Guild Wars 2

Until someone from ANet says that it’s not meant to work without LoS I will assume that it’s working as intended and is therefore not ‘broken’. It’s not like you can actually kill anyone with it who isn’t terrible. With a little luck the best you can do is down someone who waited for too long before stepping back from the edge with low health, but then their team will just kill the phantasm and help them up within 2 seconds anyway. The only way you can possibly kill anyone with this is if they are the only person defending the entire tower and theres nobody to help them up from being down, in which case what chance did they have of fighting off the entire attacking force anyway?

2-3 man Mesmer team killing you ? :/
Nerf mesmers.

Nerf Izerker?!?!??!

How about 1 or 2 shot it with autoattack/skills?

Are you trolling or are you just that daft? It’s hard to tell on the internet, so I’m just going to assume you didn’t think your reply through.

The issue is not with taking damage and dying, the issue is taking damage with no way to fight back. If I willingly jump down to fight those players then I will accept my fate, or get lucky and fear their noob arses over a cliff. However I should be able to make the choice of whether to fight or not, and until that choice is made I should not be subject to unavoidable and uncounterable damage.

Spawn points and their mechanics. Look them up.

Once again, the LOS bug will be fixed.

[Edit]

I know what your next reply will be, so I’ll just counter it right away: Yes, I could choose not to go into the EB underground area, and that’s exactly what I’ve done. Somehow I don’t think this is what ANet intended though. The problem is there is no way to know who is on the other side, and usually as I mentioned this is solved by making you untargetable at your spawn location, so that gankers can’t have their way with you unless you choose to engage in a fight.

In honesty, all damage should be blocked from being cast up or from those ledges.

nosleepdemon.1368:

Are you trolling or are you just that daft? It’s hard to tell on the internet, so I’m just going to assume you didn’t think your reply through.

The issue is not with taking damage and dying, the issue is taking damage with no way to fight back. If I willingly jump down to fight those players then I will accept my fate, or get lucky and fear their noob arses over a cliff. However I should be able to make the choice of whether to fight or not, and until that choice is made I should not be subject to unavoidable and uncounterable damage.

Spawn points and their mechanics. Look them up.

Once again, the LOS bug will be fixed.

Nerf every skill that can be cast up a wall and down a wall then.

Nothing is stopping you from attacking back, stop being so dramatic and overreacting, you simply target the illusion, kill it.

While the sentiment is understandable, keep in mind that siege can easily be set up by the JP portals. I ported through once and was immediately met with 3 arrow carts and ballistae, and there’s no way I could have fought back either, because the ledges are too far away to hit the siege weapons. So yes, my only option was to go down and hide under a cliff and wait for them to fight me or run away. I couldn’t choose, and it wasn’t a mesmer issue. It was a griefer issue.

Yeah siege weapons under there is also iffy, the issue boils down to answering the question:

“Is it fun being attacked with no way to defend yourself?”

And of course the answer is no.

ANet could either set up some elaborate blockades on those ledges to prevent people spawning in from being ganked, or they could fix the skills causing the exploits.

I reckon it would be simpler to prevent skill casts without LOS, and prevent siege weapons from being built underground.

i just have one thing to say even if i disregard all other points lol, all phantasms, berserker included have a long pause before it hits again… you can down one then…. you have defensive skills… you can dodge… lol it sounds like you’re immobile and the berserkers just hit u over and over without being able to do anything. that’s far from the reality lol, u can dodge the entire attack of the berserker if u wanted. its the same skill as a warrior… you might as well say warriors are broken because they use that spinny skill and if there were three on you, you are screwed.

Haha well the fact you disregarded all other points kind of demolishes your argument don’t you think?

Yes you can avoid the berserker. Eventually you will run out of dodge and defensive skills and you will be hit. Your HP does not regenerate fast while in combat so in the end it will be whittled down to nothing.

Something else to bare in mind – if it were just one Mesmer spamming the berserker I’d just jump down and send him packing over the nearest cliff with my Warrior, but it’s usually a group of them, in which case you have no way to defend against 2 or 3 berserkers and no way to escape.

In the case of keep sieges, yes you can indeed avoid the attack by running away but as LOS doesn’t block targetting, “running away” means leaving the battlefield entirely. On the other hand you could kill it, but the cooldown is short enough for it to be back up right after you kill the last one.

Ummm….maybe just autoattack the iberserker twice so you know….kill it? It attacks once every 8 seconds so have a lot of time to kill it.

How do you fight back against elementalist meteor storm? Engineer grenades?

Last night, I couldn’t target Trebs to kill them with my iBerserker but elementalists and engineers could easily AOE them down.

iBerserker is working as intended and is not even the best AOE of all the professions as it requires a target.

Grenades and Meteor storm don’t follow you far beyond LOS, they also need to be cast onto something that is within LOS.

It takes more than 2 auto attacks to kill it, and you won’t be killing it until it tries to attack you so you’re going to burn something to dodge it.

The berserker can be used to perpetually harass players while allowing the caster to remain safely out of view from retaliation.

My berserker goes down super fast if targeted, after its down my cd is certainly still recharging, although the cd seems fast. It totally isn’t, once my berserker cd is down and i run thru the rest, i have to swap weapons, my phantasms arent up fast enough. It’s not THAT fast lol

u have time

from my earlier post:

“Something else to bare in mind – if it were just one Mesmer spamming the berserker I’d just jump down and send him packing over the nearest cliff with my Warrior, but it’s usually a group of them, in which case you have no way to defend against 2 or 3 berserkers and no way to escape.”

oh god really?.. so 3 people of any profession standing up there would be just fine ??..
3 Elementalists 3 Warriors 3 Rangers 3 Necros 3 Engis ? The only class that can’t be lame at range with AoEs is really guardians.

Imagine 3 Necros repeatedly chaining fear chill and condi damage on you? Sound fun? Well they don’t need los, they can plop down a circle and you can walk into it.

Imagine 3 Barrage/5Bleed/haste rangers raining hell down on you with 9 spirits up, Sound fun?

3 Grenade engies dealing enormous Damage at hella range? How about that, Not fun at all.

3 Elementalists Raining Fireballs? ..

Imagine 3 Rifle Warriors bursting you dead in 2-3 seconds, How about that?

ALL of those scenarios are fine though, Nerf Mesmers because I can’t throw down an aoe or two to take out all 3 of their berserkers in a second and put them on a 15 second cooldown so they can’t grief me anymore, LONG enough to get out of combat full heal, and continue.

Why do wuvwuv bads think the game needs to be balanced around them?..

Darnis, those skills require LOS to the target area and so can be avoided by moving out of the red circle. The Berserker doesn’t require LOS and can be repeatedly cast at someone who would otherwise not be reachable by any other skills.

The unique nature of the Berserker LOS bug is best demonstrated beneath EB on the underground spawn platforms, where no other skill can perpetually target a player.

I realise that you must feel passionately about having one of your skills fixed, but you ought to understand that it’s just a fix, and wouldn’t affect you in any meaningful way unless you’re attempting to grief other players.

Here’s a hanky to clean the froth off your mouth.

Working as intended.

I have faith that with enough positive attention to the Berserker LOS bug, Arena Net will take notice and fix it inline with other spells. There will of course be griefers looking to exploit bugs in class mechanics for fun, that’s only natural, but it’s also only natural for these things to get fixed

Keep up with the bumps folks and hopefully the developers will take notice!

Iberserker is a 1200 range 15 second cool (for 99% of all builds) it is as far as I know the only phantasm that ignores LOS to cast.

You are ignoring the fact that you have to still get a target, and keep the target to continue casting berserkers, where as Ground target spells can be spammed forever without a target, either Keeping you out or Killing you outright, so what’s the difference?

The froth on my mouth stays as long as you don’t acknowledge all those situations are just as bad.

“Can be avoided by moving out of the red circle, Not really, Fear mark for instance hits as soon as you step on it, enjoy bypassing marked platforms while being feared off them.”

Working as intended. why would iBerserker be the only phantasm to not require LoS? in our best long range weapon?

The difference is that other AOE spells don’t actively seek you out and can only be cast so far into a keep due to LOS. They also cannot target the EB underground spawn platforms.

Unless you can cause your enemy to lose you as a target Berserker can be continuously cast while you are in range, which makes it far more effective at harassing than other indirect target abilities.

As you pointed out, Berserker is the only phantasm that ignores LOS and this is clearly creating problems.

The difference is that other AoE spells don’t have a miniscule health Bar and can instagibbed by anyone who can hit them twice.

Balancing a class based on a jumping puzzle is stupid.

Aaaand arenanet KILLED this spell Murdered it

It was a huge PvP nerf for the whole class.

Mesmer here and I totally agree with the OP. The fact is you can target and do significant damage to things behind walls. I have downed people from full health using shatter immediately when the iBerserker does the first attack. And all of that is AoE damage. Yes, those people are glass cannon, and yes when I use glass cannon I do that. But the fact remains that my other phantasms fail in that situation. If I could summon the Warden on the walls without it always failing due to line of sight, I wouldn’t have an issue with iBerserker.

It seems pretty scary to think that I am capable of a 7k iBerserker followed up with a 6k shatter on anyone within a wall and there is almost nothing they can do to avoid that.

I’m glad they fixed it.

Maybe now we see Mesmers with different weapons on the battlefields, not just 99% of them running around with GS.

Lame, bye bye mesmer for most of my time. Weak phantasms got weaker, huray for it. Now we cannot damage Castle Wall cowards at all. Lame.

Now we can’t attack walls properly.
Good job, whining squad.

“Working as Intended”.

Snoxx.7943:

I’m glad they fixed it.

Maybe now we see Mesmers with different weapons on the battlefields, not just 99% of them running around with GS.

And you obviously have no clue about mesmer class yet fell inclinded to jump in and comment about a class you don’t know. What weapon dmg does a mesmer have that will be effective in a siege? Feedback and Into the void are only things now that can be used and neither does does dmg . A very good chunk of mesmer dmg is based on illusions. So basically mesmers are now just portal bots. And even less effective now.

So our main damage skills that can be avoided way easier then other profs (you can dodge and kill them, instead of only dodging), got weaker? Thanks Arenanet way to go. And trust me this will introduce new PvE frustration. Now When a path goes straight up the berserker won’t move or will be stuck in a stone. Wathever. Saw it with other phantasms, now this one is bugged too. This exception made the phastasm a worthy skill. Now bye bye mesmer. Will only use for jumping puzzles now.

Moddo – You can’t fix one problem (Mesmer lack of siege pressure) by keeping or introducing another (Berserker LOS). I expect Arena Net will buff the class if they feel it has become too weak.

nosleepdemon.1368:

Moddo – You can’t fix one problem (Mesmer lack of siege pressure) by keeping or introducing another (Berserker LOS). I expect Arena Net will buff the class if they feel it has become too weak.

Sure so when is all other AE that does not need targeting getting nerfed too? I have been hit standing back away from leges all time in keeps. But people whine on forums about Izerk and that was one targeted for nerf.

This has to be one of the more entertaining threads on the forums atm. One person complains because he is too lazy to kill an illusion and all of a sudden pretty much the only damage a mesmer can bring to sieges is gone. He has obviously never heard of co-ordinated attacks or focussed-fire. Mesmer is BY FAR the weakest AoE class in the game having the smallest variety of fields and only 3 1/5 combo finishers if we time it right. What will it take to get Izerker restored, idk…

Saw the change after my post. Good change. I am happy to see it.

The people who wanted this nerf and are happy to get it don’t play mesmer as their main. If they say so then they are lying.

Funky, please read the thread and the issues people had before commenting. Once you’re done filling yourself in with the details we can go from there

I should also point out that the existence of this thread probably didn’t affect ArenaNet’s decision to fix the skill, as they probably put the patch into internal testing long before this particular discussion started. It’s far more likely that all the other players that brought up the bug / filed tickets are responsible for bringing the exploit to their attention.

Plasmon, surely you didn’t think it fair to be able to attack someone through solid walls? Perhaps you did, in which case I’m afraid that this game probably isn’t for you, as Arena Net seem pretty dedicated to balancing content and fixing bugs… Unless it’s the personal story of course, but they’ll probably get the story in the expansion right!

nosleepdemon.1368:

Plasmon, surely you didn’t think it fair to be able to attack someone through solid walls? Perhaps you did, in which case I’m afraid that this game probably isn’t for you, as Arena Net seem pretty dedicated to balancing content and fixing bugs… Unless it’s the personal story of course, but they’ll probably get the story in the expansion right!

I think the problem is more that lacking the Zerker, we are optionless – compared to other classes – when it comes to attacking players on walls.

From the patch notes it seemed like it would still pop up on the wall, but only if the target was within LOS.

nosleepdemon.1368:

From the patch notes it seemed like it would still pop up on the wall, but only if the target was within LOS.

Exactly.

I don’t get what all the crying is about. So now you have to use LoS like everyone else?

Um…welcome to balance. Sorry.

nosleepdemon.1368:

Plasmon, surely you didn’t think it fair to be able to attack someone through solid walls? Perhaps you did, in which case I’m afraid that this game probably isn’t for you, as Arena Net seem pretty dedicated to balancing content and fixing bugs… Unless it’s the personal story of course, but they’ll probably get the story in the expansion right!

I don’t see any logical reason why certain abilities shouldn’t be able to attack people through walls providing the attack is not of the projectile type. Evidently ANet have decided this particular ability shouldn’t work that way though.

So, I tested it in-game and it’s worse than you think.
Not only they’ve made LoS changes, they’ve made damage changes.
Unstated damage changes.
http://i.imgur.com/9X7BJ.jpg
700-900 crit in berserker exotics illusion damage untraited?
2000-2500 max traited?
It used to be 3000-6000.
Welcome to post-patch world.

Amen!

This skill has been balanced.

Redscope.6215:

nosleepdemon.1368:

From the patch notes it seemed like it would still pop up on the wall, but only if the target was within LOS.

Exactly.

I don’t get what all the crying is about. So now you have to use LoS like everyone else?

Um…welcome to balance. Sorry.

It is the ninja nerf to the damage output most of us are sick off, we had two damage nerfs to our illusions this round and we had damage nerfs last round also.

Balance dictates that uniform. At the moment, there is nothing uniform about Mesmers when they keep making these adjusts with broken traits and bugged skills in the line up.

Fix the spokes of the wheel first, then let some air out if over inflated to the desired pressure.

Thanks Chap.
A game mechanic abnormality now removed.

Now please fix stealth.
– Make it that any, yes ANY (maybe not dodge) action breaks it, not only damage.
That would make thieves l2p: “You miss your backstab, you’re screwed dude”
– In exchange, stop that channeling nonsense: any channeling ability should get interrupted if the target stealthes.

Anyone could confirm phantasm skills fail when evaded btw? I couldn’t get a single dodge on my casts in hot join…

Well if the Mesmer damage is too low you can always roll a Warrior, they never seem to get nerfed >.>

nosleepdemon.1368:

Well if the Mesmer damage is too low you can always roll a Warrior, they never seem to get nerfed >.>

Of course not, Jon Peters plays one.

RinKyu.4317:

nosleepdemon.1368:

Well if the Mesmer damage is too low you can always roll a Warrior, they never seem to get nerfed >.>

Of course not, Jon Peters plays one.

^ This and next time I think I should be smart enough to ask around what professions does developers play before I invested 1k+ hours into a profession.

As to the topic, the state of Phantasmal Berserker is now broken. The damage output is reduced by as much as 50% or more. More details can be found on another thread and in the bug forum. Mesmer haters who cannot bother to spend their precious time to understand the strengths and weaknesses, and overall mechanic of this profession before making misleading suggestions that inevitably got changed for the worst. I’m seriously disappointed in the deceptive approach by some players in this lovely community.

I have a level 80 Mesmer and I endorse this change, I doubt the intention for iBeserkers / iWardens was ever for them to be used to take people out without LOS, it was…broken. However they need to fix the ability miss-firing now if there is so much as a blade of glass between you and your target.

It was a bug change and is now working as intended(ish).