Guild Wars 2

Hello guys.

Sooooo, you know that class that you want to do once you see the available classes of a MMO? Ok, that happened to me with mesmer. Ok, grab this information.

Anyways, I know staff is a defensive weapon and such. It’s my favorite mesmer weapon, and it was the weapon that I had in mind when making a mesmer (put that information here). I’m currently running a Lvl 80 mesmer and I really wanted a staff build that involves DPS, for PvE and WvW. I wanted something that could keep up with greatsword mesmers power (I hate them).

Thanks. (:

I feel like every mesmer goes through the same progression, where they they start off loving the staff but eventually realize that it offers the least utility for WvW and sPvP (except for shatter, which has a super high skill ceiling). Staff is a reactive condition weapon … but it offers almost no cc and requires that your opponent attack you. In this regard, it’s great for PU condition bunker builds, but little else.

In WvW, cc is probably the most important skill, and what staff is (mostly) missing. So while you should play however you like (especially in PvE, where many builds work fine), my advice for WvW is this: learn to love the main hand sword, followed by greatsword, pistol, torch, scepter and focus. Staff is unfortunately a bit niche in WvW.

Nuuu, I’ve seen shatter builds before, with greatsword, they can work with staff? Also, shouldn’t ANet buffs condition mesmers?

Bunda.2691:

In WvW, cc is probably the most important skill, and what staff is (mostly) missing. So while you should play however you like (especially in PvE, where many builds work fine), my advice for WvW is this: learn to love the main hand sword, followed by greatsword, pistol, torch, scepter and focus. Staff is unfortunately a bit niche in WvW.

Wrong. The vast majority of WvW condition/support builds run staff because it is a very good support weapon. The auto attack is reasonable, and it has an ethereal field which can be blasted for chaos armor, as well as a self chaos armor and a stun break (that also provides chaos armor if you use it in an ethereal field). Chaos armor is absolutely amazing.

Jorjeis.2169:

Bunda.2691:

In WvW, cc is probably the most important skill, and what staff is (mostly) missing. So while you should play however you like (especially in PvE, where many builds work fine), my advice for WvW is this: learn to love the main hand sword, followed by greatsword, pistol, torch, scepter and focus. Staff is unfortunately a bit niche in WvW.

Wrong. The vast majority of WvW condition/support builds run staff because it is a very good support weapon. The auto attack is reasonable, and it has an ethereal field which can be blasted for chaos armor, as well as a self chaos armor and a stun break (that also provides chaos armor if you use it in an ethereal field). Chaos armor is absolutely amazing.

As I said, in WvW staff is a reactive condition weapon. It provides a ton of utility, but only so long as other players spam attack you. Good players won’t do this, and staff provides zero ability to close distance or chase.

In terms of support, sure it’s fine on paper, but chaos armor looks a lot cooler than it is, and chaos storm is on a long cooldown. And in WvW, support mesmers are mostly there for glamors, pulls, and reflects; other classes are much better at healing, boon support, and condition clearing.

In WvW, you can use staff as a secondary weapon, but except for PU condition builds, it’s hard to build around it as a primary weapon.

Finally, the OP asked for a staff DPS build, and I was explaining that this paradigm doesn’t really exist in WvW. Staff just isn’t great for direct damage, but can be useful for tanky condition builds.

Bunda.2691:

Jorjeis.2169:

Bunda.2691:

In WvW, cc is probably the most important skill, and what staff is (mostly) missing. So while you should play however you like (especially in PvE, where many builds work fine), my advice for WvW is this: learn to love the main hand sword, followed by greatsword, pistol, torch, scepter and focus. Staff is unfortunately a bit niche in WvW.

Wrong. The vast majority of WvW condition/support builds run staff because it is a very good support weapon. The auto attack is reasonable, and it has an ethereal field which can be blasted for chaos armor, as well as a self chaos armor and a stun break (that also provides chaos armor if you use it in an ethereal field). Chaos armor is absolutely amazing.

As I said, in WvW staff is a reactive condition weapon. It provides a ton of utility, but only so long as other players spam attack you. Good players won’t do this, and staff provides zero ability to close distance or chase.

In terms of support, sure it’s fine on paper, but chaos armor looks a lot cooler than it is, and chaos storm is on a long cooldown. And in WvW, support mesmers are mostly there for glamors, pulls, and reflects; other classes are much better at healing, boon support, and condition clearing.

In WvW, you can use staff as a secondary weapon, but except for PU condition builds, it’s hard to build around it as a primary weapon.

Finally, the OP asked for a staff DPS build, and I was explaining that this paradigm doesn’t really exist in WvW. Staff just isn’t great for direct damage, but can be useful for tanky condition builds.

Just fyi: Mesmers have amazing boon support and healing. Its very much comparable to engi/guard/ele.

If you dont believe me, try this build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-The-Chaos-Maestro-Support-Builds/first (hint: signet of inspiration doesnt only copy your boons, but also boons you get from allies… To allies. Its amazing in groups, even if you dont generate boons yourself)

I actually believe our healling is the best, because its spammable without a cooldown. The downside is that we cant do anything else, of ourse. Not that that really matters, because we dont really have alot of aoe to contribute :/.

edit: and yea. Staff doesnt really work in pve. Pve is extreemely simple, and doesnt require as much defense or conditions that staff offers. It does work in pvp modes for shatter/phantasm/tank/lockdown/condition (and everything else I cant think of) builds, though :D

If you really want to play berserk staff, you need to get the bouncing trait (well most of staff build need to, imo). Chaos Storm does good damage if traited with Halting Strike or Bountiful Interruption (but again it’s RGN daze/interrupt). Staff is still very situational.

Then, iWarlock misses OFTEN (same as iMage) when the player/mob move and I’m not even saying fast movement, but a little strafe. If they fixed the iWarlock spell to land more often, staff will get better for berserker build.

Finally, I saw it somewhere on the mesmer forum, but you need to think Staff as a close/mid range weapon and not a long range (boucing mechanic). No wonder most of power mesmer play GS because it’s easy to land damage in comparison to Staff.

@Bunda It seems to me when you talk about WvW, you’re talking about roaming, because terms of ZvZ or GvG then chaos armor is very very good (in practice not just on paper).

For a ZvZ condition build the staff is perfectly fine as primary weapon, and does not require PU to be effective.

What means ZvZ and GvG? x.x’

Alissah.9281:

Bunda.2691:

Jorjeis.2169:

Bunda.2691:

In WvW, cc is probably the most important skill, and what staff is (mostly) missing. So while you should play however you like (especially in PvE, where many builds work fine), my advice for WvW is this: learn to love the main hand sword, followed by greatsword, pistol, torch, scepter and focus. Staff is unfortunately a bit niche in WvW.

Wrong. The vast majority of WvW condition/support builds run staff because it is a very good support weapon. The auto attack is reasonable, and it has an ethereal field which can be blasted for chaos armor, as well as a self chaos armor and a stun break (that also provides chaos armor if you use it in an ethereal field). Chaos armor is absolutely amazing.

As I said, in WvW staff is a reactive condition weapon. It provides a ton of utility, but only so long as other players spam attack you. Good players won’t do this, and staff provides zero ability to close distance or chase.

In terms of support, sure it’s fine on paper, but chaos armor looks a lot cooler than it is, and chaos storm is on a long cooldown. And in WvW, support mesmers are mostly there for glamors, pulls, and reflects; other classes are much better at healing, boon support, and condition clearing.

In WvW, you can use staff as a secondary weapon, but except for PU condition builds, it’s hard to build around it as a primary weapon.

Finally, the OP asked for a staff DPS build, and I was explaining that this paradigm doesn’t really exist in WvW. Staff just isn’t great for direct damage, but can be useful for tanky condition builds.

Just fyi: Mesmers have amazing boon support and healing. Its very much comparable to engi/guard/ele.

If you dont believe me, try this build: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-The-Chaos-Maestro-Support-Builds/first (hint: signet of inspiration doesnt only copy your boons, but also boons you get from allies… To allies. Its amazing in groups, even if you dont generate boons yourself)

I actually believe our healling is the best, because its spammable without a cooldown. The downside is that we cant do anything else, of ourse. Not that that really matters, because we dont really have alot of aoe to contribute :/.

edit: and yea. Staff doesnt really work in pve. Pve is extreemely simple, and doesnt require as much defense or conditions that staff offers. It does work in pvp modes for shatter/phantasm/tank/lockdown/condition (and everything else I cant think of) builds, though

You’re right, we do. But there is a reason not many people run restorative manta builds in WvW, at least to my knowledge. They’re clunky, you spend all your time spamming mantras and not much else, and your dps is frightfully low.

Also, since the buff to PU, you can easily use signet of inspiration & the boonstorm without staff. But how many people really use signet of inspiration in WvW, when blink, decoy, glamors, and mantras are generally more useful?

There are plenty of uses for the staff, and you can easily make it work in PvE if you enjoy using it. All I’m saying is that if you come across a power-based staff mesmer in WvW, chances are he’s dead unless he’s a really skilled shatter spec.

Anyway, this is all just my opinion. Take it as you will.

Jorjeis.2169:

@Bunda It seems to me when you talk about WvW, you’re talking about roaming, because terms of ZvZ or GvG then chaos armor is very very good (in practice not just on paper).

For a ZvZ condition build the staff is perfectly fine as primary weapon, and does not require PU to be effective.

You are totally correct. For gvg or zvz (large battles with >15 per side) staff is more useful, as is chaos armor because you are getting hit more frequently. But mostly I’ll use staff in large battles because it is less bad than our other weapons, not because of how great it is on its own.

Staff is just fine in PVE as your back up weapon. Sword/x Staff is great for maps and can work great in dungeons. its awesome in wvw too but thats a much more in depth convo. Mesmer is the type of class that should def carry all weapons on them at all times. I use Staff for bosses depending on the group im running with. If they unload a good 5-10 condis on the boss, staff 3 is hitting for a solid 8-16k and ill switch to s/s for more dps. Throw sigil of energy or battle on that bad boy and its all good. I dont use GS for anything except for high level fractals

Staff 2 hasn’t been a stunbreak for a few patches now.

Also, it can be comparable in terms of sustained DPS vs bosses when you utilize the Warlock if you’re using a power build or with conditions via 3 clones + autoattacks.

To keep up with a Greatsword DPS, it pretty much has to be a sustained fight.

PvE Staff is often not very useful. However against Bosses who are a threat like the molten bro’s it’s superior. Also if you got 1 ele, engi or necro in your team the phantasm will deal tons of damage due the conditions. You can start with 5, 2, 3, signet, 3, 4, swap in the first few sec and go melee with sword to deal tons of damage. You got 3 phantams out and 2 of them crit for 10-15k. Also the iWarlock is alotta fun against world bosses like dwayna → highest crit was 25k here <3.

With regards to WvW and PvP, I’ve been experimenting with using staff as a semi-offensive weapon. I picked a trick from Lord Helseth (who can do it infinitely better than myself) whereupon I bind a key to “About Face”, and phase retreat INTO an enemy to shatter.

This doesn’t work if you have a relatively slow internet, but in a time where any half-decent player can dodge shatters from clones, it offers a bit quicker damage, which is more difficult to respond to.

Staff is probably the best weapon a mesmer has, overall.

K U T M.4539:

Staff is probably the best weapon a mesmer has, overall.

Nope, that’s the Sword

They’re mostly all good, just depends on build/situation :p

I LOVE the Staff! (… Gawd, thats wut she said. -_-)

It’s my favorite weapon in Guild Wars hands down (even for Elementalists, Guardians & Necros) and it’s the only weapon besides Scepter and Focus that makes my Mesmer feel like an actual mage. (Though I also run Sword/Sword for life.) I’ll use it in PvE, PvP, AND WvW, but in Dungeons it falls short damage-wise.

Staff will almost never be as damaging as Greatsword, else there wouldn’t be much of a point to the GS, but that doesn’t mean staff doesn’t do much damage. In zerker gear it can actually hit pretty hard, with Chaos Storm having a chance to hit for up to 4k if each of the 6 hits crit, the auto attack traited hits for over 1k, and iWarlock hits anywhere from 4k to obscene numbers depending on how many conditions are on the enemy… but there’s a catch.

Staff performs better the closer you are to your opponent. You want both yourself AND enemies inside of Chaos Storm to get the best benefit, you have to be within 600 range for the auto attack to bounce back, granting either Might or Fury, and iWarlock has a hard time hitting enemies that are farther away, especially if they have swiftness.

Also.. the RNG (“random number generator” basically means the randomness of something, such as the loot you can get from a mob or the boons from Chaos Armor) of the weapon makes Staff a pretty big gamble. Like a slot machine, you always have a chance to either get a great or crappy benefit.

* Winds of Chaos - Good: Fury, Burning / Medium: Bleed / Bad: 1x Might, 1xVulnerability

* Chaos Armor - Good: Blind, Protection / Medium: Swiftness, Cripple / Bad: Regen, 1x Confusion

* Chaos Storm - Good: Daze, Chill, Weakness, Aegis / Medium: Poison, Swiftness / Bad: Retaliation (depending on situation)

For me, Staff is my defense, support, and control. Having Chaos Armor while standing inside of Chaos Storm makes you incredibly damage resilient, and it’s one of the best weapons -other being the focus- to take if you want to add a layer of boon support for allies (this does not mean you have to take a huge damage sacrifice).

In PvE/WvW I currently run a very weird support build that does rather good damage. It revolves around staff, allows me to share every boon in the game with allies, and can still hit like a truck due to the near-permanent 9x – 20x Might / Fury I have. I’d post it.. but it’s very specifically tailored to my playing style and I’d imagine would be rather difficult to learn how to play. It’s a variant of the “Chaos Maestro” that Alissah posted earlier and I’d be happy to share it if you’d like.

1 stack vulnerability for how long? I guess it was 5 sec? Now image the pug standard dps of 5k per member (kinda low i know but lets talk about the worst case ok? :P). This results into a 25kø dps. thats 250k over 5 sec. 1% more damage results into 1’250 additional damage. So – that silly little stack of vulnerability deals about 5 times the damage of the bleed in the same time. It’s like a DoT that deals 250 damage per sec.

So I would switch the Medium-Bad Bleed-Vulnerability thing

And no there are not allways 25 stacks vulnerability on the enemy – in general the stacks stuck at 15-20, including the normal mesmer sword attack.

Xyonon.3987:

1 stack vulnerability for how long? I guess it was 5 sec? Now image the pug standard dps of 5k per member (kinda low i know but lets talk about the worst case ok? :P). This results into a 25kø dps. thats 250k over 10 sec. 1% more damage results into 2’500 additional damage. So – that silly little stack of vulnerability deals about 5 times the damage of the bleed in the same time. It’s like a DoT that deals 250 damage per sec.

So I would switch the Medium-Bad Bleed-Vulnerability thing

And no there are not allways 25 stacks vulnerability on the enemy – in general the stacks stuck at 15-20, including the normal mesmer sword attack.

That’s assuming you’re sitting there auto-attacking though?

*edited it – plz edit your quote and quote my edit :o it’s 5 sec vulnerbility xD

Well I’m assuming I’m aaing while waiting for my swap cd and after i casted all the other stuff. What else?

While I don’t have anything definitive yet, I think some aspects of the staff make a good single target power weapon. (yes, power).

Because the phantasm gets bonuses for each condition on a target, the phantasm can hit like a truck.

Testing it against vets in frostgorge, if I drop choas storm on a target and then summon the phantasm, the phantasm frequently hits for 8k damage (the warden, in contrast hits for about 6). Of course, there’s only so long you can do that.

So, sticking to the original question by the OP…

First, PvE and WvW are entirely different beasts. Something that works in one will likely not work in the other.

PvE
Greatsword is actually rarely used in most instances for reasons that I won’t get into right now. The staff, however is a really specific use power weapon. The one useful power skill it has is the iWarlock, and it has some special mechanics. On its own, the iWarlock hits reasonably hard, but its damage scales up by 10% per unique condition on the target. In situations where your boss has more than ~6 conditions at all times, the iWarlock easily eclipses the damage of any other phantasm.

Now, that being said, the staff only becomes useful when that condition can be met, otherwise you’re better off using a standard sword/sword + pistol setup.

WvW

In WvW, the staff can be used as a power weapon in either shatter builds or tanky phantasm builds, and it works quite well in both cases. However, it only works very well in small to medium size fights as a power weapon. The larger the fight, the less effective it gets. As a condition weapon, the staff scales quite well even to large fights though.

Ok, thanks for answering, so I can go berserker staff? I thought it was a condition weapon just like scepter.

Kogam.4752:

Ok, thanks for answering, so I can go berserker staff? I thought it was a condition weapon just like scepter.

I would see it as useful for either. Pyro is probably better at explaining why but in general the staff gives you access to

Burning
Bleeding
Vulnerability
Cripple
Blind
Confusion
Chill
Poison
Weakness

All randomly (depending on skill). Only bleed, burning, confusion, and poison depend on condition damage.. More than half of these conditions are useful no matter what your build (or useless depending on viewpoint)

Staff also gives the following boons
Aegis
Retaliation
Swiftness
Protection
Regeneration
Might
Fury

Those are all independent of whether you are a condition or power build.

You can use it with zerker gear in a shatter spec. Just recognize that it excels at clone production but doesn’t do a whole lot of damage on its own, outside of shatters. Warlock hits hard, but is fairly easy to dodge, and often just misses the target.

My point is that you should first figure out how you want to play (shatter, phantasm, condition, etc.), and then choose weapons from there.

The staff (aswell the scepter) are both excellent power / zerker weapons