would give as well. That said, it’s all with his full P/T/V gear, if some of that were crit or some other stat he might very well be able to lose the burst there given it’s gained somewhere else.

Don’t forget that the last points can be used as “last defence” because of f4 Other than that Dleofakitten told it pretty much all….

b2t:
I have run this build with precison/toughness/condition damage, as i just don’t have the karma or the dungeon-tokens to buy me the normal ones….
It’s amazing how easy i can take thiefs and wariors in wvw now. Even d/d eles most likey flee or sit it out till one raid comes and tries to finish the other one off.

I’m gonna change my gear to match yours pyroatheist but it will take me some time. But even without the proper gear i’m getting results. Most likely because noone would expect a mesmer too be this tanky

Thanks for sharing it with us. Keep up the work and please share it with us
It’s really fun to play like this in wvw.

Been playing it in sPvP tonight and I like it. As Macha said, people just don’t expect a Mesmer to be this tanky. Had a blast, and gives old farts like me a lil’ more reaction time.

Thanks!

Hi all, thanks for the views. I’ll try to answer a few questions for you here.

@shaktiboi: This was partially answered by Delofakitten and Macha, but I’ll elaborate a bit. I go 30 into shatters for illusionary persona of course. This allows me to have emergency dazes of course, but more importantly on-demand distortion. This allows me to get a lot of stomps that I would otherwise miss (very important in a 1vMany situation). Shattered strength is a nice bonus that comes along with that, and it does make a difference during some bursts. Lastly, 30 points into illusions lowers my shatter cooldowns. Since a lot of my retaliation is based on cry of frustration, I want this shatter to have as low a cooldown as possible, and the more shatters of distortion I can get, the more stomps I can land with surety.

Another reason is that there are no particularly desireable traits in the other traitlines. The 25 and 30 traits from chaos are not great in this build. The 25 from inspiration is also not very good in the build. I have considered going to 30 in inspiration because of the shatter healing or shatter condition removal, but it would make my traits have a bit of an identity crisis, as taking those traits would fully identify it as a shatter build, based strongly on shatters for healing or condie removal, but at the same time having removed points from illusions, be less effective as a shatter build.

@Macha: I’m glad you find it effective. It is always quite fun to have a warrior do a hasted bullsrush→HB→whirlwind into 2 phants and a defender, and come out at 10% hp without you having pressed a button.

@Windwalker: It is a very fun build to mess around with in sPvP. People don’t expect this sort of thing from a mesmer at all, and depending on how they play, you can hold off surprisingly large numbers of people at a point that you just turtle down on.

Macha.9160:

b2t:
I have run this build with precison/toughness/condition damage, as i just don’t have the karma or the dungeon-tokens to buy me the normal ones….
It’s amazing how easy i can take thiefs and wariors in wvw now. Even d/d eles most likey flee or sit it out till one raid comes and tries to finish the other one off.

I’m gonna change my gear to match yours pyroatheist but it will take me some time. But even without the proper gear i’m getting results. Most likely because noone would expect a mesmer too be this tanky

Im going to try it out this weekend with a gear set that’s optimized for 7Mirror’s shatter tank build (Sword/Torch), which is 4x Knights (pow/precision/tough) and 2x Soldiers (from cathedral Karma vendors) (pow/tough/vital), with all Knight’s weapons and 4x Ruby trinkets and 1x Karka Earring).

So: lots of Toughness compared to a typical ShatterCat, but of course not nearly as much vitality as PyroAthiest recommends. I’ll A-B the two builds over this same gear all weekend in dubs and report back Monday with how each performed with this setup.

The problem with my setup is, i don’t have the vitality do let me get hit more often for retalation (vergeltung in german^^, i think i wrote it wrong… but hope you will understand what i mean ) So i have to shatter more often, which exposes me more. Because of that i (and likely you too) will die more often… So don’t let yourself get discouraged I hope you will have the same fun as i have with this build

@Pyroatheist
Yeah thats funny. Even more fun to watch with a “stealth and go” thieve, as i call them…. thieves which are more invisible than visible in an actual fight… they arn’t frightning anymore^^ It’s reaaaally funny to see them hit themselfs, retreat and try it over and over again… ( because of my not optimal gear setup i can’t finish them off if they are a little bit skilled, which is quite sad but funny at the same time)
What i saw from my last tries, this build holds his ground against 1-3 enemys alone, if they aren’t coordinated enough… I remember a 1vs3 (warrior, ele, necro) at the start of the jp in one of the borderlands… i got all 3 down and 6 tokens… that was a blast… after this fight i knew i want to play this build more and more….

Pyroatheist.9031:

Another reason is that there are no particularly desireable traits in the other traitlines. The 25 and 30 traits from chaos are not great in this build. The 25 from inspiration is also not very good in the build. I have considered going to 30 in inspiration because of the shatter healing or shatter condition removal, but it would make my traits have a bit of an identity crisis, as taking those traits would fully identify it as a shatter build, based strongly on shatters for healing or condie removal, but at the same time having removed points from illusions, be less effective as a shatter

Hi pyro. What about removing 10 from chaos into inspiration. Would that be feasible or losing out on the extra protection and staff cool down is too much?

Hookerjack.4798:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Another reason is that there are no particularly desireable traits in the other traitlines. The 25 and 30 traits from chaos are not great in this build. The 25 from inspiration is also not very good in the build. I have considered going to 30 in inspiration because of the shatter healing or shatter condition removal, but it would make my traits have a bit of an identity crisis, as taking those traits would fully identify it as a shatter build, based strongly on shatters for healing or condie removal, but at the same time having removed points from illusions, be less effective as a shatter

Hi pyro. What about removing 10 from chaos into inspiration. Would that be feasible or losing out on the extra protection and staff cool down is too much?

I’ve actually been considering that change, and I’ll probably try it out pretty soon. It has potential, but the problem is that the staff has a massive amount of utility. The protection from the trait is minimal, ever since the nerf, but the staff is my only source of protection other than that trait. Activating chaos armor gives 5 seconds of protection, and that would increase in cooldown. Phase retreat through chaos storm gives chaos armor, and while that doesn’t give the 5 seconds like the skill does, being hit in chaos armor has a chance to give protection. Losing the cooldowns on staff would mean significantly less chaos armor from the storm and phase retreat, and chaos storm already has a cooldown that seems too long sometimes.

However, you’ll never improve if you don’t try and change, so I will test out this trait modification.

I really like this build.

I was thinking though, since I spend 99% of my time in dungeons, that I could tweak this towards a supportish tank build with the following changes:

0/0/20/30/20 rather than 0/0/20/20/30
Superior Rune of Altruism with Restorative Mantras and Mantra of Recovery as the heal.
Pros:
→ An additional +15% boon duration increase
→ Little bit more healing power, but healing power is really not necessary for Restorative Mantras due to the high base and terrible scaling (.2)
→ AoE support healing when necessary and due to how Mantra of Recovery works with the Superior Runes of Altruism, a 100% uptime on 3 stacks of might minimum and ~50% uptime on fury, mitigating the loss of Shattered Strength at least partially.
→ the additional +100 Vitality compensates for the Vitality lost on the runes already.
→ If necessary, Mantra of Pain becomes a spammable ~2.9k heal and Mantra of Resolve becomes a solid condition removal and another heal.

Cons
→ Loss of iPersona = less damage on shatters, less reliability of f4/f3 when you need an oh kitten button
→ Loss of toughness from runes.
→ Less damage off of F2
→ No Shattered Strength
→ Less Recharge Rate from Illusion Tree

Again, this is from a 100% PvE perspective for support in dungeons. I’ve already been running a heal/support build but this looks like a better base to use than what I’ve been doing. Overall I really like it, what do you think?

@Zileve: That looks like a really interesting build. It would suffer greatly from damage, but that’s no different from the original build of course. You would lose some toughness for sure, but you would actually gain some hp.

This build would have massive group utility. You would be the group healer, the group might stacker, the group fury provider, and could function as the group damage soak as well. If you took illusionary elasticity and sat around in staff, you could provide a lot of fury to people from the staff autos as well.

Overall, you wouldn’t lose a whole lot. This build wouldn’t need the high recharge rate for the retaliation stacking, and shattered strength would be more than compensated by the runes of altruism. This would be an amazing PvE support build.

There is one thing that should be mentioned. The runes of altruism have a 10 second internal cooldown of course. I can tell you from experience that without some sort of external timer, it will be very difficult to hit that 10 second recharge with the heal mantra. You could possibly use some sort of program that would do a little beep every 10 seconds to help you stay on time.

@Pyroatheist Thanks for the support!

I’ve already been using the Altruism runes, and either the cooldown is actually about ~13 seconds or it doesn’t let you reapply the might/fury as long as you still have the previous’ activations buffs since using it 11 seconds after usually doesn’t work, but using it .5 seconds after the 3 might stacks from the first one works basically every time.

Either way, since the Mantra of Recovery charges count as a heal and proc the rune, you still basically have 100% uptime on it with the right timing.

I’m still grabbing my PTV gear from AC, but I think this could work fairly well as dungeon support.

Forgot to mention that I chose to go with the extra 10 in Insp. for the heal on shatter to better offset condi damage, as in sPvP the condi clearing is a bit lacking with this build. I’m enjoying the build quite a bit, it’s not a killing machine build, but it certainly is very tanky and I still can hold my own pretty well. (getting better every day ;-) )

I’m going to try to tweak the gear a bit, but overall it’s quite fun and a breath of fresh air from the usual GC shatter builds.

Initial thoughts after playing with this all day yesterday in WvW.

So far, I’ve been liking 7Mirror’s Sword/Torch build, which is a slighly more tanky/stealth oriented shatter tank than the standard Shatter Cat.

So with that preamble:

Switching my 20 points in Dueling to Inspiration instead gives me a nice 19.7K HP, but drops my crit chance to 28%. No biggie, given the way this build relies on full-time retaliation (making up the crit losss via more partial reflect damage), right? Wellllll….

Given that 80% of most time in dubs is spent at zerg vs zerg front-lines, trying to push back the opposing zerg through attrition, my first impression is that losing the crit isn’t made up for by the gained full-time retaliation, for one simple reason. 80% of the time in a ZvZ faceoff, the target you are shooting at is NOT necessary shooting at you. In fact, most of the time not. So in a “damage race” to take down opposing bodies, higher crit = faster downs = fewer bodies = win for your side.

Next, while the Temporal Curtain > Illus Leap > Swap combo is indeed awesomesauce (much like the thief’s permastealth combo Black Powder > Heartseeker), I do find that it is “fiddly” to pull off. For one, it takes precious seconds to position yourself on the line, during which your opponent might have moved out of range of Illus Leap (which has an incredibly short range). If you could do an Illus Leap > Swap successfully with a distant target or no target, that would be great. But you can’t. Note that other combos such as eles use (RTL with no targets to gain distance in any direction you want), or such as thieves use (Black Powder + Heartseeker with no targets), require NO targets. But this combo does, and that target must be close enough to where you position the Temporal Curtain. And IMO that happens less than 50% of the time.

Worst of all, know that I know how this combo works, if I’m facing off against a mesmer and I see a temporal curtain get laid down, you can bet I’m just going to jink out of range of that curtain and deny them their 14 seconds of retaliation. It’s too easy to recognize and too easy to foil.

Now that all said, I do think it’s genius to combine this sword/focus combo with the trait that gives you 14-seconds of retaliation on a 3-illusion Cry of Frustration shatter. And it is very very nice when it works and you can keep both up back to back. And the situation where you can do that most reliably is PvE, lol. Not PvP. But in PvE? Mobs melt against you. It actually worked very nice in a Fractal run we did yesterday morning. But in PvP? Well….

… Where I’m at today is this: I really like Focus as my off-hand, and I really like being able to take advantage of the 14 extra seconds of retaliation I can squeeze out with this combo when it opportunistically happens. When an enemy is standing there in range after I lay down the curtain and I can nail them with the Leap/Swap. That 14 extra seconds of retaliation is gravy. But I think of it as “gravy”, not at something I can depend on and build around.

And I’m really really liking focus over torch. Between the 100% uptime on speed (if you wear 6x Centaur runes) and the occasion to opportunistically get an extra 14 seconds of retaliation, and the fact that Focus 5 pops right on top of the target making for fast shatters (compared to Torch 5 which pops too far from the target sometimes)… Well…

Basically what I’ve learned is that Focus is a better offhand weapon for 7Mirror’s shatter tank build than his preferred Torch offhand. That paltry one extra stealth that Torch gives you just isn’t nearly as utilitarian as what Focus can do for.

The other thing I’ve learned from trying out this build is to replace 7Mirror’s trait choice for 10% more crit chance on Mind Wrack to instead be your “Cry of Frustration causes retaliation”. I think that is a stronger overall choice than going from 40% crit chance on Mind Wrack to 50% crit chance.

So to sum up: My advice if you can’t afford a full set of P/V/T armor for the uber tanky 29K HP that PyroAthiest set up this build around, is to instead go heavy Knights ala 7Mirror’s build, then swap out his torch for Pyro’s Focus, and pick the 10-point trait in Illusions to be the “Cry of Frustration grants retaliation”, and then use that 14-seconds constantly at every opportunity, but consider the sword/focus combo an “extra goodie that’s nice when you can get it”.

Hope that all made sense, and hope it helps some other folks. Anyway, kudos to Pyro for giving us all some really good ideas and techniques to play with. I’d never have thought of a build concept like this on my own and I got some good techniques out of it.

shak, I do the same thing using the cry grants retaliation trait, works great with all the people hitting you getting confusion and retaliation hehe. I have also been using focus, a mix of t/p/p and p/t/v gear/accessories. Works well with a lot of survivability.

Alrighty, got a few things to reply to

@windwalker: if high amounts of conditions are the problem in sPvp, why not take the other grandmaster trait, the one that removes conditions with shatters?

@shaktiboi: you’ve made some really interesting and innovative changes to the build. Here are some solutions for your problems though. Firstly, I never designed this build for normal zvz combat. You can actually do a frontline charge with it really really well, due to the on-demand projectile reflects and massive defense, but this build is definitely not designed for actually killing people in zvz. If you want to do that, I recommend the lolzy nuker build 30/30/0/0/10 full zerker with greatsword and 4x mantras for your 4x unblockable 1200 range attacks.

You have a point about people avoiding curtain, but here’s how you deal with it. Firstly, you can activate illusionary leap with a target out of range, and still get 1 leap finisher out of it.
Here is the big trick though, and requires a ton of battlefield awareness. You can drop the curtain, then detonate it for the pull. However, the combo field still persists on the ground for the normal duration, even though the actual curtain is gone. This means you can yank someone to you with the detonate, and then still get the 14 seconds of retaliation from the invisible combo field.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Here is the big trick though, and requires a ton of battlefield awareness. You can drop the curtain, then detonate it for the pull. However, the combo field still persists on the ground for the normal duration, even though the actual curtain is gone. This means you can yank someone to you with the detonate, and then still get the 14 seconds of retaliation from the invisible combo field.

Oh oh oh, I thought the chance at using it for leap was gone after detonate which has caused me some indecisive moments but that is pretty epic, very very handy to know thanks!!!

Wow, that really -is- useful to know. Thanks Pyro!

It’s pretty fun reading this thread and seeing what everyone’s coming up with. Keep at it!

In sPvP I’m really liking Dolyak with this. Basically you trade Vit for Tough over Pyros setup, but you gain a nice regen to boot.

It’s a really fun build for messing with key-spamming newbs. ;-)

Lovin’ it, thanks again!

Pyroatheist.9031:

Alrighty, got a few things to reply to

@windwalker: if high amounts of conditions are the problem in sPvp, why not take the other grandmaster trait, the one that removes conditions with shatters?

@shaktiboi: you’ve made some really interesting and innovative changes to the build. Here are some solutions for your problems though. Firstly, I never designed this build for normal zvz combat. You can actually do a frontline charge with it really really well, due to the on-demand projectile reflects and massive defense, but this build is definitely not designed for actually killing people in zvz. If you want to do that, I recommend the lolzy nuker build 30/30/0/0/10 full zerker with greatsword and 4x mantras for your 4x unblockable 1200 range attacks.

You have a point about people avoiding curtain, but here’s how you deal with it. Firstly, you can activate illusionary leap with a target out of range, and still get 1 leap finisher out of it.
Here is the big trick though, and requires a ton of battlefield awareness. You can drop the curtain, then detonate it for the pull. However, the combo field still persists on the ground for the normal duration, even though the actual curtain is gone. This means you can yank someone to you with the detonate, and then still get the 14 seconds of retaliation from the invisible combo field.

Great feedback. Didn’t know the detonate trick, will def try it out next run.

Update, spent 2 hours with the revised version I described above in Dubs this morning, then a bunch of misc PvE this afternoon getting the rest of the jumping puzzles for my monthly.

I still do use the curtain leap combo a lot, and I found that simply waiting for someone to commit themselves to you (like they try to close range and burst you, but you’ve switched to sword #2 and made them waste their burst). By this point, they’re often determined to get you anyway, so you calmly drop the curtain and they’re still right on top of you when you use leap and swap. Good times. Good times.

On the downside, if they’ve saved up an interrupt they can still interrupt you if they keep presence of mind, but so far so good overall.

I’ll also note that even without the 20% faster recharge on Focus trait, you can still keep up essentially full time retaliation when you want it. And full time speed buffs for you and everyone near you if you run 6X Centaur runes.

I forgot to mention earlier that I swapped out Illusionary Defender for Blink instead too. ID is just too slow to summon and of course in this variant Im not using Phantasms to heal or remove conditions. Blink is so seriously useful both offensively in ZvZ and defensively to gain distance over chasers (ESP if you have full time swiftness).

I also played for about an hour with GS on my other swap instead of Staff, and honestly, I score way more kills with that setup than with Staff in my swap. Between Blink and having Clones on dodge and Decoy (and the GS 5 knockback), I really didn’t notice the loss of Staff #2. And GS is so good at crippling runners and hits hard and both of its illusions pop right on the target for fast shatters to finish off someone at extreme range. One of the staff illusions pops too far from the target for consistent shatters.

@shaktiboi: Interesting findings. Greatsword is without a doubt a better large group skirmishing weapon for exactly the reasons your described, and iDefender is useless in a large group because it simply gets instakilled. If I were going to run front line attack in my full bunker build, I would most likely swap out iDefender for blink as well.

As far as interrupting the illusionary leap/swap, they can only do that if they are very VERY fast on the interrupt, as illusionary swap is a stunbreaker, and if their interrupt is a projectile, it will be reflected by temporal curtain.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@shaktiboi: Interesting findings. Greatsword is without a doubt a better large group skirmishing weapon for exactly the reasons your described, and iDefender is useless in a large group because it simply gets instakilled. If I were going to run front line attack in my full bunker build, I would most likely swap out iDefender for blink as well.

As far as interrupting the illusionary leap/swap, they can only do that if they are very VERY fast on the interrupt, as illusionary swap is a stunbreaker, and if their interrupt is a projectile, it will be reflected by temporal curtain.

If the interruption is a projectile, as far as i saw it, it’simportant where you stand. If you stand in TC the projectile will be reflected, if you stand behind it, it will be reflected. If you stand on it, but not in the middle of it( i mean enemy——you—tc), it seems to me, like there is a 50% chance to get hit and reflected at the same time…

I hope you all can undestand what i mean^^ because i don’t know how to write it more clearly >.<

Hi you mentioned that when using illusionary leap and switch position + temporal curtain will give about 14 sec of retaliation but it didn’t happen to me? Could you point out what could possible went wrong?

Edit: tried it again, ahaha i needed to stand on the actual line for that to work

Pyroatheist sir…. I used the CoF on a guardian last night in WvW and the poor soul killed himself. Thank you for your experimentation with our builds and sharing with the community. You osicat and seven mirror all are greatly appreciated.

Have you tried using Veil of Invis as an extra light curtain to pop off some extra retaliation/cleansing bolts? I was surprised not to see it in the build.

Soyboy.3548:

Have you tried using Veil of Invis as an extra light curtain to pop off some extra retaliation/cleansing bolts? I was surprised not to see it in the build.

Veil is an ethereal combo field. It also has a cooldown that makes it completely useless for anything other than stealthing massive numbers of people in wvw, or other super niche uses.

It says it is a light field…yup checked in game. The only ethereals we have are chaos storm, feedback, null field, and time warp. Lights are temporal curtain and veil.

Anyhow, I haven’t read this whole thread and the ins-and outs because it is so lengthy, but I am wondering why the OP doesn’t value the blocks grant retaliation perk. You just equip Mimic and you get a ton of retaliation that way regardless of whether you use a scepter 2 or OH sword 4 (or chaos storm also gives a block) especially if someone is rapid firing at you. Mimic is basically permablock for 4 seconds and the number of blocks depends on number of hits taken…

Next, I was wondering why the Retaliation on Downed trait isn’t taken…It basically means people take damage if they try to finish you off without a stomp. In close fights that usually means you win.

Soyboy.3548:

It says it is a light field…yup checked in game. The only ethereals we have are chaos storm, feedback, null field, and time warp. Lights are temporal curtain and veil.

Anyhow, I haven’t read this whole thread and the ins-and outs because it is so lengthy, but I am wondering why the OP doesn’t value the blocks grant retaliation perk. You just equip Mimic and you get a ton of retaliation that way regardless of whether you use a scepter 2 or OH sword 4 (or chaos storm also gives a block) especially if someone is rapid firing at you. Mimic is basically permablock for 4 seconds and the number of blocks depends on number of hits taken…

Next, I was wondering why the Retaliation on Downed trait isn’t taken…It basically means people take damage if they try to finish you off without a stomp. In close fights that usually means you win.

I’ll say it again, veil is an ethereal combo field. You may have looked at the skill, but you obviously didn’t test it out, because you would have seen that I was right.

I notice that you said you haven’t read the thread in and out because it is so lengthy, you also obviously have not even read the original post entirely. Go and do that, and then perhaps rethink your opinions. Educated criticism and comments are welcomed, uneducated and uninformed of the same are not.

@ Pyroatheist

I don’t now… but do you use music for your videos? Because in germany you can only watch your first video… (for example i can’t watch your newest)
Don’t know if you can do something about it, but if you upload your next video could you (if possible) confirm everyone can look at it? I would like to see you 1vs many parts^^

Macha.9160:

@ Pyroatheist

I don’t now… but do you use music for your videos? Because in germany you can only watch your first video… (for example i can’t watch your newest)
Don’t know if you can do something about it, but if you upload your next video could you (if possible) confirm everyone can look at it? I would like to see you 1vs many parts^^

I do use music for the videos. Youtube gives me the little “you are using copyrighted music in your videos” warning, but that obviously has different affects in different parts of the world. I am unfamiliar with the ins and outs of this, but if someone could give me some tips on how to make my videos available to everyone, it would be much appreciated.

Basically I think in Germany anything with copyrighted music won’t be view-able as I understand it.

So many pieces of this build just fit together nicely. Outstanding stuff Pyro, great skill and very entertaining to see in action. I got a kick out of the 1 vs Many.

Macha, take a look at a plugin called ProxTube. ()

Enjoy! ;-)

Pyroatheist.9031:

Macha.9160:

@ Pyroatheist

I don’t now… but do you use music for your videos? Because in germany you can only watch your first video… (for example i can’t watch your newest)
Don’t know if you can do something about it, but if you upload your next video could you (if possible) confirm everyone can look at it? I would like to see you 1vs many parts^^

I do use music for the videos. Youtube gives me the little “you are using copyrighted music in your videos” warning, but that obviously has different affects in different parts of the world. I am unfamiliar with the ins and outs of this, but if someone could give me some tips on how to make my videos available to everyone, it would be much appreciated.

@Pyro I have been running fractals with the iDefender and I use to scoff this little guy off (I’m asura). But If I have an iWarden on the boss as well with a Chaos Storm on top of them they last a lot longer because the phantasms regen each other along with boons from the cS and the defender is one of the few reasons I feel tanky. Using this build I was able to solo the last half of the boss in the ascalonian fractal. The utility here is just amazing.

how well do you do against burst bs thieves that disappear alot? The ones that attack, then disappear, attack and so on. mind posting vids? thx and nice vids btw

knight.8926:

how well do you do against burst bs thieves that disappear alot? The ones that attack, then disappear, attack and so on. mind posting vids? thx and nice vids btw

The first thief in my first video attempted to do that sort of attack pattern, although they were not too good at it. In general, burst bs thieves are extremely weak against this build. They are highly dependent on raw damage, and this build has very high armor alongside high uptime on protection. Having the iDefender out is just icing on the cake. They can’t possibly hope to do more damage than I can outheal through the phantasm regeneration procs and my normal ether feast, and any sustained attack they make on you will kill them extremely quickly from retaliation.

As long as you remember to not shatter your clones/phantasms when they stealth, you should do fine from the regen procs and 3% less damage per illusion. Additionally, all the illusions will immediately attack a thief once they are unstealthed, making culling a non-issue.

jportell.2197:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Macha.9160:

@ Pyroatheist

I don’t now… but do you use music for your videos? Because in germany you can only watch your first video… (for example i can’t watch your newest)
Don’t know if you can do something about it, but if you upload your next video could you (if possible) confirm everyone can look at it? I would like to see you 1vs many parts^^

I do use music for the videos. Youtube gives me the little “you are using copyrighted music in your videos” warning, but that obviously has different affects in different parts of the world. I am unfamiliar with the ins and outs of this, but if someone could give me some tips on how to make my videos available to everyone, it would be much appreciated.

@Pyro I have been running fractals with the iDefender and I use to scoff this little guy off (I’m asura). But If I have an iWarden on the boss as well with a Chaos Storm on top of them they last a lot longer because the phantasms regen each other along with boons from the cS and the defender is one of the few reasons I feel tanky. Using this build I was able to solo the last half of the boss in the ascalonian fractal. The utility here is just amazing.

If you manage to get fully set up on a boss, then a phantasmal defender can truly be a defensive force to be reckoned with. Unfortunately, in a team situation the defender usually gets killed extremely quickly just from the quantity of damage that everyone around it is taking.

As far as soloing that boss goes, just kite your heart out with staff and you should be fine. Make sure you take feedback into that fight, as his attack with the flaming greatsword is all projectiles, and will add up easily to over 20k damage if you hit him with feedback at the right time.

I never had feed back for this Since I have the focus traited… I usually timed his projectiles and it worked great. But I will keep it in mind. I usually have signet of illusions so that I can fully trait how I would like into the illusions trait line and use SOI to reset my shatters when necessary and it allows the Defender to stay up a little bit longer in the group situation. But this build is what got me to try a tank build.

I feel the remove condition on heal trait is really underwhelming unless combined with mantra of recovery. The vigor on shatter trait IMO is much better as it gives you vigor even with 0 clone shatters with Illusionary Persona and increases your survivability much more with the extra dodges.

While condition removal isn’t abundant in this build, you do have a built in condition removal via combo’ing Focus 5 (whirl finisher) with Focus 4 (light field). Supplemented with Null Field gives you adequate condition removal IMO.

Hey Pyroatheist i was really amazed to see how long u could manage against multiple opponents so that’s why i really want to try it out.

I was wondering what gear/runes/sigils and jewelry u are wearing?
I have about 17 stacks of AC tokens do it’s no problem to get a new Power/Toughness/Vitality set + weapons, but what about the rest?
Because u lack a little bit of high damage output would a superior sigil of with +250 power @ 25 stacks be a good option?
And what about rune’s? are u wearing runes of the soldier to get more Vitality and Toughness?

Are your weapons also P/T/V ?

cheeseonbike.5607:

Hey Pyroatheist i was really amazed to see how long u could manage against multiple opponents so that’s why i really want to try it out.

I was wondering what gear/runes/sigils and jewelry u are wearing?
I have about 17 stacks of AC tokens do it’s no problem to get a new Power/Toughness/Vitality set + weapons, but what about the rest?
Because u lack a little bit of high damage output would a superior sigil of with +250 power @ 25 stacks be a good option?
And what about rune’s? are u wearing runes of the soldier to get more Vitality and Toughness?

Are your weapons also P/T/V ?

Everything I am wearing is soldier’s stats. My amulet and earrings are only rare, bought from the wvw karma vendor, the rings are ascended. The jewelry has crests of the soldier in them, and the armor has 5 runes of the soldier and 1 rune of the svanir.

A superior sigil of power with 25 sacks would do almost nothing for my normal damage, but because retaliation scales off of power, it would be a fantastic boost to the retaliation damage.

Skyro.3108:

I feel the remove condition on heal trait is really underwhelming unless combined with mantra of recovery. The vigor on shatter trait IMO is much better as it gives you vigor even with 0 clone shatters with Illusionary Persona and increases your survivability much more with the extra dodges.

While condition removal isn’t abundant in this build, you do have a built in condition removal via combo’ing Focus 5 (whirl finisher) with Focus 4 (light field). Supplemented with Null Field gives you adequate condition removal IMO.

Null field really has no place in this build. All three of my utilities are extremely important, and that is one of the reasons that I take as much condition removal as possible. In another post I discussed what food I use, and my food has a condition removal effect on healing every 10 seconds. When you stack up that effect with the trait of removal, it becomes very difficult to get conditions to stick to me. The whirl finisher in temporal curtain is amazing, but not always reliable to do.

Condition removal is of absolute highest priority in this build, simply because it is a bunker build. There is no innate defense against damaging conditions other than removal, necessitating as much removal as possible. Additionally, cripple and chill both severely impeded my mobility and ability to disengage from a fight at will, becoming extremely dangerous. Lastly, poison interferes with my healing, which is a very important component of how this build works.

Without every last shred of condition removal I can throw together, conditions start to eat this build. Remember that this build is based on actually getting hit and not dodging every attack. Many condition applying attacks have a lot of small hits, making them the ideal situation for retaliation damage. In this build, I want to tank those attacks for my retaliation damage output, and then simply be able to remove the conditions applied after the attack is finished.

Jofu.9637:

Hi you mentioned that when using illusionary leap and switch position + temporal curtain will give about 14 sec of retaliation but it didn’t happen to me? Could you point out what could possible went wrong?

Edit: tried it again, ahaha i needed to stand on the actual line for that to work

I got retaliation but not 14 seconds. Am i doing something wrong?

cheeseonbike.5607:

Jofu.9637:

Hi you mentioned that when using illusionary leap and switch position + temporal curtain will give about 14 sec of retaliation but it didn’t happen to me? Could you point out what could possible went wrong?

Edit: tried it again, ahaha i needed to stand on the actual line for that to work

I got retaliation but not 14 seconds. Am i doing something wrong?

If you got something around 12 seconds, that is just a difference in buff duration increase stat.

However, if you got between 6 and 7, you are only activating one part of the leap combo. To get both parts, you must stand on the temporal curtain line, activate illusionary leap (combo 1), and then activate illusionary swap (combo 2). Swap must be activated while you are still on the temporal curtain line in order for the combo to work.

Been using this build since release more or less. Usually run blink rather than defender. Getting into their lines or out in some cases seems much more appealing. Also helps a ton with setting up the combo for Ret. Glad to see more people are trying it out rather than sticking to the shatter specs. Great guide Pyro.

Seige
AD(Anonymous Defender)- Devonas Rest
The orginal fairy tank

I agree with the positive sentiments so far in this thread. I have been skeptical of the focus in WvW aside from pulling people off walls, but I changed to this spec out of curiosity and I love it. In fact, many opponents have no idea how to handle it and simply run away. Good job pyro!