Guild Wars 2

Gaiawolf.8261:

325 isn’t much until you realize that you dish out 70+ attacks during the fight.

Exactly that. You obviously don’t have a damage log in wvw, but way back when I was still figuring out exactly how my build worked, a guy that had tried to kill me a few times challenged me to duels. After he died a few times, he informed me that every kill, I was dealing over 13k damage to him from retal, and that’s what really got me thinking about the retal tank portion of this build.

Very interesting indeed. Hard to imagine 70 attacks in a fight (I’m sure it’s every bit of that-just never thought about it), and obviously it depends on how long the fight lasts and what class you are facing, but yeah it’s a bit of an eye opener for sure.

Well if you figure that one BF is actually 8 attacks, every GS auto is 3, and a full shatter is 3-4, the hits really add up. Many other classes have even more multi-attack skills.

Actually, mesmers have some protection from this build since many of our attacks are made by pets. Just imagine how a p/d thief feels.

Ok, a small group of enemies are taking a tower in WvW and you get there just in time to get the lord. As the small group streams through the gate you count X. How high does X have to be for you to run and how many can you hold against before help arrives?

The question could also be asked, how immortal is this mesmer and what are the keys factors in staying alive?

Kabuki.9103:

Ok, a small group of enemies are taking a tower in WvW and you get there just in time to get the lord. As the small group streams through the gate you count X. How high does X have to be for you to run and how many can you hold against before help arrives?

The question could also be asked, how immortal is this mesmer and what are the keys factors in staying alive?

In a tower with the lord and associated npcs still alive? I could probably hold out for a minute or 2 against 5-10 people. The npcs help out massively, because when people are concentrating on me, the npcs are doing a lot of damage, the scouts and guardian npcs are doing a ton of aoe blinding, and then I can hide behind them to heal up.

On the other hand, if the npcs are already down and I’m doing a last stand charge into the circle, significantly less time. If I have to fight in a confined area like the circle, my survivability goes down really really fast.

In a camp, however, I have held out against 20+ people for about a minute, long enough for my own zerg to arrive and save the day. This is possible because some camps give a really large area to manouver in. The more kiting, dodging, and evasion that I can do, the better my survivability is.

Hey all, non-mesmer here.

So, I’ve been getting into some WvW pretty heavily recently, since the updates.

I’ve noticed that this particular build is used by quite a few mesmers. In fact, it’s just about every single one I see, has this exact build. To the point where I saw a group of 7 of them, all mesmers, all with this build. Of course, they were eating some folks for breakfast.

The problem is, this build is literally TOO good. The stealth, dodges, clones, retaliation, all that is annoying, but tolerable. The worst, the coup de etat is that Lemongrass Soup + Melandru Runes.

All conditions might as well not exist when fighting these mesmers, and it makes it pretty much impossible to kill them.

- I can’t log my warrior/guard and just AOE em, because of Retaliation.
- I can’t Condition them down with my ranger or necro, because of see above.
- I can SOMETIMES get them down with my thief, but that has to be a ONLY 1v1 and even then it’s close. If ANY other mob or player gets involved, it’s probably going south for me.

Last, but not least, most mesmers on this build, place a portal in a fortification, then jump wall and blurred frenzy some seige/players and cause general mayhem. Then, when things seem to be going poorly, they just portal right back inside by placing the “end” portal. Could have sworn it was client hacking when I saw it the first time.

So, I’m not jumping onto the nerf bandwagon just yet, because I like builds like these that are multifaceted. What I am asking all of you all is:

How would you counter this build, NOT as a mesmer?

Some things to consider:
– Generally in WvW.
– I do not play a mesmer.
– I’m not a perfect player.
– I’d like some tips to KILL then, not just make them run.
– I still do not play a mesmer.

Thanks all, seems you’ve got some knowledgeable people in here.

-Turimbar.

@Turimbar

You’re really not going to like this answer, but here it is: The only class that has successfully beaten (note: not killed, killing happens, whether due to mistakes or lag or w/e) this build is another mesmer. There are a few reasons for this. Mesmers have by far the highest amount of boon removal in the game, and are the only class that can reliably remove retaliation from this build. Mesmers also have some of the highest burst, which is necessary to kill this build. Lastly, mesmers are really the most versatile with active defense, allowing them to dodge a lot of my confusion/other offense.

The closest any other build has gotten has been a sword/dagger + dagger/pistol thief. The thief had a mix of damage and sustain traits such as hp regen in stealth and condition removal in stealth while still doing decent damage. In order to kill this thief, I had to extend my neck a bit more than I was comfortable with, and got into a couple of hairy situations because of it. However, even that build was never able to successfully kill me, and eventually they would make 1 too many mistakes and die.

While this build lacks many things, such as upfront damage, pve group utility, and out of combat mobility, the difficulty with which it is killed and the amount of damage it can return while doing so is quite honestly unbalanced. The -condition duration combo that I now run, having been introduced to it a month or so into this thread is really, as you said, the icing on the cake turning this build from irritating into patently unstoppable. I’m really expecting some sort of nerf to the retaliation mechanic every time a new patch comes out, because the way this build works is rather untenable.

One note: In large scale zerg fights, this build is severely outclassed by the glamour build in terms of zergbusting overpowered mechanics, and I would honestly never run anything but a glamour build in large zerg fights. That being said, I would also never run anything but this build in any fight with less than 10 people per side.

Turimbar, I can’t imagine there’s that many mesmers you’re seeing running this specific build, I think more likely you’re just seeing a lot of mesmers in general because they’re a good wvw class. Not sure what makes you think they’re all this build, the -condition food? I use that 95% of my wvw time and I very rarely use this build, in fact it’s probably been over a month since I’ve run it in wvw, the food is really good for most everyone.

@Turimbar. In response to the stealth/insane amount of clones… When using this build I have neither….. Because honestly it isn’t necessary for me especially in small group fighting… I highly doubt there are mesmers you run into that use ALL of this… maybe some of the mesmers but I highly doubt all of them…. and you see a lot of them using food because well our condi removal sucks bad to begin with so its just a good thing for all of us to use.

how good are they against thieves though? the ones that stealth every second and backstab and when they come out of stealth their health is always full. Any videos regarding it, I don’t care if they’re fail videos being beaten by a thief.

knight.8926:

how good are they against thieves though? the ones that stealth every second and backstab and when they come out of stealth their health is always full

Against thieves this build is pretty good… Just manage the shatters so you can track the baddies when they pop out of stealth… if it is a p/d bleed then just make sure you are standing on dem reflects.

jportell.2197:

knight.8926:

how good are they against thieves though? the ones that stealth every second and backstab and when they come out of stealth their health is always full

Against thieves this build is pretty good… Just manage the shatters so you can track the baddies when they pop out of stealth… if it is a p/d bleed then just make sure you are standing on dem reflects.

sorry but is there a video against thieves, the other videos aren’t really impressive since the ones he was fighting weren’t very bursty. Any mesmer build could’ve done what he did on that.

knight.8926:

jportell.2197:

knight.8926:

how good are they against thieves though? the ones that stealth every second and backstab and when they come out of stealth their health is always full

Against thieves this build is pretty good… Just manage the shatters so you can track the baddies when they pop out of stealth… if it is a p/d bleed then just make sure you are standing on dem reflects.

sorry but is there a video against thieves, the other videos aren’t really impressive since the ones he was fighting weren’t very bursty. Any mesmer build could’ve done what he did on that.

You mean the thieves pyro fought in his videos here? They don’t seem very bursty because of how tanky the build is… When it comes down to it you are starting to get almost 3k armor on a cloth class and the built in regen at x health and protection whenever you regen….So it is an innate type thing…Any thief that is running a main hand dagger is going for that backstab and backstab doesn’t really hurt in this build…

Edit: Also don’t bust your first shatter until the thief comes out of stealth then immediately get phantasms up… After that you are golden.

@Knight: I’ll try to get some footage of a fight against a really bursty thief. What you have to consider, however, is this: take normal burst damage, then scale it down for 3k armor after that, scale it down another 9% for 3 illusions out. After that, scale it down by 50% for the defender. After that, maybe apply 30% reduction from protection. What used to be burst rapidly begins to hit like a wet noodle.

Additionally, thieves are extremely reliant on their stealth attack, and that attack is get easy to dodge. Blurred frenzy alone can easily dodge 1 out of every 2 stealth attacks, and a well times double dodge will take care of the rest. If a thief actually hits me with backstab, it never does more than 4k damage, as a maximum. However, with smart play, the vast majority of stealth attacks can be avoided.

Edit: As I typed this, I realized I have no idea of the priority of damage reduction modifiers, so I will test this out tonight.

Kazhiel.8194:

Turimbar, I can’t imagine there’s that many mesmers you’re seeing running this specific build, I think more likely you’re just seeing a lot of mesmers in general because they’re a good wvw class. Not sure what makes you think they’re all this build, the -condition food? I use that 95% of my wvw time and I very rarely use this build, in fact it’s probably been over a month since I’ve run it in wvw, the food is really good for most everyone.

Thanks for the replies all. I do appreciate the concerted lack of “L2p n00b” responses.

After checking a few screenshots, max number of mesmers is usually about 10% of the active combatants. There is a particular guild that is against us in WvW that ALWAYS runs 7x of these mesmers with this exact build. They substitute a few traits/skills, but the Melandru runes, retaliation uptime with Sword/Focus, and food use is exactly the same.
That said, those seven mesmers can easily take on 20-30 and keep them wrapped up for a long long time.

I really don’t like the response that mesmers are the way to go to beat this build, but, I appreciate the honesty. I’ll keep trying out new counters. Might even share a few. I can reliably push them all back up to 1v2, but I can’t get any of them down.

For those that are asking, I am 100% certain they are using stealth skills. Nothing else would cause me to drop target like that.

If I had to call a nerf to this build, it would most certainly be the food. I still appreciate the tankiness of it, and the deception of using retaliation to blow up anyone trying to kill the clones.

Again, thanks for the feedback. I may have to save the gems to make a mesmer. -_-

Turimbar

Who is this guild with seven immortal mesmers? Lol

And what server.. I would like to encourage them to transfer… Oh the mayhem… Especially if a couple run glamour builds.

Yeah, I wouldn’t mind acquiring a 7 mesmer kill team myself…

Turimbar plays on the GoM server in T7. I’m guessing the mesmer guild of note is XOXO (NSP server -had server name wrong first time). Some recent posts about them in our WWW matchup thread.

I’ve been curious about this … I see you, Osicat, SevenMirror, etc. take the shatter cooldown reset at 50% hp in several of your builds. However, when I’m watching the videos, I’m not really seeing this be leveraged, particularly by you and SevenMirror since both of you aren’t as prone to shattering as Osicat.

Could you please elaborate on why you take this trait, particularly in a build with such low illusion generation due to a lack of 20 in Dueling?

Thanks.

Sebrent.3625:

I’ve been curious about this … I see you, Osicat, SevenMirror, etc. take the shatter cooldown reset at 50% hp in several of your builds. However, when I’m watching the videos, I’m not really seeing this be leveraged, particularly by you and SevenMirror since both of you aren’t as prone to shattering as Osicat.

Could you please elaborate on why you take this trait, particularly in a build with such low illusion generation due to a lack of 20 in Dueling?

Thanks.

It’s primarily defensive for my build. First though, there’s not really anything better to take there.

In the more offensive shatter builds, this provides the potential for another strong full shatter burst if the enemy has brought you below 50%, which can be surprising, and just a strong overall boost to your potential dps in general. For my build, if I ever drop below 50% and I already used distortion, chances are I’m going to be needing it again pretty quickly. The reset on the other 3 are nice as well, but it is primarily for the defense of distortion.

I have been running very close to this build for about 3 months I think. I have become unstoppable in 1v1. Even Phantom Mesmers can’t take me down though those fights are ridiculously long.

Solo wise my max with 100% survival is 1v5. Anything more than that and even with kiting in a loverly wooded area gets rough swiftly.

I was a member of Avatar for a good long time and thus ALWAYS had a Kylia Glamour Mesmer with me. We were pretty much invincible and could even take out small 10-15 person mini zergs.

I do not see many Immortals on my server actually.

About nerfing this build since some people have noticed it’s freakn amazing. Solo or vers small groups and when we are by ourselves or a very small group we really shine. However, the nerf to the max amount of time that we can stack retalition to was a HUGE hit on our group dynamics. Not being able to keep up 100% retal on people because we can’t reach a high enough stack to last the entire cool down of SoInsp. was a major hit.

WvW is mainly about running in groups and with that this build lost a lot of its group synergy. If you are saying to nerf it cause you can’t win in a duel against us in WvW you are kind of thinking of WvW in a very wrong way. Though I will say if you can beat an Immortal with a Thief you are facing a poor Immortal because Thieves are easily one of our most easily defeated classes.

Hexxen.7216:

However, the nerf to the max amount of time that we can stack retalition to was a HUGE hit on our group dynamics. Not being able to keep up 100% retal on people because we can’t reach a high enough stack to last the entire cool down of SoInsp. was a major hit.

Glad to see you’re having fun with my build, but the quoted portion of your post is, thankfully, completely untrue. There has never been a nerf to the maximum amount of time retaliation can be stacked. The garbled patch notes for retaliation that came out at one point seemed to refer to the maximum amount of retaliation hits that 1 attack could return, although I’m not sure that has ever been verified.

Without a doubt though, there is no limit on retaliation stacking time…or at least it isn’t possible to hit it as a mesmer. Even if you do a 3 clone cry and the double leap combo at the exact same time, you’ll only get about 29 seconds of retaliation…significantly lower than the cooldown of SoI. Keeping retaliation up 100% of the time on a group of people purely by using SoI has never been a possible strategy.

Your build has effectively saved me from quiting GWs as it was getting boring but I must refute your statement. I was able to keep it up 100% of the time easily before the update. I know you will once again refute this but I did what I did and you do what you do. We will never see eye to eye on this and there is no way to test this anymore since I can no longer do it. But another Mesmer friend that I got to switch to my tweeked version of your build could also do 100% up time.

Hexxen.7216:

Your build has effectively saved me from quiting GWs as it was getting boring but I must refute your statement. I was able to keep it up 100% of the time easily before the update. I know you will once again refute this but I did what I did and you do what you do. We will never see eye to eye on this and there is no way to test this anymore since I can no longer do it. But another Mesmer friend that I got to switch to my tweeked version of your build could also do 100% up time.

As it turns out, I just went and tested some retaliation stacking with full boon duration. The maximum stackable time is 30 seconds, it won’t go above that.

That being said, I would have to see some very specific proof that you could stack higher than 30 seconds prior to the patch, which specifically said it didn’t change duration stacking, for me to believe that this 30 second cap was imposed with the patch. Additionally, the traited SoInsp is on a 36 second cooldown, which results in an effective 83% uptime on retaliation for anyone you can hit with SoInsp, and easily 100% if anyone happens to use a leap or blast finisher on curtain.

Yeah I didn’t want to believe they placed a max time cap but I think when they said the 5 stacks of retaliation they meant the duration. 5secs being a full stack. I made myself a full boon duration set just to test this and I can not get above 30 anymore either. However, I ran some fast math just now for my past stacking and came up with this:

5s X 3 leaps (sword 2 and staff retreat)
15s from full CoF (this may have been 4 if your own personal shatter counted but I don’t think it did)
That is 30 sec so far.
I would run Pain Inverter as I am an Asuran when running in groups to help so that is 5 more seconds.
At 35 now. (yes you lose a few seconds between using skills but you can do this rather fast)
If you add in the 30% boon duration we have naturally from running as immortals that is about an extra 5-6 seconds (I am HORRIBLE AT MATH)
so that is 40-41 secs. If you add in the chance to get it from Chaos Storm which i tend to get it rather often that is 45-46secs. And by now your sword ability is back up or you have reached 50% HP and shatter is up again.

It may have not been 100% but it was darn close. Even when not fighting in groups when I wouldn’t run SoInsp. it was still 100 times easier to keep retaliation up before the retal nerf. I mean it is still easy but I could usually forget about it after my initial stacking of it at the start of a fight and just refresh it as a side note to using my abilities instead of using my abilities specifically for stacking.

@Hexxen: My numbers regarding 83% uptime are purely with respects to SoInsp usage. Keeping retaliation up 100% of the time on yourself is very very easy, as the cooldowns on the leap combo and cry of frustration are low enough that you can simply refresh the retaliation with no problem. Additionally, you won’t hit the 30 second cap unless you do 3 leap combos and the 3 clone cry immediately following each other. Since I almost never use phase retreat for retal, saving it for chaos armor, that isn’t a problem.

The only time the 30s cap comes into play is when you try to keep retal up on a group through the use of SoInsp. Since the signet is on a 36 second traited cooldown, you need to be able to distribute 36 seconds of retaliation in 1 shot, and that isn’t, and never has been possible.

It was possible. You don’t stack and then hit SoI. I would build up using CoF and the triple leap and my Pain Inverter. Once I had enough time to be over the cool down of SoI then I would hit it and could keep it up from that point on. It was a gradual process to start it but once you started it you could keep it going.

Before the patch I was able to stack close to a minute. It hasn’t really affected my play though.

bhagwad.4281:

Before the patch I was able to stack close to a minute. It hasn’t really affected my play though.

Same. And it has only affected my group play.

That being that conversation.

There was someone complaining that this build was OP because of our Runes of Melandru and our Soup. I would like to remind them that because these are runes and food and have no way any connection to the Mesmer profession any class can benefit from this combo.

Hexxen.7216:

That being that conversation.

There was someone complaining that this build was OP because of our Runes of Melandru and our Soup. I would like to remind them that because these are runes and food and have no way any connection to the Mesmer profession any class can benefit from this combo.

While that’s technically correct, in this particular situation the runes and soup happen to nicely remove the only possible vulnerability that this build had, being damaging and disabling conditions. I can definitely say that the difference between using that combo and before I switched to it is night and day in terms of the survivability of the build. This build definitely has overpowered defensive capabilities with respect to how potent the retaliation mechanic is.

Pyro FYI the PvPers are griping about this build now… Nerf INCOMING. lol… :P seriously tho this build is amazing and right up there in the bunker builds.

jportell.2197:

Pyro FYI the PvPers are griping about this build now… Nerf INCOMING. lol… :P seriously tho this build is amazing and right up there in the bunker builds.

Always fun to bask in the gripes.

Honestly though, I’ve taken to running my pvp phantasm build more often when I’m sorta bunkering down on a point, as it can demolish even the bunker engineers or guardians that will try to knock you off of the point, and there is absolutely nothing that can even come close to killing it solo if I don’t really screw up.

Wait sorry just to be clear you use this exact build for sPVP and tPVP also? And it works out completely fine?

painHV.2516:

Wait sorry just to be clear you use this exact build for sPVP and tPVP also? And it works out completely fine?

I used it for tpvp when my guild was doing that for the monthly. I’m not a regular pvper, preferring to stick to wvw, so I picked out a tanky build to try it with. It worked well enough once I remembered how to play it haha I haven’t used the build in wvw for quite a while, tho I don’t think it worked as well as it does in wvw.

Kazhiel.8194:

painHV.2516:

Wait sorry just to be clear you use this exact build for sPVP and tPVP also? And it works out completely fine?

I used it for tpvp when my guild was doing that for the monthly. I’m not a regular pvper, preferring to stick to wvw, so I picked out a tanky build to try it with. It worked well enough once I remembered how to play it haha I haven’t used the build in wvw for quite a while, tho I don’t think it worked as well as it does in wvw.

It works well, but nothing as compared to in wvw. You don’t have the -40% condition duration food, and that hurts a lot. Retaliation also doesn’t scale properly in sPvP off of your phantasms, it is a fixed amount that varies a bit per phantasm, which is really weird. Lastly, confusion hits about as hard as a wet noodle.

I’m looking for a build for FOTM and WVW, however do not want cond / conf or get very bursting clones show me what?

Elmister.8504:

I’m looking for a build for FOTM and WVW, however do not want cond / conf or get very bursting clones show me what?

This build isn’t good for fractals lol

Hey all, and thanks Pyroatheist for sharing and creating this awesome build.

I read through the forum and although I don’t happen to have a full leveled mesmer yet, I do run a modified immortal guardian, warrior and am attempting at making a similar ranger.

I do have a question though – what are your thoughts in using a scepter/torch instead of the staff?

Someone at the first page asked that but presumably wanted to swap the focus out (which would be really bad). I’ve heard that these weapons are generally awful on a mesmer, but prior to some fix the Prestige could send out two blast finishers as I understand, and coupled with the blast field of Feedback could also cast chaos armor like the staff and get stealth, burning and loads of more confusion, a block/blind and hopefully more retaliation provided the iMage does its thing?

painHV.2516:

Wait sorry just to be clear you use this exact build for sPVP and tPVP also? And it works out completely fine?

I use this build in PVP when my team wants me to hold a point…. It works quite well with the area retal and if our team lacks a bunker and I don’t feel like switching to guard… The only real downside to this build in PVP is the conditions are more noticeable because the melandru runes are the only passive condi removal you get no food or amulets that offset it… To off set this I pull mirror images off the bar and put mantra of resolve up… I can still usually get a 2-3 ill shatter in for my first COF and because I want to keep illusions up more I keep persisting images over menders purity with Sig of Illusions and they defender is nearly unkillable unless there are a few people that are trying to rush me… This keeps fairly good self condi removal and good area regen for a team… I have used it in dungeons and it works quite well especially if you want to draw agro from the boss… You will never face tank like a bunker guardian but you will be pretty dang close.

cArLiCuS.4690:

Hey all, and thanks Pyroatheist for sharing and creating this awesome build.

I read through the forum and although I don’t happen to have a full leveled mesmer yet, I do run a modified immortal guardian, warrior and am attempting at making a similar ranger.

I do have a question though – what are your thoughts in using a scepter/torch instead of the staff?

Someone at the first page asked that but presumably wanted to swap the focus out (which would be really bad). I’ve heard that these weapons are generally awful on a mesmer, but prior to some fix the Prestige could send out two blast finishers as I understand, and coupled with the blast field of Feedback could also cast chaos armor like the staff and get stealth, burning and loads of more confusion, a block/blind and hopefully more retaliation provided the iMage does its thing?

It would be a pretty horrible idea.

First, what you lose: You lose phase retreat, a forced movement leap combo finisher capable of being used while stunned/dazed/knocked down/immobilized/crippled/chilled that creates a clone and is on a 5 second cooldown. If staff only had 1 skill and it was phase retreat, I still wouldn’t give it up. You also lose chaos armor, which is 5 seconds of protection on-demand, as well as providing pretty much permanent swiftness while in combat, even more regeneration, and cripping, blinding, and confusing the enemy. Chaos storm is a potent defensive and offensive tool. It can generate chaos armor with phase retreat, applies aegis to yourself and any illusions in it, applies some more retaliation, and is a highly reliable aoe interrupt. Lastly, its cooldown trait provides 50 more toughness.

What you gain: A block from scepter. Confusing images, a long and slow channel that stacks 5 confusion, scaling off of condition damage of which I don’t have very much. The cooldown trait clashes with that of focus. The prestige is an awesome skill, no way around that. Unfortunately, the iMage is objectively the worst skill for any weapon, on any class, in the entire game. You can find my analysis of that here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Torch-isn-t-viable-in-PvE-Dungeons/first#post1788743

Additionally, the cooldown trait for torch is 20 points into domination.

Overall, you get a decent stealth tool from scepter and torch. That’s pretty much it.

Pyroatheist.9031:

cArLiCuS.4690:

Hey all, and thanks Pyroatheist for sharing and creating this awesome build.

I read through the forum and although I don’t happen to have a full leveled mesmer yet, I do run a modified immortal guardian, warrior and am attempting at making a similar ranger.

I do have a question though – what are your thoughts in using a scepter/torch instead of the staff?

Someone at the first page asked that but presumably wanted to swap the focus out (which would be really bad). I’ve heard that these weapons are generally awful on a mesmer, but prior to some fix the Prestige could send out two blast finishers as I understand, and coupled with the blast field of Feedback could also cast chaos armor like the staff and get stealth, burning and loads of more confusion, a block/blind and hopefully more retaliation provided the iMage does its thing?

It would be a pretty horrible idea.

First, what you lose: You lose phase retreat, a forced movement leap combo finisher capable of being used while stunned/dazed/knocked down/immobilized/crippled/chilled that creates a clone and is on a 5 second cooldown. If staff only had 1 skill and it was phase retreat, I still wouldn’t give it up. You also lose chaos armor, which is 5 seconds of protection on-demand, as well as providing pretty much permanent swiftness while in combat, even more regeneration, and cripping, blinding, and confusing the enemy. Chaos storm is a potent defensive and offensive tool. It can generate chaos armor with phase retreat, applies aegis to yourself and any illusions in it, applies some more retaliation, and is a highly reliable aoe interrupt. Lastly, its cooldown trait provides 50 more toughness.

What you gain: A block from scepter. Confusing images, a long and slow channel that stacks 5 confusion, scaling off of condition damage of which I don’t have very much. The cooldown trait clashes with that of focus. The prestige is an awesome skill, no way around that. Unfortunately, the iMage is objectively the worst skill for any weapon, on any class, in the entire game. You can find my analysis of that here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Torch-isn-t-viable-in-PvE-Dungeons/first#post1788743

Additionally, the cooldown trait for torch is 20 points into domination.

Overall, you get a decent stealth tool from scepter and torch. That’s pretty much it.

Wow, very thorough reply, thanks so much for the explanation.

I"m missing something guys. After reading this thread I’ve decided to lvl up a mesmer and give this a shot. I’ve only gotten him into the mid 20’s so far and starting at about lvl 15, even pve got to be fun. (still not brave enough to go into wvw without the 2h yet) Got the combo fields down pretty well, thanks for all the explanation. But I’ve looked everything over and not sure how phant regen it’s acquired. Is there some trait or ?? that I need to get them to cast this? So far, mine aren’t.

Fengist.5739:

I"m missing something guys. After reading this thread I’ve decided to lvl up a mesmer and give this a shot. I’ve only gotten him into the mid 20’s so far and starting at about lvl 15, even pve got to be fun. (still not brave enough to go into wvw without the 2h yet) Got the combo fields down pretty well, thanks for all the explanation. But I’ve looked everything over and not sure how phant regen it’s acquired. Is there some trait or ?? that I need to get them to cast this? So far, mine aren’t.

Regeneration comes from the 15 point minor trait in inspiration. I honestly don’t recommend this build for leveling, as it has so many high level trait dependent functions, although you certainly can use it, if you like the playstyle.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Fengist.5739:

I"m missing something guys. After reading this thread I’ve decided to lvl up a mesmer and give this a shot. I’ve only gotten him into the mid 20’s so far and starting at about lvl 15, even pve got to be fun. (still not brave enough to go into wvw without the 2h yet) Got the combo fields down pretty well, thanks for all the explanation. But I’ve looked everything over and not sure how phant regen it’s acquired. Is there some trait or ?? that I need to get them to cast this? So far, mine aren’t.

Regeneration comes from the 15 point minor trait in inspiration. I honestly don’t recommend this build for leveling, as it has so many high level trait dependent functions, although you certainly can use it, if you like the playstyle.

Ah, I must have missed it, thanks Pyro.

Yes, I realized pretty early on that lvling up, there was no way to I’d be able to accomplish half the things your build does. But, I’m old and it takes me a bit to get the ‘muscle memory’ in my fingers so I wanted to get an early start on training. That and I didn’t want to hit 80, dive into wvw with a completely different build and get kitten because I didn’t know what I was doing.

I thot at first I’d have to use the 2h to lvl simply for dmg output. But at around lvl 15, the staff and sw/focus really started to take off (that or I got better at using them). So well in fact that I managed to solo the champion jungle troll. It may not be the whirl and collect your loot bags my guardian is, but even at this lvl, I have no fear of diving into 4 or 5 mobs.

I’m still using the 2h when I head out to wvw simply for the range and knockback it offers (melee range in wvw at lvl 20 is rather suicidal even with retal) But, with what I’m learning in pve about this build… I have a couple of d/d ele’s I need to introduce myself to when I do hit 80.

Thanks for the inspiration.

This looks great. Going to give it a go this week. I am about to try your Phantasm build first and see how that plays and then I will be swapping to this. Need to farm some karma and tokens for the Exotic PVT gear, as I don’t have much gold and can only properly afford rares right now

alexparris.3754:

This looks great. Going to give it a go this week. I am about to try your Phantasm build first and see how that plays and then I will be swapping to this. Need to farm some karma and tokens for the Exotic PVT gear, as I don’t have much gold and can only properly afford rares right now

I recommend doing ac runs for the Pvt gear, if you aren’t one of those that equates dungeon running to flaying themselves with a spork (as was an analogy made earlier in this thread). Just make sure you find a couple people who know what they’re doing. Ac really isn’t very tough, despite the large numbers of people complaining about it. You can also get a nearly full set of Pvt gear from orr karma vendors if you have excess karma lying around.

Pyroatheist.9031:

alexparris.3754:

This looks great. Going to give it a go this week. I am about to try your Phantasm build first and see how that plays and then I will be swapping to this. Need to farm some karma and tokens for the Exotic PVT gear, as I don’t have much gold and can only properly afford rares right now

I recommend doing ac runs for the Pvt gear, if you aren’t one of those that equates dungeon running to flaying themselves with a spork (as was an analogy made earlier in this thread). Just make sure you find a couple people who know what they’re doing. Ac really isn’t very tough, despite the large numbers of people complaining about it. You can also get a nearly full set of Pvt gear from orr karma vendors if you have excess karma lying around.

Yeah, cheers- I have most of the karma gear on my guardian, so need to start saving for the Mesmer. I think I have enough for 1 piece at the moment. I have done a couple of AC runs in the past- I just get put off at the thought of skipping most of it and then it becoming mindnumbingly boring, but I guess I will just have to put up with it

Thanks for the comprehensive guide- I have always played a phantasm mesmer so will be good to try something else.

EDIT: Just to add, can this build work well in PVE, perhaps using zerker/knights gear, and moving traits/skills about? I would like to try stick with 1 build as such.

Oh, and the other reason I like this build so far… I have an 80 ele that I took d/d and nobody told me beforehand that you had to take crack cocaine to effectively play that build. This one I can do quite well with just caffeine and, I hope, achieve the same results.