Guild Wars 2

Levetty.1279:

Going through my post history just shows you have no argument and you take forums too seriously.

But no keep trying to insult me for pointing out the truth.

The truth, or your truth? Because after reading some of your posts i’ts clearly that for you, don’t like or think it doesn’t work = bad and all good stuff doesn’t exist.

…most excited for PvP meta.

Ross Biddle.2367:

messiah.1908:

ppl thunk that chornomnacer gonna be great
but does it only bring 2 skills with shiled and probably 1-2 trait attached to it

i dont think we could spam frequenly slow movement and skills

It got the devs excited. At least they stated mes was the thing they were most excited about.

Figuring out exactly what that means though..

i can only hope so but remember they were exited also by the engi aoe moa skills for 1 sec
i only wish the mesmer will have other option than power shatter. and controll like cc and slow movement and skill and taunt will be mainly for the mesmer

if it will be 1-2 skills with icd of 25-40 sec like the guardian shield hardly will be used

and i dont want to be like viel bot

i am really exited to see how the lockdown mesmer will be as we know now power got nice buff as equal to other power professions, condition hardly changes and other class got nice ability to cleanse more with the unlock of the 25 stacks . but the uniqueness is in the lockdown and punishing and controlling movement, skills use etc

Levetty.1279:

I can’t believe what I am seeing here. All we have is shatter and interrupt, condi is still shatter, both kinds of build are useless in PvE and large scale WvW. They have gutted the class in PvE and it was never that good to begin with. 1 sec of super speed does not make a build, especially when they have removed the offensive glamour traits. Clone death builds were the closest we could get to speccing defensively and the only thing we had going for us against people constantly in stealth, now we have neither.

Maim shatter and Power shatter have both been buffed but all that means is that they still might stay on par with every other classes buffs and with the insane buffs theifs are getting they are still going to chase us out of any serious PvP.

At best Chronomancer might give us an actual control build with access to slows and such but they have already said they are tying it to shatters.

Except that Condition is not tied to shattering your illusions. If you read through the new traits you’d see that the only one tied to shattering is still MtD.

What they’re doing is incorporating other play styles into others – in this case, you can now use an interrupt based condition build but also still use an interrupt shatter build as each line offers something completely different.

There’s no question that Mesmer has a higher skill ceiling than other classes and based off of what Robert Gee has said and what they have so far in our traits is making it rewarding in the combinations we can pull off.

This class relied way too much on spam and die clones and reward that as “good gameplay” so they’re moving away from that mind set (not entirely) and moving towards active gameplay.

Essentially what we may see are more hybrid style builds where, as an example, interrupts could be a focal point of condition damage.

Then throw Chronomancer into the mix and who the hell knows what we’ll have. Nothing is finalized, we only know what they’ve shown us and there are still unanswered questions. But so far they’ve shown me that they have a solid direction for Mesmers that I and almost all of us are behind.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

It used to be a steady 12% damage mod (Heal+Stability+Cclear with Feedback being always on bar). Now it’s 10% with Fragility and extra +4’s or 8’s from time to time with HM. If we take into account the old +5% Minor (I didn’t, it was broken or unreliable iirc) it’s not a fair trade but overall the Minor on its own is already a boost, moreso for those who didn’t play Mantras but Glamours instead. I for one play Signet/Glamour and I love that +10 freebie.

Keep it comming.

Let’s do some napkin math for the new HM with a 6/6/x/x/x set up.
MoR, MoRes, MoC, Feedback, TW

[Edit2]: Yadda yadda – wrong math – yadda yadda.[/Edit2]

Important note: If slotting Menders Purity, your MoR will procc a MoRes every time it is used. This means that traited MoR alone can boost your total DPS by 8% on average. [Edit] Unless it’s only on channel but that’s not the case at the moment. But still, a free damage boost.

First of all,
Nice one on Mender’s Purity (devs indeed said they rewordked skills so skills out of traits work with traits). And as you said nobody sane will spam off-cd their mantras recklessly (unless in open world) so HM is slightly weaker.

But you messed up your numbers, it’s a 5 times stacking +4% (8sec) buff per use so an unloaded MoR (3 times in 3 seconds, because ICD on skill usage) equals 3 stacks (16%) for 5 seconds, 2 stacks (8%) for 6 seconds and one stack for 8 seconds.

A workaround for Mantras in PvE would be holding a steady 8% damage boost by unloading two charges every 8 seconds (that would hold on for 72 seconds, GG), adds a curious rotation to the 11121112112 of sword ^^. Wasting condi cleanse isn’t my thing but it can work.

One win combo is popping MoR 3 times/MoC/MoRes to stack 5 units (20% boost) while Feedbacking Lupicus’ P2 barrage. Holy molly ~

Edit : I’m even worse at math, too tired >.>

Yeah… I did a major screw up there. Whoups.

So, MoR is 4% for 2s (start, end), 8% for 2s (start, end), 12% for 3s (not 16%). It would look like this: 4% – 8% – 12% – 12% – 12% – 8% – 4%. On average, that’s a 8,6% boost for 7s. Then there will be a 8s cooldown. After that you have to recharge about 3s. 7s +11s = 18s. 7s/18s = 38,8% uptime. Which leaves you at 3.3% for MoR.

My bad. So the longitudinal damage component does indeed suck for HM.

[Edit]: However, that would mean chain traited Mantra with Menders Purity:
8% (1st) – 16% (2nd) – 16% – 16% – 16% – 8% – 8% (3rd) – 8% – 8% – 8% – 8% = 11% damage boost for 11s.

Or you could go:
8% (1st) – 16% (2nd) – 16% – 16% – 16% – 20% (3rd) – 8% – 8% – 8% – 8% = 12% for 10s.

Looking at those numbers I’m quite sure the devs will make Menders Purity only proc on Mantra recharge rather than on the heal charges of the Mantra.

People keep telling me I am wrong and only talking for myself but have yet to tell me how. How can we build outside of interrupt and shatter? How will an interrupt or burst builds help us in PvE or large scale WvW? Where are the build variety outside of shatter and interrupt? What have we got to stop thieves from keeping us out of pvp?

Many people outside of this board are coming to the same conclusions as me and its only this place (which has always been filled with people who think Mesmer was fine as its was phased out of all 3 game modes through nerfs to mesmer and buffs to other classes) that think what we are getting here matches the strength and variety the other classes are getting.

I’d just like to add that MoP is not a DPS loss compared to sword AA, even including the charging time, so you’re free to spam MoP for that 20% boost. This is as long as you have HM and don’t interrupt your AA chain.

Also, Mender’s Purity will almost certainly proc on each charge, as that is how it works now. Making it only proc on channeling will be a massive, massive nerf. However they could make Mender’s Purity unable to proc HM.

messiah.1908:

ppl thunk that chornomnacer gonna be great
but does it only bring 2 skills with shiled and probably 1-2 trait attached to it

i dont think we could spam frequenly slow movement and skills

the chronomancer (or whatever it’ll be) has a whole new traitline…

Made another spreadsheet based on the one posted on Reddit, with added cooldowns and a breakdown of traits.

Includes a very basic build editor, but you need to make a copy to be able to use the editor (if anyone knows how to fix that, let me know).

Levetty.1279:

People keep telling me I am wrong and only talking for myself but have yet to tell me how. How can we build outside of interrupt and shatter? How will an interrupt or burst builds help us in PvE or large scale WvW? Where are the build variety outside of shatter and interrupt? What have we got to stop thieves from keeping us out of pvp?

Many people outside of this board are coming to the same conclusions as me and its only this place (which has always been filled with people who think Mesmer was fine as its was phased out of all 3 game modes through nerfs to mesmer and buffs to other classes) that think what we are getting here matches the strength and variety the other classes are getting.

- In open world PvE any build can work. Even condi builds are quite good for soloing mobs. In big events single player performance doesn’t matter at all, just grab a GS and autoattack. Our biggest weakness, OOC speed, will be fixed, with baseline 1200 blink and the signet granting speed permanently.

- In dungeons, we suffer not because bad builds, but because our mechanics being very bursty with low sustained damage. Even though, we already have a build that is included in meta builds rotations. That build will receive buffs here and there. The problem might be other meta professions getting much more buffs.

- For large scale WvW power shatter is already able to bring 4-7k of AoE bursts. With the changes, bursts will be buffed while also providing some support. Interrupt builds could be quite good, if we count all AoE interrupt buffs we will get and stability changes.

- For roaming, we will be pretty much kings there, with the OP MtD build and a lockdown shatter that may be a really thread in small scale fights.

- For general pvp most of builds are viable if the player is good enough.
The only place were mesmers will have a hard time will be top pvp. But even here our viability is not so determinated by our builds, but more of the mechanics of the game mode, like illusions don’t liking small places with lots of blind spots; thief mechanics taking advantage of mesmer mechanics, so fixing it needs more that doing good or bad builds.

Basically, the places where we suffer is more due to mesmer mechanic issues than underpowered builds. To be good there some things should be buffed in a way they would be overpowered outside those places.
The only way I see to solve this is to bring new mechanics for mesmer so it performs well there.Buffing interrupts is a way to do that.

PD: All of this is without counting Chronomancer, which we don’t know how it will change mesmer.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

For newcommers, regarding new trait system (aviable before HoT) :

Did they give any idea as to how far in advance of HoT or when we can expect this new trait system to go live in game?

They did not, but stay tuned HoT-wise, one Elite Specialisation gets a blogpost next week! ! please be mesmer

Miku Lawrence.6329:

They did not, but stay tuned HoT-wise, one Elite Specialisation gets a blogpost next week! ! please be mesmer

Dont get your hopes up.. we have bin disappointed to many times.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

They did not, but stay tuned HoT-wise, one Elite Specialisation gets a blogpost next week! ! please be mesmer

specializations were explained with ele as example so it’s likely to be ele i guess

IF confusion got a tick (which is likely because of the tooltips of our traits saying “x damage on skill use, y damage”) it seems to have the same damage value as bleeding.

Easy maths: (Per second damage)
Sharper Images (Bleeding)
130/5.25=24.76
Confusing Combatants(Confusion)
78/3.25=24
Mistrust (Confusion x2)
(312/2)/6.25=24,96
Blinding Befuddlement(Confusion x2)
(208/2)/4,25=24,471

I think of Harmonious Mantras as an really terrible trait in the way you have to play in order to utilize it. To waste your utility skills and deeply restrict your playstyle just for some <12% per cent dmg if you try to optimize it? Doesn’t sound like a good deal to me.

I therefore would like to see it removed. As this trait was used mostly in PvE it should be replaced by something that makes up for this. Because mesmers are mostly welcomed because of their ultilies and reflect, I would suggest to move Warden’s Feedback there and add about 25% reflect dmg to ALL of the mesmer skills that reflect. Considering the mesmers damage modifiers compared to those of the guardian I don’t think that would be much to high.
This also solves the problem for PvE mesmers that they would have to trade much damage in order to drop one traitline so that they can take Inspiration which contains nothing else that suits the berserker meta.

Evasive Mirror could then be moved to Inspiration so that it can be combined with Blade Training and so presents another defensive option for reflect instead of Warden’s Feedback.

Maybe a wekaer form of Harmonious Mantras could be fashioned as a Master trait (just remove the damage?) in Duelling to complete the line.

Anyone feel like ((Sum of All Fear)) doesn’t belong to master trait illusions? 1 torment stack when having 5 confusion stacks (5s CD). Compare to malicious sorcery (50% extra torment damage on moving foes) its like a no brainer.

They can at least make it associate with the name like causing fear when 5 stacks of torment is applied.

I think the new trait’s are gonna be great for pvp shatter / interrupt stuff. I really enjoy reading all these changes and the baseline things too.

But for PvE mes, there are almost no good traits there unless interrupting enemies becomes viable and confusion deals actual damage to them.

Except for dueling all other traitlines have NO GOOD PVE GRANDMASTER trait, wich sux.

IF conditions get a higher stack cap it could become a thing in PvE.
I could really imagine some glassy conditionbased builds using rampager gear.
The thing is that we alone were able to stack bleeding over 25, with confusing combatants it’d be possible to stack confusion as high as well. Now that combined with a reflecting warden may become really powerful. (for reflect we need ferocity though >.<)

Well the way conditions work (no damage mod, vuln not applying, ramp up time) there is more to fix than a stack cap.

My take down on Master of Frags and Illusions line :

• “((Your shatter skills are improved))”
• We can see in video that MW is on a 12 second CD (15% baseline + 15% from Shattered Strength)
• MW is applying Confusion and Might because of Illusion minors “Illusionnary retribution” and “Shattered Strength”.
• The mesmer has 24k HP

Conclusion :

• We had a 11 & 1/2 second recharge with 6 in Illusions, the rework is a 1/2 second nerf. As of today, a 12 second MW equals to 5 in Illusions (-25% recharge). I hope this is just number stuff.
• He is using a Sentinel amulet (Vit/Pow/Tough) that got boosted to reflect the trait stat loss.
• 1185 Damage on third illusion equals to a Sentinel amulet with boosted stats (+70,8333 power in PvP, if 50 power gives +36 to tooltip, the 51 increase equals 70 power).

Tl;dr :

• Instead of -30% recharge we get -25%
• The stat compensation from traits is +70 to each stat in a sPvP Amulet (except Celestial that gets reworked, source PvP subforum)
• Master of Frags does nothing?
• Sentinel is the kitten

Miku Lawrence.6329:

[/snip]

• Master of Frags does nothing?
  [/snip]

As far as I know it just combines the traits “Precise Wrack” “Confusing Cry” “Imbued Diversion” and “Masterful Reflection”

^^Just as Me Games Ma says, the picture of Dulfy’s doesn’t do well to represent Master of Fragmentation’s capabilities, as they described in the stream that “improved” means all the previous specific-shatter traits from the Illusion line wrapped in one package.

I’m not as enthusiastic as most of you about the changes. The mesmer looses its (arguably) two strongest grandmaster traits, Illusionary Persona and Triumphant Distortion.
Both allow interesting tactical options and I don’t see any proper compensation for them. The versatility of IP is well known, its absolute standard in PvP, but also very useful in PvE and WvW, so this is a huge loss. But also the latter trait is excellent in PvE and WvW and has proven valuable in the new Stonghold gamemode as well.

Furthermore, I agree with Neijala Ceya regarding Harmonious Mantras, wasting your utility slots for a minor dmg boost (not even pure dmg, just ferocity) sounds suboptimal to me, but even more ridiculous, this trait now competes against Deceptive Evasion, so in my eyes this is the death of mantra based builds.

I have hopes for the Master of Fragmentation trait; as Miku Lawrence pointed out, this does nothing at the moment, I interpret that as “work in progress”.

Jaden.1420:

I’m not as enthusiastic as most of you about the changes. The mesmer looses its (arguably) two strongest grandmaster traits, Illusionary Persona and Triumphant Distortion.
Both allow interesting tactical options and I don’t see any proper compensation for them. The versatility of IP is well known, its absolute standard in PvP, but also very useful in PvE and WvW, so this is a huge loss. But also the latter trait is excellent in PvE and WvW and has proven valuable in the new Stonghold gamemode as well.

Furthermore, I agree with Neijala Ceya regarding Harmonious Mantras, wasting your utility slots for a minor dmg boost (not even pure dmg, just ferocity) sounds suboptimal to me, but even more ridiculous, this trait now competes against Deceptive Evasion, so in my eyes this is the death of mantra based builds.

I have hopes for the Master of Fragmentation trait; as Miku Lawrence pointed out, this does nothing at the moment, I interpret that as “work in progress”.

See, that’s why we’re enthusiastic: Illusionary Persona is baseline, meaning it’s now a built-in mechanic of mesmer. Triumphant Distortion… well, half of it is gone. We still get phantasm distortion in Inspiration minor trait. It was interesting, though, and a shame though it is sadly not one of our most important GM’s. I’d like to see something like it in the future, or possibly fixed back into the the new trait changes, but I’m won’t feel deprived by its loss much.

Me Games Ma.8426:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

[/snip]

• Master of Frags does nothing?
  [/snip]

As far as I know it just combines the traits “Precise Wrack” “Confusing Cry” “Imbued Diversion” and “Masterful Reflection”

Oh, nice.

But still we’re missing 5% of shatter recharge ! è_é

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Me Games Ma.8426:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

[/snip]

• Master of Frags does nothing?
  [/snip]

As far as I know it just combines the traits “Precise Wrack” “Confusing Cry” “Imbued Diversion” and “Masterful Reflection”

Oh, nice.

But still we’re missing 5% of shatter recharge ! è_é

More than enough price to pay for the baseline addition of IP.

Took me a few days to digest all the changes and get a picture of the whole thing.
These are the changes I would make:

• Illusion of Vulnerability: buff to 6 stacks of Vulnerability on interrupt
• Rending Shatter: buff to 3 stacks per clone
• Dazzling: nerf to 4 stacks of Vulnerability per daze
• Desperate Decoy: scrap it, if we really need a survival trait there, I’d rather have access to more Distortion
• Do something interesting with the Sword trait, for example reduced cooldown by 5% when landing Mind Spike and 2% each time a Phantasmal Swordsman hits. Should be a decent buff to PVE DPS while not being overly OP in PVP/WvW. Increased stats would be nice as well. Or even something like they did for Warriors, +50 precision for each sword you wield.
• Rework and merge Metaphysical Rejuvenation and Illusionary Membrane so that they give Chaos Armor at 75% health instead
• In the vacant Minor trait you can put something like: Protective Illusions – Grants protection for 3s every time you summon a phantasm. 5s ICD.
• Mirror of Anguish: really feels underpowered for a Master trait. Make it stronger and more “chaotic” by removing the ICD and making it a chance (say, 30%) on every control effect received.
• Chaotic Transference is not fun. Since we’re talking Chaos here, let’s have a trait so that every time we apply a damaging condition we have a chance to also apply blind, cripple, chill, weakness or slow and every time we apply a non-damaging condition we have a chance to also apply bleeding, poison, burning or torment. With a small ICD, like 3 or 5 seconds. That would help us get access to a variety of conditions so it would be harder to cleanse all our damage instead of relying on sigils or random procs from Chaos Storm.
• Bountiful Disillusionment. It’s bad. My take on this: every time a clone dies or is shattered, you and your party gain a random boon. This would provide ample access to a variety of boons and would be in line with the randomness of the other traits in the same tier.
• Medic’s Feedback: I always tought this was one of the most useless traits we had, but if you guys are trying to salvage it, it might have some uses that I never envisioned. The 10% buff on revive speed is nice, but the cooldown is huge…
• Vigorous Revelation and Restorative Illusions: I’d merge these two and make the healing part AoE as well.
• Phantasmal Healing: I’d make the healing bonus a % for outgoing heals (say 4% per Illusion), so it works better with mantras (unless you changed how healing scales with Mender’s Purity/Restorative mantras)
• Compounding Celerity: doesn’t really feel like a Master trait, I would say merge it with Illusionary Defence in Chaos and make space for something more supportive/phantasm oriented. Empowering Phantasms: each phantasm grants N stacks of Might for 10s every 10s to nearby allies. (I’d say N=3 feels like a good contribution but not OP for a Master trait)
• Temporal Enchanter: what’s the point in making Portal last one second more? Or Veil? In my redesign I had 3 suggestions for glamour traits: Powerful Enchantments – Null Field strips 2 boons and cleanses 2 conditions per pulse. Veil Stealth duration increased to 4 seconds. Portal charges increased to 30. Feedback lasts 30% more. Reliable Glamours – Veil grants 3 stacks of Stability for 3s. Null Field and Feedback pulse 1 stack of Stability each second. Going through an active Portal grants 5 stacks of Stability for 5s (10s ICD). Restorative Glamours – Veil grants Regen for 8s. Null Field and Feedback pulse healing X per second. Going through an active Portal restores 30% of max health (10s ICD).
• Sum of All Fears: feels really underwhelming for a master trait, although we have some new sources of confusion and only playing would give an idea of how strong it can be.
• Blinding Befuddlement: merge the old Confusing Enchantments in it and get rid of that ICD and you can call it a proper Grand Master.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Me Games Ma.8426:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

[/snip]

• Master of Frags does nothing?
  [/snip]

As far as I know it just combines the traits “Precise Wrack” “Confusing Cry” “Imbued Diversion” and “Masterful Reflection”

Oh, nice.

But still we’re missing 5% of shatter recharge ! è_é

Don’t take everything on that stream too seriously.
I do not think they will nerf bleeding and torment dmg (which was obviously a thing in that stream).

ATM bleed does 45 base dmg per second; the bleed in the traits deals ~25dmg per second. They are doing a BETA because of that. I guess it’ll be alright.

Edit: Aaaand what skcamow said.

Menaka.5092:

Temporal Enchanter: what’s the point in making Portal last one second more? Or Veil? In my redesign I had 3 suggestions for glamour traits: Powerful Enchantments – Null Field strips 2 boons and cleanses 2 conditions per pulse. Veil Stealth duration increased to 4 seconds. Portal charges increased to 30. Feedback lasts 30% more. Reliable Glamours – Veil grants 3 stacks of Stability for 3s. Null Field and Feedback pulse 1 stack of Stability each second. Going through an active Portal grants 5 stacks of Stability for 5s (10s ICD). Restorative Glamours – Veil grants Regen for 8s. Null Field and Feedback pulse healing X per second. Going through an active Portal restores 30% of max health (10s ICD).

I like your suggestions for Glamours. But how could you dare not thinking about TW?

Xaylin.1860:

Menaka.5092:

Temporal Enchanter: what’s the point in making Portal last one second more? Or Veil? In my redesign I had 3 suggestions for glamour traits: Powerful Enchantments – Null Field strips 2 boons and cleanses 2 conditions per pulse. Veil Stealth duration increased to 4 seconds. Portal charges increased to 30. Feedback lasts 30% more. Reliable Glamours – Veil grants 3 stacks of Stability for 3s. Null Field and Feedback pulse 1 stack of Stability each second. Going through an active Portal grants 5 stacks of Stability for 5s (10s ICD). Restorative Glamours – Veil grants Regen for 8s. Null Field and Feedback pulse healing X per second. Going through an active Portal restores 30% of max health (10s ICD).

I like your suggestions for Glamours. But how could you dare not thinking about TW?

When I originally wrote the trait, I didn’t know TW was going to be a glamour :P
I would scale it to affect 10 people with Powerful Enchantments, in Reliable Glamours and Restorative Glamours it could probably have the same effect as Null Field (Stability or some healing per pulse).

Menaka.5092:

• Bountiful Disillusionment. It’s bad. My take on this: every time a clone dies or is shattered, you and your party gain a random boon. This would provide ample access to a variety of boons and would be in line with the randomness of the other traits in the same tier.

They also added 5s of Stability to each shatter. This trait is very strong if that holds.

I’m personally really looking forward to all these changes, but then maybe that’s because I’ve Mained MTD shatter since it became a thing, although I can see a lot of people turning to it now, and I kind of liked that it wasn’t that common of a build before xD!

While it sounds like we are going to be very strong once again, if you take into account all the stuff other proffesions are also reciving, it would seem we are simply being put on par with everybody else, like recieving better condition application, while other proffesions are recieving better tools to deal with conditions..

We are just gonna have to wait and see how it fares, and once again explore new builds that can deal with the new builds we will be seeing from other proffesions

alanis.6094:

Menaka.5092:

• Bountiful Disillusionment. It’s bad. My take on this: every time a clone dies or is shattered, you and your party gain a random boon. This would provide ample access to a variety of boons and would be in line with the randomness of the other traits in the same tier.

They also added 5s of Stability to each shatter. This trait is very strong if that holds.

For group WvW, I can only think of some rare cases when trading my Mind Wrack for 1 stack of Stability (that isn’t even shared with the party) would help. And you’re giving up CI for it…