Guild Wars 2

I’m new to GW2 but have always enjoyed playing control type classes in RPGs. I apparently missed the golden age of control in GW1 with our namesake class, but I have been leveling a Mesmer (currently 72 – hoping to finish it out this weekend!) with hopes of playing control in WvW or a PvP mode. I’ve lurked on the forums for a while and really like the sound of several builds, including Chillruption and anything that uses Power Block.

So, my question is, with the recent changes to Mesmer do you all think a lockdown focused build is still a good choice? Are we needed in WvW/PvP? Can we make a legitimate impact on a fight with our lockdown and skill interruption and cooldown lengthening powers?

Thanks!

If you want a control class with a lot of options, Roll a thief or Necro or Ele or Warrior or Engineer or maybe even Guardian.. honestly…

Mesmers in WvW and PvP can still use Lock down builds, but in the WvW zerg where mass stability is a thing make Control a crap shoot… additionally our single AoE control spell is also completely Random. You wont be making a difference in zerg vs zerg combat with lock downs.

PvP its more viable to go PU specially after the sword 3 fix, but its something that can still be worked to an advantage. We are not a highly requested class apart from Boon removals and Portal in higher end match ups here.. Shatters are the most optimal way to achieve this so don’t expect to be anyone first choice with lock down.

Power Block as a trait is very murky if you haven’t used it yet. Here’s what it offers.

Interrupted Skill gains 5 extra seconds of cd before it can be retried.

What it doesn’t tell you.

Interrupted Skills already get kitten cd applied to them no matter what class just interrupted it.

The interrupted skill must not be an auto attack or no CD will be applied

The interrupted skill must not be any thief weapon skill or the CD is not applied

Mesmer Interrupts are easy to chain and then all stuck on very long and inconsistent CD’s themselves.

Interrupting as a hobby is a kitten kitten ton harder than it was in Gw1 where Many skills had a 1 1/2s Cast time with a Cast Bar and a Casting Animation, in Gw2 many skills are Instant cast or under 1s Cast time with No Cast Bar and Minimal to Grandeur Animations.

Often Lock Down builds don’t aim to interrupt more than 1 or 2 key skills due to the above and use interrupts instead to set off Chaotic Interruption and Immobilize their target.

PU isn’t the only option. You can still play staff + greatsword shatter.

Mesmer is a complete wreck at the moment. A lot of people are leaving now, raging ect. And it is justified, but Anet will soon realize that they keep wrecking something that is unique to themselves instead of babying it. A lot of us are currently going to level a second character, at thief, engineer or w/e to play until mehmer is in better shape. We won’t give up, don’t worry that you’ve leveled a class that is gone now, you will be intrigued by the class, like we all are. Take a look at the ‘Success of Mesmer’ thread to give yourself some hope if needed.
Have a wonderful rest of the day mate, things will be better!
Much love,

~Monns

Veruah.5302:

Are we needed in WvW

Not unless veilbotting counts.

Veruah.5302:

/PvP?

Definitely not needed.

Veruah.5302:

Can we make a legitimate impact on a fight with our lockdown and skill interruption and cooldown lengthening powers?

In WvW? No, not a chance. In PvP? Maybe, but not for sure.

You can make an impact on a fight with lockdown for sure. Let’s say there’s an enemy bunker on point, he is somewhat low and you notice he is healing. You interrupt the heal, while the heal comes off cooldown, you can interrupt it again, but he should be dead by then.
In a WvW fight, you can make a difference, but not just because you’re lockdown. Basically you do so by maybe putting veil down to stealth your zerg for the second to give yourselves an upper hand, you can portal people out of the fight to reset, maybe portal your zerg inside a keep you were in while it was being captured, put down timewarp so your zergs actions are much faster than the enemy zerg ect. It does help out a lot, but you can do that with all mesmer builds.
No class is really needed in PvP. You can do a match without every class. Mesmer is great in PvP if you build a team around the mesmer.

Hah, so all of this sounds like why play a Mesmer then. I’ve already felt some Mesmer hate in even story mode dungeons (being kicked for a Guardian) so I know we aren’t the most loved there.

At face value Mesmer seemed like the control/disruption profession of choice in the game with all of the on interrupt traits and almost every weapon set having access to some form of daze, stun, or knockdown/pull. Eh, guess I am wrong.

So, if Mesmer blows at… mesmerizing people… what control option is there for PvP? I haven’t really looked into thief or engineer much.

Whoa. o_O I know the sword 3 change was harsh but jeez, Swish.

@Veruah: Lockdown Mesmer used to be the top Mesmer build in PvP for a short time, after the recent changes it’s no longer at the very top because of, as usual, Thieves being a hard counter to Mesmer. Lockdown Mesmer are still a strong choice in the right hands, but are also still one of the hardest Mesmer builds to learn to play properly.

In WvW there’s different types of players: Solo Roamers (lone players running around making a difference), Small Group Roamers (Group of players running around making a difference), and Zerglings (Large blobs) pretty much. Lockdown Mesmer fit in best with a small group, but can solo roam decently depending on the build.

In PvP lockdown Mesmers work well when played well: singling out the right targets, interrupting heals and channeled skills, boon stipping/vuln stacking, ect. They’re very strong in 1v1 fights but work well in groups. You can and definitely should still shatter, but wherekittenter Mesmer shatter primarily for damage first/utility second, your shattering is aimed to strip boons first/damage second. Depending on the build you can aim disrupt groups or focus on locking a single target out of the fight. To answer your questions specifically:

• Are we needed in WvW/PvP Well … Not really, but the same could be said for most Mesmer builds at this point. It’s not that we’re not useful or can’t make a difference, but moreso that the roles that are “needed” (Bunker, Roamer, ect. depending on the gametype) can be filled by other classes. At the same time, no other class is as good as lockdown as Mesmer besides Engineer.

• Can we make a legit impact in a fight with our control abilities Most definitely. One of the things that’s good about Lockdown Mesmer is that a skilled control Mesmer can lockdown multiple opponents at once or lockdown one opponent while doing damage to the others. This combined with our boonstripping, the option to take portal, and good damage make us very able to swing fights in our team’s favor. Keep in mind though as a general rule, the smaller the fight the more effective the Mesmer is. (Power Block is kind of a let down though)

Swish brings up a good point: “Mesmer Interrupts are easy to chain and then all stuck on very long and inconsistent CD’s themselves.” This is one of the biggest mistakes a new lockdown Mesmer can make. It’s really fun and pretty rewarding to chain together your lockdown skills to keep an opponent stuck for an aggravatingly long time, but try not to get into such a habit. It’s better -but of course more difficult- to space out your interrupts and hold on to some (like a charge of Power Lock) to snuff key skills.

Shatter is the go-to build if you’re looking to be as meta-friendly and straightforward as possible and PU (defensive stealth-focused) builds can also work if you play intelligently. Lockdown Mesmer are uncommon, and good lockdown Mesmer are even less common, but the style is still fun and effective and can definitely be made to work when used properly… just not in Zergs or PvE. x.x

@Chaos I’ve read a lot of your lockdown stuff as I’ve been leveling up. I come from a past of playing Enchanter in EQ so lockdown casters have always been a draw for me. Since I am so close to 80 I figure I may as well finish it out and see how it goes. I guess with the sword nerf I will try to make a GS/Staff lockdown build work.

@Swish I never realized how many limitations Power Block had. I figured it probably couldn’t lock out a #1 skill. Suddenly the other grandmaster trait there looks a lot more appealing (Chaotic Suggestions I think?).

I wouldn’t say we’re needed per se in PvP or WvW, but I can say that playing lockdown in those formats is still rewarding and a lot of fun. This coming from the perspective of more casual play (soloq/zergs).

There are generally more effective builds you can run, but don’t let that stop you from playing this style if it interests you.

Veruah.5302:

@Chaos I’ve read a lot of your lockdown stuff as I’ve been leveling up. I come from a past of playing Enchanter in EQ so lockdown casters have always been a draw for me. Since I am so close to 80 I figure I may as well finish it out and see how it goes. I guess with the sword nerf I will try to make a GS/Staff lockdown build work.

@Swish I never realized how many limitations Power Block had. I figured it probably couldn’t lock out a #1 skill. Suddenly the other grandmaster trait there looks a lot more appealing (Chaotic Suggestions I think?).

To be honest, all that stuff about viability and how important a specific setup is only really starts to matter at the most competitive levels of PvP. In most cases you’ll be fine as long as your build is solid and you’re of decent skill. More often then not people like to blame the meta for their own personal faults. “Of course I lost, you’re a Hambow warrior.” or “Play a spec that takes skill” are usually the warcries of a wounded ego.

If you play lockdown Mesmer and you’re good at it, you’ll definitely be able to control opponents, you’ll have fun, and you will definitely find whatever way you need to be effective. Everything else is noise.

(Also, I’m still sticking with Sword/Focus – Staff. 1h Sword isn’t broken or bad in PvP, we just lost some of our fancy techniques with it.)

I use lockdown from time to time. If you aim for disabling enemies, this build is very effective against Necro and Ele due to their limited stability and a lot of their skills have >0.5-1 cast time, plus these two classes need to constantly use skills. On the other hand, supposed that no stability or any anti CC are involved, lockdown is still pretty strong against Warrior and Engineer. Mesmer is the hardest to lock because most of its skills have very low cast time, are very hard to read and mesmers don’t have that many skills or combo to use to begin with. Against Ranger, it kinda depends on what weapon it is using, if it’s a longbow then it’s easy to interrupt, other than that, not much. For a thief, you don’t aim for disabling, you aim for interrupting damage. If you can land 3-4 consecutive hits of interrupt, that thief is pretty much either dead or almost dead. Guardian is almost immune to interrupt due to constant stability/invul/blind/block so that’s out of the picture.

I’m beginning to think Mesmers should have infinitely more interrupts.