Is The Mesmer An Inherently Selfish Class?

Is The Mesmer An Inherently Selfish Class?

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Posted by: MesmeForever.3612

MesmeForever.3612

Utility skills
—Mantras require that the Mesmer be completely ineffective during the charge, so using them in any way other than leaving 4 of them charged with Empowering Mantras active lowers the player’s effectiveness outside of short battles.
— The two phantasm utilities, Defender and Disenchanter, are meant to support, but fail. Defender attacks its target in melee, making it extremely likely to be killed even without it absorbing allies’ damage. Disenchanter functions like Null Field, but it dies with its target. Additionally, it’s fragile and its attack is slow and can’t be targeted.
— Veil is helpful in a dueling build as a target scrub, but it isn’t useful in a support build and doesn’t syngergize with the play style of the Glamour Mesmer because of its shape. It’s small and its effects are short-lived no matter what, though it has a very long recharge. If it functioned as it did in the Mesmer reveal video (aoe ring like Null Field), it would make much more sense as a glamour. Make it work like Time Warp in that it only grants 1 second of stealth per second while in the field and you won’t have an overpowered skill.
-- Portal is helpful and support-oriented, but not useful in regular battle.
— Illusion of Life is niche but very effective and would be extremely useful to a good player with a reasonable recharge and possibly a larger area of effect.
— Feedback is great, but would be better for support if it were ground-targeted.
— Null Field and Signet of Inspiration are excellent examples of Mesmer support utilities; the rest are solo skills (which are fine, but we need a balance.).

Traits
—Restorative Mantras could be helpful if the heal were channeled over the course of the charge, like a Guardian’s Empower. The same idea could be implemented with Protected Mantras, only affect allies as well so that, during the channel, they receive increased toughness (or any character stat), and make charging mantras more worthwhile, not necessarily through buffing the skill use. Additionally, Protected Mantras feels out of place in Dueling.
—Restorative Illusions should heal allies upon shatter – while I understand that this could be overpowered, it could also be given the attention needed to keep it from being so. For instance, the heal could be in a radius around the Mesmer or around the individual illusions at the time the shatter is activated instead of when it occurs. Since it’s in a line that shatter/burst damage Mesmers don’t max out, it’s unlikely to be a problem.
—Similar to the conditions caused by Confusing Combatants, Debilitating Dissipation and Crippling Dissipation, I’d like to see some traits that grants boons to allies on clone death.
—Prismatic Understanding, which gives a few short-lived boons while stealthed, does not affect allies, though the marginally lengthened stealth duration does.

Weapon Skills
—The focus is obviously more support oriented, blocking projectiles, interrupting foes, granting swiftness – but we can’t tell what area our shields cover, the interrupt is now telegraphed, and the swiftness doesn’t apply onto other swiftness.
—The staff is another weapon with strong support capabilities, but a combo effect it can already achieve through two other skills on the same weapon incorporated as a skill seems really silly. It could easily be replaced by an aoe blind or something of little consequence so as not to throw off the balance of the weapon. But at least a skill with a special effect that isn’t already used for something else, since Mesmers have the fewest skills of all the professions.

—The Mesmer has no main-hand weapon with even a slight favoritism among support-oriented Mesmers. I think that is a problem.

Combos
—Blast and Whirl are the cooperative finishers, and Projectile and Leap are solo finishers. Only 19 of the Mesmer’s skills allow the class to take part in a combo, making it the class with the fewest of them.
—Of those, one is a blast finisher and 3 are whirl finishers, though two of those aren’t reliable because their position on the battlefield is dynamic.

Elites
—The Mass Invisibility/Shadow Refuge threads exist already, but I agree with the complaint that as an elite, it is inferior. Veil didn’t even get turned into that.
—I honestly don’t know why Moa Morph exists. It doesn’t empower me or my allies, and it only affects one foe. In PvE, it often doesn’t even do that. Why not an elite that summons 3 phantasms (which could be random or completely new) or briefly dazes/stuns/blinds enemies in an aoe?

Thanks if you read. I tried not to be too whiny.

(edited by MesmeForever.3612)

Is The Mesmer An Inherently Selfish Class?

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Posted by: jportell.2197

jportell.2197

This is kind of why my mesmer is shelved atm. I love the group support role… And mesmer just doesn’t do it all that hot. However your analysis about the defender is skewed. In pve its amazing and coupled with SOI+persisting images that thing is very hard to kill and a great tank for the short CD.

Johnny The Gray
GASM’s Bunker Mesmer

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Posted by: Altoid.9104

Altoid.9104

For PVE

- Copy all current boons to other party members
- Tons of reflects, really good support and a must for fractals.
- Mantras are actually good. Cleansing 2 conditions off of all party members (2 charges on it) is great or giving stability x2. Not sure how that could be selfish.
-Boon rip / condition cleanse aoe. Situational but still really good.
-Speaking of boon rips the sword auto attack does it.

That’s off the top of my head. Mesmer is pretty good at support while still being able to go all in on dps.

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Posted by: themenaceofseventhdimension.2075

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075

I think Jportell already knows all of that. He wants to be able to have some “Guardian” ish kind of feel to the support builds and still be a Mesmer. You all know how guardians are great at Support. This is my take on it when he said he wasn’t that much interested at the current state of Mesmers for support. Just my own take, nothing else.

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Posted by: Heinel.6548

Heinel.6548

One of the things I never seen people talk about when talking about support mesmers, is Phantasmal Healing. Perma group regen with just 2 phantasms up, you can do it straight from the start by weapon swapping once. Scales well with healing power, stackable on top of virtue of resolve, soothing mists. Many classes have access to regen boon, but few can have the kind of coverage a mesmer can put out.

The only complaint I have for support mesmers are the lackluster grandmaster traits in the inspiration line. However, any build with at least 15 in inspiration are automatically solid supporters, without you putting any thoughts into it.

“… but I hate the idea ‘It may not make sense at first’.
I want it to make sense right away, then another sense later. Murkiness =/= quality "
- CCP Abraxis

(edited by Heinel.6548)

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Posted by: Alissah.9281

Alissah.9281

Guide: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-The-Chaos-Maestro-WvW-Support-Builds/page/4#post3042327
Vid: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aQm1A5c2dRY

Mesmers have some of the best boon support, its up there with the guardians/engi/ele. As far as I remember it goes like:

Mesmer: best boon support, and alot of projectile reflection. But stability and protection require a major damage sacrifice and changes in traits. Mantra healing requires you to do nothing else, but has no cooldown. (Only needs 20 inspiration for a support build, leaving 50 to the player to place)
Guardian: second best boon support, with best acces to stability and protection with a hammer. Im pretty sure all the boon skills are instant, but healing isnt.
Ele: automatically supports in their own playstyle. They dont have to sacrifice damage, and has alot of aoe might stacks. They dont sacrifice damage at all
Engi: perma weakness, some cripple, easily 25 vulnerability and alot of blast finishers. Has to sacrifice damage to get the weakness cripple and healing, though.

New Rainbow Guild – An open-minded guild exclusively for Transgender people!
Warning: link may contain traces of awesome.
Lyssa’s Grimoire – a guide every Mesmer should read.

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Posted by: Chaos Archangel.5071

Chaos Archangel.5071

@Mesme: I feel a lot of those points are really a matter of perspective/creativity.

Mantras – Mantras have a charge time, but we have so many instant-cast abilities that there’s still things we can do. Shatters, for example, can be used while charging mantras. If you have Phantasms up then they’ll be contributing while you charge. With staff, you can still Phase Retreat.

Defender/Disenchanter – It is pretty stupid how Defender has to run into melee-range like a moron, but it’s a phantasm that is stronger the smaller the engagement. It also adds double retaliation damage when both you and the phantasm have retal. Disenchanter is actually pretty nice; it’s on a low cooldown and the bounce works pretty nice, its actually one of our best forms of condition/boon removal.

Veil – Veil is one of the staple moves for Mesmers in zergs since there’s no limit to how many people can run through it and gives the Mesmer’s zerg the advantage of initiative (their frontline pretty much have the first attack since they can’t be targeted, though AoEs are still … AoEs.). With Prismatic Understanding and Mantras Veil works pretty well, allowing you 6 seconds of stealth (jump up-and-down the curtain) while you charge mantras and gain defensive buffs.

Portal – You can use portal pretty much everywhere. Even in smaller engagements. It’s another of the many Mesmer skills that benefit from the creativity of the user. It’s actually a bit underexplored as far as team mechanics in smaller engagements, but people are always coming up with interesting uses for it.

Illusion of Life – Very good in smaller team fights, as shown in tPvP.. I don’t use it much personally, so I can’t really say. Could definitely use some improvements.

of course, Feedback, Null Field, and Signet rock.

I like and agree with all of your trait suggestions, but if PU affected allies it’d be ridiculously OP. Prismatic + Signet of Inspiration already can give well over 30 seconds of protection to the team.

The Focus's Temporal Curtain isn’t as random as you make it seem. With practice you can tell the curtain’s height and the pull from it is still dangerous. Even leaving the curtain up makes enemies nervous and likely to waste a dodge (Mesmer mindgames FTW) Also, its a Light field, so whirling allies can remove conditions and we can stack Retal like mad with it, and it doesn’t have a limit to how many allies can run through for swiftness. The cripple it applies is also pretty good.

Your question about Moa is another example of Mesmer support: Control. The same way the Guardian/Ele has many ways to naturally give boons, Mesmers naturally come loaded with an assortment of options to keep the enemy controlled and debilitated. It’s this combination of Control (reflects, dazes, ect), Boons, and the potential to drop considerable amounts of heals that makes Mesmer valuable in teams. It’s a class that rewards creativity with the skills more than most others.

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Posted by: RedCobra.7693

RedCobra.7693

STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!!!!! lmao youre all killing me, one word reflection, in my group i run with in WvW i do more damage than them put together, reflection maintains a defencive barrier while doing insane amounts of dps to an enemy group, and the mesmer has the best reflection, if youre a mesmer in a wvw zerg and youre not running reflection then youre being selfish xD

RedCobra – Ranked PVP Druid
Current Season – Platinum (Soloq)
Retired GW2 ESL Tournament Admin

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Posted by: Eremoo.2785

Eremoo.2785

could you post your reflection build that still maintains veil? I’d love to try it, if you do post, please let me know how you run with the zerg (if always with them, if only with them when you are about to reflect, what do you do when reflects are on cd)

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Posted by: Lord Jim.3971

Lord Jim.3971

Every mesmer in the game that goes anywhere near a guild raid is being taken purely for its support. Veil, Null Field and Time Warp along with Focus pulls are incredibly powerful skills and pigeon hole almost all Mesmers in a sensible sized guild raid into running Sw/Focus + X with Veil, Null Field and Time Warp as 3/4 utility spots. In a standard set up only Guardians running 2 shouts, a consecration and Tome of Courage are running fewer “selfish” skills and a lot of Mesmers will probably run Feedback in that final utility slot anyway, averaging 3.5/4 support skills on a usual bar for organised large scale play can’t really be deemed selfish.

Conchis – Tchuu Tchuu I’m A Train [TCHU] – Gandara

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Posted by: Mogar.9216

Mogar.9216

All I can say i I have a long line of thieves and other soloers who wants to gp with me all the time. So for small scale mesmers are by far the best gp member imo.

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Posted by: RedCobra.7693

RedCobra.7693

Every mesmer in the game that goes anywhere near a guild raid is being taken purely for its support. Veil, Null Field and Time Warp along with Focus pulls are incredibly powerful skills and pigeon hole almost all Mesmers in a sensible sized guild raid into running Sw/Focus + X with Veil, Null Field and Time Warp as 3/4 utility spots. In a standard set up only Guardians running 2 shouts, a consecration and Tome of Courage are running fewer “selfish” skills and a lot of Mesmers will probably run Feedback in that final utility slot anyway, averaging 3.5/4 support skills on a usual bar for organised large scale play can’t really be deemed selfish.

i dont use veil and i have a stealth mesmer in my team who has it so it would be pointless for me to use considering id dont have its cool down reduced or enough points in chaos, but heres my build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8dl0zipHSzqGa9IipC92pHQ3y9clegb82FC-jEDBYfJDDMQojwUAYkFBhIAmKAK7pIasFTFRjVbDTDjIq2krIa1SBYmwI-w

RedCobra – Ranked PVP Druid
Current Season – Platinum (Soloq)
Retired GW2 ESL Tournament Admin