Guild Wars 2

Hi all,

I just thought I’d throw out some minor (one paragraph) improvements that I would suggest if I had the developer’s ear, in order to make this wonderful class even more fun to play with.

I’m also interested to hear what other wishlists for improvement might be out there, which is the reason for posting here rather than in suggestions.

Anyway, my suggestions would be:

• #1 – Change shatters into abilities that create, manage or exploit illusions rather than something that destroys the key distinguishing features of the profession for temporary gain.
  I think there are enough wonderful suggestions in this vein that I don’t need to revisit it in detail.

• #2 – Link clones to the Mesmer rather than an enemy, and make them disappear after 15 seconds (or when killed).
  Clones would always attack the target of the Mesmer’s last ability, or if that target is dead, simply follow the Mesmer’s movements. I think this would make more sense given their function seems to me to be deception and group support, not targetted damage, and I think it would replicate the fun of throwing up constant illusions (once the shatter mechanic no longer rewards you for throwing away your own DPS/deception/support).

• #3 – Make each clone decrease the recharge on the Mesmer’s first weapon attack by 8%.
  This would reflect the ‘Fast Casting’ attribute of the original GW, but also indirectly provide a damage increase to the caster while using any clones. Phantasms might ‘out-source’ a significant amount of damage to a hex/pet, but having some clones would still be beneficial as they empower your own attacks.

• #4 – Decrease the burst damage on some phantasms, then dramatically increase the armour of all phantasms against all damage except direct attacks from their linked target.
  As a hex-like creation, the person who is suffering the phantasm should be most effective at destroying it rather than a casual AoE blowing them out like a candle, and I think it would be preferable if the damage was more continuous (and certainly more proportional to the damage put out by the real Mesmer).

• #5 – Change mantras so that they are slightly ‘charged’ every time an illusion you create is destroyed.
  The energy of the illusion would return to you and partially fill up the mantra icon, until with enough charges you can use the instant-cast ability. As an optional extra, maybe the charging of an unfilled mantra could cause a minor effect on illusion death as well, almost like a ‘passive’ bonus for using the mantra. (Edit: Submitted to the feedback wiki)

Well, that’s my wishlist, anyone else have anything they would suggest?

Feedback is welcome too, as long as it is polite!

Number one is the best suggestion, has been since the class was previewed, and was begged for all through the betas, but Arenanet admits by their own word that they are too stubborn to even consider it. Pretty much anybody can agree that there is nothing deceptive or illusion flavored about spamming suicide bombers.

#6. The class mechanic is only clones. Phantasms are seperate, still illusions, but are now their own stand-alone spells unconnected with the class mechanic, meaning 1. They don’t shatter and 2. They don’t count towards the 3-cap. However some kind of balance might be needed, only allowing 1 of each type out at a time for example.

#7. Your clones actually act like clones, they mimic you, moving as you move, attacking as you attack, and dodging as you dodge.

I think things are fine as they are (as long as all the bugs are fixed), except that in PvP, the real mesmer should be harder to find. Enemy targeting should be broken upon clone creation (not just with stealth), and the downed state shouldn’t have a glaring red arrow over the real one’s head.

I’m very happy with the Mesmer as designed, I’d mostly just like to see bug fixes (there are so many bugs I don’t even think we can start talking balance until a good chunk of them are addressed) and a few tweaks to shore up weak/underutilized trait lines and perhaps some love for the Torch.

I agree, i like shatters and considering how fast you can create clones i dont see any problem in that. What i would like its more abilitys like Illusionary Leap/Swap, for example in greatsword mirror blade and many others. The idea of clones its that you are never sure if you are fighting the real mesmer or not and i think that if you can swap positions more often that could make it harder to tell the real from the fake.

In my opinion it would be nice if the Shatters were actually useful, i mean whats the point in having all the clones and such if they get destroyed, plus with traits and such that give up to 9% extra damage or 9% damage reduction you are less inclined to want to blow them up.

What makes it all worse for the ones that damage and give them conditions is the time it takes as they have to run all the way over there and if you are using Range ones that takes too long, it would be better if it was instant and that they shattered and like turned into “bullet” like effect and flew at the target rather then them having to run all the way up to them.

I also hate how they die as soon as a target is killed, that is VERY useless in group fights they should be out until they die not until they die or the target does as that only works in 1vs1 situations

I also think Mirror Images should create 3 clones rather then 2, it would be nice if they moved when you did and such, or make “random” movements as its VERY easy to tell which one is the real mesmer – its the one that is moving far to often clones will just stand there

Overall i think they are decent, shatters need to be reworked for sure into something that BENEFITS the mesmer as well as the clones/phantoms rather then destroying them

I would pick one single mechanic and make it the main. Not three.

If it’s clones, they would work like so. All clones have your HP, but last for a certain number of seconds. Clones are produced when you dodge; you blur and break target, creating a clone in the opposite dodge direction. All clones deal damage + confusion to their killer when slain automatically. The F1 key can command your clones to shatter, and this attacks’ effects are based on your current weapon (all clones swap when you swap). F2-4 keys govern clone behavior, causing their AI to attack, evade, or flee on command.

If it’s phantasms, I would give the Mesmer a pool of nine potential phantasms, with the ability to equip three at a time. Each would have a distinct appearance (custom armor set in dark purple to contrast with light pink body) and hex-like effect (no direct damage dealers, the mesmer herself would deal ~85% of the damage by default). All three share a cooldown on the F1-3 keys, thus allowing you to cast them unpredictably. Phantasms are fairly tough, but are designed to feel like spells instead of pets (the hex effect begins the instant you cast, then is maintained by the summon).

If it’s shatters, add different vectors to the Mesmer weapons. Right now, shatters require shepherding NPCs, relying on them to travel to the target, and then check for contact when exploding. This is absurd. Instead, every weapon would have a single illusion it creates, each of which acts as a different attack vector.
*Greatsword’s Mirror Blade flies out and back, then hovers in the air. It shatters as a projectile, but can’t be killed or targeted in any way.
*Staff creates an Air of Enchantment, a ground targeting zone which bursts on everything in the area.
*Scepters create clones, but when they shatter they cast hexes/beams for instant attacks.
*Sword summons a Mirage Cloak, a whirling scarf attached to the Mesmer herself, which creates point blank AoE effects.

That way, each illusion has a counter (dodge projectiles, avoid zones, destroy clones, keep away from the mesmer attempting to snuggle you), but no one mechanic trumps everything, and the mesmer has abilities designed to deal with many different situations.

These shatters would be activated by 3-4 keys (Dissonance, Diversion, Distortion, etc), but the effect would depend on the vector. Mirror Blades would impale their target for direct damage from Dissonance, but an Air of Enchantment would shatter into serrated shards for bleeding, etc.

In my opinion, they should remove the phantasms altogether, we are FAR too reliant on them. Then increase Clone and player damage to compensate for the lost damage (Pistol Phantom does sick damage) , Make the clones use the same combo of weapons as the mesmer has

So if they have the Staff equipped they should use Staff abilities (minus ones that create clones and phantoms) Maybe even have them doing the exact same attacks as the mesmer, just doing less damage

Though this would create the issue of what happens when changing weapon – maybe they could make it so the clones change weapon as well? or make it so that the amount of clones you had out get re-recreated with the new weapon set?

I Think the shatter mechanic should be totally redesigned, maybe changed into a phantasm sort of deal – like :

F1 creates a phantom that deals more damage then clones

F2 creates a phantom that deals little damage but causes confusion on special attacks – so it uses confusion then its given a cool down, say 10 seconds and in that time it casts a basic attack (based on Mesmer weapon),

F3 Creates a phantom that just like F2 but causes Daze instead of confusion

F4 creates a phantom that deals no damage but takes all the damage that the mesmer would have taken for X number of seconds

I’m pretty happy with the Mesmer. I think it’s a real diamond, though still in need of some polishing.

I’d like to see Shatters be much, much more responsive than they are now; having your illusions get stuck in the terrain, stand there for five seconds and then explode without dealing damage is terrible.

I’d also add in two new weapons, a main-hand ranged weapon that deals direct damage (I hate using the Scepter but on some encounters I feel like there’s no other choice), and I’d add in a weapon that allows for some AoE burst damage to make farming end-game DE’s less of a chore.

But, by and large, I’m not overly upset with the Mesmer and like it well enough.

AnubisXy.5713:

I’d also add in two new weapons, a main-hand ranged weapon that deals direct damage

Dual Pistol Mesmer would be SICK!

I believe some people are misunderstanding when they say like the system would change. The Mesmer is GREAT as it is, it just need some polished. Some skills (the Mantras are the most visible example) seems to be unfinished in a way. Mantras, most of the time, come with wrong nomination or tooltips.

Beside that, the signature of the Mesmer, imo, is that he is the master of the battlefield, the big chess player, you generate stuff quickly, you react quickly and in many different ways you mess with your opponents. You can give insane support/debuff, bring great utility and even dish out some crazy damage, you just need to adaptate yourself and your character. I’ve played a Warrior up to lvl and I can say it’s a wrecking ball. The Mesmer is not like this, it is a class that need patience, strategy and mainly adaptation to everything.

What I think that really needs to be polished is the Mantra mechanism for sure, and the Shatters Skills responses, they are pretty sucky right now.Besides that Mesmer is the #1 class from far, and there’s nothing to be changed on it as a whole.

Sorry for any mistake, english is not my native english. Peace guys!

PS: Main Hand Pistol would look really nice, I have to admit!

Tbh i dont know how anyone can consider 3 dazes (if you spread you clones they can shater at diferent times dazing theyr target 3 times for 1 sec each) or 3 (4 if traited) second of invulnerablility useless…. Even more when you can cast it in the middle of another cast without breaking it.
The thing with mesmers its almost every skill they have seems to be situational and you have to decide really fast what would be best to use. Dont get me wrong its also the fun part.

Dess.4391:

Tbh i dont know how anyone can consider 3 dazes (if you spread you clones they can shater at diferent times dazing theyr target 3 times for 1 sec each) or 3 (4 if traited) second of invulnerablility useless…. Even more when you can cast it in the middle of another cast without breaking it.
The thing with mesmers its almost every skill they have seems to be situational and you have to decide really fast what would be best to use. Dont get me wrong its also the fun part.

The problem being that:

1. Mesmers are far too reliant on phantoms for doing damage, plus we get if trait-ed 9% extra damage increase as well as 9% damage reduction with 3 clones/phantoms out…why would/should we have to remove that for the class mechanic?

2. Shattering doesnt always work, some times they get stuck in the ground and such and take to long to find the target and shatter

Sure, confuse and distortion are both great abilities however – they are very situational and require losing ALOT of dps and such in order to get them, are they worth it? in my opinion…No.

I hope the scepter skill 2 (after block to produce a clone) and the skill 3 can response faster, just like the Greatsword skill 1 and 3.

IMO the entire class needs a basic rework. What we have is not what was promised (would appeal to GW1 Mesmer players, phantasms as Living Hexes, etc). Honestly, the GW2 Mesmer feels more like a minion-bomber Necro then the GW1 Mes. Since it’s already released, and thousands of people are vested in the class as it stands, I don’t think we’ll ever see this. I’ll go ahead and list why it doesn’t click for this old mesmer player though:

1. GW2’s “Control” mechanics are, universally, not so much controlling as they are disrupting. There’s lots of ways to prevent your opponent from acting- daze, knockdown, etc. There’s no way to compel your opponent to act. Backfire, the classic GW1 example, forced a player to stop casting spells, eat the damage, act to remove the hex, or rely on teammates to remove the hex, or use non-spell abilities until it wore off. Because it had a narrow focus of effect, it had a narrow response. Predicting and exploiting that response is what made the Mesmer class.

Confusion, by comparison, is not only very short (so there’s little incentive to act against it rather then waiting it out), but affects all actions. Period. Even the autoattack. Ultimately, this makes it little more then another DPS condition.

2. The Mesmer relies far to much on NPC entities for it’s damage. Shatter or phantasms aside, they both require shifting much of your gameplay off to an NPC. One in order to sacrifice like a living combo point, the other as a traditional DPS pet. This makes the Mesmer a pet class, although admittedly a unique one. This is where the living hex idea fits in- as promised, our play would not have centered on our pets, but on using their effects to manipulate or foe while we set up for the killing combo. That’s not what they are now.

Both of these issues can be addressed by revisiting phantasms. A return to the at-reveal concept of phant’s as living hexes could return the mesmer to a manipulative gameplay style with minimal fuss. Damage needs to be shifted back to the PC; Phantasms need to be more varied and given a narrowly targeted effected (some random examples: a phantasm with a mobile ethereal combo field; A phantasm that strikes the target only when they damage a foe; another that punishes healing; a phantasm that knocks down immobile foes; hopefully you get the idea).

Lastly, shatter needs to be more precise. Right now it’s dependent on clone positioning, which depends on NPC AI. Again, feels like a pet class here. I admit I have no good ideas on this one. Perhaps make shattering specific to clones only so it doesn’t interfere with phantasms, perhaps have clones apply a stacking condition that is consumed for effect; neither of those sounds like a solution to me but it’s an idea I guess.

tl;dr
RIP, Gw1 Mesmer. We miss you. Anet, please bring them back.

1st i would want to get class breaking bugs being fixed like

• marking. it makes all clones useless(unless you are shater build) and only way to remove it is to go in stealth with torch or utility skill.(it should mark all clones to). or some mechanism to transfer it to clones without enemies seeing it.
• clones have full hp on spawn. they should have same % hp as mesmar. so atleast at the moment of spawn they look atleast like the real mesmar
• swords 3 skills. it doesnt spawn the clone a lot of times and it tends to get stuck in tetrain a lot even if it has the slightest bump.
• greatswords 5 doest work if there is sligtest bump in tetrain between you and the target
• greatswords 5 seems not to work against target that is in skills animation(this ones needs more testing)

for improvements i only want

• ability to shater specific illusion.(the round illusion count thingy would need to show some icon that would tell if the illusion is phantasm or clone. or just show skill that spawned that illusion)

my idea of the way it works would be. f1-f3 selects a illusion. f4 all illusions.
then my skillbar changes into “clone skill bar” 1-4 skills 5 exit clone bar

I might be the only one, but I kind of like the idea behind shatter, tossing away your illusions and your psychological defences for an immediate payoff.
But I would like a new form of “Shatters” to something more like this:

F1 – Shatter
Shatter your illusions, destroying them in exchange for a powerful, final effect.

Clones: Moves towards your current target and explode, dealing damage.

Phantasmal Warlock: Fires a final bolt of energy at your current target, dealing damage based on the number of conditions on the foe and making them vulnerable. Bounces twice. Projectile Finisher.

Phantasmal Berserker: Blinks to your current target and detonates violently, dealing large damage and knocking enemies down. Blast Finisher.

Phantasmal Swordsman: Sacrifices itself to grant the Mesmer fury and several stacks of might for 10 seconds, compounds in duration per active Swordsman at time of Shatter.

Phantasmal Warden: Sacrifices itself to place a bubble in a large area around the Mesmer’s feet, applying Aegis to all within it every few seconds, compounds in duration per active Warden at time of Shatter. Combo Field: Ethereal.

Phantasmal Duelist: Fires off a Magic Bullet at your current target. Multiple duelists will stagger their Magic Bullet shots with a 1 second delay each, allowing a maximum of 4 seconds of stun.

Phantasmal Mage: Blinks to your current target and detonates, applying 2 stacks of confusion to all nearby enemies.

Illusionary Mariner: Sacrifices itself, granting Quickness to the Mesmer for 2 seconds. Compounds per active Mariner at time of Shatter.

Illusionary Whaler: Fires an illusory harpoon at the target enemy, applying several stacks of bleed and bouncing to nearby enemies.

Phantasmal Disenchanter: Sacrifices itself, purging all conditions from the mesmer. Grants an additional 1 second of Condition Immunity per additional active Disenchanter.

Phantasmal Guardian: Sacrifices itself, granting 2 stacks of aegis to the mesmer per Guardian active at time of shatter.

Phantasmal Rogue: Shadowsteps to your current target and backstabs them, dealing high damage and dazing.

You get the idea, and to obviously save on tooltip space, the Shatter effect of each phantasm would be listed in the Phantasm’s tooltip, not the Shatter tooltip.
Numbers probably need tweaking, hence the reason I added few tweaks at all.
The idea is that shattering your Phantasms is no longer treated equally to shattering clones, Phantasms really should offer a greater effect.
This also allows a much greater variation between phantasms. I mean, the only real difference between Phantasmal Warlock and Phantasmal Duelist when it comes down to it is the rate of fire.
Cooldown is unlisted for balance reasons.

The following are my ideas for how the F2-4 keys should function.

F2 – Shuffle
The Mesmer immediately swaps location with one of his clones, randomly. He and all of his clones experience the same particle effect (Most likely that of blink) to hide the Mesmer’s new location.

I think this would just be great for the confusion lover, lets you really play around with the “Which Mesmer is real?” side of things. I’d think this skill would have a shortish cooldown, but if it were too short and had no cast time like the current shatters do, it would probably be too easy a Get out of Hundred Blades Free card.
This would obviously have no interaction with Phantasms, as whatever clone you swap with will most likely end up destroyed.

F3 – Diversion
Imbues all active Illusions with Diversion. When an Imbued illusion dies, is replaced or is shattered, the current target of the illusion is Dazed for one second.

Technically similar to the original, as it serves the same purpose, but isn’t useful as an on demand daze unless shatter is off cooldown. Unless of course you have all three illusions up and are able to summon another, detonating the oldest.

F4 – Distortion
Sacrifice all active illusions, granting the Mesmer with 1 second of Distortion per clone and 1.5 seconds per Phantasm destroyed.

This is obviously just spiced up to make shattering a Phantasm equal with shattering a clone. I’d like to rework the Sacrifice part of this, because I’d like if Shatter were the only ability that actually destroyed your illusions, but Distortion is just such a powerful effect I don’t see a way around it.

Rhyse.8176:

Both of these issues can be addressed by revisiting phantasms. A return to the at-reveal concept of phant’s as living hexes could return the mesmer to a manipulative gameplay style with minimal fuss. Damage needs to be shifted back to the PC; Phantasms need to be more varied and given a narrowly targeted effected (some random examples: a phantasm with a mobile ethereal combo field; A phantasm that strikes the target only when they damage a foe; another that punishes healing; a phantasm that knocks down immobile foes; hopefully you get the idea).

Wow, I think they are fantastic ideas! That sounds far more ‘mesmery’ than a temporary pet that unloads a pistol or swings a sword in order to support your ability to deal damage.

Some nice changes would be:
Torch 4 burns on cast, blinds on reveal
Buff scepter in some small way
Give shatter builds some decent traits to back them up (I actually quite like shatter as it is at the moment :P)

A lot of very good ideas in this thread!

Let me say I like the Mesmer as it is, but for me it sometimes feels kind of weird. The mesmer is there to confuse his foes and prevent being hit directly. Illusions are a big part of that, since they draw attention. The shatters, on the other hand, work in the opposite direction. You kill your illusions – but as a mesmer, you normally want your illusions to last as long as possible. As a pure PvE fun player, this seems awkward to me. I rarely use the shatters because I don’t want my illusions to die all the time. Especially, I don’t think the shatters are worth it.

My suggestions:

1) Like it was said, change the shatters to alter the illusions. For example teleport all melee illusions to the current foe and all ranged illusions away from the current foe. Or temporarily give them random boons. Or create a ring of illusions for a few seconds around the foe (you have to properly balance that ;-)). Or giving your own health to fuel your illusions. Or crushing your illusions into countless mini illusions that make tiny damage and cripple the foe or something (better yet, he is damaged for each one he steps on). There are so many possibilities.

2) There can still be one shatter that does spike dmg. But I think the damage done by mind wrack is not enough (personal opinion, I’m not a balancing expert).

3) I actually would like all illusions to be clones. Some stronger (long cast/cooldown), some weaker (fast cast/cooldown), but still.

4) Mantras really need to be thought over. They are (in my opinion) not that useful right now. I liked the idea of charging them through illusions. For example a dying (or shattered :-)) illusion could do that.

5) While stealth can be extremely useful in pvp, its not really in pve (except for running away). Maybe something could be done about that ^^

A slot skill and / or trait (not a specific weapon skill!) for boosting our out-of-combat movement.

I like the ideas by Nitrosol.

I would say we need to simplify the idea for Shatter, since such a long list wouldn’t work well, unless the shatter-effect is listed in the Phantasm’s tooltip.

The other three are an amazing idea, however. Especially Shuffle. For PvE I’d g ive it an increased chance that the enemy picks a clone instead of you.

Change #1 – Ctrl + t will no longer dependably target the original mesmer.

[quote from another thread:]

There are several ways the shatter mechanic could work:

—[staff] Shatter procs on death command of all illusions also adds boon to nearby allies

—[gs] Shatter procs when an illusion is killed by enemy shatter is aoe

—[scepter] Shatter procs on next attack, or offhand attack shatter bounces

—[1h sword] Shatter procs as defensive buff when struck by melee, spell or range and on dodge.

—etc

Being able to use shatters relative to the weapon equipped depends on how many pets are summoned — more pets, more powerful the effect. Re-summon recharges, when pet[s] not destroyed by shatter.

Weapon determines the type of proc. [not type of shatter]

Shatters could auto-cast when illusion summoned: ctrl-click as ‘on summoning’ an illusion.

This would make the mesmer a very complex opponent to follow, particularly when weapon swapping is properly utilized. The player has more controller over the shattered illusion.

Get it done, profession fixed.

On the subject of easy fixes:

-Better trait synergy
Right now, our “essential” traits for each build are all scattered around the trees. Generally, all of the builds pick up their traits to support their main mechanic, and any utility they get along the way is a bonus. I’d like to see Mesmers capable of traiting into two playstyles (Phantasm/healing, shatter/tank, etc). Right now, our weapon choices are somewhat limited by traits: we’re forced to use two weapons with trait synergy over complementary weapons from a utility or play-style standpoint.

I’d like to see the removal of “illusions do 15% more damage” and “phantasms do 15% more damage”. For one, they’re not interesting choices, they’re mandatory ones. It becomes less about gaining a boon, and more about doing 70% of your potential without those traits. Let traiting for damage come from the point investment in the tree and leave the slots open for utility and fun.

-Another (mid)ranged main hand weapon
This wouldn’t be as much of a problem if traits didn’t shoe-horn our weapon selection. I just feel that we lack a ranged main hand power/pres weapon to compliment the pistol or torch. If we had one, it would open up a lot of space for options for power builds doing ranged/ranged for WvW; or ranged/melee with a sword/sword or sword/torch/focus on the swap. OH sword, torch and focus all seem to compliment the MH sword well, but aren’t seeing much use just because the OH pistol is so good right now. Giving the OH pistol a main hand match would give Mesmers the option of changing up their melee off-hand.

And now for the wishlist stuff if the devs suddenly decided to completely start from scratch.

I would change the illusions as such

Phantasms
-Off the cap/shatters
-One of two things: Either keep them as burst (they attack once for high damage on spawn, and them immediately automatically shred themselves), or make them pseudo-turrets (Stay active until dismissal or re-summon, redirect to players target, and attack consistently instead of in bursts)
-Cap them at 1, or per catagory, or offensive/defensive. The current Phantasm build is pretty lame if only because it feels like I spend the first 10 seconds of combat just spamming out pets and then the rest of combat watching them do stuff for me. I shouldn’t feel compelled to dump every one I can summon at the start of combat, and I shouldn’t feel underpowered without them, and overpowered with them.

Clones
-Better animations for clone generating abilities and more reliable spawns. When I push Illusionary Leap on my sword, I want to see a clone leap out from me and stab my target. I don’t want to see 1/2 a second of “wobble” around my character, 2 second of a name tag floating above an invisible model as it slides toward my target, and then a model maybe appearing before it’s killed.
-I’d like to see more “clone attacks”. Where the animation for the attack includes an image lunging forward to attack while the Mesmer stands still or commands it with a hand wave. These wouldn’t spawn actual clones (unless it’s a clone generating ability like mirror blade), but would just be nice flavor for the profession. Maybe color them like phantasms to avoid confusion.
-More clone generation all around. 3 is a good cap, but I feel like I should almost always have three active unless I’ve just shredded them. Almost every Mesmer weapon should generate clones as fast as the scepter does. I would almost think of them as “Mesmer initiative” or “combo points”. Granted, you’d have to trait it or them to keep it in line, but give us the option of “clone army” builds with any weapon.

Quality of Life stuff
-Give us a couple different shades to pick from for our shatter effects. I get that Mesmers need to be recognizable by abilities, but even a selection of three colors would help alleviate the color clash most of us have between our gear and our purple spell effects.

My post from another thread :

I think Phantoms need a reason to be killed, at the moment sure they do good damage but its nothing that i find an enemy will specifically go after the phantoms to kill them as they die with the slightly damage so most of the time a quick auto attack while charging towards the mesmer will normally see them die – even with all the health bonuses from traits/skills

For Example -

Phantom Dualist doesnt wait like 5-10seconds between each barrage of bullets, but casts Magic Bullet say every 6seconds or something

Phantom Warlock – I rarely use this so not so sure but just like the dualist i see it standing around doing nothing most of the time. Have it Cast Winds of Chaos giving Booms and Buffs out to those it hits say bounce 3 times on say a 3 second cool down

The whole Shatter idea is STUPID – when you get traits and healing with Clones/Phantoms up you shouldnt be forced to lose them in order to get some mediocre damage (Mind Wreck is awful imo) Cry of Frustration and Diversion are decent BUT thanks to how broken Shatter is they are useless 99% of them time – They have to travel to the target which is stupid, they get stuck in terrain which is stupid

I can at times have 3 Phantom Duelists up at a time WHY would i want to lose all that dps for a rubbish damage ability (Mind Wreck) or 2 abilities that IF they worked would be good but never 100% that they will – why is it Distortion gives you the buff instantly when they die no matter how far away they are while the others they have to run into the target for it…

Shatter (if fixed) should ONLY work on Clones, that or reduce the damage that the Phantoms do and give it back to the Mesmer, maybe even buff the clones up – them doing like single digit damage is just so annoying

Or

Make it so that Phantoms blow up and really buff up the shatter abilities to make it worth while…This could be a problem with how Many illusions and Clones you have out – but seeing how little damage the clones do i think having 3 clones and 3 Phantoms out at the same time would be that bad – counter it by reducing the damage the Phantoms do maybe?

Then only the Phantoms blow up – Mind Wreck could have its damage like doubled, so it hits for like 3,000 damage (1,000 per a Phantom) that would actually make Mind Wreck worth using – so you get the choice, keep the sustained damage or go for burst damage now

Cry of Frustration and Diversion should NOT require Phantoms to run up to the target and they should give more of the condition for each number of Phantoms killed – Cry Of Frustration should be 2seconds per a Phantom killed and do more damage when they sure abilities, Diversion should cause Daze for 1 second per a Phantom – Now these may sound Over powered but you take into consideration all the cool down times – Maybe even increase Mind Wreck to 30seconds (25 traited), Cry Of Frustration to 45seconds (40 traited), Diversion to 55seconds (50traited) and Distortion to stay at 60seconds but 55 traited

That way the Mesmer wont be able to just summon and instantly kill them for Over Powered damage/effects

Also, Change Mirror Images – So that it summons 3 clones and you can press it say every 5 seconds to swap places with one of your clones this would actually make it a challenge for people to know which is the real you – Maybe even give them the same health as the Mesmer but make it so they take alot more damage from abilities after all they shouldnt be tanks or anything but they should confuse people – so if the mesmer has say 24,000 health the clones that are summoned with that but if the Mesmer has been hit and now instead of having 24,000 health they have say 13,000 then the clones are summoned with it but can get back to full health (of 24,000)

Maybe even change Ether Feast – rather then a silly additional health bonus – the Clones (only clones) all run up to the Mesmer (will be close anyway) and explode giving the Mesmer say 4,000healing Per a Clone destroyed – now may seem like alot but i have sen other classes go from near death to near full health in Spvp quite often, our healing ability is kinda meh

Signet of Illusions could then me change – too bump up the damage/condition duration of the new shatter rather then just reset it, this would lead to the Mesmer saying, if i use Signet my illusions (both Clones and Phantoms) will lose alot of health but :

Mind Wreck will have 50% chance to Crit
Cry Of Frustration will increase the damage from Confuse by 25%
Diversion will cause the target(s) to be stunned for 2 seconds after Daze Ends (mind need altering)
Distoration will give a 3econd stealth – this could be before or after the distortion effect

I’d really not want to change it much, it’s pretty close to perfect for my tastes. Just a few minor tweaks and adjustments here and there (maybe bump up Mind Wrack a teeny bit, buff iMage a bit, things like that). The basic mechanics are sound and the basic values are in the right ballpark.

I see scope for added abilities in the future though. But no major changes to what exists.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Dess.4391:

Tbh i dont know how anyone can consider 3 dazes (if you spread you clones they can shater at diferent times dazing theyr target 3 times for 1 sec each) or 3 (4 if traited) second of invulnerablility useless…. Even more when you can cast it in the middle of another cast without breaking it.
The thing with mesmers its almost every skill they have seems to be situational and you have to decide really fast what would be best to use. Dont get me wrong its also the fun part.

The problem being that:

1. Mesmers are far too reliant on phantoms for doing damage, plus we get if trait-ed 9% extra damage increase as well as 9% damage reduction with 3 clones/phantoms out…why would/should we have to remove that for the class mechanic?

2. Shattering doesnt always work, some times they get stuck in the ground and such and take to long to find the target and shatter

Sure, confuse and distortion are both great abilities however – they are very situational and require losing ALOT of dps and such in order to get them, are they worth it? in my opinion…No.

1-Idk, maybe is that i dont use phantasms for dmg, i normally run a condition dmg/survival build so my staff clones are there to add conditions. Sure if i shater i lose that, but conditions keep going for some secs and clones get up so fast its not a big loss. If you are wondering why im not using phantasms its cos they fool nobody. Sure theres many ways to figure who the real mesmer is, but i found normally ppl get confused in battle and most of the time they go for a clone or 2 before going for you

2-Yes its true, the only shatter that is reliable its Distortion since they just shatter in place and dont run, for the rest you have to be sure theres no bumps and probably stunt your target after hitting the shater to make sure they get it….

So far the most annoying problem i found with a cond dmg/survival build its destroying turrets and other things since those dont take condition dmg my dmg there its reduced a lot and take lots of time to bring them down. In fact its the only place where i have time to call 3 phantasms to increase my dmg….

Idk, as i think we are all still kinda noobs playing any class since the game has been out for very lil time, found some builds that are really interesting besides phantasms and in theory could work, of course i need time to try them, but seems mesmers have a lot of viable options to chose.

Granted, I’ve only played the mesmer a bit, (up to level 30) and most of those levels are from crafting, but I feel really underwhelmed by the classes Healing skills, Ether Feast & Prayer to Dwayna so far. They only seem to heal about a quarter of our total health whereas with other classes I’ve tried they heal up to 1/3rd to 1/2 of the classes hp…and the bonus on heals for having illusions on the field for Ether Feast also seems rather lacking.

Make illusionary Warden a ground target reticle.

Make Mind Stab into a Blast Finisher.

Change Echo into a short absorb for an entire duration, instead of one projectile.

Give the Prestige skill a toggle to reveal/blast/burn.

I like how everyone wants to re-design a class that’s working just fine as is, and is even a bit overpowered in many cases.

Basedgod.7328:

Change Echo into a short absorb for an entire duration, instead of one projectile.

I especially like comments like this, where the player clearly hasn’t used the ability (assuming you’re talking about Mimic, not “Echo”).

That said, ANet does need to make a serious pass on all its tooltips so players quit complaining about Mimic, among other inaccuracies.

1. Clones and Phantasms are persistent until their duration expires or their health does.

2. Shatter only uses clones as ammunition.

Boom, fixed. Even if #1 never happens, #2 NEEDS to happen in order to make the class’s design work with itself instead of against itself. Phantasms do so much damage that shattering them is almost always a loss.

Phantasms always die or expire, so Shattering them is almost always a gain.

EasymodeX.4062:

I like how everyone wants to re-design a class that’s working just fine as is, and is even a bit overpowered in many cases.

That said, ANet does need to make a serious pass on all its tooltips…

Thanks for the feedback – it’s good to hear from those who are fairly happy with things as they are now, just as much as from those who can see room for improvement.

I would also suggest to you that improvement can happen even where something is functional – just because it is working doesn’t negate the possibility it can be even better.

After all, GW1 is working just fine. I for one am very glad though that the studio continued to innovate and refine their ideas, and ultimately produced this breathtakingly extraordinary game.

I havent experienced any that just expire – they either die from damage taken or die when target (the second one being a total JOKE!)

@Dess – the point of Phantoms ISNT to confuse your target(s) they are there for damage. Phantom Dualist for example does silly damage though that is countered by the fact that they stand and do nothing while they “recharge” it would be better if reduced the damage they did as well as making them do a more constant damage as well as making the Mesmer and clones a bit more stronger

I would also suggest to you that improvement can happen even where something is functional – just because it is working doesn’t negate the possibility it can be even better.

There’s a difference between improving things and completely revamping them to “improve” them. Lol.

EasymodeX.4062:

There’s a difference between improving things and completely revamping them to “improve” them. Lol.

Sure, but the end result is the same – something better.

Anyway, apologies for the digression, let the great ideas continue to flow!

Great is subjective. TBH I don’t really like your ideas at all. I don’t think they’d really improve anything and they’re mostly based on false premises.

I’m pretty simple. Seems alot of people feel a real overhaul is needed.
I personally do not

I would like 5-10 seconds cut off chaos storm reuse
I would also like phantasms only to remain until killed or we are killed or obviously we shatter them

We spend too much time getting clones and phantasms up every single mob

Reading through the thread it seems there’s two basic categories of ideas. First, from those who think the class needs an overhaul. These people seem to be either GW1 mesmer players, or people that have looked at the class and don’t like it’s self-contradicting class mechanic.

The second is people who think it’s fine, and want minor tweaks to various skills. To this second group I say: the Mesmer is not supposed to be a pet class. Most of the suggestions reveal that this is, in fact, a pet class- make shatter affect clones only, fix phantasm AI, make them last until killed, etc. These ideas are just variations of pet management, meant to make mesmer pets more reliable and stay around longer. Yes, the current phantasm/pet reliant class works well enough. If you’re fine with that and enjoy pets, marvelous. There’s already the ranger and necro for you. But the mesmer has been (in GW1) and was intended to be (in GW2. Look up the old reveal info) something unique. Currently it’s not. This is the reason for the schizophrenic class mechanic in the first place- it was not designed around being a pet class. This is why illusions vanish when the target dies; it’s why shatter seems pointless when your phatasms are doing all the work; it’s why clones don’t do damage, it’s why the mesmer struggle to keep phantasms (and thus DPS) up in long fights. It’s all because they were never intended to function that way. You’re not supposed to miss your illusions after they shatter; they should be tools to be sacrificed. That there’s even a question of whether to shatter or not shows how far from the design the current class is.

I’d really love to see Mind blast become a combo blast finisher. It just seems logic and would add something really nice to this skill.

I’m pretty happy with the mesmer as it is, granted I’m only level 35 ish and haven’t played GW1 or much PvP, but still.

Although one thing I’d like to see, as was suggested earlier, is for mesmer fast attacks to generate clones like the scepter does. Since they die so easily(really easily..) we should be able to generate them on a constant basis.

Another thing could be something like adding two(?) spots on the right side of the action bars that phantoms would fill up, the original three spots would be for clones. Phantoms would still act as they do now and shatter when the enemy dies, but the shatter skills would only affect the clones. That way we wouldn’t have to sacrifice the phantoms that we rely on so much while still being able to use the shatter mechanic.

Just a quick idea.

Why improve an already OP class?? if they improve it or make it even more OP.. people is gonna complain.. etc etc..

What’s with people always wanting to change things to their likings instead of Learning how to play with what they have?? :S

Please stop trying to make the mesmer into a summoner necro. It would only serve to make the playstyle more passive and uninteresting. Mesmer is fun right now!

That being said, there are some interesting ideas on shatter alternatives. i wouldn’t rule out the possibility that some of these would make it in as expansion skills, but that’s likely far off.

Currently having a blast playing Mesmer. Awesome concept and the most unique class I’ve seen in an mmo for a while.

I’d like to see a few changes though to help fit the concept even more.

1, The removal of phantasms. Mesmer shouldn’t be a pet class and the phantasms seem like they were rushed to make up for lack of dps.

2, Making shatter damage instant. This is where burst should come from.

3, Also making each clone have a different aoe effect as default on death and not through a trait. This is key to making clones more dangerous and not wasted via random aoe.

ConterK.3972:

Why improve an already OP class?? if they improve it or make it even more OP.. people is gonna complain.. etc etc..

What’s with people always wanting to change things to their likings instead of Learning how to play with what they have?? :S

We’re not asking for our profession to be buffed into godhood. We want it to have better flow, trait focus, and just be more fun than it already is to play. Yes, mesmers are one of the better-off professions in the game right now, but that doesn’t mean A-net shouldn’t fix our mandatory useless traits, goofy clone mechanics or allow us to spec into more neat things than our working builds currently shoe-horn us into.

If any of the changes we’re asking for result in mesmers being too powerful, it’s pretty easy for the devs to tweak numbers back in any number of ways. We’re just looking for quality of life stuff that will make the class fun in the long run, not more “I WIN” buttons implemented tomorrow.

…aaaand I just fed the trolls.

I’d like to see shatter abilities become more interesting. I’d also like to see some tweaks to support skills, and group buffs. Just to make us a little more desirable.

We also have a few weak abilities on some of our weapons that could be changed. GS/Focus come to mind.

Only Way to improve the Mesmer would be to add a Main hand Pistol. Honestly we are a very powerful class

Dual Pistols would be epic.

However – people seem to think just because the class is strong (not OP imo) that all the bad things in the class – some of the traits, the phantoms doing like 50-60% of our damage) and of course the Shatter system that we should be happy the way it is, this ISNT about making the class OP, this is about:

1. Fixing the Shatter system
2. Bringing the Phantom damage back to the Mesmer and clones (maybe even remove Phantoms altogether)
3. Fix up the Traits

What i think they could do is:

Remove Phantoms from ALL weapons and put all the damage lost into Clones so maybe they do 100s of damage instead of single digit damage as well as the Mesmer and then remove the Shatter system the way it is now and make it kinda like adrenaline for Warriors, except ours get filled when clones shatter Have it as a like 5 step thing:

1st step – Maybe have the Clones do a bit Extra damage for say 10seconds
2nd Step – Add Conditions to the above
3rd Step – Clones and Mesmer Do Extra damage
4th Step Clones and Mesmer Add More conditions with every attack
5th Step – All Clones are Transformed into Phantoms That deal Extra Damage as well as give conditions out

This way the Mesmer could decide when best to use The ability, Now currently we would lose Confuse and Distortion which are the better of the current shatter system effects – nothing to say that when the clones/phantoms die after using the new system that they cant either gives AoE conditions or give the Mesmer several Boons something like :

1st step – When Clones die they give 3 Random Conditions for 3 seconds
2nd Step – When Clones die they give 3 random Boons for 3 seconds
3rd Step -Combination of Steps 1 and 2
4th Step – When Clones die they give Confusion, Vulnerability and Bleeding for 5seconds
5th Step – When clones die they give Fury, Might and Retaliation for 10seconds

The stacks would be dependent on how many clones/phantoms were active at the time of using it – so if they had the whole bar filled up (Step 5) after the now Phantoms die they would give the Mesmer 3 stacks of Fury, Might and Retaliation for 10seconds

Thought it would be better giving booms/conditions then straight out damage Steps 1,2 and 3 to make it balanced (i hope) the Random Boons and Conditions will be from a select group so was thinking for Conditions – Immobilize, Chill, Cripple, Fear and Blind and the Boons get picked from Aegis, Protection, Stability and Vigor

So that the Step 1-3 are about giving protecting Boons to your self while giving movement impairing ones to the target this could be improved further with traist that could like gives conditions to all targets in the area and all boons to allies in the area as well maybe even add like a random control effect trait as well with different effects active depending on How many clones out and what level you use the new shatter ability seeing as how we dont really have that many control effects

Have to agree with why do we want to destroy our clones etc to gain a condition that doesnt last all that long, weaking our defences from the traits. Having a attunement like the elementalist would be nice..
For example going a all out shatter-burst build attunement things stay the same, if you wanted to going for a more tanky-dps build using the +3% damage/reducing traits you could pick attunement 2 giving us 4 new skills allowing us to change clones attacks to gain boons or damge.