Guild Wars 2

Curious about your guys take on the buffed MtD (Illusions XIII) trait?

@Pyroathiest: From our few duels last night, I get the feeling that the Maim build you were running could be really strong. As you said, you weren’t exactly playing it properly against me (adjusting to a new build does take time) and even still I had to really stay on my toes to avoid getting melted by conditions.

The Good
It’s deceptively damaging. I didn’t expect my HP to melt as fast as it does. I feel this could be really strong against other condi-weak classes such as Engineers.

It looks like to make the build work you have to be really tight on the timing, shattering hard after nailing Scepter Block, but 5 stacks of torment is rough to deal with when you HAVE to stay moving else risk being shattered on.

The Bad
Even as a Mesmer (low HP) and even with only one form of Condi removal (Null Field) I was able to avoid a large part of your damage through kiting and staying on my toes. While I admit in a hectic teamfight, one good shatter would’ve eaten me alive (assuming I had no one to cleanse) but I see what you mean about the actual DPS being dependent on your opponent. Too much confusion? Stealth. Torment? Cleanse or Blurred+Distortion.

I feel even with the buff the build would struggle against classes like Warrior/Ele/Necro/Guardian who have rapid cleanses. Granted, I don’t know how other condi mesmer (PU or otherwise) deal with that either.

Overall I feel like there is definite potential in the trait, and it actually seems Grandmaster-worthy now, but without knowing what makes most condi builds successful, I can only give my impressions on what it felt like to fight one.

I can cream most opponents with it, or keep them on their toes. Only had trouble with one bunker ranger (of all things). I run a 0, 4, 4, 0, 6 build, scepter/pistol + staff, running condi cleanse mantra, blink, and MoD.

• In almost all 1v1’s it’ll lead to a win.
• I don’t suffer thieves the way I would with a power shatter build.
• I can take on multiple opponents with it leading to downs.
• It’s most strongest in a group fight where, while the enemy is tied up with so much going on, landing an AoE condi shatter will catch them out and down them en’mass.

It’s strong. It has it’s weak moments vs select encounters, but I can’t deny it’s strength so much of the time.

(I even got PM’s asking me after the build).

I had similar experience with Ross in WvW, except I often ran into multiple ele with cleansing water or healway guard. Guess its just my luck lol.

Personally I’d say Maim adds variety to our builds.

I’ve been looking around for a while now for something other than the traditional 4/4/0/0/6 Shatter, 4/4/6 Interrupt, and 0/4/6/4/0 PU. Sure you can play around with traits here and there, but all of them have DE, and a relatively set playstyle. Lately for me its been a 6/2/0/0/6 power shatter (P.S that Shatterlock build you mentioned is interesting, I’ll definitely be trying it out later).

A similar condi option I saw the other day was a 0/0/2/6/6, with Restorative Illu, and Maim. The mes used Sc/T and Staff with a Settlers Amulet of all things. At first it didn’t seem like much for damage besides Malicious Sorcery, just trying to survive and remove condis. But when he landed shatter combos and covered the torment with random burning, chill, poison… I watched warriors and eles just melt. This build is clearly timing based since any mass cleanse or dodges set you back and the settlers should probably be switched out, but its an example of something fresh for mesmers.

Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing a PU Shatter or even Condi Interrupt in the future with this trait, a mixed Sinister shatter build maybe? (though iPersona is still amazing)

I think the trait has potential, it does insane damage when shatters land and can be covered by staff condis. We have to survive longer to see it pay off, but condi typically has more survivability than power. The Chaos and Inspiration trees that help us live longer also don’t feel as useless since we can get 10% Toughness to condi or Malicious Sorcery.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that it works very well with our usual x/4/x/x/6 and without needing the 4 in dom.

I played a bit with 0/6/0/2/6, 3x mantra, Menders Purity and Dire gear. Staff/sc+torch with sigil of corruption. I didn’t have problems with anyone, except a necro at start but then i got hang of it, it was a bit empty though but it works really nice. 22 stacks is my record so far. I fought a warrior and an ele easily. Not much to stop with though, except SoD, so they ran.

I’ll just note that I’ve been back on shatter and I’ve only hit one Condi shatter in PvP so far. Admittedly they were either new to the build or just bad but I quickly learned that with no Condi clears all I had to do to win was dodge and otherwise not move. Torment was laughable in a 1v1 even as a full glass. I killed them multiple times before the teamed up with a thief.. then I was screwed because theif…

Afterthought

If sinister armor ever makes it into.spvp I may need to worry but for now I’m not concerned.

Back when I tried these type of builds I found that nightmare runes and the fear from them could really force that torment to hurt mid fight.

It’s not bad, I actually like it a bit. Torment+Confusion combo is quite strong so long as you can get through your opponent’s condi cleanse. Had surprisingly good results with Lich Runes too.

jenzie.4083:

I played a bit with 0/6/0/2/6, 3x mantra, Menders Purity and Dire gear. Staff/sc+torch with sigil of corruption. I didn’t have problems with anyone, except a necro at start but then i got hang of it, it was a bit empty though but it works really nice. 22 stacks is my record so far. I fought a warrior and an ele easily. Not much to stop with though, except SoD, so they ran.

I think your take on MtD (06026) is probably more well-rounded than the more popular 04046 variation. 3x Heal Mantra with Menders Purity for condi cleanse, it frees up 1 utility slot for Mirror Images, which I have been experimenting a lot lately.
MI can be key to make MtD build work as condi burst shatter.
My usual combo is: Scepter Block + MI + CoF Shatter.

No one is running Vigorous Revelation (Vigor on shatter) over Malicious Sorcery (Scepter)?? Sure the extra condi damage is nice, but I tend to stick to staff most of the time with IE clones, and Vigor really helps keep your clone count high after shatters.

It benefits your group too.

So far I have been very impressed with how fast I have been able to melt people. It is so satisfying to put 15+ stacks of torment on someone. It definitely is insanely strong in 1v1s and literally hard counters any melee spec. I can beat any cele d/d ele, engi, bunker war, and even most s/d thieves without breaking a sweat. I went into a duel room for a couple hours with this and the only class I lost to was a condi necro (go figure).

However, I have been getting some disagreement from other mesmers on how viable this actually will be, but I believe in the current cele meta we are in that this spec will be a solid hard counter to the meta if played correctly. No class except bunker/med guard and necro can live through my damage and since NA meta loves eles and engis as well as 1v1s/2v2s I basically get free wins

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

So far I have been very impressed with how fast I have been able to melt people. It is so satisfying to put 15+ stacks of torment on someone. It definitely is insanely strong in 1v1s and literally hard counters any melee spec. I can beat any cele d/d ele, engi, bunker war, and even most s/d thieves without breaking a sweat. I went into a duel room for a couple hours with this and the only class I lost to was a condi necro (go figure).

However, I have been getting some disagreement from other mesmers on how viable this actually will be, but I believe in the current cele meta we are in that this spec will be a solid hard counter to the meta if played correctly. No class except bunker/med guard and necro can live through my damage and since NA meta loves eles and engis as well as 1v1s/2v2s I basically get free wins

It’s play to win baby, and if the meta wants to stay the same we’ll be out on top

I kinda like it Aeol, I just posted a short vid of some wvw fights and duels, I think its a nice change of pace. The damage is also super sneaky

I’m loving my 0/4/0/4/6 build with Null/Feedback every 32 seconds. The scepter 2 every 6 seconds is so NASTY so RUDE!

hi guys
i love to test builds and can say i tested the mtd long before the patch and harder after it came
i can say my life now is much easier and even can fill a part in a group (even zerg – average aoe condi dmg 1k dps to 3-5 enemies and control the periphery better than before)

builds i tested:

basic condi – 0,4,2,2,6 – not much condi cleanse but need to kill fast and time your dodges right – it has it all. clone cover condition when die and when shatter more condition. with 8-10 torment most my enemies died along side 10 confusion stacks
this build using more the scepter/torch than staff .
more suitable to any circumstances – so far my favorite

0,6,0,2,6 – more condi interrupter with pistol and signent and F3 (in wvw using perplexity so basic 10 stacks of torment , 15 stacks of confusion).
more suitable to team support and taking the enemy ele supporter

4,4,0,0,6 – didnt feel right to me in the hand of conditions and not power

0,4,4,0,6 – more IE staff which alone can stack 20 bleeds (so no need to cry over torment )

0,4,0,4,6 – sure you get more #2 scepter time but who needs it if your enemy already cover with 10 stacks and going to die. good versus s/d thieves and more 1v1

2,4,2,0,6 – need mantra to cleanse and add cripple condi to cover your stacks – good against ele as it gives the most condi covers as clones dies

0,0,6,2,6 – pu torment (yes yes had to try it out) – the stealth give to the chance to create more clones to shatter and Mi when shatter is very nice.
didnt like the pu before and dont need it now

all in all the mtd is now great GM strait. you cant shatter like the power ones and have to bait your enemy while your armor is average 2600 and health also .
ppl can run away from you like the pu so if they smart and know they are low on cleanse thats what they will do.
in 1vX the mesmer have better chances 30% to win as condi (not like 5% as before)
in group fight finally better condi support (need to learn some tricks to land full 5 clones shatter before they died )
still condi builds will give you harder time like ranger and necro. engi not much as before as confusions kills them as they need to spam

Anyone have a shatter build with sinister stats for wvw? I’d love to play some hybrid shatter.

zapv.8051:

Anyone have a shatter build with sinister stats for wvw? I’d love to play some hybrid shatter.

i once tried this out (so with sinister you will have more condi less crit chance)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraRl0npItdqxMNcrNSqBh6x8miSyEEgS2huB-TVyCABNqEEgTAANq/80+DpoH4inAgcaCo4QAUlyPSBAzcA-w

with shatter and might on weapon swap you will have around 10 stacks of might

but you squishy like zerk shatter but your dmg – omg
just dont get hit by surprised

Can’t do much on that zapv because build editor hasn’t updated sinister stats in it. You can mimic sinister with rampager a bit.

I feel that it is good, but due to the natural loss of IP it has some serious downsides which are further exaggerated by the expected overreliance on conditions. It adds much needed variety to shatter, but now it struggles with the overall issues conditions have compared to direct damage.

So, I’m new to Mesmer theorycrafting. I’ve been working too much to play but I would like to have a build to just plug in and play when I get the chance. So does this look OK ?

keenlam.4753:

My usual combo is: Scepter Block + MI + CoF Shatter.

Yes, I use MI too, it’s awesome for keeping the stacks up. I use it for my second burst in stealth from torch #4, MI, Dodge, F2, switch to staff (hydromancy) , Dodge, phase retreat, Dodge (if possible) , F3.

Ross Biddle.2367:

I can cream most opponents with it, or keep them on their toes. Only had trouble with one bunker ranger (of all things). I run a 0, 4, 4, 0, 6 build, scepter/pistol + staff, running condi cleanse mantra, blink, and MoD.

• In almost all 1v1’s it’ll lead to a win.
• I don’t suffer thieves the way I would with a power shatter build.
• I can take on multiple opponents with it leading to downs.
• It’s most strongest in a group fight where, while the enemy is tied up with so much going on, landing an AoE condi shatter will catch them out and down them en’mass.

It’s strong. It has it’s weak moments vs select encounters, but I can’t deny it’s strength so much of the time.

(I even got PM’s asking me after the build).

I’d love to nab that build!

messiah.1908:

hi guys
i love to test builds and can say i tested the mtd long before the patch and harder after it came
i can say my life now is much easier and even can fill a part in a group (even zerg – average aoe condi dmg 1k dps to 3-5 enemies and control the periphery better than before)

If I could grab your 0/6/0/2/6 and 0/4/4/0/6 builds that’d be great! =D

As I’ve said in a couple of other places, I think it’s pretty strong and definitely makes for a viable alternative to IP as a GM trait. It is a “build enabling” GM trait now, making Condie Shatter a pretty viable build concept for the first time IMO.

As Chaos said, I think it also takes a while to adapt to a new build. While Power Shatter is a firmly implanted meta that is unlikely to be affected much by the MtD change, Condie Shatter now has a very different kind of playstyle. It’s similar to P-Shatter, but hardly the same. You are constantly shattering with Condie Shatter, especially if you have MI and choose Ill Invig over IE. It’s just bam bam bam…after the initial organized dump of a 3x F1 followed by a 3x F2 shatter, I end up shattering every time I get a couple of illusions up in order to keep a continual stream of Torment up.

With IE I was playing differently of course, letting the Staff Clones do their thing, but I found it often difficult to keep Clones up long enough to matter.

I too have had good success against even Eles, Guardians, and Warriors despite all their cleanses. They just can’t keep up.

I’ve also played 4/4/0/0/6 hybrid Cele, and it was pretty fun but more difficult due to being squishier. With Pack Runes and SoD I had over 1700 Power and over 900 Condie damage base. There were times where it was very impressive, dealing 1.7k per clone on a 3 clone shatter, plus the 6 stacks of Torment. That’s with about 9 or so stacks of Might, so it gets even better with more. The downside was it was a lot more like P-Shatter in that Thieves and focus-fire just really hurt badly, and against competent opponents the trade-off of getting 6 stacks of Torment wasn’t worth the loss of the instant DD from P-Shatter. It was fun and probably someone can make it work much better then myself, but it has several weaknesses with mobility, lack of condie cleanse, etc. that make it not quite viable IMHO.

In short though, I like MtD now and consider it a solid GM trait. Condie Shatter is a good alternative to P-Shatter in sPvP at least, being easier to play/survive for newer players and casual players. That’s IMO it’s niche. It’s effective, but if you’re a Mesmer god, you’re still better off with P-Shatter or perhaps some of the other meta builds.

BurrTheKing.8571:

So, I’m new to Mesmer theorycrafting. I’ve been working too much to play but I would like to have a build to just plug in and play when I get the chance. So does this look OK ?

I prefer Far-reaching manipulation over Retaliatory Shield. It’s the best get-away / chase tool we have imo.
Haven’t looked through the whole build but that caught my eye.

jenzie.4083:

BurrTheKing.8571:

So, I’m new to Mesmer theorycrafting. I’ve been working too much to play but I would like to have a build to just plug in and play when I get the chance. So does this look OK ?

I prefer Far-reaching manipulation over Retaliatory Shield. It’s the best get-away / chase tool we have imo.
Haven’t looked through the whole build but that caught my eye.

Well, the idea behind that is that you have the block on scepter in addition to the Aegis on Chaos Storm. Combine that with your other Retal sources like iMage and you could have a pretty huge up time. I like to just kill my foes so that I don’t need to run away…well that sounds creepy as hell.

BurrTheKing.8571:

jenzie.4083:

BurrTheKing.8571:

So, I’m new to Mesmer theorycrafting. I’ve been working too much to play but I would like to have a build to just plug in and play when I get the chance. So does this look OK ?

I prefer Far-reaching manipulation over Retaliatory Shield. It’s the best get-away / chase tool we have imo.
Haven’t looked through the whole build but that caught my eye.

Well, the idea behind that is that you have the block on scepter in addition to the Aegis on Chaos Storm. Combine that with your other Retal sources like iMage and you could have a pretty huge up time. I like to just kill my foes so that I don’t need to run away…well that sounds creepy as hell.

Thing is far reaching manips allows you to get to spots on any spvp map that a 900 range wont do. Positioning is more important then the boons your trading for imo.

Nazer.7301:

BurrTheKing.8571:

jenzie.4083:

BurrTheKing.8571:

So, I’m new to Mesmer theorycrafting. I’ve been working too much to play but I would like to have a build to just plug in and play when I get the chance. So does this look OK ?

I prefer Far-reaching manipulation over Retaliatory Shield. It’s the best get-away / chase tool we have imo.
Haven’t looked through the whole build but that caught my eye.

Well, the idea behind that is that you have the block on scepter in addition to the Aegis on Chaos Storm. Combine that with your other Retal sources like iMage and you could have a pretty huge up time. I like to just kill my foes so that I don’t need to run away…well that sounds creepy as hell.

Thing is far reaching manips allows you to get to spots on any spvp map that a 900 range wont do. Positioning is more important then the boons your trading for imo.

I much prefer far reaching, but then again I have also been running full rabid and prefer not to get hit at all so retal has limited usage here, esp since the power stat of rabid is non existent.

Windwalker.7421:

-snip- I’ve also played 4/4/0/0/6 hybrid Cele, and it was pretty fun but more difficult due to being squishier. -snip-

I have been messing around with Cele hybrid shatter as well, so far I seem to be liking 06026 and 04406 .. both of which I have been taking energy/battle doom/battle and strength runes. Every fight has a consistent 9 might at the very least, and it can get quite high throughout due to constant shattering. 2-2.2k power 900-1.1k condi dmg with 39% crit chance and 200% crit damage is actually pretty awesome, if shatter moments happen to come around while you have fury from staff autos it hurts even worse. Only downside is like you said, its a bit of a trade off, you are nearly as squishy as a p-shatter and you do far far less ‘insta’ damage as one… so you might as well just cut your losses and go full zerk. It’s a fun change of pace none the less

I decided to spend more time testing this, and I tried a celestial version with 26006 making use of signet traits, and that also worked surprisingly effective. At the moment I’m not happy with the burst potential though so I believe in a MtD build rabid 06026 or 04406 is the way to go. Not sure I’m going to drop my 44006 yet though because the Maim builds, for me, are far too situational. I’ve fought a fair few with my 44006 build taking decoy, blink and portal and I’ve beaten them through kiting them. It seems that the conditions are easily avoided and with no cleanse you can still beat this build. But we’ll see I guess.

So far, I’ve been beating a good amount of people[including thieves] in PvP with this.

Great condi-cleanse, not squishy, good stealth, steady barrage of shatters, and a usable amount of power.

I forget one of the traits, though…

LiebnirGWAccount.5698:

Ross Biddle.2367:

I can cream most opponents with it, or keep them on their toes. Only had trouble with one bunker ranger (of all things). I run a 0, 4, 4, 0, 6 build, scepter/pistol + staff, running condi cleanse mantra, blink, and MoD.

• In almost all 1v1’s it’ll lead to a win.
• I don’t suffer thieves the way I would with a power shatter build.
• I can take on multiple opponents with it leading to downs.
• It’s most strongest in a group fight where, while the enemy is tied up with so much going on, landing an AoE condi shatter will catch them out and down them en’mass.

It’s strong. It has it’s weak moments vs select encounters, but I can’t deny it’s strength so much of the time.

(I even got PM’s asking me after the build).

I’d love to nab that build!

messiah.1908:

hi guys
i love to test builds and can say i tested the mtd long before the patch and harder after it came
i can say my life now is much easier and even can fill a part in a group (even zerg – average aoe condi dmg 1k dps to 3-5 enemies and control the periphery better than before)

If I could grab your 0/6/0/2/6 and 0/4/4/0/6 builds that’d be great! =D

This
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraWlknpItlpxGNcrNCuBZyJECU/jocySGgfB-TJRHwAw2fIZZABnCAAPBAA

But this could be a fun albeit powerful alternative
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraWlknpItlpxGNcrNCuBZyJ0AU/jocySGgfB-TJRHwAC3fIZZABnCAAPBAA

For WvW do you guys think torment runes are necessary?

MSFone.3026:

For WvW do you guys think torment runes are necessary?

For condi I think perplexity is more powerful,

Ross Biddle.2367:

LiebnirGWAccount.5698:

Ross Biddle.2367:

I can cream most opponents with it, or keep them on their toes. Only had trouble with one bunker ranger (of all things). I run a 0, 4, 4, 0, 6 build, scepter/pistol + staff, running condi cleanse mantra, blink, and MoD.

• In almost all 1v1’s it’ll lead to a win.
• I don’t suffer thieves the way I would with a power shatter build.
• I can take on multiple opponents with it leading to downs.
• It’s most strongest in a group fight where, while the enemy is tied up with so much going on, landing an AoE condi shatter will catch them out and down them en’mass.

It’s strong. It has it’s weak moments vs select encounters, but I can’t deny it’s strength so much of the time.

(I even got PM’s asking me after the build).

I’d love to nab that build!

messiah.1908:

hi guys
i love to test builds and can say i tested the mtd long before the patch and harder after it came
i can say my life now is much easier and even can fill a part in a group (even zerg – average aoe condi dmg 1k dps to 3-5 enemies and control the periphery better than before)

If I could grab your 0/6/0/2/6 and 0/4/4/0/6 builds that’d be great! =D

This
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraWlknpItlpxGNcrNCuBZyJECU/jocySGgfB-TJRHwAw2fIZZABnCAAPBAA

But this could be a fun albeit powerful alternative
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraWlknpItlpxGNcrNCuBZyJ0AU/jocySGgfB-TJRHwAC3fIZZABnCAAPBAA

I’ll be sure to test these out, thank you very much!

What sort of armour/weapons go with these? (For WvW!)

Ross Biddle.2367:

MSFone.3026:

For WvW do you guys think torment runes are necessary?

For condi I think perplexity is more powerful,

perplexity is way, way stronger. perplex is still a bit broken, check out my vid I posted the other day, granted most of them had no idea how confusion works, still the amount that perplex + cry + diversion can put out is pretty high

i love you all. this is a great discussion. i feel that change was a good step in the right direction. thank you devs for listening and making that call. from time i do play shatter condi with confusion and focus on +condi duration.
certainly i feel the “melt” being done but never really felt the “burst” from condi, the same goes for me when playing PU, a fight where who can outlast who’s +condi duriation
with MtD, i feel like focusing on just straight +condi stat gave it the “burst” we mesmers felt missing and away from the +condi duration metas. truely this change promotes build diversity. condi shatter 6/6/0/0/2 and for MtD i went 0/4/4/0/6 and it played well
for me, i’m starting to get a feeling of ying and yang in the condi shatter builds, but line that seperates black from white hasn’t swirled into each other in harmonious figure yet (Compounding Celerity/Chaotic Revival/Retaliatory Demise). okay…starting to talk weird…back into the cage i go. monsieur madame mademoiselle take care mesmer forum.

MSFone.3026:

For WvW do you guys think torment runes are necessary?

for roaming or small group go with perplexity as you can stack 15 confusion fast if you go with pistol
if you go with torch you gonna enjoy only the 3 stacks comes from the rune and rarely the +5 with interrupt

with group i go with torment as it provide +2 aoe and longer duration of torment with food its 85% duration so even warrior and guardian with -60% are feeling it
also with good shatter on group and mantra heal you can stack 6-8 torment stacks aoe which is nice (also dont forget necros use aoe torment so both of you can stack nicely

LiebnirGWAccount.5698:

Ross Biddle.2367:

LiebnirGWAccount.5698:

Ross Biddle.2367:

I can cream most opponents with it, or keep them on their toes. Only had trouble with one bunker ranger (of all things). I run a 0, 4, 4, 0, 6 build, scepter/pistol + staff, running condi cleanse mantra, blink, and MoD.

• In almost all 1v1’s it’ll lead to a win.
• I don’t suffer thieves the way I would with a power shatter build.
• I can take on multiple opponents with it leading to downs.
• It’s most strongest in a group fight where, while the enemy is tied up with so much going on, landing an AoE condi shatter will catch them out and down them en’mass.

It’s strong. It has it’s weak moments vs select encounters, but I can’t deny it’s strength so much of the time.

(I even got PM’s asking me after the build).

I’d love to nab that build!

messiah.1908:

hi guys
i love to test builds and can say i tested the mtd long before the patch and harder after it came
i can say my life now is much easier and even can fill a part in a group (even zerg – average aoe condi dmg 1k dps to 3-5 enemies and control the periphery better than before)

If I could grab your 0/6/0/2/6 and 0/4/4/0/6 builds that’d be great! =D

This
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraWlknpItlpxGNcrNCuBZyJECU/jocySGgfB-TJRHwAw2fIZZABnCAAPBAA

But this could be a fun albeit powerful alternative
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraWlknpItlpxGNcrNCuBZyJ0AU/jocySGgfB-TJRHwAC3fIZZABnCAAPBAA

I’ll be sure to test these out, thank you very much!

What sort of armour/weapons go with these? (For WvW!)

Most typical setup for condi mes is full rabid. Don’t need a lot of hp’s as a mes, loads of toughness so you can sustain against power bursts and the like, and the precision adds to bonus bleeds from clone crits. Makes your condi dps stronger.

However you can also go Dire for ultra survivability, either full dire weapons/armor/trinkets or a mix of dire armor, rabid weapons, dire/rabid trinkets to get whatever balance of crit chance/armor/health you want. Your phantasms can still maintain good crit chance with phantasmal fury if you decide to drop your precision for dire. It’s all about what you prefer.

I have a question. When using the trait mtd when you shatter (f4) does the illusions being shattered apply torment?

denis.9487:

I have a question. When using the trait mtd when you shatter (f4) does the illusions being shattered apply torment?

Yes, but you must remember that if you shatter f4, clones don’t approach target, they die on the spot

Ty phent makes sense didn’t see it apply the torment but was out of range of the illusions.

While MtD builds may be viable, I see absolutely no reason to pick them over standart zerk shatter.
Firstly, MtD build uses the same trait pattern (mandatory 4 in dueling, 6 in illusions) offering no extra utility over zerk shatter.
Secondly, condition-based weapon sets like scepter and staff lack “clone delivery” skills, like Mirror Blade (GS) or iLeap (Sw). This creates a situation when your clones should walk to your enemy through all aoe circles and cleaves, and it’s very hard to predict the outcome of your shatter.
And as a last note – zerk just kills stuff much faster.

Mendax.9506:

While MtD builds may be viable, I see absolutely no reason to pick them over standart zerk shatter.

I pretty much play WvW exclusively, and from that standpoint, MtD is pretty nice. While the points in your post are true, there are definitely upsides to MtD imo.

1. You’re not glass. It’s nice if a thief gets the jump on you and you don’t get one-shot.

2. The rest of the WvW playerbase hasn’t caught up yet. With covering conditions and condi-duration food, a condi-shatter’s burst is really nasty (11-13 stacks of 11sec torment, add another 5 stacks for 14+secs if you land the scepter block). Plus, with classes that roam and run (warriors, thieves, rangers) – when they notice they’re in trouble and run, they only make things worse for themselves. It’s actually way easier to kill those classes with a condi-shatter build over a regular shatter build.

So, from a WvW perspective (and a roaming playstyle like mine), condi-shatter has a few pluses that make it significantly better than zerk shatter. :-)

I’ve found for WvW a build mixing MtD/balthazar runes to work quite well.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7fl0npRtFqxMNcrNitBdyacCUPkjsySGghB-TVSHABVs/AG6AMS5XBXAgCV/BNNDC8QAA4IAElSQSBAz0I-w

Because of food buffs and giver’s weapons it can achieve 2 second burning on staff bounces. I opted for Vigorous shatters over the scepter trait because it stays in staff most of the time.

Im playing my build like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAW7dlknpRtdqxMNcrNSpBh6ykmmSyA8gSOiyB-TlyCwAAuAA4U/JluBsK9Eu/wkHAAlDCgkjAQWlBjVCSKAYmDA-w

With a Guardian friend for roaming in WvW and its realy strong.
The Guard give me a ton of Condition removal and Swiftness.

For Duall roaming i feel its way stronger then the general IP Shatter mesmer.

for me mtd is better against fast moving or pressing skills classes like all power builds
rangers, dd ele, warrior, engi
guardian can soak it up longer and necro also

thief still pain in the arss if you dont catch them first with torment

for me power shatter can still win against condi mtd

but in group play i think mtd can be better or even equal to power shatter which is good

I don’t get the notion of being better in group play though, power shatter is also group damage. Also it is not uncommon to have an ele opponent with cleansing water around in group fight. Am I missing something? :L

In my experience so far, Maim Builds against Power Shatter are about equal in value. This isn’t saying they have the same bursty damage, though Maim has the potential to do so, but more so that it’s balanced between them.

For Power Shatters, it may seem like you’re doing more damage, with the crits and fire/air sigils and whatnot. However, using a Maim build opens up your options a lot. For instance, where power shatter requires both power and precision to be strong and viable, condi shatter only needs that one stat to be damaging, which allows you to maybe focus a little out of the immediate damage at hand and go into survivability, maybe not be immediately stabbed to death by a passing thief or eaten up by conditions.

I haven’t done any tpvp, so I can’t really gauge how amazing it is. I will say that I’ve been dominating yolo q, and really upsetting a lot of people with the 12+ stacks of torment on them.

Dondagora and I dueled some the other night. He was using torch, which is GREAT for dueling and survivability as well when traited. I’m currently using pistol with traited glamours for the constant confusion/bleed pressure as well as torment.

Basically, call the paramedics, because we’ve been maiming players for days now.

In this meta, MtD will be always inferior than power(tpvp). Power shatter has incredible synergy with thief. Spike dmg and utility is our role in the party, and for that power is better.