Guild Wars 2

1- It’s autoattack is loud, hearing “BSHM-KSHMMM-KSHMMM!!” every second is not particularly enjoyable.

2- The range mechanic of autoattack is unfun. In a lot of situations (pvp or pve) you wont be able to get max-range damage.

3- Number 2 ability is nice I guess, but phase retreat is a million times better for clone generation. Not only you get a clone but pretty much have a blink-teleport every 6 seconds traited!

4- Number 3 ability is pretty meh… why is it a targetable ability? The AOE range isnt big, it should just instantly cast on your selected target. I guess Staff has also a “meh” ability with Chaos Armor.

5- Phantasmal Berserker is great, ill give you that. But its pretty much the only outstanding thing the greatsword has to offer.

6- Illusionary Wave… a push on a long cooldown with no additional effects.. Chaos storm is a million times better than this.

So overall, why people choose GS over staff? Am I missing something? Staff users also benefit a lot more from ilusionary elasticity (bouncing abilities bounce twice). Also we have seen people farm faster with staff than with GS, a staff user can kill multiple mobs much quicker than a greatsword user ever could.

I can see how greatsword might be “as good” as staff for PVP, the staff projectile is very slow.. but mesmer’s strenght in wuvwuv isnt in its damage but to provide awesome utility to your teammates.

Thoughts?

Well, though I’m not a fan of the GS myself, however there is a reason for why Anet put in weapon switching…… You can use the GS AND Staff if you wanted to or a staff AND something else.

Mesmer’s require a lot of weapon switching during combat in-order to be fully effective.

I’m glad I’m not the only Mesmer who’s still crazy enough to use a staff! I totally agree with you. In the first Beta weekend, I liked the GS simply for its look (a caster wielding a massive sword is pretty freaking sweet). But when it comes down to it the staff offers skills that make it invaluable in almost every situation. Teammate goes down in a dungeon, cast chaos storm over him and give both of you aegis as you rez him; a boss is about to one-shot you, use phase retreat and get out of range; the possibilities go on and on. I like the GS for the damage, but people should really give the staff some serious consideration. Every Mesmer I’ve done a dungeon with used the GS the entire duration of the dungeon. I always have the staff as one of my two weapon sets. Always.

1- It’s autoattack is loud, hearing “BSHM-KSHMMM-KSHMMM!!” every second is not particularly enjoyable.

I tend to use a lot of other abilities in addition to LAZER PEW PEW.

2- The range mechanic of autoattack is unfun. In a lot of situations (pvp or pve) you wont be able to get max-range damage.

Then use other abilities. I find getting >4k crits on my autoattack on lowbies in WvW to be very fun.

3- Number 2 ability is nice I guess, but phase retreat is a million times better for clone generation. Not only you get a clone but pretty much have a blink-teleport every 6 seconds traited!

Phase Retreat does 0 damage. Mirror Blade does as much damage as a phantasm (with Elasticity), gives you 6 stacks of Might (drool) and inflicts 6-9 stacks of Vulnerability (6-9% more damage for you).

Phase Retreat is a defensive tool. Mirror Blade is an offensive tool.

4- Number 3 ability is pretty meh… why is it a targetable ability? The AOE range isnt big, it should just instantly cast on your selected target. I guess Staff has also a “meh” ability with Chaos Armor.

It strips boons which is useful, and the AOE range is sufficient to nail stuff when it gets clumped up. Luckily the attack speed on it is very good now, so you can nail it at the right moments fairly easily. It’s more of a situational ability — it is used for the opportune moment.

For example, when you down a player and his buddy goes to rez him. What do? Mirror Blade → iB → Mind Stab → Shatter = now you have 2 downed players, one of which is almost dead, and you countered all the rez heals the second player was attempting, so 0 chance of the first player getting up.

6- Illusionary Wave… a push on a long cooldown with no additional effects.. Chaos storm is a million times better than this.

GS would be overpowered with Chaos Storm yes?

Also, the knockback gains distance where Chaos Storm does not.

In any case, if you don’t like Greatsword then don’t use Greatsword. However, don’t complain when your direct damage is low, because that is GS’s focus.

TagYu, I originally was using GS and staff while leveling, but it came down to this.. they dont synergize well toguether. Your staff will be your main source of damage, with that in mind.. sword + pistol/focus offers much more utility to compliment your staff abilities. Also focus swiftness is very valuable for leveling and get to places faster.

To the user defending GS, I am not saying is terrible… I am just saying staff has better offense and much better defense.

Then you don’t have a good concept of offense.

Staff is a condition damage weapon, so if you have no power, then Staff will win offensively (although GS will match it with Sharper Images if you manage it well and use a Rampager stat spread).

If you use a power build, GS basically does like 3x Staff’s DPS at a minimum.

For general PvE, using GS + Staff is fine — but Staff is not the primary weapon, GS is. You unload AOE and DPS with GS, then you swap to Staff for a defensive sequence (with bonus iWarlock for deeps). Then you switch back to GS for offense.

I prefer staff, but the great sword is pretty fantastic. It does like you to have power, so if you’re all condition and precision, for instance, it will seem a lot less exciting than it is.

Is there really a difference between GS and staff damage when having power? I feel like at least auto attack wise, the staff makes up for it with its chance to proc burn.

GS pairs well with sword for a direct damage / crit build.
Staff pairs well with scepter for a confusion / condition build.

Leveling up with random gear and traits, use what you like. But once you start optimizing gear and traits, one choice will pull ahead.

Skills and weapons got through buff and nerf cycles so I don’t pay too much attention to what’s top DPS today. What really matters is generally looking for a style and synergy that works for you.

The thing I love about staff is that it can be both a power or condition specced weapon that brings a lot of D/utility, but it works best at close range.

GS does more direct, reliable damage, but only if you spec for for power. And it can do that at mid-long range. Longer range has more damage from SS, but you get great stacks of might from MB at mid range. Both beat staff’s damage but don’t match its utility.

Personally I cannot decide what I like better. I’ve jumped back and forth between staff/GS/MH sword combos and each setup offers things I love. Staff is so much fun and versatile, GS does great ranged damage and power/might goes well with sword, and sword, well… it can pair with focus and nothing beats the damage of a sword/focus set when used properly (plus swiftness for travel is addictive).

Mechanics aside, you also have to consider the cool factor. Greatsword is just so much fun to play with because the animations are awesome.

I notice a big difference in damage output using a GS over staff running a power/crit build. For me GS is my main source of damage while I switch to staff for defensive needs or if my GS is on cooldown and my clones are all down and I want more up fast.

I’ve tried running GS/sword but I really end up missing the whole “swap to staff, poof I’m outta here”.

My ranger is a condition/traps build, but my power/crit mesmer just blows him away when it comes to pumping out damage.

Dracones.9105:

I notice a big difference in damage output using a GS over staff running a power/crit build. For me GS is my main source of damage while I switch to staff for defensive needs or if my GS is on cooldown and my clones are all down and I want more up fast.

I’ve tried running GS/sword but I really end up missing the whole “swap to staff, poof I’m outta here”.

My ranger is a condition/traps build, but my power/crit mesmer just blows him away when it comes to pumping out damage.

I agree I am using GS/Staff mix right now and the playstyle of the two works well together for me. Although I’m not 80 yet on my Mesmer so I may need to rethink that once I need to start worrying about gear. We’ll see…

Dracones.9105:

I notice a big difference in damage output using a GS over staff running a power/crit build. For me GS is my main source of damage while I switch to staff for defensive needs or if my GS is on cooldown and my clones are all down and I want more up fast.

I’ve tried running GS/sword but I really end up missing the whole “swap to staff, poof I’m outta here”.

My ranger is a condition/traps build, but my power/crit mesmer just blows him away when it comes to pumping out damage.

Me too. But my gear is precision/condition dmg/power/toughness and I use TA full set. Staff is all cond/toughness while gs is pre/power. I mix toughness so I don’t get one shot. Full glass cannon is not worthwhile if you die all the time.

Sometimes in dungeons, you have to use GS to clear trash mobs quickly. If you have another condition dmg class or 2 with you, it’s ineffective to use staff due to stacking issue. Condition also cannot damage structures, so you have to use direct damage, such as crystal imprisonment in CoE, unless you want your teammates to die.

You can pare staff with sw/offhand, but melee in dungeons can be dangerous. I switched to gs/staff, much smoother play and more adaptive.

In PvP, it’s a different matter.

Gandalf knows how to swing a mean two handed sword. I can’t wait to see Gandalf in The Hobbit movie strike down the great goblin with the Glamdring.

http://ompldr.org/vODk3dw/Gandalf.jpg

I don’t like GS either, even though it’s kinda nice. One thing I hate the most is iBerserker. Yeah, it’s nice and all, but I just don’t like how he spin all around. No control over him annoys me.

I’ve been using Staff and Sword/Sword for about a week now. I’ve never liked the staff, especially iWarlock, that much before. For PvE, it has been nice. I didn’t do any PvP yet, but I guess I’d prefer a GS for PvP.

In my server mumble yesterday someone was saying this and I was flummoxed I’m mostly WvW and if you don’t equip GS you’re seriously kittening yourself simply without iBeserker for breaking keeps/towers and chasing down enemies.

As far as the skills…

1. is fine because I’m trying to stay max range anyway.
2. is great because I run a might stacking sigil on my GS so… more might.
3. sucks.
4. is great because no LOS and cripple in WvW is incredible.
5. is good because who doesn’t like knockback in PvP. (Well melee doesn’t… but it’s saved me more than once)

In PvE, GS can really screw you with all it’s AOE so you have to be careful but that’s the only downside I really see. Your claim that you can kill MOBs faster with Staff than GS is highly dubious and I wonder how many people feel the same way.

Edit: did they really change g i m p i n g into kittening?

aaron.7850:

1- It’s autoattack is loud, hearing “BSHM-KSHMMM-KSHMMM!!” every second is not particularly enjoyable.

Turn down your volume. I barely notice it.

2- The range mechanic of autoattack is unfun. In a lot of situations (pvp or pve) you wont be able to get max-range damage.

Then switch to 1H Sword or use Phantasmal Berserker or use Illusionary Wave.

3- Number 2 ability is nice I guess, but phase retreat is a million times better for clone generation. Not only you get a clone but pretty much have a blink-teleport every 6 seconds traited!

Mirror blade is an OFFENSIVE ability. That’s why it applies vulnerability, gives you might, and has the chance to hit the same target twice, dealing damage and conditions each time.

4- Number 3 ability is pretty meh… why is it a targetable ability? The AOE range isnt big, it should just instantly cast on your selected target. I guess Staff has also a “meh” ability with Chaos Armor.

Boon removal is far too niche at the moment. Mind Stab is still serviceable considering how clumped up most enemies are though.

6- Illusionary Wave… a push on a long cooldown with no additional effects.. Chaos storm is a million times better than this.

Chaos storm is also the only good offensive ability on Staff.

So overall, why people choose GS over staff? Am I missing something? Staff users also benefit a lot more from ilusionary elasticity (bouncing abilities bounce twice). Also we have seen people farm faster with staff than with GS, a staff user can kill multiple mobs much quicker than a greatsword user ever could.

Because GS has far, far better burst damage. Probably the best burst damage of any Mesmer weapon. The reliable interrupt is also key for protecting downed players and securing kills.

mesmer’s strenght in wuvwuv isnt in its damage but to provide awesome utility to your teammates.

Speak for yourself.

I play a shatter build in tPvP 20/20/0/0/30, and use GS/staff. I switched to GS from sword/pistol. the knock back(5) is pretty key in contesting/defending a point or rezzing a downed teammate.

Personal preference that’s all. I use both.
To me, my offensive weapon is GS. Staff is more of a support than defensive weapon.
Staff’s condition dmg is pretty awesome. I use it for long term fight. GS for pure dps and quick skill. You don’t have to choose “between” them.

@Strill
Your simply incorrect regarding the burst damage one can bring with a staff. Don’t take my word for it… take the word of Xeph (TeamP), Winterfell, Flimp (gw2 guru)… these dudes don’t burst… they destroy other classes in seconds (side note: watch some of the vids floating you will see they can often match thieves in TTK).

Take note: All prefer Staff.

That said, I haven’t ruled out GS as a viable burst option. It’s just hard when Easymode is it’s only solid proponent (if Easymode is the Easymode from Rift pwning with warlock builds, I will concede that the dude knows mage class burst builds) and he hasn’t released any vids that I know of.

Really though, personally, I’m just waiting for some vids of pro players who prefer the GS. As the few I’ve seen that ‘think’ they’re pro… well they honestly don’t deserve mention. Particularly when vewied in comparison to any of the aforementioned players and what they can do with a staff.

suedetooth.3150:

@Strill
Your simply incorrect regarding the burst damage one can bring with a staff. Don’t take my word for it… take the word of Xeph (TeamP), Winterfell, Flimp (gw2 guru)… these dudes don’t burst… they destroy other classes in seconds (side note: watch some of the vids floating you will see they can often match thieves in TTK).

Take note: All prefer Staff.

That said, I haven’t ruled out GS as a viable burst option. It’s just hard when Easymode is it’s only solid proponent (if Easymode is the Easymode from Rift pwning with warlock builds, I will concede that the dude knows mage class burst builds) and he hasn’t released any vids that I know of.

Really though, personally, I’m just waiting for some vids of pro players who prefer the GS. As the few I’ve seen that ‘think’ they’re pro… well they honestly don’t deserve mention. Particularly when vewied in comparison to any of the aforementioned players and what they can do with a staff.

all those ‘pros’ you listed made those builds work in spvp. most people are talking about pvp in wvw situations. the two are vastly different. if nothing else gs has iberserker, which is the best skill mesmers have in wvw.

@Wads

If you think an SPvP / TPvP build is in anyway ‘different’ then the build you use when your in WvWvW you either:

A. Are a complete noob to PvP
B. ONLY WvWvW at ALL times with your 5 best bedroom buddies / guildes.

When kitten is thick in WvWvW and that thief just mugged you / you just jumped from that tower / keep that’s just been taken and are trying to hightail it to friendly turf. Well… better be able to cover that kitten with a 1v1 special…

And yes, rather than come to the forums and create that umpteenth thread: Warrior/ Theif hundred blades / Backstab my boo boo HELP! Sitback, calmdown and put on a Winterfell vid and watch how he pwns with a staff NAKED and take what you can from his Spvp vid and apply it to the times you will be caught pants down / by yourself in WvWvW.

Edit to Add: These staff dudes are destroying in 2v1’s and 3v1’s in Spvp where everyone has the same gear. Imagine the carnage in a 2v1 scenerio in WvWvW where the pvp is less egalitarian. haha

what are you even talking about, the main weakness of going gs as a main weapon is that it’s lacking in defensive capabilities. if you can make up for its weakness in other ways, such as a good choice of utility, runes, traits, then gs will always have more damage potential than staff.

those bunker mesmer builds with staff that let you sit on a point with 2-3 people trying to kill you works in spvp because thats the whole objective, to capture and hold a point. doesn’t apply in wvw. you want to maximize utility and damage.

for the record, i’ve never lost a 1v1 situation in wvw, even without having to use elites. and i’ve done plenty of 1v2 or 3’s using time warp, and have come out on top. sure if i was using a staff build, those fights would have been easier, but you lose the ability to chase, kill siege weapons through walls, burst, etc.

@suaedetooth

You’re not really advocating the same build for small scale and large scale PvP then calling others bads are you? Really?

Even if you did use the same exact spec you’d be playing staff completely differently in WvW, as support instead of as burst because you’re in the middle of a zerg (good luck shattering in 90% of WvW situations unless you’re running with a dedicated small group to skirmish). Speccing the same way for both when yourun into completely different gameplay is just kittening yourself.

Aside from that, massive burst comes from timing your shatters properly, not from the staff itself. You can get the same burst from running GS and timing your bezerker, popping clones for confusion then popping two more and immediately mind wracking. Nothing about mesmer burst is staff-dependent.

@Strill
Your simply incorrect regarding the burst damage one can bring with a staff. Don’t take my word for it… take the word of Xeph (TeamP), Winterfell, Flimp (gw2 guru)… these dudes don’t burst… they destroy other classes in seconds (side note: watch some of the vids floating you will see they can often match thieves in TTK).
Take note: All prefer Staff.
That said, I haven’t ruled out GS as a viable burst option. It’s just hard when Easymode is it’s only solid proponent (if Easymode is the Easymode from Rift pwning with warlock builds, I will concede that the dude knows mage class burst builds) and he hasn’t released any vids that I know of.
Really though, personally, I’m just waiting for some vids of pro players who prefer the GS. As the few I’ve seen that ‘think’ they’re pro… well they honestly don’t deserve mention. Particularly when vewied in comparison to any of the aforementioned players and what they can do with a staff.

Please think through what you just said. The only “Burst” you can do with a staff relies on shatters. Apart from Phantasmal Mage there’s nothing else on the staff that has any burst capability. If it’s burst you’re after then GS is better than staff in every way. Those people take staff for the defense. The burst has nothing to do with the staff.

suedetooth.3150:

@Wads

If you think an SPvP / TPvP build is in anyway ‘different’ then the build you use when your in WvWvW you either:

A. Are a complete noob to PvP
B. ONLY WvWvW at ALL times with your 5 best bedroom buddies / guildes.

When kitten is thick in WvWvW and that thief just mugged you / you just jumped from that tower / keep that’s just been taken and are trying to hightail it to friendly turf. Well… better be able to cover that kitten with a 1v1 special…

And yes, rather than come to the forums and create that umpteenth thread: Warrior/ Theif hundred blades / Backstab my boo boo HELP! Sitback, calmdown and put on a Winterfell vid and watch how he pwns with a staff NAKED and take what you can from his Spvp vid and apply it to the times you will be caught pants down / by yourself in WvWvW.

Edit to Add: These staff dudes are destroying in 2v1’s and 3v1’s in Spvp where everyone has the same gear. Imagine the carnage in a 2v1 scenerio in WvWvW where the pvp is less egalitarian. haha

Don’t be stupid. In WvW you’re surrounded by safe zones to retreat to while in SPVP you have to fight it out. The only defense you need in WvW is to decoy>Distortion. By the time it’s over you’ve made it back into a tower or behind friendly lines.

kk

1. I don’t believe I once mentioned a ‘bunker build’. I’m talking kitten of the face burst!

2. If you watch any of the vids of the players I mentioned: NOT ONE usees a ‘bunker build’… WAT R U TALKIN BOUT hmmm?

3. As to the weaknesses of the GS… let’s leave Easymode to extrapolate on that… much more credible than yourselfs…(no offense).

4.Utilizing utlities… Murdering Seige equipment!! Important stuffs in WvWvW!!!….zzzzz snoozing hard dude. I get it your a support specialist. Great! now pickup a staff and really support.

Edit to add:

@ Strill

Tell me about it! nothing better than consective kills while camping enemy realms entry because they ‘think’ they’re ‘safe’. haha… that is unless YOU ARE entering with your 5 bossum buddies. And if that is the case… stay grouped and stay safe.

And you obviously have not view the vids or are cluless. What makes the staff more ‘bursty’ are:

A. it’s clone generating ability is unparalled for mesmer weapons

B. The only shatter more bursty than a: phantasm of choice + dodge + sword 3 + sword 3 + sword 2 + F1 + mirror image + F2….

is one with Chaos Amour thrown in for tickles.

Soooo, you realize easymode was talking about why the GS is good, not bad right? Starting to think you’re on of these ‘i watched some videos, now I must spread the gospel’ types.

GS and dominance traits are great for vulnerability stacks. Really great.

I mean, if you can combo might stacks and vulnerablity you might increase your damage output around 30% , its quite a lot if you ask me, also vulnerability helps allies, which is good.

I neither like the GS but the first attack owns the staff’s one : more damage,higher attack speed – and related to projectile speed,and first of all the attack is splitted into 3 attack and that means more chance to proc on-crit effects (try with rune of rage!)

Really don’t want this to devolve into a petty squabble. But srsly for the uninitiated to WvW…. check out the comment by Strill about all the safe zones that surrounds one in WvW and it’s telling… the dude either has very limited experience outside of ‘Guild night at Stonemist’ or spends very little time in WvW.

I can assure you Strill: with 24 supply camps, 24 towers, 12 keeps and 1 Stonemist castle… opportunities for non-consensual pvp happen aplenty… my cup runneth over more often than not.

@ Cake

Easy dude… just trying to convey that one need only to perform a search and a wealth of info is just waiting to gobble regarding Mesmer burst. Text for you scholarly types or moving images (I just like moving images!).

I mainly WvW or just go about soloing. GS and sword/Pistol is where it is at if you use them correctly and understand when and what to use at the right times. I do like staff but I like Raw power/crit/toughness. I also win quite a few 2 vs1’s. Anyone cant put up a video.

I dont zerg, I run around solo or with a couple guild mates and destroy face.

I personally prefer the greatsword, though have found situations (like going up against mobs) when the staff works significantly better at taking down the group. I am specced out to deal lots of condition damage though (as well as in the Domination chain for GS abilities). I find that the two work very well together, and that there is almost never creature I can’t handle on my own. Mobs can still pose a problem though.

My mesmer just turned 62, and I love using the GS with her. Right now she has almost 13k hit points, 1284 power, and 22% crit chance; her range is a 1200 meters. I use the “pewpew” skill as a range finder before I fire off mirror blade (#2) and phantasmal berserker (#3). She is hitting for 1300 to 1400 points on #3 (slightly less on #2), and the blade simply flies from foe to foe in large groups (adding significant damage). I’m traited for extra life and damage on my clones and faster re-summoning with trait and more shatter options with signet of illusions.

I will try the scepter and torch just to see what that’s all about, and I regularly keep a staff in the second slot, but after seeing the sea of damage numbers when she uses the greatsword, I don’t know that I’ll even keep up the expense of a staff much longer.

With all the good from the greatsword, I could stand the “pewpew” noise, but, fortunately, it doesn’t bother me. Good luck in your search for a good weapon match to your playstyle; that’s what it boils down to in the end…:)

And you obviously have not view the vids or are cluless. What makes the staff more ‘bursty’ are:
A. it’s clone generating ability is unparalled for mesmer weapons

Staff:
base 10s, traited 6s.

Greatsword:
base 8s, traited 4.8s.

What was that about staff and “unparalled” clone generation?

B. The only shatter more bursty than a: phantasm of choice + dodge + sword 3 + sword 3 + sword 2 + F1 + mirror image + F2….

So you agree with me. Staff is totally irrelevant to burst. It’s all in the shatters.

suedetooth.3150:

Take note: All prefer Staff.

That said, I haven’t ruled out GS as a viable burst option. It’s just hard when Easymode is it’s only solid proponent (if Easymode is the Easymode from Rift pwning with warlock builds, I will concede that the dude knows mage class burst builds) and he hasn’t released any vids that I know of.

1. Probably a different player. I primarily played a Rogue in Rift although I did have a Mage first. Also, I don’t do videos.

2. GS has stronger burst than Staff. There is no question. Mirror Blade can hit as hard as a phantasm. Mirror Blade + iB > iW. MB + iB + Shatter > iW. Note that MB/iB illusions will be closer to the target than iW/Phase Retreat illusions. Furthermore, the GS trait is in the power line whereas Staff is in the Toughness line. Which will have more burst damage?

3. Staff is effective for sPvP because it is a tank / short-range kite weapon. In WvW, people are willing to run away across the entire map. Even if someone dives you and you “tank it out” with Staff, they will just disengage and run away. iWarlock gets obstructed in any siege. E.g. Staff is weak in WvW for these and several other reasons. About the only really niche for Staff is stalling an enemy push through a chokepoint with Chaos Storm. For everything else, it’s “meh”.

suedetooth.3150:

If you think an SPvP / TPvP build is in anyway ‘different’ then the build you use when your in WvWvW you either:

A. Are a complete noob to PvP
B. ONLY WvWvW at ALL times with your 5 best bedroom buddies / guildes.

[…]

Edit to Add: These staff dudes are destroying in 2v1’s and 3v1’s in Spvp where everyone has the same gear. Imagine the carnage in a 2v1 scenerio in WvWvW where the pvp is less egalitarian. haha

The entire WvW dynamic, gearing, and stat spreads are completely different from sPvP. If you’re using the same build for both, you’re probably a kitten^.

^ Although there is a chance that the builds are actually the same, it is unlikely. Hence it’s not guaranteed that you’re a kitten.

Strill.2591:

Don’t be stupid. In WvW you’re surrounded by safe zones to retreat to while in SPVP you have to fight it out. The only defense you need in WvW is to decoy>Distortion. By the time it’s over you’ve made it back into a tower or behind friendly lines.

Not only that, you also have “virtual” safe zones due to the player- and zerg-movements. If you are chased by 3 players, and you get your zerg between you and them, you are effectively in a safe “cone”, shielded by your zerg. The 3 players have to stay far enough away, so as long as you stay close but behind the zerg, you can’t really be sniped.

Carighan.6758:

Strill.2591:

Don’t be stupid. In WvW you’re surrounded by safe zones to retreat to while in SPVP you have to fight it out. The only defense you need in WvW is to decoy>Distortion. By the time it’s over you’ve made it back into a tower or behind friendly lines.

Not only that, you also have “virtual” safe zones due to the player- and zerg-movements. If you are chased by 3 players, and you get your zerg between you and them, you are effectively in a safe “cone”, shielded by your zerg. The 3 players have to stay far enough away, so as long as you stay close but behind the zerg, you can’t really be sniped.

Not to mention, most players aren’t willing to chase you across the map so even if friendlies aren’t that close by, as soon as you get out of range of the keep/supply camp/whatever, they generally stop chasing because they’re more interested in the objective than wasting time chasing one lone player that’s already ahead, good at getting away, and will likely not give them any types of rewards anyway. It’s pointless. sPvP and WvW is definitely different playstyles and different builds for most classes.

sPvP and WvW are very different, build-wise. Mobility is king in WvW and weapons like the focus can really come into their own because they push the zerg forward faster and can be spec’d for reflects, which is fantastic in the range zerg fights.

I use GS/Staff as my weapons. The GS has a lot of movement inhibiting traits, might, and boon removal that seems to work really well for me. I use a staff in my offset which i switch to when im traveling so a thief doesnt jump me and kill me before i can react, and so i can drop the chaos storm in all of the situations where its helpful, which are quite a few. Its too bad i would prefer the scepter/pistol|GS as my weapons but i feel defenseless

I have gone many builds since beta and primarily do WvW. I will say this, GS is the MAIN clutch weapon for sieges right now because of the way staff works vs siege/ keeps and not being able to see simple things like oil. Hell, right now you can even use it out of line of sight. You do not need the staff defensive capabilities in WvW(yes they are very useful in fights still). Staff is amazing in Spvp and can definately dish out dmg but it has to be played from a different way that does not work very well in most WvW situations.
To the poster saying your support if you kill siege with a GS, I hit for 5k-7k consistently, with a near very fast recast on Berserker that can hit multiple enemies and cripple.
Spvp and WvW are different.

Leiloni.7951:

Mechanics aside, you also have to consider the cool factor. Greatsword is just so much fun to play with because the animations are awesome.

Indeed. It’s a very interesting twist on a classic weapon.

I decided to try GS instead of Staff yesterday during an AC exp run. It felt awkward at so many times… I was pretty much asking myself wtf I was doing all the time.

I did notice that my first mistake was to always use iWave whenever a mob was coming to hit me. Then a Scavenger would jump on someone and since my iWave was on CD, making me feel useless. That was normal though, it was my fault for caring about such little hits, rather than saving it for more useful things.

Moving to the next skill, Mind Stab. Ok, it’s not too bad, I guess it’s pretty nice if I can hit more than 1 foe? Standing there for about a second makes me awkward, but I’d assume you get used to it after a while.

Then Mirror Blade.. I use a shatter build and I have Deceptive Evasion,

but Mirror Blade kind of made the trait awkward. I had way too many clones that I was pretty much spamming MW and CoF all the time… I guess it’s normal for PvE to have too many clones, since fights are slow, but good for PvP, since fights have more action and aoes around? Also, iElas doesn’t seem to do much for a GS(I think I’d prefer Reflection on F4).

iBerserker, as I mentionned in a post above, I don’t really like how random he is. Also, it seemed he’d do only 60% of what iWarlock would do(without conditions). I kinda like iWarlock more since he’s ranged, he has a better chance to hit, while iBerserker could die right after the first tick of his spin.. I don’t know..

Someone can get me to like iBerserker?
Also would like some opinions from others about Mirror Blade and Deceptive Evasion.

Feel free to comment on my gears too(if you looked at the spoiler), as I haven’t been sure about what I’m doing. (Maybe PM me about that, I don’t want to hi-jack this thread)

I just started with a mesmer in PvE and i can’t decide between staff and greatsword. For the most part, I never really felt the need to compare numbers or real scientific technicalities behind everything, but rather what i feel best with, what i am most skillful with and what fits my play style and strategy most. For now, I am running main staff with sword/torch as secondary. It seems to synergize great. But staff does indeed not have a lot of damage…

It just fits my play style and strategy more. With the GS i feel awkward i dont know how to exactly work it into play. It kinda just zaps and hits and does a bunch of things and is powerful but i’m not sure of its role exactly. It feels like a little bit of everything. With the staff i’m playing with a lot of tricks and kiting and interesting stuff, and then jumping in for burst dps kills with my melee sword and torch stuff. I love the torch as well

For GS users, what do you feel is / how do you describe the role of a GS in your sets in PvE? Not really what it does but for you personally, how does it affect your play style, weapons and strategies?

Qelris.6901:

I decided to try GS instead of Staff yesterday during an AC exp run. It felt awkward at so many times… I was pretty much asking myself wtf I was doing all the time.

I did notice that my first mistake was to always use iWave whenever a mob was coming to hit me. Then a Scavenger would jump on someone and since my iWave was on CD, making me feel useless. That was normal though, it was my fault for caring about such little hits, rather than saving it for more useful things.

Use iBerserker or switch to sword and use Blurred Frenzy instead.

Moving to the next skill, Mind Stab. Ok, it’s not too bad, I guess it’s pretty nice if I can hit more than 1 foe? Standing there for about a second makes me awkward, but I’d assume you get used to it after a while.

Mind stab stops you for a quarter of a second. Are you lagging?

Then Mirror Blade.. I use a shatter build and I have Deceptive Evasion, but Mirror Blade kind of made the trait awkward. I had way too many clones that I was pretty much spamming MW and CoF all the time… I guess it’s normal for PvE to have too many clones, since fights are slow, but good for PvP, since fights have more action and aoes around? Also, iElas doesn’t seem to do much for a GS(I think I’d prefer Reflection on F4).

Having too many clones for greatsword is good since greatsword clones do a lot more hits than other clones and trigger sharper images more. But I have to ask, why is this bad? Mirror blade is already a strong skill. It applies might, vulnerability, and has a good chance of hitting the same target twice.

iBerserker, as I mentionned in a post above, I don’t really like how random he is. Also, it seemed he’d do only 60% of what iWarlock would do(without conditions). I kinda like iWarlock more since he’s ranged, he has a better chance to hit, while iBerserker could die right after the first tick of his spin.. I don’t know..

Someone can get me to like iBerserker?
Also would like some opinions from others about Mirror Blade and Deceptive Evasion.

I just use iBerserker to kite, or when there’s no AoEs around. He’ll only die instantly if there’s a powerful persistent AoE. He should also be doing about the same damage as iWarlock to any given target.

Swap out Shattered Concentration for Greatsword Training. You already have GS and Sword for boon removal. Also swap Illusionary Elasticity for Master of Misdirection. The extra bounce is only good on staff and trident.

As for greatsword’s style, GS is a burst weapon and a ranged weapon. You can pop iBerserker, Mirror Blade, and Mind Stab all at once then switch to sword for even more burst, or sit back and spam spatial surge if you’re not safe enough in melee range. It has kiting potential with iBerserker and iWave, but I prefer to use Decoy for defense and save iWave to protect downed players.

GS is also the strongest AoE direct damage Mesmer has next to 1h Sword. iBerserker, Mind Stab, and Mirror Blade together can all hit multiple targets, and while their AoE range isn’t that big, there’s lots of situations where enemies clump up in very small areas.

The fact that you’re still rooted to the ground while casting Mind stab is the biggest problem with GS. Even though its responsiveness has been tweaked in couple patches back, half the time the skill would still fail to cast due to I couldn’t afford to stand still even for a split second in tough situations. This is not a “learn to aim” issue, and let’s not get into its small radius yet. I wouldn’t argue about its small radius as the devs have their reasons for that nerf back in beta but I honestly believe that Mind stab should be changed to allow you remain mobile while casting it like Chaos storm or Null field for example.

> I guess it’s normal for PvE to have too many clones

Um, shatter them then

As for mind stab, I honestly don’t even use it unless I want to strip a buff off my enemy. The damage on it isn’t that great.

Typically for me the GS is my opener. 2 and 4 are my lead ins which both hit AE and cripple/debuf/self buff the pack. Then I’ll mind stab as needed to clear enemy buffs and send in more 2 for my 3rd clone and more might. Shatter as needed and typically after your opening few moves is when you start to pull some agro.

At that point a 5 on the GS gives me some space and I switch to staff, lay down a field decoy out to distract and self buff armor and bring up warlock for another clone. Armor up for more defense as needed and after a 2nd decoy I can switch back to GS for another zerker and 2 for the clone/might/debuff stack.

The GS is the long range pew pew. The mind stab small rooting doesn’t matter so much because it works best during when you’re at distance, things aren’t hectic, you can see when the mob tosses up regen or something else you want to strip. If things are in close and hectic the GS is a crap weapon anyway. You lose the good damage on 1 and there are just better weapons for in close work.

Also, it seemed he’d do only 60% of what iWarlock would do(without conditions).

Berserker does about the same damage as Warlock without conditions.

I honestly believe that Mind stab should be changed to allow you remain mobile while casting it like Chaos storm or Null field for example.

That would require that the damage be nerfed.

Mind Stab does fully average damage in an AOE, along with a boon removal. That’s a pretty full package. Removing the quarter second root would have to see its damage reduced by half IMO.

EasymodeX.4062:

Also, it seemed he’d do only 60% of what iWarlock would do(without conditions).

Berserker does about the same damage as Warlock without conditions.

Strill.2591:

I just use iBerserker to kite, or when there’s no AoEs around. He’ll only die instantly if there’s a powerful persistent AoE. He should also be doing about the same damage as iWarlock to any given target.

I forgot on what I tested it, I think LA targets(?), but iBerserker would hit 3 times(out of 5?) for around 1k, while iWarlock for 1.4k.

Dracones.9105:

> I guess it’s normal for PvE to have too many clones

Um, shatter them then

Because I didn’t say I was spamming MW and CoF.

I had way too many clones that I was pretty much spamming MW and CoF all the time…

I just felt like wasting clones since my CDs couldn’t keep up.

Strill.2591:

Swap out Shattered Concentration for Greatsword Training. You already have GS and Sword for boon removal. Also swap Illusionary Elasticity for Master of Misdirection. The extra bounce is only good on staff and trident.

I agree about GS Training, but Master of Misdirection? I’m curious about your reason about this. I don’t have in mind that confusion is weak, it’s just comparing to other traits available, like Masterful Reflect, love that trait.

Strill.2591:

As for greatsword’s style, GS is a burst weapon and a ranged weapon. You can pop iBerserker, Mirror Blade, and Mind Stab all at once then switch to sword for even more burst, or sit back and spam spatial surge if you’re not safe enough in melee range. It has kiting potential with iBerserker and iWave, but I prefer to use Decoy for defense and save iWave to protect downed players.

I tried it again for 3 runs of AC, 1 of every path, yesterday. I grabbed Decoy as you mentionned and saved iWave for when I know I might need it to save an ally. I somehow liked it this time, I’m still not too fancy about iBerserker though. I will keep using it for a bit longer and see what happen. Thanks for the advices.

I forgot on what I tested it, I think LA targets(?), but iBerserker would hit 3 times(out of 5?) for around 1k, while iWarlock for 1.4k.

Last time I tested (a while ago), iB came out to around 1300 in a set of sPvP power gear with iW at 1500 with 2-3 conditions.

Could just be variance of testing, shrug.

Sidenote: It’s common knowledge that iB does the least damage to a single target (and actually has a low risk of missing one of the hits on a single target actually). The point is that it hits in an AOE, and that it applies Cripple.

Other note: Elasticity is a great trait for GS in a 1v1 type situation, or any smaller #s. The AI of the bounces seems to prioritize alternating enemy and friendly targets — the net is result is that Elasticity usually increases the raw MB damage by 50%, along with the extra 3 stacks of Vuln.