Guild Wars 2

Hey guys, I’ve recently seen a lot of people dissing Greatsword Mesmers.

Personally, I enjoy the attacks for it, and I love the way Greatswords look.

But, are they not a viable weapon for PvE and PvP?

Alot people are dissing mantra builds and iDisenchanter. Doesn’t keep me from using them.
All mesmer weapons are equal (possibly except torch). Everything depends on personal preference and playstyle.

Greatsword is great just not for shatter builds. Number 3 skill is trash they need to just make it where it is used on your target instead of an aoe circle. Otherwise nice damage looks cool great for phantasm builds and mantra builds.

Staff just has way better utility then a greatsword. And actually the damage can be the same if not better. Most mesmers that use staff think oh conditions! Lets use condition damage lol so wrong. Power and crit crit dmg is way better on a staff

gs better in agresive playstyle, staff not. staff not for kill some1, its more for “save your azz”
btw direct dmg>conditions in this game

drongas.4189:

gs better in agresive playstyle, staff not. staff not for kill some1, its more for “save your azz”
btw direct dmg>conditions in this game

Staff not for kill someone? Pretty sure that phantasmal warlock hits hard enough to kill something and at the same time can save your azz

First off, i love the mesmer’s aggressive and active playstyle. For me, the GS (secondary staff) fits perfectly. The GS is a fun weapon to kite with, since it has a snare and a knockback built in, and the autoattack nuke is good from distance.

I like the greatsword for its combo field synergy with chaos armor. Its aoe is very nice for when something gets up close and personal. I have also used sword/pistol which i enjoyed.

I personally never found the GS lacking at all, but i am a shatter happy player, and its 2 really pumps out clones. I find all 5 of the GS attacks very synergistic and fun.

number 3 has its flaws (makes you stop, groundtargetted), but also has its benefits (AoE, strips boon)… you get used to pretty quick.

ofc can, ppls play and with sceptr, im dont say what staff bad weopen. if u try condition build u must have staff (no more choise) . but 100% info gs 2nd wep for fast kill. 1st sword(shater)

In short: It’s fine.*

Most of the Mesmer weapon lineup is fine and functional and that leads to multiple methods of play which work well. . .and among gamers that tends to lead to conflicts between people with different builds arguing over “The One True Way.”

*I, too, would like to see some change to the #3 power.

I think it gets hate because people often use it wrong; it’s best use is as a secondary weapon, because the auto attack is weak even at range and pitiful in close encounters. If you want to stand in the backline and auto attack, gs is a pretty bad choice (not that mesmers had much better options, but still)

i’ve found the great sword to be an amazing weapon, almost all of its attacks are AOE but it does an amazing job of bursting single targets down.

i run a shatter build, and while its true that the auto attack does less damage the closer the opponent is to you i hardly feel like that really matters much in the long run. it does so much damage at range, and the closer they are the easier it is to land a shatter combo that if it did it’s full damage at point blank it might be a little over powered.

at mid range it’s incredible easy to make all of your attacks hit at roughly the same time. 3 shatters, a mirror blade, a phantasmal berserk and a mind stab.

GS? Open with zerker, mirror blade, dodge in, Pop f3, Swap, MI iLeap Blurred frenzy+MW equals dead anything… They nerfed the berserker damage… And to the person that hated on the torch. Traited it is amazing. Just saying.

i love the GS, i feel very use full with it and personally my build is built completely around getting Might and GS2 is awesome for this, i can run with a staff for defence and some condition damage from the image (he hits like a truck anyway) GS synergises well with the combo field too.

if i want full-out attack i will go GS / Sword+torch, open the same switch, leap, torch invis, blurred frenzy torch phantasm for reflection, GS, push back, finsh em off.

Mesmer’s rule for build variety, i can post my Might build if you want but it will have to be once i’m in from work tonight.

GS bad? no not by a long shot i personally find GS2 very useful too but i think that me being 1 in 2000000000

People whining about Greatsword. Greatsword getting buffed.

One can dream. For PvE, GS is one of the strongest weapons, if not the strongest (depending on what kind of encounter you are running).
For DEs and open world stuff, it is clearly the best choice (for me). Combined with a sword/focus off-set, there is not much left, you can’t solo out there..

GS is fine for shatter builds. It basically does more damage than alternatives and generates clones faster. It also has the highest synergy with SI, on par with Pistol.

People smoking some strong stuff.

EasymodeX.4062:

GS is fine for shatter builds. It basically does more damage than alternatives and generates clones faster. It also has the highest synergy with SI, on par with Pistol.

People smoking some strong stuff.

Yea I agree with this. Players like to pick on something that’s popular and talk it down to “sound cool” from time to time. I’ve not heard players crying about greatsword being a bad Mesmer weapon really. It’s at it’s most effective when you’re not the one taking the aggro though… if I were leveling a Mesmer again, I’d ditch the Greatsword at lower levels. At L80, in groups, where you can really let rip from max range it’s just great.

Personally, i allways found GS extremely lacking. The auto attack has pitiful damage and all the skills have cast times, limiting utility. The i.zerker is amazing damage and a very strong aoe tool, but everything the gs does for range control, the focus does better (oh, and it has an aoe phantasm that condition cleanses when combined with temp. curtain)

For shatters i allways found staff to be much better. The phantasm is strong single target damage, the clone is a stun breaker, a second blink, can be cast during other spells that have a cast time and its utilities give you much needed survivablitiy.

I really think that GS, Scepter & Torch need a second look, the GS has its uses, but mostly because we severly lack direct long ranged damage otherwise.

1. I crit the GS AA for 2.5-4k on targets in WvW. If it did more damage it would be overpowered.

2. The GS clones hit triple for SI procs.

3. Mirror Blade gives you a 3-9% (spec and situation dependent) direct damage boost, along with doing very solid damage. The cast time is really kitten fast. It’s also the lowest cooldown clone generator a Mesmer has as a weapon skill. It also gives you Might just because. Last, with good timing it almost always hits your targets 2 times, dealing more damage than the AA.

4. Mind Stab does as much damage as an AA, in an AOE. Bonus boon strip. If there are too many enemies for reliable Mirror Blade hammering, then Mind Stab finds its purpose for raw damage if not the boon stripping.

5. iBerserker too good, as stated. It actually hits its targets reliably, unlike iWarden. The cripple additionally enables you, the player, to follow up effectively.

6. Staff is a tank weapon. This is common knowledge. If you need more tank, go Staff. Switching from Staff to GS in a power-based shatter build basically increases your total damage output by 50%.

The only weapon that’s notably unattractive atm is Scepter, and it’s not too far off from ok. Torch is bugged, but ok, although iMage will always welcome a tweak upward.

Like EasymodeX.4062 said, these people are smoking some strong stuff. GS is by far our best AoE ranged weapon and the most versatile, followed by the staff.

It makes me remember a conversation in LA map chat, some guy was saying GS mesmer suck. Then I asked him why. Turns out he said mesmer suck in general, because he doesn’t understand how we do damage. Eeeh…

I’m always trying to change of gamestyle with my mesmer (playing Sword/Torch, even with the bug), but I always go back to GS somehow. The Torch can do good burst damage on a moving/dynamic target and gamestyle.

fakeblood.2576:

Greatsword is great just not for shatter builds. Number 3 skill is trash they need to just make it where it is used on your target instead of an aoe circle. Otherwise nice damage looks cool great for phantasm builds and mantra builds.

Staff just has way better utility then a greatsword. And actually the damage can be the same if not better. Most mesmers that use staff think oh conditions! Lets use condition damage lol so wrong. Power and crit crit dmg is way better on a staff

Lol?

GS is amazing for shatter mesmers. You will easily do more damage with GS as opposed to other weapons. Also, GS3 isn’t as bad as people think. Here’s an idea: use both. I do, and I destroy every bit of content in this game. Things get hairy
? I switch to staff and get defensive. You are also forgetting that Berserker has cripple, which is extremely useful for keeping a boss/large clusters of enemies slowed. Warlock will pull better single target damage but it does no AoE damage. You must be playing it wrong, because power/crit/perc is super strong on a greatsword.

Considering most people with GS tend to just AA spam in between cooldowns, here’s a thought for food: Cast GS3 immediately [as/]after the third strike hits. This will negate, or cancel, the remaining animation time, which is about 30% of the cast time. You will still be standing still for a tad bit, but it won’t be a big gimp to your DPS (unless you miss, in which case you just opened up to get DPS’ed on).

Additionally, if you have extra keys and quick access, you can create a keybinding that would set a key to instead press Esc instead of that keys function (allowable by ANet’s ToS because you are pressing one key to do one action, I press F and it acts as Esc is allowed), you can then use that to cancel the animations and get a tad more out of your auto attacks. This will make you very obvious to opponents, but will increase your downtime DPS by a HUGE margin.

Not that I use GS… I prefer staff, opting for GS only when against destructible bosses like TA (still use Staff against Tree, unless I’m lazy and want to afk) or Maw (simply because the elementals reflect projectiles).

I love the GS and always go back to it when I try something else. It works fine with a shatter build as well.

As a shatter mesmer
I use
GS + sword/pistol against ranged classes
and
Staff + sword/sword against melee classes

EasymodeX.4062:

6. Staff is a tank weapon. This is common knowledge. If you need more tank, go Staff. Switching from Staff to GS in a power-based shatter build basically increases your total damage output by 50%.

What? Your other points may have merit, but thats complete bullkitten. For shatters GS vs Staff theres zero difference. The buffs from staff and GS pan out, and chaos storm has a very good chance of giving you frenzy, which increases your dps by more than the weakness from GS 2.

As for clone generation, you can use staff 2 while summoning the phantasm and dodge after that to get your 3 clones for the first shatter, you will be buffed and immediately ready for your second one. Thats kinda hard to beat. Now, if you keep using the staff after you shatter, sure, your dps is gonna drop, but thats not very smart in any case, when 90% of your staff skills are on cooldown. Besides, getting the most out of a shatter build requires you to be close, thats not the best place for the GS.

If you said phantasm build, sure, the staff loses out simply because direct damage isnt its main thing.

EFFIT you want clones go scepter sword! 4/5 skills have clone generation potential! But I love the GS I love the staff… you will not get me to admit to a bad Mesmer weapon… Its all preference and what you wanna do… Nuff said.

Nretep.2564:

Alot people are dissing mantra builds and iDisenchanter. Doesn’t keep me from using them.
All mesmer weapons are equal (possibly except torch). Everything depends on personal preference and playstyle.

This makes me chuckle because everytime I come across a GS mesmer, I cackle with glee before smoking them with my torch. : D

Smoking them, I see what you did there.

GS is a nice weapon with two flaws:

- #3 should do a little bit more, even if it just applied one stack of confusion on top of the normal Aoe damage (which is very welcome since it’s not easy to get reliable and fast aoe dmg with Mesmer)
- the fact that #2’s bounce only works at midrange and closer is counterproductive to the concept of the weapon. I can choose between doing less dmg with skill #1 and maximizing my bounces (which is fun!) or I can stay at range, but then skill #2 is rather bad.

Actually i like how GS was planned, instead of focusing on the negatives you can see it the other way.
If ppl stay far from GS they would be hit harder from GS1 wich they cant avoid as easy as other ranged attacks since its not a proyectile. On the other hand if they ge close to reduce the dmg from GS they will be open to more bounces from GS 2nd skill and shatters will have more chance to hit.

Idk if im the only person that thinks like this, but even as most mesmer wep seems counterintuitive they work exactly like that to your oponent also.

Staff works the same way, even when it has 1200 range it actually works better in closer range.

Why you think so many ppl come crying to this mesmer forums?? A lot of mesmers players have a hard time understanding theyr own class imagine now how bad its for ppl who never played one now.

We do have to work more to get the same DPS as other classes?? Yes. Now on the other hand we are harder to be negated. Kill my ilusions, then im safe, go hit me then my ilusions will dmg you, stay at range my GS1 hits harder, come closer my GS2 hits harder and i have more chances to burst you with shaters. It seems the theme of mesmer weps and utilitys is allways trying to be “whatever you do you are kittened”

Mind stab could use a change IMO.

Sceptre needs more oomph or a better Normal clone/auto attack. (since shatter builds don’t even need it, phant builds find it worthless and condi build anything else is better unless you plan on just stacking confusion.)

In terms of comparable viability of GS vs other weapons its situational.
Personal preference I’d rather Great Sword vs Necros and Thieves. But staff I prefer vs guardians and warriors, and that’s with main hand sword more often than not.

From personal experience I preform much better with a staff vs a majority of my opponents. But some people give me trouble in such a way that I run with GS all the time, since the rest I can still kill even without the preferred weapon.

It should really have some more damage on it’s #1, at least if used properly from range. The numbers on it do seem high at first, because it is such a long channel, when really, the dps is awfully low; it does have about half the dps of sword’s auto attack even at perfect range all the time, and the other attacks on it are worse then blurred frenzy again.

The zerker is it’s saving grace, but leaning on it like that does make it suffer from other problems; it does not get much better with might stacks (huge in organized groups), fury, or timewarp, and you don’t get to swap to anything but staff while maintaining range. It’s still a good weapon to open with, thanks to being rather frontloaded with izerker, but saying that it generally does good, sustainable damage by itself is just plain wrong.

jportell.2197:

EFFIT you want clones go scepter sword! 4/5 skills have clone generation potential! But I love the GS I love the staff… you will not get me to admit to a bad Mesmer weapon… Its all preference and what you wanna do… Nuff said.

Actually, only three skills generate a clone, the other generates a phantasm. :p

I like scepter for my confusion build, but like the other guy, do agree it needs a little improvement. I’ve always hated it for clone generation though…that first chain is soooo slow, and for skills #2 on Scepter and #4 on Sword you have to wait to block something. The whole thing seems inelegant.

GS is not a bad weapon. It’s more like the noob-tube from a particular popular online game.

i dont understand why people bash #3 gs skill. Its lacking but its not that bad. One hit with the #3 skill is greater than the entire #1 chain. My real complain is really the cooldown between #5 and #3 skill. #5 grants alot of survivability for gs and #3 damage is nice. I burn through them quickly and traiting for gs does not help it that much

I can’t speak to pvp. In pve, the greatsword is my favorite. If you do events in Orr, you can tag multiple mobs with all the skills except #1 (and that’s changing soon so that the beam weapons can hit multiple targets). I run around the battlefield afterwards and pick up piles of bags.

Greatsword is probably the best direct damaging weapon Mesmers have, but I don’t use it for aesthetic reasons. I use Scepter/Pistol and Staff as my weapons, focusing mainly around shattering, but my Staff is actually my go-to weapon for when I need more damage*. With the Illusionary Elasticity trait plus 2 clones and Illusionary Warlock, you can do a LOT of damage by running up to an enemy and just throwing Winds of Chaos in their face at point blank range. Throw on Chaos Storm for more boons/conditions for twice the fun!

*This setup really sucks when you need to destroy objects though. I have to rely on Illusionary Duelist for that.

Assuming a berserker shatter build, the difference is damage (GS) vs survivaility (Staff).

The GS however, was broken recently in that the phantasmal berserker has trouble landing attacks. Massively reducing GS’s potential.

Sarie.1630:

jportell.2197:

EFFIT you want clones go scepter sword! 4/5 skills have clone generation potential! But I love the GS I love the staff… you will not get me to admit to a bad Mesmer weapon… Its all preference and what you wanna do… Nuff said.

Actually, only three skills generate a clone, the other generates a phantasm. :p

I like scepter for my confusion build, but like the other guy, do agree it needs a little improvement. I’ve always hated it for clone generation though…that first chain is soooo slow, and for skills #2 on Scepter and #4 on Sword you have to wait to block something. The whole thing seems inelegant.

Something really funny though! They have actually increased the projectile speed. I think it was in the October or nov patch that scepter projectile speed saw a 33% increase… How sad is that? I want it to travel faster/apply confusion in the first 1 or 2 projectiles/or grant a clone on the first attack…. Its still fun to use the scepter because I am going to keep using it til they FIX MY GREATSWORD!. And scepter torch with an asura racial skill… So much confusion… (Really makes me wish racials were allowed in tPvP)

Cataca.3867:

EasymodeX.4062:

6. Staff is a tank weapon. This is common knowledge. If you need more tank, go Staff. Switching from Staff to GS in a power-based shatter build basically increases your total damage output by 50%.

What? Your other points may have merit, but thats complete bullkitten. For shatters GS vs Staff theres zero difference. The buffs from staff and GS pan out, and chaos storm has a very good chance of giving you frenzy, which increases your dps by more than the weakness from GS 2.

Between GS and Staff, the shatters will deal similar damage.

GS phantasm will deal marginally more reliable damage.

GS AA will deal a little more damage.

Non-AAs will deal a kittenload more damage (MB tends to hit for about twice AA DPS, which is already higher than staff’s).

50% more is probably exaggerated. It’s probably like 33% more in reality.

- the fact that #2’s bounce only works at midrange and closer is counterproductive to the concept of the weapon. I can choose between doing less dmg with skill #1 and maximizing my bounces (which is fun!) or I can stay at range, but then skill #2 is rather bad.

Eh, no.

You use 1111 when the target is at range, and you use 2 when your phantasm is spawned (it will bounce off the phantasm and back to your target), OR within 600 range of you.

If the target is in melee you hit 5 and then continue, or swap to your other weapon set.

GS2 is not counterproductive to the concept of the weaponset — your mental concept of the weaponset is misaligned.

Nope, it’s awesome, at least in PvE. GS/Staff melts pretty much anything and will be even better once they fix iZerker again…

GS is offensive weapon. It is bad if you do not know how to kite people. To use GS to it’s potential you need to manage your distance and most likely use a more defensive second set. If you use GS in close range then ye it sucks compare to sword or scepter. I run GS/Staff and I love it. I have tired other sets but I love my range.

drongas.4189:

ofc can, ppls play and with sceptr, im dont say what staff bad weopen. if u try condition build u must have staff (no more choise) . but 100% info gs 2nd wep for fast kill. 1st sword(shater)

are you typing on a cell phone? please don’t use text shorthand if you are on your computer, that’s just being lazy. most can cope with being too lazy to capitalize but ppls and ofc is just….at no time will it be considered acceptable unless you are posting from your phone.

anyway, greatsword is still good even for shatter builds. it’s my preferred weapon still.

EasymodeX.4062:

Cataca.3867:

EasymodeX.4062:

6. Staff is a tank weapon. This is common knowledge. If you need more tank, go Staff. Switching from Staff to GS in a power-based shatter build basically increases your total damage output by 50%.

What? Your other points may have merit, but thats complete bullkitten. For shatters GS vs Staff theres zero difference. The buffs from staff and GS pan out, and chaos storm has a very good chance of giving you frenzy, which increases your dps by more than the weakness from GS 2.

Between GS and Staff, the shatters will deal similar damage.

GS phantasm will deal marginally more reliable damage.

GS AA will deal a little more damage.

Non-AAs will deal a kittenload more damage (MB tends to hit for about twice AA DPS, which is already higher than staff’s).

50% more is probably exaggerated. It’s probably like 33% more in reality.

mb does not hit for twice the dps. you can’t calculate dps in this game because there is no way to combatlog and parse

now if you meant to say it does double the damage, that’s another thing

dps != damage. dps is damage per second aka sustained damage.

Utility from staff is way way better then greatsword. I’m an aggressive player, and that’s exactly why i use the staff and sword/focus. It let’s me get into the enemy’s face with the ability to retreat right away if needed. The staff is great for both close and ranged combat which makes it a good weapon to switch with sword in any situation.

It’s not and ll be OP very soon.

I tend to use both. I love the ability to spread Confusion to my targets with GS and Generating Chaos Armor with both Staff 4 and/or Staff 5+Staff2 within the AoE range of Staff 5.

Both have pros and cons. With my playstyle, I find myself using GS over Staff because I go: Null Field + Feedback + Mirror Blade + pBerserker (switch to Scepter/Focus) + iWarden + Confusing Images + Mind Wrack/CoF… There you have close to 15 stacks of Confusion in less than 7 seconds.

Staff I use most in Boss fights where i can stay at range and keep popping Warlocks for insane amounts of dmg as this is a 1v1 skill and keep casting Staff 5 to protect melee ranged allies.

Dixa.6017:

mb does not hit for twice the dps. you can’t calculate dps in this game because there is no way to combatlog and parse

If Attack A hits every 10 seconds for 1000 damage and Attack B hits every 30 seconds for 6000 damage, then B does 2x the DPS of A.

Easy as that. :P

That’s sustained based on cooldown and ignores baseline damage output between the casts of the special ability you’re looking at.

A more granular scenario would be something like a random skill A (let’s call it “Mirror Blade”) takes 0.75s to execute and hits for 3500 * 2 every 4.8s. Random skill B (let’s call it “Winds of Chaos”) hits for [1200+419] in 0.75s. Random skill C (let’s call this one “Spatial Surge”) hits for 3500 in 1.0s every 1.0s.

In a given 10 second interval, skill A fires twice (1.5s) for 14000 damage with skill C filling the gaps (8s) for 28000 damage. Spamming skill B for 10 seconds would net around 21047.

Spamming A + C is around 42k damage in 10s, and B is about half that. So half dps.

Edit: For individual metrics; MB’s DPS for its animation becomes 9333, with WoC at 2159. Maybe I should have originally said 4×.

The bottom line is that many players don’t realize that when using a Staff, you have exactly 1 button from 1-5 that deals anything more than a dribble of power-based damage, and that is iWarlock. Everything else is negligible damage.

When you use GS, you have 4 buttons that deal ‘solid’ power damage. Mirror Blade is almost as potent per cast in direct damage as using a phantasm. Bonus points being that it can be used every 4.8s [traited], unlike phantasms.

No. I do admit the auto attack seems weak, but coupled with a staff and shatter build, I do tons of damage anyway. Been using a greatsword since level 1, hasn’t done me wrong since.

The really cool thing about mesmers is that all their weapons have a purpose at some point or other.

I primarily run sceptor/sword sword/torch. But I also carry in my pack the staff for when my party needs more support and less control (clone death traited is awesome w/ sceptor), typically dungeons. And then I carry GS for when I find myself sucked into a zerg fight or some at-one-time-used-to-be-epic world event where range is a benefit.

I just get to bored with GS most cases, why it chills in my pack. I blow my cool downs and then I stand about and go pew pew backing up when needed. Its just not active enough for my play style. I love the spastic running and dodging and stealthing that my primary weapon sets give.

GS has its uses and is extremely effective at what it does. I think people would be foolish not to carry one.

(My ranger is same way, I have my primary weapons, but I’ve got my bows and sword/dagger combo in the pack for the times they prove most beneficial).