Mirage DPS HYPE
(edited by Refia Montes.3205)
Helseth's review of mirage
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‘’Helseth, arguably a very good spvp player, barely managed to put a dent into a core thief.
’’
this made me laugh. Are the forums really this disconnected from how the competitive players are like?
I had close but losing duels vs sindreners daredevil.That’s not a random core thief.
Randoms, aka people like you, I stomped while qing, winning 2v1s etc.
Anyhow that’s besides the point.
Having crafted around I basically got this final verdict:
Mirage is dependant on two things to be useful. 1. clones and 2. Mirror shards.
Mirror shards are just bad and need buffs/reworks to be useful and clones will never be better than phantasms for pvp usage because clones die too easily. The concept of giving your clones survivability through evading for them is a cool idea but sadly not practical.
Chronomancer is still top tier and will be used in pvp so mesmer is gucci
Ok let’s say in a few months once we get a full handle on the entire elite & get a balance patch or two we should see Mirage’s full capabilities. I fully expect it to supplant Chrono in time.
Now this is assuming Anet will nerf HoT elites soon to make way for the PoF ones or considerably buff the PoF ones.
Personally I like that we might have each elite viable in it’s own way.
‘’Helseth, arguably a very good spvp player, barely managed to put a dent into a core thief.
’’
this made me laugh. Are the forums really this disconnected from how the competitive players are like?
I had close but losing duels vs sindreners daredevil.That’s not a random core thief.
Randoms, aka people like you, I stomped while qing, winning 2v1s etc.
Anyhow that’s besides the point.
Having crafted around I basically got this final verdict:
Mirage is dependant on two things to be useful. 1. clones and 2. Mirror shards.
Mirror shards are just bad and need buffs/reworks to be useful and clones will never be better than phantasms for pvp usage because clones die too easily. The concept of giving your clones survivability through evading for them is a cool idea but sadly not practical.
Chronomancer is still top tier and will be used in pvp so mesmer is gucci
Ok let’s say in a few months once we get a full handle on the entire elite & get a balance patch or two we should see Mirage’s full capabilities. I fully expect it to supplant Chrono in time.
Now this is assuming Anet will nerf HoT elites soon to make way for the PoF ones or considerably buff the PoF ones.
Personally I like that we might have each elite viable in it’s own way.
famous Azukas has spoken .
by his logic : coz mirage sucks now it will be better than chrono in few months maybe few balance patch which will be half a year or longer .
due to this unseen future , Azukas like we have mirage viable in its own way .
he is too true to himself .
but lets ignore all the issues mirage has .
what exactly is its own way ?
camping clones ? i thought you were against PU passive condi cancer?
but now you like mirage for its own way : camping clones.
or its own way is camping clones but without enough defense and offense so you can call it op to show how ridiculous you are?
‘’Helseth, arguably a very good spvp player, barely managed to put a dent into a core thief.
’’
this made me laugh. Are the forums really this disconnected from how the competitive players are like?
I had close but losing duels vs sindreners daredevil.That’s not a random core thief.
Randoms, aka people like you, I stomped while qing, winning 2v1s etc.
Anyhow that’s besides the point.
Having crafted around I basically got this final verdict:
Mirage is dependant on two things to be useful. 1. clones and 2. Mirror shards.
Mirror shards are just bad and need buffs/reworks to be useful and clones will never be better than phantasms for pvp usage because clones die too easily. The concept of giving your clones survivability through evading for them is a cool idea but sadly not practical.
Chronomancer is still top tier and will be used in pvp so mesmer is gucci
Ok let’s say in a few months once we get a full handle on the entire elite & get a balance patch or two we should see Mirage’s full capabilities. I fully expect it to supplant Chrono in time.
Now this is assuming Anet will nerf HoT elites soon to make way for the PoF ones or considerably buff the PoF ones.
Personally I like that we might have each elite viable in it’s own way.
So Mirage is fine as long as:
- it gets fixed some where down the road
- HoT elites get nerfed
- it does not get outperformed by PoF elites (you didn’t mention this one, I kindly added it)
Those are some very big IFs and WHENs.
Each HoT elite is viable in its own way too, just that some are more viable than others.
Personally I don’t care if it’s viable or not, I want it to be FUN. That Mirage is not. Multiple unfun mechanics on top of each other (and worse still: contradictory) does not a fun mechanic make.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
honestly this is not even surprise .
that heal skill lol requires mes stand still 3s in same spot basically suicide .
and what helseth said is for pvp
for pve like raid and fractal its even worse
Yeah agreed, it’s like well of eternity (but much worse), a PvE heal, because when does a mes stand still in one place for that long in pvp unless you want to get destroyed. I think only a few classes can get away with that, mes isn’t one of them.
Well of Eternity is a great heal in PvP :P It condi cleanses and has a really short cast time though.
I’ve rarely seen a mes run this or any of the other wells in pvp except grav well, because they are awful for mobility combat. I’ve tried numerous combinations of wells and it is obvious they were more made for zerg PvE or WvW.
Almost all Mesmer PvP builds use Well of Eternity. Just check out Metabattle, pro Mesmer streams etc.
Anyways back to the topic. The reason why False Oasis is bad, is because you don’t have most of the heal yet until 3 seconds down the cast time, Vigor isn’t much of a good boon to have, Mirage Mirrors are a hassle to keep track of, and the cast time isn’t as fast as WoE’s 1/4 second cast time.
Dude they really don’t. Only people using are new mes players who go to metabattle to get a meta build because they don’t know any better. I play a lot of PvP, and I see it rarely used. It is like the myth that all mes use portal, this is also rare these days, but not as rare as WoE.
Um…all the best mesmers use Well of Eternity. Its fast cast time, high healing, condition removal, and team support make it the superior choice for pvp.
The other non-elite wells were used when Chronotank was a thing, but they were heavily nerfed and are now rare.
Nonsense. All mes? Really. Not happening dude. Another BS myth. I don’t use it, nor mes I know who play. I don’t see it hardly at all and I have played about 500 matches this season.
I didn’t say all mes.
Sure, if best mes means 5 people then that may be true.
‘’Helseth, arguably a very good spvp player, barely managed to put a dent into a core thief.
’’
this made me laugh. Are the forums really this disconnected from how the competitive players are like?
I had close but losing duels vs sindreners daredevil.That’s not a random core thief.
Randoms, aka people like you, I stomped while qing, winning 2v1s etc.
Anyhow that’s besides the point.
Having crafted around I basically got this final verdict:
Mirage is dependant on two things to be useful. 1. clones and 2. Mirror shards.
Mirror shards are just bad and need buffs/reworks to be useful and clones will never be better than phantasms for pvp usage because clones die too easily. The concept of giving your clones survivability through evading for them is a cool idea but sadly not practical.
Chronomancer is still top tier and will be used in pvp so mesmer is gucci
Ok let’s say in a few months once we get a full handle on the entire elite & get a balance patch or two we should see Mirage’s full capabilities. I fully expect it to supplant Chrono in time.
Now this is assuming Anet will nerf HoT elites soon to make way for the PoF ones or considerably buff the PoF ones.
Personally I like that we might have each elite viable in it’s own way.
famous Azukas has spoken .
by his logic : coz mirage sucks now it will be better than chrono in few months maybe few balance patch which will be half a year or longer .
due to this unseen future , Azukas like we have mirage viable in its own way .
he is too true to himself .but lets ignore all the issues mirage has .
what exactly is its own way ?
camping clones ? i thought you were against PU passive condi cancer?
but now you like mirage for its own way : camping clones.
or its own way is camping clones but without enough defense and offense so you can call it op to show how ridiculous you are?
How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec? How long did Ele players complain that Ele sucks at release all the way up until the original D/D ele build was found? Same with Mesmers too.
It takes time for the player base to go through everything on a new elite to find the best possible builds.
I’m not saying anything but patience is needed here.
How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec?
None actually, we pretty much knew their power levels quite accurately from about 3 hours past release.
You have to remember, we’re not coming at this from the perspective of fresh players exploring a new game like we were at the beginning. We already know the interactions of traits, we know the flexibility of builds, we know how things work together. It’s not rocket science to see that Mirage is simply bad.
How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec?
None actually, we pretty much knew their power levels quite accurately from about 3 hours past release.
You have to remember, we’re not coming at this from the perspective of fresh players exploring a new game like we were at the beginning. We already know the interactions of traits, we know the flexibility of builds, we know how things work together. It’s not rocket science to see that Mirage is simply bad.
It’s bad.
Azukas is wrong.
~Mic drop.
How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec?
None actually, we pretty much knew their power levels quite accurately from about 3 hours past release.
You have to remember, we’re not coming at this from the perspective of fresh players exploring a new game.
This very same thing happened with HoT betas.
Once again patience is the correct action at this time.
How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec?
None actually, we pretty much knew their power levels quite accurately from about 3 hours past release.
You have to remember, we’re not coming at this from the perspective of fresh players exploring a new game.
This very same thing happened with HoT betas.
Once again patience is the correct action at this time.
Like you when you immediately declared Mirage OP based on the reveal video?
How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec?
None actually, we pretty much knew their power levels quite accurately from about 3 hours past release.
You have to remember, we’re not coming at this from the perspective of fresh players exploring a new game.
This very same thing happened with HoT betas.
Once again patience is the correct action at this time.
Like you when you immediately declared Mirage OP based on the reveal video?
Yes I’m still worried that passive AI is going to be OP. We haven’t even had enough time to play with Mirage to properly judge if it’s underpowered. Look at the Deadeye’s damage that is getting pumped out. People are focusing on that but not the true alarms that are the scourge & holosmith.
Look I’m excited about the power shatter build you can play. I’m worried about a passive condi stacking clone build surfacing.
Anet’s has a track record of creating a passive AI builds. Was there ever a time that a broken passive AI build has not been in the game? I’m hard pressed to remember one so please help if you can.
Why am I not surprised that he doesn’t think the Deadeye enough damage to 1 shot Champions at 1500 range isn’t OP.
Scourge and Holosmiths are strong, but manageable because they actually need to get in close to do their damage. They have counterplay that doesn’t require strict building around them. They also don’t have as many escapes as the Deadeye. The Deadeye takes all the worst things about thieves that dials them up. Not sure why Anet did this. It’s bringing thieves back to pre-nerf levels where they utterly destroyed pvp making it unplayable for anyone else. I don’t expect it to last. When a single profession decides the outcome of a match, Anet tends to lay the nerf hammer pretty hard.
Back to Mirage, it’s about as competitive as core mesmer atm. Although much harder to use. There’s no reason to choose it over Chrono, unless your bored of core and Chrono and want something else to play that is still mesmer. Deadeyes destroy all of them though.
Yep, Deadeyes popping out of stealth doing 10k+ damage in a single shot..
But you know its ok.. because we got those shiny mirror things… that…look coool… and when . you
break them….. they…..
ummm…….
what do they do again?
Dunno. Never saw one.
Why am I not surprised that he doesn’t think the Deadeye enough damage to 1 shot Champions at 1500 range isn’t OP.
Never said DE didn’t do enough damage. Only said Engi & Necro are worse.
Started learning the DE animations. Rifle 4 is easy to dodge now
This very same thing happened with HoT betas.
Once again patience is the correct action at this time.
Yeah but my patience is limited and Final Fantasy 14 is downloading sooo slowly. :<
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
(edited by Carighan.6758)
How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec?
None actually, we pretty much knew their power levels quite accurately from about 3 hours past release.
You have to remember, we’re not coming at this from the perspective of fresh players exploring a new game.
This very same thing happened with HoT betas.
Once again patience is the correct action at this time.
Except that people complained a lot about the HoT elites and arenanet gave them a thorough overhaul before bringing them live with revenant even getting a weapon swap mechanic.
You are literally contradicting yourself.
People are now complaining again hoping arenanet will listen and do a thorough overhaul once again fixing issues. Waiting and doing nothing is exactly the last thing which should be done.
That and with HoT betas they had a LOT more time between betas and release and they did 3 open beta weekends as early as 3 months before expansion launch (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beta).
So yes, if people are fine with being beta testers after PoF launches for the next 6 months (which we will be no matter what happens), then waiting is the correct course of action.
The best working and fun build people have found so far for Mirage is a power build (haven’t tried it myself, the reception on reddit was quite high). A power build on literally our condi dps elite specialisation where almost NOTHING says power with just about none of the Mirage utilities and sort of okay traits because useful utility skills is to much to ask for. Yipee, fun.
EDIT: took out my small jab at anet because balancing and implementing new builds and specs is a really tough job, I’m just still salty Mirage is so clunky.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
This very same thing happened with HoT betas.
Once again patience is the correct action at this time.
Yeah but my patience is limited and Final Fantasy 14 is downloading sooo slowly. :<
Azukas seems forgot what actually happened .
HoT beta : everyone told anet scrapper drone does not work , they still dont work today .
everyone told anet tempest is a lazy failed design , its still what it was in its core a failed support elite spec , anet just buffed numbers so people run tempest now .
everyone told anet trap doesnt work , anet buffed numbers to disgusting level , and traps still dont work today in pvp .
and we have reaper . those are half of hot elite , and he is telling us how see how it went last time lol
and lets see the good elite from hot :
DD : anent reworked many things , changed times and times until DD became what it is . their dodge got like 3 times major reworks .
chrono : well trait got buffed , gravity changed to an actual useful elite in all game mode .shield was one time block back then .and overall its design is very clear with many good traits that fix core problem of mes .
Druid : its good enough without Gotl . but pve people asked a dmg buff that just ruined everyone healing build .also Druid is brokenly op from start . It got so many nerf and still remain meta for past 2 years that does tell you something .
zerker : simple concept with a few op abilities from start .not much can go wrong with it .anet only fixed some numbers for its pve dps .
so only spec anet managed to fix is DD ,which took them more than one month more than one patch and their dps was low enough that no raid wants them for like 3 months or longer .
if buying heavily flawed production is what you call patience , then yeah we have to be patient.
Druid : its good enough without Gotl . but pve people asked a dmg buff that just ruined everyone healing build .also Druid is brokenly op from start . It got so many nerf and still remain meta for past 2 years that does tell you something .
That’s a different issue.
Grace of the Land: 10% Condition + Damage, 10 targets (Nerfed from 15%, target cap increased to 10 from 5)
Spotter: 7% Critical Chance, 5 targets
Frost Spirit: 75% chance to deal 10% increased power damage, 5 targets (effective 7.5% damage boost)
Sun Spirit: 75% chance on hit to apply 2 stacks of 3s burning, 5 targets (affected by condi duration/damage of user, 8s ICD)
Glyph of Empowerment: 10% Damage, 5 targets (50% uptime max with perma alacrity)
The only other profession to give nearly this many buffs (but not actually) is Warrior.
Druid healing is one of the only professions whose party heal skills got Healing Power scaling addressed (and subsequently overtuned) in addition to having too many unique stacking buffs.
What about other classes? What does the pros think of Deadeye for example?
How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec?
None actually, we pretty much knew their power levels quite accurately from about 3 hours past release.
You have to remember, we’re not coming at this from the perspective of fresh players exploring a new game.
This very same thing happened with HoT betas.
Once again patience is the correct action at this time.
Except that people complained a lot about the HoT elites and arenanet gave them a thorough overhaul before bringing them live with revenant even getting a weapon swap mechanic.
You are literally contradicting yourself.
People are now complaining again hoping arenanet will listen and do a thorough overhaul once again fixing issues. Waiting and doing nothing is exactly the last thing which should be done.
That and with HoT betas they had a LOT more time between betas and release and they did 3 open beta weekends as early as 3 months before expansion launch (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beta).
So yes, if people are fine with being beta testers after PoF launches for the next 6 months (which we will be no matter what happens), then waiting is the correct course of action.
The best working and fun build people have found so far for Mirage is a power build (haven’t tried it myself, the reception on reddit was quite high). A power build on literally our condi dps elite specialisation where almost NOTHING says power with just about none of the Mirage utilities and sort of okay traits because useful utility skills is to much to ask for. Yipee, fun.
EDIT: took out my small jab at anet because balancing and implementing new builds and specs is a really tough job, I’m just still salty Mirage is so clunky.
And on release how was that PvP balance? Remember season 1 in all its glory?
Maybe we wouldn’t have had as large of a power creep & kept core specs viable. Who knows? What’s done is done and lets learn from the past ok?
Following your logic bunker mesmer shouldnt be balanced mid season and instead it should had been given time for people ro adpat on it, looking for counters.
Cause bunker mesmer was exacly this. Mesmer adapting to the meta. People that couldnt do kitten with their mesmer because power shatter lost all his dmg and gimmick with pb, mirror blade bounce, PU, etc nerfs and couldnt sustain in a meta of bruisers.. Rev stackings all over, eles engies you name it.
Instead of going to qq all over forums and reddit like most does and since it doesnt work for mesmer, they come up with totally new build and role.
Its funny your biased logic only works one way.
How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec?
None actually, we pretty much knew their power levels quite accurately from about 3 hours past release.
You have to remember, we’re not coming at this from the perspective of fresh players exploring a new game.
This very same thing happened with HoT betas.
Once again patience is the correct action at this time.
Except that people complained a lot about the HoT elites and arenanet gave them a thorough overhaul before bringing them live with revenant even getting a weapon swap mechanic.
You are literally contradicting yourself.
People are now complaining again hoping arenanet will listen and do a thorough overhaul once again fixing issues. Waiting and doing nothing is exactly the last thing which should be done.
That and with HoT betas they had a LOT more time between betas and release and they did 3 open beta weekends as early as 3 months before expansion launch (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beta).
So yes, if people are fine with being beta testers after PoF launches for the next 6 months (which we will be no matter what happens), then waiting is the correct course of action.
The best working and fun build people have found so far for Mirage is a power build (haven’t tried it myself, the reception on reddit was quite high). A power build on literally our condi dps elite specialisation where almost NOTHING says power with just about none of the Mirage utilities and sort of okay traits because useful utility skills is to much to ask for. Yipee, fun.
EDIT: took out my small jab at anet because balancing and implementing new builds and specs is a really tough job, I’m just still salty Mirage is so clunky.
And on release how was that PvP balance? Remember season 1 in all its glory?
Maybe we wouldn’t have had as large of a power creep & kept core specs viable. Who knows? What’s done is done and lets learn from the past ok?
You keep being under the impression I’d be asking for buffs, I am not.
I am asking for fixes and reworks so the elite specs WORKS and is FUN. Fun does not equal spvp dominance for everyone you know.
Something that won’t be doable with some number changes here and there, that’s what balance is for.
Also while I agree to your spvp balance argument, you do have to realise you are talking about the absolute niche part of this game. If arenanet want’s GW2 to remain successful their first and foremost priority has to be pve, the game mode played by the vast majority of their customerbase.
Having working and fun builds there should be the top most priority. Rebalancing for spvp and wvw can always be done afterwards.
EDIT: to not be missunderstood since wording might be confusing. I’m absolutely for dedicated spvp and wvw focused builds (Spellbreaker is amazing for wvw for example). I do want these builds to work and be fun though.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
Following your logic bunker mesmer shouldnt be balanced mid season and instead it should had been given time for people ro adpat on it, looking for counters.
Cause bunker mesmer was exacly this. Mesmer adapting to the meta. People that couldnt do kitten with their mesmer because power shatter lost all his dmg and gimmick with pb, mirror blade bounce, PU, etc nerfs and couldnt sustain in a meta of bruisers.. Rev stackings all over, eles engies you name it.
Instead of going to qq all over forums and reddit like most does and since it doesnt work for mesmer, they come up with totally new build and role.Its funny your biased logic only works one way.
There were changes made to chrono during the BWE’s before HoT released. There were players who complained about chrono being weak. The actuality of The chrono was it was extremely overpowered and it wasn’t fully realized until after release.
The chrono bunker confirms my stance that we need to wait and see what happens on release.
Thank you
He wants people to wait because he knows Deadeye is broken as kitten and he doesn’t want to lose it.
He also has an extreme hatred of Mesmers possibly having fun in PvE even though it doesn’t effect him in the slightest.
Following your logic bunker mesmer shouldnt be balanced mid season and instead it should had been given time for people ro adpat on it, looking for counters.
Cause bunker mesmer was exacly this. Mesmer adapting to the meta. People that couldnt do kitten with their mesmer because power shatter lost all his dmg and gimmick with pb, mirror blade bounce, PU, etc nerfs and couldnt sustain in a meta of bruisers.. Rev stackings all over, eles engies you name it.
Instead of going to qq all over forums and reddit like most does and since it doesnt work for mesmer, they come up with totally new build and role.Its funny your biased logic only works one way.
There were changes made to chrono during the BWE’s before HoT released. There were players who complained about chrono being weak. The actuality of The chrono was it was extremely overpowered and it wasn’t fully realized until after release.
The chrono bunker confirms my stance that we need to wait and see what happens on release.
Thank you
I created and was playing chronobunker with supcutie in the 2nd beta weekend for HoT. This wasn’t something that blindsided everybody at release. Just because you didn’t figure it out until it appeared in metabattle doesn’t mean other people hadn’t either.
He wants people to wait because he knows Deadeye is broken as kitten and he doesn’t want to lose it.
He also has an extreme hatred of Mesmers possibly having fun in PvE even though it doesn’t effect him in the slightest.
I think he misses the point about Mirage being designed around a concept (lit: mirages/oasis’) and not a function.
Every elite spec is designed around a function, and some succeed at that function and others fail. The difference is that the ones that fail typically still have some odd value in at least one game mode.
Mirage, however, is in the fail category and currently offers barely anything due to contradictory mechanics.
To be fair (for Azukas) even with the failed specs, it took them (anet) a while to figure out how to make the specs useful in one or more game modes.
I think Azukas is saying that we might have to wait for a month after release to finally get the balance update Mirage needs. But even with that idea (if it does happen) it feels bad to have such a hot (pof) mess so close to the release.
I managed to have some fun with Mirage today…no really. Here was how:
1) No Axe (Sw+Tor / Scp+Pist)
2) No False Oasis
3) No Mirage Mirrors at all!
4) No Deceptions at all!
5) No Jaunt
So I ignored almost the entire concept of our “elite” aside from Mirage Cloak and the Elite that gives your Clones MC.
Jaunt is truly a sad joke of an elite. You spend more time trying to get a proper distance then actually Jaunting…because no matter how many times you’ve used it, in the heat of battle it never fails to surprise you how short the distance is. It’s very frustrating and mostly useless in it’s current state. (It would be better to have it teleport you randomly 400 units, saving me the slowness of ground targeting. That way you could at least just hit it 3 times in quick succession to clear 3 conditions, actually kinda deceive/annoy your opponents for a split sec, and maybe even catch some people in the pathetic AE of the Confusion.)
All that said I had decent fun playing selfishly in Pugs. I managed to win a lot of 1v1s and felt like I was a strong +1er, similar to a Thief. Not nearly as bursty, but pretty nasty nonetheless.
I do feel that Mirage has hope to make us something like a Thief. Just fix the duration of Mirrors and the Ambush window, and you add a LOT more tactical game play. Then adjust a LOT of the values behind the above mentioned list of almost totally uncompetitive traits/skills/etc, and we might actually end up with something decent. lol!
It’s not a lot of work really, it just a lot of tweaks mainly. I do not think they need to scrap the concept, and I do like the gist of Mirage in it’s current state! It does need a lot of boosts to Axe, Jaunt, False Oasis, Mirrors in general, all Ambush attacks aside from Scepter and Sword, Deceptions, etc.
Suggestion for Mirage Mirror, and maybe someone has said something similar before:
1) Obviously a duration increase, that much is clear
2) Do not tie it to “touching” anymore, but rather to our F5 skill. So when you create a Mirror, your F5 becomes usable for ~10 seconds to fire it off at will. With the rarity of Mirrors, I don’t see this being an issue.
That’s my 2 cents after 3 nights of playing Mirage.
How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec?
None actually, we pretty much knew their power levels quite accurately from about 3 hours past release.
You have to remember, we’re not coming at this from the perspective of fresh players exploring a new game.
This very same thing happened with HoT betas.
Once again patience is the correct action at this time.
Are we also factoring all the things ANet changed and number tweaking that went on between the HoT betas and when HoT came out?
There were a lot of skills that got changed pretty drastically for many classes before HoT came out because they were weak.
How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec?
None actually, we pretty much knew their power levels quite accurately from about 3 hours past release.
You have to remember, we’re not coming at this from the perspective of fresh players exploring a new game.
This very same thing happened with HoT betas.
Once again patience is the correct action at this time.
Are we also factoring all the things ANet changed and number tweaking that went on between the HoT betas and when HoT came out?
There were a lot of skills that got changed pretty drastically for many classes before HoT came out because they were weak.
*and had a few months to fix things.
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