Guild Wars 2

I would like to see them get a 2 second flat cast time. I will still use them anyways because I like them but 2 seconds would help not get me interrupted as often.

I thought I noticed them casting even faster with the Mantra Mastery trait … have yet to test though … anyone else help? Maybe I was just tired and everything seemed faster ;-P

Due to the nature of spiritwatch you don’t get all of them cast before stuffs going down in the middle. It’d be nice if they were a bit faster in that small regard

Eh. Charging duration isn’t really a huge problem with Mantras.

I do like the charging time being below three seconds so you can charge entirely within the base duration of most of our stealth skills, but if you make it too low it will fail to fix any of the biggest problems with Mantras, remove what makes them unique as a skill, and push the potential AOE healing over the top.

If you ask me they should just add three seconds of Swiftness on beginning to charge a Mantra, either straight up as part of how Mantras work, as a replacement for a low level trait, or as an addition to Restorative or Protected Mantras.

Make it so that Mantra recharges 1 charge per 20 seconds. I often find myself on only 1x stack of Mantra left so I have to use it and wait for it to cool down to reapply to 3x stacks. Very inefficient.

I run a mantra build and I dont think any uniqueness of that build will be lost if 3/4 of a sec was shaved off the cast time. Its just hard to run a full mantra build against competent players. In a full mantra build you dont get stealth to prep a mantra. Maybe it could be stuck in the grand master trait. I hardly think dropping the cast to 2 secs from a grand master trait could lead to anything considered op. I honestly havent seen another mantra mesmer in person. Maybe this could make them more attractive.

Phira.3970:

Make it so that Mantra recharges 1 charge per 20 seconds. I often find myself on only 1x stack of Mantra left so I have to use it and wait for it to cool down to reapply to 3x stacks. Very inefficient.

this is whats wrong with mantras. having to waste charges to recharge.

Phira and Wads pointed out my number one frustration with Mantras. I think the channel time is short enough already, any shorter and Restorative Mantras will become overpowered.

If a trait like restorative mantras will become overpowered with 3/4 of a second shaved off the cast time then it is probably already overpowered and should be looked at. At the same time they can look into more ways to make mantras more attractive to build around, like the idea I gave of simply cutting a fraction of a second off the prep time. With builds being taken away every patch I would like new builds to have fun with while actually being on par with the top tier builds. Mantras are unique to mesmers so in my mind that is the perfect place to start.

Phira.3970:

Make it so that Mantra recharges 1 charge per 20 seconds. I often find myself on only 1x stack of Mantra left so I have to use it and wait for it to cool down to reapply to 3x stacks. Very inefficient.

Thats looks a good idea and I may even give mantras a try then. Until then Ill stick with the superior builds.

Why is it so hard to change the heal on restoritave mantras? Its not like the trait touches anything outside of them.

Phira.3970:

Make it so that Mantra recharges 1 charge per 20 seconds. I often find myself on only 1x stack of Mantra left so I have to use it and wait for it to cool down to reapply to 3x stacks. Very inefficient.

I think they should really just recharge per x second once you’re out of combat. It’s rather aggravating, especially if traited for 3 charges, to have to go through 2 charges, wait on the cooldown, and then recharge it.

Bit of a “quality of life” change in my opinion.

Sebrent.3625:

Phira.3970:

Make it so that Mantra recharges 1 charge per 20 seconds. I often find myself on only 1x stack of Mantra left so I have to use it and wait for it to cool down to reapply to 3x stacks. Very inefficient.

I think they should really just recharge per x second once you’re out of combat. It’s rather aggravating, especially if traited for 3 charges, to have to go through 2 charges, wait on the cooldown, and then recharge it.

Bit of a “quality of life” change in my opinion.

Cast to charge while in combat, but they passively charge out of combat? I like that idea…

Part of the problem is just the utility that mantra’s bring just aren’t up to snuff compared all our other utility skills. Even though mantra’s are instant cast, they still are a bit lackluster. If you can make them just a bit more attractive, you might get more use.

For instance…
Mantra of Concentration… gives stability and breaks stuns. Compare that to blink, decoy, or Mirror Images that all break stuns and provide utility. “Stability” doesn’t compare to those other stun breaks and has limited uses for a Mesmer in combat. Change it to “reflection” and breaks stuns and now you’ve made it way more useful.

Mantra of Resolve.. removes 2 conditions. This is pretty good, but Mantra of Recovery and Mender’s Purity just makes this redundant. Take a hint from our Necro friends and have it “convert” a condition to a boon and now its a different enough from our other condition removals to be attractive. Make the boons random and limit on what boons it would convert to, like maybe 5s swiftness (10 sec cooldown), stabilty, or might. Whatever.

Mantra of Distraction.. Daze your foe. This mantra is actually pretty good. An instant “daze”. Its just that “Daze’s” don’t seem to do enough. They are pretty much useless in dungeons/champion mobs. In PvP/WvW, there’s so much visual clutter its hard to see your opponent on when to execute that daze. And plus, if the enemy dodges or blocks or whatever, the daze does nothing and you’ve wasted your charge. Make MoD-Power Lock “unblockable”. If you think about it, why is Power Lock a “projectile” that can be blocked? Diversion is delivered by our clones, so OK that can be blocked. But why is Power Lock? If not, lower the recharge on this.

Mantra of Pain.. Damage your target. Again this one is not bad. It has a low cooldown which works really well with Restorative Mantras. If you up the base damage, you have to worry about Empowering Mantras making it OP. So there’s a fine line on what to do. It just that “direct instant damage” is not what the Mesmer is about. So why not make it more like the original Power Spike? How about it does X base damage, and additional Y damage if the enemy is using a skill. Have it reward skill usage/timing.

Mantra of Recovery.. Heal yourself. Nothing really to do here. As others have pointed out, if you do the math its our best heal.

Anyways, those are my ideas on making Mantra’s more attractive.

Mantra of heal is actually powerful with the 4th trait that has: heal removes a cond. giving your heal 3x cond. removal.

The problem is that the +1 mantra trait requires traiting 30 in the first tree to get.

YourOwnFear.2743:

If a trait like restorative mantras will become overpowered with 3/4 of a second shaved off the cast time then it is probably already overpowered and should be looked at.

The problem is Mantra of Pain. Because it basically has no CD, reducing Mantra channel time affects it much, much more than it does other Mantras.

My problem with Mantra of Pain is I don’t really see a use for it in a condition build … only in power builds. That irks me.

Sebrent.3625:

My problem with Mantra of Pain is I don’t really see a use for it in a condition build … only in power builds. That irks me.

Almost all skills are like that. It would however be nice if Mantra of Pain inflicts Confusion… its direct damage is low even in a Berserker build anyway.

Embolism.8106:

Sebrent.3625:

My problem with Mantra of Pain is I don’t really see a use for it in a condition build … only in power builds. That irks me.

Almost all skills are like that. It would however be nice if Mantra of Pain inflicts Confusion… its direct damage is low even in a Berserker build anyway.

It’s damage isn’t low for a berserker build. Especially when you can spam 3 instantly when traited. I know because I run it in my build and the damage is never something I thought needed to be changed.

YourOwnFear.2743:

Embolism.8106:

Sebrent.3625:

My problem with Mantra of Pain is I don’t really see a use for it in a condition build … only in power builds. That irks me.

Almost all skills are like that. It would however be nice if Mantra of Pain inflicts Confusion… its direct damage is low even in a Berserker build anyway.

It’s damage isn’t low for a berserker build. Especially when you can spam 3 instantly when traited. I know because I run it in my build and the damage is never something I thought needed to be changed.

It deals about 1800 critical damage under a Berserker build, which isn’t that high compared to the kind of burst you could get from other skills.

I’m not saying it needs to be buffed, but I do think it can have Confusion added without making it OP.

Embolism.8106:

YourOwnFear.2743:

Embolism.8106:

Sebrent.3625:

My problem with Mantra of Pain is I don’t really see a use for it in a condition build … only in power builds. That irks me.

Almost all skills are like that. It would however be nice if Mantra of Pain inflicts Confusion… its direct damage is low even in a Berserker build anyway.

It’s damage isn’t low for a berserker build. Especially when you can spam 3 instantly when traited. I know because I run it in my build and the damage is never something I thought needed to be changed.

It deals about 1800 critical damage under a Berserker build, which isn’t that high compared to the kind of burst you could get from other skills.

I’m not saying it needs to be buffed, but I do think it can have Confusion added without making it OP.

it’s a bit more than that, you can see from its base damage that it has similar damage to a max distance gs autoattack or mindstab, which range from 2k-3k.

the problem of using it for extra burst damage is for it to be worth it, you have to be in full GC gear, and you cant get away with not using decoy and blink in full GC unless you want to die alot.

you can slot it as a third utility, but that leaves you with 0 condition removal.

How mantras should work:

-You charge it once (long, regular cast time)
-It provides only one use on initial cast
-The mantra doesn’t end when all charges are cast, only on death,
-You only gain one extra charge over time, relative to each mantra cooldown (Mantra of Pain gains charges faster, Stability takes 30~40 sec for a charge, etc.)

wads.5730:

Embolism.8106:

YourOwnFear.2743:

Embolism.8106:

Sebrent.3625:

My problem with Mantra of Pain is I don’t really see a use for it in a condition build … only in power builds. That irks me.

Almost all skills are like that. It would however be nice if Mantra of Pain inflicts Confusion… its direct damage is low even in a Berserker build anyway.

It’s damage isn’t low for a berserker build. Especially when you can spam 3 instantly when traited. I know because I run it in my build and the damage is never something I thought needed to be changed.

It deals about 1800 critical damage under a Berserker build, which isn’t that high compared to the kind of burst you could get from other skills.

I’m not saying it needs to be buffed, but I do think it can have Confusion added without making it OP.

it’s a bit more than that, you can see from its base damage that it has similar damage to a max distance gs autoattack or mindstab, which range from 2k-3k.

the problem of using it for extra burst damage is for it to be worth it, you have to be in full GC gear, and you cant get away with not using decoy and blink in full GC unless you want to die alot.

you can slot it as a third utility, but that leaves you with 0 condition removal.

I actually use Mantra of Pain regularly as part of a PvP Berserker build, the damage is ~1800 when it crits. Note that this is per charge, so you get two or three shots of this.

In my build though I don’t use it for burst, I use it first and foremost for Restorative Mantras. Spamming it gives you excellent survivability despite being a Berserker build, and still dish out decent damage through Phantasms and any attack you can squeeze through Power Spiking.

If you really want to make Mantras more popular, actually add graphics and animation when activating them, not only when charging them. It really takes too much micro-managing. Needs better UI. Squinting down at my skill bar to find a small subscript to view how many charges I have left in the middle of battle is annoying.

Here’s a little clue. When you pick up a projectile from Mimic, you have a little glowing orb on your arm. Why not do the same with Mantras? Have some orbs on you, color coded indicating which Mantra you currently have, and the number of orbs indicates many charges you have left.

Just a quick edit. To counter the long cast time and fear of being CC’ed during them, change Mantras to be a channel instead of ‘all or nothing’. For example, if I’m half way through my channeling, then get interrupted, I should at least get 1 charge out of the 2, instead of completely losing everything.

I like one of the ideas above.

Combine Mantra of Distraction and Mantra of Pain into something similar to Power Spike or Cry of Pain (Daze + the original damage of Power Spike, with bonus damage if you interrupt an action.)

Of course, this means adding a new third mantra. One that grants one or two stacks of might, perhaps… that’s the one boon I’m always lacking in my usual builds. :P

For me, the problem with mantras is not the long cast time, but the fact that you’re usually iddle while recharging them. Ofc, you could use another mantra already charged, but maybe you’d waste charges on something you don’t want to use just to stay “active”.

The idea of recharging stacks each X seconds sounds right to me. Also I think that while you’re casting them, you should have a side effect other than the increased armor if you invest your traits to get Protected Mantras. Something in the line of Empower, form guardian’s staff.

Let’s say that channeling your mantras would give you a boon or a benefit each X sec.
Mantra of Concentration -> Recharges your endurance bar
Mantra of Distraction -> Inflicts confusion on being hit
Mantra of Pain -> Gives you retaliation
Mantra of Recovery -> Gives you aegis
Mantra of Resolve -> Gives you protection

I also think that traits should be a little more accesible. Having to invest that much points to make matras viable seems a bit too punishing for me.

I suggested that Protected Mantras should give you 1s Protection every second while channelling, but having a unikittenfect for each Mantra sounds better.

Recharging stacks sounds good, but may cause people to not use the last stack so the Mantra will keep recharging instead of going into CD. Instead, perhaps using the first charge of a Mantra will immediately start the CD internally. Currently you feel forced to use all the charges at once the start the CD quickly, particularly with Mantra of Recovery and Mantra of Pain.

Pollux.3247:

For me, the problem with mantras is not the long cast time, but the fact that you’re usually iddle while recharging them. Ofc, you could use another mantra already charged, but maybe you’d waste charges on something you don’t want to use just to stay “active”.

The idea of recharging stacks each X seconds sounds right to me. Also I thing that while you’re casting them, you should have a side effect other than the increased armor if you invest your traits to get Protected Mantras. Something in the line of Empower, form guardian’s staff.

Let’s say that channeling your mantras would give you a boon or a benefit each X sec.
Mantra of Concentration -> Recharges your endurance bar
Mantra of Distraction -> Inflicts confusion on being hit
Mantra of Pain -> Gives you retaliation
Mantra of Recovery -> Gives you aegis
Mantra of Resolve -> Gives you protection

I also think that traits should be a little more accesible. Having to invest that much points to make matras viable seems a bit too punishing for me.

I love this idea, Id say to rework protected mantra in something like this.

Pollux.3247:

For me, the problem with mantras is not the long cast time, but the fact that you’re usually iddle while recharging them. Ofc, you could use another mantra already charged, but maybe you’d waste charges on something you don’t want to use just to stay “active”.

The idea of recharging stacks each X seconds sounds right to me. Also I thing that while you’re casting them, you should have a side effect other than the increased armor if you invest your traits to get Protected Mantras. Something in the line of Empower, form guardian’s staff.

Let’s say that channeling your mantras would give you a boon or a benefit each X sec.
Mantra of Concentration -> Recharges your endurance bar
Mantra of Distraction -> Inflicts confusion on being hit
Mantra of Pain -> Gives you retaliation
Mantra of Recovery -> Gives you aegis
Mantra of Resolve -> Gives you protection

I also think that traits should be a little more accesible. Having to invest that much points to make matras viable seems a bit too punishing for me.

I like this idea a lot too.

Make a Mantra Elite: Each charge refreshes 1 charge across all other mantras.

Levitas.1953:

I love this idea, Id say to rework protected mantra in something like this.

ammayhem.5962:

I like this idea a lot too.

Glad you like it, guys.

I’m not sure I like Mantras as a whole. The whole “multi-use” system feels conceptually wrong to me. Don’t know why really, it just doesn’t fit what I’d think a Mantra ability would entail.

Really, a Mantra is just about being able to pre-cast the spell in advance, but “paying” something in return. In this case extended cast-time, but it could also be comparatively longer CD or a weaker effect.

Ofc I understand that a fully-frontloaded setup could be balance-problematic in sPvP, but… it feels meh.

I think I’d just scrap it for “Illusions”. Gain unavoidable benefit A for X seconds, then followed by unavoidable debuff B for Y seconds.

Can just change it competely:

eg: Mantra of Pain: when maintained, gain +300 power. Skills have a +10% recharge.

Allow us to cast while charging mantras but not dodge? just a stupid idea I had.

Sebrent.3625:

I thought I noticed them casting even faster with the Mantra Mastery trait … have yet to test though … anyone else help? Maybe I was just tired and everything seemed faster ;-P

That trait actually reduces the CD after mantra charges are spent, not the actual charge time.

Maybe a Signet of Mantras Elite: Signet Passive- Every 10 seconds restore a mantra charge. Signet Active: Refresh cooldown on Mantras.