Guild Wars 2

(lets ignore the bug for now.. I’m just referring to the traits interaction with the scepter)

So I’ve been playing around with Malicious Sorcery in this new project I’m working on, and it feels… Good?

Not quite.

To be honest, it feels like how Scepter should be on average. The 15% increase helps make the weapon feel less clunky and awkward without adding all that much of a damage boost. In fact, it honestly doesn’t feel Grandmaster-worthy at all. It isn’t much better than Temporal Curtain or Duelists Discipline and Sword’s trait seems to offer a more significant damage boost.

So if this isn’t meant to improve all of our skills attack rate, then the trait doesn’t deserve a GM slot. Thoughts?

Combined with the Blinding Dis. trait, Ineptitude gives you more confusion, blind, and burst chance, especially if you are playing full condi. I love the name of Malicious Sorcery, and scepter is my favourite Mesmer weapon, but it is neither a gm trait, nor a useful one for my taste. I wish it was a good one though.

Agreed 100%.

Even when it was broken and I was desiring a fix, it always felt odd to be competing with Ineptitude and MoF…both build-defining traits in many ways.
Compare MS to Imagined Burden, for example. IB transforms the GS in serious ways, and that’s 5 whole skills affected. And IB is even considered a little underpowered!

Or compare to a more direct example, the Longbow and Shortbow traits for Rangers.
10% attack speed, 20% recharge, arrows pierce. The piercing was a trait all its own, before, and I knew many rangers who thought it was easily worth taking back then.

Saying Malicious sorcery is worthy of a GM slot as just a scepter trait is like saying that 5% attack speed on 3 skills is equal to 10% attack speed on 2 skills, and aoe attacks on 5 skills. Just not true.

One of four things needs to be true for this to be possibly worth the slot:
1. Scepter AA needs to be stronger than longbow AA (currently not even close to equal).
2. Attack speed bonus needs to apply to all skills, even utility skills (currently true, unverified if this is intended).
3. Malicious Sorcery needs to have an extra effect (obviously not currently true).
4. Malicious Sorcery needs to be in an adept slot (obviously not currently true).

Personally, given there’s a solid case to be made that this is intended functionality, I think we should figure out if applying to all skills makes the trait worth the slot, and is not overpowered. If we can make that case to Anet, we have good enough grounds to suggest they “pretend” (assuming it really was an accident) that it’s working as intended. They won’t have to make any changes, we won’t have to feel suck about the trait, nobody in PVP is whining because they get to see MS mesmers instead of Ineptitude mesmers, everyone is happy.

I would add something else more, obviously something that increases damage condition, for example:

1) Torment damage condition increased to 25%.

or

2) Confusion damage condition increased to 25%.

or

3) Clones (only clones scepter) and scepter skill attacks (only that) inflicts confucion in your enemies (33% probability) (5s).

or

4) “Malicia”. Gain a stacking Malice effect when you or one of your illusions (only clones scepter) strike with a scepter.

Effect of Malice: Increases by 1% damage confusion and torment (stack 10 = increases 10% damage condition of confusion and torment, only that and in combat).

In conclusion, to be a grand master trait, it should be something.

“Malicious Sorcery”

Increases attack speed while wielding a scepter (15%). Gain a stacking Malice effect when you or one of your illusions (only clones scepter) strike with a scepter. Reduces recharge on scepter skills (20%).

Do you think the idea, there goes the thing.

Are people seriously asking condi mesmer to be buffed?

HandsomeGentleman.9576:

Are people seriously asking condi mesmer to be buffed?

Seeing as condie Mesmer is rather weak in every situation outside of a duel or solo roaming in wvw…yes, obviously. Let me guess though, you’re probably going to make a passionate rebuttal argument about how overpowered condie Mesmer is because you can’t beat it in a duel on your ‘insert non-dueling build here’.

While I like the fact that it currently affects all skills, I must say it feels out of place and I would rather have a (stronger) buff of scepter in the traits. I think Angel de Lyssa’s suggestion is fine although I would have gone with a simpler “increase condition damage by 15 (or 20) per stack” instead of just confusion and torment.

Scepter skills inflict a random condition when used. In addition to current trait.
Poison 3s.
Bleed 5s.
Blind 3s.
Burn 2s.
Cripple 3s.
Weakness 3s.

Then finally mesmers might get some covering conditions.

Also forgot to say I agree with everything said by Chaos and Pyro’s “friendly” post.

apharma.3741:

Scepter skills inflict a random condition when used. In addition to current trait.
Poison 3s.
Bleed 5s.
Blind 3s.
Burn 2s.
Cripple 3s.
Weakness 3s.

Then finally mesmers might get some covering conditions.

Also forgot to say I agree with everything said by Chaos and Pyro’s “friendly” post.

I also like that it adds some non-pvp conditions into the mix, which is positive for the condi mesmer’s usefulness in pve. Mesmer needs some pve dps love in general, but since I prefer condi, I’d like to see that love come to condi first :o

Also another option

“Sorcery Malicious”

Clones (only clones scepter) and scepter skill attacks (only that) inflicts confusion in your enemies (33% probability) (5s). Reduces recharge on scepter skills (20%).

*Considering the permanence of 15% speed attack of scepter, not included with a trait grandmaster.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

So if this isn’t meant to improve all of our skills attack rate, then the trait doesn’t deserve a GM slot. Thoughts?

I tried it last night in sPvP and it was nothing special, I agree it is definitely not GM worthy.

imo
it really depands on your play style and role
in pvp if you like to play on the point shattering all over than ineptitude is much better with blind and confusion stacking
if you like to come from the side and burst ppl than speed attack is more useful as with #3 scepter every 9 sec is better than 12 sec and block every 6 sec

regarding stomp speed – 15% still not much significant as with stability and blind its pretty much safe stomp. unless there is a bunker guard who will ress regardless

I think they should add confusion in AA 3-scepter, and put any something more in the grandmaster trait “Malicious Sorcery” as increase the confusion damage or torment.

Fay.2357:

HandsomeGentleman.9576:

Are people seriously asking condi mesmer to be buffed?

Seeing as condie Mesmer is rather weak in every situation outside of a duel or solo roaming in wvw…yes, obviously. Let me guess though, you’re probably going to make a passionate rebuttal argument about how overpowered condie Mesmer is because you can’t beat it in a duel on your ‘insert non-dueling build here’.

Honestly I don’t even think its that, I’ve seen several people who have worked themselves into such a furore over the typical power shatter burst that they honestly believe that nerfing anything on Mesmer, even if its nothing to do with that build, is fair and will help balance them.

Let’s be honest, most people simply hate dying to conditions and will always cry OPd when they didn’t bring cleanses. We’ve seen this time and time again. You can insta-gib people with direct damage, and people will complain too, but conditions give this frustrating slow death when all your cleanses are down. You don’t think “hey it’s ok, this is how condies must work to be balanced, I deserved that death because I didn’t pack enough cleanses. Fair! GG!”

No, they’d rather lament. They don’t want to give up their pew pew power builds, so they’d rather cry for the condie classes to be nerfed to oblivion. Then we can all roll Eles and be done with it. (Well after we nerf conditions on Eles that is.)

Back to OP.

I fully agree of course. With MS the Scepter is almost competitive to Sword. The AA is still weak, but almost tolerable. The #2 is still clunky and unreliable, hugely telegraphed and thus easily avoided, and doesn’t provide nearly enough defense for a blocking skill. The #3 is nice. Nuff said. They did a good job on it with the reduction of the ramp-up animation, the 6x hits, and with MS it really applies it’kittens very fast. I am seeing significant improvements in being able to last 4-5 Confusions on average, rather than 2-3 before.

I agree though, this is really just how the Scepter should be untraited. It’s still not as good as Sword is for Power builds, but heck you have no real alternative for a Condie build. Sadly. I was so looking forward to Confusing Combatants allowing Swords or even GS to be condition weapons. (But I imagine GS Clones killed CC. )

Yeah with MtD gutted, they could make MS a little more GM worthy by revisiting the concept of adding a bonus to moving damage on Torment. They had it set a bit high at 50%, but a 25% increased damage while moving for Torment would really fit this GM well and would relieve some of the heavy-handed MtD nerf.

This would provide a solid alternative to Ineptitude IMO, augmenting your Torment damage, rather than throwing out more blinds & confusion.

Windwalker.7421:

Let’s be honest, most people simply hate dying to conditions and will always cry OPd when they didn’t bring cleanses. We’ve seen this time and time again. You can insta-gib people with direct damage, and people will complain too, but conditions give this frustrating slow death when all your cleanses are down. You don’t think “hey it’s ok, this is how condies must work to be balanced, I deserved that death because I didn’t pack enough cleanses. Fair! GG!”

No, they’d rather lament. They don’t want to give up their pew pew power builds, so they’d rather cry for the condie classes to be nerfed to oblivion. Then we can all roll Eles and be done with it. (Well after we nerf conditions on Eles that is.)

Back to OP.

I fully agree of course. With MS the Scepter is almost competitive to Sword. The AA is still weak, but almost tolerable. The #2 is still clunky and unreliable, hugely telegraphed and thus easily avoided, and doesn’t provide nearly enough defense for a blocking skill. The #3 is nice. Nuff said. They did a good job on it with the reduction of the ramp-up animation, the 6x hits, and with MS it really applies it’kittens very fast. I am seeing significant improvements in being able to last 4-5 Confusions on average, rather than 2-3 before.

I agree though, this is really just how the Scepter should be untraited. It’s still not as good as Sword is for Power builds, but heck you have no real alternative for a Condie build. Sadly. I was so looking forward to Confusing Combatants allowing Swords or even GS to be condition weapons. (But I imagine GS Clones killed CC. )

Yeah with MtD gutted, they could make MS a little more GM worthy by revisiting the concept of adding a bonus to moving damage on Torment. They had it set a bit high at 50%, but a 25% increased damage while moving for Torment would really fit this GM well and would relieve some of the heavy-handed MtD nerf.

This would provide a solid alternative to Ineptitude IMO, augmenting your Torment damage, rather than throwing out more blinds & confusion.

Totally agree, It would be something like:

Malicious Sorcery

Increases attack speed (15%) and damage of torment (25%) while wielding a scepter. Reduces recharge on scepter skills.