Guild Wars 2

hello i made my first Mesmer and i want to make a mantra build have any suggestions

this is my build http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/mesmer#5|0|4150|4095|4481|4099|4514|30|1750|2205|2301|30|1760|2308|1761|10|2294|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|2|2|1|28016|28017|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

Honest suggestion for a mantra build? Don’t roll a mantra build.

Did ANet nerf Mantras recently or something?

Ramiel.4931

Honest suggestion for a mantra build? Don’t roll a mantra build.

why not i houfht it was good well so i herd

Easymode you’ve said you run one before. I’m curious if anything in what capacity (e.g. glass cannon). If you wish to keep it a secret that’s fine. Knowing the “job” is enough for me.

My biggest complaint with mantras is the trait that lets yoj cast them three times. Its very hard to think about using mantras without it. I hope in the future they change that trait toward some other benefit and just let mantras have three casts. I am no expert though, I don’t run with them often as they don’t appeal to me much.

why are there no mantras builds is it bad cause i think i can work with it

To be fair, i think mantra builds could work. It’s a challenging mind shift to play one though. The hardest part will be juggling the mantra cast to set up the next round and actually using the powers you have set up. Its a bit like walking a tightrope.

Quote Akrasia.3067
“The hardest part will be juggling the mantra cast to set up the next round "
Strongly agree, that is the part killing me. Personal opions only, I do not feel mantra benefits are great(cast, recharge by youself<i can not remember to recharge it> lol

So does anyone have any suggestion on a mantra build cause i need some advise

Actually they buffed mantras slightly on dec14 patch

“Decreased all Mantra cast times by one second.”

I haven’t tried it yet though, but I have seen people running mantra healing builds (restorative mantras in the inspiration tree) before this patch and it seemed ok. I can only assume its performance has improved now.

You may find advice hard to find on this board considering how everyone rips on them but I’m sure google can help you.

If I had a solid build for you I’d give it to you neckro.

All out glass cannon is obvious.

Maybe a condition/defensive spec using the condition on interrupt trait.

Oh maybe a spec that uses invis? That would give you opportunities to position yourself in a good place to recharge a mantra.

djtool.8372:

Easymode you’ve said you run one before. I’m curious if anything in what capacity (e.g. glass cannon).

I haven’t played GW2 in awhile (been playing ME2/3 and LoL for the past several weeks). Mantra builds do some things well and have weaknesses.

Biggest difference is that the Mantras require a separate learning curve from the rest of the class. You literally have to un-learn how to press your buttons, then re-learn how to press buttons that are Mantras.

I’ve personally ran two builds that use Mantras: (1) a standard 30/30/0/0/10 BLOWkittenUP glass cannon build and (2) a normal Shatter burst build that incorporated MoP and Distraction.

The first is fine for what it does. The second is slightly weak because I made it like 2 days after I started playing GW2, so it’s rather unrefined.

My biggest complaint with mantras is the trait that lets yoj cast them three times. Its very hard to think about using mantras without it.

That trait is only for Mantra builds where you are whole hog on the MAXDPS train.

Generally speaking, all of the Mantras are good standalone abilities for what they do. Concentration gives you 2 stun breaks. Resolve gives you 2 condition removals. Both of these have lower cooldowns than other stun breaks or condition removals. Distraction is the same.

The tradeoff for being inherently better is that they require some time outside of combat to charge up. This is a playstyle adjustment, not a “POWER” adjustment. There are some situations where this actually becomes a question of power, and that is usually in long, drawn-out fights centering on bunker builds in sPvP.

General approaches to using Mantras:

1. Do not use MoRecovery as a solo unsupported Mantra, in general. MoResolve, MoConcentration, MoDistraction are all good tools on a standalone basis. MoP can be ok as a standalone tool in a heavy power build. You can fit 4 of those into almost any build where you need some random condition removal, stun breaks, disrupts, or extra burst.

2. MoRecovery is good to combo with on-heal runes, traits, or with the Restorative Mantra trait.

3. MoPain is “OK” to combo with the RM trait. I say it is “OK” (and not great) because you use up a utility slot to do so. In most builds where you actually “HEALBOT” with RM, you’d rather pack something like Null Field or Feedback, or both, or something else. That said, the MoPain – RM synergy is inherently strong.

4. HM is good in a disrupt spam build with MoDistraction.

5. EM + HM + 4x Mantra is good for a MAXIMUM DPS build although it sacrifices a lot of flexibility.

It really depends on what type of Mantra build you want to make. Mantras are surprisingly flexible and not at all bad when you learn how to use them. The new patch made Mantras MUCH more reliable.

That said, I really don’t recommend a Mantra-only build as it isn’t very fun or as effective as it could be. You don’t have to take all 3 of your utility slots on Mantras, and its generally better to have at least one open for more flexibility. (Moves like Blink, Feedback, and others that you can pop in the middle of casting a Mantra are especially helpful)

The reason I say not to trait specifically for Mantras is that it ends up pushing you into Dueling/Domination when you might not want those stats. Mantras can make you an awesome healer or tank or give you much better survivability as a DPS. I’d say its better to come up with a type of Mes you want, and then insert the Mantras that best support your stats. (For example, the Inspiration tree allows you to remove a condition when you heal [IV] or AOE heal when you charge a Mantra [X]. If you use Mantra of Recovery, then you can remove a condition each time you pop a charge which may negate Mantra of Resolve depending on your playstyle.. Or allow you to replace it with Null Field/Phantasmal Disenchanter)

Harmonious Mantras isn’t as crucial as you think with the new patch, but still very useful. Especially for Mantra of Resolve and Mantra of Concentration. The 3 ticks of healing, stability, and ability to remove up to 6 boons is great.
Protected Mantras & Empowering Mantras may not be necessary depending on your gear/utilities. You use staff, so you can pop Chaos Armor/Phase Retreat/Distortion/Diversion while you channel to stay safe. Honestly I’ve never noticed Empowering Mantras before, and seems like it’d synergize really well with Compounding Power (Illusion: III. 3% more damage with each active clone) to make Mantra of Pain pretty damaging (especially with some more precision and Harmonious Mantras)

Mantra Mastery Is personal preference. Its useless for Mantra of Pain and even Mantra of Recovery recharge fast as is. But still a helpful trait.

If you wanna keep 30 Domination/Dueling then I think your last 10 should go into Illusions. It’ll reduce the cooldown of all your clone skills (and thus faster Phase Retreat) and allow you to add Compounding Power ontop of Empowering Mantras.

REMEMBER- Don’t just randomly charge mantras in the middle of a fight without protection. Its better to charge them with Staff. Throw down a Chaos Storm and safely charge, while in the storm make sure to Phase Retreat before it ends to get a free Chaos Armor without wasting your Staff 4. You can do all that while still channeling, and it leave you with yet another Chaos Armor to pop if you need and a free clone to pop for Diversion/Distortion.

I use a healer/support Mantra build and after hours of trial and error, its become the best build I’ve ever used. Incredibly supportive and tanky while still doing very decent damage. With it I’ve solo’d the Champion Broodmother in Orr, the vet giants and duo’d the Champion Abomination/Giant.

At the end of the day though, you’re putting in far more effort than a normal Mesmer and Mantra’s aren’t something you master quickly. If you’re willing to put the extra effort in, the rewards can be substantial.

There are a few problems with Mantra builds.

First, Mantras in general are heavily reliant on traits. Untraited Mantras are often inferior to their non-Mantra counterparts (MoRec), or simply aren’t strong enough to warrant a Utility slot (MoP, MoC).

Second, Mantra traits are all over the place and are generally Master or Grandmaster tier. A significant trait point investment is required to get Mantra traits, especially if you want more than one; and it is impossible to get them all.

The first and second problem coupled together means that any significant use of Mantras will require a hefty trait point investment that leaves very little for anything else. Since Mantras are ultimately support skills, they cannot hold up a build on their own: a Mantra-heavy build will therefore sacrifice the general performance of the build, which is counterproductive.

The third problem is that Mantras are simply a pain to use. Keeping multiple Mantras channelled is a nightmare, especially when in-combat. Plus if you don’t use up all charges of a Mantra it won’t regenerate, forcing you to discharge them, wait for their CDs and then channel them again.

While the returning of channel time to 3s helps, Mantras are still stuck in a weird position where their mechanic discourages mass use, yet they have a plethora of traits that seem to encourage slotting all Mantras.

First, Mantras in general are heavily reliant on traits. Untraited Mantras are often inferior to their non-Mantra counterparts (MoRec), or simply aren’t strong enough to warrant a Utility slot (MoP, MoC).

Untraited Mantras are superior to their counterparts. MoRec has higher heal per second throughput than any of the other heals, with the additional benefit of uninterruptable heals, at the cost of having to charge it (note: by a small margin; this margin becomes large when you trait the Mantra).

MoC is pretty solid, but gets outshined by Blink and Decoy because those two utilities are that good. Edit: On the flip side, MoC can be used 2x (or 3x) as often during the similar-ish cooldowns of the 3 abilities.

MoP is more or less the only utility that simply does damage, and it can add a pretty good edge of burst. Generally speaking, it has no counterpart, although Mirror Image comes close in some situations.

they have a plethora of traits that seem to encourage slotting all Mantras.

The only trait that encourages mass use is EM.

Even with a full 30/30 build, it’s easy enough to drop the third utility Mantra for Blink when appropriate.

Your link won’t display on my phone. I happen to like mantras. I like 30/30/0/0/10, picking up harmonious mantras and empowering mantras. Depending on trait choice you can favor clone death (deceptive evasion, crippling dissipation), shatters (precise wrack, mental torment, shattered concentration) or illusions (empowered illusions, compounding power). It works too if you trait in domination for dazes, mantra of distraction is great. For gear it works well traited for damage, but also works well with sub optimal gear. The potential +16% +9% to damage help make up for gear that’s not focused on dps. I especially like it with a tanky set I use that is toughness/vitality/power.

If you want more support you can dig into inspiration for heal on mantra. I tried that and found it worked well enough, but it wasn’t fun for me. I think I did something like 0/20/20/20/10. Vigorous revelation+deceptive evasion lets you pump out clones between casts to still do damage while channelling, and if you bring a few mantras you can spam one you recharge another.

For any mantra build to work for you you must relearn how skills work. Most skills are limited by recharge, generally mantras have short recharge but are limited by the long cast time. The key to using them during a fight is losing the idea that you’re stuck doing nothing while you cast. You can shatter, use another mantra, move, and use any of your instant casts like phase retreat. Once you learn not to stand around like a dork chanting for three seconds, mantras become strong.

After using them fora while, your non mantra skills start looking like a pain to use in comparison. Our only utilities that daze, grant stability, and do direct unconditional damage are mantras. The bang per cast, especially traited, is unmatched. The biggest weakness they have is one that’s seldom mentioned. No mantra provides a combo field or finisher. That’s often the biggest reason you would ever prefer other utilities to a mantra that does the same thing.

Mantra builds are not for the faint of heart nor those players new to the class. You have to be constantly moving and charging mantras while using currently charged mantras AT THE SAME TIME. Because instants can be cast during channels, one of the greatest strengths of mantra builds is having {VI} Protected Mantras from the Dueling trait line which gives you +250 armor while you’re channeling mantras. Adds a lot of survivability to a build that’s almost continuously channeling. The other which is almost mandatory for a mantra build is {XI} Harmonious Mantras from the Domination trait line which allows you to use each prepared Mantra THREE times (instead of two) before it goes on cooldown and needs to be channeled again to prepare it.

Don’t use {X} Restorative Mantras (Inspiration). It’s not worth the loss of either {XI} Empowered Mantras (Dueling, +4% damage for each readied mantra) or Harmonious Mantras. It simply isn’t.

I’ve tried a mantra build in sPVP a bit, but I am simply not skilled enough to use it. It’s got a high learning curve and you’ve gotta pay attention to lots of things at once: your weapon and skill cooldowns, your mantra preparation uses left, your illusions, your shatter skills & their cooldowns, your opponent’s behavior, your own health & conditions/boons, plus thinking of the overall map & strategic situation makes mantras too overwhelming to use effectively for most people. Including me. I understand the theory, but actually using it is beyond me. Way too much multi-tasking.

I’m much better at using my confusion build and simply using Glamour skills and shatters along with my Scepter/Torch to stack confusion when I play sPVP. Much simpler and more straightforward.

I was normaly running Mantra build before shatter buff. 30-30-0-0-10(compounding power). 4X4 = 16, 3×3 = 9. Grand total of + 25 % damage.

Play S/S + Scepter/S (2 block ftw)

Don’t listen to people that say it sucks, because they are just bad at it. Mesmer is not only about Shatter. I’m running full beserk with Ruby Orbs. Then people will say ‘’ lol you so noob, you glass canon will die so fast ’’. Learn to dodge, use distraction, block and blurred frenzy. If you are in trouble, switch to ranged weapon. Did you guys know you could auto-attack MoP ? Do it with Scepter/S, you don’t have the downtime between Scepter bolts anymore.

I do over 7K at the last Blurred Frenzy. If you like to play melee, actively and rogue-ish, go for mantra build. ALSO, it’s the build that makes your phantasm do the HIGHEST damage, but I would suggest people to play a more defensive spec to play phantasm damage.

Like many suggested, the +25 % dmg is making up for a tanky spec.

EasymodeX.4062:

First, Mantras in general are heavily reliant on traits. Untraited Mantras are often inferior to their non-Mantra counterparts (MoRec), or simply aren’t strong enough to warrant a Utility slot (MoP, MoC).

Untraited Mantras are superior to their counterparts. MoRec has higher heal per second throughput than any of the other heals, with the additional benefit of uninterruptable heals, at the cost of having to charge it (note: by a small margin; this margin becomes large when you trait the Mantra). The recent buff has helped, but I still wouldn’t use it over Ether Feast without traits.

MoC is pretty solid, but gets outshined by Blink and Decoy because those two utilities are that good. Edit: On the flip side, MoC can be used 2x (or 3x) as often during the similar-ish cooldowns of the 3 abilities.

MoP is more or less the only utility that simply does damage, and it can add a pretty good edge of burst. Generally speaking, it has no counterpart, although Mirror Image comes close in some situations.

they have a plethora of traits that seem to encourage slotting all Mantras.

The only trait that encourages mass use is EM.

Even with a full 30/30 build, it’s easy enough to drop the third utility Mantra for Blink when appropriate.

If we’re talking about MoRec before its nerf I would agree with you. As it is the theoretical HPS advantage is too small to warrant the additional hassle required to use it over Ether Feast.

MoC gives Stability. The problem with Stability is that it must be used before a knockdown (one of the most dangerous CCs, which Blink can reliably deal with) hits you. The short duration given by MoC almost nullifies its multicast advantage.

Notice that MoP comes under the “too weak to be worth using” rather than “weaker than counterpart” aspect.

Harmonious, Mastery, Armoured (despite it being useless) all encourage mass use, not because of their inherent mechanics but because you may need to invest a significant amount of trait points in them (especially when they’re competing with more important traits). The only reason Restorative doesn’t is because of MoP.

I run a support mantra build for pve: http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/mesmer#0|0|0|0|0|0|0|30|1764|1744|2301|15|1759|0|0|0|0|0|0|20|2319|1823|0|5|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

The main focus of that^ is the grandmaster Domination XI trait, giving mantras 3 activations, and the master Inspiration trait X for the party heal on activate. (The rest is changeable – I switch my build around a lot, but this is what I’ve done in the past.)

I also throw in condition removal on the minor Inspiration (I hate dying due to conditions). I use full cleric’s gear with undecided runes (I’m debating whether to try Superior Altruism or not – probably will.) I use sapphire earrings/amulet and ruby rings.

I personally use a greatsword with sword/focus on swap. (I don’t recall my sigils right now, but I believe one of them is bloodlust.)

My utilities are usually 2 mantras (I forget the names, the one that cures 2 conditions, and the one that grants stability), with the third utility slot being either feedback, blink, or mirror images. I change my utilities a lot though – some situations don’t require the stability mantra, for example, so I’ll swap it for something more appropriate.

I really like mantras I find this build works very well in dungeons (I have ~1000 healing power so I heal my party quite a bit per mantra activation & I can heal, condition cure, and such while disabled because mantras are instant.) Mantras require a bit more of an “active” or alert playstyle b/c you have to remember to keep them activated for use, but I enjoy them.

maragikat.3210:

I really like mantras I find this build works very well in dungeons (I have ~1000 healing power so I heal my party quite a bit per mantra activation & I can heal, condition cure, and such while disabled because mantras are instant.) Mantras require a bit more of an “active” or alert playstyle b/c you have to remember to keep them activated for use, but I enjoy them.

I may be mistaken but I thought the party heal was when you were charging the mantra, not activating it?

Sabyne.6329:

maragikat.3210:

I really like mantras I find this build works very well in dungeons (I have ~1000 healing power so I heal my party quite a bit per mantra activation & I can heal, condition cure, and such while disabled because mantras are instant.) Mantras require a bit more of an “active” or alert playstyle b/c you have to remember to keep them activated for use, but I enjoy them.

I may be mistaken but I thought the party heal was when you were charging the mantra, not activating it?

That is so.

I’m curious if you’re planning on using a Mantra build for PvP or PvE?

If you’re planning on using one for PvE I know there are weirdos out there that love Mantra builds. They’re not great for a whole lot in my opinion aside from being used to heal your team.

If you’re planning on using a Mantra build for PvP then you belong to a VERY small minority group. Mantra’s even with the reduced recharge time are still too clunky for serious PvP. Once an enemy notices you use Mantras they simply apply pressure and then stun you, daze you, knock you down while you’re trying to charge them.

0
20 – VI XII
30 – IV VII X
20 – IV X
0

Shaman Amulet
Runes of Water
Energy Sigils
Weapons – Staff and I suggest using Sceptre / Sword for the 2 blocking abilities until you get used to charging your Mantra’s up.

With this setup alone you can have 3500+ Toughness while charging a Mantra and 3200+ the rest of the time.

Summon your phantasms for Regen and Protection.
Pop your Chaos Storm and stand in it for massive boons then before it ends Phase Step out of it in order to get Chaos Armor
Pop Chaos Armor when it drops if needed

Run Mantra of Healing for an 8s CD which removes conditions from you and heals people around you.
Spam Mantra of Power for large AoE heals and bonus armor

There’s a lot more to playing this build too and many things you can do to tweak it and make it work for your play style. Like if you see you’re up against a group with heavy conditions swap a utility for your condition removal before a match starts.

Honestly though I don’t know why anybody would choose to play a Mantra build. Everything you are in this spec some other class already excels at.

There is next to no damage in this build as it is purely for support and survival. If you’re playing in a group or with others you can rely on to back you up then you will have plenty of time and can heal through nearly anything except condition spammers.

I wouldn’t touch mantras in pvp anymore since phantasm build is fairly trashy and putting it in a shatter build doesn’t seem to be very viable. Try what you want though, you might like it.

The problems with mantras are three fold:

1) there is no passive bonus outside of traits. They should act like the opposite of signets. When on recharge/channeling, they should add a passive benefit. This would add a of utility to mantras and make them a ton of fun to play. Would it be too powerful to have mantra traits give their bonus when you simply have a mantra selected as a utility skill?

2) Mantras are line of sight. Can’t tell you how many times i’ve wasted charges on this.

3) If you want to use the last charge of a mantra, you risk wasting your trait line, which is a big deal. So, you’re almost required to use 30 in Dom for 3 charges. If they made default charges at 3 (with more recharge time) , and 4 for 30 dom, you could free up mantras for actual use, allowing a Mesmer to move trait lines around. This means we could use 2 charges and sit on one to obtain any trait line benefits tied to mantras.

I honestly don’t see a point in running mantras unless you use Empowering Mantras and Harmonious Mantras. Other classes have better heals and don’t need a mesmer to help.

Restorative Mantras also heals yourself. Taking the trait with MoRec and MoP can give you significant survivability.

save me some silver. How much does it heal per charge?

Sabyne.6329:

maragikat.3210:

I really like mantras I find this build works very well in dungeons (I have ~1000 healing power so I heal my party quite a bit per mantra activation & I can heal, condition cure, and such while disabled because mantras are instant.) Mantras require a bit more of an “active” or alert playstyle b/c you have to remember to keep them activated for use, but I enjoy them.

I may be mistaken but I thought the party heal was when you were charging the mantra, not activating it?

Yes that’s correct :P I usually refer to activating as the initial casting time – charging would have been a better choice of words.

I only play PvE and WvW, but for what it’s worth…

Currently I’m trying this build:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/mesmer#2|17|4150|4095|4481|4099|4514|0|0|0|0|30|1759|1815|1761|0|0|0|0|30|2319|1823|2232|10|1775|0|0|2|2|1|28047|28044|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

Using GS/Sword+Focus because WvW pretty much mandates using Focus.

Tbh if you’re taking Mantras to provide some healing support, Harmonious Mantras kinda gets in your way because it adds another second before you can channel MoP.

With Mantras, you have to really keep in mind that once channelled, you can use them at any time. ANY time, including when you’re autoattacking, when you’re ressing someone, when you’re dodging, when you’re CCed, and perhaps most importantly when you’re channeling another Mantra. After a while you can get into a rhythm of channeling MoR, using your MoP charges during the channel, channeling MoP, using the MoR charges during the channel, then repeating 10s later.

The new Altruism runes are really nice, providing Fury (~5s duration) and 3 stacks of Might (~10s duration) whenever you channel MoR or use up one of its charges (10s cooldown).

Mender’s Purity + Mantra of Recovery goes a long way in keeping Conditions off you. Having Mantra of Resolve on top of that means they can hardly touch you, but you can get away with slotting something else most of the time if you like.

Mantra of Concentration and Mass Invisibility are great for ensuring you can get a Mantra channeled under duress. Or just to help you get away.

is there a way to decrease the casting time cause it takes way to long for me still even after the Dec. 14 update and i am thinking of using mantra for WvW and PVE and I’m going for a DPS build

Neckro.1574:

is there a way to decrease the casting time cause it takes way to long for me still even after the Dec. 14 update and i am thinking of using mantra for WvW and PVE and I’m going for a DPS build

Don’t even bother trying to do a dps build with Mantra’s.

I have seen this tried time after time and it always results in the same thing. It’s slower dps and it’s just not worth it. The only thing that is great about Mantra’s is their ability to heal your allies. It’s not even that great of a build unless you’re in a large group of people… say running around in a zerg in wvw and you have no need of any sort of reward.

Being a support class suffers from a lack of points in PvP, lack or reward in WvW since you’re not tagging any targets, and again no rewards in PvE unless you’re running in a group for a dungeon but even then if you’re not hitting targets you’re not getting drops.

To make Mantra’s effective they still need to shave off another full second on the recharge time. Double the duration of the stability. Boost the amount of healing on the self heal. Balance Mantra’s around the 2 cast use and not the 3 cast usage, since it is a grandmaster trait anyway, and this trait is counter intuitive for the only good Mantra build which you actually want fewer casts so that you can spam your Mantra of Pain faster and get to the recharge more quickly for the aoe heals.

Mantra DPS builds: Nothing effective enough that it’s worth posting – far too many alternative damage builds for mesmer that are superior in EVERY way.

I played a mantra build on release and while it was great dps with Gsword +s/p, the fact that you continuously had to recharge, usually during a fight too, was too much of a hassle. Why work extra hard just to keep up when you can play a standard build? Just to be unique? Those questions ran through my head all the time.

Casting time should be very small if traited. They should also be recharging automatically. Many, many, many times I’d have 1 charge left and had to recast just so I’d have full charges again. If its your heal mantra you are basicaly screwed if you don’t pay attention to that.