Guild Wars 2

So lately I have been playing a pure lockdown build. Used only one shatter (sometimes mindwrack) mostly diversion. I must say that this type of play style is very different. It’s been by far the hardest build I have had to adapt to as a mesmer (been playing since Nov. 2012). So I am just curious how the community thinks on this type of build… Is it the highest skill cap build mesmers have? Is it the highest skill cap build in the game?

I am thinking this because unlike other classes which only have bonuses against disabled enemies, our bonuses come only if we actually interrupt a trait. This means we have to time it to actually benefit our build. I feel like it is one of the first builds I have played where your timing significantly influences your reward. Another reason I say that it seems like it is a higher skill cap is our interrupts are on much much longer cooldowns than the bleeding hambow warriors.

So what does the mesmer community think? Is a 30/10/30/0/0 build the most challenging mesmer build to play but still significantly rewarding? How would you compare the skill cap of this build to other builds in this game.

Build I am using now:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQNAW8dlsnpBt1oxUNcrNSY6Rv9twJ9w0q+0lKcbA-TsAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNQYBxGBA

Helseth currently playing 20/20/30/0/0 with Haltering Strike, Shattered Concentration, Far-Reaching Manipulation, Deceptive Evasion, Debillitating Dissipation, Chaotic Dampening and Chaotic Interruption in TPvP.

If you want to see him play, you can watch him on www.hitbox.tv/helseth

In my opinion, all Mesmer builds have a comparable and effectively unreachable skill cap. The way that cap manifest itself is different for each build.

Lockdown builds have a uniquely high skill floor, which can be related to, but has no inherent relation to skill cap.

Every build have high skillcap. lock down is harder to learn than others. imo Shatter build has the highest skillcap. Because in theory you could win 1 v 4 or 5 if you played it perfect, however you really have to play at perfection to do it.

I play both of that playstile together (shut+lcd)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJAWRlknpMtNoxGNMrNig6B2BefHJFmWrVSBudhA-ToAg0CnIqRVjrGTNyas1M+Y9B

When I played with specific build for each playstile i can say Shutter is more skill required the Lockdown

A 20/20/30 is kind of a hybrid shatter/lockdown and plays pretty similarly. I think they are fairly equivalent.

A pure lockdown (in my opinion) of 30/x/30/x/x is more difficult to play than shatter. If you nail your interrupts you can counter probably 6 of 8 classes in this game, but if you miss anything you’re completely screwed. Lack of DE and escape mechanisms makes it a bit more unforgiving. If you are out of position you are in more trouble than you would be with a standard shatter build using blink, DE, and MI.

I would say that, yes, lockdown is the highest skillcap of Mesmer. You need better reflexes and skill usage awareness than a shatter mes needs, and it is more unforgiving towards mistakes.

Nettle.9025:

You need better reflexes and skill usage awareness than a shatter mes needs, and it is more unforgiving towards mistakes.

reflexes?? for what?? 50% of time enemie in stun. You have good deffence from staff and Chaos line. You don’t need be in close fight like shatter mesmer.

Nettle.9025:

I would say that, yes, lockdown is the highest skillcap of Mesmer. You need better reflexes and skill usage awareness than a shatter mes needs, and it is more unforgiving towards mistakes.

You’re confusing high skill cap and hard to play.

Something being hard to play (has a high skill floor) doesn’t automatically mean it has a high skill cap. The 2 concepts are entirely unrelated.

Anton.1769:

Nettle.9025:

You need better reflexes and skill usage awareness than a shatter mes needs, and it is more unforgiving towards mistakes.

reflexes?? for what?? 50% of time enemie in stun. You have good deffence from staff and Chaos line. You don’t need be in close fight like shatter mesmer.

… Have… you.. really played a lockdown mesmer?

Nettle.9025:

A 20/20/30 is kind of a hybrid shatter/lockdown and plays pretty similarly. I think they are fairly equivalent.

A pure lockdown (in my opinion) of 30/x/30/x/x is more difficult to play than shatter. If you nail your interrupts you can counter probably 6 of 8 classes in this game, but if you miss anything you’re completely screwed. Lack of DE and escape mechanisms makes it a bit more unforgiving. If you are out of position you are in more trouble than you would be with a standard shatter build using blink, DE, and MI.

I would say that, yes, lockdown is the highest skillcap of Mesmer. You need better reflexes and skill usage awareness than a shatter mes needs, and it is more unforgiving towards mistakes.

I agree with you, lockdown mesmer can’t nail their interrupts because CD’s are enough long, and they don’t hurt their enemies if they don’t rupt them!

However, I think lockdown is the best gameplay I’ve ever played as mesmer! It remember me the GW1 mesmer…

Here is my lockdown build, the biggest problem is that I’ve only 2 dispells (Arcane Thievery and the Sigil of Purity) but I like to play with, principaly versus thieves, mesmer and elems!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQNAW8alknpMttpxGNcrNSY6Bx9twJ9w0s+0lKwbA-T0Ag0CnIkSJlTKjUSpsSN+YBxukjGvPA

Pyroathiest.4168:

Nettle.9025:

I would say that, yes, lockdown is the highest skillcap of Mesmer. You need better reflexes and skill usage awareness than a shatter mes needs, and it is more unforgiving towards mistakes.

You’re confusing high skill cap and hard to play.

Something being hard to play (has a high skill floor) doesn’t automatically mean it has a high skill cap. The 2 concepts are entirely unrelated.

I’m not confusing them. I genuinely believe it has a similar skill cap to shatter (for different reasons), but a higher skill floor, and so I consider it the harder build to play overall. I can admit though that I might be slightly biased because I’ve had more practice with shatter.

Well maybe highest skill cap wasn’t the right wording since there is such a disparity on what that actually means… However for me I see a straight lockdown build as the hardest mesmer build to pick up and run with…. And in keeping with pyro I think it has the highest skill floor of any mesmer build to date.

• Shatter is a mostly predictable rotation.
• Clone spammer builds dodge iduelist dodge again don’t shatter and pray they are dumb enough to kill your clones…
• PU builds that’s like beating a dead horse….
• Phantasm builds as a mesmer player I think that phantasm builds are the lowest risk highest reward mesmer build there is.

Nettle.9025:

Pyroathiest.4168:

Nettle.9025:

I would say that, yes, lockdown is the highest skillcap of Mesmer. You need better reflexes and skill usage awareness than a shatter mes needs, and it is more unforgiving towards mistakes.

You’re confusing high skill cap and hard to play.

Something being hard to play (has a high skill floor) doesn’t automatically mean it has a high skill cap. The 2 concepts are entirely unrelated.

I’m not confusing them. I genuinely believe it has a similar skill cap to shatter (for different reasons), but a higher skill floor, and so I consider it the harder build to play overall. I can admit though that I might be slightly biased because I’ve had more practice with shatter.

While that may be true, your post was either simply unclear or intentionally misleading. Your wording directly conflated hard to play with high skill cap.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Anton.1769:

Nettle.9025:

You need better reflexes and skill usage awareness than a shatter mes needs, and it is more unforgiving towards mistakes.

reflexes?? for what?? 50% of time enemie in stun. You have good deffence from staff and Chaos line. You don’t need be in close fight like shatter mesmer.

… Have… you.. really played a lockdown mesmer?

… Have… you.. really played a shatter mesmer?

Anton.1769:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Anton.1769:

Nettle.9025:

You need better reflexes and skill usage awareness than a shatter mes needs, and it is more unforgiving towards mistakes.

reflexes?? for what?? 50% of time enemie in stun. You have good deffence from staff and Chaos line. You don’t need be in close fight like shatter mesmer.

… Have… you.. really played a lockdown mesmer?

… Have… you.. really played a shatter mesmer?

Yeah I have, extensively.

You just said “lockdown Mesmer doesn’t require reflexes. You don’t need to be in a close fight like shatter Mesmer.” Both of which are pretty untrue from what I’ve seen.
That’s like me saying…

“All you do with shatter Mesmer is spam clones iLeap+blurred and mash F1”

What kind of pure lockdown build did you run? And were you talking beyond 1v1s? How did you handle people focusing you?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Anton.1769:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Anton.1769:

Nettle.9025:

You need better reflexes and skill usage awareness than a shatter mes needs, and it is more unforgiving towards mistakes.

reflexes?? for what?? 50% of time enemie in stun. You have good deffence from staff and Chaos line. You don’t need be in close fight like shatter mesmer.

… Have… you.. really played a lockdown mesmer?

… Have… you.. really played a shatter mesmer?

Yeah I have, extensively.

You just said “lockdown Mesmer doesn’t require reflexes. You don’t need to be in a close fight like shatter Mesmer.” Both of which are pretty untrue from what I’ve seen.
That’s like me saying…

“All you do with shatter Mesmer is spam clones iLeap+blurred and mash F1”

What kind of pure lockdown build did you run? And were you talking beyond 1v1s? How did you handle people focusing you?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJAWRlknpBt1oxMNcrNiYSRw5bkeYap2pVSBudhA-ToAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFN+Y9B
not always 1×1, I used it in soloque

Chaos Archangel.5071:

“All you do with shatter Mesmer is spam clones iLeap+blurred and mash F1”

And few seconds later you are alone near angry warrior
To maximize your shatter damage you must be near enemie. In lcd build it’s not requireded

Anton.1769:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

“All you do with shatter Mesmer is spam clones iLeap+blurred and mash F1”

And few seconds later you are alone near angry warrior
To maximize your shatter damage you must be near enemie. In lcd build it’s not requireded

I don’t really see the difference in what you’re saying. Are you trying to say that since our interrupts are capable at range that it puts you in no danger to use them? If so I would have to argue that you’re quite mistaken. What do you plan on killing these people with after you interrupt, GS autoattack? That’s an easy way to ensure the fight lasts too long, and you run out of reliable interrupts with your opponent at half health maybe.

jportell.2197:

• Shatter is a mostly predictable rotation.

If you’re playing shatter right, it shouldn’t come down to rotation, but when it suits you. Yes rotations are easy to predict and dodge, however, if you’re doing it right you shouldn’t just be going through your rotations. IMO that’s what separates the good from the amazing.

But I don’t think it’s really fair to call something “Highest skill cap/floor.” Each play style requires different approaches. If you’re going for a successful stun/lockdown build, you require a secondary party for DPS to be truly effective. Shatter on the other hand is more if a self sufficient nuking machine. One is support, the other is dps. With that in mind, you can’t really say one is more difficult than the other, because like Pybro said, each play style basically has infinite levels of unreachable skill. Yes, even PU(disgusting, should die, burn, gross, ewww, yuck).

I do believe Lockdown is the highest skill cap build and the hardest to play. I took a long break from GW2 to focus on school and now that I have that under control I have started playing again. Coming I had to start with a PU build to get reacquainted, then moved to shatter and have been experimenting since to build back up my reflex’s and skill. Soon I will change to the 20/20/30 Lockdown build to get back into that whole play style. Interrupts by definition require good timing, dazing however can be chained in quite a , I guess, un-skillful way. But that doesn’t really provide an effective build, to truly be good you have to know the tells of ALL enemies spells and interrupt them just right, since some of the cast times fall as low as 1 second. Not to mention I helped skcamow test an early version of a lockdown build and it was one of the hardest things to do as a very experienced Mesmer, Lockdown is not easy in any sense of the word.