Guild Wars 2

talking about 1 v 1 here.

you can look at my sig what i have played. I also have been dueling a lot of mesmers … win some lose some. I decided to make one my 7th lv 80 character. I just used my B day scroll and around 80k spvp glory to make it up to lv 80 in no time …

anyway i started in spvp first. It was surprisingly easy mode for me. i didn’t spend a lot of time studying the class though. using Riot – mesmer build

spam clone – spam conditions ( 600 – 900 range ) – stealth if they get close to me …
( get close sometime to put some nuke )
keep repeat this simple concept until my opponent is dead ….
barely need to brink … or well i barely even touch F1 – F4 skills

with 4 stealth and a few block – evade – pull blablabla If you manage timing well you could kite for a long time ….

i dont even wanna log in mesmer now lol i feel like im totally cheating..

They probably need to ad longer cd on that Decoy , The prestige …

Was no one biting your posts in the sPvP forum?

no idea i didn’t check but im talking about general here even dueling OS or Windmil

u r just too good

Well, troll. No.

1v1 is certainly something that Mesmers excel at but you can beat the bad ones pretty easily.

raid buffs then plxxxxxxxx

u must be talking about a pu build. f1-f4 doesnt need to be used all the time. some builds rely on having them up all the time. a mes is good at confusing the enemy and if played right very strong in 1v1, but i have seen mes in spvp using pu builds and failing miserably. its a newer build so other classes gotta learn how to fight …once they figured it out it will become a loooot harder for u to be so strong. same with thief, people had to learn and die to it a hundret times before the figured out the pattern of the attacks and the counters.

I’ll play. Look at my signature, I have a good amount of 80’s. I disagree that mesmers are “too easy”. That medal would go to warrior.

PU builds and some phantasm builds are easy to play against people who do not know how to counter those, beside PU build, i dont think thats counterable imo

I’ll entertain this question seriously when I run a PvP match that does not have at least two barely-sentient warriors running around stunlocking everything and spamming entire cap points with fire fields.

As 1v1 isn’t a designed combat mode, it doesn’t really matter. Most builds which are aimed at 1v1 are absolutely terrible at any serious gameplay, so it balances quite nicely, too.

Try a traditionnal shatter build. You’ll see if mesmer is “easy”. Non-Pu builds are riskier but way more rewarding and fun imho.

try this in high end tpvp

No class is to easy or too hard to play. Granted there can be complications of play style and mechanics. However that only means that the difficulty would vary from person to person but would not have a definitive difficulty level.

Builds, specific traits, and specific skills on the other hand. Do have a definitive difficulty level and a definitive effectiveness level. >skill to effectiveness ratio.

As far as I am concerned every class has a meta build for a specific situation if not all around use.
These builds are meta because they allow the player to reach the same effectiveness as another build(if not exceed it). but with less a need of skill IN Order to reach that effectiveness.

Because the game is not yet balanced perfectly(probably never will be). There will most certainly be bits and parts of a class that is to powerful or too week.

Granted if a class has a lot of viable builds with a roughly equal skill to effectiveness ratio the meta will be harder to see.
But it’s still there so long as there is a build with a lower-skill to higher-effectiveness ratio then the average build. After taking in to consideration the situation that is being used.

So if you want to know if the mesmer is easy to play
My answer would be no.
However i can point you to the specific things that make mesmer seem easy to play.

And if you want to know if the mesmer is too hard to play
My answer would be no
However I can point you to specific things that make the mesmer seem hard to play.

This ideology can be applied to any class

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Isn-t-Mesmer-too-easy/3437421

elementalist is hard to play, tried every class w nearly every common possible build in pvp and i gotta say that elementalists srsly impossible to play unless u take ur sweet time . well it is kinda rewarding, their burst is insane

tss how u ppl actually make that reply thing, i can only manage to get a link of it unless i copypaste

PU mesmers are extremely easy to play, probably strongest and easiest class to do well 1v1 with. Just whittle down your opponents health whilst staying in stealth.

Honestly though….it’s boring. I can see why people play it, they don’t have the ability to do well with high risk, high return burst classes. It’s the go to spec for them.

I tried it for a little, but after one play session instantly switched to the burst shatter spec, big numbers! pretty fragile!, but oh so much more fun rather than ‘watch my bleeds/torment/confusion moderately slowly kill you…weeeee….’

Also…pretty poor in zerg fighting, you’re just a leech.

phaeris.7604:

Honestly though….it’s boring. I can see why people play it, they don’t have the ability to do well with high risk, high return burst classes. It’s the go to spec for them.

You know, it would be nice if people could at least entertain the possibility that some folks actually prefer this playstyle. I’ll freely admit that it’s easier than a shatter build, but since everyone flatly states a good shatter player is stronger, I would invest the time to learn it if I enjoyed that style.

I don’t.

I was attracted to the mesmer because it is the only class I’ve ever seen in an MMO that is somewhat similar to the illusionist specialty wizard in D&D. I like the idea of a character that deceives, confuses and confounds his opponents, frustrating them into making mistakes and turning their offense around on them. The PU/phantasm build I run allows me to do that.

In contrast, shatter builds IMO just turn illusions into yet another way of damage delivery. Every one I’ve tried has been fairly “in your face” about how the opponent is fought, and while still involving more misdirection than something like a warrior, I found it much less interesting to play. Challenging, perhaps, but not my thing, because it’s not in keeping with how I envision the class.

If they nerf PU or whatever I’m not going to just start playing shatter. I’ll find a way to adapt, or play something else.

phaeris.7604:

PU mesmers are extremely easy to play, probably strongest and easiest class to do well 1v1 with. Just whittle down your opponents health whilst staying in stealth.

Honestly though….it’s boring. I can see why people play it, they don’t have the ability to do well with high risk, high return burst classes. It’s the go to spec for them.

I tried it for a little, but after one play session instantly switched to the burst shatter spec, big numbers! pretty fragile!, but oh so much more fun rather than ‘watch my bleeds/torment/confusion moderately slowly kill you…weeeee….’

Also…pretty poor in zerg fighting, you’re just a leech.

Lol you’re wrong on that. Some people actually wanna kill 1v3 and survive longer than 30mins. That’s why they play PU instead of shatter. Shatter is not a roaming spec, neither a raid spec neither a pve spec and neither a tpvp spec. It’s a spec that can be used everywhere, but will never shine out to be ’’op’’. That’s probably the reason people prefer to pick specs where they can survive and kill with rather than kill and die a few moments later because of lack of mobility and condition removal.

And for the record, I play both and find both not really hard to play.

Qaelyn.7612:

phaeris.7604:

Honestly though….it’s boring. I can see why people play it, they don’t have the ability to do well with high risk, high return burst classes. It’s the go to spec for them.

You know, it would be nice if people could at least entertain the possibility that some folks actually prefer this playstyle. I’ll freely admit that it’s easier than a shatter build, but since everyone flatly states a good shatter player is stronger, I would invest the time to learn it if I enjoyed that style.

I don’t.

I was attracted to the mesmer because it is the only class I’ve ever seen in an MMO that is somewhat similar to the illusionist specialty wizard in D&D. I like the idea of a character that deceives, confuses and confounds his opponents, frustrating them into making mistakes and turning their offense around on them. The PU/phantasm build I run allows me to do that.

In contrast, shatter builds IMO just turn illusions into yet another way of damage delivery. Every one I’ve tried has been fairly “in your face” about how the opponent is fought, and while still involving more misdirection than something like a warrior, I found it much less interesting to play. Challenging, perhaps, but not my thing, because it’s not in keeping with how I envision the class.

If they nerf PU or whatever I’m not going to just start playing shatter. I’ll find a way to adapt, or play something else.

That’s extremely fair, but I’d rather getting that illusive playstyle to be effective was difficult. You make it sound really fun and interesting, but it is undoubtedly facerolly right now. The implementation is kind of poor for a competitive game.

Well, I don’t find it “facerolly” at all. Maybe I’m just not up to the 00berl33tz skillz of some of you.

Qaelyn, people prefer that playstyle because it’s easier. Like all things in life people gravitate to what is most effective yet easiest to play. The path of least resistance.

When a PU mesmer beats me, i’m generally like ‘Just another PU mesmer….meh.’. When a thief/engineer/ele beats me, i’m usually ‘That guy was pretty kitten ed good.’

That’s the difference. Skill caps. PU mesmer has low skillcaps. Classes like D/d eles have high skillcaps. That’s why I see one very good d/d ele to every shedload of similar skilled PU mesmers.

You don’t have to be ashamed of playing it dude, you have to play whatever style suits your ability. You just have to accept the fact that you’ll be PU mesmer #38913890213.

phaeris.7604:

Qaelyn, people prefer that playstyle because it’s easier.

Well, sure glad I wrote all about my personal experiences so you could basically ignore all of it and imply that I’m not being honest.

phaeris.7604:

When a PU mesmer beats me, i’m generally like ‘Just another PU mesmer….meh.’. When a thief/engineer/ele beats me, i’m usually ‘That guy was pretty kitten ed good.’

Whatever lets you sleep at night, I guess.

Heh. Ok, here’s what I always say to people in games like this. If you’re playing other classes and don’t seem to do very well, then pick class X, and all of a sudden you’re performing amazingly, it’s not you.

Not that I’m saying this is what occurred with you…. but it’s an easy way to tell if a class/spec is op’d.

Actually, some ppl can be extremely good at playing ranged classes but horrible at melee, so that statement is not 100% correct.
I rather find shatter underpowered and PU balanced if we look at the whole game. PU is only usefull in roaming, shatter can be used anywhere, but in most cases not worth using.

BlackDevil.9268:

Actually, some ppl can be extremely good at playing ranged classes but horrible at melee, so that statement is not 100% correct.
I rather find shatter underpowered and PU balanced if we look at the whole game. PU is only usefull in roaming, shatter can be used anywhere, but in most cases not worth using.

What? Shatter is incredibly useful. Portal + Boon Removal + Lots of Vuln + AoE Dazes + Lots of stomps + Chaotic battlefield? Hell yeah, I’ll take that on my team.

PU Mesmer is undoubtedly easier to play than shatter. That being said, both builds have the incredibly high skill cap that is characteristic of the Mesmer class.

It’s definitely possible that many PU players don’t full explore the possibilities or flexibility of the build, simply because it isn’t necessary most of the time. However, that potential still exists. It simply shows through in a different way than in a shatter build.

A high skill player in a shatter build will play their build effectively, provide heavy burst and boon stripping support for their team. A high skill player in a PU build will force the enemy team to dedicate 2 or more players to a single point in order to prevent losing it rapidly, and can effectively duel on a point without the use of excessive stealth to prevent a decap.

The skill cap is still high, and anyone claiming otherwise is simply trying to make themselves feel superior for playing a different build, which is honestly just disgusting.

Qaelyn.7612:

phaeris.7604:

Honestly though….it’s boring. I can see why people play it, they don’t have the ability to do well with high risk, high return burst classes. It’s the go to spec for them.

You know, it would be nice if people could at least entertain the possibility that some folks actually prefer this playstyle. I’ll freely admit that it’s easier than a shatter build, but since everyone flatly states a good shatter player is stronger, I would invest the time to learn it if I enjoyed that style.

I don’t.

I was attracted to the mesmer because it is the only class I’ve ever seen in an MMO that is somewhat similar to the illusionist specialty wizard in D&D. I like the idea of a character that deceives, confuses and confounds his opponents, frustrating them into making mistakes and turning their offense around on them. The PU/phantasm build I run allows me to do that.

In contrast, shatter builds IMO just turn illusions into yet another way of damage delivery. Every one I’ve tried has been fairly “in your face” about how the opponent is fought, and while still involving more misdirection than something like a warrior, I found it much less interesting to play. Challenging, perhaps, but not my thing, because it’s not in keeping with how I envision the class.

If they nerf PU or whatever I’m not going to just start playing shatter. I’ll find a way to adapt, or play something else.

Nail on the head.

Pure shatter – though it can be elegant – is all IN YOUR FACE – BOOM BOOM BOOM! I admire people who can play it well, and I do like IP as a trait, but the playstyle has never done it for me.
Similarly with pure phantasms – I find it a bit boring letting them do all the damage.
I’ve gone off condition builds completely – just don’t find it enjoyable – much prefer direct damage.

With PU and direct damage and utilities (ie manipulations) from the player (with additional utility/damage from shatters) I get the playstyle I like – lots of vanishing acts, tricking the enemy, combine with say MH sword for “flurry and vanish” – it just ticks all the boxes. It feels like an illusionist rather than a pet or bomber class.

If I could swap out phantasms on weapon sets for direct damage attacks from the player (ie, swap iwarlock for confusing images), I’d be very happy.

Pyroatheist.9031:

PU Mesmer is undoubtedly easier to play than shatter. That being said, both builds have the incredibly high skill cap that is characteristic of the Mesmer class.

It’s definitely possible that many PU players don’t full explore the possibilities or flexibility of the build, simply because it isn’t necessary most of the time. However, that potential still exists. It simply shows through in a different way than in a shatter build.

A high skill player in a shatter build will play their build effectively, provide heavy burst and boon stripping support for their team. A high skill player in a PU build will force the enemy team to dedicate 2 or more players to a single point in order to prevent losing it rapidly, and can effectively duel on a point without the use of excessive stealth to prevent a decap.

The skill cap is still high, and anyone claiming otherwise is simply trying to make themselves feel superior for playing a different build, which is honestly just disgusting.

Exactly.
Some PU builds are easier than others. PU can make a player a little more lazy than if playing full burst shatter while still maintaining moderate effectiveness, but that is down to the player.

Also just because of having prestige/decoy/MI (veil isn’t really necessary with prestige on 24s, unless needed by a group – I’d rather have condition removal/boon strip in pvp or something like signet of domination in wvw) doesn’t mean you are or have to be in stealth all the time – I find myself out of stealth a lot, applying pressure through shatters/direct damage/phantasms, and using stealths to either conceal a burst, heal or break target when under (a lot of) pressure. It’s survivability, which allows you to continuously harass up to 1v3 (depending on enemy skill) on a point, freeing your team up for other tasks.

Also great for playing medic (with a staff of course).

The Gates Assassin.9827:

BlackDevil.9268:

Actually, some ppl can be extremely good at playing ranged classes but horrible at melee, so that statement is not 100% correct.
I rather find shatter underpowered and PU balanced if we look at the whole game. PU is only usefull in roaming, shatter can be used anywhere, but in most cases not worth using.

What? Shatter is incredibly useful. Portal + Boon Removal + Lots of Vuln + AoE Dazes + Lots of stomps + Chaotic battlefield? Hell yeah, I’ll take that on my team.

You’re talking about a build, not a spec. 1/2 of those things are able to do with a lot other specs.

Until other set it and forget it condi classes like necros and engis and mindless regen classes like warriors and spirit rangers get nerfed, I’m not going to feel bad about a PU mesmer whose damage is mitigated by anyone who is smart enough to not marinate in their breaking clones.

So yes a low skill condi PU is great vs nubs but once you start fighting better players it takes extreme amounts of skill (for example try fighting a mesmer who has played the spec). I see so many mesmers using scepter skill 2 randomly hoping im silly enough to trigger it(a skilled player would watch my animations and bust it when im in the middle of an attack).
Power PU is a lot less passive at lower lvls of play, but because its damage is not as easily mitigated by knowing the spec it doesn’t see the challenge spike from smarter players and becomes more of a gradual increase.

sick of anti-memser trolls on the forum…………but the writing is on the wall. Next balance patch will be painful. seeing as how much fun it is to play a hybrid PU build, i hope i’m wrong, or that at least the nerf to PU is small.

Pwent.2639:

So yes a low skill condi PU is great vs nubs but once you start fighting better players it takes extreme amounts of skill (for example try fighting a mesmer who has played the spec). I see so many mesmers using scepter skill 2 randomly hoping im silly enough to trigger it(a skilled player would watch my animations and bust it when im in the middle of an attack).
Power PU is a lot less passive at lower lvls of play, but because its damage is not as easily mitigated by knowing the spec it doesn’t see the challenge spike from smarter players and becomes more of a gradual increase.

great post.

Pyro, appreciate someone of your stature around here putting in a kind word for us lowly PUers.

Curunen.8729:

With PU and direct damage and utilities (ie manipulations) from the player (with additional utility/damage from shatters) I get the playstyle I like – lots of vanishing acts, tricking the enemy, combine with say MH sword for “flurry and vanish” – it just ticks all the boxes. It feels like an illusionist rather than a pet or bomber class.

If I could swap out phantasms on weapon sets for direct damage attacks from the player (ie, swap iwarlock for confusing images), I’d be very happy.

Funny you mention this as I’ve actually tried to move towards this style with builds that use Mantra of Pain on autoattack. The problem is that, at least for me, mantras are still too slow and clunky for the damage they do given what they cost in trait points.

Curunen.8729:

Also just because of having prestige/decoy/MI (veil isn’t really necessary with prestige on 24s, unless needed by a group – I’d rather have condition removal/boon strip in pvp or something like signet of domination in wvw) doesn’t mean you are or have to be in stealth all the time – I find myself out of stealth a lot, applying pressure through shatters/direct damage/phantasms, and using stealths to either conceal a burst, heal or break target when under (a lot of) pressure. It’s survivability, which allows you to continuously harass up to 1v3 (depending on enemy skill) on a point, freeing your team up for other tasks.

That’s largely how I try to play as well. And also why I use centaur runes, even though they aren’t ideal for this build – so I can move around faster.

One thing I am now starting to work on is greater use of shattering. It will never be a mainline of the playstyle but can definitely supplement it nicely when used wisely.

Relshdan.6854:

sick of anti-memser trolls on the forum…………but the writing is on the wall. Next balance patch will be painful. seeing as how much fun it is to play a hybrid PU build, i hope i’m wrong, or that at least the nerf to PU is small.

It’s already been buffed too much so a small nerf will be good.

As long as the +1second on all stealths and chance to get aegis is maintained, I’ll be satisfied.
I see no reason that regen or protection can’t stay – just need to either increase the refresh interval back to 2s, or reduce the boon duration down to 2.5s or so (or both).

@Qaelyn – yeah MoP untraited is a bit meh. I only like MoResolve because the line is awesome (unbroken, unshaken, resolved!) – I feel like I play better after hearing that!
I don’t use mantras otherwise, but I’d love to see new #1 – #5 skills for current weapons, that we can swap out as can be done with utilities.

If they nerf PU they better nerf all the braindead warrior (and to a lesser extent guardian and thief) builds that are running rampant all over the game even more. PU mesmers are one of the few things that makes all the drooling hambows and the glass thieves at least think twice. The game needs more counterplay, not less.

I will admit.. A crappy PU Mesmer who doesn’t even know their traits won’t beat me. A smart PU Mesmer who actively watches the conditions they’re applying (such as weakness) and manages them accordingly will; that right there shows that there is a skillcap and room for improvement.

The thing is, the condition damage isn’t the problem. Its that all that protection/stealth/running away builds such terrible habits. I have problems with people using the build going “Wow I’m so good right? =D” and then won’t pick up a shatter build for the same reason, “Shatter looks difficult…”

When I face a player who chooses PU for a specific reason, rather than to stroke their own ego, then I can respect that person. If you’re running the build with a specific goal in your team, like Pyro explained (zerg-tickling, decapping, ect.), then I can respect that you actually have more of a purpose than a roaming troll.

Does it take skill to be a good PU Mesmer vs a bad one? Yes, definitely. “Incredibly” high skillcap though? Can’t agree with that.

Qaelyn.7612:

If they nerf PU they better nerf all the braindead warrior (and to a lesser extent guardian and thief) builds that are running rampant all over the game even more. PU mesmers are one of the few things that makes all the drooling hambows and the glass thieves at least think twice. The game needs more counterplay, not less.

I agree, and also with regard to other class builds like warrior.

The problem is it seems to me there are too many players on the PU bandwagon at the moment, and things like shatter are quite neglected apart from loyal shatter players. Would be nice to even out the build distribution among the class, so in that way a minor PU nerf (or some compensating buff) would be a good thing.

Interesting… particularly since a PU Mesmer has no dps. For those of you who loose to PU Mesmer’s regularly; What is it that kills you?

Check your combat log and advise the rest of us on what skills contribute to your death. Is it similar to a CB /Cyclone/100B/WW combo? Perhaps a Toolkit pull/Grenade Barrage/Blunderbuss combo? Or a Cry of Frustration/Mirror Images/Mind Wrack? The aforementioned combos can dole out dps in the quadruple and quintuple digits. Does a PU Mesmer have a sextuple digit dps combo? Did I avoid it?

Is it PU itself? From my usage of PU it increases my invisibility by 1 sec and gives ‘A’ random boon… but what do I know? Perhaps your combat log reads XXX hits you for 7000 using Prismatic Understanding… What skill(s) does a PU Mesmer have that kills you?

The PU Mesmer’s I’ve come across use scepter 3 and scepter 1 (is this the skill that’s killing you?). They occasionally stick their arm out to block… (do you repeatedly hit their arm while they’re blocking?). And, sure, they may drop a Chaos Storm… do you stand in it for long periods of time? Can you move? Or, they may use a pistol and drop a duelist… Is pistol 4 OP? Does iDuelist unload on you too frequently?

I’ve heard that Crippling / Debilitating Dissipation may be a tad OP… but that would imply that you’re killing lots of clones. Do you find yourself crippled a lot and with tons of weakness when you fight PU Mesmer’s? Are you a clone killer? How does a PU Mesmer ‘actively watch’ their conditions (i.e. weakness)? Is it watching you kill clones? How do they actively manage confusion? Are you not a participant? You don’t want to participate in damaging yourself but it’s unavoidable?

What OP skill or combo does a PU Mesmer have? I’ve checked my combat log after every encounter I’ve had with a PU Mez and honestly, there is nothing that I’ve found particularly noteworthy. They use iMage and then depending on preference, either iDuelist or iWarlock. Is iMage the new iZerker? Should iMage dps be toned down?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

That’s extremely fair, but I’d rather getting that illusive playstyle to be effective was difficult. You make it sound really fun and interesting, but it is undoubtedly facerolly right now. The implementation is kind of poor for a competitive game.

A competitive game which isn’t based on single-character power. At all.

If I see a PU mesmer, he is doing it wrong.
If I don’t see a PU mesmer, I just walk away.
On mesmer stealth isn’t connected to damage increase.

Considering how passive PU condi mesmers are, I don’t see how you could say there’s a high skill cap on it. All you do is chain stealth and dodge more or less.

Usagi.4835:

Considering how passive PU condi mesmers are, I don’t see how you could say there’s a high skill cap on it. All you do is chain stealth and dodge more or less.

See, this is exactly what I’m talking about.

Can I run a PU build, spam stealth, dodge aimlessly, and win? Sure, but I can only win against players with incredibly low skill that have hardly any idea of the concept of counter play.

It doesn’t take skill to steamroll bad players with a PU build. The problem is that then those bad players that got steamrolled come to the forums and complain because they think that PU is overpowered and without skill.

Sorry, that’s not how it works. You got steamrolled without effort because you’re bad. PU takes skill against good players, and takes no skill against poor players. The whining on the forums about PU simply serves as a highly effective classification method for determining those players with skill, and those without.

@suedetooth: Well said.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Usagi.4835:

Considering how passive PU condi mesmers are, I don’t see how you could say there’s a high skill cap on it. All you do is chain stealth and dodge more or less.

See, this is exactly what I’m talking about.

Can I run a PU build, spam stealth, dodge aimlessly, and win? Sure, but I can only win against players with incredibly low skill that have hardly any idea of the concept of counter play.

It doesn’t take skill to steamroll bad players with a PU build. The problem is that then those bad players that got steamrolled come to the forums and complain because they think that PU is overpowered and without skill.

Sorry, that’s not how it works. You got steamrolled without effort because you’re bad. PU takes skill against good players, and takes no skill against poor players. The whining on the forums about PU simply serves as a highly effective classification method for determining those players with skill, and those without.

@suedetooth: Well said.

I hope you don’t mean me when you say “you’re bad”. I usually look to you as being one of the foremost mesmer experts in these subforums and you’re being pretty aggressive about it. :/

Note I didn’t say it was overpowered, but it is very strong. The problem is that it’s now erring on the side of overpowered because of, what I think, is good damage/pressure and good sustain/disengage, which isn’t even needed because PU mesmers have so much stealth, they just reposition for the next condi burst.

ALL builds need skill against good players, not just PU. And it was kind of redundant to ask people to check their combat logs (if you’re referring to PU condi mesmers), since condi ticks don’t show up there which I’m sure you know.

It’s kind of silly to also claim that whining on the forums is a good metric for separating the good and bad players; just because you don’t agree, there’s no need to invalidate someone else’s opinion.

Usagi.4835:

Pyroatheist.9031:

Usagi.4835:

Considering how passive PU condi mesmers are, I don’t see how you could say there’s a high skill cap on it. All you do is chain stealth and dodge more or less.

See, this is exactly what I’m talking about.

Can I run a PU build, spam stealth, dodge aimlessly, and win? Sure, but I can only win against players with incredibly low skill that have hardly any idea of the concept of counter play.

It doesn’t take skill to steamroll bad players with a PU build. The problem is that then those bad players that got steamrolled come to the forums and complain because they think that PU is overpowered and without skill.

Sorry, that’s not how it works. You got steamrolled without effort because you’re bad. PU takes skill against good players, and takes no skill against poor players. The whining on the forums about PU simply serves as a highly effective classification method for determining those players with skill, and those without.

@suedetooth: Well said.

I hope you don’t mean me when you say “you’re bad”. I usually look to you as being one of the foremost mesmer experts in these subforums and you’re being pretty aggressive about it. :/

Note I didn’t say it was overpowered, but it is very strong. The problem is that it’s now erring on the side of overpowered because of, what I think, is good damage/pressure and good sustain/disengage.

Because everyone is looking at it from 1 perspective. PU mesmer is only, and really only, good for roaming. It’s worthless in any other game type. Sure it might be really strong in roaming, but it’s not when you look at it from multiple perspectives.

BlackDevil.9268:

Because everyone is looking at it from 1 perspective. PU mesmer is only, and really only, good for roaming. It’s worthless in any other game type. Sure it might be really strong in roaming, but it’s not when you look at it from multiple perspectives.

I don’t see why you would look at it from any other perspective anyway; mesmers, regardless of build, are pretty redundant in zerg fights or anything larger than a small skirmish (aside from their utilities).

Mesmer too easy to play? That one would definitely go to Warrior and Thief. Warrior can just jump in and stunhammer you to death or 100b while shouting like a moose in heat; and usually just gets away without a scratch becomes impossible to catch. Thief just C&D+backstab you for all your health and remains invisible for the entire duration with equal means of getting away afterwards.

So please don’t say Mesmer having it easy just because you were killed by one. A good Mesmer actually has to work really hard for their kills, unlike easymode GS/HA Warrior and DD Thief in my opinion.

Usagi.4835:

BlackDevil.9268:

Because everyone is looking at it from 1 perspective. PU mesmer is only, and really only, good for roaming. It’s worthless in any other game type. Sure it might be really strong in roaming, but it’s not when you look at it from multiple perspectives.

I’m sure most mesmer builds are built for roaming or small skirmishes at least; they’re redundant in zergs for the most part, aside from utilities or ganking.

Not 100% true, but yes we gotta be good at something. Else we just turn into a 2nd ranger that’s useless in everything besides tpvp. So yeah, I guess that’s why we got PU. Maybe not the most enjoyable way to make mesmer ‘’good/superior’’ in something, but it sure was an easy way for anet to do.

Aveneo.2068:

Mesmer too easy to play? That one would definitely go to Warrior and Thief. Warrior can just jump in and stunhammer you to death or 100b while shouting like a moose in heat; and usually just gets away without a scratch becomes impossible to catch. Thief just C&D+backstab you for all your health and remains invisible for the entire duration with equal means of getting away afterwards.

So please don’t say Mesmer having it easy just because you were killed by one. A good Mesmer actually has to work really hard for their kills, unlike easymode GS/HA Warrior and DD Thief in my opinion.

Yea right, I’ve been dueling with the 20/20/30 pu builds in pvp and they’re probably the easiest to fight with amongst all of the classes I’ve played.

Now d/d ele or power ranger or shatter mesmer (but let’s be honest, out of the entire mesmer community maybe 5% IF THAT run shatter builds because pu is so broken and easy to play and get kills with), that’s working hard for your kills.

Mesmer is definitely more difficult to play than most professions in the game. Not all of them but most.

The build you played in particular usually tends to be easier to play than the average Mesmer build (by average I mean difficulty).

Here is a little secret though:
Every profession in the game has those “easy mode” builds.

Believe it or not, even eles have those builds. I use one of them myself right now to get back into PvP and I can tell you one thing: It usually crushes most condition spam builds.

The next time you play something new please don’t make such a statement before having more experience.