Guild Wars 2

JonPeters.5630:

Mimic
This skill is for almost all intents and purposes just not working, but is causing some broken behavior with certain bosses. I would like to replace it with a complete redesign and am open to discussion on that as well.
Jon

I know there was already a thread on this … somewhere, but I don’t feel like fishing for it. This new idea just hit me

Mimic: 20s cooldown – Swap places with one of your active clones. (900r)

This would be a swap that’s imperceptible to human opponents, allowing us to have that “deceptive” feel. I could see some interesting synergies with a lot of different weapons/builds with a subtle tweak while still keeping the “Mimicking” theme.

Thoughts?

Nope. Just gonna go ahead and say that. Mimic is one of our most underused, yet incredibly powerful utilities given the right mindset and creativeness. Changing it would be unfortunate.

I approve fixing it with regards to the boss exploit in FoTM, but as far as I’m concerned, Jon has no clue when it comes to balance, and that certainly extends to this skill.

For the life of me I can’t think of many situations where in it’s current form it’s all that great to pick over Temporal Curtain or Feedback, or a build that’d really maximize it’s effectiveness beyond the retaliation from Immortal builds. The concept of a 4s invuln sounds great on paper but you’re stuck channeling it in a way that makes it seem like a more cumbersome warrior’s shield

The thing is, I don’t think the invuln/reflect aspect was its intended use. And if it’s real purpose is to absorb one projectile and reflect it back, then its extra garb

Chaos Archangel.5071:

For the life of me I can’t think of many situations where in it’s current form it’s all that great to pick over Temporal Curtain or Feedback or a build that’d really maximize it’s effectiveness beyond the retaliation from Immortal builds. The concept of a 4s invuln sounds great on paper but you’re stuck channeling it in a way that makes it seem like a more cumbersome warrior’s shield

Mimic gets its strength from an incredibly low cooldown and a dual functionality. Using the skill basically turns you into a mobile shield for 4.5 seconds every 20 (if traited). You reflect all projectiles, you block everything else. It’s the single most incredible defensive skill that mesmers have, and it can produce some impressive results when used properly.

Edit: Look at it this way. Warrior shield stance lasts 3 seconds on a 30 second untraited cooldown. Mimic lasts 4.5 seconds on a 25 second cooldown, and additionally reflects projectiles as an inherent part of the skill. The trait to bring it to a 20 second cooldown occupies only an adept slot as well. I haven’t heard any warriors complaining about how shield stance isn’t very good…

Some ideas how Mimic could be changed:

• Mimic:
  3 Chaos-Orbs appear and clockwise rotate around the Mesmer for up to 5 seconds.
  When hit, each Orb will absorb the incomming damage, and reflecting it back to the attacker.
  Each Orb can reflects back the damage only once, and will be destroyed afterwards.
  As long as at least 1 Orb is active, the Mesmer receives Regeneration.

• Chaos-Armor:
  Chaos-Armor grants you swiftness.
  As long as Chaos Armor lasts, 50% of the incoming damage is reflected back to the attacker.
  In addition to that, every second you regain 5% of your total health.
  As long as Chaos Armor lasts near enemies will be pushed back.

That is true, but I’ve never actually seen it utilized well in practice.. I’ll screw around with it a bit more and see what kind of results I end up with.

If the idea of Mimic is for the enemy to own themselves with their own attack, maybe it shouldn’t be changed but rather improved. Why keep it limited to just projectiles? (which would mean a cooldown increase though =/)

Just plz give mimic Stability for it’s Duration. I will be very happy!

Nevhie.6079:

Just plz give mimic Stability for it’s Duration. I will be very happy!

That would be hella op. You can always combo the mantra with it.

Nevhie.6079:

Just plz give mimic Stability for it’s Duration. I will be very happy!

It already practically invulns you x_X

Jon Peters talked about how he’d like to see Mimic more supportive. Below was my idea back in that 12/10 patch thread. I always liked the block capabilities of mimic, but have never liked that an initial projectile block is required to get to those other three, and honestly always found it kinda cheesy that you can proc that first one yourself (which probably wasn’t the initial intent)

• Block up to 4 attacks. Increase the cool down to 30 seconds and make the duration 3 seconds.
• Whatever Mimic blocks, you do a non-OP amount of PBAoE damage and transform the blocks into aegis on yourself for 5 seconds, AoE if you blocked more than one attack. 2 blocks = 2 allies get aegis, etc.
• If it didn’t block anything, grant only yourself aegis when the skill ends. The mimic bubble blows up creating a blast finisher.

Some of that could be too OP.

Or … just leave it as-is, because to Pyro’s point, if used properly and in the correct situations, it’s very strong right now. I think some of it is surface dismissal and lack of really digging into the skill to see it’s true capabilities. The way the skill functions right now is really cool, and a couple minor tweaks to it is probably all it needs.

In my opinion it is one of the best utilities a mesmer could have, however, it’s also extreamly situational. It is almost useless against melee opponents.
If they could somehow make the first melee and ranged attack to get absorbed (and recieving it’s damage+condition) and then block plus reflect after, then I would use it all times.
Even if the duration would be nerfed.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Nevhie.6079:

Just plz give mimic Stability for it’s Duration. I will be very happy!

It already practically invulns you x_X

Exactly, so why don’t I see this skill used more in the not so prevalent mesmer bunker spec (honestly asking myself this question)? Most bunkers will take staff, so proc’ing the initial projectile block from your own WoC gets you the free blocks after.

I’ve been toying around with it in my frontline tanky builds. Usually I use it right when the two front lines meet—pop stability via mantra and then pop mimic while the enemy back line is casting all of their ranged attacks. I generally see a bunch of damage numbers fly, but I can’t yet decide if it’s more functional (i.e. provides more group utility) than null field.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

JonPeters.5630:

Mimic
This skill is for almost all intents and purposes just not working, but is causing some broken behavior with certain bosses. I would like to replace it with a complete redesign and am open to discussion on that as well.
Jon

I know there was already a thread on this … somewhere, but I don’t feel like fishing for it. This new idea just hit me

Mimic: 20s cooldown – Swap places with one of your active clones. (900r)

This would be a swap that’s imperceptible to human opponents, allowing us to have that “deceptive” feel. I could see some interesting synergies with a lot of different weapons/builds with a subtle tweak while still keeping the “Mimicking” theme.

Thoughts?

Id never take this over decoy, blink, arcane thievery, or feedback. NEVER.

I would take the current Mimic over arcane thievery or feedback however in a certain build. Though Id still like it amended.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

For the life of me I can’t think of many situations where in it’s current form it’s all that great to pick over Temporal Curtain or Feedback or a build that’d really maximize it’s effectiveness beyond the retaliation from Immortal builds. The concept of a 4s invuln sounds great on paper but you’re stuck channeling it in a way that makes it seem like a more cumbersome warrior’s shield

Mimic gets its strength from an incredibly low cooldown and a dual functionality. Using the skill basically turns you into a mobile shield for 4.5 seconds every 20 (if traited). You reflect all projectiles, you block everything else. It’s the single most incredible defensive skill that mesmers have, and it can produce some impressive results when used properly.

Edit: Look at it this way. Warrior shield stance lasts 3 seconds on a 30 second untraited cooldown. Mimic lasts 4.5 seconds on a 25 second cooldown, and additionally reflects projectiles as an inherent part of the skill. The trait to bring it to a 20 second cooldown occupies only an adept slot as well. I haven’t heard any warriors complaining about how shield stance isn’t very good…

Completely agree with Pyro on this. Post patch im going to put up a build ive been using which makes good use of mimic.

Leave Mimic alone!

Aniltiger.9186:

In my opinion it is one of the best utilities a mesmer could have, however, it’s also extreamly situational. It is almost useless against melee opponents.
If they could somehow make the first melee and ranged attack to get absorbed (and recieving it’s damage+condition) and then block plus reflect after, then I would use it all times.
Even if the duration would be nerfed.

Mesmers don’t really have any problems keeping range in a fight, anti-melee is actually one of the mesmer’s strengths. The same avoidance tactic doesn’t work for ranged attacks, so mesmers have some abilities that are specifically anti range.

Look at it this way, it’s about as situational as mirror or feedback.

Dammnation. Well screw you guys, I like the idea! =P

Your idea is nice – but to match it on mimic is just a little strange =D it has nothing to do with the old mimic effect =) hehe.

It would be awesome to have a phantasm which is placed manually somewehre wihtin 900range granting a fast escape. Like the necro warm.

Mimic should be like GW1 Mimic. So this is the description: “This skill is replaced with the last skill used by this ally. Ends after one use.”

I think in GW2 when you activate Mimic and use a skill, then Mimic should turn into this skill.
For example:
1) turn on Mimic
2) use Phantasmal Warden
3) Mimic turns into Phantasmal Warden
4) you can cast Phantasmal Warden again
5) Mimic recharges

I know it’s not the exact effect as in GW1 (it’s like GW1 Arcane Echo), but we need only a resemblance, it’s still GW2, not GW1

Sublimatio.6981:

Mimic should be like GW1 Mimic. So this is the description: “This skill is replaced with the last skill used by this ally. Ends after one use.”

I think in GW2 when you activate Mimic and use a skill, then Mimic should turn into this skill.
For example:
1) turn on Mimic
2) use Phantasmal Warden
3) Mimic turns into Phantasmal Warden
4) you can cast Phantasmal Warden again
5) Mimic recharges

I know it’s not the exact effect as in GW1 (it’s like GW1 Arcane Echo), but we need only a resemblance, it’s still GW2, not GW1

I suggested that before X)
But it’ll be better if they simply add Arcane Echo as a new utility. Double Chaos Storm returns!

==

That said though, if they must change mimic, I hope they make it work somewhat like thief’s steal, in that it turns into an ability according to the class of the target you mimic from, plus a mesmer twist

Some examples:

Warrior: Charge towards your target, up to 1200 range. If you hit, create a clone and teleport back to your original location. If you do not have a target, you charge forward 1200 range and does not create a clone. Inspiration: Bulls charge.

Guardian: Create a shield to block the next three attacks, if the shield isn’t destroyed, create a phantasmal paladin with a 3 hit hammer attack chain. Third hit from the chain does a small knockback. Inspiration: Shield of Wrath, Spirit Hammer.

Etc.

Heinel.6548:

I suggested that before X)

I didn’t find your suggestion here

I really like the swap with clone idea Chaos Archangel proposed. That would be so much fun in WvW juking.
Only problem would be making the change with a clone wielding different weapons.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Mimic gets its strength from an incredibly low cooldown and a dual functionality. Using the skill basically turns you into a mobile shield for 4.5 seconds every 20 (if traited). You reflect all projectiles, you block everything else. It’s the single most incredible defensive skill that mesmers have, and it can produce some impressive results when used properly.

In that case, wouldn’t it be easier to remove the entire mimicry angle? The entire premise of having a major defensive skill require being hit by a projectile before it begins blocking other attacks is rather absurd. Instead, we could simply have…

Mirage Cloak: gain distortion.

Exact same defensive function, no absurdity, works everywhere with the push of a button. Later on, they can revise the entire “mimicry” angle to allow the Mesmer to imitate an opponent by either stealing one of their utility skills or gaining a phantom version of the enemy’s weapon bar. An elite skill that transforms you into a foe would be amazing, but it’s a concept for another day.

Well it was my exp. Was using Mimic. Got enemy Projectile so it’s “Fully Charged” and blocked all melee, Reflect all Projectile. Then i walked into Enemy Static Field and got Stunned and i was like “Dude i’m supposed to be Invincible at this point coz already charged enemy Projectile”

Seems “Unblockable Interrupt” like Guardian Hammer #5 Ring of Warding, Engineer Magnet Pull, Staff EL Static Field can ignore Block effect. Probably adding Stability will make Mimic become OP but… It will be funny maybe i can mock other Class Block Skills like “Yo! I can block without being interupted by Unblockable Interupt” Hehehe.

Its functionality was supposed to be “grab an enemy projectile and store it to later blast it back at them”.
It’s currently used as an awkwardly implemented 4secs of immunity/personal reflect.

Assuming they want to stick with the spirit of the intended use of this skill, I propose that it absorbs all damage taken for a short duration(up to a cap), and then can be activated again to blast it back as some sort of Mesmer-styled projectile. Regardless of whether the damage is melee or ranged, it absorbs it all (only storing it up to a certain cap though) and then can be thrown back as a beam or a ball or a wave or w.e
This both keeps to the spirit of it’s original intended use, while also preserving the current community use, while eliminating the awkwardness.

I like the idea of swapping places with a clone, but feel it’s better suited to a mantra where you can pop it multiple times in a short duration before triggering the cooldown.

Cast Mimic on your enemy. Copy the next skill your enemy use [ignore #1]. Echo -> use that skill. Doesn’t matter if you get stunned now, does it?

DavyMcB.1603:

Cast Mimic on your enemy. Copy the next skill your enemy use [ignore #1]. Echo -> use that skill. Doesn’t matter if you get stunned now, does it?

“Scepter Stun!”

One of the current problems with mimic is its unpolished, like an idea made and implemented in early alpha that was never fully animated. So when you fire echo there’s no effects to go with the associated absorbed attack, except for a wave of the hand. This makes it feel very off.

Staling the next attack from a target would require a lot of animating. Id rather they just kept the current and fixed its quality issues.

I’ve always thought the intent of this skill is to punish people for trying to hit on you while you had it up. If that is true, I would make it something like the ooze skill in the thaumanova fractal, that ticks up stacks for each hit over a duration. At the end, it releases a projectile/aoe that is more powerful for each stack.

I have always wanted a skill that would let me punish an opponent for poorly timed burst (beyond just dodging).

I posted this in the december balance update thread and now here:

Hey here’s my version for a better Mimic:
First of all, think about what do the words stand for?

• Mimic: “To copy or imitate closely, especially in speech, expression, and gesture;”
  (source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ )

How can we put these idea ingame?
The word mimic would lead to the clones who would exactly act like you. It could be kind of a special buff that lasts for a short periot.
It could also say that you imitate your enemy so this would be another version of a skill:

• Mimic as a debuff/buff:
  Skilldescription:
  You copy the next skill your target is using. The skill lasts for 60s and has it’s original cooldown/dmg-factors/passive buffs/etc. (you can also copy a signet to gain the passives) After the 60s you had the “new” skill the cooldown will set to 25s of the mimic skill.
  debuff/buff -description
  The next skill you use will be copied by an <ally/enemy> mesmer!
  Range:
  900 -1200(with trait)
  Cast time
  0.75s
  Cooldown
  25s
  Additional facts
  Unblockable
  Debuff duration 5s
  Skill lasts for 60s
• Mimic for your Clones
  Skilldescription
  For a short time your clones will imitate all of your weapon skills.
  Cast time
  no cast
  Range
  1200 // i think that doesn’t matter here
  Cooldown
  30-kitten
  Duration
  5-10s
  Additional facts
  The clones will do the same skills but they won’t summon illusions!
  New clones are instantly buffed with Mimic
  The Mesmer is buffed with Mimic
  The skill of the clones will be the same skill as of the mesmer. Just with less power:
  e.g.
  A mesmer’s clones that uses blurred frenzy will hit 8 times but very weak the clone does evade and will trigger sharper images.
  When a mesmer uses a ground-targetskill the clones will choose a random spot.
  When a mesmer uses a skill like illusionary wave/magic bullet the clones will perform the same attack. Stun, Daze, Blind will be applied.

~ Me Games Ma

ADD:

Cast Mimic on your enemy. Copy the next skill your enemy use [ignore #1]. Echo -> use that skill. Doesn’t matter if you get stunned now, does it?

Sorry had this Idea already

~ Me Games Ma

It’s a weird utility. The actual described functionality of projectile capture, store and release is a bit wobbly, but the accessory functions are amazing. I’d hate for the block and reflect effects to be lost as it provides Mesmer’s with an interesting skill for triggering on-block effects, tanking and further locking down ranged builds.

The only thing that needs to be improved is the projectile release part which feels a little too cumbersome at present.

I really had no idea Mimic actuqlly blocked O.o. I thought people just meant block projectiles or something.

My suggestion from another thread, which is really outdated with this new information:

Alissah.9281:

[Manipulation] mimic -> Echo
Cooldown 30
Cast time: instant
Duration: 4 seconds (you (don’t have to channel it. It’s a buff + effect for 4 seconds)
Breaks stun
Mimic: “For 4 seconds, gain protection every second, and gain retaliation and stability on activation. When stun breaking or being hit by a control effect, absorb and store it for later use”
Protection: 1 second
Retaliation: 4 seconds
Stability: 4 seconds
(boons behave like normal boons, and thus are strippable and affected by boon duration)

Cast time: instant
Unblockable
Increases cooldown by 50%
Echo: “Echo your stored control effect at your target.” (it instantly reaches your target like power lock and power spike)

Something like this. Originally, I wanted it to pulse aegis instead of protection, but it would cause problems with the control-absorbing thing :P.

It would be usefull in offensive as well as defensive builds, while staying true to it’s original purpose and without being overpowered, I think :o

This suggestion was from when I didnt know it blocked… Sonits actually a nerf now >_>.

I still like a part of it though: mimic is a shield for 4 seconds, that is instantly activatable and doesnt have a cast time.