Guild Wars 2

Is that really it… shatter for spvp/tpvp. One build for the past 2 years now with little to no variation.

Can someone who knows this class please offer up something with a different play style that is not condi pu…

We’ve tried… Sorry bro

Try lockdown, we"ll see how condition shatter does after update. Conquest limits the variety.

CI lockdown builds do well.

My main tpvp Mesmer build is a 0/4/6/4/0 hybrid support build. vigorous shatters for support. CI for the AOE lockdowns. S. Inspiration for the massive boon sharing. IT works pretty kitten well in all of my teams.

4/4/6 CI lockdown does work and is slightly different playstyle. But basically you fill the same role in the team kittenter. It’s less of we have one build, and more of Mesmer only fits one role. On the plus side, both builds are super fun, even 2 years on :P

It’s not that Shatter is a bad thing, rather that there’s no flexibility in shatter builds. 4 4 0 0 6 works because it’s 4 4 0 0 6. You can’t take anything away from the setup because at that point it ceases working. You also can’t build for any alternate kind of shatter because either the options aren’t there, or it wouldn’t work.

Change DE somehow, create more shatter based trait effects throughout the trait lines, and you could potentially make new builds that not only make use of the core mechanic, but work.

44600 lockdown with staff + gs is an alternative, quite a good one, though you do not see it used much. At least I haven’t, excluding the times when I used it.
This is my build. I swap quite a few things depending on the enemy team comp. Sometimes I replace portal with decoy, moa with mass invis (though moa is a perfect lockdown skill, even though very cheesy is good against guardians, MM necros, thieves ect.) and in traits, I swap bountiful interruption with chaotic dampening or mirrored anguish (anguish if there is a thief in the enemy team, meaning somewhat often and chaotic if there are just generally a DPS comp)
Lockdown can also be used with staff + sw/x or gs + sw/x but staff + gs combo is superior to me.. Both work well, just personal preference.

Well there is 1 viable condi build for mes: clone death

The teamfight pressure is significantly lower than a shatter mesmer’s, but can easily take most fights on sidenodes.

Lockdown IMO is just a weaker version of shatter.

witcher.3197:

Well there is 1 viable condi build for mes: clone death

The teamfight pressure is significantly lower than a shatter mesmer’s, but can easily take most fights on sidenodes.

Lockdown IMO is just a weaker version of shatter.

Lockdown is counter play while shatter is full offense,lockdown is more tanky than shatter,and lockdown uses passive phntasms use while shatter use for insta burst+shatter. So yeah they both the same lol.

Sandrox.9524:

witcher.3197:

Well there is 1 viable condi build for mes: clone death

The teamfight pressure is significantly lower than a shatter mesmer’s, but can easily take most fights on sidenodes.

Lockdown IMO is just a weaker version of shatter.

Lockdown is counter play while shatter is full offense,lockdown is more tanky than shatter,and lockdown uses passive phntasms use while shatter use for insta burst+shatter. So yeah they both the same lol.

If you are talking aout the 4/4/6 lockdown: same weapons, same amulet, only 1 utility that’s different, and most of the traits are the same too. Plus you do use your shatter skills. Not saying it’s the same, just very similar still less effective than shatter.

i am using condi build 0,4,4,2,4 staff+sc/p
can do some 1v2 on a point till allies come and support with lots of condi pressure and interrupt res etc

also 6,4,0,0,4 condirupter for more support role

fun to play

w8ing to the shatter condi to test it as for now not very strong as the above builds

As much as I’m an advocate for build diversity, I see no problem with shatter being the top build for PvP. You can play any build you want and do ok more or less depending on whether you play in NA or EU. But honestly shatter is a high skill cap build to play to a high level and that is an important thing, bad shatter players are a useless asset to your team, good ones are essential (not technically but you get what I mean).

witcher.3197:

Sandrox.9524:

witcher.3197:

Well there is 1 viable condi build for mes: clone death

The teamfight pressure is significantly lower than a shatter mesmer’s, but can easily take most fights on sidenodes.

Lockdown IMO is just a weaker version of shatter.

Lockdown is counter play while shatter is full offense,lockdown is more tanky than shatter,and lockdown uses passive phntasms use while shatter use for insta burst+shatter. So yeah they both the same lol.

If you are talking aout the 4/4/6 lockdown: same weapons, same amulet, only 1 utility that’s different, and most of the traits are the same too. Plus you do use your shatter skills. Not saying it’s the same, just very similar still less effective than shatter.

Same weapons same amulet only one different utility.. There’s a lot of builds that sound like that. And Shatter can run any weaponset comfortably besides scepter, same for lockdown (er.. besides torch).

When you played lockdown, how long did you play it for and did you play it coming off of a shatter build? Because if so, then I can see why you’d feel that way.

Shatter and Lockdown do not play with the same goals or mindset. If you were trying to play it like shatter, and expecting the same results kittenter.. well, there’s the problem.

@OP: Shatter is “mandatory” for Mesmer only at the highest levels of competitive play. It does work very well, but it is not the only build you can be successful with. My two favorite builds, thath ave worked well and are surprisingly strong, are the 4/4/6 CI lockdown and the 0/4/6/4/0 Boonshare

Not a complaint more than just a comment: I think it says something that what many people consider to be the only “real” PvP build is shatter, and that shatter is the build and play style that least resembles the GW1 mesmer.

Yes Lockdown works and can work very well, but the point above stands.

I wish the “meta” mesmer build were something that actually felt like a mesmer from GW1. To me shatter has no resemblance to the class I loved in GW1. Yes it is very hard to play very well, and it is tons of fun to watch, but it’s mesmer in name only imo.

Just a tangential thought on this topic. Not a critique of shatter at all! Just a critique of how the mesmer in GW2 has diverged from the mesmer in GW1.

MSFone.3026:

Not a complaint more than just a comment: I think it says something that what many people consider to be the only “real” PvP build is shatter…

I think that most people are parroting what drips down from high-level players, and I don’t mean that in a bad way.

I know that I personally cannot say with 100% certainty that shatter is the best, because I have never had the chance to test it in all formats. And by the best I mean: Works the most effectively different team comps.

And that makes me wonder a few other things: Can Mesmers really only play one role? (I highly doubt it) How many different team comps have been attempted? Who was doing the testing at the time and how long did they spend learning the ins and outs of other builds?

To quote supcutie (who’s come to be like a mentor to me) from a while ago..

Supcutie.2538:

The short of it skcamow, is that between Helseth and I, we have tried what we and many believe to be every possible variation that we thought could be viable.

PU Shatter, PU condi, regular shatter, confounding shatter, mantra shatter, phantasm, gs/staff gs/s-f gs/s-t, gs/staff, lockdown, clone death, signets, bunker/bruiser, others I can’t think of off the top of my head.
We basically tried them all in high end team play and we talked about it back and forth. I’ve compared numbers/ideas/theorycrafting between team mates and many players I trust and respect. Mesmers just simply aren’t a good choice, when you can be replaced by a Thief if you don’t have one (or play Warrior, Ranger, Guardian – the sPvP Holy Trinity.)

I still believe that you can be on a winning team with a Mesmer (relating to what Helseth said about how the competition is bad enough that the shortfalls of Mesmer haven’t become as apparent as they should be), but it’s a handicap that you don’t need and often means not getting first place when instead you can pick a different class to avoid losing.

It’s important to note that Mesmer isn’t underpowered, but rather overshadowed by Thief. Same problem with Ele – overshadowed by Thief.

The idea that the community isn’t innovative has been thrown around and that the lack of innovation is the cause of Mesmers being not viable. But I can assure you, my team has tried to accommodate me, and I have kept an extremely open mind about potential builds and Mesmer roles, doubly confirmed by Helseth (who has specifically tried for an extended period to make Mesmer work in higher end team play after myself and the rest of us kind of abandoned) and a few other Mesmers that I think can adequately come to those conclusions. Helseth knows that Mesmer isn’t ideal, but that’s what he wants to play and he has been able to convince his team mates to let him continue trying.

Hopefully the March patch brings some new wind into the sails of Mesmers, because currently if you want an absolute tier 1 team composition, core requirements don’t include Mesmer.

I don’t mean to get off-topic from the original post, but I think you could argue this is somewhat related to motivation.

If you want to play Mesmer currently, play it in hot joins and solo queue, but don’t expect to be able to win everything.
If you want to win in team queue, learn Ranger, Warrior, Thief, or Guardian.

Supcutie.2538:

I think at the least I spent a whole day on each really trying, and most multiple days of team queuing. Which might seem short but I think I was able to play them to prob 80-90% efficiency based on videos I had watched, knowledge I had about other people playing the spec, with the help of my team mates, general understanding of mechanics, and what things I can do integrating my own experiences and ideas.

Most promise: Shatter with S/T, Shatter with Staff/GS, Shatter with Confounding Suggestions and 20 inspiration w/ heal mantra, Phantasm can work if you’re not focusing on team fights, but it can get overwhelmed easily.

Basically all the others fell short in some way like not enough damage, not enough disengage, not enough ranged damage, not enough efficiency.
You need enough damage to be a threat, but you need enough survivability to keep going. This really only leaves a few actual good candidates.

Now this was BEFORE Thieves got nerfed and Mesmers saw improvements. Even then there was potential build diversity for us (despite being overshadowed) I feel like most of the current opinions of shatter dominating every other spec comes from a tradition of us being dominated by Thieves (which, while still a problem, doesn’t mean we only have ONE build to go with).

Ross Biddle.2367:

It’s not that Shatter is a bad thing, rather that there’s no flexibility in shatter builds. 4 4 0 0 6 works because it’s 4 4 0 0 6. You can’t take anything away from the setup because at that point it ceases working.

Exactly. Nobody use GM : Bountiful Disillusionment, Restorative Illusions, Shattered Conditions, Imbued Diversion (Why use this one when you have IP on the same branch and Mantra of Distraction do the same work?). IP and DE are nearly obligations in shatter builds.

MSFone.3026:

Not a complaint more than just a comment: I think it says something that what many people consider to be the only “real” PvP build is shatter, and that shatter is the build and play style that least resembles the GW1 mesmer.

Yes Lockdown works and can work very well, but the point above stands.

I wish the “meta” mesmer build were something that actually felt like a mesmer from GW1. To me shatter has no resemblance to the class I loved in GW1. Yes it is very hard to play very well, and it is tons of fun to watch, but it’s mesmer in name only imo.

Just a tangential thought on this topic. Not a critique of shatter at all! Just a critique of how the mesmer in GW2 has diverged from the mesmer in GW1.

Power Block would’ve been a promising alternative but it basically got gutted on release.

witcher.3197:

Sandrox.9524:

witcher.3197:

Well there is 1 viable condi build for mes: clone death

The teamfight pressure is significantly lower than a shatter mesmer’s, but can easily take most fights on sidenodes.

Lockdown IMO is just a weaker version of shatter.

Lockdown is counter play while shatter is full offense,lockdown is more tanky than shatter,and lockdown uses passive phntasms use while shatter use for insta burst+shatter. So yeah they both the same lol.

If you are talking aout the 4/4/6 lockdown: same weapons, same amulet, only 1 utility that’s different, and most of the traits are the same too. Plus you do use your shatter skills. Not saying it’s the same, just very similar still less effective than shatter.

1.You dont use torch for lockdown.So that is differ weapons.
2.Your build is way way differ.
3.lockdown ususally better use rune of the mesmer,while shatter is better str or trav.differ runeset.

Shatter have different role than lockdown.When I run shatter,I always aware of my clones-enemies position,while on lockdown I dont bother and jsut let my phntasams tick health pools,while countring attacks and kite around.For me,it is more like phantasam build with more countring benefical element.

This is my CI/shatter hybrid build. I use it when I feel too lazy to play shatter. I think if you trait PU, you can play this build full glass cannon. I can’t afford the new gear so I use knights/soldiers, but I personally know then build well enough to play it full glass. It’s a fun build which is also somewhat out of the ordinary. I will have to say, its not as good as a pure shatter build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhMQRAsa7PGx2YM9DRkBKTqqSGwwA-T1CEAB2t/ATK/6SJoiqcIxDAoDtDtpDoR1RA4EA8wBBohjAAA-w