Is Mesmer Nerfed for Chronomancer?

Is Mesmer Nerfed for Chronomancer?

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Posted by: Chaos Archangel.5071

Chaos Archangel.5071

  • Chaotic Dampening Reduced from 5% to 2% – This change makes obtaining a flat 20% cooldown reduction rather difficult for any build that doesn’t invest into sword+staff and atleast two ethereal fields… Except when you take into account Alacrity. Chaotic Dampening stacks well with alacrity for a speedy recovery.
  • Maimed the Disillusioned Reduced torment stacks from 2 to 1 – With Imagined Burden, Deceptive Evasion, and Chronophantasma this trait is actually rather good for Chronomancer… But not for core Mesmer.

Right now Chronomancer seems like the Pay-to-Win version of Mesmer, and seeing Mesmer further nerfed to accommodate for this elite spec cements that point in further. Do you think that Mesmer is nerfed for the sake of other players, or for the sake of our elite?

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Posted by: Iavra.8510

Iavra.8510

I’m split between these two. I think that MtD was too strong at 2 stacks and needed a nerf or at least a GM spot next to Ineptitude/different traitline to not make Illusions/Chaos be the cure-all for condi builds. Chaotic Dampening, on the other hand, feels too weak for someone who hasn’t played staff when it was 5%, so i can’t argue about its former state.

Regarding Chronomancer, i think it feels in a better spot since the announced changes, though i’m still against giving it (or any other “OH weapon only” specialization) a free F5 without any tradeoff.

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Posted by: Vieux P.1238

Vieux P.1238

Don’t worry, Mesmer nerfed for everything !!!!

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Posted by: skcamow.3527

skcamow.3527

Of course they had chrono in mind when making the recent nerf decisions. It would be wildly tunnel visioned for them not too.

Discussing and implementing the nerfs without 1/6 of the mesmer in mind would be a horrid mistake, but I’ll concede that with Anet it’s hard to tell sometimes.

EDIT: With that said, I think the devs were concerned with mesmer burst capabilities and maybe would have let it slide a bit more if not for chrono on the horizon, which made them terrified.

Kortham Raysplitter (Yak’s Bend)

(edited by skcamow.3527)

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

I’m split between these two. I think that MtD was too strong at 2 stacks and needed a nerf or at least a GM spot next to Ineptitude/different traitline to not make Illusions/Chaos be the cure-all for condi builds. Chaotic Dampening, on the other hand, feels too weak for someone who hasn’t played staff when it was 5%, so i can’t argue about its former state.

Regarding Chronomancer, i think it feels in a better spot since the announced changes, though i’m still against giving it (or any other “OH weapon only” specialization) a free F5 without any tradeoff.

i really dont know how 2 torment stacks were too strong if before the patch it wasnt. is it just cause of IP alone is was TOO strong where mostly as condi you dont always in your face of your enemy.
it became “too strong” because ppl start to play mtd and anet afraid of it.

with chrono as of today it really wont make any different regarding the condi pressure mesmer can put maybe in a 30 sec fight it could end in 25 sec but condi burst pressure still isnt there yet even with ip

without staff why you wanna take CD and with alacrity it still wont become 20% unless you take 2 ethereal fields

also check other class condi dmg. ranger got bleed and poison buff, thief also poison buff, necro condi buff, guard burning buff
we none – i think torment should get 30%-50% more dmg to a moving target and burning should get another stacks from torch skills and AA from staff

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Posted by: Stormbolt.7293

Stormbolt.7293

Certain aspects were nerfed for sure, but I think it’s perfectly reasonable. Anet was in a difficult position. You could argue that some aspects are “pay to win” but 5% Chaotic Dampening would have been game breaking with alacrity. Elite specializations introduce many new mechanics, and those mechanics will inevitably affect the balance of the core specializations. I wouldn’t necessarily say that Chronomancer is pay to win or mandatory either. It offers nothing to PU condition builds, and traditional power shatter has better options (especially with the IR nerf). Chronomancer is geared towards lockdown, support, and zerg builds, all areas that the Mesmer was deficient in before. Other elite specs seem to be trying to achieve similar things (Reaper with melee, Dragonhunter with raw DPS, etc).

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Posted by: Iavra.8510

Iavra.8510

i really dont know how 2 torment stacks were too strong

The thing is, due to the nature of shatters it’s not just 1 torment stack difference, but potentially 4 or even more, depending on how much you shatter.

Also, prepatch there was no Ineptitude, no burn stacking (mesmers don’t do much burning, but staff clones can actually hurt due to that, not to mention the new iMage), Confusion damage could be completely avoided and Scepter #3 didn’t stack as fast as it does now.

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Posted by: Mikkel.8427

Mikkel.8427

I wanna know where our ‘Slow you apply also deals condition dmg’ trait is.

What has really bothered me about all these changes is the bleeding dmg nerf on top of the removal of confusing combatants… which really has nothing to do with Chronomancer.

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

i really dont know how 2 torment stacks were too strong

The thing is, due to the nature of shatters it’s not just 1 torment stack difference, but potentially 4 or even more, depending on how much you shatter.

Also, prepatch there was no Ineptitude, no burn stacking (mesmers don’t do much burning, but staff clones can actually hurt due to that, not to mention the new iMage), Confusion damage could be completely avoided and Scepter #3 didn’t stack as fast as it does now.

as of before 2 stacks of torment again if it didnt was op why now

is it cause of ineptitude which only add about 3 confusion stacks ?! – no
is it cause burning stacks while other classes got stack buff we got nothing . try to get 3 stacks with AA and torch for 3 sec….
is it cause scepter #3 stack bit faster confusion (maybe 1 stack more)…

so lets say we got 4 confusion stacks and lost 6 torment stacks also their duration is not the same … you do the math.

before the patch i could do around 8 confusion and 15 torment and now 8 torment and 15 confusion. and in the furst beta before the nerf i could do 15 torment and 15 confusion (all in average game i mean). finally i though here is condi burst but NO.
in 1v1 ppl still crying. in group fight ppl dont want condi mesmer. while dd ele can do nice 12-15 burning stacks same as guard and engi… you do the math….

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Posted by: Mikkel.8427

Mikkel.8427

This answer to the Rev thread indirectly answers this question I think-

“There are no plans to add skills or traits which affect energy gain, upkeep gain, or energy cost of skills for the Revenant. These traits very quickly become mandatory choices as it means you can use your skills more often and in the case of energy, it would apply to all your skills since they all use energy. This is a dramatic increase in power across the board.
These kind of traits makes for less interesting choices and cause many problems with balance, often forcing skills to be weaker to compensate for the possibility of a player having all these traits equipped meaning they can use skills much more often then a player without them. But of course there will be balance on on energy costs and recharges of skills to make sure everything feels good and balanced for what it does in the toolkit of the revenant.”

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Posted by: AlphatheWhite.9351

AlphatheWhite.9351

I wanna know where our ‘Slow you apply also deals condition dmg’ trait is.

What has really bothered me about all these changes is the bleeding dmg nerf on top of the removal of confusing combatants… which really has nothing to do with Chronomancer.

Wait, what bleeding dmg nerf?

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Posted by: Mikkel.8427

Mikkel.8427

Before the update they showed the new formulas for condition damage (i think it was on POI, ill try to find the show later tonight and add a link). They wanted conditions to do less dmg at lower condition dmg and more dmg with a higher investment in the stat. The ‘breaking point’ was around 750 condition dmg. So, when you compared dmg between the new and old formulas, at around 750 condition dmg you’d be doing the same dmg (More if you had higher, less if you had less).

When the update rolled in they ninja adjusted bleed dmg so the new breaking point was 2050 condition dmg (I believe thats right, I need to do the math again). So, basically… if you have less than 2050 condi dmg you’re doing less dmg per bleed than you were before the specialization update.

I’m sure they considered this ‘balanced’ bc of most professions’ high access, vuln affecting condi dmg and there being no stack limit now… but still.

Edited: Wall-o-text

(edited by Mikkel.8427)

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Posted by: AlphatheWhite.9351

AlphatheWhite.9351

Before the update they showed the new formulas for condition damage (i think it was on POI, ill try to find the show later tonight and add a link). They wanted conditions to do less dmg at lower condition dmg and more dmg with a higher investment in the stat. The ‘breaking point’ was around 750 condition dmg. So, when you compared dmg between the new and old formulas, at around 750 condition dmg you’d be doing the same dmg (More if you had higher, less if you had less).

When the update rolled in they ninja adjusted bleed dmg so the new breaking point was 2050 condition dmg (I believe thats right, I need to do the math again). So, basically… if you have less than 2050 condi dmg you’re doing less dmg per bleed than you were before the specialization update.

I’m sure they considered this ‘balanced’ bc of most professions’ high access, vuln affecting condi dmg and there being no stack limit now… but still.

Edited: Wall-o-text

Ah, okay. I was worried I’d been using the wrong formula in my calculations the whole time.

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Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

I’m still going to maintain that Cry of Frustration should have one torment stack per illusion, base, since the change to MtD.

It seems natural that it was changed with the illusion generation capabilities of Chrono in mind, together with IP – although depending on the end result of IR, it could mean that all three of DE, IR and Cp will become mandatory for shatter heavy condition play.

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Posted by: Tealots.6095

Tealots.6095

I’m still going to maintain that Cry of Frustration should have one torment stack per illusion, base, since the change to MtD.

It seems natural that it was changed with the illusion generation capabilities of Chrono in mind, together with IP – although depending on the end result of IR, it could mean that all three of DE, IR and Cp will become mandatory for shatter heavy condition play.

Makes sense since not being able to move or use any ability for fear of taking extra damage is, you know, frustrating…

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Posted by: messiah.1908

messiah.1908

I’m still going to maintain that Cry of Frustration should have one torment stack per illusion, base, since the change to MtD.

It seems natural that it was changed with the illusion generation capabilities of Chrono in mind, together with IP – although depending on the end result of IR, it could mean that all three of DE, IR and Cp will become mandatory for shatter heavy condition play.

Makes sense since not being able to move or use any ability for fear of taking extra damage is, you know, frustrating…

maybe but it sad that power shatter can go for inspiration line for some support while condi dmg wont (like with chaos for example)

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Posted by: Curunen.8729

Curunen.8729

I’m still going to maintain that Cry of Frustration should have one torment stack per illusion, base, since the change to MtD.

It seems natural that it was changed with the illusion generation capabilities of Chrono in mind, together with IP – although depending on the end result of IR, it could mean that all three of DE, IR and Cp will become mandatory for shatter heavy condition play.

Makes sense since not being able to move or use any ability for fear of taking extra damage is, you know, frustrating…

EDIT: OH MY! I’m so sorry! :o

I’m very tired and totally misread your post! Edited my unpleasant/blunt comments – please accept my apologies.

One stack on Cry of Frustration as standard would provide a dedicated condition shatter burst button which would also provide the additional torment pressure that brings the balance back into a decent spot from the overnerf of MtD, without making all the other shatters overpowered in their condition application.

(edited by Curunen.8729)

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Posted by: Solori.6025

Solori.6025

i really dont know how 2 torment stacks were too strong

The thing is, due to the nature of shatters it’s not just 1 torment stack difference, but potentially 4 or even more, depending on how much you shatter.

Also, prepatch there was no Ineptitude, no burn stacking (mesmers don’t do much burning, but staff clones can actually hurt due to that, not to mention the new iMage), Confusion damage could be completely avoided and Scepter #3 didn’t stack as fast as it does now.

While we have condi rev’s putting on 15-20 stacks of burst torment.


The world needs more KUNG FURY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS5P_LAqiVg

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Posted by: Iavra.8510

Iavra.8510

While we have condi rev’s putting on 15-20 stacks of burst torment.

So a class in beta is unbalanced compared to a class that’s been out there for years? I’m shocked…

Regarding Cry of Frustration, keep in mind that a condi shatter can burst with every shatter when compared to Power, not just F1. I’m all for making F2 better, but there would need to be a downside to iRetribution/MtD in exchange, especially considering that F5 will give 2 extra applications of both.

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Posted by: Mikkel.8427

Mikkel.8427

While we have condi rev’s putting on 15-20 stacks of burst torment.

So a class in beta is unbalanced compared to a class that’s been out there for years? I’m shocked…

Regarding Cry of Frustration, keep in mind that a condi shatter can burst with every shatter when compared to Power, not just F1. I’m all for making F2 better, but there would need to be a downside to iRetribution/MtD in exchange, especially considering that F5 will give 2 extra applications of both.

iRetribution is part of the problem imo. Shatters are intended to be bursts… but for condi builds its more like sustained shatter pressure.

I’d perfer if they removed iRetribution then lowered the cooldown on CoF to match mindwrack and increased its confusion per illusion to 3~4. No more spam, we’d have a dedicated condition shatter that would need to be timed and executed the same as mindwrack for power builds.

Maybe replace iRetribution with shattered strength, which would be nice for both power and condi builds… then move malicious sorcery down and think of a new GM.

Edit: Maybe lower/remove the base dmg on CoF after those changes also.

(edited by Mikkel.8427)

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Posted by: NICENIKESHOE.7128

NICENIKESHOE.7128

While we have condi rev’s putting on 15-20 stacks of burst torment.

This is assuming you will throw all skills against someone who can’t dodge…which mesmer can achieve the same with multiple shatters mind you.

Back to topic, despite what Chaos said is already bad enough. I’m probably a bit more pessimistic than that. I have a feeling we’ll be seeing more nerf on alacrity to bring it in line with other traitline or classes if general public don’t get the concept of “elite specialisation”.

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

This is pure silliness and idiocy at it’s finest! ANet wouldn’t nerf something in order to give it us back via traits!


This is sarcasm before a mod or anyone else takes offence.